Our American sense of justice and fair play have a hard time with this story of Jesus. It isn't fair to work all day and get the same amount as the guy who worked for an hour. But who said life is fair, it isn't! How we live in relationship to God and to each other is what is truly important. Can I learn to be more generous through this parable? Can I behave differently toward other people because I heard this story this week? Am I willing to learn how we Americans take advantage of every other country for our own end and still wonder why they hate us and want to get us? "When will we ever learn, oh when will we ever learn..." to quote from the old song Where have all the Flowers Gone. How slow we are to learn God's love and generous mercy toward us over and over again. Pax, pastor in Iowa
We struggle with this passage because we struggle with the need to control. It is so hard to give up our control to God. It is hard to step out in faith to risk our trust in God. To let God be God and know that whatever the result it will be the very best for us. Who cares who makes what and how much and how long one has labored, the reward is the same...to be in the Kingdom. We measure our lives, our selves according to the standards of the world, unfortunately. God's standards are
different. God truly loves all and desires that all should be saved. Just like the workers in the vineyard we grumble as we use our own measuring stick. L in Atlanta
what strikes me every time I deal with this passage and those like it, is how we always seem to think it's "us" that are getting the short end of the stick. We always identify ourselves with those who were hired early in the morning and are upset with those who come along at the last minute. we don't seem to stop and think that much of the world sees us as the ones given way more than we deserve, that to someone who has nothing to eat, no where to sleep and yet has tremendous faith in God - we are the ones that come at the last hour and get paid well. At theological college, an African bishop joined us for a year. The first time I preached, he was upset because my homily was just ten minutes long. He said worship needed to be at least three hours and the sermon at least an hour. He suggested that in his country, if you stopped preaching at ten minutes, people would physically escort you back to the pulpit to give them more. This same man travelled from town to town for services on a bicyle and was excited about the possibility he might get a moped. he has helped me for all time to see this passage and others in a different light.
Is God too good? That seems to be Jonah's complaint. He doesn't want God's goodness to fall upon the people of Ninevah. He doesn't think they deserve it, and plus, it will make him look like a false prophet. Is God too good? According to the early workers in the vineyard, yes. Why should the latecomers get the same as them? The complaint in both lessons seems to be against God's generosity and goodness that is "unfairly" granted. Yet would we really want God to be fair? For then we would have to admit that we,too, don't deserve God's grace. No one can ever do enough to earn it. Thank goodness God is generous and giving, merciful to all who turn to God--whenever. GB in MI
SQ - I haven't read that study, but do vividly remember a similar study with monkeys. They even called it, as I recall, "the executive monkeys." The results showed that those who COULD control their environmental stimulus (their feet would be shocked within 5 seconds of a light coming on unless they pushed a bar or those who would get a banana within a certain time frame after the light came on) developed the ulcers and anxiety. Those who had no control, or whose system of shocks and bananas (both, ironically, are called "rewards" or "positive reinforcements") was unpredictable had far fewer signs of anxiety-related illnesses.
Thank you all for the great discussion this week. on the Richard Donovan excerpts, there is a suggestion whether the latecomers really are getting the better end of the stick. After all, they stood around idle all day. Better to work. Likewise, as an allegory, is a life without Christ until the last minute REALLY a better life? Is the only reason we're Christians to get a piece of pie in the sky by and by? Or do we truly love Christ with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and neighbors as ourselves?
When will we quit this ambition?
This is coming on an inter-generational celebration day for us during "Open House Month." As my 13-year-old would say, "Coolie!"
Sally in GA
MTSO Fan Here's an old youth ministry resource...
On a dangerous sea coast where shipwrecks often occur, there was once a crude little life-saving station. The building was just a hut and there was only one boat, but the few devoted members kept a constant watch over the sea, and with no thought for themselves, went out day and night tirelessly searching for the lost. Some of those who were saved and various others in the surrounding area wanted to become assocaited with the station and give of their time, money, and effort for the support of its work. New boats were bought and new crews trained. The little life saving station grew.
Some of the members of the life saving station were unhappy that the building was so crude and poorly equipped. They felt that a more comfortable place should be provided as the first refuge of those saved from the sea. They replaced the emergency cots with beds and put better furniture in the enlarged building. Now the life saving station became a popular gathering place for its members and they decorated it beautifully and furnished it exquisitely because they used it as sort of a club. Few members were now interested in going to sea on life saving missions so they hired life boat crews to do this work. The life saving motif still prevailed in this club's decoration, and there was a life boat in the room where the club initiations were held. About this time, a large ship was wrecked off the coast and the crews brought in boat loads of cold, wet, half-drowned people. They were dirty and sick and some of them had black skin and some had yellow skin. The beautiful new club was in chaos. So the property committee immediately had a shower house built outside the club where victims of shipwreck could be cleaned up before coming inside.
At the next meeting, there was a split in the club membership. Most of the members wanted to stop the club's life saving activities as being unpleasant and a hinderance to the normal social life of the club. Some members insisted on life saving as their primary purpose and pointed out they were still called a life saving station. They were voted down and told that if they wanted to save lives all all of the various kinds of people who were shipwrecked they could begin their own life saving station down the coast. They did.
As the years went by, the new station experienced the same changes that had occurred in the old. It evolved into a club and yet another life saving station was founded. History continued to repeat itself, and if you visit that coast today, you will find a number of exclusive clubs. Shipwrecks are still frequent in those waters, but most of the people drown.
REVJAW
This passage reminds me of the phrase, "it all comes down to this." Do we love Christ or are we just using Christ. If we Love Christ we do not see the "labor" as work, rather we see it as a privilege. If we are strictly salvific in our faith, then we focus on what we gain
(salvation) in relation to what we gave control / prodical living). We see giving up the latter for the former as a sacrifice and hense do get jealous of those who seemed to have cake and ate it as well.
Which position would we have rather been in during our working all day? working knowing we will receive payment and hense shelter and food, or worrying about where we might find money for the same. I dont know about others but i would rather work than worry, assuming as i said, that such discipleship is work.
Apolloguy tx
What did the long day workers get for their labors? The priveledge of having worked for a C.E.O. that actually cared more about all his workers getting a living wage than about lining his own pockets, packing his own golden parachute.
What is the benefit of working all day? Knowing from morning that supper will come.
Who else gets? The wife of the long day worker who goes to the marketplace at noon and sees her husband is working so she can afford to buy food for supper. ( Sorry for the sexism, but we are in 1st c. palestine here. )
How about the parents of the worker, rejoicing that their grandchildren will be provided for? Many live happier lives when these get in early. Shouldn't we all get in as early as possible? tom in TN(USA)
This is my first go at this. I'm one of those who try to relate the three scriptures, so I'm not sure where to put my comments.
(Exodus) Complaining is a sign of fear. They (you, we?) lived in fear and so had to complain and blame someone else. They wanted to be secure, to go back to what they were used to. I intend to apply that to us... complaining, blaming, holding onto that which has always made us secure: the past, habits, attitudes, etc. The point here is to release all that and let God provide your security,your nurture.
(Matthew) It doesn't matter when we do that... at 16 or 60... releasing all to God through the Christ provides the same rewards: freedom, security, meaning, etc.
(Phillipians) When the surrender takes place then all that really matters in life is Christ in you... not only the hope of glory (Col 1:27) but more pointedly, Christ within you.. the power of God and the wisdom of God (I Cor 1:24).
I use very few illustrations or examples, and the ones I use are normally use personal examples. It's not because I don't want to but because I can't find any.
Thanks for reading. Rev. Judith in rural Nevada
What are the advantages and disadvantages being the "first born"?
Is the view point of the first born always one of envy, how dare they get what I get, etc?
How does the first born allow something else to happen, to allow grace to enter:
Jonah angry with God of Nineveh repenting; Those in the vineyard who learned that the last ones to go to work will make the same pay!
What is really fair in our life?
Are gifts given or are they earned?
tom in ga
What's this?
Or as someone said: "When the children of Israel saw the stuff on the ground they said 'whazzit?' (manna)"
I see the three passages this week relating to our inability to comprehend God's goodness. I am serving a church that is questioning its future and arguing about its present and am trying to shepherd people toward a more faithful approach to determining their ministry now and in the future.
The theme of the service (which I place at the top of the bulletin each week) is "In Tough Times" and my sermon will be "What Is It?" From Exodus, we may not recognize the ways that God responds to our needs. From Matthew, we may not deserve what we receive from God ( and that newer Christians deserve no less.) From Paul, we may not want what we receive from God, for it might bring discomfort (suffering). However, God will respond and give us the "what is it?" that we need. And, the only way we can receive the "manna" (blessing?) that God gives is by being together in community.
Hope that the last is not too much of a stretch on the Word.
Ogremtb in PA
REVJAW, Yes I too am tackling stewardship this week. The gospel fits in very well, describing how abundant God's generosity is to all. This must be at the heart of our stewardship, right? It's only when we can recognize how richly we've been blessed (whether we've come early or late to work in the vineyard) that we will give in return from the heart. Stewardship starts with God's blessings, which result in our gratitude and thanksgiving in response. GB in MI
Thanks for the story of the Life Saving Station. I have used it
in a past parish, but could not find it since I have moved (my last parish was
just a few miles from a former Life Saving Station that closed in the 50s).
Pastor Mary (UNITED Fan)... is United still open? (just kidding)
MTSOFan... what class?
Another MTSO grad, class of 78
Pastor Mary: I'm class of 1999 (second career). MTSOfan
Sue in Cuba, KS: Thanks for that -- I've never heard that story.
I need to sit down tonight (Wed) to put my sermon together, so I can send it on
to the Powerpoint team; I'll play with that in my head a little! MTSOfan
Blacksmith: Thanks for the lifesaving station parable. We acted
that out in our contemporary service a couple of years ago. Perhaps it's time
for a reminder! It also looks like other "desperate preachers" have benefited
from your typing it out! :) MTSOfan
Aslanclan: As a "Chronicles" fan, I love and appreciate your
name! Thanks for the book reference. It's a bit too late for this coming Sunday,
but I will certainly look up "Powersurge" -- this is a long-term project for me
at my church, and the type of message I try over and over to communicate in many
ways. MTSOfan
Pastor Mary in OH: I just found your longer message; thank you.
In fact, you've hit on the heart of the problem in the church I serve. And, I
like what Sally in GA writes about it being a "control thing." You've all helped
a lot this week -- thank you very much. Time to go to press now! Best wishes,
everyone, for communicating a vital message! MTSOfan
I posted earlier but some how it didn't get on. I lived through
this parable. I worked at a marina back in the 50's. I started at 4:30a.m. and
finished when the last boat came in at dark.He hired another guy to help him
catch live bait. He came at 6:a.m. and was usually back and on his way home by
11:30a.m. we were both paid $5.00 a day. When I found out what he was getting I
hit the ceiling and quit that afternoon. What Jesus is saying is that the cost
of salvation is the same for everyone, Those who come at an early age, those who
come when in their middle years, and finally those who wait until their senior
years. The same price was paid for all at calvary.
Harold in Alabama
Harold in Alabama
My empathy for your experience! Like an earlier poster noted,
there is a difference between this parable, which symbolizes a whole lifetime in
the day's work in the vineyard, and the day-after-day-after-day work where the
inequity continues, as if one is worth more than another. In the parable, it
comes down at the end to this: All of us are of equal value to God.
Another thought: Why were these people not around at the earlier
hiring times? Had they worked elsewhere? Had they waited outside another
vineyard, hoping for work, but not been hired? Had they been tending to other
necessary duties (carrying a crippled friend to the baths)? If they didn't
really want to work, by that hour they would have given up and gone home, or
hidden when the owner came by!
It would be easy to slip into a "works" oriented message with
this parable, as the laborers "worked" in the vineyard. I will need to focus
more on the joy of being part of the community of faith, where all shall be
satisfied. "The Joy of Serving"?
Michelle
When I took speech class in college while doing my undergraduate
work, the instructor [who was quitting at the end of the semester because he had
found a better job] gave every single person in the class an "A" not only for
the final, but for the whole course! And we didn't even have to take the final!
In his words, as I recall, he did it for two reasons: 1. because he felt like
celebrating and wanted to include us in the party and 2. the more telling
reason, because he could! I was one of those "A' students who felt a little
uncomfortable with it, but then I remembered that, 1. if I had to take the final
there was a chance I would blow it and blow my final grade and 2. not having to
study for this exam would give me more time to study for the other five I had.
So I realized the grace of it. Somebody posting above asked about what the
workers would do the next day. As I recall [it was about 20 years ago :) ] I
studied harder for my other finals because I had the opportunity to do so.Thanks
all for reminding me of this experience in light of this passage. I too will be
urging my congregation to identify more with those who came in at the end of the
day and stressing that I much prefer God to be generous/gracious rather than
fair. RevRake in MI
WaynO in NE
I'm one of those PCUSA pastors-seminary and the whole bit- and I
remember what a fight it was to get the CLP program approved- I argued with a
lot of our brothers and sisters for the necessity of such a program- so hang in
there. And I am absolutely delighted to find you Here. Remember, the church
needs you.
I was thinking that this passage has applications that might even
be global. A Disciples Of Christ Pastor sent me the following
TEACHING MATH
Teaching Math in 1950: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for
$100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?
Teaching Math in 1960: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for
$100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?
Teaching Math in 1970: A logger exchanges a set "L" of lumber for
a set "M" of money. The cardinality of set "M" is 100. Each element is worth one
dollar. Make 100 dots representing the elements of the set "M." The set "C", the
cost of production contains 20 fewer points than set "M." Represent the set "C"
as a subset of set "M" and answer the following question: What is the
cardinality of the set "P" of profits?!
Teaching Math in 1980: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for
$100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment:
Underline the number 20.
Teaching Math in 1990: By cutting down beautiful forest trees,
the logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic
for class participation after answering the question: How did the forest birds
and squirrels "feel" as the logger cut down the trees? There are no wrong
answers.
Teaching Math in 2002: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for
$100. His cost of production is $120. How does Arthur Andersen determine that
his profit is $60?
Teaching Math in 2010: El hachero vende un camion carga por $100.
La ! cuesta de production es....
Maybe it's time the old WASP lost its sting!
revgilmer in Texarkana
In regards to the A on the Exam thing... I did that in a private
HS, except I made the kids sweat the exam. It was a religion course and I did
this will all three grases (9-11). On the final page I wrote an essay on grace
and explained they had an "A". It was hard to watch the kids sweat and struggle
through the exam which was not easy. The reaction I got was great. One of my
kids came up after reading my essay on grace, explaining what I was doing, came
up to me and said "I don't get it- what do you want me to do?". Isn't that so
true when God's grace is explained sometimes we look up at God said say "I don't
get it- what do you want me to do?"
Most of the kids got them message though and the smile on one
kid's face as he readched the last page-- the sighs of anguish becoming sighs of
relief-- I knew that at least for one moment these kids knew grace. And not one
complained!
MTSOfan-Unrelated to the text, I recently reread all the
Chronicles of Narnia and am thinking of using the series for Lent. These books
are wonderful even the third time through! Aslanclan
Don’t we as Christian evangelists spend our whole lives trying to
get more and more people into the vineyard and desire them to receive the same
as we do.
Isn’t that the whole point of our calling?
Pr.del in Ia
revgilmer, Thanx! Teaching Math was hilarious. It goes now to
several teaching friends of mine. tom in TN(USA)
Would like some help...
Does anyone have the words to the song, "Money for Nothing," by
Men at Work? I'd like to use some of the lyrics in my sermon, titled "That Ain't
Workin'"
Thanks,
Michelle
Michelle:
Unless there is another song by the same title, "Money for
Nothing" was sung by Dire Straits....
Blessings, Eric in KS
My own illustration of this parable:
Try to picture yourself in Wal-Mart waiting to check out. There
are 7 people in front of you with carts stuffed till they are overflowing.
(Oh, I know this would never happen. Wal-Mart wouldn’t let their
lines get that long. But let’s pretend for a moment.)
You’re thinking. Man, I’m glad I brought my Bible. I should be
able to finish the book of Psalms and most of Proverbs before I have to leave
this place.
So you just settle in for your long winter’s nap, and try to pass
the time. All of a sudden you hear over the store PA system.
“ATTENTION WAL-MART SHOPPERS! It’s time to switch. The checkers
will be moving their checkout stations to the opposite end of the line. Those of
you who are last in line will now be first. Those of you who were first in line
will now be last.”
If you happened to be last in line when this happened, that would
be great. But what if you were next, and you had already waited 20 minutes?
EXCUSE ME!!! I’D LIKE TO SPEAK WITH THE MANAGER HERE. IF YOU WANT
TO KEEP MY BUSINESS YOU’LL DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS MESS. I WILL NOT BE TREATED
THIS WAY!!
In the end of Matthew 19, Jesus taught his disciples these words.
Read Matthew 19:30
Again in Matthew 20:16, he said the same thing.
Now suppose you find out that your local Wal-Mart does this thing
as a common practice.
The next time you’re there.... If you go back at all.....
And you are heading to the checkout....and you notice that little
old blue-haired granny heading the same way.
Will you avoid eye contact and rush to get in front of her?
Or will you let her go first even though you know that if she
gets ahead of you she will likely count out every last bit of change in pennies.
(Twelve-oh-one....twelve -eighty-one, twelve-eighty-two...)
To live by this teaching of the last shall be first, you have to
learn to deny yourself and serve others.
GC in IL
Re: The Lighthouse Story -- I have cite that says:
Thomas Wedel, Ecumenical Review, October, 1953, paraphrased in
Heaven Bound Living, Knofel Stanton, Standard, 1989, p. 99-101.
JC in TN
The real issue at hand for me is whether or not God is a just
god?
I don't think we should criticize those who get upset for wanting
more pay for more work. Justice demands it!
But, on the other hand, the text says that landowner went out
early in the morning to hire laborers. This is an unusual landowner. Normally,
the expectation was that the day laborer came to the landowner and begged for
work. Actually, this is still true in many parts of the Mediterranean.
Secondly, the landowner went out again and sought more day
laborers. Not only does he offer them work, he agrees to pay them whatever is
right. Let's remember that 9 o'clock in the morning was considered late in the
day for a day laborer. They had already lost 4 hours, and were probably
wondering if they would get any work at all. Once the sun is at its highest it
would be unbearable to work in the vineyard.
And the landowner does this throughout the day. He made sure
there was enough work for everyone. What a loving person this landowner must
have been. But was the landowner just?
Not according to the workers who started in the morning. Justice
for them would have been equal pay for equal work.
But how can a day laborer demand more? Day laborers are dependent
on landowners, just as we are dependent on God.
A seminary professor once shared his commentary on the book of
Job. He said that those who upheld the Law, like Job, had every right to hold
God accountable. They could demand justice and remind God of the covenant.
This isn't true of the Christian. We have a different
arrangement. The Christian depends upon God's Grace. There is no work that
assures salvation. Since we are all sinners we have no right to expect anything.
Yet, God in His goodness gives to all.
A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...
What do I REALLY think about forgiveness? Are their people that
still annoy me because of who they are - either above me or below me (whatever
that means)?
To think that Nineveh can be spared and drawn into God's grace
means that their is hope for the Middle East, for our enemies, as well as for
ourselves.
tom in ga
Eric in KS,
Thanks for the correction. The lyrics by Dire Straits are indeed
the ones I wanted.
Michelle
Some of those lyrics are horrible... I never could make them all
out. I just wanted to relate to the inequity of compensation... Might have to
rethink this...
Michelle
Another observation I gleaned from a commentary. Matthew wrote
his gospel for a primarily Jewish audience. How would they have read it?
Wouldn't they have understood themselves as 'first' and the Gentile Christians
as 'last'?
I have some charter members who like to see themselves as first.
I'm sure you do as well.
A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...
Two things though it's late..Previous discussion illustrates the
idea of a Stewardship sermon in which there are increases in pledges levied
depending on the years of membership. I am in a congregation that would not only
react as I would hope but would indeed realize the enormous impact and 'forgive'
my use of the story. GC the Walmart story is priceless..how many times have I
been frustrated by the grocery store or Walmart (which by the way, does let
lines get long) and a new aisle opens up. Amazing. Thanks for the inspiration.
Malia
I’d like to throw my thoughts up for your insight and correction.
I’m new at this so I would appreciate any feedback . . .
This text is often explained to make the ways of the landowner
seem fair . . .
But doesn’t that miss the point . . .
The ways of the landowner are “unfair” – the ways of the
landowner are the ways of God and God’s ways are not our ways (and viewed from
our perspective, seem unfair). (Is 55: 8 – 9)
So our challenge is not how to explain the actions as fair but to
understand the actions as grace – a radical departure from our thought process.
Rather than trying to build a bridge of rationality from the ways
of the landowner to our mindset, perhaps we should emphasize the radical
difference between His ways and our ways.
Is this text an insight into the “mind of Christ?” Is it a clear,
though difficult to grasp, illustration of the difference in our approach to
things from His approach to things?
For example, when we engage in the popular WWJD, we may be guilty
of applying “Jesus logic” as just an extension or add-on to our value system
rather than really accepting a radically different perspective.
Can this text be used to introduce the radical difference of the
new math of grace? JC in TN
The discussion is great this week. I don't contribute often, but
just wanted to offer this last minute thought. We all assume that this parable
is about inheriting eternal life (mt 19:20), and our sense of fairness insists
that the last minute workers should be paid less than those who have worked all
day. Assuming we don't think they shouldn't be paid at all, how could they get
only partial eternal life? Hmmm. RevAnitra
JC in TN,
I would say your thoughts are right on target. Keep up the good
work.
Michelle
Thanks for the great story Heidi... where in ND are you? That's
going to preach in Fargo, tomorrow! ;?)
pulpitt in ND
TIger Woods made a comment yesterday I think it was... said he'd
rather play for a $1,000,000 than for the US Davis Cup Team.... he's been called
selfish by others for that statement. How many of us wouldn't rather have money
than "recognition"? We're all a little selfish when it comes right down to it.
Yet, to admit it publically could get us all in trouble... the workers in the
field seem to want the recognition not JUST the money! OR am I wrong...?
pulpitt in ND
I think parishoners relate to this story from Matthew... have you
ever come into a church with the same salary as that of the pastor that just
left. Even the former pastor may be feeling... "Hey, I had to work for years to
gain their trust, to aquire this level of salary... and her comes this NEW
guy/gal who automatically gets the same.
Another example is...
We just "hired" a youth Director... she is working for FREE from
Sept-Dec. beginning in January her yearly salary will be $8,000... a small
amount to be sure... but a lot more than "nothing" for a part-time job. I think
she's shows great faith.
pulpitt in ND
New Pastor on the Jersey Shore got me thinking...
We've got our charge conference tomorrow and every member has a
vote, whether they've been there 1 day or 50 years. There may be a bit or
resentment in that. One vote is enough. No more is needed. No more is allowed.
Mark in WI
