Hi all.
"IF another member of the church sins against you..."? Let's be
honest and say "WHEN."
This might be a chance for us to confront the tendency we have to
expect that "church
people should know better." We don't. We blow it. All the time.
That is precisely why life in this community is not defined by a
lack of conflict, or a lack of
hurt feelings, or a lack of pain being cause by, and to, other
believers, or everyone agreeing with
each other, and being happy with each other.
Life in this community we call the church is to be defined by
forgiveness, by including people who
blow it, by welcoming people who hurt others, by embracing people
who have sordid pasts.
And let's be honest about one other thing. The church itself has a
sordid past when it comes to
welcoming the unwelcome. We have done a pretty poor job of being the
forgiving, loving people
Jesus calls us to be.
Maybe this is a chance for us to confess this sin and admit who
we've been.
Then the promise at the end of this passage (Christ's presence with
us anyway) will be heard
as Good News for fallen people, as opposed to permission to accept
the status quo.
Sam Platts
Rick: The church does have a sordid past when it comes to
welcoming. Some denominations refused to
baptize blacks because they weren't deemed human. The Dred Scott
mentality. But on the other hand,
somehow the good Word has spread anyway, and the left out are now in
reality believers in the Risen
Christ. In spite of the sinful attitude of members of the church,
the Word has power of its
own to transform and give hope.
People are attracted to church because they deeply want to have a
relationship with Our Father, in
spite of the fallen nature of the church. Somehow in the presence of
other sinners, come together in
the Name of Jesus, He is really present, and you can experience his
presence. I am sure you have
had that experience.
steve souther
I agree, Rick, this "Is a chance for us to confess our sins." I'll
start: I confess to having caused pain in others, and I'm sorry. If it
has happened in this fellowship, (and I'm almost sure it has) I am
truly sorry.
The thing is, it is so easy to do harm in a working
relationship with other Christians. Those of us who have opened our
hearts are most vulnerable. And so, I must be very mindful of what I
say.
The text recognizes this very thing, as you both (Rick
and Sam) have said. And it bears repeating: the whole intent is for
reconciliation, not punishment; forgiveness (as you mentioned, Sam),
and not holding grudges; it is for redemption, not vengeance. This
makes all the difference!
Areas of agreement must be found, for it is here that
we find answers to our prayers. Instead of focusing on our
differences, we need to look for whatever common ground we do have.
And finally, we should stay and work it out, not walk
away. Avoiding the person who has done something to us is one of the
favorite responses. But, rather than keeping the peace, it is poison
to the relationship. The text speaks powerfully to this ---which is
most needed in congregations, especially small ones where everyone
knows
everyone else, and they have lived in close proximity
to each other for a long time!
This is such a sane way of dealing with conflict or
problems among members of the faith community, and yet this is not
what we do, we seek to destroy the "reputation" or the "person" as
quickly as we can. What has happened to "forgiveness" in the life of
the Body of Christ?
tom in Ga
This text asks the question, "How did Jesus treat
Gentiles and tax collectors?" Bob in OK
What does this text say to us with regard to
forgiveness for the events of 9/11/01? PH in OH
Jesus trated tax collectors with inviting gentleness
and offers of forgiveness and new community.
Justice and forgivenss in a dispute are rarely the
same thing.
Pr.del in Ia
A Note on this Passage in the Light of the
Disciplinary Rubric within the Episcopal Church:
Matthew 18:15-20 is called by the commentator M’Neile
“the most distinctively ecclesiastical passages in Matthew’s Gospel.
It describes the process whereby, following a break between
brothers, a restoration is attempted. There are three stages: (1) A
private settling of the offense is first tried, the aim being to
gain one’s brother. (2) If this fails, the matter is presented to
impartial witnesses. (3) Failing both of these, the matter is
referred to the Church. If the Church is not heeded, the offending
person is excluded, such exclusion is final. <Danial Stevick, Canon
Law: A Handbook, New York: Seabury Press, 1965>
This sounds cruel, yet if you think about it - if the
person refuses reconciliation - what can the church do?
tom in ga
I can't sign this for confidentiality reasons, but I
need to ask. What do you say to a man who says, "I'm to young to
stay married to someone with whom I'm not happy." He is unwilling
even to try to work things out with his wife, and instead has
committed himself to another woman. I can't say what he is doing is
right. Thoughts?
To Confidentiality:
This is someone who needs to be referred to a
therapist. I am curious why he told you any of this if he isn't
desiring to seek help.
There is nothing you can do, except listen to him and
try to find someone competent that he can see. If that fails, you
need to let this go.
I am curious, myself, about how young was he when he
married? How long did they know each other? How long did they date?
How old is she?
The fact that he is "unwilling to work things out" is
a sign that there is little for you to do. And the fact that he has
already "committed" himself to someone else is a clear statement
that he has no idea what marriage is.
There is nothing that he is doing right! The main
thing for you is to take care of yourself in the midst of all that
is going on. If you can't help him, talk with some other clergy
friends or counsellors for their advise.
In the meantime keep this relation or lack of
relatiionship in your prayers.
tom in ga
To COnfidential; The fact that this man who is so
"unhappy " wants to enter another "committed" relationship shows
that he is in a deep illusion about where happiness comes from, and
he knows not the meaning of "commitment." Can you tell him that he
needs to work with a good counselor to see what it is within HIMSELF
that is going on before he makes another big move in his life? I
feel bad for his partner now and his "future" partner who will go
down this same road with him. I also bet this isn't a first for him
in many relationships. I concur with what Tom in Ga said too.Be with
this person speaking the truth with respect. Jim in ct.
This Sunday will be our "welcome back - beginning of
choir and Sunday School" Sunday. This scripture seems to address
on-going issues in the community, rather than new beginnings. Help!
Maybe I'll focus on the last part of the scripture, "Where two or
three are gathered together." Start with God's presence, rather than
ecclesiastical processes.
(I'm also back after being gone all summer... had to
resign to get a new title, Presbyterian style..) DGinNYC
Bob in Ok--Yes; the prior regard Jesus has shown for
tax collectors and Gentiles sets a brilliant twist in the direction
of this text!
The text asks us to take responsibility for our
feelings of being "sinned against"--Does the phrase, "sinned
against" have an association with specific behaviors? Or does it
work in the vernacular just to say, feelings of being "hurt."?
I've worked with the belief that if a reconciliation
or understanding cannot be established after one or two
conversations, then the item being discussed isn't the core issue
anyway. The process will need to be greatly slowed down until the
core issue(s) can be admitted or discerned. And at that point, there
may still be no happy outcome.
I remember one incident in the early days of my
parish ministry in which the council directed that I go into a
professionally mediated session with a parishioner whose feelings
were hurt by my drawing a principled boundry. There was little value
in the mediation session because I knew there was no negotiating on
the pastoral boundry. The parishioner would not be able to get what
she wanted. This was not a fun experience. But I look back on it now
and know it was one of a handful of pivotal decisions which, if not
made, would have only created a much longer and even more draining
consequences and not positively energized the ministry.
One pastor friend of mine once quipped about people
who leave the church mad/indignantly/etc "I've never heard anyone
say that they've missed the cancerous tumor that had been removed
from their body."
Is this reference to binding and loosing still the
office of the keys, not now addressed just to Peter?Is the phrase
here still a matter of being empowered to determine how the
rules/ways of community should be applied? Aslanclan
To Confidential:
It has been my own experience that people often come
in under the guise of seeking direction when all they really want is
someone to condone and give a stamp of approval to their actions.
I cannot tell you what to do, but I can tell you what
I often do. I let the offender know, in the gentlest manner I can,
that he is wrong. I usually do this by asking them what God teaches
about their situation if they know that much. Then I let them talk
themselves into the corner.
I know this is risky, and you might be concerned for
"losing" a brother (at least that's what I've been told). The way I
see it though, you've lost him already. Somebody has to point him
back to the right way and force him to choose.
GC in IL
Just an initial reading of the text, but is anyone
else struck by what the rest of chapter 18 has to say. In this
week's passage, we read about what we are to do when someone else
wrongs us, yet all around this passage we find elements of what we
do when WE mess up. The disciples, supposedly the leaders, arguing
about who is greatest, the celebration God has when one lost sheep
comes home, and a servant who receives forgiveness, but won't
forgive another. Can we really preach on the gospel passage without
looking at both sides of the coin - what do we do when someone sins
against us AND what do we do when our actions hurt others? Is it
ever a clear cut decision, or do we have to hold both in tension,
asking how we ourselves have contributed to each situation as well
as how others actions affect us? kn in ln
OK - maybe I've got a defensive take on this passage,
but I have to admit that I've always wondered who determines that
the other person really HAS sinned against someone? Maybe it's just
in that person's own mind; there are some pretty touchy folks out
there! Who advocates for the accused?
Sally in GA
To further this thought: there is a temptation for
all church folks, but especially those in declining churches, to
keep peace at all costs. A woman called me up one Sunday afternoon
to tell me another woman was mad at me! She said, "we don't need to
lose any more members."
Sally in GA again (I always seem to think of
something else right after I post my first thought)
And one more on a personal note. I ask your prayers.
I'm having a day of disillusionment and disappointment.
Sally
Sally in GA wrote: I've always wondered who
determines that the other person really HAS sinned against someone?
Maybe it's just in that person's own mind; there are some pretty
touchy folks out there! Who advocates for the accused?
It seems that Jesus teaching in these verses protects
against what I call the "eternal victim" mentality. We all know
them. Someone who is perpetually offended.
If one follows the steps laid out, it should come to
light if a person is needlessly sensitive on a matter.
Of course I realize that many churches, especially
smaller or declining ones, are made up of a few families. Keeping
the peace in the family if often placed above doing what is right
for the church.
But if a church is honest and open before God and and
searches the Scriptures for guidance and wisdom, they will make the
right decision.
That's why Jesus said what he did about binding and
loosing in verse 18.
I am considering using this text as a supplement to
last week's text where Peter opposed Jesus. We can come up with a
million reasons why this stuff can't be put into practice.
- We don't want to rock the boat. - We dont want to
lose anybody. - I would just rather be a martyr (the eternal vitcim).
- It is easier to talk about a problem to somebody else than it is
to deal directly with the offense. - I am afraid that the church
won't do what is right.
While all these excuses are valid, Jesus still put
these teaching in the hand of individual Christians and the
collective hands of the church. When we refuse to put them into
practice, are we not minding the things of men instead of the things
of God as Jesus told Peter in Matt. 16:23
To purloin a thought... What profit is it to a church
if it gains the whole world and loses its own soul? Or what will a
church give in exchange for its soul?
One last note..... Sally, God is still God. Christ is
Still Alive. He knew what he was doing back then, and he knows now.
Don't be discouraged. Keep your eyes on the reality and ignore the
illusions of disillusionment. In my prayer....
GC in IL GC in IL
Sally in GA-You are in my praying now.
I strongly relate to your post asking about whether
the one who perceives they have been "sinned against" is, in
fact,always such a wounded party. Or have we cultivated a fine art
of having our feelings hurt (i.e. the perception that someone has
missed the mark with us)?
When you get that third party phone call reporting
that "so&so is mad at you"-this Matthew passage is an ally. The
passage says that so&so has to come to you directly and report the
break in relationship. Otherwise the communication is just "gossip".
I routinely teach each new church council and every
pre-wedding couple about the basic 'triangle strangle' : someone
becomes victim, someone becomes rescuer and someone is identified as
persecutor. Nobody wins and the players all take turns in the three
roles. The wisdom in Matthew is that it starts the process with the
two people, there is no rescuer. The first one has to take action
based on what they feel/perceive/experience.
I have to admit that the 'triangle strangle' and the
churchly habit of catering to third-hand reports is a very hot
button for me. I'm persuaded that this little dynamic is responsible
for a whole lot of untimely deaths of pastorates and congregations.
I'd better shut off my comments at this point or I'll owe a lot of
apologies! Aslanclan
When I worked in a substance abuse treatment center,
we used to teach the clients what we called a "Care-frontation
formula." It has 3 parts: 1. When you . . . 2. I feel . . . 3. And
what I need from you is . . . I think the genius of this formula may
be in harmony with this passage, and a consideration for the
question about who decides who's the victim; that before you can use
it, you have to do your own homework. Identifying the offense
perhaps is easy, but steps 2 and 3 use the "I" prounoun, and so the
offended party must know what it is they feel, and what they need
(implication here is for a desired outcome). It calls for some
clarity on the part of the one who believes they've been "sinned
against." It also opens the relationship to further choice and
dialog. Just because we identify what we need from someone, doesn't
mean that they can provide it. Ideally this formula works as a tool
for reconciliation and understanding, although I used to warn my
clients not to try to use it as a weapon to beat someone. Example:
the frustrated parent can say, "What's the matter with you? Don't
you ever think of anyone besides yourself? Why didn't you call and
let me know you were going to be late?" etc, etc, etc - which
invites the teenager to be on the defensive, and to rationalize
staying out past curfew. But if the parent says, "When you don't get
home until 2 AM, I feel worried and scared that you've been in an
accident, and what I need from you is to call and let me know where
you are and what's going on." Since feelings are legitimate just
because they exist, it's harder to minimize or discount the parent's
experience. However, it gives the teenager a choice, to say, "Gee
mom, I'm sorry I worried you; that's a reasonable request, I'll try
to do better from now on." Or on the other hand to say, "Gee mom, I
didn't really want to worry you, but I'm a Senior now, and 10:00 is
not a reasonable weekend curfew; can't we negotiate on this." And
perhaps the family can get to agreement and Christ-like dynamics
without having to go through a church council.
I hope this is helpful input that someone can use.
Janice in KS
There was a priest in the early 1960's who
excommunicated his whole parish. It was during the time
African-Americans were visiting churches by bus and his congregation
had been informed that a bus of african-americans was going to visit
their parish on a particular day. The congregation said that they
would not have it and began to show their prejudice. The priest
wrote the bishop and warned the congregation that they needed to act
in a Christian matter, when they were visited the people were
outraged and the following week the priest refused to celebrate Holy
Communion until there was reconcilation among his congreagation.
tom in ga
Someone asked what this passage has to do with 9/11.
I would say, that at least as far as the first three verses are
concerned, it has nothing to do with 9/11... because it concerns
dealing with a fellow Christian who has sinned against you, not with
non-Christians who sin against you.
Regarding the post which says "We don't need to lose
any more members", chances are that woman was wrong. Most often
declining churches have several members they need to lose (or who
need to be converted, or at least who need to lose their power)
before the churches will once again be effective witnesses to Jesus
Christ.
Good question Bob in OK! How indeed did Jesus treat
gentiles and tax-collectors? He reached out to them (the Samaritan
woman at the well.) He loved them. He made friends with them. He
used them as examples for holiness (the Good Samaritan.) He broke
bread with them. He healed them even when he at first thought he
shouldn't (the Syro-Pheonician woman.) He even made one
tax-collector his disciple. He died for them. (The "them" is us.) In
otherwords, he forgave 70 x 7.
Rev. Pamela in Oakland
Sally in GA,
To answer specifically your question, "Who advocates
for the accused?" I believe that is the beauty of step 2, taking one
or two others with you to act as witnesses. They may also be persons
who can be objective about the matter, and help the two to work out
the situation before it comes before the whole community (read,
church).
Ideally the problem could even be worked out in step
one, if the accused cares enough to respond and the two can
communicate with one another to overcome what may have been a mere
misunderstanding.
Trouble as I see it, though, is that we rarely do
what we are supposed to do. We'd rather talk about it to anyone else
rather than the one involved.
Michelle
The charge of stewardship for discipleship and the
keys to the kingdom are not unlike Moses and the reception of the
Covenant commandments. Grace, still more grace, even prevenient
grace abounds on every side. Who can separate us from the love of
God in Christ Jesus, our Lord? It is not simply "costly
discipleship" but "costly grace" which pursues us in these
scriptures calling us to practice the presence of Christ. It is the
Incarnation itself which comes to bless us that we might
bless....even if that means starting all over again as Perterson's
paraphrase of these versus implies. (PaideiaSCO in reflection)
As most of us are entering the stewardship season and
preparing for Commitment Sunday, etc. It is important to realize
that for the next two weeks we will be dealing with
"The Stewardship of family and communal life" as we
face this issue of forgiveness which is at the heart of our faith in
Christ.
tom in ga
I think that we can possibly miss two underlying
thoughts in this passage. Firstly, this is a passage that presumes
intimacy and community, things that are often lacking in our church
communities. Jesus is speaking presuming he is communicating with a
group of people hwo, above all, care for each other deeply and so
want the best for each other. This is therefore a different sort of
confrontation or encounter than would coem out of the need to exert
power over another within the community. Secondly, we would do well
to expand the horizons of this passage. Jesus' message applies
equally well when we see our brothers and sisiters in the wider
secular political comunity not caring for others. In other words
perhaps this applies in cases when the church needs to speak out
against injustice inside as well as outside the church community.
Peace Rev Gordo Australia
I am going to use the OT lesson and psalm to do a Day
of Rememberance 9-11... Marked Day, Ninth month, too similiar to us
today, marked month and day in History.... Anyone else doing
anything similiar...Pastor mary in OH
Does anybody have any conflict stories that might be
seen as humorous.
I once heard about the "No-Peg Baptist Church" that
split off from another church over the placement of a peg on the
wall to hang a hat on. Don't know if it's true though.
I would like to show my people how ridiculous some of
the conflicts in the church are without using specific ones from our
own congregation.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
GC in IL
to GC in IL
When my former church renovated their hall, they
revitalized the Church. They became one of very few community
gathering places. Making their space available became the conerstone
of their local outreach. It was a good thing.
But when the Church and the hall were connected, a
pew was removed to make room for the staircase. And they lost a
family. Their pew was gone, so why would they come?
Silly conflict? Yes. One my sane supervisor lost
sleep over? Heck No.
nay-oh-mee
to GC in Ill
from internship: When the supervising pastor went
away for the first time, leaving me "in charge", the very first
thing several folks did - the day he left! - was to dig out
patriotic flags and such and place them prominently in the narthex.
I, of course, knew nothing of the ramifications of the display and
the behind-the-scenes prior actions and activities related to this
activity among them, so when the pastor returned, everyone looked
conveniently "stunned" and suggested that the intern - me - had
allowed it, so it must be okay! The items were quietly removed (by
whom no one seemed to know) in a matter of days.
LAD in MT
Heard a type of conflict story just yesterday.
A man said, "If the vote doesn't come out the way I
want it to, I'm not going to contribute another dime to the
anniversary fund."
Pastor replied, "I voted for you last county
election. You didn't win, but that doesn't mean I leave the county
and stop supporting its projects. If I vote for someone in the
statewide election and they don't win, I don't leave the state. If
the person I support for president doesn't win, I don't leave the
county. But if your project doesn't win the support of the
congregation, you're going to quit? Please reconsider."
Second story:
The youth in the back pew were not participating in
the liturgical worship of the congregation, i.e., they continued to
sit when everyone else stood. The pastor had just spoken, "Please
stand," along with the hand gesture indicating the same. Everyone
except those in the back pew stood. The pastor (knowing the youth
were not unable) said, "Would those in the back pew join us, and
please stand?" The parents of one of the young persons threatened to
leave the church because the Pastor had embarrassed them.
Michelle
GC in IL - there are some old jokes that often go
over well. I don't have my "old jokes" book with me, but I bet you
can get them on line.
One is about a (insert your denomination) in the
mountains back in the 20's. One of the congregants moved to the city
and became a driver for an ice truck. His family was bragging about
their son working for an ice company in the big city to the other
members of the congregation and a big debate ensued over whether ice
was available in the summer. One side insisted it was possible with
new-fangled refrigeration units. The other side had never heard such
a thing. Eventually, they had to split and the new church called
itself "No-Ice-In-The-Summer (***) Church."
Don't we often identify ourselves by which side of a
debate we fall on? liberal, conservative, whatever. Instead, said
Jesus last week ("You are putting your mind on human, and not divine
things") and again this week, "whatever you bound on earth will be
bound on earth ..."
Thanks, all for the advice. I've got more of a handle
on it.
I just wish Jesus would have said, "The accused has a
right to speak his/her mind and tell his/her side of the story."
Plenty of touchy people can gather a lot of support in a
congregation - especially if they have money. This scripture is
sometimes used as a weapon. I might do something unusual for me and
mention its misuse in the sermon. I hesitate to do that very often
because as soon as I indicate "this is not the way," someone will
think I said "this is the way." One's mind automatically crosses out
the word "not."
Sally in GA
Sally in GA
I too have seen people use this as a weapon. In the
past I have connected this with Galatians 6:1. Then I back up to
Galatians 5 and discuss the evidence of a spiritual person over
against the evidence of a person who is not spiritual (works of the
flesh).
When you get to the part that deals with selfishness,
you have an opening to discuss how NOT to use the instructions of
Jesus.
I have always said it would be so much simpler if
Christians would just act like it. But if they did, we would run out
of sermon material. ;)
GC in IL
Sally in GA,et al: 2 division stories, one true one a
funny. A small local church some years back, had a major split over
"debts" vs. "trespasses" in the Lord's prayer. The remaining group
is still struggling to make it with the loss of members. The other:
a man was rescued from a deserted island after many years there. His
rescuers looked around and saw 3 huts. They questioned him as to
their purpose. He replied, " this is where I live", pointing to the
first, "and this is where I go to church", pointing to the second.
What is the third one they asked? " Oh, that is where I used to go
to church!" Bob the builder
To Sally after a day of disillusionment and
discouragment.
A friend and I have an agreement...Never quit on
Monday ( I think it was a Mondya you posted) and never quit before
we talk to the other (friend in ministry). Today, on the way home, I
dropped by his office. I was glad, (again) that I have such a friend
who will say, "Yea....." and then give me a nudge back inot hte
world. I hope you have such a friend.
Avis in KY
GC in IL -- asking for examples of humorous
conflicts.
I once heard of a two stop light town. As you
approached the town from the north (or maybe it was the south but
whose arguing?) you saw a sign out front of a church that read, "The
church of God". On the next corner, at the first light there was
another church whose sign read, "The true church of God." At the
next light another church whose sign read, "The one true church of
God" Of course it was "not in my backyard".
Avis in KY
To Sally and others who experience disappointment and
discouragement--I have used general terms to hide my denomination. A
person from my judicatory was visiting the ruling body tonight on a
regular just visiting sort of meeting. She asked how it was going.
An elder responded by complaining about declining attendence and
promptly blamed it on us (the pastors). At that point I left the
room so they could talk freely, I feel sandbagged.
I am also glad that I will be interviewing with
another church this weekend and see away out. What can we do when we
have given it our best for a number of years and it isn't good
enough?
We live in a place with declining population, drought
and little economic hope. So how could we increase membership? Also
Anonymous
This text is dealing with conflict within the body of
Christ, not outside the body of Christ. The Gospel/grace within the
text is that reconciliation is attempted. The person is not simply
"left go." This is the healthy way for the church to deal with
conflict. As a Pastor the more difficult ? is what to do when
everyone is related, or if the conflict is directed towards you?
vicky in pa
To anon. when you've done your best, I prefer to say
have been faithful, and it's never enough sometimes all you can do
is leave. And pray for the congregation and yourself. Get as much
support as possible having been there numerous times myself. It's
the only way to avoid burnout.
A true story. Years ago a husband and wife had a
fight. Wife slaved all day over a hot wood stove making soup. In
those days that meant picking vegetables from the garden, washing
them, catching the chicken, killing the chicken, cooking it, adding
spices, and cooking the soup for hours over a hot stove. Her husband
came home from a long day in the fields farming. They had a fight
over some petty thing. Soon they were bringing up not only present
but also past transgressions. The tension and anger increased. The
man got so made that he took his shoe off (full of manure on the
bottom) and threw it into the pot. The soup was ruined. The house
quieted down. The man sat on the front porch. Soon the wife called
him to supper. His supper was served in a special way. The shoe was
placed on the kitchen table with the chicken soup in it. the second
act of revenge started the fight all over again. vicky in pa
To anon. when you've done your best, I prefer to say
have been faithful, and it's never enough sometimes all you can do
is leave. And pray for the congregation and yourself. Get as much
support as possible having been there numerous times myself. It's
the only way to avoid burnout.
A true story. Years ago a husband and wife had a
fight. Wife slaved all day over a hot wood stove making soup. In
those days that meant picking vegetables from the garden, washing
them, catching the chicken, killing the chicken, cooking it, adding
spices, and cooking the soup for hours over a hot stove. Her husband
came home from a long day in the fields farming. They had a fight
over some petty thing. Soon they were bringing up not only present
but also past transgressions. The tension and anger increased. The
man got so made that he took his shoe off (full of manure on the
bottom) and threw it into the pot. The soup was ruined. The house
quieted down. The man sat on the front porch. Soon the wife called
him to supper. His supper was served in a special way. The shoe was
placed on the kitchen table with the chicken soup in it. the second
act of revenge started the fight all over again. vicky in pa
I think I am going to tie these texts with the
African theological concept of "Ubuntu" from John Mbiti. He spoke of
community this way: "I am, because we are." It is only in community
that we exist. Community happens first, and then shows us who we are
as individuals. If that community is wounded, until we reach some
kind of reconciliation, it cannot be whole. Do we not also need to
consider ways to seek global reconciliation? Should we not seek out
why people are so desperate as to forfeit themselves--their futures,
their lives, their families--in order to gain the attention of a
huge world power? Pondering Pastor in IL
It occurred to me this morning that I have often been
disappointed that Christians don't act like it. Today I realized
something about this text.
Jesus said, "If your brother sins (against you)..."
in a special way in Greek. The statement is classified as a 3rd
class conditional sentence. That means it can be interpretd as a
probable future occurrence. "If your brother sins, and he likely
will...."
Jesus knew what takes us a long time to learn. Even
people who are Christians for years still won't act like it all the
time. He is simply preparing us for that fact. I see this like a
tornado drill or a fire drill in school. You don't wait until the
disaster in looming over you to prepare.
GC in IL
I recently preached this passage because of a great
deal of conflict within the congregation that I serve. I have been
here for 4 years and there has been one issue after another. I have
worked to stabilize the church, but alas it has been conflicted for
all but about 5 – 6 years, three of those my first three here, of
its 30 year history. Those three years were relatively peaceful
because all but 15 people had left and in the past year many of the
old members came back and wanted the direction to be where they used
to be headed – almost of one community and controlled by white men.
It has created 4 other churches through splits (all
of those are pretty healthy now.)
It seems that over the years the Church has had a
habit of secret meetings and hidden agendas. I knew that they were a
difficult church when we cam to Nashville, but did not think that
the dysfunction would continue at such a fevered pitch and we had
thought we had gotten beyond those issues. What amazes me is the
fact that so many say they believe that the way Jesus lays out this
process is the best way to deal with it – but they instead
triangulate and defame each other.
Now I am to the point of decision about what to do
with the church. Do I just hang in and see if things do work out as
I try to work them out with folks? Do I just accept that the need
for what they want is real yet it is not where I believe God wants
me? The difficult thing is that I know we, my spouse and I, are
called to this city and region to build a bridge building community
of faith between races, cultures, orientations and other things that
divide humanity.
I think that we often think that this is a pretty
process that is easy – but in such a situation as what I find myself
it is not easy. After meetings with others and attempting to work
things out with them all, it appears that now it is easier to all
gang up on one person and blame them than to deal with each other
and the conflicts there. The older (age and previous members) were
dogging each other and when we started talking in Worship, Bible
study and Fellowship times about building each other up instead of
tearing down they started getting hot at the newer leaders (younger,
women and racial minorities) that held them accountable.
Now we have been asked point blank to start the new
type of community by starting a new church and allowing the people
that remain follow what they think God is calling them to do.
So now I am caught in the middle – trying to teach
them all how to deal with conflict effectively and positively and
being vilified by some and asked to lead a new work by others.
I believe that there is room for both missions in the
same church, but how can you teach that to people who would rather
live in conflict and strife than to talk to each other and learn?
The strife is the product of a history of unhealthy behavior as a
church and not wanting to see changes for the new generation. It
just causes people my age to give up – why stay in a church that is
more like a Jerry Springer show than spiritual refuge.
Whatever my decision I will ensure that I make right
anything that I might have done to cause issues. I will seek
reconciliation and place blessing on continuing journeys for each
person. My love is not tarnished by this but my soul is bruised.
Another pastor even told me that they knew that I could not make a
difference in the way this church acted. To which I say, no I
cannot, but God through Christ can.
I have found out more than ever that we need to have
firmer guidelines as churches that require direct dealing, because
much was under wraps – almost like a plan. Whatever happens in
churches it all needs to be shown in the light of day. That might
just end the cycle that so many go through.
Blessings from the South Not signed for
confidentiality as well
Perhaps the most interesting thing about this reading
is that when we are hurt by someone, we are to go to that person not
out of anger or pain but to regain our sister or brother, to offer
that person salvation, so that person will not be lost. The ministry
of reconciliation is the responsibility of the party that has been
hurt. The person who does the hurting may or may not know the extent
of the injury .. it is our task to share that with him or her and to
welcome him or her back into communion ... to to run away, shun, or
ignore.
What a great way to begin the fall with these two
weeks regarding forgiveness. It is interesting that the Jews are
celebrating the new year beginning this evening and during this time
leading upt to Yom Kippur they are asking and writing to those who
they have hurt asking forgiveness. This is something we could all
learn from them.
tom in ga
