What would have been more frightening to the disciples ... the storm, or the dead silence after the storm? What's more frightening to us? The storms of our lives or the apparent silence of God? Not sure where these thoughts are headed, but the pondering has started. shalom, HS in ON
I am one who doesn't write sermons until Sat. night before. However, I woke after preaching yesterday and just wanted to see the text for the 22nd which is when I will preach again. I spend many Hours at MD Anderson Pediatric unit with my daughter. she has cancer. I watch the families in all sorts of situations. All of us living in the midst of a terrible storm. But I can tell you, it takes something like 5 minutes to know who is leaning on their faith and who is panicing in the boat. This isn't just a story. Ours is not the only storm facing the world. I see this same situation in the schools, in the work place.. where ever there are storms...you can see Christ at work. How cool.
Tammy in Texas
Hi, gang!
Not preaching this week -- instead, we are attending parent orientation at the University of Kansas where our daughter will be a freshman in a few weeks, then packing up whatever we left behind the last time we made the drive (including the dog!) and driving the second car to Ohio.
Have a great week, see you in the discussion for the 29th.
Blessings, Eric in OH (flying to KS, driving from KS, etc.)
Why all this fear? The disciples before and after the resurrection seem not to be able to free themselves from their anxiety.
Why do we need to hear again and again our Lord's call to live not longer in fear but in faith?
Again, is this not the difference between living our lives as a spectator of our salvation and being in the sacred play of our redemption.
tom in ga
Talk about storms I'm still reeling from the one I was in this morning. If not the worst very close to it(Sermon I Preached for Fathers & Trinity)The boat sunk but I made it to shore to venture out again this comming week. I know all about storms at sea in a small boat especially at night. I used to shrimp at night down on the Gulf coast and worked on the seafood docks just before comming back into the ministry. I've been in some doozies but none like this morning. God is so merciful and gracious
He is letting me try again this week. Sorry for the ramblings.
Harold in Alabama
Harold..
You may feel as though your boat sank but you never know what good God will work even through this. Best of all, you have the courage to go out on the water again. I often remember the saying "we are not called to be successful, only faithful."
Shalom,
DSinNJ
I have spent every summer of my life at a family lake house in Michigan. The whole summer as a child and now just two wonderful weeks. For some reason the storms there blow in, most of the time, from across the lake. It gets dark and then you can see the rain and wind march across the water. Then it hits...the wind and rain and lightening... the storm. The most amazing thing is the clearing after the storm. You step out to see what just happened and the sky has this yellow hue and the lake that was just a furry is now still. There is this strange, welcoming sense.
This strange, welcoming sense is what the disciples felt, it must have a combination of the stillness and an amazement at what had just happened. Following a storm in your life when you have turned to Jesus, don't you experience this same feeling; strange, warm, welcoming, quiet?
If you have experienced this, you could help your parishioners feel the calm of natures storm and then the calm of God's storm. This Gospel has the potential for you to use many descriptive and vivid words that will help your congregationn feel... the storm and the calm.
Peace, Jim in FL
Here is a story, as I remember it and don't remember where I got it. You might title it, "I can sleep when the wind blows." You see, there was this farmer who needed help. He placed an ad in a local paper, but did not have much response. Finally one day a man stopped by the farm looking for work. The farmer said that he did need a helper. The farmer asked if he had ever worked on a farm. The man replied, "no." Have you ever worked with animals? The man replied, "no." The farmer said, "Well, what are you able to do?" The man replied, "I can sleep when the wind blows." Having no other prospects, the farmer decided to hire this man. Several weeks passed and then one night there was a terrible storm. The farmer woke up. He went down the hall to his helper's room, but found him sound assleep. He decided he could check on things himself. He went out to find the gates securely locked. The barn doors had been secured. The animals were bedded down. Finally, as he saw these things, he recalled the words of his hired hand, "I can sleep when the wind blows."
We might want to ask ourselves and our church members, "Can you sleep when the wind blows?"
PH in OH
It is always a little risky to draw analogies from the gospels, but for me the storm is life. Just like last week the Trinity describes the relationship of life, this week Mark presents us with an incident that illustrates Christ's influence upon the life that we live.
I have to believe the gospel message is relevant to our current existence otherwise we are simply a faith, constructed around events of the past.
Life is a storm. One continuous journey of turmoil. From one side of the lake to the other, we are forever journeying.
The boats we construct are our feeble attempts to try and control this life. They stand for all those miniscule securities that we depend upon to keep us safe.
But they are so flimsy, so fragile that in the midst of the storm, we are often afraid.
In these times, it is only our faith in the spiritual life, that Christ represents that enables us to survive, to cope. Christ calms the storm, but it is through the inner spiritual gift of the Holy Spirit, that in the midst of life's most tempestous times, are we able to remain hopeful, and confident, that we are not abandoned.
Only faith, (the direction we place upon our life) that determines how we ride out the storm.
Life is stormy, unpredictable and sometimes even totally wild, and yet, with the influence of Christ upon our lives, we are enabled to find peace and tranquility amidst the storm. The wonder and mystery of this gospel, is not so much that Christ can calm the storm, but rather, why does he do it.
It is because he loves us so much that he offers us this grace.
Have a great week everyone.
KGB in Aussie.
I came across a saying somewhere - don't recall the source, but it relates to this passage, especially if you think of storm in a metaphorical sense. It is - "Sometimes God calms the storm, and sometimes God lets the storm rage and calms his child." We can't always calm the "storms" - they happen. What we do is trust God thru them. JIm in CT.
I came across a saying somewhere - don't recall the source, but it relates to this passage, especially if you think of storm in a metaphorical sense. It is - "Sometimes God calms the storm, and sometimes God lets the storm rage and calms his child." We can't always calm the "storms" - they happen. What we do is trust God thru them. JIm in CT.
As of July 1st, I will retire from pastoral ministry in the United Methodist Church. Sunday will be my retirement reception and I will preach my second to last Sermon as a active pastor in the UM church.
During my latter years of the pastorate, I've realized that unless I could see the big specks in my own I eyes, I was less effective in serving others. My favorite song "If I can help somebody, as I pass along" began to name the "somebody" as me first.
When ever I exegete pericopes in Mark, I reflect on the human aspect of Jesus. My above thoughts on "somebody" has helped me also see that in this gospel story, Jesus calms the story first before talking with the disciples. He can not communicate with the disciples, until he has declared "Peace be still." This action aids Jesus as well as the disciples. Oh sure, he could have rested during the storm, but not during the storm and the frightened Disciples.
Shalom
pasthersyl
Mark4:38 But he was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke him up and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?"
The cry of terror in the midst of difficulty opens the way for grace. The cry itself changes the course of history.
"Israel’s history is shaped and interpreted as an experience of cry and rescue. Thus the form became for Israel a way of self-understanding in the world, a way of self-understanding not different form the theological and liturgical understandings of the Christian community. It is correct to see that the actions of Jesus are understood as God’s mighty saving deeds in response to a cry of distress. A variety of voices “cry out” to him in distress: The blind, the demon-possessed, Peter. Each is introduced with the verb “cry out (kraso) and each asks for compassion. Jesus’ saving actions of feeding, healing, forgiving, cleansing, and raising are saving responses to situations of distress. Thus Jesus’ kingship is presented as God’s response to the world’s lament, even as David’s kingship is response to the Philistine crisis. The church’s resurrection faith is the same as Israel’s petition and praise, the sure conviction that he hears and sees and acts decisively. Yahweh is the one who is attentive and does respond." <Walter Brueggemann, From Hurt to Joy, From Death to Life>
tom in ga
Hello DPS'ers -
There is a wonderful song written by Tony Wood and Kevin Stokes and performed by Scott Krippayne on his CD Wild Imagination (Spring Hill Music Group). The chorus is this: "Sometimes he calms the storm with a whispered "peace be still." He can settle any sea but it doesn't mean he will. Sometimes he holds us close and lets the wind and waves go wild. Sometimes he calms the storm and other times he calms the child." It's a beautiful song and works so well with this text. I may even play it in worship on Sunday - it's summer after all!!
revpbc in AK
I am reminded of Dame Julian of Norwich's wonderful quote: All will be well will be well. Our cry is ALWAYS answered with rescue from God/Christ - even when the sea seems untameable, we are held in God's loving arms. Balthasar says somewhere that by placing difficulties in our way he invites us to call out to him therefore renewing the covenant once again.
tom in ga
Ah, another thought from Balthasar:
Our fear or anxiety in the powerful waves of a storm is only a subjective feeling - what is objective is the promise of Christ that he will be with us until the end of time.
tom in ga
Much of the mainline church is experiencing a terrible storm. The ravages of sexual abuse upon the innocent children, financial woes that are causing denominational downsizing, failure to attract the 20 to 40 year old crowd. We are in the midst of a great storm. It is up to the leaders of the churches to seek out the comfort, and/or guidance of Christ.
The question Jesus poses is an authentic one; "Why are you afraid, have you still no faith?"
We just completed our Annual Conference (UMC) and we tend to want to act afraid and without faith. We have radically cut back the leadership (which may or may not be a good thing)but what troubles me most is the fear of risking something new or we might lose the few people we have left in the pews. One of the cornerstone churches in major city was closed this year. It had been a beacon and headquarters for many mission efforts for a long time. What appears to have brought it down was a furnace that caused great damage. Another major church in another major city, that was once the catherdral of Methodism, has just gone to half time, which means whoever is appointed there will not receive health insurance (a disadvantage for many of us "senior" clergy). One church went from 3/4 time to 1/2 time just so they could avoid paying the health insurance costs. The stories go on outside of the sessions as well as during the Conference.
There is a storm raging, let us call upon Christ!
A W-G rocky coast Me.
When Jesus asked them where was their faith we need to remember that He had told them lets go to the other side that they needed the faith to believe that if Jesus said we are going that they would get their one way or another. The storm dosen't matter if we truly believe that He is with us and will see us through no matter what comes against us.Last year when I was told I was comming to my present church I didn't like it one iota. I actually cried and begged my DS that if there were any way possible
please don't send me here but her mind was made up any way right after that first phone call a sudden calm came over my emotions and a calm voice deep inside said it dosen't matter where you serve me as long as you are serving me everything will be fine. This past year has been one of the most stress free and fullfilling years of my ministry and I begged the DS to let me stay. It dosen't matter that I have five churches and half the time one of them cannot pay their share of the salary. Nothing bothers me any more because I know who is in the boat with me. What bothers me is when I fail Him like last Sunday.
Harold in Alabama
Harold of Alabama
I am wondering why you appear to be agonizing over last Sunday's sermon. I know such feelings, and wonder and often I find it is my pride and not my faithfulness that causes me such pain. Often when I calm down, I realize that God can use me even in my worse "performance." You are not completely clear, whether t is your own take on the sermon, or a parishioner's complaint. What ever the case, I've found myself praying for some peace to comw ro you.
Shalom
pasthersyl
Harold in Alabama-if your sermon was true to the word, it's God's word and God's word will bring about what God intends. It's a bit like planting bulbs. My gardening effort shows no results for months, then one spring day a crocus appears. Quit beating yourself up, life is tough enough without guilt tripping. Sue in Ohio
I'm looking to approach this from the viewpoint of Jesus saying, "Let's go across to the other side." Whenever we're called to move away from where we are we'll encounter storms. But I'm perplexed as to how to end this. What was on the other side? Gentiles? Why does the story end with the calming of the storm? Did they make it to the other side? Is the importance the merely the journey?
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Guy in GA
Wow Guy in GA!
Chapter 5 has Jesus and the Disciples arriving in Gerasenes and the episode of the man living among the tombs, and possessed by "legions". Jesus was not welcomed there. I'm beginning to think we need to worry less about our personal protections, and quit being afraid, and knowing that God is with us, expect anything.
Shalom
pasthersyl
Pasthersyl In answere to your question. At the 9:30 service The sermon was most powerful but at 11:00 I decided to add stuff about the Fathers into it and messed up thats all. I know what the Lord can do with my messes. One Sunday when I first started preaching. The sermon was so bad In my eyes I just prayed for a place to shut up and go home. At the close of the service with no altar call at all one of the choir members came to the altar to rededicate
her life to the Lord so I opened the altar and the members were two deep across the altar weeping and praying. I'm real comfortable this week with this storm. I'm expecting the Holy Spirit to blow in and change some lives.
Harold in Alabama
In the Episcopal lectionary we (optionally) continue through the story of Legion and the pigs. Now, I find that a really funny story--all those poor crazy pigs, but I'm able to connect these two stories.
In stilling the storm, Jesus shows he can calm anything outside of ourselves. In healing the possessed man, he show that he can calm anything inside of ourselves.
With the two together, there is nothing for us to fear (except the awe-full fear/respect of God's power).
Mamma Helen
Mark 4:36 And leaving the crowd behind, they took him with them in the boat, just as he was.
QUESTION: What might this mean "just as he was?"
It is an intersting phrase in light of the upcoming storm. Does this mean without expectation? Without projection?
Help!
tom in ga
pasthersyl - in your retirement, I hope you still have the inclintion to share your insights with us on dps.
Harold in Alabama - One Monday while I was in seminary my friend Jim asked me how the sermon had gone the day before. "Awful", I said. "I felt as though the words slid over the pulpit and just flopped lifelessly on the floor." "You mean," he frowned at me as he placed his hands on his hips, "that all you gave them was five loaves and two fish?"
I keep a picture of loaves and fish in my study as a heartening reminder
kbc in sc.
Mamma Helen
In tying the two stories together think about this:
The Demoniac's need was so great that Jesus was willing to cross the sea in a storm to get to him.
Harold in Alabama
Harold in Alabama,
I'm reluctant to even offer some words of comfort, considering that they often sound so condescending.
When Jesus tells us not to judge, it includes sermons, or any aspect of our ministry. The rich tapestry of life often reveals to me that we essentially look only at life from the reverse side.
Even if your words were unhelpful, I have found that most times that is to assist myself in my own expression of the gospel.
More often than not, we learn more from those we dislike or find unacceptable than we do from those we value. From these occasions we discover, what not to do.
You are of value, and simply being who you are, determines your worth. Not your ability or your skill or your articulate grasp of the truth. This is how you most effectively preach the gospel, and proclaim the Word of God.
Keep on.
Regards,
KGB
For many years I have seen this passage as the Pastoral Care story. The disciples, having seen Jesus work wonders, did not ask for anything except his concern. "Don't you care . . . ?" How often we doers and fixers forget that our parishoners have their own answers, by God's grace, and need our pastoral care to help them through.
chap in ME
Tom in GA, I took the "just as he was" to be an indication that Jesus was "still" in the boat from Mark 4:1. Although I am far from being a Greek scholar I think it may be responsible to translate this part as "And letting the crowd go they took him as he was in the boat." I hope this helps.
The questions that keeps nagging me is:
1 - Why did Jesus ask them if they had no faith? When we enter the storms of life does it not indicate that we have faith when we call on Jesus?
2 - What voice did Jesus use to ask them if they still lacked faith? Was he angry, disspointed, dissinterested, or what? Does the way we hear the voice of Jesus indicate our view of God and does it indicate how we are to interpret Jesus asking the question?
Any insights would be helpful. Thanks, Rock in MI
Tom in GA, I took the "just as he was" to be an indication that Jesus was "still" in the boat from Mark 4:1. Although I am far from being a Greek scholar I think it may be responsible to translate this part as "And letting the crowd go they took him as he was in the boat." I hope this helps.
The questions that keeps nagging me is:
1 - Why did Jesus ask them if they had no faith? When we enter the storms of life does it not indicate that we have faith when we call on Jesus?
2 - What voice did Jesus use to ask them if they still lacked faith? Was he angry, disspointed, dissinterested, or what? Does the way we hear the voice of Jesus indicate our view of God and does it indicate how we are to interpret Jesus asking the question?
Any insights would be helpful. Thanks, Rock in MI
Rock in MI,
I wonder if Jesus asked the question about faith because the disciples waited so long before coming to him? I know he was tired and they wanted to let him sleep, but it seems to me that a part of our problem is that we let things go on for too long before approaching the One whom we know will help.
The other part of it is that their words seem to me to be accusatory. We come too late, and we blame the one we come to- does that make sense?
GFinSC
GFinSC
I thought about the waiting too long to call on Jesus option because I am all too prone to do that myself. I think it may be a viable answer but then I wonder at which point do a bunch of sea farring fishermen think that a storm is rough enough to call out to Jesus? With the first drop of rain or the first gail of wind? Maybe ten minutes into it or twenty? As a former mechanic I don't think to pray for a mechanical problem with my car until I realize that I cannot fix the problem.
I've also thought that the disciples words were accusatory. I tend to think this might be the case but I'm not sure how to varify it textually. In the Greek the question that they ask Jesus is preceeded with the Ou not the Mn which indicates that they expected that he did care that they were perishing. Even so I still think that the question is accusatory by simply being asked.
Good thoughts! Thank you, Rock in MI
Early on in the dialogue Tom in GA wrote:
"Again, is this not the difference between living our lives as a spectator of our salvation and being in the sacred play of our redemption."
That's taken me into the metaphor of actor/audience, and the assurance the actor has in the author getting him through the danger at hand. See? The script says, right here on pg. 34, "The storm passes..." We weave lots of improv into the story, but if we stay in character, we move the plot toward God's Kingdom ending. Through it all, the actor knows how it turns out, even if his character is "written out", because he or she trusts the author. That's faith. Rick in MO
Rock in MI,
Brilliant questions!! I'm glad I came back to the discussion this week.
I think your insights illustrate how far Christianity has moved from theologically sound practices.
For many, simply calling on Jesus to help them in every (hard) situation, is supposed to illustrate their "faith", not realising that it may actually indicate their lack of.
I intend to give this a little more thought. I think it bears teasing out.
Thank-you again for raising them. They have certainly stirred my interest for this gospel anew.
Regards,
KGB
As we enter this season of Ordinary Time / Season after Pentecost, we ought not loose sight of what we have just experienced in the Paschal Mystery. It seems to me that a basic question is whether or not we have appropriated the Paschal Mystery into our bones and thus feel safe in the midst of a storm because we know that Christ is with us (even if he is asleep), or we continue to feel fear and anxiety because we have not fully appropriated the mystery of our salvation.
tom in ga
KGB,
I'm glad that my questions cause you to see the gopel anew but I wonder what you mean by your thoughts of calling on Jesus as a lack of faith? I'm not trying to say that at all but I'm still intrigued by the concept. If you could elaborate why calling on Jesus might not be a Theologically sound practice, it would be helpful.
Thanks, John in MI
We who live along the gulf coast are well aware of the powerful impact of storms which can threaten to destroy property & lives. At least, the hurricanes that threaten us from time to time do allow for some warning. We have wonderful technology from the national weather service, and we can flee from the wrath of the storm. Jesus and his disciples had no such advance warning. Storms of fierce proportions can affect the Sea of Galilee with little warning, I am told, and their boats were so small. Sometimes we know the precarious feeling of the disciples in the boat, don't we?
The winds and the waves seem so strong, and we are vulnerable, weak, and afraid. However, the story is not so much about the ferocity of the storms as it is about the presence and power of the One who can calm the storms. Eugene Peterson's paraphrase of the bible, The Message, offers this wonderful rendering of this reality: "He told the wind to pipe down and said to the sea, 'Quiet! Settle down!' The wind ran out of breath; the sea became smooth as glass."
What a rich phrase! "The wind ran out of breath!" All the storms that threaten to engulf and overwhelm us are at his beck and call.
The story serves to remind us:
1) Of the fragile nature of our human condition
2) Of the peace Jesus shows here and offers to us
3) Of the awesome power of Jesus to change things
Gary - from Pascagoula
Mark 4:37 A great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that the boat was already being swamped.
It is a crazy thought but is this the "wind" that blows where it wills in last weeks Gospel? Is this the Spirit that will undo us before we are remade? Is not God's presence threatening to the known, the expected, the familiar? Are we truly ready to receive what God wishes to give us?
tom in ga
Is God asleep at the wheel? (We have more car experience than boat experience in central Montana)
Sometimes it certainly feels like it. Even the footprints in the sand types feel abandoned sometimes. The insight I have when I look back at my own storms, however, is that they are not as bad as they seemed at the time. The boat is sound and designed to weather such storms. Can I get too upset if God doesn’t share my level of panic?
Sermon structure: 1. to examine our storms and feelings of panic and fear. 2. to affirm our trust and faith in a God who is in the same boat with us. 3. to challenge people to look for those riding out storms and bring them words of assurance and comfort that the storm will run out of breath.
The term, "Gathering Storm" was refered to in the book, "United Methodism @ Risk. The book is subtitled a wake-up call. It says United methodism is being taken over and it documents specific movements and purpose statements of leaders of these movements.
Reading this book produced a storm within me. I returned from annual conference feeling terrified, overwhelmed with lament for what is happening in United Methodism. What a perfect time this would be to have Jesus calm the storm! I get so upset with myself for feeling a lack of faith that this particular storm will be stilled. I want to prayerfull hold a vison of this storm turning to peace. Can someone help me to see the Prince of Peace bringing peace to this situation? Manzel
Manzel
Your wods get at how I'm looking at this passage. It is how I look at the storms of life, (incuding those letters, emails and conversation surrounding our annual conference, and I'm sure it was similar to your experience with your annual conference) I find myself hearing Jesus say, "what are you doing and to what are you reacting? Then I realize that I have watched Jesus still the storm, and know the storm is stilled in myself. When reading your contribution, I experience that as possibly happening with you. The more of us that can respond to the calmed storm, the more the storm will be calmed.
Shalom
pasthersyl
GFinSC,
As I have contemplaited further about the accusatory nature of the disciples' question I think you're onto something. If I ask the questions of Jesus, "don't you care that children are dying of hunger, don't you care that children are being sexually abused, don't you care that I have MS and I am scared about the my future health?" The answer that Jesus would give is "of course I care."
However, the point of the passage seems not that I will have the storms in my life quieted but that I am to ask of myself "who is this man that even the wind and the waves obey him?" I should "fear a great fear" when I realize who my Lord is - the true Son of God (Matt. 14:33).
I will meditate upon it further.
Rock in MI
It seems funny to me that the disciples woke Jesus up in fear, yet they clearly didn't expect him to solve their problem in the way he did. They didn't wake him thinking, "Jesus can make this storm go away," or they wouldn't have been so surprised when the wind and waves obeyed him.
So it makes me wonder, what is it that we're looking for when we cry out to God? Maybe sometimes we don't know, and certainly we need different things at different times. The disciples evidently needed to see the scope of Jesus' authority, whereas we, who have the Bible, expect or want that sort of big miracle and often don't get it. People look for quick and easy solutions from Jesus, and when they don't get them, it must mean God doesn't care or you're not faithful enough, etc.
Anyway, this is what it might mean to call upon Jesus with a lack of faith. We may have one thing in mind for him to do for us, when what he actually does is something different altogether. And in our case, the miracle may require something of us to have it happen. Like David facing down Goliath, armed with faith. Holler at Jesus, tell him how you feel, but don't assume he's not already handling it.
Too long already--LM in S. Texas
Just thought of something mind blowing. In reading the discussions about Jesus asking where is their faith. Just maybe jesus expected them to use their own faith to command the storm to cease. If you have the faith of a grain of mustard seed you can move mouuntains, The things I do greater things you will do, This was one of the hard lessons they never understood until after pentecost.
Harold in Alabama
Rock in MI,
To respond to your question of me, I think LM in S. Texas and Harold in Alabama, (19/6/03) are beginning to get onto my wavelength.
As soon as we reach a point where the enormity of the situation gets too much for us, we claim God doesn't care or somehow God is absent (asleep), but it is often in the storms that we are most required to exercise faith.
While things are going along great, to have faith is easy. It is the times of the cross that true faith is exhibited.
My experience has been that many Christians are "christian" only as long as everything is going well. They follow Christ only in the hope that it will make their life easy. Desiring what I think Augustine termed "cheap grace"
As soon as the storm threatened their life the disciples called on Jesus, when in reality they should have seen his sleeping as evidence that everything was under control. We regard "storms" as life threatening, when in reality they are the means be which life is stirred up and change is brought. They are a natural example of the death/resurrection experience.
I am constantly reminded that Jesus didn't promise his disciples an easy life, but rather a "cross". Hence my statement that I believe, we have a generation of Christians who have misconstrued their membership of the kingdom of God, as safe passage through life, and who consider that the Spirit of God should only bring peace and tranquility, and not turmoil. People, who think that as soon as their life is a little out of control that their God is somehow not working because their safety is not so assured. These same "faithful" people call on (demand) Jesus to make it all right again, without any preparation for changing their own position.
I think your insights are closer to the truth. Jesus does calm the storm, but then says, "If you truly had faith in God you would not need to call upon me, because your own fear of death would no longer exist."
I think there is just so much more to this subject, but I will leave it there for others to take up. I hope I have explained my own thinking well enough.
Thank-you again for sparking my interest in this fascinating gospel experience, as recorded by Mark. I've not been so enthused for some time by a new insight.
Regards to all,
KGB
LM in S. Texas, & KGB
Thank you (KGB) for elaborating on your point - I agree with your thesis. I admit that I prefer the times of easy faith and I know that it is in times when there seems to be no other way that I see God move in ways that I did not anticipate or expect.
This expectation that LM in S. Texas has rooted out of the text is quite intriguing. I think that he is correct when he comments that the disciples never expected Jesus to do what he did. I like his question about what the disciples expected anyway and his statement that we "Biblical" Christians expect the same type of miracles that we read about in the texts. it is an intereting conept that we are so expectant and then dissappointed simply because we have the Scriptures.
Rock (or John) in MI
Have all of you checked out Dorothy Soelle's book "Suffering" - I haven't looked at it yet, but it seem to me that she addresses all these issues.
tom in ga
I had an experience on the Sea of Galilee some years ago. I was with a tour group in which clergy on the tour were asked to take turns offering devotions. My turn was as we crossed the sea of Galilee on a boat where I shared one of the stories of Jesus calming the storm. The Sea of Galilee often experiences sudden winds which accelerate down the narrow valleys from the Golan Heights. That happened as I was sharing the story. It started to blow and rain. When I got to the end of the story it suddenly cleared. It was a very strange experience.
These past two years have been stormy in my life. This past December I lost my wife to ovarian cancer following an illness of a little over a year, which came on very suddenly. I found myself getting accusatory - "Don't you care?" But then have sensed again and again the peaceful presence of Christ who I think of as the "eye" the peaceful presence in the storm.
Chuck in WI
Chuck in WI,
I'm sorry about the loss of your wife. I'm going to respond with a thought and I hope that my response does not sound trite and/or cause offense - please forgive me if it does.
Looking at the storm that the disciples faced next to the loss of a spouse seems to make the disciples out to be whiners. A couple of years ago I got sick and we thought that I had a brain tumor. We braced ourselves for the storm of my demise expecting that I should only have a few months left to live. I did not plead with God to spare my life. I was fine with the idea of dying, I did not much like the idea of leaving behind a grieving spouse (no children) but I was fine with whatever God had planned for my life. It was my wife who struggled the worst storm of that ordeal. I often think that had it been her that was sick, instead of me, that it may have worked the other way around. The thought of loosing her scares me terribly - much much more than my own physical death by drowning at sea.
Thank you for sharing - it preaches to me.
Rock in MI
But he was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke him up and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?" (Mark 4:38)
A long time after that, the king of Egypt died. The Israelites were groaning under the bondage and cried out; and their cry for help from the bondage rose up to God. God heard their moaning, and God remembered His covenant with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. God looked upon the Israelites, and God took notice of them. (Exodus 2:23-25)
The Egyptians dealt harshly with us and oppressed us; they imposed heavy labor upon us. We cried out to the lord, the God of our fathers, and the Lord heard our plea and saw our plight, our misery, and our opression. The Lord freed us from Egypt by a mighty hand .... (Deuteronomy 26:6-8)
And now from Dorothee Soelle's Suffering, Fortress Press, 1975:
The first step towards overcoming suffering is, then to find a language that leads out of the uncomprehended suffering that makes one mute, a language of lament, of crying, of pain, a language that at least says what the situation is.
By giving voice to lament one can intercept and work on his suffering within the framework of communication. The hopelessness of certain forms of suffering ... can be endured where the pain can stil be articulated.
The sufferer ... must find a way to express and identify his suffering ... If people cannot speak about their affliction they will be destroyed by it, or swallowed up by apathy. It is not important where they find the language or what form it takes. But people’s lives actually depend on being able to put their situation into words, or rather, learning to express themselves, which includes the nonverbal possibilities of expression. Without the capacity to communicate withothers there can be no change. To become speechless, to be totally without any relationship, that is death.
What is decisive is who the person’s dialogue partner is. Christ or mammon, or his hown vitality. “The result of prayer ... depends on whom he is speaking with,that is, in a Christian sense, who his ‘God’ is.” If people experience their life as destined by fate, they are dealing with the mute God, and their prayer can only amount to resigning themselves to their lot.” (Simone Weil)
tom in ga
It's been a few days since I stopped in, and I'd like to respond to a few things.
If the fact that Jesus is asleep during the storm is a sign that things are already under control, does that mean that we are also to let everything take care of itself and go to sleep alongside him? Sometimes during a storm, a ship (boat) just has to batten (sp?) down the hatches, and sit back and hope that it will pass, and if it doesn't, and we perish, then so be it. What do you think?
Does anyone know the details of the charter boat that recently went out into the storm and didn't quite make it?
I saw the movie "Bruce Almighty" last week, and his basic question is the same as that of the disciples, "God, don't you care?" and his accusation is the same as what has appeared in this discussion, "God, you're not doing your job."
Pulling together the lesson from 2nd Corinthians, "Now is the day of salvation," and Harold from Alabama's comment on the disciples also having the power to calm the storm, this might be a word of good news for those who suffer today, if we can encourage people to sit up and take notice of how they HAVE THE POWER TO bring salvation to a suffering neighbor TODAY.
Going to title my message "Rough Seas," followed by the hymn "Eternal Father, Strong to Save." Still have a long way to go to bring it all together, though.
Michelle
There is so much good and healing in feeling what we feel--we preachers always tell people to look at the Psalms when they feel guilty about getting mad at God. So it may be that the important thing about the disciples here is not that they didn't know for sure that Jesus could calm the storm, nor that they sound self-centered. The important thing is that they cried out to the one they knew to be powerful. Even if they didn't know anything else, they knew to do that, and by the grace of God, that's often enough.
Laura in S. Texas (formerly LM, but just clearing up the gender!)
Tom
If I may add a late comment about the phrase "just as he was"... I took it to mean that he was exhausted from teaching all day in the sun, unwashed; his armpits smelled. He issued one directive as to where they ought to be headed and then collapsed in the stern on a cushion. It says something to me about the humanity of Jesus, just as the second part of the story speaks of his divinity.
JKS
Just a thought,
When my children were small and a big storm would blow through at night, little feet would run down the hall and look at their daddy and I in terror, wanting us to calm the storm. They would jump between us in the bed and snuggle in (always with a foot or elboy in my ribs) and fall fast asleep. The storm still raged but they found safty with us holding them. Maybe that is the "why are you afraid? Have you still no faith?" comes from. I don't think that Christ was implying that the disciples could have stilled the storm, but rather, that they should have known, after all they had seen, that they were safe in the presence of Christ no matter how rough the storm is. I have found that miricle of Peace in my life. As our daughter struggles with he disease, Christ has given me that. It ain't going away, but I know..and am helping my daughter know, that no matter what, we are safe in the arms of God. Just some personal thoughts.
tammy in Texas
Could it be that the disciples, (just being new to being followers of Jesus), weren't really as grounded in their faith as we think they should?
Also could it be possible that the storm came up as learning experience of faith for them?
In reading all the above I find that there are many wonderful and thought provking comments. I thank you all for them as I know they will help me with this weeks sermon.
God bless you all.
In His grip,
Rev. Chris AR
Guy in GA-
Thanks! That's just what I've beent rying to angle towards. I've been so focused on the storm itself that I ignored the circumstances surrounding it! Going to the other side is the point when we encounter stomrs - fits right in with my sermon series, "Core Values vs. Customs."
Thanks - this truly desperate, very tired, and angry at some congregants needed a sermon boost that would preach grace rather than letting the less-than-graceful attitude leak into the sermon.
Sally in GA
To Guy in GA,
You are on the right track! In Mark, there are
SIX sea crossings, and there are Gentiles on the
other side of the sea! This is Mark's presentation
of the universal, world wide scope of the ministry
of Jesus. Go for it!
Oklahoma Irishman
Chuck in WI,
I lost my wife to ovarian cancer in March of 2002. I would like to connect with you through Email if you are willing. Please contact me at ripper@vaxxine.com
RevRip, Ontario
PH,
I know, I know, I'm the last to tell you, but we LATE NIGHT SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIALS... enjoyed your story. I'm hoping it "will preach in Fargo" tomorrow! ;?)
God's best to you and all the rest of you too,
pulpitt in ND
Hi there,
Last minute addition (yes I'm still writing for tomorrow's sermon!) - I just thought that it is significant that Jesus is in the stern of the boat...the place where the steering and propelling often takes place. Appropriate don't you think?
EMD, Ontario
pasthersyl
I appreciate your "wisdom" and am glad you share(d) it! I'm "half way" to my retirement. I will retire in about 25 years. It's nice to know others struggle as I do to be "REAL" from the pulpit and to make life authentic for myself as well as my listeners. Thanks again!
One of my best helpers in the ministry is a retired UM Clergy who was also a DS at one time. My UM Brothers... meet on Tuesday... we are all brothers... as the Bishop hasn't appointed a woman to our "Ministry Team" a new paradigm for ministry in the Dakotas. I hope you'll continue as a "regular on the DPS site" even after you "officially" retire!
Thanks again... and God's best to you in your "retirement" - going out to pastor! ;?)
pulpitt in ND
Hey all,
My sermon is in my head. not sure it will find it's way to paper. But know that each time I read through your thoughts, I am challenged to keep listening to the Holy Spirit. You are being used and I thank God for it! May tomorrow help to calm the storm within the souls of those who are there too hear. We all know, we are only a tool! out for a week at camp so will miss you greatly!
tammy in Texas
Tammy in Texas, and other late-night readers...
I too am about to "start" putting my ideas to paper. I've enjoyed the discussion... good insights as always.
I titled my sermon, "Everything's Alright, Yes, Everything's Fine" to steal a line from Jesus Christ Superstar.
Earlier tonight, about an hour and a half ago, my wife and I were visiting a friend (fellow UM Clergy) and his wife. We were sitting with their 17 month old son as he "entertained us" with climbing up and down the funrniture, laughing, eyes getting heavy and giggles in between. It was then we heard some thunder and lightening... the wind came up... the rain started pelting the windows. His wife ran to the window and whisked their son up in her arms and in a panicky voice said, "Well, I think we'd better get down in the basement!" Her husband, the calm preacher among us.... (I was quietly agreeing with the wife)... my friend said, "Honey, it's NOT that kind of a storm yet!" Still worried, I called my kids cell phones, 19, 18 and 16 and asked "where they were and if they were all right?" They were all ok and close to home... we told them to stay home and we'd be there soon, sure enough we arrived home... and as I type the lightening and thunder continues but nothing SEVERE... everything is alright, yes, everything is fine.
Earlier in the week, our retired "mentor" pastor said, "God doesn't always calm the waters of our lives... sometimes, God is simply there with us and that knowledge is in and of itself very calming indeed."
Peace and grins,
pulpitt in ND
