Somebody asked for this one for Epiphany but since I'm in California and write my
sermon on Saturday night, nobody would have seen it if I posted then.
"Three wise women would have... asked directions, arrived on time, helped deliver
the baby, cleaned the stable, made a casserole, brought practical gifts and there would be
peace on earth.
I also got a Christmas card that shows a manger scene with Mary saying "Diapers,
receiving blankets, and an infant mule seat! Now those I can use!" The caption under
the picture says "Fortunately, three wise women came by later." Ruth in CA
- Date:
- 06 Jan 2002
- Time:
- 11:55:00
Comments
On the subject of "What if the Three Wise Men had been Three Wise Women?"
I saw one that was an animated file.
It had the stuff I had already seen before....
"They would have asked directions,
Arrived on time,
helped deliver the baby,
Cleaned the stable,
brought practical gifts,
and brought a casserole."
....and then it had said,
"And on the way home they would have said,
'Did you see the sandals Mary was wearing with that gown?'
'And that baby doesn't look anything like Joseph.'
'That donkey has seen better days too.'
'I hear Joseph doesn't even have a job.'
'That little drummer boy can beat my drum anytine.'
'Want to bet on how long before you get your casserole dish back?'
'Mary, a virgin? My eye! I knew her in high school.'
crystal
Fred Craddock use to encourage us to do a fresh reading of the gospel with new eyes as
if we did not already know anything about it or already have assumptions about it. It
strikes me that there is some sort of assumption about a different status between baptizer
and baptizee, as if the one doing the baptizing is supposed to be greater or more
righteous. Is this necessarily true?
Somehow it is hard to imagine Jesus or John worried about status and yet it is hard not
to feel like that is some concern that we can't help including in the story.
Have you ever experienced a church service and felt like the pharasees were alive and
well and looking down on others as sinners through the very words of our rituals? Manzel
A really cool illustration:
Back when the telegraph was the fastest means of long-distance communication, there was
a story, perhaps apocryphal, about a young man who applied for a job as a Morse code
operator. Answering an ad in the newspaper, he went to the address that was listed. When
he arrived, he entered a large, noisy office. In the background a telegraph clacked away.
A sign on the receptionist's counter instructed job applicants to fill out a form and wait
until they were summoned to enter the inner office.
The young man completed his form and sat down with seven other waiting applicants.
After a few minutes, the young man stood up, crossed the room to the door of the inner
office, and walked right in. Naturally the other applicants perked up, wondering what was
going on. Why had this man been so bold? They muttered among themselves that they hadn't
heard any summons yet. They took more than a little satisfaction in assuming the young man
who went into the office would be reprimanded for his presumption and summarily
disqualified for the job.
Within a few minutes the young man emerged from the inner office escorted by the
interviewer, who announced to the other applicants, "Gentlemen, thank you very much
for coming, but the job has been filled by this young man."
The other applicants began grumbling to each other, and then one spoke up, "Wait a
minute--I don't understand. He was the last one to come in, and we never even got a chance
to be interviewed. Yet he got the job. That's not fair."
The employer responded, "All the time you've been sitting here, the telegraph has
been ticking out the following message in Morse code: If you understand this message, then
come right in. The job is yours.' None of you heard it or understood it. This young man
did. So the job is his."
A person’s entire livelihood, indeed their life, depends upon thier ability to
discern the meaning of these words: "You are my Child [Son], whom I love; with you I
am well pleased."
Pr. del in IA
There are several thoughts on Jesus being Baptised. 1. Jesus was marking the end of one
erra of his life and beginning his ministry.
2. Jesus identifying with those he came to save
3. That Jesus was being baptised not for his sin but our sins he would bare on the
cross.
I am in the process of writing a manuscript called the "Three Baptisms of the
Christian Faith". Baptism by the church with water which is the outward sign of our
inward cleaning. Baptism of the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit baptises us with the
blood of Jesus at Conversion. and Baptism with the holy Spitit done by Jesus. which is to
give us the power to witness and be obedient children of the Father.
Harold in Alabama
A response to Manzel's thought about an assumed difference between the baptized and the
baptizer. Here is an insight - Baptism is not something we do -it is something we claim
God does. In baptism we are claiming God's promise of love for the baptized, and we are
making our vow or promise of support and fellowship. So, the one baptizing has no elevated
status - in fact, the institutional status or office of the one baptizing is quite
meaningless, as far as God's promise is concerned. Don't we claim that any christian can
baptize a person in a crisis - as at a time of impending death? Perhaps that's what John
the baptizer learned that day at the Jordan - yes indeed, he could baptize - in God's
name, not his own. Jim in ct.
In response to the question -"Where have all of the contributors to this page
gone?"
I used to stop in here every morning and read the wrangling and debating of honest,
searching souls.
I generally stop here now once or twice a week because I have witnessed the that
conservative and the prophetic are not welcome here.
I need a liberal voice to balance my conservative tendencies and so I seek it out.
Unfortunately most of the liberals that frequent this page do not want a balanced approach
and quickly resort to name calling and the expelling the sister or brother that they can
not control.
Thus we experience a more homogeneous and less lively group of preachers contributing
here.
Any thoughts on this view?
Pastor Will in the High Mountains
Good posts already. I'm going to need some help this week, so where else to come but
other Desperate Preachers?
I'm titling my sermon "Did Jesus Need to be Baptized?" The answer, as far as
I've thought, is "no" and "yes."
"No" in the sense that he was sinless, he did not need to have his sins
washed away.
"Yes" in the sense that baptism (adult) is also our commitment to God and a
sign of our willingness to submit ourselves to God's will -- even if it means death on a
cross. Infant baptism is the parents' commitment to teach the child the way that leads to
life eternal -- submission to God's will for our lives.
I think we see baptism as "necessary" when we want our sins forgiven, but God
does that for us. Our sins are not magically forgiven when we are baptized, or confirmed.
But baptism and/or confirmation are our outward statements that we are willing to accept
God's claim on our lives.
Do you see where I'm going with this? Do you see the pitfalls of it? I don't want to
denigrate the sacrament -- it is too important. But, I don't want people to think baptism
is some sort of magic that the preacher performs, and voila! There is the need for
commitment here, too.
Any suggestions, helps?
Pr del in IA -- thanks for the illustrations, they are GRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!
RevJan
I'm interested in the discussion on the "fulfillment of righteousness," and
looked up righteousness in INTERPRETER'S DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE, Supplementary Volume.
The article is titled "Righteousness In the NT," and actually is more focused on
how Paul uses it, (according to several different theologians). Some kernels of what I
gleaned that are speaking to me have to do with (1)"the rightful power with which God
makes God's cause to triumph in a world which has fallen away...and which is yet as God's
creation, God's inviolable possession." (2) The character of righteousness as
"gift." (3) The contrast that Matthew uses "righteousness" in an
ethical sense while in Romans it's about "God's redemptive faithfulness in forgiving
sins." and (4) that "righteousness denotes a relationship established by the
pronouncement of the judgment." My conclusions, then, have to do with the
"fulfillment of righteousness" being about Jesus's baptism being part of God's
redemptive activity in the world. In my mind, it fits nicely--is very congruent--with the
Isaiah passage and the gentleness with which God seeks to establish justice in the world,
without breaking bruised reeds or quenching dimly burning wicks, but by taking us by the
hand as a covenant & light to the people.
I'm interested in others' thoughts about the fulfillment of righteousness. I'm also
intrigued by the focus someone brought on the heavens being opened, and how others are
thinking about that.
Grace and peace, Janice in Ks
I think you've hit the nail on the head, Jim in ct. Perhaps John has been so caught up
in his ranting and raving about "the one" who comes after him, that when he
turns around and sees Jesus standing before him, awaiting a dunking, John is caught off
guard. He realizes he's been so caught up in the message, that he's forgotten about the
original messenger. Now he feels his pride and arrogance laid bare, and knows he is no
more worthy than those whom he has called a "brood of vipers." In an instant he
has lost touch with is calling and anointing, and just wants to fade into the background.
But Jesus does not let him off the hook. John's calling is to baptize, but the authority
to do so, and the grace given through baptism comes from God, not John. Jesus does not
argue John's assertion that he needs Jesus' ministry, nor that Jesus is higher in
authority and righteousness. He only says, "it must be done."
If the efficacy of baptism depended on John, then he should never have presumed to have
baptized ANYONE! Let alone Jesus. But since righteousness comes from God, John was simply
the conduit through which God's affirmation of Jesus was given. If the efficacy of baptism
depends on my righteousness, there are a number of souls wandering around this planet who
are in need of a new sprinkling. But God just uses me, a cracked, leaky pot, to pour God's
love and grace on open and receptive souls. Perhaps Jesus underwent baptism for that
reason, to remind us that it is God in our actions, not our actions themselves, that do
the work. If John could minister to one "of whom I am not worthy to remove his
sandals," then you and I, and every Christian, can go out and announce the Kingdom to
our fellow sinners!
One last thing, then I'm done: My maternal grandparents came to the Lord after my mom
and aunt were full grown, a few years before my grandfather died. Many years later, as my
aunt lay on her bed, dying of cancer, Mom became very concerned that her sister had never
been baptized. She called my dad, an episcopal priest, who told her that she should
baptize Aunt Mary. "Just ask her if she loves the Lord," Dad said, "and if
she says ‘yes' then baptize her." Mom asked, Mary said "yes," and Mom
baptized her. God's grace is not confined to an office, an ordained order or to those who
somehow manage to toe a moral and theological line. God's grace flows through those who
love God and hunger to do God's will.
thanks for taking the time! Pastor Andy, Ionia NY
Two points: 1. I found two quotes in the CATENA AUREA (link to it at THE TEXT THIS
WEEK) that were enlightening concerning why Jesus came to be baptized:
Remig.: The office to be performed; "that He might be baptized of him;" not
baptism to the remission of sins, but to leave the water sanctified for those after to be
baptized.
Pseudo-Chrys.: He comes to baptism, that He who has taken upon Him human nature, may be
found to have fulfilled the whole mystery of that nature; not that He is Himself a sinner,
but He has taken on Him a nature that is sinful. And therefore though He needed not
baptism Himself, yet the carnal nature in others needed it.
I think these comments from ancient church fathers help us understand why Jesus felt
the need to be baptized.
Second: A story that Heather Elkins (Drew Theological School Faculty & a member of
our WV Annual Conference) told at a Conference Bible Study: She was leading a
ministers’ retreat in another conference. The exercise given was for the participants
to name a biblical character they most closely ID’d with. The responses were the
usual mix of biblical heroes and holy ones until one young pastor responded, “The
only name I could think of was ‘worthless,’ because that’s what my father
always called me and said of me.” And he began to weep.
Heather reports that she and the others were at a loss for what to do, until one old,
wise District Superintendent stood before the young man, put his hands on his shoulders,
and said to him, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Much more
than a cleansing from sin (which the blood of Christ has already done), Christian baptism
is our initiation into the family of God. That is another important component of a
sacrament. It tells us/reminds us who we are. And we are precious children in God’s
eyes. Ken in WV
I had lunch today with a neighboring pastor who's been in his place for about 6 years.
Membership has more than doubled from 375 to over 800; the budget has almost tripled from
from $135K per year to $375K per year; the clergy staff has gone from one (him) to four
(an associate priest plus two ordained deacons). Sunday School membership has skyrocketed
(close to 200 kids on a Sunday).
In face of this he finds himself under attack as "fiscally irresponsible"
because he wants to pay two musicians who play at their contemporary
"jazz-style" service and a part-time D.R.E. -- total amount around $6K, less
than 2% of this year's budget. What, say his detractors, should be done with this large
amount of cash? Put it in a savings account.....
I relate all this because as we were talking about his situation I flashed on something
a former spiritual director used to ask me when I would complain about the "slings
and arrows of outrageous fortune" that seem to get aimed at us clergy types. This
spiritual director (a Jesuit)would ask me, "How did 'they' treat Jesus? Should you
expect that 'they' will treat you any differently?"
As we talked more, especially about the baptisms we have planned for the coming Sunday,
it occurred to me that being baptised into the Christian life is no great thing from the
world's perspective. We are baptising these folks (in my case, one infant and two adults)
into a life promised to be filled with the same sorts of barbs my colleague is now facing.
Do your best, even show great results, and the "world" (frequently in the guise
of well-meaning church members) is going to come after you! In our discussion of the Holy
Innocents the point was made that actions of Good incite reactions by Evil. Baptism is an
act of Good; the life the baptised are called to lead is a life of such actions of Good.
"The world, the flesh, and the devil" are going to react. Oughtn't we to warn
those about to be baptised of what they are going to face?
And speaking of that ... why don't we better warn those about to be ordained????
Just some musings after an interesting, but painful, lunch with a friend....
Blessings, Eric in KS
Dear Friends....I don't contribute as much because I am so busy that sometimes my
thoughts don't even come together until Saturday..and that often is too late to
contribute. But this time, I have lots of thoughts early on.
3 days ago, the High School located 1 block from my church burned to the ground,
displacing 1100 High School Students. There are about 5 main-line churches in the
area..and although I was "on vacation", I met with the other pastors and we all
decided to reach out to the school district and indeed, our community, which is in crisis,
with an offer of support...temporary use of our buildings in any way the school could use
them.
We have a particularly active and "possessive" crew in our church that
maintains the facilities. And although I knew they might be a bit possessive, I sent out
feelers to our session who assured me that we really had no alternative but to reach
out....and offer our help to the school.
To make a long story short, it appeared as though the school would be needing the very
area of our church that the "crew" did not want to give up..in fact had told me
specifically they would not give up....the dining area and the kitchen (gasp...:)
Well, as "luck" would have it....that is what it looked like the school was
going to ask us to use. So.....pastorally, I approached the "kitchen lady" and
told her that although I knew how she felt, that I truly believed that God might be
telling all of us..that it was time to "let go"....and "let
God"....use the facility as He saw fit. She agreed, although I am sure it was the
hardest thing she EVER had to do around the church....
The school officials came in......we met with all of the pastors in town....and lo and
behold! All they wanted from us was the two rooms that the kitchen lady had already
decided was O.K. for us to offer......but they would be used by the drug and alcohol
program of the high school....
The "kitchen" lady was ecstatic that they did not want her kitchen......but
before I could get into church today to let people know what was going on... these people
were already "hiding" the crosses so they would not be stolen by this
element....(drugies and alcoholic kids)
Jesus' baptism to me.....means that He, although without sin, was willing to TOTALLY
SUBMIT HIMSELF UNTO DEATH ON A CROSS, in order to do the will of the Father.....
Then I heard a wonderful illustration via free illustrations that come to me each week
from SermonIllustrations.com....about the "unbaptized arm", a story telling how
the czar of Russia's 500 soldiers, in order to be baptized, hung on to their swords,
lifting them out of the water while the rest of their bodies were emersed. How like my
church!!!! "Lord, I will follow you if it doesen't mean giving up my kitchen...Lord I
will follow you...if it doesn't mean losing my crosses in the front hallway....Lord I will
follow you if it doesn't mean giving up a tithe, or a golf Sunday, etc...etc...."
I think my congregation needs to remember their baptism.....I think that my
congreagation needs to look out the back window and see the millions of dollars lost to
our community.....and compare that to the measly couple of hundred dollars we might
"lose" to the drug and alcohol kids....I think we all need to remember our
baptisms...and if we truly DO intend to follow Jesus, to completely give up our rights and
our claims to anything. Let God pick the rooms He needs.....and may God bless us all in
the process....
Jude in Wash
God we carry the name of your children when we call ourselves “Christian”,
but often we are not sure if we truly are your beloved. And when we are not sure of our
place within your family of love, we often find ourselves hurting others because of false
pride and lack of confidence. Instead of showing the way to the healing waters of your
Spirit when we are discouraged ourselves, we become stumbling blocks and are unable to be
signs of joy, hope and love for others. We become discouraged with our own lives and
mistakenly believe that others have it better. Forgive us when we doubt that we are indeed
your
Beloved and that our life is a gift from you. Also forgive us when we try to exclude
others from your family of loved ones. Guide us this week that we may each day remember
your love and show us how to made the best of our own lives and to become the living water
of love, hope and joy to others. AMEN
This is the prayer I wrote for our service this weeI find myself asking who is the
beloved? God called Jesus Beloved, but are we not also the Beloved Children of God? I
think we forget that sometimes.
For me knowing that I too am God's Beloved empowers me to live my life closer to the
"water". To take seriously my baptismal vows. When I know that I am loved, I am
so much more able to be all I was created to be. I think that may be true for the people
in my pews. My prayer is that the reminder that they too are God's beloved will encourage
them along their way of faith.
We also are having a baptism this Sunday. It is a young boy who lost one of his best
friends last year by drowning. He was a family member of some of my parishioners. It was a
sad and tragic event.I did not do the funeral, but the great grandparents from my
congregation (at whos summer retreat the drowning occured) were having trouble going back
to the site. I offered to do a service out there for them to "claim back the
place" For Brandon would not want his death to keep the family away. After I was
there I got the "inspired" idea to use the lake water in which Brandon died to
sprinkle on those attending reminding them of their Baptism. It was the healing ritual
that helped the family regroup and move on with their live. It was truely an ispiration
for God.
I think I have shared this here before, but it seemed to fit so well and with Brandons
friend inquiring about baptism because of Brandons death it brought it all back to me.
Ministry is a mysterious and awesome thing!! Bless all of you as you interpet the ancient
word into the contemporary word for the people of today!!
jmj in WI
TEA you said David = beloved
I think that is the point that is what God says to each of us when he claims us as his
child through our baptism
when we baptize, we give the 'Christian Name' and we call that person by name [child of
God] until they answer, and are confirmed as members of the household of faith. At birth
we give a child his/her name, and call them by that name until they realize, 'hey, that
means me!' and answer to it. Then as family we tell them what the family name means, and
try to challenge and help them to live up to that name. weldiger in wnc
I found the following story by recently deceased Dave Thomas, Wendy's founder, in
"The Entrepreneur's Library.:
"FAITH Honesty doesn't come from out of nowhere. It is a product of your moral
convictions. But what do you do when your convictions are challenged? It is faith that
gives you the strength to go on believing. Don't wear it on your sleeve; roll up both
sleeves and do something about it. When I was 11 years old, my adoptive grandmother took
me to Michigan's Gull Lake to be baptized by immersion. I really felt that I was accepted
by God when I was baptized. But what I remember most about my baptism was that my Grandma
Minnie made it happen. For her, Christianity meant more than doctrine you talked about on
Sundays. It meant working hard in a restaurant, seeing to the lodgers she rented rooms to,
tending a big garden, doing the canning, and taking care of the farm animals every
morning. And it meant teaching her grandson about faith."
This Sunday I will discuss Baptism as adoption into the family of God, being adopted
formally as a child of God. Dave worked hard at promoting adoption of children, and is
that not what we are doing as clegy, teaching about adopting people as children of God?
revup
Baptism is a an entry into the family of God. How many of my parishioners feel that
they are employees of God, able to work for God, but to go back to their own lives when a
particular job is finished. With the employee idea it is easy to work God into your
schedule. If one is truly a child of God there is no working into the schedule, it is
state of being. No escape, unable to run away. This is fearful and wonderful at the same
time.
Another thought similar is the idea of foster children. These are children that often
share the responsibilities of the family, but do not receive the benefits of truly
belonging. No one wants to be a foster child. To be adopted is to become part of the
family forever - good and bad times. Stability, roots, etc.
Ramblings from joy in the midst
