Is the call this simple? What was it? Was it the faithfulness to
their task as fishermen? Was it because Jesus saw something in these
men? If so what was it?
What does "immediately"? Does it mean "instantly"? What did these
men see in Jesus?
The Jonah account seems far more realistic, at least in my
experience. There is a relunctance, a hidding before surrender!
Why would the anawim be the first to hunger to hear the preaching of
the Kingdom of God?
Where is our hunger today? What prevents us from following? It seems
to me that all of us, persons and parsons, are so much members of
the institution, the holy institution, that the word awaits us with
little meaning.
Perhaps that is why we have a calendar of saints and worthies. Not
that they are examples to the faithful that a response to word is
possible, but that only a few actually respond.
Even our call is questionable. As clergy we belong to the
institution, we are like the professional prophets of the temple, we
are more eager to keep people happy than we are speaking boldly as
though we have heard God address us.
tom in ga
I don't think our call is questionable. I had mine confirmed by
friends, a Commission on the Ministry and then the Elders and
Deacons of my home church.
Tom, What is an anawim?
What prevents us from asnwering the call? I remember my mom, in
particular saying, "Just think of all those funerals you are going
to have to do? And think, you will never have any money!" I listened
for a while, but eventually the Lord won out and my parents are
proud of their son. By the way I do a good job doing funerals -
others do too! I would rather do a funeral than a wedding. What
keeps us from answering the call? Fear and the love of creature
comforts. We think more of what we are going to miss out on than the
blessings God has in store for us. PH in OH
PH ... I'll answer before tom has a change, I guess. The anawim were
the poor people of ancient Israel .. the dirt-poor, untouchable
outcasts. Anawim is the plural form of an Old Testament Hebrew word
which is variously translated as "poor", "afflicted", "humble", or
"meek". It is the Anawim, "the lost and the forgotten ones", to whom
Jesus refers in the beatitudes' "Blessed are the poor."
These are the people who seem most frequently to have understood the
message preached by Jesus and his disciples, much more so than the
religious hierarchy, the political establishment, the wealthy, and
the educated.
Fr. Reuben Villote in Kerygma Magazine a few years ago wrote:
"To be an anawim is to be a child before God. Without Him, I can do
absolutely nothing; but if I have nothing else but God, then I have
everything.
"All of us can be anawim. Being poor, being an anawim is not having
nothing; it is sharing everything. Whatever it is you have -
material or spiritual wealth, talents, time, friendship - you give
for others. When you give your life for others, you are anawim. The
beauty of God's poor lies in their generosity."
I hope that answers the question....
Blessings, Eric in KS
Tom,
Now how did the Anawim get into this discussion? Are you saying that
the disciples are Anawim? I got lost in this discussion, I think.
Janice in Ks
I have a few things to ponder on this passage as well. In the
context of the church as we (I) know it in my time, this is a call
to leaders or clergy. The average person in Jesus day could follow
as they desired supporting Jesus as they would or could. So does
this preach to the average person in the pew and should it preach
there?
Also regarding the anawim; My electronic concordance of the good old
KJV says the word for "blessed are the poor" is "ptosso". It is a
word used for beggars who crouch. So I think there are several
people on this discussion string that need a little help with
getting to the bottom of the word usage.
Grace and peace, Mike in NC.
One of the most popular country songs last summer was a fishin'
song..."I'm gonna miss her," the fella sings, when he chooses
fishing over his wife. As challenging as it is to serve Jesus, my
husband would rather be martyred than have to go fish. Who knows how
the sons of thunder felt about their occupation. It seems they took
it up quickly enough after the crucifixion...lkinhc
Mike in NC wrote: "Also regarding the anawim; My electronic
concordance of the good old KJV says the word for "blessed are the
poor" is "ptosso". It is a word used for beggars who crouch. So I
think there are several people on this discussion string that need a
little help with getting to the bottom of the word usage."
I'm not sure to whom or to what your last sentence refers, Mike, but
let me answer your point about "ptosso" which is the Greek
linguistic equivalent of "anawim" (and, also, grant your point that
"ptosso" is the root of the word used in the Greek Beatitudes, "anawim"
being Hebrew or Aramaic, which language does not appear in the NT.)
The "anawim" are the economic poor who groan under some type of
basic need (Is 61:ff). The poor are those who hunger and thirst, who
go naked, who are strangers, the sick, those in prison, those who
mourn, those weighed down by a real burden. The poor are those who
live "bent" (which is the linguistic root of "anawim") under the
weight of a burden, those for whom life and survival is a hard ask.
Most biblical scholars agree that it is the anawim to whom the NT
refers in texts like Luke 6:20-21 and Matthew 25:25ff.
The New Testament word most frequently used to denote the
economically-sociologically poor is "ptochos" (which as Mike notes
is derived from the verb "ptosso", to crouch or bend down, also the
root meaning of "anawim"). "Ptochos" appears twenty-five times, and
in twenty-two cases refers to the economically afflicted and
dispossessed. In the other three cases, where it means spiritually
poor (Mt 5:3; cf. Gal 4:9; Rev 3:17), there is always some
qualification added.
So to say that the Beatitudes refer to the "anawim" is simply to
equate Hebrew "anawim" to the Greek "ptochoi".
tom in ga started us down this road and if this were a discussion of
the Beatitudes, it would (I think) be profitable review. But I'm
sort of in the same camp as Janice (We Kansans have to stick
together) -- I'm not sure how this relates to the "sons of thunder"
who, as self-employed fishermen, hardly seem to be amongst the "anawim"
.... So, tom .. let me repeat Janice's question: "How did the Anawim
get into this discussion? Are you saying that the disciples are
Anawim?"
Blessings, Eric in KS
WaynO asked, "Why does Jesus choose whom he chooses and why does he
choose them for what he does?"
GOOD QUESTION!!!!!
I sympathize with Wayne, who is "neither fish nor fowl" ... for a
long time ordained deacons in the Episcopal Church were in much the
same situation, not considered clergy for purposes of participating
as voting members in church counsels, but not considered laity
either.... Deacons are now recognized as full members of the clergy
order. But... We have licensed lay ministers now of several sorts
(lay preachers, parish administrators, catechists, lay eucharistic
ministers, and so forth) and I think they at times have the same
feeling.
And so to do the clergy and our families (especially our families!).
We are to be part of the communities in which we serve. We share
some of the most intimate details and moments in the lives of many
people, and yet we cannot get too close to our parishioners. A
fellow priest once broke down in tears at a clergy conference
pleading for peace and friendship amongst presbyters because, he
said, "I cannot have friends in my parish." And my wife, as we
struggle through all the conflicting emotions of dissolving this
pastoral relationship, recently commented, "We don't have friends,
we have parishioners."
It is strange and wonderful, but frequently painful life to which
Jesus calls us!
Blessings, Eric in KS
PS -- What a free ranging discussion this has gotten to be!
Eric in KS,
Maybe the Sons of Thunder ARE among the anawim. I just took a look
at the St. Louis University website on the lectionary, and John
Pilch has some interesting historical/cultural information. He says
that a natural social contract would have united Jesus, a poor
artisan, and the fishermen, poor laborers. Even though they had
their own business, they profited from it very little. Tax
collectors, like Matthew, would profit much more than they would.
(That of course leads to some interesting thoughts on the community
of the disciples - uniting the oppressed anawim with the oppressor
tax collector...but I digress!)
Metz in Indiana
Tom in GA - I get struck by the same thoughts. Here's some more on
it ...
To follow up with the themes (at least the themes I pursued) last
week - that calling and salvation are God's initiative, I tend to
side with (or maybe was influenced by) a sermon by Barbara Brown
Taylor entitled "Miracle on the Beach." Here's an excerpt:
(we tend to make too much of human volition, human initiative) ...
"It's a form of idolotry and it is peculiarly American, because we
HAVE so many choices, and because we have it drilled into our heads
that God helps those who help themselves. What we have lost along
the way is a full sense of the power of God - to recruit people who
have made terrible choices; to invade the most hapless lives and fil
them with light; to sneak up on people who are thinking about lunch,
not God, and smack them up side the head with glory.
"Take this morning's story, for instance. Most people hear it and
right away start worry9ing about whether they have what it takes to
be a disciple...
(back in those days, Rabbi's didn't seek students; students sought
rabbis) ...
"But that is not the strangest thing. The strangest thing is that
they went along with him. Not one of them or two of them, but all of
them. He called and they followed, for which we tend to give them
all the credit... Well, nonsense! According to Mark, there was
nothing hard about it at all. Jesus called and they followed Period.
... No angst, no torn hearts, no backward glances ... It was like
something happened to htem, something almost supernaturally beyond
their control.
"If you ask me, this is not a hero story but a miracle story..."
Sally in GA (Georgians have to stick together, too)
Dear Eric, Thanks for the comments on my question about the anawim
(I hope I spelled that right). My problem still remains though about
this being a call to apostles or the original twelve disciples. I
hear a lot of frustration in this forum about our calls. Fred
Craddock said on the subject of my ordination 10 years ago that if
you try to find the reason for God's call on your life in anything
but his mysterious will you will be in error. He went on to explain
that finding it in ourselves will only build some type of pride. I
think the old guy was/is right! It is tempting to go back to just
plain old fishing... Mike in NC
It is tempting to go back to just plain old fishing... Mike in NC
Amen! Amen!
and again, I say, Amen!
Eric in KS (who used to go fishing the salty waters of the Pacific
Ocean and after ten years here still misses the sea!)
Dear fellow fishers of men and women, I just wondered something. We
all have a few problematic brothers and sisters in the Lord in our
churches. For me they are not "keepers". Can we throw them back? :)
Mike in NC.
Dear fellow preachers, Don't stop me now, I am on a roll! Does
becoming fishers of men (and women) happen automatically. I don't
know about fishing for fish in the style they would have done it in
Jesus time, but it seems from hearing fishermen (and women) around
here that you do have to know your fish. Yet the laity I have dealt
with over the years seem to know only one form of fishing for
people; pleading. Many parishioners I have dealt with have used the
same method with relatives and friends for years. I ask them why
don't you switch methods and they look at me like I am a crazy fool.
I am a crazy fool but I hate it when people look at me that way. Any
way it is another angle. The 12 Knuckleheads...excuse me...I mean
the Disciples...would learn many things in the three years they were
with Jesus and also afterwards.
Mike in NC
WaynO in NE wrote: "I am a bit confused here but not so much with
the discussion as my call. I am commissioned lay pastor in the PCUSA
and there seems to be no place for me. I am not clergy I am not just
an elder anymore."
WaynO: I am a licensed local pastor in the UMC and find myself in
the same boat. I was with my church's youth group at a large event
in Gatlinburg Sunday and all of the "ordained" were called to the
stage as part of the service. Those youth who believed God was
calling them to full-time vocational ministry had been asked to come
forward and the "ordained" were then summoned in support. My youth
leader tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Go on up, Buzz." I
explained that I was a licensed local pastor ... and it was the
first time I ever felt second-class citizenship in the ministry.
No sweat, though. It is God who sends the call, not man.
Incidentally, my 17-year-old daughter was sitting in front of me
when the invitation was given to the youth. She turned and with a "I
really don't have any choice" look -- straight into my eyes -- went
forward.
May God bless her with great discernment ...
Personally, in the spirit of the priesthood of all believers, I
believe this text is for all who hear the voice of Christ in their
hearts.
Blessings, PastorBuzz in TN
In the excellent Bible Study, Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby
points out that whenever God calls, there is a crisis of belief.
God, you want me to enter the ministry? You've gotta be KIDDING!
Never happen. No way, no day! Do you hear that God? For me that
argument lasted maybe six months. Now I'm one of those UMC local
pastors, with no place to lay my head in either the clery house of
the laity house. The crisis of belief is a little less evident for
the sons of thunder than it is for Jonah. Though it's not supported
by the passage, I kinda believe that when James and John were
"immediately" bailing out on their dad, there might have been a
twinge or two of remorse. Sometimes God appears willing to negotiate
a bit on his call, as with Moses: Well, if that's how you feel, I'll
send along Aaron to be your mouthpiece. Other times, God is not, as
with Jonah: Go to Nineveh. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Do
not quibble or whine about it. Go to Nineveh. What part of "Go to
Nineveh" do you not understand? Blackaby teaches that the crisis of
belief includes the implicit dilemma -- obedience or rebellion. If
obedience is the choice, major life adjustments must follow, because
God doesn't call us to tea parties, but to significant, God-sized
projects that we could never accomplish without God doing some
miracles. How do you whip an army of 120,000 with 300 guys? You
don't. God does. Your role is simply to be a place-holder for the
writers of human history.
Bill in Ga
This call story is anything but simple! Look what it cost Simon and
Andrew - they left their nets and followed - they left what they
knew, their livelihood, their stability, their comfort zones, and
followed Jesus. Look what it cost James and John - they left their
father and followed - they left the relationships and comforts of
home.
This is anything but simple. Jesus calls us and asks all of us to
give up something and follow. The new life that Jesus offers is a
challenge to the comfort zones we build up. Are we prepared to give
up careers and relationships for God? I did to pursue my call to
ministry. But what does it look like for the average Joe in the pew?
Does the call to discipleship require giving up what we know and are
comfortable with? What will Jesus' call cost? What are we being
called to give up and leave? Tough questions for a difficult call!
Pastor John in CT
Steven Wright has said:
"There is a fine line between fishing...and standing on the bank
like an idiot."
Jerry in Jacksonville, Fl
Lots of fishing going on here for direction. We are starting to a
"hopes and Dreams" visioning process right now. If anyone else is in
the process. What kinds of fish who need "hope" can we find. what
kind of "dreams" do the fish have? What truely are we fishing for?
Only beautiful trout or are we willing to take on the catfish with
it spines. Do we only "keep" the right size, and only the perfect?
what about the fish with dieseses or lanprey attached? Incidently, I
love to fish in a boat with a book and no bait on the hook!
In response to throwing fish back, a UCC church in Wi. just did
that, they ask about 12 people to leave the church because they were
in conflict over some differences about how money is being handled
and ministreal approachs. Perhaps Frank can post the article it is
in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel monday's paper. I do not have a
scanner. Nancy-Wi
I find it interesting that this passage includes the arrest of John.
Could the arrest of John been a way in which God worked to bring a
focus to Jesus. (lousy word order here.) In other words, could it
have been in the hearing of Jesus baptizers arrest that the soon to
be diciples level of awareness of Jesus' teachings and
proclaimations become the top news story in the gossip pipeline.
Nancy-Wi
Having had a cold the past two days and not feeling like spreading
that kind of joy to my parishioners, I had extra time to work on the
sermon. Just for contexts, I still don't know if I have bridged the
gap between laity and clergy. I mean there may well have been many
more called and we don't see them saying no to Jesus. And these will
be the nucleus of what we call the clergy. So there is one of many
voices in my head saying this a passage for
disciples/apostles/preachers. But being a good protestant, this may
be a call to all beleivers. My usaual method of handling these
issues in a sermon is simply not to mention them. I will let God
work out the detail in the hearts and minds of his children.
There is not much terribly original here. I used alot of ideas that
are on the forum. I did try to tie discipleship with our committee
functions and activities. Both churches have been deactivated over
the years and thus there is plenty of room for disciples in these
places.
Anyway see what you think. If nothing else you may get a chuckle out
of the beginning where I tell how I was traumatized by fishing as a
kid.
Grace and peace, Mike in NC.
Mike in NC: Thank you so much for your plaintive plea, "Can we throw
some of them back?"!! I laughed for a good five minutes and still
chuckle whenever I think of it, having just lost a family of
literalists who have chased away four previous pastors...CE in CO
Nancy-WI I, too, noticed that the passage began with John’s arrest…
and wondered what effect (if any) it had upon Jesus’ decision to
proclaim the good news. Are there not events (sometimes as sorrowful
as the arrest of godly persons) which help us to understand the
significance, and or the meaning, of our calling? We realize within
our heart that there is nothing else we can do, but respond.
Though I usually avoid pulling from one gospel to make a point in
another, I think it is significant, especially to the immediacy of
their response, that these men who now choose to follow Jesus had
also known John’s ministry. I think they were primed – ready to take
up the truth. Especially having seen the potential cost… they were
the sort of people who dared to dream the good news was truth.
As to this being a call to “leaders” only… I have a card posted on
my desk quoting someone whose name I don’t know – it reads: “To be
in Christ is to be in ministry!”
Jesus called these people to use the talent, the skills, they had to
achieve a new purpose. He called them to risk leaving the known they
had done for themselves, their families and friends, and embark on
the unknown they would do with God. There were (the hired) folks
left to take care of the other tasks… these guys were replaceable at
the lake. Those things they had done were not as important as they
may have thought… But what they accomplished with God, you and I are
still touched by.
It can be an exhilarating venture to fish - it is an exhilarating
adventure to respond to the good news.
Ramblings from one who rarely posts,
Just another Tom
I love Barbara B. Taylor, and especially what was quoted above "It's
a form of idolotry and it is peculiarly American, because we HAVE so
many choices, and because we have it drilled into our heads that God
helps those who help themselves. What we have lost along the way is
a full sense of the power of God - to recruit people who have made
terrible choices; to invade the most hapless lives and fil them with
light; to sneak up on people who are thinking about lunch, not God,
and smack them up side the head with glory." It got me thinking,
what are the calls in life we answer without thinking. My aunt would
love for me to visit more, but I never have the time. The two times
I have been to her home in the last decade were for the death of her
son and husband. We don't have time, but when a family member dies,
suddenly all the other demands of life fall away. A trip to the
emergency room did the same thing for me last year. I was on a youth
retreat, worried about the kids and getting everything done - then
boom, I ended up needing to go to the hospital - all the other "have
to's" melted away when the call of pain came. Isn't the call of
Christ like that. We don't grapple, we just answer. It's Christ's
calling not our following that makes us disciples. Lisa in Central
Illinois
Some fodder for sermon preparation thought:
In the 1964 movie "Man's Favorite Sport?" Rock Hudson plays a
sporting goods salesman reknowned for his fishing expertise. The
movie's plot revolves around his participation in a fishing
tournament. You see, this fishing expert has a carefully kept
secret. The truth is that this "expert" on fishing has never
actually fished!!
Also, this scripture seems to divide nicely between 1) Jesus' call
to repent and believe and 2) an example of what this looks like
lived out -- the calling of the fishermen.
Another thing to consider is the concept of "sure things". We
probably all feel most secure when certain areas of our lives are
"sure things." The areas differ from person to person. For some,
everything could fall apart, but as long as their checking account
is healthy, they are fine. For others, it's the well-being of their
families that determines their sense of security. For yet others,
all that matters is their status as a home owner. For the disciples,
fishing may have been their sure thing. It was at the very least
their income, their way to put food on the table, a roof over their
heads. But here Jesus asks them to let him become their one sure
thing. He asks them to let go of their old preoccupations for a new
preoccupation: Jesus and his purposes.
Another possible way to discuss this passage is by dividing it into
our need to get hooked on Jesus and then letting God use us to get
others hooked on Jesus.
Just some thoughts. I appreciate the thoughts and illustrations
shared on this site a lot. Thank you!!
EB in KY
Though I usually avoid pulling from one gospel to make a point in
another, I think it is significant, especially to the immediacy of
their response, that these men who now choose to follow Jesus had
also known John’s ministry. I think they were primed – ready to take
up the truth. Especially having seen the potential cost… they were
the sort of people who dared to dream the good news was truth.
Another Tom. I like your primed by John comment. The ministry we do
in our communities seems to be "priming" stuff like John's. Priming
for the hearing about God. The outreach of helping hands and hearts
can start someone to opening their heart to the Lord. I think you
have identified something that I haven't thought much about in those
terms. Many who seek Christ, are introduced by the life of another.
How many of those who fished (took the disciples places) came to
beliving because of the discpiles response. The discples response
then becomes as John's ministry a primer for a nugget of faith.
Nancy-Wi
I don't remember who said the following: Ever notice that fishermen
who have boats are always trying to get close to the banks and
fishermen who don't have boats are always trying to throw far from
the banks? BT in IN
Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Does faith initiate
following, or does following initiate faith? I'm tending to fall on
the side of God's compelling call precedes faith, at least in this
case. These guys didn't know Jesus from Adam and yet "immediately he
called them; and they left their father in the boat and followed
him."
Sally
Sally, The Holy Spirit gives us the faith we need to follow. In
following we gain more faith. PH in OH
Two or three thoughts on the text and the discussion:
1. It's one thing to make a move like these four disciples did with
the motivation of getting away from something, i.e. a job (or a
congregation) that you don't like. It is another thing to make a
move to something new and better. I see making a decision to follow
Jesus in the latter category and it is not necessarily a clergy vs.
laity move. It could be giving up a worldly life style for a
divinely inspired life style without changing occupations.
2. The questions about clergy vs. laity are troubling. In the United
Methodist Church the clergy are called to a specialized ministry of
word, order, and sacrament. Other than this there is no distinction
between clergy and laity. Rather than looking at this text in terms
of clergy vs. laity, I think it is more helpful to see it in terms
of clergy and laity. A good resource to learn more about this is a
book by Roy and Jackie Trueblood called "Partners in Ministry." The
whole focus of this book is helping clergy and laity to learn to
work cooperatively for the good of the kingdom. Picky Preacher in GA
I was in my middle 50s when I finally gave in and surrendered to the
call, leaving for seminary with the words of my mother echoing in my
ears....but, you'll be 59 when get back, why start this now? my
response...mom, I'll be 59 whether I answer the call or not, and I
have to redeem the time given to me. SCM
Can anyone give some direction to this approach. I was in a
conversation with a layperson. I raised the question of why these
fishermen would leave their careers and follow "immediately." He
replied without a moment's hesitation, "Because they were bored."
I'm pondering building a homily around the theme that life is indeed
boring until we answer the call.
I too am troubled by the discussion of the clergy/laity split. We
Presbyterians believe in the priesthood of all believers. People can
be part of Christ's work in the world without being ordained... in
fact, there better be non-ordained people doing Christ's work too,
or we'd be in sorry shape!
DGinNYC
You said, "We Presbyterians believe in the priesthood of all
believers." And several others have weighed in to say the same thing
from their denominational perspective....
Just for the record, so do we Anglicans....
My question is, Is there any group of Christians who don't? I mean,
after all, Scripture is pretty clear about the church (not just the
clergy) being "a royal priesthood."
Blessings, Eric in KS
Gee Whiz, I am the culprit; Mike in NC. I brought up the issue
because of what I see as both a practical matter and a historical
fact. The practical matter is Jesus may well call to follow him in
one aspect or another. But some he calls to follow more closely. The
historical fact is by the time the Epistles are being written a
clergy group is well on its way to developement. Being wired
together as I am, it seemed a natural question. My question is now,
is it not relevant to explore our assumptions? This story here is to
12 to follow more closely and most 11 of the 12 will be the churches
first clergy. I to am a protestant. But my life is not simple and I
have to work these things out somewhat slowly and painfully. It is
easy to put aside the questions for some. Maybe I get stuck in the
details. May all offended be filled with forgiveness and prayer on
the subject. Grace and peace, Mike in NC
Mike in NC, I just read your last draft, and particularly liked the
part that says, "Wonder why church is such a draining experience? It
may be because you see church as something to do. Come to choir. Get
the budget done. Attend or lead a class. No wonder church is such a
drag. Find Jesus. Follow Jesus. Fish for Jesus and do it with grace
and joy and it may well become a whole different experience for
you." Thank you. On the other hand, with all the abused people in
this world, you might want to change the way you say the last
sentence before your conclusion. Michelle
Really weird. How did my last posting come in before Mike's in NC,
to which I was responding? Michelle
"The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near;
repent, and believe in the good news." Is it not the Kingdom of God
that makes it possible for us to let go of our inordinate desires
and those emotions that cripple us in our relationship with others?
The freedom that Paul talks about in his letter, and the lesson that
Jonah had to learn from God is something that these neophytes in the
Gospel will need to learn as well. They may get out of the boat
immediately but they still will face the suffering that was the
destiny of the Baptizer as well as the cross. tom in ga
As I made my way into this passage it was interesting to me that
just 20 verses into Mark's gospelwe already have the basic process
for becoming a disciple of Jesus laid out for us in three "easy to
remember" steps step 1 - repent step 2 - believe step 3 - follow
From here on the gospel writer works to flesh out what those three
steps involve. Good Fishing! Mark in WI
As I read this passage, thinking about connecting it with 1 Cor.
7:29-31 Jesus calling the poor untouchable, Follow me...I think
about that movie City of Joy with Patrick Swayze(o.k. I am a female
pastor, an example, no lusting about Patrick, good thoughts in bad
thoughts out mantra)LOL O.k. I all right now!! City of Joy about an
villiage, city in India...you have the slum...with NO HOPE...but
then you have the City of Joy, yes a 'slumlike' situation but people
there have hope to make it out...which in India thinking, with
castes difficult, born to caste right? Jesus came to people who were
untouchab;e by Pharasettical terms to say follow me....gave hope,
change the 'slum' of no hope to a City of Joy...Why? To show Gods
Power, Awesomeness! Pastor Mary in OHIO
