Scripture Text (NRSV)
9:30 They went on from there and passed through Galilee. He did not
want anyone to know it;
9:31 for he was teaching his disciples, saying to them, "The Son of
Man is to be betrayed into human hands, and they will kill him, and
three days after being killed, he will rise again."
9:32 But they did not understand what he was saying and were afraid to
ask him.
9:33 Then they came to Capernaum; and when he was in the house he
asked them, "What were you arguing about on the way?"
9:34 But they were silent, for on the way they had argued with one
another who was the greatest.
9:35 He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, "Whoever wants
to be first must be last of all and servant of all."
9:36 Then he took a little child and put it among them; and taking it
in his arms, he said to them,
9:37 "Whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me, and
whoever welcomes me welcomes not me but the one who sent me."
Comments:
Why would Jesus tell the disciples that to receive Him we must receive
one child in His name? Does He mean that to receive a child from God
in our marriage or to adopt a child in His name is to receive Him as
in the Eucharist? He implies that God is like a child. I understand it
when Jesus says we need to approach our God with the simple openness
of a child by why does Jesus say to receive a a child is to receive
Him? Is God like a child? TiminOH
'Welcome one such child..."
There appears to be a contrast of ministry styles here. One, from the
disciples, is based on status, 'Who is the best?', 'Who comes first?'.
Jesus, with the child, seems to speak of a community based on
relationships, equality and embracing the Spirit that binds us
together.
The disciples are climbing over one another (and the children, the
women, the outcasts and everyone else) to get to sit with Jesus (not
to suffer, mind you, but to have great status). They show no regard
for anyone but themselves. Jesus makes room for everyone (including
the poorly behavng disciples) and calls for community.
Also, notice the irony of Jesus speaking about his coming death and
the disciples, with feaar-induced disregard, become concerned about
who is greater. "Yeah sure," they say, "you are going to die but what
is in it for us?"
TB in MN
PS On a personal note... years ago, when my mother died, I found the
best confort for me came from sitting with my daughter and being
close. Given the cold regard of his friends, maybe Jesus just wanted
to feel better by hugging a child.
Is anyone keeping the feast of StMatthew this Sunday? Different
readings - could they be on the lectionary list as well for those of
us not keeping Ordinary Time. Grateful DSP user, but never before
submitted anything Phyll, West Yorkshire, England
9:32 - I'd be afraid to ask, too, if Jesus had just called one of MY
friends "satan!" That's exactly what Peter was wrestling with - that
the Son of Man was to suffer, die, be buried, and rise.
Human beings are so concerned with keeping score. The conflicts and
disputes come from, says James, "your cravings that are at war within
you." The craving is for status - heck, they're still thinking that
their big problem is Rome - that the Messiah was going to overthrow
Rome, maybe they were trying to hash out an early structure of
government for when it happened.
Sally in GA
I'm with TB in MN. I think the contrast here is in "great" vs. "nobody
much". In that society, women and children had no real place except as
a near possession of a man. While the disciples were bickering about
which one of them would get to sit at the head of the table one day,
Jesus reached down to the "nobody" child and announced "My Kingdom is
about a different kind of greatness than you seem to understand. It is
about inclusiveness, it is about giving voice to the silenced, it is
about giving a place to every person. It is about the one who wants to
be great achieving greatness by being the servant to the "lowly" among
you. If you can understand this, you understand the purpose of my
being here among you. It's not about YOU, it's about God's grace to
all. Your job is to go spread this love around to the people."
I see this as a bit of a preview to his ultimate service to lowly,
undeserving humankind when he died on the Cross. He never looked to be
called "great"; he refused to even be called "good". He only wanted to
bring all of us into the presence of God, glorifying God through his
act of submission for those who did not deserve his graciousness.
These are just early ramblings. Please overlook any incoherent
thoughts.....
By the way, I have to tell you that even though I don't know a single
one of you personally, I felt you were there with me in the pulpit
9/14/03. Truly! My sermon definitely contained parts of so many of
you! Thank you again for sharing on this DPS forum.
KyHoosierCat
I think Sally in GA is really onto a strong connection. The link
beween the contest for greatness among the disciples and the conflict
described in the James reading. Whether it be bickering in the church
Board meeting or attempting to obliterate Iraq, there is a lot we can
all learn from these passages. Thanks Sally.
DWR in NM
The disciples were arguing about who was the greatest. Jesus responded
that whoever wanted to be first must be last of all and servant of
all.
There are several other instances when Jesus offers teachings similar
to this one. I know that I am drawing on those as well, but I have an
ingrained understanding that a desire to be great is not consistent
with the values of the kingdom of God. One who desires to be great is
misguided and misunderstands what the kingdom of God is all about.
I try to apply this in my church and set an example for the
congregation by being willing to do any job that needs to be done in
the church. A few weeks ago, when we were without a custodian, I spent
a few hours on my day off vacuuming the sanctuary, getting rid of
cobwebs, cleaning the restrooms, refilling toilet paper dispensers,
and sweeping the hallways, etc. A couple of staff members were the
only witnesses to my work.
We are getting ready to do our nominations for the coming year and the
jobs that are hardest to fill are on the kitchen committee, the
trustees, etc. I don't enjoy doing those kinds of jobs, but they have
to be done and I have the attitude that everyone ought to take a turn.
However, I had some parishoners once who didn't help do any of the
clean-up jobs. Whenever they were asked to help they cheerfully said,
"That's not my spiritual gift!" and left. I heard about a nominations
meeting once in which a person's name was suggested to serve on the
kitchen committee and one of the committee members spoke up and said,
"They're not kitchen material." Another committee member who is also a
member of the kitchen committee asked just what qualities were
necessary to be "kitchen material." There were some sparks flying
there for a few minutes.
I've heard some great leaders say that they try to lead by example and
show their people that they are not above doing any job that needs to
be done. When I try that it seems as if people are perfectly happy to
sit back and let me do the work. I'm not sure that I have the values
of the kingdom as ingrained as I think. If I did, I wouldn't resent
the fact that 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
Will any of this stuff preach, or was Jesus talking about something
else? Creature Wayne
To 'Creature Wayne':
You are offering an observation that is as old as the church and proof
that the Kingdom of God has yet to arrive! I've been there and I feel
for you and your congregation.
This passage, and Christ's ministry, is about the need to be an
inclusive supportive community. We are servants (though be careful not
to inspire folks to become doormats), workers (though not called to be
exploited) and faithful friends (not called to be taken advantage of).
Preaching this passage is delicate because some of our hardest workers
are motivated at times by a core of guilt and preaching to that guilt
is one of the cheaper, potentially harmful, forms of a sermon. It is
attractive to hammer the disciples for their self-centered bickering
but then we miss the lesson of the child and the call to welcome.
One of the saving graces is that Jesus seems not to be concerned with
those who do not get involved or sit off on the sidelines. He is
motivated to minister by those who reach out, speak up and are willing
to travel with him (frequently they are also the sick, the lost and
the left-out). Even though the disciples are often thick headed and
self centered, Jesus still walks with them because they will walk with
him.
TB in MN
We don't know WHY the disciples were bickering about who would be the
greatest. Maybe they each felt they had done the most "grunt work" in
their travels around the countryside. "I do all the cooking". "Well,
I'm the one who hauls all your clothes down to the lake to wash the
filthy things". "What about me? I seem to be the only one who knows
how to fix sandals!" The one who has the most hours logged is the best
disciple? Or, maybe they were citing their laundry lists on which one
had been a better friend to Jesus, thereby winning some contest. It's
starting to sound like the contestants on that reality show
"Survivor", isn't it? Complaining, back-biting, alliances, etc., with
one ultimate winner.
We don't know anything beyond they were concerned with who is the
greatest. Jesus says "Get out of your little box and just serve. If it
needs to be done, do it. And there is much to be done." I guess I have
concluded over the years that just as Jesus said we would always have
the poor among us, we will also have the slackers among us. We are
dealing with humans, who are by nature out for their own desires to be
satisfied at the least cost to themselves.** I count myself among
them, mind you. Somehow, if we want to see this changed, we must
prompt their spiritual natures to take over and to instill a spirit of
loving, grateful servitide. The big question is, how do we do that if
we don't do it by example?
Maybe people have just had it too darn easy for too long, and we don't
expect too much of ourselves anymore. On the other hand, some may just
be worn out from a lifetime of service to others. Can the Spirit move
us all to new paradigms?
** See Sally in GA's 9/15 post on the James site. She speaks to this
quite well.
KyHoosierCat
I've been setting up, taking down, and moving tables and chairs in the
church for 40+ years now and still find myself engaged in this task
which I do not particularly enjoy. There are always some people in the
church that I can count on to voluntarily pitch in and help when there
is work to be done. Lately, I have been telling them that I have a
direct revelation from God that those who move tables and chairs in
this life will not have to do it in the kingdom. It usually gets a
smile from my helpers, but I don't think they really believe it.
Creature Wayne
The disciples remind me of my teenage sons in the morning before we
leave for school and work, and how they're always fighting each other
for the front seat of our van. "Shotgun!" they call. Of coarse, I'm
asking questions and giving information throughout the whole ordeal,
all of which is a matter of life and death for me but none of which
they remember. They're too busy jockeying for the coveted front seat.
The disciples don't even hear Jesus as he's sharing his important,
painful, life and death information with his friends. They're too busy
calling, "Shotgun." Jesus tells them if they want to ride shotgun with
him, they'd better check their hearts. The winner of the front seat
won't be the smartest or the strongest or the best looking or the one
with the most money, but the one who has great compassion...and, as
James mentions, "shows no partiality." revdlk in nebraska
revdlk,
Love the "shotgun" analogy. It is one that 90% of any congregation
will relate to and you are exactly right, the important messages of
the day are lost in the battle of a basicaly insignificant possition.
Where we sit matters little. It is who or what holds our hearts. Jesus
forever seems to be sending us to look at the children. We get so
wrapped up in the technicalities that we forget to love. How simple a
childs faith is. how I wish it was easier for adults. I don't preach
this Sunday, but you are all such a support and encouragement to me
that I will be watching....and sharing...
Tammy in Texas
I may be way off base here & I guess that is why I am writing - to see
what you all think of this thought. I wonder after hearing Jesus say
he would die soon & they didn't understand but were afraid to ask. I
could see this leading to the discussion or arguement about the
greatest. "He said he was going to die. What are we going to do?" Who
should replace him as our leader?" The one that is the greatest of
course & the arguement begins. "that's me you know I'm better with the
masses than you are." No that's me I have better organizational skills
than you. No it's me because I've been here the longest. etc... Jesus
points that His teaching about His death it is not so that some one
great can take over the reigns & lead the masses/ the crowd. It is
about the need to first trust Jesus (welcome in my name) & second to
reach out & touch the individual (the child) - even that one that you
think won't matter. Its serving & caring for the one that others seem
to ignore - use - abuse. It's about serving as Jesus served - loving
as Jesus loved us so that others may know we are His followers. Not
sure where I'm going with this. Just some thoughts running around up
in the noggin! :) MZinWV
As an observation on the disciples' discussion as to who would be
greatest as opposed to Jesus' taking up a little child, I need to
share something which might affect my "macho" image(ha,ha). Several
years ago, while traveling in Missouri, my wife insisted that we stop
at the "Precious Moments Chapel" near Carthage. I had never been a big
fan of the figurines but I said sure. In the Chapel is a large mural
named "Hallelujah Square" and it is the artist's vision of the main
square in Heaven. True to his style, it was filled with children
except for one adult who was easily spotted and easily recognizable:
Jesus. That made me stop for a moment and I suddenly realized that for
all of the "great" things I think I accomplish and all of the
"marvelous" deeds I think I do, I will never be more than a small
child in the eyes of the One Who has written the pages of all history
and Who created a universe with a Word. You know, I think I can live
with that. Mike from Soddy Daisy, TN
Jesus does not intervene in the argument at any time. He allows it to
continue until it is over or interrupted by their arrival at the house
in Capernaum. He does not ask about the outcome, for I doubt he cares
about the outcome. They have just fairly recently returned from their
2-by-2 missions, and had good things to report. Perhaps that is the
basis of their pre-Ali "I am the Greatest!" mantras. Jesus turns a
bravado contest into a gentle teachable moment whereby the Chosen 12
are shown to be no more important than the little child in the Kingdom
of God.
There are those in our churches who will tell you that loving God the
most means doing the most work in the name of the Church. Having a
good report to give helps the cause and is to be lauded. However, in
the Kingdom of God, those who have not signed up for a commitment and
have nothing to show for themselves are still part of what we're all
about. Jesus may let this argument of who does what and who doesn't do
diddly go on forever. He will never ask the outcome of it. He just
simply loves us all and welcomes us all into his Kingdom.
I have NO idea which direction I'm going this week. You've offered
lots of good food for thought.
KyHoosierCat
Revdlk the shotgun deal is great. But we disciples learn the lesson
hard. The disciples remind me of the little boy Kenny Rodgers sings
about.
Kenny Rogers sang a song about a little boy who fashioned himself a
baseball player, "I am the greatest!" he sang and figured to hit the
ball a country mile (after he himself had thrown it in the air) Three
times he tried three times he missed. The song ends the little boy
still thinks he is the greatest, but not for his batting ability
instead he sings, I didn't think I could pitch like that!!
It usually takes more than three strikes for us to think we are not
the greatest. We will change the rules, bend the principles, and even
re-invent the game to make us look good or feel good about ourselves.
But a familiar hymn reminds us, "Jesus knows our every weakness!" So
Jesus does the kid thing and brings them all back to reality. OK Billy
your leg is broken, why don't you sit in the front seat!!!
PBOB is SC
Hi all. I have been reading your contributions for a couple of weeks
now and I wish to thank you all...a silent participant, I am, but I
appreciate the depth of your comments so much. I find this week really
moving and challenging and TB in MN (and others)'s words regarding the
child and inclusiveness - "including poorly behaved disciples" - reach
the very heart of where my church is at at the moment. We have been
struggling with congregations in our church divided over the issue of
inclusivity to homosexual people. When readings like this week come up
it makes me so nervous - the offense that people will take to me
preaching INCLUSIVITY. There are select parishioners whom I sense
believe everything one preaches is about the sexuality issue.
Yet one cannot avoid the gospel. Every single week (just about) since
this has arisen in our church, the readings have spoken of love and
inclusiveness. Once again, how can one avoid the gospel? Sometimes it
is so tough to be true to what Christ is saying, knowing that the
words are so strong, there will be trouble to follow... But maybe this
is the cost of discipleship.
Thanks,SJ in Australia
Hi all. I have been reading your contributions for a couple of weeks
now and I wish to thank you all...a silent participant, I am, but I
appreciate the depth of your comments so much. I find this week really
moving and challenging and TB in MN (and others)'s words regarding the
child and inclusiveness - "including poorly behaved disciples" - reach
the very heart of where my church is at at the moment. We have been
struggling with congregations in our church divided over the issue of
inclusivity to homosexual people. When readings like this week come up
it makes me so nervous - the offense that people will take to me
preaching INCLUSIVITY. There are select parishioners whom I sense
believe everything one preaches is about the sexuality issue.
Yet one cannot avoid the gospel. Every single week (just about) since
this has arisen in our church, the readings have spoken of love and
inclusiveness. Once again, how can one avoid the gospel? Sometimes it
is so tough to be true to what Christ is saying, knowing that the
words are so strong, there will be trouble to follow... But maybe this
is the cost of discipleship.
Thanks,SJ in Australia
Thank you all for your comments. Projecting attitudes and doing
psychology on the disciples is always risky - and may say more about
what our issues are rather than what their issues were. For instance,
I it may be a huge leap to say they "showed no regard for anyone but
themselves, and were behaving poorly" (TB in MN). For these are the
same ones who went out teaching, preaching, and healing in Jesus' name
in MK 6, and Peter confessed Jesus to be the Christ in MK 8. Perhaps
the issue in the present scene is one we all face - how do we
function/organize/ operate/ work together as the loving community that
forms around Jesus. Some people (disciples then as well as now!)
really love the institution, to the point of forgetting that the more
organic, fundamental call of fellowship and love of God and neighbor
that we are called to practice does not require boards and committees,
bishops, cathedrals, white clapbopard church houses, stained glass and
icons, colorful vestments or simple black robes, plain white walls and
clear glass windows, this hymnal or that one, etc... Which way is
best? Which "church" brand is the right one? Who, indeed, is the
greatest among us? Jim in CT.
Each time we read a Scripture verse, no matter how familiar it is, we
have a primitive reaction to it. We form a first impression all over
again. Then, over the course of the week, we can pray about what God
wants us to glean, discuss it amongst ourselves, dig more deeply into
it, take it in new directions. That is the beauty of sermon and Sunday
School class preparation. Why, we can even change our minds half-way
through the week!
The disciples never got this opportunity. They got information dropped
on them, and they either got it or they didn't. Everything was first
impression with them and that's what got recorded for posterity.
Perhaps if we could come back to them a week later, we would find they
had come to a very different place than they were when we last saw
them. They were a rag-tag group of regular guys in whom Jesus saw a
potential to turn the world upside down. But they had to be coaxed and
coached first, sometimes with a rebuke, sometimes with a quiet
conversation. It all came to fruition in the end as 11 of the 12 lit
the fires that brought us to where we are today - being disciples who
sometimes get it, sometimes don't, and who need to be coaxed and
coached in what the Master wants us to understand.
KHC
Dear Creature Wayne,
Your attempts to exemplify Christ are wonderful. I appreciate you. As
a matter of fact I am willing to say that most all those who post in
DPS are much further along than I in following Christ. I am a
tortured, unsure and angry soul at heart. I have my church stories and
I hear everyone elses and I can't decide whether to cry or cuss. I am
much better at cussing so I do more of that. But God is still working
on me. My wife says I have improved much over the years!
Anyway, I am considering preaching for Satan one Sunday and thanking
them for all the pettiness and fighting. I would like to communicate
for Satan that when churches fight it makes my job of damning the
world so much easier. Every congregation I can get fight is another
congregation I don't have to worry about. I can then concentrate my
efforts in other places. I could even get so cocky as to tell them
that now they know my secrets they are still powerless to stop me!
I often dance on the edge of heresy if not by what I say how I say it.
I always wonder which one of my sermons will be my last because my
congregations or my superiors in the United Methodist Church say
enough is enough!
Grace and peace, Mike in Sunshine
And yet God's grace extends to you in your anger and torment, and to
the congregation in its pettiness and fightings. Jesus meets us
wherever we are, even those "foreign" to what he teaches us.
Thank you all for being here -- I too, like KHC, feel you were so much
a part of my sermon, allowing me to lurk (and even comment). I admit
to feeling intimidated about commenting, you're all so provocative in
your contributions. Having said that, I'm going to throw out some of
my musings.
Yeterday I was reading in the Abindon "Preaching the Revised COmmon
Lectionary, Year B, After Pentecost 2, p56, where the commentator(s)
talked about the picture lesson that Jesus drew for his disciples with
the little child. "He set a child among them. It is easy for us to
misperceive Jesus' message. In our world, where children are the
apples of the parents' eyes, the vitual princes and princesses of the
family, we are apt to miss Jesus' point. In the Greco-Roman world,
including the Jews, children were thought of as unbridled little bits
of chaos. [*doncha just love that phrase?!*] They were not considered
naive, innocent, sweet, and trusting; ancients regarded children as
terrible nuisances who were able to be disciplined and tolerated until
they became useful, reasonable adults. In Greco-Roman culture children
were without status, and they possessed no power to give them
position. There was no profit in taking in such (temporarily) useless
people."
The commentator then goes on to suggest, "God in Jesus Christ
demonstrates gracious acceptance of humans who have nothing about them
to lay a claim on God's generosity; but it is the character of God to
be gracious. Thus, God gives service to all, despite their absolute
inability to do anything for God's benefit."
If I remember from my seminary days, Mark's disciples won't really get
it until they can look back through the lens of the crucifixion and
resurrection. But that's what so great about Mark -- they are terribly
human, just like us. I love the "shotgun" story mentioned earlier ---
who of us hasn't been the one calling it, vying for that seat, or had
children do the same, or watched children of others do that? It is so
human to be wrapped up in ourselves and miss the big picture going on
around us -- but trying to see our part in it. Maybe it's because it's
what we can grasp at the moment, maybe the big picture is simply ...
too big, too overwhelming.
How many of us have sat with someone who's loved one is close to death
-- or already gone -- who heard them talk about the mundane, silly,
absurd things ... oh, I'll have to cancel her dentist appointment; oh,
someone will have to take care of picking up Sally from school; oh, I
have to get the dry cleaning.
Several years ago I was diagnosed with a brain tumor and in the short
time between diagnosis and surgery, I spent it whirling around setting
up the next several weeks so that my position would run as smoothly as
possible and I would leave few questions with my absence. I drew up a
new will, because it hadn't been revised in a while. I baked Christmas
cookies far ahead of time, because I didn't know if I'd be up to it
later and I sure didn't want to spoil anyone's Christmas. I took care
of the little nitty gritty details because frankly, as I look back now
I realize, I couldn't handle the big picture. It was easier to make a
list, do tasks, check stuff off. In my own mind, Jesus lets them keep
talking because I think he understands our human need to be consumed
by the things we think we can control in times of greatest fear and
earthshattering news. He said nothing, until walking into the house in
Capurnaum, then he reeled them in, once again making a point that they
may or may not get, but bringing them back to task again.
Just thoughts ... I'm so glad you're all here. I don't feel as
isolated.
MM in PA
I have enjoyed reading your contributions for the last several weeks.
I'm not up to speed on the rules and regs of "on line" discussions but
thought there was a good idea on the back of our ELCA bulletin cover
for this week concerning the gospel lesson. "If children are our
models and teahers, we are able to be comfortable with all that we do
not know, rather than proving all that we do know." It fits well with
my emphasis over the last several weeks that our call as Christians is
to be involved "in the struggle" instead of pretending to have all the
answers. Thanks again for your insights. NDHillbilly
To MM in Pa,
Thanks for your sharing. I am glad that you are with us and hope that
means your treatment for the brain tumor is going well.I pray that is
so. I appreciate your thoughts about Jesus not intervening in their
discussion, because of his awareness "of our human need to be consumed
by the things we think we can control, in the times of our greatest
fear and earthshattering news. SO TRUE! It's so easy for us to read
the scripture from where we are now, and project how the disciples
should have responded. My guess is we would probably respond in very
similar ways, were we in the same situation. We would be in the same
shock and question, "What is going to happen to us now?" I am often
grateful for Jesus' gentle teaching of me when I am going off in my
impulsive, impetuous, Peter like responses to what life dishes out. I
remember 2 years ago being told that my older brother and only sibling
had died suddenly of a heart attack @ 46. My first response was to
scream at the top of my lungs, "NO! NOT TOM!" I was supposed to preach
the next morning, and my colleague was on vacation. I had to arrange
someone to preach for me, and get my son and I packed to go home. It
wasn't until a few days later that I realized a whole series of events
that had been occurring over the previous couple of weeks, that God
had actually been preparing me for that moment. It is the classic,
"Hindsight is 20-20." But just as Peter had to grow into his
understanding of what Jesus being the Christ and the Messiah meant,
the disciples had to grow into what the implications for them would be
in Jesus' death. This is the second time he has told them he would
suffer and have to die, and they are still saying," But they didn't
understand what he was saying, and they were afraid to ask him."
Susan in Wa.
Dear Mike in Sunshine,
You and I need to get together. Your description of yourself in the
first paragraph of your response to me is also a perfect description
of me. I try to do those things, but I don't see that it makes any
difference, and it leaves me feeling angry and resentful. I'm sure
that's because my motives are not what they should be. I think one who
has Christlike motives does not keep score; they do what they do
because it meets needs and it glorifies God. It doesn't matter who
gets the credit. I haven't gone out and told people that I cleaned the
church because that would destroy the whole purpose of it. (I don't
know if that makes any sense or not. It's like, if you have to tell
people about it you might as well not do it.)
A disciple that I admire is Mother Theresa. I read once that someone
asked her how it was that she could do such great things. She
responded that she didn't do great things. She did little, ordinary
things with great love. I wish I could be like that. Creature Wayne
I doubt that Mother Theresa felt angry and resentful about doing her
ministry. She was probably glad for an opportunity to do something
good for someone and she didn't care at all about being recognized for
it. Is there anyone out there who does not consider her great in the
kingdom of God? Creature Wayne
I would guess many find themselves in the same situation as SJ in
Australia. Does the Mark text not present another angle besides "inclusivity
once more" from which to address the quagmire of controversial issues?
The arguement over "who is greatest" reminds me of our arguments about
"who is right" on this issue or that. Jesus stopped the arguing by
placing a child in their midst. Doing so not only presented a(non-status)
role model. Jesus call us into ministry with those who lacked status.
It's not about you and your positions! Or your rightness. It's about
them. And their need. Isn't this the essence of the Gospel?
Our bishops did a Jesus-like thing for us in the UMC a few years ago
by setting in our midst the Bishops' Appeal for Children and Poverty.
This is what it's about folks!
Granted, some of our arguments may be important. But without the
perspective that comes from having a child set in our midst, without
being starkly reminded of the Gospel, all other things can get
distorted. And much does seem downright petty as Mike in Sunshine
says.
A character in an Andre Gide novel says: "Some people you have to
allow to be right. It consoles them for not being anything else."
pHil in fog
Was it not Paul who said, "We are Babes in Christ?" The humility of
our Lord, who came to earth in human form, to walk amongst his people
- God amongst his creation of which, he so loves.
Would it therefore be unreasonable to accept a child into
Eucharist/Communion? Are we of this world, or in this world? Is a
child not in this world and did not the Lord come as a child?
True, there is very little if anything in the New Testament to suggest
that anyone other than adult males were present at that first
Communion, but the fact remains that the Lord, was radical when he
walked the streets all those centuries ago. Surely He suffered the
little children, as in he enjoyed their innocent outlook and presence?
The child, is viewed as being an emblem of purity in the corrupt,
political world.
Just look at politicians in the US & UK, baby kissing is a
prerequisite to gaining a vote! Thus whoever welcomes a child as
innocent and joy, alos welcomes the Lord, God and Saviour!
Just got back from lunch with a lawyer friend. I'm still munching on
something he said. He does not want to go to Church - anywhere -
because they are open to children "and all their noise".
The thought of a Church that did not welcome children absolutely
floored me.
That got me thinking in a practical mode, as well. When I returned
from lunch, I decided to take a tour of the building and see just how
"child friendly" we really are around here - with fresh eyes. It's
easy to forget what places in the church we send the kids for classes,
what they have to work with, etc. Do we truly welcome the children? We
keep the Sanctuary gorgeous.....
KHC
Re: accepting children into Eucharist/Communion. The Presbyterian
Church (USA) already makes provision for the inclusion of baptized
children at the Lord's Table. There are short, simple classes the
child may attend to learn of the meaning of the Sacrament. After that,
he/she may partake well before it is time for
Confirmation/Commissioning classes to begin.
KHC
Hey everybody,
I was inspired by the "shotgun" analogy and the comments of MZinWV.
Like so many of us I am still a long way from sermondom, but this
thought came to mind.
Many years ago, long before ordained ministry was part of my life, I
was in the Coast Guard boot camp. The day came to go down to the
firing range and learn to shoot. Now I had never handled a firearm in
my life and had no desire to start, but I did sign up for the service
so I had no choice. Most of the guys bragged about what great marksmen
they were and how they had learned to shoot at very young ages. A
competition arose as to who was going to shoot the best. Needless to
say, as a complete novice it was clearly understood that I wouldn't
even compare with the "experts."
When all was said and done, although I was not quite the "best," I
shot better than most, including the ones that knew they were so
great.
After we were done the shooting instructor pulled me aside and said,
"I can tell you've never shot before." "How?" I asked. "Because you
had no bad habits to unlearn or egos to overcome," he said. "You were
open and ready to recieve and learn from me and that is why you were
able to shoot so well."
I sometimes think about the disciples own egos and arrogance so
concerned about who was right that they just were not open and
recipetive to what JEsus had to offer.
Still pondering ...
DWR in NM
I think TB in MN is onto something--a contrast in different styles of
leadership--Jesus and the disciples. I appreciate all the comments,
but I think we can ere in sentimentalizing children. Don't get me
wrong, I love kids and we are inviting all the children in Sunday
School over the age of 10 to join the choir. The organist and I have
just written a commissioning that the kids will come in from Sunday
School to sing with the congregation. But "gentle Jesus, meek and
mild" reminds me of a critique that (although was overstated) had a
point I thought--in too many churches Xmas has become baby worship.
It's tough to be a kid, and it's sometimes tough dealing with kids.
They are usually brutally honest, direct, "in your face." They also
show their feelings, tell you where you stand, challenge your opinions
(I have also taught high school). Yes, I think we are talking about
two very different leadership styles here. Roberta
Would the children of Jesus's day be <in your face> kids like today's
kids are? I can't picture it.
Kids are kids whether are not they are culturally conditioned to "be
seen and not heard" as is the case in previous times and other
cultures. I think there is something about the human condition that
Jesus is getting at in his many references to children. They challenge
authority; ask embarrassing questions; do things "becasue they don't
know any better." Didn't Jesus do many of these things too? Look at
his conversations with the authorities. He questioned well-accepted
assumptions. Accepted people at face-value. Made people squirm. When I
was doing pulpit supply last spring, a woman in the congregation poked
my son during the service then openly chastised him in front of me
afterwards. "I'm ashamed of you," she said, "why weren't you singing
and paying attention like the other two boys beside you?" My son has
attention deficit--he's very religious but has problems sitting still.
The other two boys have never come back to the church. Unfortunatley,
I am now doing stated supply at this church. Quite a challenge to
preach this text this Sunday, eh? Roberta
First will be last - last first, whoever wants to save their life will
lose it - give and you shall receive.
All these principles impact upon our ability to relate to each other.
Relationships are about what we give to each other, and receive as a
result.
Issues of greatness, are the direct opposite. Effectively any debate
we have over greatness or position has to be based upon judgement. In
order to be the greatest we have to determine the criteria by which
that is to be judged. Another post touched on that issue.
Jesus reminds us that any type of human judgement is flawed by time
and space. We simply do not have, and cannot ever have all the factors
to determine this. We try to elect good leaders, and then we complain
when they exhibit the very flaws we discover in each of us.
The issue of homosexuality, I have discovered, is all about the
ability to disregard difference. I think Robin Greenwood from UK
identifies the major difference, when he argues the two theologies of
church. They are, and I think they impact upon this gospel as well.
1. The church is outside the world, and no one is saved until they are
brought into it. This allows us to set the rules for getting through
the gate.
2. The church is simply one aspect of the world, which is already
God's, and our role of saving is not so much to draw people out of the
world, but to reveal God already active in their lives. Yeast within
the dough scenario.
Jesus selected the disciples based upon their corporate giftedness,
not that one had skills or abilities superior to the others. Only in
combination with one another can we develop the kingdom of God, and no
one is excluded. A child was regarded as a person who had no knowledge
of God. No capacity to appreciate the deeper things of life. By
placing a child among them, Jesus was radically altering their
interpretation of their own role.
Another poster has already made my point. We are all children when it
comes to spirituality. We are babes in the faith. As Paul says, can we
truly appreciate the length, depth, heighth of God's love.
Greatest? Greatest of all sinners was how Paul described himself
towards the end of his life. I think I resonate with that.
Great gospel - great discussion. As always.
Regards, KGB in Aussie.
Robin Greenwood seems to be of the opinion that the church does the
saving, that salvation cannot and does not occur outside the church.
Is this a correct interpretation?
Anonymous poster,
Thank-you for the good question.
I have to admit to a reluctance to answer though, simply because I
have not read enough of Robin's work to feel confident to answer on
his behalf.
The other reason I baulk is because I simply do not know.
I was hoping by using a simplified explanation of his models of
mission, to explore the issue of inclusivity and exclusivity. I'm
sorry I used the word "saved", which I know evokes a wide range of
emotional responses in people. I would dare to guess that Robin would
be in favour of inclusivity, but again that would merely be my
opinion.
My purpose was to highlight what a different perspective it can
provide to issues depending upon where, you situate the church.
In the light of this week's gospel, the position of the disciples is
based upon the premise of an authoritarian church compared to a
servant church.
Thank-you again for the response, and the opportunity to think through
a few things again a little more clearly.
Regards, KGB
I umpired Little League baseball one year. I remember a close play at
the plate in one game. The catcher was a boy who lived across the
street from my parents and his family were members of our church.
(This was before I became a pastor.) The throw was on target. As the
runner slid into home plate the catcher tagged him above the knee, but
I thought the runner's foot hit the plate before the tag. I called the
runner "safe." The catcher stood up and began to protest the call. I
backed away because the ball was still alive and another runner was
rounding third and headed for the plate. He scored easily because the
catcher was still arguing my call.
After reading the scripture afresh this morning, I am struck by what
the disciples missed while they were arguing about who was the
greatest. The catcher's team lost that game while he argued the call.
The disciples apparently missed all that Jesus was teaching them
because they were arguing who was the greatest. I wonder what we miss,
concerning the kingdom of God, because we are arguing about something
else. I have put my sermon title in the bulletin as "While We Were
Arguing" Creature Wayne
In worship we learn the reversals in the kingdom of God: greatness is
not defined by wealth, power, or prestige. Rather, all people are
welcomed in the name of Christ. The children in our midst are a sign
of the hospitality that God offers to all persons regardless of their
status in the world. We go forth from the liturgy to be servants who
find greatness in humble service on behalf of those who are often
forgotten or rejected in society.
Jesus' teaching and action in this text are directed to the church
whenever it is seduced by the world's definition of greatness:
prestige, power, influence, and money. The antidote to such a concern
for greatness is servanthood.
Like the blind man in Mark 8, who when first asked by Jesus what he
sees, can only answer "I can see people but they look like trees
walking," the vision of the disciples takes time to open (all the way
to Pentecost). They just don't get it in Mark's gospel. First Peter,
and now the rest of them seem to miss the point. Jesus predicts his
dying and rising and instead of attending to the word, the disciples
change the subject. They wonder who is the greatest among them.
Obviously, they do sense something is afoot here in this event of
Jesus. They left their families and homes, after all. For them and us,
though, the shadow of the cross and suffering, service and welcome is
confounding. Like us, their sight seems distorted. They are looking at
the right place but they don't see clearly. They want to know how the
social ladder will be structured in the community of Jesus. They want
to know who shall be the greatest. In a world of status and net worth,
they wonder who will end up on top.
Jesus takes a little child in his arms to show them. As tall as their
kneecaps, limited vocabulary, unemployed, zero net worth, nobody in
this world, and yet here a sign of the way God organizes community.
Did the scales fall from their eyes? How about ours? However we choose
to organize our lives, we have this little child in the arms of Jesus
to remind us that God organizes things differently. In the topsy-turvy
vision of God's imagination, we may safely ignore no one - they just
might turn out to be the greatest.
Don't ask what you don't want to hear. That seems to be how the
disciples are operating in today's passage. Jesus identifies himself
to them as the "Son of Man." He leaves this strange term hanging in
the air, not explaining it in the least. It's an apocalyptic term that
could translate to "the Human One." Jesus begins to talk about the
signs of his betrayal, death, and resurrection. Again, he explains
nothing. Did the disciples have any idea what Jesus meant? We don't
know because they don't say a word in response to Jesus. They do not
allow themselves to be drawn into the mystery. Is it too hard? Too
frightening? Too different from their hopes and expectations?
The scene shifts to a house, a confined area where avoidance is harder
to get away with. Jesus draws the disciples in, doesn't let them stay
on the comfortable outside. He asks them about their conversations
with each other on the road. Silence again. Perhaps they sense that
their squabbling about positions of honour was incongruous with the
suffering and dying Jesus had been describing. Jesus sits down, as a
teacher about to offer a lesson in that day would have done. He calls
the twelve near to him and begins to explain things. Those who want to
have top billing need to take their place at the end of the line.
Then, as the prophets before him would also have done, Jesus embodies
his teaching with a startling gesture. He takes a child and puts her
"among them" - which is to say, in the centre. We can imagine that
children were loved by their families as much then as they are now,
but children did not have value and place in community in the society
of that time. In the Roman world of Mark's readership, children were
not honoured as pupils or citizens. To transfer the radical nature of
Jesus' placing a child at the centre of his teaching into today's
context, imagine substituting someone that society would rather not
bother with, someone just in the way of our getting to the important
people. Jesus brings the disenfranchised, the silenced ones from the
margins to the centre.
But even more remarkably, Jesus doesn't just place the child in this
radical place of honour. He takes her in his arms and embraces her,
which is to say that he welcomes the child. In the community of God's
sovereign realm, no one finds themselves left by Jesus outside the
picture window, pressing nose and mouth and face to peer in and see
what it might be like "if only." Jesus brings the child, who also
represents the silenced, the vulnerable, the disenfranchised, to the
centre and embraces this one, saying, "Welcome one such as this and
you welcome God." Mark does not tell us how the disciples responded to
this. Were they challenged? Comforted? Frightened? Disturbed? Elated?
Perhaps Mark realized that even more important than knowing how others
responded is responding ourselves, both his community and our own. In
what ways might we be both challenged and comforted by Jesus' welcome?
KHC,
When I first arrived at my first church, there were no children in
attendance although there were some in the congregation. There had
just been nothing for them for so long that their mom didn't bring
them. We started Sunday School and a Children's moment and they came.
The members of the church were thrilled. I decided that I could easily
pray and preach around them and that they would eventually learn
"church behavior." We started Children's Church so their mom could
relax and hear the sermon, not because the congregation or I were
having any major problems. That was 3 years ago and they have learned
about how to act (mostly) just because they've had the chance. I can
still pray and preach around them if necessary. I guess the point is
that having heard the sound of no children in a church, the sound of
children isn't too bad. I feel sorry for your friend. Mike in Soddy
Daisy,TN
Hey everybody,
I was inspired by the "shotgun" analogy and the comments of MZinWV.
Like so many of us I am still a long way from sermondom, but this
thought came to mind.
Many years ago, long before ordained ministry was part of my life, I
was in the Coast Guard boot camp. The day came to go down to the
firing range and learn to shoot. Now I had never handled a firearm in
my life and had no desire to start, but I did sign up for the service
so I had no choice. Most of the guys bragged about what great marksmen
they were and how they had learned to shoot at very young ages. A
competition arose as to who was going to shoot the best. Needless to
say, as a complete novice it was clearly understood that I wouldn't
even compare with the "experts."
When all was said and done, although I was not quite the "best," I
shot better than most, including the ones that knew they were so
great.
After we were done the shooting instructor pulled me aside and said,
"I can tell you've never shot before." "How?" I asked. "Because you
had no bad habits to unlearn or egos to overcome," he said. "You were
open and ready to recieve and learn from me and that is why you were
able to shoot so well."
I sometimes think about the disciples own egos and arrogance so
concerned about who was right that they just were not open and
recipetive to what JEsus had to offer.
Still pondering ...
DWR in NM
