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Scripture Text (NRSV)

 

Luke 5:1-11

 

5:1 Once while Jesus was standing beside the lake of Gennesaret, and the crowd was pressing in on him to hear the word of God,

5:2 he saw two boats there at the shore of the lake; the fishermen had gone out of them and were washing their nets.

5:3 He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little way from the shore. Then he sat down and taught the crowds from the boat.

5:4 When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, "Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch."

5:5 Simon answered, "Master, we have worked all night long but have caught nothing. Yet if you say so, I will let down the nets."

5:6 When they had done this, they caught so many fish that their nets were beginning to break.

5:7 So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both boats, so that they began to sink.

5:8 But when Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, "Go away from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man!"

5:9 For he and all who were with him were amazed at the catch of fish that they had taken;

5:10  and so also were James and John, sons of Zebedee, who are partners with Simon.  Then Jesus said to Simon, "Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching people."

5:11 When they had brought their boats to shore, they left everything and followed him.

 

Comments:

 

Rejection comes in many forms. Last week we saw the people in the synagogue rejecting Jesus because they saw him as arrogant. Today we see Peter trying to reject Jesus because Peter felt unworthy. I want to reject his teaching when it doesn't fit with my own plans for today, or my way seems easier. Some reject Jesus just because.

But Peter soon pulls himself together, realizes that maybe it's not all about him, changes his mind and follows. He never did shake his sinful nature, but that's where Good Friday stepped in.

I wonder what it was that happened between Peter's near-rejection of Jesus and the decision to follow. The text isn't specific about that. They were all amazed at the great catch, but that was what made Peter say "Go away." Something happened while they were pulling their boats ashore. Maybe they had a conference about it. Jesus never extended the invitation to them... they just went.

 

It's only mid-January as I write this. Plenty of time to refine thoughts.

KyHoosierCat


Near the beginning of Jesus' ministry, his words and signs have powerful and surprising effects: crowds press upon him, a great and unexpected number of fish fill the nets, and a fisherman becomes an apostle.

The holy presence of God, which appears to Isaiah in the temple vision, comes to Peter on the lake of Gennesaret. After teaching on the shore, Jesus asks Peter to cast his nets into the deep water. Peter reluctantly agrees because he has already been fishing all night without success. In Peter's reaction to the unexpected catch of fish, we see the reflection of Isaiah's experience as he recognizes both the holiness of God and his human insufficiency. The "sinfulness" (5.8) of which Peter speaks is a candid response to his awareness of the gap that exists between his limited humanity and the all-powerful otherness of God.


A song from a musical asserts, "Anything you can do I can do better!" In today's lessons people are outdoing one another in humbleness. The prophet Isaiah moans, "Woe is me! I am lost, for I am a man of unclean lips...yet my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts!" Simon Peter cries out, "Go away from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man!" St. Paul describes himself as "the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle."

These are not cases of pride at being humble, but honesty. We may never experience an epiphany like Isaiah's who saw the Lord high and lifted up, but we know our Lord made low in the manger, we know our Lord lifted up on the cross, we know him arisen. Such a magnificent epiphany "demands my soul, my life, my all!"

The disciples were not always so humble. They were known at times to have argued about their just rewards. They could have compared all they had given up to follow Jesus. Simon and James and John: "Two boats full—I mean full to overflowing—full of fish. We left it all and followed him." Or Matthew, "I had it made—a job as a tax collector. But when he said, ‘Follow me,' I left it all, everything, and just got up and followed him."

No, if ever we brag, let's brag about what God had done for us. Isaiah could say, "The seraph touched my lips with the live coal and now my sin is blotted out." Peter would have to admit, "Three times I denied, but the angel at his empty grave said to the women, ‘Go tell his disciples and Peter...!'" And Paul could say, "By the grace of God I am what I am."

Say it this way: "I am what I am because God is how God is—forgiving!"


This is a story of awesome wonder. And Peter responds with his heart wide open. Rejecting Jesus? That's not how it strikes me. His language may sound that way, but look at him. He's fallen on his knees before Jesus. He declares his unworthiness, and yet he leaves everything to follow Jesus. What power Jesus must have had. It is hard to imagine this response.

RE: miracles. The miracles in our lessons for today seem to be about who God calls. We're unclean. We're unworthy. We're outright sinful. And yet, We are allowed to see Jesus. We are allowed to serve Jesus. We are the ones who get to tell the stories of faith to the world around us.

Amazing.

Pam in San Bernardino


Yesterday I ran into this background info on fishing in Galilee while browing the preachingtoday.com website... The article was dealing with the text in John 21, but I think it would also help us here in Luke 5 as well.

(begin quote) In John 21 Jesus redirects the disciples' fishing efforts. But the entire story assumes we understand how fishing worked in that century. New archaeological work has uncovered a myriad of ancient ports all around the Sea of Galilee, as well as a vast collection of implements used in its fishing industry (anchors, sinkers, hooks, etc.).

The best fishing could be found in the early hours before sunrise ("night" in 21:3). Fishermen in boats generally used vertical nets (drag and trammel nets) that encircled a school of fish by setting up vertically with cork floaters on one edge and metal sinkers on the other. That built a type of net wall from surface to bottom, which kept the fish from escaping. Once the school was surrounded, the net was tightened (generally by two boats), and men would throw cast nets (about 10 feet across) bearing lead sinkers over the unwary fish. These filled cast nets would either be emptied by a swimmer or pulled into the boat, while many of the other fish would get caught in the net wall surrounding them.

Peter's boat is using this method in the shallow water just 100 yards (200 cubits) from shore (21:8); it is likely that he is diving into the sea checking the cast nets (21:7).

The seven disciples had an unsuccessful morning on the sea and were frustrated. At sunrise, they were finishing up when an unknown voice from shore instructed them to try the opposite side of the boat.

"Throw your net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some," Jesus called out (21:6).

To toss a cast net at random into the sea was virtually futile. Only a school captured by an enclosing net could be picked up in this manner. But the stranger may have seen a large school of fish from the shore, and Peter quickly spun the net over his head and let it sail, like a parachute, dropping onto the sea. He watched the sinkers take it down. Pinned to the net were over one hundred fish—later counted at 153—and its weight was more than the boat could take. In these shallow waters, the miraculous catch could not be mistaken.

Recently members of Kibbutz Ginosar in Galilee found such a first-century fishing boat (now on display at the Beit Yigal Alon Museum, Ginosar) and its size gives some insight. Its length was 26.5 feet and its width 7.5 feet. If this bears any resemblance to Peter's boat, seven men alone would have nearly filled it. A large haul of fish would leave no room on board for much else. (end quote)

A frequent reader


Jesus taught all of them, but reveal himself only to a few, those who were available, faithful, teachable and responsive. But that was what I got a few years ago. Today, looking back at this passage, I see a balance in Jesus's ministry in responding to the hunger of the mass, and the intentional building up his core leaders.

In Jesus initial revelation to Peter, He could have performed a more obvious miracle such as having fishes flying automatically in the boat, but that will leave no room for Peter's willingness to participate in faith. It's ironic that many would challenge God to reveal Himself to them, but neither have the willingness nor the participation in faith.

Peter's statement was a wonderful hesitation, "I know this stuff, I also know how far we can get at this; YET IF YOU SAY SO, I WILL DO." The reason that I do not experience God's power fully in my life can be boiled down to the same two problems: 1) I don't know what God say (sometimes I got more confused from secondary researches, perhaps because of my lack of solid study of Scripture), and 2) I don't obey what I hear Him say (sometimes, out of uncertainly if I hear him correctly or not). But even in this state of confusion, mostly the cloud is about theological understanding, seldom on practical living. Sadly, I don't think even in that practical living I obey Him enough.

Follow the miraculous experience, Peter's followup was a deeper response that what I would have. "It's so cool, Lord, can you teach me how to have that discernment? How to know where the fishes are? How to be effective in my vocation as a fisherman?" That would be my line, caught up in all the excitements of the blessings.

Peter's response was strangely introspective, "Away from me Lord, for I am sinful!" Peter was able to look beyond the Purpose-Driven results and see the Cause, look beyond the Miracle and see the Maker. He was able to re-enact the Isaiah 6 style of response to God, and also commited his life to Him too.

So, the point of Jesus' miracle was not helping Peter to be more successful in his vocation (minister, in my case), but to help Peter to come to an encounter with the Living God, the encounter so compelling that he would be willing to forsake his vocation to follow Him. It was a long winded road, with many obstacles and distractions, with many incremental progresses of HEAR+OBEY, and continue on for the rest of Peter's life, but finally Jesus got his disciple.

Lord, help me to see beyond Your results.

Coho, Midway City


Do you ever feel as though you have heard a reading so many times there is no point in reading it again? I know the answer to this - I just have to confess groaning and nearly walking away when I heard the gospel lectionary reading this week. Makes me think that if i feel like this, so must those in the pews. our task - to bring the gospel to life I suppose! :)


We are used to the denial of Peter. But today's reading opens my eyes to the tremendous faith of Peter. How? Jesus was a carpenter. Peter was a fisherman. Yet, Peter pays heed to the word of Jesus and casts his net in the deep sea! (Selva Rathinam)


Very first, early thoughts. You can work yourself to death, do the work and even do everything right, but without Jesus, there is "no catch". I think this is true in anything you do, but especially for those of us in pastoral ministry.

Thank you, Selva, for the insight about listening to a carpenter! I am not sure how I will use it, but I know it will be included in my message!!

Blessings, Toni


Very first, early thoughts. You can work yourself to death, do the work and even do everything right, but without Jesus, there is "no catch". I think this is true in anything you do, but especially for those of us in pastoral ministry.

Thank you, Selva, for the insight about listening to a carpenter! I am not sure how I will use it, but I know it will be included in my message!!

Blessings, Toni


I honestly, really, truely, only hit the submit button once! Sorry, everyone! Toni


OK - ignorant question, here

Why do you need to wash your nets? Mending, I can see. Picking seaweed out, I can see. Washing?

Seems they'd be too heavy and large for the kind of washing I'm thinking of (like a wash tub with a scrub board).

Sally


Toni - you gave me a title - on a MONDAY, no less! (ahem) drum roll please ....

"What's the Catch?"

The Title-ly challenged

Sally in GA


Sometimes things are just too easy ... they labored all night long when all they had to do was to put out a little way and let down their nets (wonder if they got the soap powders out? - haha).

My initial response when things are too easy is, "Ok, what's the catch?"

Sally


This passage reminds me of something we often (TOO often) hear in our churches..."We've Never Done It That Way Before" --sung to the tune of "Sing Alleluia to the Lord." (That song is on the flip side of another old record, "We Tried It Before And It Didn't Work" and closely resembles "This Is The Way We've Always Done It.") Wouldn't it be great if we just put the nets out again, and gathered in the "catch" that God is sending? I have seen so much of God's work in my little churches recently...the Spirit is moving in Central New York! Even so, I still hear these two old refrains whenever someone makes a suggestion or introduces an idea. RevJan in CNY


sorry...THREE old refrains!


I love the title, "What's the Catch?"!!!!

Some early thoughts:

Ah the amazing things that happen when we come into the presence of our God. I am thinking of Bonhoffers comment about Peter walking on the Water... he could not do it until Jesus called him from the boat.

Here in these readings it seems that we have the call and then response. The disciples have been doing one thing, over and over... then Jesus calls them. They do the same thing, yet in the name of the Lord, and mmm, Interesting Results. (I say this after sitting through another Annual Meeting).

Isaiah, "Woe is Me." God comes to him. Purifies his lips (ouch!!) and then suddenly, "Here I am, Lord. Send me."

Paul even talks about Jesus appearing to him first... then he is able to act.

So how does God come to us? What are we to do?

RevJohn in Juneau


RevIsrael

I used the story of your Grandfather Butch this weekend and I want to thank you and tell you what a great impact it had at all three services. Your story really got all to thinking about mission outside the four walls of the building, plus validated the lives people lead in the real world.

Thank you again.

Pr.del in Ia


" They left everything and followed him " This haunts me. As clergy do we tell the laity they have to leave everything and follow. I am uncomfortable with this maybe we need to focus on following Christ where we are, in the workplace, school,whatever. Then we are fishing for people when we bring Christ to them. Padresac, MS


My title this week is "Please, I'd Rather Do It Myself" (from those old TV commercials from the '60's). In fact, this week's sermon will start to lead us into our Ash Wednesday service, which focuses on our attempts at self-sufficiency, bringing in the words of Christ, "cut off (or apart) from me, you can do nothing".

Sermon's written, bulletin's printed..... now I can get some serious home visiting done the rest of the week! But, knowing me, I'll come back to read everything and post a thing or two. Have a great week, everyone!

KyHoosierCat


Oh brother! I just looked up the "Mother, please, I'd rather do it myself" thing on my search bar (trying to remember which product they were selling with that line) and came upon Paul F. Bosch's 1998 essay doing the exact same thing. Well, so much for being done for the week. I get to start over now. Bleahhh.

KHC


I couldn't help but notice that Christ's instruction was to let down your "nets" and later we are told that the one "net" singular that was let down was full to over flowing, just think what may have been if multiple nets had been let down. The limits of the one may not have been so taxed and the catch even even larger. Could this be a lesson for the church? Humm I feel a sermon coming. Pastor Dan


Hello, I discovered a wonderful book entitled the Spirituality of Imperfection (I don't have the author's name with me), and I hope to weave into these passages from Luke and Isaiah reflection upon human imperfection and the fundamental need to accept them along with our powerlessness. We work so hard to be "perfect," and to hide our imperfections. One reason why the 12-step groups are so appealing is that they urge people to be themselves, warts and all, to surrender to God and thereby be empowered. Sadly, this admission of imperfection (and openness to forgiveness) is often hard to do within the context of the traditional church community. Anyway, that is the direction I seem to be headed.... Ruth


I don't know if this illustration could be used here, if not some other Sunday about fishing. I was invited to a buddies church who has satelite. We watched a live pastor's conference where one of the speakers was Dr. D. James Kennedy. He shared these words about fishing- "You know, as pastors and the church, we do most of our fishing in a bath tub. We like the comfort of fishing within the walls of our churches. The problem with fishing in a bath tub is that we only get small bits of soap. The fish are in the streams, rivers and lakes of the world. If we want to fish for people, we must go where they are in the streams, rivers and lakes of life." PH in OH


"A frequent reader" - good historical sociological background ... but can you give us a citation for the material?

Many thanks.

Blessings, Eric in OH


I have heard the blunt honesty of AA speakers. They are very sincere and blunt to put it mildly. However, the relationship with God is sometimes weak, especially when it comes to church ties. Many tend to think of AA meetings as a substitute for church. While I agree AA is a disease, there are some who would say, "God could deliver them and this is not emphasized." PH in OH


Although the Epistle lesson and this Gospel pericope are also on the Episcopal lectionary this week, the lessons from Hebrew Scriptures are different. We have Judges 6:11-24a and Psalm 85. The Judges piece is the commissioning of Gideon to go slay the Midianites -- his reaction is, of course, "I can't do that; I'm the least of the least." You can almost here the "we've never done it that way before" undertone. It fits nicely with this lesson in that regard.

I will probably build my sermon around that theme -- "The Seven Last Words of the Church" -- We've never done it that way before.

Blessings, Eric in OH


Why did Luke include this incident in his gospel? Why did Jesus perform such a miracle? Was it to emphasise the power of Jesus, or his uncanny knowledge of nature or some other reason?

If its about technique, then I certainly need to assess my own, because our catch is currently rather limited. If its about personal faith then I and many other clergy in my area, need to assess ours because frankly we're not catching such large numbers that we're in danger of "sinking the boat".

I think rather that its about position or direction of the ministry, and I certainly need to change mine, because our church seems to have been working in a kind of darkened state for the past 40 years and we are experiencing the results of that direction in the numbers who now affiliate with us on a regular basis. "We have fished all night and caught nothing." And I think that this is certainly close to Luke's point.

I like to think that Luke always had a reason for including what he did in his material. He always used the events of Jesus life, as a means of directing the corporate developing church.

In this case, it is into the deep water that he (Jesus) directs the fishermen. Now, when I'm in deep water, it usually means that its over my head. The kind of depth where I can't touch the bottom. Not in the safety of the shallows, but perhaps even out of my league and out of my capacity to cope.

Now I can't be sure of Luke's direct intention but I think he wants the corporate church to understand something very fundamental about the ministry.

While the church, and I remain in familiar territory or comfortable surroundings, our catch (our influence upon the lives of people) will be limited. It is in the unfamiliar, the uncomfortable reaches of our lives that I think we do the best work for Christ. Those deep places where we are floundering and simply relying entirely upon our faith and grace. (as others have said)

To reach such numbers of people, however means that we can't possibly sustain our current level of intimacy that we're used to. Whilst it might seem exhilirating to contemplate such large numbers, it is not without risk. Ministry that doesn't contain an element of risk, is usually not effective.

My own experience of fishing, is that the best and largest gathering of fish always seem to be in the most inhospitable places.

Ah well! That's the fishing life.

Regards to all for a great week. KGB in Aussie.

PS: Sally - My little experience with nets suggests that if they were regularly netting off the bottom the nets are covered with mud, sand and debris. Normally if you don't wash this off, it can seriously weaken the net cord where it remains. Most fisherman simply rinse them on the edge of the shore and then hang them to dry. Hope this helps.


KGB in Aussie's comments about fishing reminded me of a sermon I preached four years ago at my former parish's annual membership meeting. It had to do with the Markan version of the call of the fishermen (Mark 1:14-20), but y'all might find something of use there....

http://thefunstons.com/sermons/b012300.html

By the way -- don't use the evaluation form -- my consultation site is currently laying fallow -- I haven't had time up-date it since relocating to Ohio and have disabled most of it... So just use your "back" button to return to this site.

Blessings, Eric in OH


Then there's "shooting fish in a barrel ..." gosh, the puns could go on and on!

Just an odd sort of thought for food!

If we put the nets down and catch a bunch of bass, will we say, "Oh, darn! I was hoping for perch!"

Sally


Just a note, the scripture as printed here on the forum is missing verse 10. and so also were James and John, tsons of ebedee, who were partners with Simon. Then Jesus said to Simon, "Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching peoople."

The phrase "deep waters" strikes me. If we only fish with shallow words, will the catch be small? Nancy-Wi


I am learning to fly-fish. The thing about fly-fish that most amazes me it that you have to know what the fish are biting on- what they are hungry for. If you don't have the fly that resembles what the fish are biting on, you might as well pack up your kit and go home.

We all hunger for the holy presence of God. Without that presence in our lives, the nets of our daily existence come up empty. Clearly the people are hungry...following Jesus and pressing upon him to the point he has to scramble into Peter's boat. I have been pondering what words Jesus spoke to the people from the back of the boat. Perhaps Peter's encounter with the holy presence of God began as he heard Jesus speak from the back of the boat. The words must have filled the God- shaped hunger in Peter's heart, for Peter, the experienced fisherman, to honor Jesus' request and let down his nets after a night of unsuccessful fishing. The miraculous catch confirms Peter's growing realization that he is in the presence of the living God. That encounter with the holy seals Peter's commitment to Jesus and sends him out, like an experienced fly-fisherman, who now knows from personal experience the God-shaped "fly" that people hunger for.

Susan in GA


Sally - Regarding the fishermen washing their nets: from my experience using hand power to pull in beach seines, the nets collect silt and slime from the lake bottom which makes them really heavy and hard to pull. What's more, if that stuff dries on the nets, then the nets will be even heavier when they are used again and collect more slime. So the fact that the fishermen were washing the nets suggests to me that they just finished pulling them in and were doing their clean-up work before calling it quits for the day. That would probably make them all the more reluctant to heed a stranger's suggestion that they put down the nets one more time and get them dirty all over again with no clear sign that they might be more successful this time.

Bill - a former fisherman


When I read Simon's words"Well, if you say so..." I can't help hearing them in the drawling sighs of Eeyore, Winnie the Pooh's defeatist donkey friend. His nervous words of "Go away from me.." I imagine in the nervous stutter of Piglet. Too much Milne?

If you want to get the full effect of reading this lection Sunday, sneak into the sanctuary early and leave a few open cans of tuna under the pews.

Sorry I have no constructive insights this early, tom in TN(USA)


I loved the title "What's the Catch?" Here's another... In this world where money seems to be so all-important: What's Your Net Worth?

Tom in the Adirondacks


Two things that immediately come to me in this passage and the Isaiah and Corinthians passages are the places of call (in a place of worship, on a roadside and beside a lake) and the feelings of unworthiness of those being called. Still very early in my ponderings - not sure of where I'll be going. Looking forward to all your comments. Blessings LGB


Can't help myself...

But is not this website kind of a "Net.." Catches all these fishes on the Inter... NET.

I love this site!

RevJohn


Padresac.MS I believe we can "leave everyting" and stay where we are. We can "leave" our greed and participation in materialism, we can "leave" our conceit or our unhelpful humility, we can "leave" our critical or complaining natures. We can "leave" whatever may separate us from God or keep us from following Christ. Blessings LGB


I am doing "Fishing 101", I am getting a lot of this good stuff you all are sharing in it! I think I am going to do like a syllabus, decription of the job of "fishing for men". Blessings, Toni PS I am usually "last-minute-Lucy" on here Saturday nights, Sally has a title and I have a text! WOW!!


Hey, Tom, I think cat food would be more effective! Or even sardines. Toni


OK, I think some of Sally is rubbing off on me! I am doing this in "bites". Did anyone else notice that the scripture above has left out vs 10? I was thinking, "Wait, it does not say anything about being fishers of men", and I looked in my Bible and realized the verse was missing! I have not seen that happen before. I usually just print the scripture from here and make notes by them. Hmmmm? Blessings, Toni


I remember a bumper sticker, "A bad day of fishing is better that a good day at the office." Aren't we blessed that we get paid for what we do??


Nancy-Wi: I've always been captured by the phrase "Put out into the deep water." Have you ever noticed that when fishing in shallow water, the fish can seen you and scatter? When we carry a shallow spirituality, or a shallow sense of worship, the very fish we are trying to get into the net scatter. I'm coupling that concept with the second part of that phrase, "Let Down Your Nets." If you don't take the time and effort to let down your nets, if you don't cast out into the deep, you will not catch any fish. Pure and simple. Shallow Spirituality+No Effort=Empty Nets.

PastorBuzz in Tennessee

P.S. I'm thinking about using "A River Runs Through It" where the narrator notes that his Presbyterian minister's father was quite proud of the fact that the disciples were fishermen ... and John, the Beloved, was a dry-fly fisherman.


Pastor Buzz wrote: "I'm thinking about using "A River Runs Through It" where the narrator notes that his Presbyterian minister's father was quite proud of the fact that the disciples were fishermen ... and John, the Beloved, was a dry-fly fisherman."

"River Runs Through It" is a great book and a good movie.... but the sort so "sport" fishing that a fly-fisherman does and the subsistence, do-it-for-a-living seine fishing that the apostles did are two very different activities. Personally, I think it belittles the call to be "fishers of people" to equate it, even metaphorically, to sport fly-fishing.... and I say that to one who spent many enjoyable hours fly-fishing with my grandfather, some of the happiest memories of my youth!

Blessings, Eric in OH


How many times have we been tired, through for the day (ready for the showers, so to speak) and the word comes to us "throw out your nets" Maybe there are times when God needs to get past our sacred (to us) sense of self-suffiency, and can only do it when we have given up and are ready to go to the house.

I attend an AA group that meets at my church, and tonight they were talking about their "higher power" and what someone said really stuck with me about a higher power (read:God) "how much more you can do with God than without"

Rick Warren (yes, the purpose-driven guy) says that we need to set goals for our church that are about ten times more than we can reasonbaly expect to accomplish- so that we can give God room to work.

Sometimes, you just to have to trust that God knows more than we do (which is harder than it sounds-at least for me) Human knowledge, human experience, human skill are not unimportant- but the ability to trust God is more important than anything else

revgilmer in texarkana


Is there any significance to the fact that it is only after Jesus has finished speaking that he tells Peter to try the other side. How long does he teach ( did he have to tie everything up in twenty minutes or less?) does it end before the good time for fishing. Does everything stop when Jesus teaches (Peter's partners are still there). Maybe my liturgical sensibilities are overwrought, but is there something about worship here, tying in with the Isaiah passage, which is thought to be about worship? Any thoughts on this?

revgilmer in texarkana


Just found an excellent sermon on this passage on going deeper into our faith, you can find it at http://www.ashlandmethodist.org/sermons2001/01-08-19.html

really worth a look

revgilmer in texarkana


Good Sermon, and a great creed too! see previous posting link. I have just come back from a VIM trip to Cuba. Deep faith is needed as many do not believe. Many are openly ridiculed for their faith, but yet they fish... Sorry this is so incomplete but I am still a recovering and meditating. Nancy-Wi


What is shallow spirituality? How would you define it? I am trying to put that into words. Nancy-Wi doing the little bits stuff too.


If they hadn't caught the huge catch of fish, would Peter have followed? Did his faith depend on the act of Jesus to provide a miracle?

Anonymous

PS KHC, why rewrite a sermon because somebody else did something like it before? If you didn't steal it, it's your work.


bammamma, I am using the CD you suggested in Isaiah. I have some questions for you over there in Isaiah. Nancy-Wi


"What's the Catch?" is a great title idea.

This week I'm building on the Jeremiah lection from last week. I talked about "God's Timid Masterpieces" & how he made us to be showcased in a special spot but some want to hide themselves in the closet.

This week, I'm going to explore what happens when we step out in faith and follow Jesus. I'll use two brief testimonies from each of my two congregations. I'm planning to explore getting prepared for the blessing God showers on us. My title alludes to the first "Jaws" movie when the men set out to find the shark. They finally do, and the sheriff's(?) comment gave me my title, "We're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat!"

It's especially appropriate for my two little churches. This spring we are stepping to revitalize our children's program. For the first time in years we're going to offer children's choir, Sunday School and VBS. There's no way it will fly unless God give us a miracle.

However, stepping out in faith is not something you do when you have all you need. Faith is doing what God wants when there's no way to accomplish the task without His help!

Peace & blessings

Rich in Bama


It sseems to me that there are two net releases and two catches. The first is Jesus speaking from the boat to the crowd on shore. His net is cast that he catch may be large. Then, he orders Peter to launch out to the deeper water to let down their nets. A second catch is made. Of fish? Perhaps. But, how about of fishermen who would learn to cast out nets of the Word that the catch may be brought in. Lynn in Blair.


Simon answered, "Master, we have worked all night long but have caught nothing. Yet if you say so, I will let down the nets." Luke 5:5

Oh, the insanity of the will when it is curved in on the self, the inability to see or understand anyone else's suggestion - the power of being always right! Jesus is not a fisherman, Jesus knows nothing about this craft. Peter knows and has experience catching fish. What is Jesus doing - going beyond his area of knowledge and "commanding" Peter to do something that goes against every fiber of his being: "We have worked all night and have caught nothing." (Under his breath he must have been saying: Its no use, we have tried everything, I really know better anyway).

It is only in the surrender, the letting go of the will and the ego, turning toward Christ that the miracle happens. So it was with Isaiah, it was recognizing (turning toward) the unseen Glory of God that the prophet recognized his own sinfulness.

In both accounts through their surrender they were ready to respond to a call. We must do all we can to examine our own refusal to submit and to turn in order to follow the one who is Life.

tom in ga


When I read this passage this time around, the line that stuck with me was - "Jesus got into their boat..." , hence, my sermon will be something like - Jesus in your boat. We often think of spiritual, dedicated, very faithful people as seeking and finding God and serving willingly - didn't Mother Teresa do it this way? Didn't ML King do it this way.... well, no. Its not that they (or we) go off to find a Savior, or find God to ask for an assignment (or a call, to use church language), its more like God comes looking for us, right where we live,love work,worry, and make ends meet. For Isasih it happened in a worship - GOd came into his "vision". FOr Moses it was out with the sheep when he couldn't resis investigating that odd bush. MLK somewhat reluctantly got involved in a bus incident and boycott in the 50's. Our initial response is (like Peter, Isaish, Moses, MLK, Mother Teresa...)typically - Oh, not me.... I can't.... I'm not worthy or special. In fact, our idea that there are special people who go off to look for a special relationship with GOd may be a way for us to avoid a call. But God knows us, and God sends us CHrist, and Jesus gets in our car, sits by our desk, watches us type at the computer, stands in our kitchen, urging us to go to the deeps of life with him..... still working.... Jim in CT.


A reply to Rev. Jan:

The tune's a good one...but you've got to match the meter:

1. We've never tried that way before... (we've never tried that way...etc)

2. We tried it and it didn't work... (we...tried it years ago...we...tried it years ago)

3. What will the other churches say? (what...will the others...what...will the others..)

and I've got to come up with positive verses:

4. The best way to fail is not to try... (the best way to fail...the best way to fail...)

5. If Jesus wants it, it will fly... (If Jesus wants it...If Jesus wants it...)

6. God's plans take work and sacrifice... (Jesus makes it possible...Jesus makes it possible)

So sing Alleluia to the Lord...etc.

Da Rev in CT

New lyrics © Borderlands Music, 2004. Please feel free!


Jim in CT - you're so right; we don't go looking for a savior = I'd say it was primarily because we're not aware we need one. And our Savior comes to us, not the other way around.

On the other hand, we are created with a vague sense of incompleteness, restlessness, yearning, thirst that will not slake until heppening upon the "real thing." My favorite analogy is the Country-Western song, "Looking For Love in All the Wrong Places." Prevenient Grace, in more highbrow circles.

As for me, I'm remembering the really bad movie from the 70's, "Logan's Run." Remember? they went looking for "sanctuary," having been sheltered from anything but their geodome.

We somehow know there's something more, but it's a combination of us going to him and him coming to us - but from then on, it's us FOLLOWING him.

Sally in GA


oops - should clarify. We're aware we need somehting - just not aware of what type of Savior we need.

Someone mentioned AA - well, to get all Dr. Phil about it, the addiction began with a type of payoff. You're self-medicating and therefore that numbing-like buzz is your payoff. So, in a way, alcohol is the savior.

However it's not the right savior.

Sally


Am I the only one here that can see Isaiah's understanding of his sinful self and Peter's realization that he is a sinner and relate this to the filth that passed for a half-time show this past Sunday during the Super Bowl? Has our culture sunk so low that crotch grabbing, pelvis thrusting and the unspoken permission to tear off a woman's clothing is okay? We get glimpses of the holy Lord in Jesus' preaching and teaching with authority and his ability to cast out demons and heal the sick. Isaiah envisions God upon the throne of heaven and the seraphim choir echoing Holy, Holy, Holy throughout the ages and we are stuck in small boats with dirty nets! I'm not sure where I want to go with this. My Lutheran soul cries "grace, grace" and then I realize that I, too, am a sinful woman being asked by Jesus to cast my net. Just some thoughts rattling in my brain. Blessings to all of you. You are my "text study" as I slog through Hebrew and Greek and all the joys of seminary work. - Seminary Cindy


Thanks, Eric for the link to your sermon. I like the idea of our limited concept of evangelism as being one (person), one pole, one fish at a time, versus hauling in a whole net full. How small our vision. My teenage daughter attends a church that keeps doubling in size. It's possible to make disciples in large groups. We haven't gotten there in my church yet, our style is more humble. But who knows what may happen if you listen to Jesus?

DGinNYC


Nancy - Wi,

Here's my attempt at an explanation of shallow spirituality.

Shallow spirituality is the difference that Jesus refers to regarding the pharisees. They clean the outside of the cup, but fail to deal with the inside.

Their spiritual reality is related to what is physically visible and temporal. It is the easier way. To simply appear holy, is much easier, than actually being holy. To appear loving and compassionate and caring, is much easier than actually loving as God dictates.

Shallow spirituality is often connected with moral purity, civil acceptance, social norms, rather than a genuine conviction for those that society (and sometimes even the church)- spurns.

To go deeper into oneself, is to discover the darkness of ones own being, and the inert prejudice and errant thinking that govern our everyday existence. Jesus was a deep thinking person, who saw the injustice caused by people operating only on the surface of life.

Superficial Christians concerned only with how God and the church appear to the world, I have found contribute very little to the concern for those who truly do know themselves to be sinful beings.

In this I refer to the opening chapter of Phillip Yancey's book - "What's so amazing about grace"

"Church!" she cried. "Why would I ever go there? I was already feeling terrible about myself. They'd just make me feel worse."

As I said at the beginning, this is my attempt. I think the western modernised world, accepts so much shallow spirituality disguised as deep thinking, that we have become very surface orientated. Jesus was the man who hung around with prostitutes, publicans, dirty and rough fishermen, tax collectors and the like. All those that the Pharisees regarded as despised by God.

Please accept these token thoughts in the spirit of one beggar showing another, where to find bread.

Regards, KGB


We need to keep the West Virginia Conference people in prayer, this is the year for them to have a new Bishop. Plus, they Endorsed two to be nominated Rev. Tom Bickerton and Rev. Randy Flanagan...God Bless them both. (I hope the WV Conference gets a female bishop! I am praying for that! Ready or Not WV!)

CB in West Ohio


Another big fish story! In a reference book of 14,000 quips and quotes there are a number of them about fishermen. Here's one...."It is generally agreed that no honest men are fishermen." And another....."How far a fisherman stretches the truth depends on the length of this arms." And yet another......"African natives fish lying down but in this country fishermen lie standing up." Thankfully, our text this week is not just another big fish story.

SW Ohio guy


Happpy Day to All,

Just getting ready to say something "catchy" this week and noticed that I sometimes feel like I make aweful bait. I wiggled and wiggled avoiding the insertion of that cross in my life missing the importance of allowing the sharp edge of that hook to pierce my heart with such loving precision that I can continue to wiggle attracting others to this bizzare dance known as servant ministry.

I too appreciate the title "What's The Catch" for I was anxious to know the price that had to be paid for the peace and serenity that I felt when I moved toward my call and not further away. I was easily swayed to envision that ministry was about me fishing for others instead of realizing I am the bait. Even more important is the understanding that "fishing" and CATCHING are very different concepts opening all kinds of issues not the least of which is what fish were needed for in the first place....food - How about the clip from Nemo where the shark yells "I'M HAVING FISH TONIGHT" - We really do need to be able to acknowledge that we, like those we hope to catch are called to be fodder for the world, nothing less, nothing more. Kind of hard to sell even for a strapping fisherman who knew that he would want Jesus to "fish" his way....Say it ain't so Jesus...I never Knew him...Yet Jesus' sacrificial example demonstates a profound reality that living in community, building love relationships that seek to meet the needs of the marginalized and voiceless will be far more impressive than a full net of fish...

My title will be "Here's the Catch" stemming from my post resurrection perspective that discipleship is a dance of joy in the midst of sorrow. A foolish practice of acceptance and offering of time talent and resource in hopes of extending the table....not just in hope that I will one day eat in the eternal presence of the fisherman who caught me, but the miraculous realization that whenever I am blessed to have something to eat and someone to eat with today that God is right here with me. That makes me dance a little harder and, I hope catches someones attention....

 This video is about a philosophy of living that is very applicable to ministry... Sorry for the wind, but just wanted to share....Getting Hooked on all of you,

Cyrktrder64


This year I am focusing on issues of hunger as I explore this reading. The catch is fish. Food. Here is Jesus again filling the bellies of the poor who labour all night long and have nothing. The disciples leave everything to follow Jesus, which I understand as following the way of global peace and justice. I think most who post on this site are ministering with privileged churches, and the passage challenges us to leave behind our excess in order to embrace the calling to live and work with the poor. My congregation struggles with maintaining a building full of exquisite stained glass windows. We argue about worship styles. I think this passage call us to place our struggles elsewhere, to leave everything we know of North American church and examine what Jesus really calls us to be and do.


Life must have been rather unsettling in Palestine with Jesus of Nazareth on the loose. Wherever he went, crowds seemed to materialize, normal daily routines were disturbed, lives were put into such new perspectives that perfectly good occupations suddenly seemed irrelevant--even the age-old rules about when and where to fish no longer held! Jesus had a way of threatening the old and promising the new, of changing the lives of anyone he touched. Peter could have borne eloquent witness to that fact. This story about Peter concerns the beginning of his contact with Jesus, a contact which was to have importance beyond anything Peter could ever have imagined when he changed his vocation from catching fish to catching people. But Peter knew that he had to follow that man, come what might. Could Peter in this story have anything to say to us about our response to Jesus?

A sermon on this passage could well have as its theme the kind of change which contact with Jesus Christ brings into one's life. The story has descriptive, but perhaps also prescriptive, values. Life simply is not the same after contact with Jesus. For one thing, he opens our insight into ourselves. He is dangerous to the way we have lived and the way we want to live. He lets us see dimensions of ourselves that are not pleasant to see. In the light of his grace, the dark corners of our lives come into view, and we are forced to admit we are not what we pretend to be, or even what we want to be. With Peter, we must confess that we are sinful people. But that is not the end by any means. Contact with Jesus also means we have a task set before us. Our old priorities may suddenly collapse, in light of the new priorities Jesus puts before us. Contact with him may change the way we carry out our whole lives. We may not, with Peter, abandon our old vocations, but we will surely carry them on in a new pattern of relationships with our communities. Thus, Peter acts out the only response appropriate to contact with Jesus of Nazareth: he, Jesus, must become supremely important in our lives. We will not become disciples in the way Peter did. We cannot follow Jesus the way Peter did. But we can accept the challenge te risen Jesus puts to our lives. We know what Peter in this story did not know: that Jesus of Nazareth, risen from the dead, has become God's glorified Christ. Have we any alternative but to put him first in our lives?

The danger in such a sermon is to give the idea we can all become little Peters. We cannot, obviously, but surely Peter's response has paradigmatic value; the structure of the story points to the fact. Peter here acts out the ideal response to the challenge of Jesus. That is the emphasis the sermon ought to have, put in terms appropriate to the contemporary situation.


Nancy In WI

ran across this quote in my daily mailing from the bruderhof community (thanks to Eric for pointing out this website http://www.bruderhof.com)

"When in doubt, make a fool of yourself. There is a microscopically thin line between being brilliantly creative and acting like the most gigantic idiot on earth. So what the hell, leap." (Cynthia Heimel)

Robert Capon in his book "The Foolishness of Preaching" talks about how we are so afraid to be thought of as foolish that we reach a very limited Gospel, and that every preacher who is afraid of being a fool for Christ will eventually become "just a damn fool."

Shallow spirituality is a piety that is safe, that never takes risks, that thinks it can depend completely on itself. It is a spirituality that seeks only to feel better, that does not look beyond the end of its own nose. It stays in the shallows because it is afraid of the deep, of the changes that being in the deep water will bring about. Going into the deep is dangerous, because you are not in control in the deep water. Oh, and if you're not going to drown, you need something to hold on to (even Mark Spitz can't tread water forever)

And along the lines of being a fool for Christ and in the spirit of Yancey's (ahem) best book "What's So Amazing About Grace?" (which is a very dangerous book in the best sense of the Word) here are the lyrics to a Rich Mullins song that talks about the depths Of Jesus

Surely God Is With Us

Well, who's that man who thinks He's a prophet?

Well, I wonder if He's got something up His sleeve

Where's He from?

Who is His daddy?

There's rumors He even thinks Himself a king

Of a kingdom of paupers

Simpletons and rogues

The whores all seem to love Him

And the drunks propose a toast

And they say, "Surely God is with us.

Well, surely God is with us."

They say, "Surely God is with us today!"

Who's that man who says He's a preacher?

Well, He must be, He's disturbing all our peace

Where's He get off, and what is He hiding

And every word He says those fools believe

Who could move a mountain

Who would love their enemy

Who could rejoice in pain

And turn the other cheek

And still say, "Surely God is with us, Well, surely God is with us,"

Who'll say, "Surely God is with us today, today!"

They say, "Surely God is with us Well, surely God is with us"

They say, "Surely God is with us"

Blessed are the poor in spirit

Heaven belongs to them Blessed are those who make peace

They are God's children I Am the Bread of Life, and the Way"

You hear that Man, believe what He says!

Tell me, who's that Man, they made Him a prisoner

They tortured Him and nailed Him to a tree

Well if He's so bad, who did He threaten?

Did He deserve to die between two thieves?

See the scars and touch His wounds

He's risen flesh and bone

Now the sinners have become the saints

And the lost have all come home

And they say, "Surely God is with us (Surely God is with us)

Well, surely God is with us,"

They say, "Surely God is with us today!" (Today!)

They say, "Surely God is with us Well, surely God is with us"

They say, "Surely God is with us today"

grace and peace

revgilmer (trying to stay warm like most of the country) in Texarkana


I'm heading for the deep water myself. I've got a couple of stories about water that I can work into the sermon (the first day of swimming class when I jumped into the deep end, bobbed up like a bobber on a line...and then remembered I couldn't swim...) and the time we headed out of the calm of Renshaw Bay right into the leftovers of a thunderstorm on Lake Ontario that nearly swamped our boat. Nothing like seeing water 3 feet over the gunwales to port and starboard as the bow of your little Arkansas Traveler slams into the waves...and somehow you know the 13 and a half horsepower motor's not cutting it...

The deep water may appear calm, but it holds a threat to security, our established ways of doing and being. That way lies uncertainty, adventure. What can a carpenter tell fishermen about their business? But Lord, if you says so...

Peter and the rest went out fishing at night using torches to draw the fish, which would come up to feed in the cool nights. During the day the fish headed away from the hot sunlight. They went into the deep water.

Fish in shallow water, all you catch is minnows.

Da Rev in CT


grace and peace

revgilmer (trying to stay warm like most of the country) in Texarkana

I had a fraternity brother from Texarkana named Tom Dodds. He told me about the goat ropers and cedar choppers in those parts. If you should run into him, tell him Charlton says hello for me. Thanks...

Da Rev in CT


I'm titling this week's sermon "An honest Fish Tale" (speaking of DIShonest fishermen). Peter's response to jesus' miracle is naked fear, not joy. I think this probably relates to the ancient belief that no sinful human could survive in the presence of God's holiness (e.g. the OT belief that no one could look upon God's face and live). Peter knows their catch is miraculous, explainable only by the fact that Jesus must be a very holy man. He asks Jesus to depart because he fears for his life. I think that is one big reason Christians don't do more to serve Christ. On his website, Richard Fairchild has a neat children's sermon to go with this text:

CHILDREN'S TIME: "God Will Lift Us Up" Object - Two children - almost the same height. Theme - God makes us able. Source - Self and Weisheit, The Gospel For Kids, Series C, 1979

Good morning -- Last week we talked about how each of us - no matter how little or how big is the just the right size to hold the gift of God's love. I want to talk a little more today about being the right size.

There are a lot of people who do not feel good enough to talk to God - or to help Jesus do his work in the world, to share his gift of love. Do you know why that might be?? (Do wrong things, don't have the ability)

And do you know what - they are right. None of is really good enough to help God out - none of us is as holy as God, or as special as Jesus. But God tells us to not be afraid of him or to worry about whether we have the ability to do what Jesus did. God asks us to help him give his gift of love to the world anyway. And God makes us able enough to do his work.

Let me show you something - I need two of you to stand here beside me -- which one of these is taller??? (Exchange one kid for another) Which is taller now??? Who is taller than me??? None of you??? So you couldn't reach as high as me??? Let's pretend for a minute that I am God. Here is what God does for those whom he asks to follow him and help him show his love in the world. PICK UP KID -- now you can reach where I reach -

God lifts us up too - God wants us to talk to him and work for him and God lifts us up so that we are able to do the work - he makes us able.

I think because Peter is honest about his fear, Jesus is able to help him, to assure him that God will "lift him up" so that he will be able to serve God and live a life worthy of the calling of God.

CB in Ohio, are you a member of the WV Conference, or a former member? I agree that a woman or an ethnic bishop (or both!) would be a great blessing to us and stir us up, but I hope and pray that WHOEVER our new bishop is, she/he will be a strong leaser and pastor!

P.S. Please continue to pray for me, sisters & brothers. My Feb.2 surgery was cancelled (2nd time!). I'm rescheduled now for Feb.11. I really want to get this over with so I can get back on my feet! Please remember me. Ken in WV


Oops! I should have marked the children's sermon off with quotes. It's easy to see where it begins. It ends with the words "he makes us able." Ken in WV


Cyrktrdr - thank you for reminding me of the fish video - I'd seen it before at a workshop and I think of it from time to time = but not this time, until now! It's sooooo true...

They catch people there - the bottom line: they catch people there. I wish we had the equipment to show it. (of course, the proper police might be scandalized).

Maybe for the 29th - we're calling it "leap of faith Sunday."

Sally


I hear some say the 21st century church is called to make church easy for people to relate and connect with(thousands and thousands of people are responding). While others are saying that we need to tell of God's uncomfortable, risky, leave everything behind call (many hundreds are responding). Which voices are the true prophets today? My inclination is the latter.

Some individuals, some churches, some church growth/transformation folks really get into goal setting, resulting in questions like do we aim low or do we aim high. This year we'll add 50 new people. There is excitement about churches with increasing numbers.

I am resistant. Is this resistance of God or my own hangup because I'm driven by integrity and the big picture?

It seems to me that this caves to the culture too much. Aren't we to use the language, stories, textures of the culture to be a bridge in worship and in sharing our faith, while holding on to the values and purposes of God?

I hear this text say that the blessing, the increase, the response of people to our sharing our experience of God is in God's hands, not ours. Isn't the response always going to be a surprise? Just like with the sheep and the goats? What is in our hands, our control? Recognizing/discerning God's voice and doing what God asks us to do. No more, no less and that's enough! JinCA

 


Great discussions this week.

I live along the coast of Maine and fishing is part of the industry here. Lobster fishing requires taking bait from a bait bucket and added that to the trap. It usually smells foul to humans but is attractive to lobsters. This metaphor reveals that to be catchers of folks, we must find what is appealing to those we seek.

My sermon is "What Is In Your Bait Bucket?"

This is about evangelism, and the "bait" we use is essential to attracting others into the fellowship of the body of Christ.

Once we attract others into the church, the real work begins. A friend who pastors a church north of here once used the sermon title: "Fishers of people, you catch them and I will clean them, signed Jesus."

A W-G rocky coast Me.


A W-G rocky coast Me.

Says we must find what is appealing to those we seek. I disagree. We must preach the true gospil. If we start preaching what they want we might catch a lot of fish (people) but will it be for God or just to have a large church.

JWS


A church near here has grown considerably since the new Pastor came. It had been a solid church, not in decline but also not growing, for many years. Suddenly, BAM, there were tons of new people coming. Some joined, some were college students who were regular attenders but not members, etc. A lot of youth started showing up. They were finding what they had been seeking in that little church. The old-time members cheered that Rev. Wonderful had "saved our church". Everyone was very happy.

But, when the Pastor left, the people who had been "caught" left too. They were not there for God or Jesus or the work of the Church. They hadn't suddenly got the Spirit. They were there because of Rev. Wonderful. He coached at the school. He led group singing. He was handsome as hell. When he left, the church lost its allure, and a good number trooped down the street to another church of a whole different denomination because they had a new Rev. Terrific on board. Others dropped out completely because they didn't like Rev. Terrific as much as they had loved Rev. Wonderful. I guess he didn't coach anything at the school.

Personally, I'd rather have my situation of a very small congregation of people who are there for the right reasons. I'm not all that interested in catching fish that plan to jump right back into the lake one day. The ones I've got have already been cleaned and proved they were a good catch.


Thanks for all the great posts. Seems like I have more questions than anwsers.

I can't help but wonder what our "nets" are?

Our faith? Our programing? Our advertising? The witness of how we live? Our service? Our community?

In other words, "What do we catch our fish with? pondering, Nancy-Wi


Sorry, forgot, "the saving grace of Jesus Christ" in the above list. Don't berate me but in general I find a lot of people really understand their need for true repentance. It seems like many have to learn about it from the ground up. Nancy-Wi


It amazes me how you can continue to find new ideas in the stories that you hear and preach on again and again!! Ya all have some good ones going.

My 3 chruches are all located along the Clark Fork River in Montana. I'm going to lead us on what one might call a guided meditation - only with their eyes open - we'll be out fishing on the clark fork, paddle in to shore and there he is - Jesus!! And he crawls into your boat and starts to talk not only to you, but to others from town that have gatehred on the river bank. And then he looks at YOU and says, leave your baggage behind and come follow me.

So what baggage would we all have to be left behind. I think not what we would expect. How about your feelings of impefection. I'm not good enough, versed enough in the scriptures - not holy enough to serve Jesus. How about my doubts, I just don't have all the answers yet. How can I serve Jesus with doubts? How about my fear of failure? How can I do it good enough, what if I can't catch any fish? Opps People. How about my fear of talking about Jesus and religious things? (just starting on my ideas of what we might leave behind in order to follow our own call.)

And just what is it that Jesus may be calling me to? For some it is to "get thee off to seminary" but for many more it is stay where you are and leave behind some of your attitudes, prejudices, unwillingness to forgive. For others it may be to get envolved in politics and or local government to help make changes that help the poor. Maybe you have influence with wealthy people. Wow!! You could be a prophet like Amos!! Okay now I really have some fears to leave behind. The fear of not being understood, or worse yet being understood and just plain rejected or scorned because I'm not in steep with the times. Don't we church folks all need to be out of step with the "world" and in steep with the idea of Jesus' Upside Down Kingdom. Helping the least and last to be first and the first to move over and give a hand up to the ones getting trampled on. Whew!!

All for now - got any more ideas for me?

jmj in mt


To JWS,

I am not suggesting that setting the bait and attracting folks is the end of the work. As I stated once new folks come into the church the "real work" begins! It is here that the role of the preacher/pastor is to help them make their commitment to Christ, and NOT to the pastor, or the music, or the programs. Any programs or ministries will develop as the commitment grows.

Our job is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and illustrate how that is intergated into everyday life. We do this by Word, Sacrament and example.

A W-G rocky coast Me.


Unsigned -

Something similar to that happened here, only Rev. Wonderful, to my eyes, used that church to spawn a new church - and not only quit one day with no notice, but took the staff with him.

I don't know if it's about choosing our fish, however, than about choosing how we use our net.

We're not Rev. Wonderfuls, most of us, so it's natural to be a little jealous of the glitz (I know I was jealous of the Rev. Wonderful above). Even though we see that it's often more glitz than substance. Is it the fish's fault?

No, it just means our nets have to be all the stronger.

Sally


How about this for a sermon title:

"A Catch and Release Program…"

With grins,

pulpitt in ND


Nancy in WI asked what are our nets....?

Great question! And it reminded me of a sermon I preached at a baptism on completely different texts! The little girl being baptized was named "Maya" -- she was of Native American descent and in the sermon, I used a "dream catcher" as an illustration. This is what I said in part of the sermon:

let's just look at the web of strings.

Imagine that this hoop is the world; everyone in the world is either on the hoop inside it. Each junction of string with hoop or with string is a person holding on to his or her part of the net. What happens when I move a part of the web? Every other part of the web, every connection, every junction, is affected; each person is moved in some way. It's unavoidable. The web may allow anonymity, but by its very nature it cannot allow un-affectedness.

That's just one of the things about Maya's world that we who grew up in different worlds need to appreciate. There was a time when what happened in East Timor or Taiwan or even North Carolina was of really very little significance to someone in Kansas; but as means of communication have developed from wire to radio to television to the Internet, that is no longer so. Political oppression in East Timor, an earthquake in Taiwan, flooding in North Carolina are no longer things that can be ignored. What St. Paul believed happens spiritually in baptism is, in some way, the physical and political reality of the modern world: "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female," wrote Paul in his letter to the churches of Galatia (Galatians 3:28). Today in our "global village," there can no be longer Timorese or Carolinian; there can no longer be politically oppressed or democratically free; there can no longer be "us" or "them." In the words of the old hymn, there is no East or West, no South or North.

What, then, is the point of what we are about to do here? If the world is all interconnected and interdependent, is there any reason for us to continue the ritual of connection and adoption which is baptism? Well, yes, there is.

Think for a minute about all the things that are made up of strands of string, all the different forms that a mesh of lines tied and stretched can take. This new thing that we old folks are learning to use, but which to Maya will be old and familiar, is called "the 'Net" or "the Web." Nets and webs can be put to use for good or ill. Like the dream catcher, they might keep out what is bad and let in only what is good. Like a safety net stretched under a trapeze, they might catch us and keep us from harm when we fall. Like a fisherman's seine, they might gather in that which can nourish and sustain us. On the other hand, nets and webs might be like the snare of the fowler which catches the unwary. They might be like the tangled web of deception.

We can't guarantee that the connections and conjunctions that will form in Maya's life will always be of the better variety. We can't guarantee that the ties that bind her to others will be always be blessed, like unto those above. We can't guarantee that .... but we can pray for it and we can live it out and we can set Maya on the path to working with God to weave a network, a web, a life in which the connections are not simply the indifferent lines of the internet, but the bonds of love. We set Maya on that path through the Sacrament of Baptism.

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Nancy's question got me to thinking that this "web of baptism" (that was the title of the sermon, by the way) is our "net" for catching all those "fish"... the lives we live, which (according to a schmaltzy poem I used in that sermon as well) are woven by God, are the nets we should be using to catch others for Christ.

The URL for that semon, by the way, is http://thefunstons.com/sermons/a100399.html (Remember, don't use the feedback form -- the links don't work -- I really must get back to that website and put it back together.)

Blessings, Eric in OH


Deep Spirituality, In Cuba, I preached in English, and was translated by another women. The most powerful witness I had was the sincerity of my voice. The message I strongly blieve was quite incidental to the Spirit working through me, shining in my eyes and face, and being expressed in the movement of my body. Since this was such a different preaching exprience for me, I prayed without ceasing that the Spirit be with me and I gave my voice and mind over. Maybe deep spirituality is when you have confidence in who is speaking and it isn't you. Hope this makes sense. Nancy-Wi


JUst remembered a terrific quote by Tom Long in his book "Shepherds and Bathrobes" (the original title was "Something is About To Happen" I think)"to some the call will come to leave their nets, to others the call to tend their nets more carefully

revgilmer in texarkana


Seminary Cindy,

You feel the calling to preach "grace, grace" and yet I am learning that as a Lutheran preacher I can preach a sermon that appears to be Law or works oriented and still be preaching God's Grace. What I mean by this is that when we preach the Bible it will always naturally convict us and tell us what we should really be doing and how we should really be living. The Grace part comes when the hearer realizes that no one can do such a thing on their own and we are all left to call out to God and ask that His grace give us the strength to do His will. Telling people every week that God loves them is not Grace, it's cheap Grace. Allowing the individual to realize how dependent they are on God's grace is priceless.

A pastor on the Jersey Shore...


RJ in KS Flatlands Many thanks what a site! nancy-Wi


A friend came across something Will Willimon wrote about this passage in which when those "fishers of people" meant they were to "take 'em alive." Catch them alive, transform them by showing them Christ, and then letting them go back into the water. Don't know where he got it but it gave it a different slant. What a wonderful Sunday to invite people to go out and invite someone to church for next Sunday!

Mark in WI


In the line of the conversation between "A W-G rocky coast Me" and "JWS" a parallel scripture is Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman at the well. That story is no more about water than this story is about fish. Both are about Jesus and about life, as Peter and the Samaritan woman eventually recognize. Water and fish are "bait", but unfortunately the people around Jesus kept mistaking the "special effects" for the "substance" we all need. You can even add the Isaiah 6 passage into this understanding. Christians weren't devastated when the Temple was destroyed because they understood that the power wasn't in the coal. It wasn't even in the seraph who carried the coal. The power was in God, where it has always been and always will be. I'm not one of those who writes there sermon on Monday or Tuesday. Mine gets done on Friday or Saturday. That's why this comment is too later than most. Thanks to all who have written good stuff so far.

Alan Selig


Sorry that this is so late, but then, you all are probably far beyond my little insight. While I was shoveling the snow from my driveway this morning, it suddenly hit me: It was the great bounty (gift, graciousness, etc.) of God that apparently produced guilt in Peter. Not the Law. Not condemnation. Not someone telling him how bad he was. Not an angry God, but rather a loving, giving, gracious God. Despite the sucess of Jonathan Edward's famous sermon, I find this fascinating. Too bad it's Friday. I'd like to have a week to think about this. Any ideas from anyone else? LB in MN


To: A pastor on the Jersey Shore: I just now read your comment. I agree with you if you are saying that God can do marvelous things with our words; gracious ones sometimes are heard by the conrgegation as condemnation, condemning words sometimes are heard as grace; hopefully God sorts it all out as it is needed. But I'm sure you would agree that when the Bible says that God loves them (actually, I'd prefer us)that it is not cheap grace to preach to them (us) that God loves them (us.) Actually, it occures to me that there may be no substantive difference between God's love and God's grace. What do you think? LB in MN


Since believers are simul iustus et peccator, the proclaimed word of God can be interpreted as either Law or Gospel, depending upon whether it is "filtered" by the sinner or by the saint.

The sinner in us will always rebel and despise, while the saint in us will always rejoice in the Word.

We are called to preach faithfully, and not try and determine the impossible task of how the message will be interpreted - that is up to the Holy Spirit and the individual.

I'd suggest reviewing CFW Walther's theses from "The Proper Distinction between Law & Gospel". Keeping in mind, that Luther said that anyone who can always properly distinguish between the two should automatically be given a doctorate in theology.

Luther in IA