This passage strikes me as a commercial that will never appear on
television -- a popular product is being pitched and the sales rep
says to the clients, "What I offer is OK, maybe even pretty good,
but there is something better than what I am offering. I got your
attention by being flashy, but substance is more important!" Along
comes SUBSTANCE! which is blessed by both the sales rep and by God.
OLAS
B. Davie Napier in "Song of the Vineyard" (New York, Harper and Row,
1962) writes:
"Not creatio ex nihilo but creation in terms of analgous to Israel's
own creation. Israel was prior tothe call of Moses, bu she was
chaos. She was without order, meaningless. She was .... tohu vavohu,
"formless and void." God called her into being by his Word. (page
49)"
This is the very condition that Jesus finds as he comes to the
Jordan to be baptized by John. It is as though the people of God had
sunk into a chaotic, formless void, lost, confused, blinded, without
a shepherd to lead them. In the Jordan, God sets out to create once
again a people for himself.
The light that burst forth from the heavens with the angels to the
shepherds, the great light that drew the sages to Bethlehem, enters
the water to enlighten everyone.
tom in ga
I am captured by the image that Jesus began His work at the touch of
the Holy Spirit, just as the disciples began their work at the touch
of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
This leads me to understand how powerless we are without the Holy
Spirit touching our lives.
KAS
How do I preach the message that the one that came before me has the
good stuff. I am just hear to say it again. I am not worthy to tie
his sandels, but I mistakenly think I am worthy to repeat his
message and maybe even twist if for my own gain???????? BT IND
12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. (Mark
1:12)(also found in Matt 4:1, Luke 4:1)
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither
have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath
prepared for them that love him. 12 Now we have received, not the
spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might
know the things that are freely given to us of God. (1 Cor. 2:9,12)
These scriptures tell me that God's plan for our life comes through
his Holy Spirit. This knowledge is power and it is something that we
naturally fight. (I'm not sure if fight is the word I'm looking for)
It is intresting that Jesus was driven into the wilderness to be
tempted by satan. Was this a time of understanding? Time used for
the human person of Jesus to come inline with the divine mystery of
being the Son of God with a mission?
Jesus is called the beloved here. Maybe that's the key? Love is more
than an emotion it becomes the focus of Jesus' life. (the plan so to
speak) Sometimes love can be hard to accept, I wonder why?
Just getting my head around it, what do you think? KB in ks
KAS,
You hit the nail on the head. In fact, your brief comments on the
power of the Holy Spirit have helped me get a sermon "angle"
already.
How many of us desperate preachers would be doing what were doing if
it weren't for the touch of the Holy Spirit? How on earth would we
keep on keeping on without the H.S.?
Another thought: The Holy Spirit was for Jesus, a source of power,
but also a confirmation of who he was and what he had come to
acomplish.
It's early in the week. I look forward to the discussion.
MEL in NE
About a year ago my grandmother died at the ripe old age of 93.
Sometime prior to her death, I realized that my continuity with my
past was about to be gone (my father had passed away 10 years ago).
I always felt the strongest family ties with my father’s side and
claimed my sense of identity through them. I began to ask questions
about my genealogy… about my grandmother’s family history and about
my great grandfather (whose last name was Fahling) whom I remember
well from my childhood.
As I questioned my mother about the family history on my father’s
side, she indicated to me that my great grandfather’s real last name
is unknown. It seems that he left the old country and came to the
New World as a waif, his journey paid for by a farmer with the name
of Fahling.
Upon crossing the waters of the Atlantic, my great grandfather took
up residency with this farmer, labored on his land and even took
upon himself his sponsor’s name and identity and became part of the
Fahling family even receiving a share in the inheritance of the
family farm.
At first I was disappointed with the loss of a history, but then I
realized that in many respects this is the meaning of our baptisms.
Crossing the waters we take on different residency, ordained labors,
and new identities and begin a new history. We become an integral
part of the family of God through sharing in the baptism of Christ
who sponsors and pays for our journey.
sorry this takes up so much space,
Pr.del in Ia
Remembering our baptism...
I have the baptismal FONT in the center of the front of the
sanctuary. I've replaced our "pie tin sized bowl" with a large
stoneware bowl... In it, I've placed water a couple hundred of those
flat marbles... they can be purchased at any ARTS AND CRAFTS STORE,
or at your local Wal-Mart in the ARTS AND CRAFTS department. They
cost under $10 bucks for a couple hundred I would guess... I always
try to have extras for any and ALL who might come this Sunday. multi
colored different stones this year... I have some green ones, dark
blue ones, purple ones, gold ones, light blue ones and clear ones...
we're all different but the same in God's SIGHT or should I say ...
Before the end of the worship... either just before they are invited
forward or during my sermon I invite all in attendance to come
forward to remember their baptism. They need to make the effort...
to get out of the pew and come forward, dipping their hands in the
cool waters of baptism reminds them of the change that took place in
their lives, mostly as infants. Now as adults or even older youth...
they are invited to take a stone... it's round, basically...
reminding us that we are all a part of the whole. Some have chips or
nicks in them... we too come with nicks and chips, some seen, some
known only to God and ourselves. They are flat, (don't want people
losing their marbles over this) ;?)... so they won't roll away if
you place them on your night stand, a dresser, by the sink in your
bathroom, your kitchen, or on your office computer. They are
clear... (you can get blue ones, or clear ones or even kind of
rainbow metalic looking ones... I try to vary the stones from year
to year...)... They are ALL "See through"... just as our lives are
an open book to God.
Some carry them in their purses or pockets to remind them of God's
love, ALL THE TIME! Reaching for change, to feel the smooth stone is
a comforting reminder of God's abundant LOVE.
pulpitt in ND
Mark is such a "just the facts, ma'am" sort of gospel. I find myself
missing the fullness of the other accounts - of John resisting, or
of "the Spirit descending ~in bodily form~ like a dove ..." Three
verses and it's over.
Mark is so concise, there's something meaningful in the
pre-expansion. These are the facts, this is what's important - Jesus
was baptized by John, the heavens tore apart and the Spirit
descended, and a voice from heaven claimed him "my Son, the Beloved
- AND God's pleasure with his son."
Maybe Jesus' baptism is less about the nuances than the rite (it was
a rite, not a Sacrament at the time of Jesus' baptism, wasn't it?)
and the seal of approval. (Reminds me of the Good Housekeeping Seal
of Approval).
I had to come to grips with my need for ritual and ceremony. The
Protestant side of me wants to deny power in the ritual because
ritual is not a substitute for substance, and the Catholic side of
me wants to fully encounter ritual as a way of marking and ordaining
holy time.
I see Jesus' baptism as marking holy time - the next step in the
story of the Good News. A baptism of repentance for the forgiveness
of sins - to which one who was without sin submitted - was the
initial step in his ministry.
I'm going to stop at v. 11, though, and not get too much into the
message of baptism being the beginning of ministry (which it is),
but I'm drawn to reflect further on the ordination itself rather
than the surrounding story. I don't like preaching Mark, but he
keeps me honest to the issue at hand.
Thanks for letting me ramble a bit.
Sally in GA
pulpitt in ND - good idea with the stones! We'll do a reaffirmation
of the baptismal covenant this week, too, and that might make a good
memento. One year I printed a clip art of a shell in about a 1 1/2"
square and laminated them with clear Contact paper with the words
"Remember and be grateful" on it so that worshipers could put them
in their wallets like those pocket crosses.
Sally
Remembering our baptism.... pulpitt in ND, Do you ever get any
comments like, "we did this last year." or "When will I have a
complete collection?" or has this become a new tradition with your
church? I have just used the clear "water drops" once, but wondered
about its becoming old hat. Max in NC
Maybe I've shared this here before... my friend Kip tells the story
of his mothers baptism. She never told anyone this story until Kip,
now a pastor was discussing baptism with her a few years ago.
Apparently, Kip's mom, Carol Sue, was baptized when she was a little
older than an infant. Probably 5 or 6 years old. Still, the memory
is a vivid one.
As she recalls... "When the pastor dipped his hand in the water... I
saw... something sparkly misting through the stained glass window...
I really felt it WAS the Holy Spirit touching ME. Years later, she
would hide her face at baptism for she was "afraid" of the HS.
Of course the cynic might say it was nothing more than "dust" in the
air... but for her, it was REALLY the Holy Spirit.
pulpitt in ND
Spiritual Tatoo...
Barbara Sholis used that term later in her article regarding the
Mark text for Sunday...
I think back to the pictures and the experience of water in
basements along the Red River... and ANYwhere else flood waters have
flowed. There is a HIGH water mark on basements and even living room
walls.
Just rambling... although THOSE marks are probably not the best ones
to recall. We all are surrounded by those who will remind us of how
we've been marked and blessed by God's unconditional waters of
Grace.
Pulpitt in ND
I NEED SOME HELP!!! This is off the topic, but... I have a 19 year
old son dating a 17 year old. She happens to be the step-daughter of
the Wesleyan pastor down the street from my Christian Church
(Disciples of Christ). On several ocassions they, (the pastor & his
wife) have sat my son down, told him he was spiritually immature (as
compared to their daughter) and quizzed him about Holiness being
better than Calvinism (which I have by the way never mentioned in 23
years of ministry). Instead of holiness I believe their attitude is
more holier than thou. My son wants me to go talk to them. Should I
and what would I say? PH in OH
"My son wants me to go talk to them. Should I and what would I say?"
In a loving and Christian manner ... tell them to piss off!
Blessings, Eric in KS
Gee-whiz! I think the Wesleyan family missed this quote from John
... Wesley, that is: "in essentials, unity; in doubtful matters,
liberty; in all things, charity." I'm with Eric ... well, almost. I
would probably do a little editing. (heh-heh) PastorBuzz (UMC, by
the way) in Tennessee
PH in OH,
I would be a little more conservative, offering a gathering of the
two young adults and the four more mature adults so that you can
establish some expectations for treating each other with respect
(which it appears the other parents are not doing with your son). I
would suggest you act more as moderator, and that your son do the
speaking. It might be a good opportunity for him to speak up for
himself without being unfairly chastized by her parents. (Might be
interesting to know what the 17-year-old daughter has to say about
it, too.)
Michelle
I love the imagery of the heavens being torn apart--What would that
look like? One lone (but huge) bolt of lightening with a deafening
crack of thunder containing the voice of God, "YOU ARE MY SON!"?
Michelle
I walked a dog from the SPCA for three weeks before Christmas. All
went well, with me, individually. We introduced it to our kids on
Christmas Eve day. All did not go well. The dog bit my mom and
snapped at others. A dog trainer from the SPCA said we should never
have been allowed to take home that dog. She said it might never
grow out of attacking when afraid, and we would never know if it is
safe. She took the dog back and introduced us to another dog. She
said the other dog was "confident." Indeed this other dog is great.
Because it is "confident," it is safe, secure and happy. The trainer
said if a dog is loved and socialized as a puppy, it is "set up for
life." The other dog was not "set up for life." It was never
properly loved and treated well as a pup.
Scott Walker in his book "Driven No More," says people need to
receive their blessing - meaning approval, love, acceptance, value
and praise, from their parents. If people aren't blessed, they have
troubles in life.
Jesus received a divine blessing at his baptism. Because he knew he
was blessed at the core of his being, he could face the devil, face
religious and political opposition, heal, eat with outcasts, and die
in solidarity with the oppressed.
What can't we do when we know our blessing?
I think the job of the church is to help people receive their
blessing, and know they are blessed, so they are "set up for life."
If not, people may suffer, like the poor dog whom we first took
home. Brent in Pincher
One angle that has not been mentioned much yet is that of Rites of
Passage. I would like to explore some rites of passages from other
cultures and as to what the signify in their perspective cultures.
As Christians, Baptism is God claiming us, do we see this promise,
this beautiful act, as a rite of passage as we begin our spiritual
journey's? Whether it is as an infant or as an adult, do we
celebrate this ceremony with the joy and excitment that we do
birthdays, sweet 16 parties, first dances, ect...?
I also have the priveledge of Baptizing two young boys who have
entered confirmation class this previous fall.
I would like to read some of your thoughts on this point of view.
Grace, Michael in Texas
Pr. del in IA,
Thanks for sharing that story about your family history as it
relates to baptism. It was powerful and helpful. Thanks!
EB in KY
How I long to preach on this text. I love it. Unfortunately, I will
be traveling this weekend. Perhaps a three-point outline emerges as
we see the heavens split, a Spirit descend, and a voice speak. What
would I see and hear had I entered the water? Had I been the one in
the river...the heavens would have slammed shut due to my
sinfulness, descending upon me would not have been a spirit like a
dove, rather a taloned eagle to carry me off to judgment, and the
voice would have declared me, not a beloved son, rather a lost and
condemned creature. Thanks be to God who gives us the victory in
Christ. Because Jesus came, fulfilled all, and accomplished my
salvation, I can receive the gifts promised in my baptism (whether
in infancy or adulthood). Indeed, John needed Christ to wash him.
However, Jesus gives a wonderful and powerful visual aid for all to
see and hear of what can and does happen because of His coming.
On the subject of anxiety...a George Orwell quote comes to mind,
"There is one part of you that wants to be a hero or a saint, but
another part of you is a little fat man who sees very clearly the
advantages of staying alive with a whole skin." Those anxious about
the future may not be comforted by these words but at least we know
we are not alone. We also know that as we belong to Christ, nothing
can separate us from God's love. ARMY CHAPLAIN E, Ft Belvoir
Good advice from Michelle: Your son is 19, a young man and can speak
for himself. If he plans on any relationship with the 17 year old
gal, then he will have to learn how to interact and stand up to
"Dad." Although really tough, we have to allow our kids to do some
of the hard stuff themselves... speaking as a parent who knows what
it feels like to watch and allow a child to fall inorder to gain
confidence in the process of picking one's self up. Good luck!
Rev.wm
To Sally in GA
"Mark is such a "just the facts, ma'am" sort of gospel. "
The New Student Bible (NRSV) by Augsburg introduces Marks Gospel as
a closely edited documentary. Dispenceing with almost everything but
action. The word greek word sometimes translated as "immediately" is
used 42 times. It does have the pace of an action thriller movie.
I will add my 2cents worth about the 19yearold and the 17yearold. I
like the idea of letting the 19 yearold speak for Himself, after
all, speaking your own faith is much better than being a parrot.
However, I think that maybe before he speaks you might want to
discuss the questions with him first. That way he clarifies his
beliefs and it is easier to profess. I think that it is totally
inappropriate to "defend" in this situtation so that a debate or
argument occours, rather that it be an open exchange of beliefs.
some how my Mommy protection instinct would like to make it known
somehow that they are badgering my kid unecessarily! gRRRRRRRRR!
Nancy-Wi
I need some help for a Hispanic baptism. I want to do the baptism in
both languages, God help me pronoun things correctly! Does anyone
know of a particular Spanish/Hispanic/Mexican hymn or song available
in Spanish that would be meaningful for the service. Nancy-Wi
PH in OH, Had to have my say on your dilemma with your son and the
girl's family. As a licensed marriage and family therapist as well
as a part-time solo pastor in the Calvinist tradition
(Presbyterian), I have to agree that your son is old enough to
handle his problems with her family. Don't get involved at all. You
have done a good job of modeling how to "mind your own business" if
you stay neutral in this. Practice what you preach
(hopefully)--tolerance and cultivating a non-judgmental attitude.
For we are all baptized into the same body. Of course, you are
probably feeling much like Eric expressed, but I'd only share that
with your spouse or closest friends. Adolescents are "practicing"
adults, so the more you give them the space to practice the better
they will handle their situations in the future. Good luck letting
go, BB in IL
PS. I used the glass stones last year and it was a big hit,
especially as I played "Going down to the River to Pray" from the "O
Brother where Art Thou" CD. The congregation was really into it,
even my Unitarian husband came forward to remember his own
Presbyterian baptism! Now that was worth seeing and witnessing.
Indeed the Holy Spirit moves in mysterious ways.
Nancy in WI,
Regarding the Hispanic baptism, there is a song in the Presbyterian
Hymnal "Lord, You have Come to the Lakshore" that has Spanish verses
as well. The title in Spanish is "Tu Has Venido a la Orilla." It is
#377 in the PH. It is a very beautiful and moving hymn and works
well with guitar, so it sounds even more Latino. Actually the tune
is from Latin America "Pescador de Hombres." Hope this helps, BB in
IL
It seems to me that for too long, at least since the Reformation, we
have returned to the Baptism of John as the norm .. calling people
to confess their sins and to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior,
without fully understanding the power of this sacrament to transform
lifes and to bring us into the Divine Life of God.
Why is this sacrament so difficult to grasp, to understand, even by
us professional people? Why does the nature of this bath slip out of
our hands, could it be that the Holy Spirit will not let us rest or
be comfortable with our formulas or doctrines?
tom in ga
Actually, on the Calvinist 19 y.o. dating 17 y.o. Holiness-ist (is
that word?) I think BB's advice is the best.... still I do rather
feel about it as I expressed earlier.
On the "in all things liberty" quotation? Who do you suppose really
said it? Mennonites claim it was Menno Simons; Methodists claim it
was good ol' John W.; I'm sure if I look hard enough I can find an
Anglican attribution of it to Richard Hooker, and a Lutheran giving
credit to Martin! But I wonder who really said it....
Blessings, Eric in KS
Tom in ga Thanks! You pointed out a gret direction for my sermon.
How often is baptism looked at as being saved from something,
instead of claiming our gifts and calling.We need to move it from,
whew, I'm safe to wow, I'm loved and accepted by God.Notice that
Jesus hasn't done a darn thing yet, yet he has the divine seal of
approval And on the blessing angle-theologian Sam Keen says it is
the father's responsibility to bless
and Sally-I love preaching from Mark. Just so much movement and
excitement in that gospel ( oh, wait, I'm Presbyterian-we aren't
allowed to get excited. Oh,well)
revgilmer in texarkana
The text says that "the Holy Spirit descended like a dove on him."
Interesting thing is that often we talk about doves as peaceful
animals. The truth is that doves will often eat their own kind when
taken to fight with each other. The fact that they are white (the
color of purity) has given them the reputation of being peaceful.
This is not necesarily true. Instead, doves were more like pigeons
in the sense that they were messengers for people living in the
ancient world. Doves could carry messages for people across long
lands and could be counted on to return to their owner. The Holy
Spirit coming upon Jesus as a dove is another way of saying that it
came upon Him with as a messenger.
A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...
Sorry, the last line should say.. "it came upon Him with a message."
A New Pastor on the Jersey Shore...
"In essentials, unity, in doubtful matters,liberty; in all things
charity." popularly attributed to Augustine
As some of you are concentrating on the Holy Spirit, I believe I
will use this passage to develope a theology of baptism including
the work of the Holy Spirit that is consistent with the Wesleyan
tradition of which I am an offspring. Often, a lot of emphasis is
place upon the water in baptism and the person's willing
participation in that event. However, the emphasis of the Mark
passage is on that which happens after the fact: the spirits
affirmation that Jesus is God's son with whom God is well pleased.
At this point, I am going to introduce Gary Smalley and John Trent's
notion of blessing. Jesus' certainty over God's blessing upon his
life created the conditions that would assure that Jesus would be
able to accomplish that for which he was sent. Think what would
happen in our church's if we could invoke a similar blessing upon
our congregations. TN Mack
Brent, I like the "Dog analogy"...
Thanks, regarding the 19 and 17 year old... piss off might be a
little strong... I don't see any thing wrong with talking that out
with the other pastor, the two of you, the four of you or the sixth
of you. If, and it sounds like he won't take it anyway... maybe it
wouldn't hurt to meet with him alone at first... then bring on the
reserves... (if he doesn't listen) and say something like: "I
understand your faith tradition is different than my sons, but I
know him to be a very faithful Christian in his own right." OR "I've
heard that you are concerned about my sons "holiness"... I'm sorry
but that sounds a little arrogant or pharisaic doesn't it?"
All is PHARISEE in love and war,
pulpitt in ND
pulpitt in ND. You are a brave man. Just remember the words of
wisdom that go something like: "Anyone who argues with a fool,
becomes one." Brent in Pincher
pulpitt ... that energetic Methodist from the frozen north ...
offerd, "maybe it wouldn't hurt to meet with him alone at first...
then bring on the reserves" ...
You've been reading the Scriptures again, haven't you? Matthew 18, I
think: "15 If another member of the church sins against you, go and
point out the fault when the two of you are alone. If the member
listens to you, you have regained that one. 16 But if you are not
listened to, take one or two others along with you, so that every
word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17
If the member refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and
if the offender refuses to listen even to the church, let such a one
be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
==============
Apropos of this lesson -- Who heard the voice from the Heavens? Only
Jesus, Jesus and John, everyone? If the latter, why did it have so
little effect on the rest of the hearers? Why do the baptisms we
perform seem to have so little effect on the candidates and those
who witness them?
Blessings, Eric in KS
New Pastor on the Jersey Shore wrote on a unique interpretation on
the descending dove, as it bring a message. Thanks.
That is a different angle that I haven't thought much of.
I have still been thinking about the rites of passage that we
culturally celebrate. Events that mark time, that signify a new era
of living.
When Christ was baptized, his life was entering into a new time of
ministry. A new beginning.
When we baptize people, either as children or as adults, it marks a
new time. It begins to mark God's time.
Someone wrote on the fear and awe that should be associate with
Baptism. If we reaaly think about it, it should scare the hell out
of us(no pun intended). Yet as we walk into the presence of God. God
declares his love and claim on us. While this is scarey in one
sense, it should also be very beautiful.
God has a chance to let his will be known to us and the world. Maybe
that was the message of the dove?
So much religion focuses on fearing God and God's wrath and
judgement, are we maybe putting words of judgement in the mouth of
God to justify the distance that we feel between us and God. Since
sin was committed in the Garden, Humanity has been hiding and
running from God out of guilt and shame.
Was that God's intention, or had he been trying to reconcile with
humanity through out time.
In Baptism, God finaly gets his turn to speak, and that message
is....
You know it!
Thanks for letting me ramble
Michael in Texas
