Scripture Text (NRSV)
Luke 21:5-19
21:5 When some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned
with beautiful stones and gifts dedicated to God, he said,
21:6 "As for these things that you see, the days will come when not
one stone will be left upon another; all will be thrown down."
21:7 They asked him, "Teacher, when will this be, and what will be
the sign that this is about to take place?"
21:8 And he said, "Beware that you are not led astray; for many
will come in my name and say, 'I am he!' and, 'The time is near!' Do
not go after them.
21:9 "When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified;
for these things must take place first, but the end will not follow
immediately."
21:10 Then he said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and
kingdom against kingdom;
21:11 there will be great earthquakes, and in various places
famines and plagues; and there will be dreadful portents and great
signs from heaven.
21:12 "But before all this occurs, they will arrest you and
persecute you; they will hand you over to synagogues and prisons, and
you will be brought before kings and governors because of my name.
21:13 This will give you an opportunity to testify.
21:14 So make up your minds not to prepare your defense in advance;
21:15 for I will give you words and a wisdom that none of your
opponents will be able to withstand or contradict.
21:16 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, by
relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.
21:17 You will be hated by all because of my name.
21:18 But not a hair of your head will perish.
21:19 By your endurance you will gain your souls.
Comments:
The first couple of these verses remind me of the saying, "The church
is what you have left when the building burns down and the preacher
leaves town." Are our congregations living as the body of Christ, or
are our beautiful buidings more important (or our elaborate programs,
etc.)?
Right now I don't know what this has to do with the rest of the
passage, but it just came to me.
Mel in NE
When I read verse 9 " When you hear about wars and revolutions, do not
be frightened ", I am stopped cold with the events of September 11th.
I think about the Christians in Germany in WWII with Hitler. For them
the historical events must have moved more quickly than their faith
could accommodate...except for a very few. The Christian Church
majority was silent
Today, What is the voice of the Christian majority? Should we be
listening to the majority or the minority....Jesus wasn't a majority
kind of person because the majority, in his time seemed to be looking
after their own interest,not the common interest.
I think I have to ask if " my " interest is in the common interest?
I don't think that the " Christian " interest in the U.S.A. is
automatically the " common " interest.
I, just, think that Jesus would not be bombing Afganistan...hitting
innocent people. Period! There is something about this war which
doesn't correspond to my faith and I don't feel unpatriotic to my
country, the U.S.A.
I remember my first trip into New York City. We stayed underground
untill we were just under Rockerfeller Center. Being from rural
Montana, when we saw the magnificent buildings, our mouths dropped.
"As for these things that you see, the days will come when not one
stone will be left upon another; all will be thrown down."
Steve Hermes Cascade Mt.
What does it mean that God protects us in the last couple of verses of
this lesson? Those are pretty important words to our people these
days.
JB in MB
Last Sunday I preached on our security being in the God of the living,
and living confidently toward "resurrection life."
This seems so similar. We put our faith in what we can see, touch,
hold... But our salvation and ultimate safety/security is in the
Lord... The passage seems to say cling fast and do not fear, in spite
of all that goes on around you. And don't be AFRAID to CHALLENGE what
is EVIL; again, our ultimate hope is in the Lord, not the physical
"stuff."
Anything else?
Deb in the 'burgh
There seem to be two common threads in all this week's lessons: that
of the need for working for the Lord in good times and in bad and the
promise of the hope that is a product of our ultimate security in God.
Early thoughts, no preaching theme yet!
Sally in GA
P.S. Please pray for my family and me; we buried my father last week.
JB in MB -
I see this as pointing towards the security that our lives are
entirely in God's hands, and that in Christ we have the courage to
face the most painful and frightening times in the steadfastness of
God's love.
Sally in GA
What can be said, or needs be said about verse 14: "So make up your
minds not to prepare your defense in advance;"?
I think some folks, and lots of folks in some situations, tend to get
defensive. I do. That is when we quit witnessing to what we know and
have experienced, and start arguing against what we don't and haven't.
I can't tell you where your religion is wrong, at least not in any
sense you are likely to accept. But I can tell you what Christ has
done in my life and why my confidence is in Him, and maybe you will
hear in your heart God saying "I have that for you too".
When we spend all our time concentrating on negatives, or preparing
for debates that don't ever arise, we are wasting our time and God's
blessings. Find the good thing to say and say it. Better yet, live it.
If our faith needs defending, trust God to give us the words, at that
time, that will speak to that person.
Can anyone add a thought about that? tom in TN(USA)
I was down near ground zero today, just 30 minutes after the plane
crashed in Queens. The fear was palpable, voices muffled, almost
silent walking, the smell is still there, smoke lingers in the air,
the tangled mess of steel is a visual reminder of the terror-now it is
two months later and the lectionary is dealing with hope in the face
of seeminly insurmountable obstacles. Isaiah - hope that a new heaven
and earth will be created, hope that God remains with us in all
adversity. The people of my congregations (I serve two churches) are
seekig hope and some form of certainty. We know that the only
certainty and constancy is God, yet, how to communicate that in a way
that is heard through the fear and anxiety. I am searching.
Rev E.
In the book of Revelation in Chapter 1:14 it describe One like the Son
of Man. "His head and His hair were white like white wool (as white) a
snow. If we think about hair in a symbolic way perhaps we could
understand .... He did not parish ...He gain his (our) soul so to
speak. Just some thoughts.... LPinPA
I think that the text is talking about persecution for the sake of the
faith. That God will give the words, not to rely upon ourselves. No
matter how horrible the events of the day our security lies in Christ.
Nothing else. Period. vvicars in pa
I think that the text is talking about persecution for the sake of the
faith. That God will give the words, not to rely upon ourselves. No
matter how horrible the events of the day our security lies in Christ.
Nothing else. Period. vvicars in pa
An opportunity to testify! Great. In a big church service? On TV? No,
in fact you'll be in front of kings and governors. Fantastic! They'll
really roll out the red carpet. Well, actually you'll be responding to
a threat of death or life imprisonment. Now that's what I'd call a
desperate preacher. Peace, Petereo
To Sally, Prayers are with you and yours....I too lost my beloved
father at this time of the year (6 years ago).....Thanksgiving, Advent
and Christmas will be difficult AND a wonderful authentic connection
with the resurrection.
Blessings Child of God. REV SLPE NY
Sally-Ga My smpathy on your loss. I have not lost a parent yet. I can
only imagine. May your memories and your faith be of strength and
comfort to you in these times of sadness. grace and peace, Nancy-Wi
Two images to "play" with while working on a sermon this week... both
from Jeanie Moos's CNN report this morning:
First image: Women in the Rockaway neighborhood of Queens donating
their linens (bed sheets, table cloths) to be used as shrouds for the
dead from the crash of AA Flt. 587; a large pile of sheets near a fire
truck waiting to be used....
Second image: Arching over the scene of destruction, visible through
the smoke of the burning plane and houses and through the steam rising
from the fire hoses' pouring water, a rainbow in the blue sky above.
Somehow both of these witness to endurance ....
Blessings, Eric in KS
By the way ... the RCL provides for the use of Isaiah Ch 12 (the First
Song of Isaiah) as an alternative to the Psalm. As we used Ps. 98 last
week in our Mass, we will be taking that alternative in my parish. The
2nd V. of Isa. 12 (in the American Episcopal BCP version) reads
thusly:
"Surely, it is God who saves me; I will trust in him and not be
afraid."
This ties very neatly with this lesson, don't you think?
Blessings, Eric in KS
Dear 21:18:18 Maybe you should take a good look at the Old Testament
and how often God told the Israelites to annialiate their enemies.
Then Look at the judgement that is comming in Revelations. There were
six thousand innocent people in the towers and on those planes. tell
me who else but the USA would drop food for their enemies as well as
bombs ang go out of their way to spare the lives of innocent people.
Harold in Alabama
Since this is the sunday before thanksgiving, I really want to preach
a bit on blessings and thanks. Anyone else going that direction? I the
confidence to take on all unbelievers with out preparation a blessing?
Opportunities to testify are blessings. Are we only blessed by
material things? Is being blessed feeling good, right with God. Just a
train of thought here. Nancy-Wi
Harold in Alabama wrote: "who else but the USA would drop food for
their enemies"
Let's be clear ... we are NOT dropping food for our enemies. We are
dropping food for innocent Afghans who have been victimized by the
Taliban extremists; we are dropping food for innocent Afghans whose
country has been used as a base by the Al-Qaeda terrorists. We are NOT
dropping food for the Taliban or the Al-Qaeda. Perhaps we should
("love your enemies" and all that) but we aren't.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Sally,
We have been praying for you and your Dad and will continue to lift
you up during this season of grief.
pastor binny
Nancy-WI Yes, I am wanting to preach on Thanksgiving this Sunday. I am
really struggling with keeping with the text in Luke. I want to thank
all of you for your wisdom and insight. I visit here each week and
gleen the pearls from with-in. I usually don't feel I have much to
contribute, but maybe some day. I just started preaching in June so I
am pretty green. Thanks to all and Have a Happy Thanksgiving! HBinTX
Dear Sally in GA,
May God comfort and sustain you and your family in your time of grief;
and may the promise and hope of the resurrection heal your pain and
regrets, and magnify the celebration of your father's life. Grace and
peace be with you.
And to all the desperate preachers: Thanks for the images and
discussion so far. One of the things I find myself thinking about is
something from out there in the world that I read yesterday about
hope. It was an article about someone named BION who has developed a
theory about how groups work, and includes the dynamic of "basic
assumptions," one of which is all about hope. He says that hope ceases
to be hope when the things hoped for become manifest, or get born. His
article actually presents it as a negative (at least for the life of a
group), but maybe that's when it becomes faith. Anyway, it seemed just
a little too synchronistic to me (as opposed to coincidental) when I'm
focusing this week on the "hope" of gaining our souls by our
endurance, for this article to just come to me.
I apreciate the contribution about looking at this passage in light of
it being Thanksgiving Sunday, and the response about preparing
defenses being a waste of time and blessings when we could much better
be living our faith.
I have a sense that the direction I'm going with this is about hope
and endurance and gaining our souls, but it's not very clear yet. I
suppose I might start with the human condition that faces endings . .
.
Forgive me if I ramble. I hope someone finds some of this useful.
Again, thanks for your thoughts.
Janice in Ks
Hello, This is my first contribution to this site. I am wrestling with
the issue of economic downturn for many of my parishioners here in
suburban Chicago. My senior pastor reported last night at church
council that three more members of St.Andrew's were laid off. We are
seeing offerings go down week by week since September 11th. At the
same time we are considering a building program, and yet we cannot
find anyone enthusiastic about doing evangelism. It seems we have lost
a vision of what it means to be the church. And yet there in the
gospel lesson from Luke Jesus says "This will give you an opportunity
to testify."(Luke 21:13) Members are reevaluating their priorities.
Some of our laid off members are giving of their time and talents to
various task forces. I see members taking the time to "testify" in the
midst of uncertain economic times. Rambling on in northern Illinois
To Rambling in N. Il.
Keep the faith. Perhaps those laid off with extra time on their hands
could engage in ministry. How about visiting some of the older members
who appreciate visits, or a telephone ministry to young families or
those recovering from illnesses. While being laid off will have some
economic effects this might also be a good time to speak to people
about being in ministry.
Just a thought. Paula in Fl
The sound of the shovel once again rang off the concrete like ground.
A hundred, a thousand, ten thousand times the bladed edge of the
makeshift-digging device bit into the rocky earth. The sweat poured
from his lean features, mixed with the blood from raw hands, and then
dripped to the dust below, the dust that exploded upward like little
angry cyclones each time the spade made contact with the unyielding
ground. The digging would have been difficult for the most fit, but
for him, for a body battered by lack of proteins, for a spirit
assaulted by the maelstrom that swirled around his world, the digging
wasn’t difficult. It was sheer agony. Each movement was a monumental
effort; each forward thrust of the blade a marathon.
To dig was a Herculean task, but not to dig … to not dig meant certain
death, death from the raging winds and bitter cold, death from the
freezing rain which would turn the now rocky surface into a quagmire
of sucking mud, death from the biting sand carried by the hurricane
force winds, death even from the snow which in other places and other
times would have been welcomed as a soft, beautiful blanket over the
hostile landscape. Now, even the snow was just another way to die. And
he would have, he would have died. He would have lied upon the rocks
and welcomed death as an end to the suffering, except for them.
Instead, he once again plunged the metal blade downward, hoping the
hole would be enough to protect them. Nine feet by five feet and few
feet deep. Nine feet by five feet of space in which he, his wife, and
his five children would live through the winter, if one could really
call this existence living. Nine feet by five feet in which to suffer,
huddled against one another, embracing one another to make the most of
the other’s body heat. Nine feet by five feet of hope, hope for
tomorrow, hope that other holes would not be dug.
The recent past of those in this place was filled with the digging of
other holes. Thousands of jumbled mounds dotted the hillside
stretching above them, punctuating the existence of those holes that
were now filled with the bodies of those who had not survived the past
winter. Each time he looked up from the digging, he was reminded of
the small bodies of other men’s children who had been carried to that
hillside. Each time he raised his eyes he caught another glimpse of a
possibility too horrible to contemplate, a future where he too might
make the journey to the hillside. With bleeding hands and labored
breath, he continued to dig, to dig for life, life for himself and
life for his children.
A world away another man struggles. His hands do not bleed. His
children do not suffer. His, by any measurement, is a most secure
life. He contemplates that which happens far from his home, the bombs
which fall from his nation’s aircraft, the voices from his nation’s
leaders which call the people to arms in order that they might stamp
out hatred from the world, the proclamation from his nation’s churches
which seem to say that there is no other way, no other way to secure
life other than by the bombs and the blood and the death. He ponders
these things and he wonders why he is not being persecuted. But he
doesn’t wonder for long, the truth is too painful.
Every now and then, the man who digs stops to catch his breath when he
is forced to seek a momentary respite from the sheer physicalness of
the agony. And in those moments he too wonders, he wonders if anyone
really cares. Here in the midst of falling bombs and warring armies,
here in this place where Jesus says he might be found, here among “the
least of these,” he wonders if anyone cares at all … anyone? And then,
he wipes his brow and once again plunges the spade downward. Jesus
wipes his brow and plunges his spade downward.
Shalom my friends,
Nail-Bender in NC
The founder of YWAM (Youth With a Mission) tells of how they started
with a vision to build a ship. God blessed their vision and they got
it. But eventually, they realized that they started worshipping the
ship (temple) rather than God. Images of the crators where the World
Trade Centers stood still flash across the screen and our minds. It's
easy to focus on the acheivements of the Temple, or it's easy to focus
on the fear that comes from seeing the "holes." The point seems to be,
no matter what, come what may, wealth or poverty, joy or tragedy, we
need to keep our eyes on Jesus. Dan
My dear fellow sojourners,
In the midst of violence, I wonder why it is that we are not handed
over and persecuted. Could it be that we are not handed over because
our voice is no longer the voice which points to truth? Could it be
that we have made Jesus into our image, an image which sees no
difference from obedience to Christ and obedience to Caesar? Could it
be that we are not dragged before our religious leaders and our
national leaders because we have in fact, become Caesar? Is the
seduction this complete?
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Thank you for trying to relate this passage to Thanksgiving. I love it
when the text rubs the wrong way for a season. I also love how all of
the thoughts here develope together. Maybe we can learn to be thankful
for those things which cannot be destroyed, as someone else mentioned,
rather than material blessings and buildings. DGinNYC
I'll also repeat the question I posted under Isaiah. Is destruction
necessary to new life, to a new creation? (I wish and hope not, but it
certainly seems Biblical...) DGinNYC
DGinNYC: "Thank you for trying to relate this passage to Thanksgiving.
I love it when the text rubs the wrong way for a season."
Well, it really doesn't rub the wrong way for "the season", does it?
The season is the end of "ordinary time" and the beginning of a
transition into Advent and, thus, we have a shift of perspective
toward the eschaton. Thanksgiving Day isn't a "season" of the church;
it's a secular holiday which the American congress chose to place in
late November (the Canadian version is 5-6 weeks earlier). So the
contrast here is not between the lessons and the season, but between
the church's season and the country's holiday.
Blessings, Eric in KS
For a Jewish person, the beautiful temple of Jerusalem stood as a
constant reminder of the presence of God among His people. Its
grandeur and magnitude were a symbol of the righteousness of the
Jewish people. And it stood for far more than just the religious
focus. It was also the political and moral decision centre of Judaism.
It contained the Sanhedrin and the Jewish courts. It was designed to
be a powerful symbol of the earthly presence of God, and had the
authority to make judgements about what was righteousness or sin.
For this to no longer exist, meant that the Jewish people would be
placed in a position of political and moral turmoil. It is important
to note that to many Jews, it's destruction literally meant that God
was no longer in control, or that the God of Israel, was not as
powerful as other gods. And yet, this is exactly what Jesus is
suggesting is necessary for the very people it was meant to offer
security to. Jesus is suggesting that the people will gain their souls
from the turmoil which results, rather than the comfortable security
that they currently enjoyed by its presence.
People often associate pain and trouble as the absence of God, or that
God is punishing them. Jesus, is making the observation, that it is
often only in the face of adversity and pain, that we most often are
willing to allow God to speak to us. It is most often when we do not
have cliched answers, or glib replies to issues, or dependancy upon
crutches, that we are most open to learning more about the will and
desire of God for us.
Yes, it hurts to be placed in this position of vulnerability, and yet
it is necessary for our soul. This is what this passage addresses.
Jesus is preparing the disciples for the way of the cross, not only in
his life, but in the life of every disciple who claims to follow Him
in the future. In the Christian life, there is no where to lay our
head, no place that we can rest from our labours, other than in our
faith in Christ. It is a life of constant pursuit for the truth of the
Spirit. It is a life of daily endurance, to live out our life as God
requires.
How different this is, to those who join Christianity, to find easy
answers and quick solutions to their struggles. Jesus in this passage
puts paid to any who would build Christianity into a temple of
absolute doctrine and dogma. This is not a church, the world desires,
because it cannot be controlled or contained. It is therefore not a
popular picture of the church, that many in the western world
appreciate. It is a church that always lives in uncertainty and
openness to movement of the Spirit of God. This is not a comfortable
passage for any of us who have dared to suggest that we now have the
divine way summed up.
By your endurance you will gain your souls. That's what we do day by
day, year by year, as we continue our journey of understanding. Jesus
in his prophetic role, does not come to bring peace but a fire.
I do not believe this means we have to get rid of our buildings, but
it does suggest we have to be very careful about what we place our
faith in.
Sorry, I've gone on a bit.
Regards to all for a productive week.
KGB in Aussie.
"By your endurance you will gain your souls." This verse has caught my
attention. Is this not the utimate blessing? gaining our souls? Our
love of God and our mission on earth is maintained in the face of
adversity. Still musing but the Title is " the Ultimate Blessing" .
Nancy-Wi
I'll bite! Is destruction necessary to new life, to a new creation? It
is an intriguing question. If Christ transforms us then we must
consider the possibility of some type of destruction. Perhaps it could
be the destruction of false idols, false Gods. Perhaps it is the False
idols could be materialistic "got to haves or I'll die", loyality to a
football team that usurps God time on Sunday's (I hate really early
Packer game!
I find it so fascinating in the midst of destruction we drop food for
life. Through the feeding we are saving lives that could still
persecute us. In refugee camps we provide what we can so that a nation
can rebuild. Given the history of the region there is no guarantee
that in the future our works of mercy may not return to us as
perscutions or destruction. We still use our hands as Jesus taught in
those places.
Some mutterings, Nancy-Wi
DG asked "Is destruction necessary to new life?"
Paul certainly seemed to think so. Over and over again he speaks of
"dying" to his old life in order to be born again in Christ. This is
perhaps most clear in the Epistle for the Easter Vigil (from Romans
3):
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ
Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we have been buried
with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised
from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in
newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like
his, we will certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of
sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
I don't know if we want to equate "death" with "destruction" -- but
Paul seems to in v. 6 above. (He seems to make the same equation in 2
Corinthians 5:1 -- "For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is
destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands,
eternal in the heavens.") I would argue that we are talking only about
"material" or "apparent" destruction. To me, "destruction" implies
cessation of existence, while "death" is merely a change of condition
("life is changed, not ended" as reads the Proper Preface for a
Requiem Eucharist in Episcopal Book of Common Prayer). So I would
qualify an answer to DG's question as "Yes, material or earthly or
"spiritual" destruction, e.g., death or "death to sin", is required
for rebirth and new life.
Blessings, Eric in KS
I agree with the contributor who talked about the material stuff. We
certainly do love all the material things of this world, the beauty
and adornment. But when the times really get tough, to whom or to what
do we turn. Some turn to the lottery, gambling, the bottle, drugs,
some even try to trust all the beautiful stuff that is their
possessions, when during the tough times the one possession that
really matters is Jesus Christ who keeps his promises and will always
be with us. We need to place our faith, trust, belief, and hope in Him
during our times of distress and grief. Our endurance during hard
times comes from Christ. I received an e-mail from one of my
parishioners concerning Max Lucado's impression of President Bush.
Lucado recently attended a prayer breakfast along with several other
well known pastors. Thinking that President Bush would look tired out
in the midst of all the tragedy, he asked the President how he could
look so calm and peaceful. Bush's answer to Lucado was, "I feel
stronger now than I've every been in my life, and the reason is
because every person in America is praying for me. When I stay on my
knees, that's when I have power." All of us, pastors and laity need to
take a lesson and spend more time on our knees not only during the
tragic times but also during the good times. Jesus Christ will never
forsake us. Rick in ND
How easy it is for us to see what is not important and miss what is
truly important. We miss the point of this text if we get caught up in
any of the things mentioned--buildings, false teachers, end times,
natural disasters, persecutions, betrayals and defense of the
faith.The point rests in verses 18 and 19, we belong to God regardless
of what happens to our cities, our reputation, our homes or our
familes. The old Gospel hymn sums it up, "You have all the rest, just
give me Jesus." GE in IL
The people in this scripture were caught up in the beauty of the
building. I remember one Sunday in my second parish. On the ends of
the pews were memorial placques. Given by, etc. So, I was greeting
people and welcomed some I had not seen before. They introduced
themselves. "I suppose you have heard of the famous Kratz family?"
"No," I replied. "Well this is a pew we donated to the church." This
same church had almost a split over buying new pews and refinishing
the old dark oak in the building. People worship buildings more than
they do God. The church I grew up in as a child needs to move. The old
sanctuary was replaced by a new one in the late 50's. I grew up in it,
was baptized (by immersion) there and it means a lot to me. But I know
they need to move. The oldest members are having a cow, even though
they no longer minister to the people in the neighborhood (as if they
ever did) and they have to have a security guard to make them feel
safe. And what of new contemporary worship? Don't the old stones need
to be open to new styles of worship otherwise, no stone will be left
upon another? We are worshipping our habits. We have forgotten our
Good Commission to go out and minister, baptize, teach and make
disciples! PH in OH
A thanksgiving story... maybe I told you all this story already... if
so, sorry for the repeat...
Thanksgiving is coming? what are you thankful for? With the recent
additional American Airlines tragedy in the Queens Neighborhood in the
Bronx of New York, I?m thankful for the little things in my life. As I
write this note, I look out my office window to the heavens from
whence my help comes and I see a blue surreal sky filled with hope and
the possibility of yet another wonderful Mid-November sunset that
feels more like one in late September. It is gorgeous! The other day,
I overheard a proud grandmother recounting a story to Sharon (our
secretary)in the other office. I only heard bits and pieces of the
story, so when ?Grandma? left? I asked Sharon, ?What was all that
laughter about?? It seems that the Grandmother?s Grandson turned 4
this past May? and he?s a very sensitive young man with a very deep
faith for his age. He and his mother were having a ?discussion? as
mothers and sons are known to have from time to time. (Especially if
you?re 4 years old!) The conversation went something like this? ?Yes,
you do!? ?No, I don?t? ?Yes, you do!? ?No, I don?t? ?Yes, you do!?
?No, I don?t? or words to that affect. With that, the 4-year-old
son?turned, and walked away from his mother, down the hallway? to his
bedroom? and shut the door. The mother went about her daily chores and
thought little of her son?s escape? ?Boys will be boys?? she mused.
About 5 minutes later, her 4-year-old son returned from his bedroom.
?Mom, I just prayed for some patience? and I think maybe you?d better
too!? Ouch? kind of puts the problems of that ?house? in perspective.
It especially puts the problems of the world in a universal language.
For, it is the little things in life that make the greatest impact on
our lives.
pulpitt in ND
"I will lift my eyes to the hills from where will my help come? My
help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth." (NRSV) Psalm
121:1-2 "A little more thankful!"
Thanksgiving is coming? what are you thankful for? With the recent
additional American Airlines tragedy in the Queens Neighborhood in the
Bronx of New York, I'm thankful for the little things in my life. As I
write this note, I look out my office window to the heavens from
whence my help comes and I see a blue surreal sky filled with hope and
the possibility of yet another wonderful Mid-November sunset that
feels more like one in late September. It is gorgeous! The other day,
I overheard a proud grandmother recounting a story to Sharon in the
other office. I only heard bits and pieces of the story, so when
"Grandma" left? I asked Sharon, "What was all that laughter about?" It
seems that the Grandmother?s Grandson turned 4 this past May? and he?s
a very sensitive young man with a very deep faith for his age. He and
his mother were having a ?discussion? as mothers and sons are known to
have from time to time. (Especially if you?re 4 years old!) The
conversation went something like this? "Yes, you do!" "No, I don't"
"Yes, you do!" "No, I don't" "Yes, you do!" "No, I don't? or words to
that affect. With that, the 4-year-old son?turned, and walked away
from his mother, down the hallway? to his bedroom? and shut the door.
The mother went about her daily chores and thought little of her son?s
escape? "Boys will be boys"? she mused. About 5 minutes later, her
4-year-old son returned from his bedroom. "Mom, I just prayed for some
patience? and I think maybe you'd better too!" Ouch? kind of puts the
problems of that "house" in perspective. It especially puts the
problems of the world in a universal language. For, it is the little
things in life that make the greatest impact on our lives.
Tried to take the "?" out... sorry about that...
pulpitt in ND
Thank you for pondering my question about destruction and new life. I
don't like the idea that death or destruction are necessary. But I
can't avoid it. We are doing two adult baptisms on Sunday, and I
always teach the Romans 3 passage for baptism preparation. It's just
that it all seems so violent.
I've been thinking further. One of the Gods Hindus worship is Shiva,
the God of Destruction. Destruction is really part of life, part of
nature, part of the way God made the earth. (Thanks for the John 12
reminder). But while some kind of destruction may be necessary to new
life, destruction does not necessarily lead to life. It can lead to
retaliation, or depression, or just plain waste. It's God's activity
(as in the Isaiah passage: Behold, I make all things new) that brings
the new life, and our cooperation or participation in God's activity.
Still working on this.
I have another question. Does anyone know why the temple in Jerusalem
has not been rebuilt since its destruction in 70 AD?
Thank you all for being out there. DGinNYC
DGinNYC --
Something about your last posting reminded me that Robert Oppenheimer
quoted from the Indian Bhagavad-Gita on the occasion of the first
nuclear explosion: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." I
don't know why... it just came to me.
Why hasn't the Temple been rebuilt? Because there hasn't been a Jewish
nation (until the last half of the last Century) to do so. And in
modern times, there has been a mosque on the site (well, actually a
shrine -- the Dome of the Rock) and there would be hell to pay if that
were destroyed to allow rebuilding of the Temple.
Blessings, Eric in KS
How about combining Thanksgiving with the lessons for this Sunday with
this theme: Thanks for the Future. I will lift up the hope that God
gives ALL of us--even if our families will not be around our table on
T-day, even if there isn't much food to put on table. And what we can
do with that hope--in sharing it with others. Sharon in Bethlehem
Amidst the cracking of the walls, the nations do rise against one
another. Yet, the voices, for the most part, remain silent. Few, if
any, are brought before the Powers. The Powers have no reason, for the
cry that carries one to the cross is little more than a whisper. Why
crucify one who can more readily be seduced? The famines come and the
famines go. Countless suffer, wither and die. The earthquakes of
injustice rumble across the lands. Rocks are tossed out against tanks.
Homes. The “other” are pulled from their homes. Many loose their homes
to corporate wealth. Some never know what it is to be in a real home.
The ones who are “they” make their homes in a muddy pit, far away in a
place where dying is a release. A tent. A hole. A piece of plastic.
Homes.
Opportunities to testify flash from a reality that is never noted. No
one is hated. No one betrayed. There is no need. And once again, as if
ordained by God, death claims the victory. The lie wins.
And the Voice that says “by your endurance …” dies on the sounds of
the bugles, as if it never existed at all.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Thank you for your words Rev. E. I think you are wrestling with the
heart of this Apocalyptic text. This passage was written just before
Jesus was arrested. It was written in the context of immanent
destruction and persecution. It speaks a word to people whose lives
have been (or are about to be) flattened.
In this sense, our Afghani brothers and sisters probably have a better
chance of hearing the truth of this passage than we satisfied
Americans.
I'm from the SouthWest so we feel some what distanced from the fear
and anxiety that must be present in NY and DC. But I think a passage
like this begs to be read at the edge of Ground Zero. It is a word for
people who are dangling on the edge of disaster and need HOPE. Yes you
will be hated, Yes you will be murdered. Every stone will be thrown
down, BUT I will hold your life in my hands. These words spoken by a
God who is fully congnizant of the suffering and death his disciples
are about to undergo. Therefore these words can only mean that God is
fully confident that even in death God will prevail and lift us up to
God's self.
This is not a passage for flimsy words about being happy and counting
your blessings. It is a word to people in the midst of death, that our
God is a mighty God.
I am thinking along the same line as Sharon in Bethlehem. My printed
topic is "Thanksgiving in the Future Tense." Many people think of
giving thanks only for what has happened in the past. For other people
the past has not been all that great. Some people think of
thanksgiving only in the present tense as they reflect on what they
like about the here and now. Unfortunately, the present is not that
great for some people either (e.g. the survivor of the World Trade
Center killed in the American Airline flight 587 Crash, Afgan
civilians, laid off factory workers, etc.). Yet regardless of how bad
the past or the present, Christians can look to the future with hope.
We have a godly vision that both saves us from despair and gives us
good reason to be thankful. -- Fred in NC
Dear Fred in NC:
Thank you for helping me find the link to Thanksgiving that works for
me. "Thanksgiving in the Future Tense." I've spent time working with
the various understandings of the end times that are found in this
text. I'm surprised that none of you have mentioned the news segment
earlier this week about Revelation and the possiblity (as they put it)
that "The Bible might be true!"
As usual, when we get to read about our future, I tend to deemphasize
reading the signs and worrying about that. I attempt to bring our
focus on living "in the meantime."
But it is the promise that God is in control of our future, no matter
how frightening the imagery might be, that provides our hope. And we
can surely give thanks for that.
Blessings
Pam in San Bernardino
Here's the phrase that caught me: "So make up your minds not to
prepare your defense in advance" ... thinking how much we want to be
prepared ... in control. Thinking of all the energy that went into
preparing the Y2K ... the disaster that never happened. Thinking of
what it is to live in the shadow of Sept 11th ... the disaster we
never could have imagined. Can we live in the tension of faith in the
one who calls us beyond the fear? That, I think, is the call of the
gospel in this text. Blessings, susan in sanpedro
I was out today spreading Winterizer weed-&-feed on my lawn (seems an
odd thing to be doing in mid-November but it is 70 deg!) and mulling
over this lesson when it hit me how odd this text is coming just
before Advent!
We are about to have prophets and Gospel texts tell us to prepare,
keep awake, be ready, and so forth ... and here is Jesus saying,
"Don't bother to prepare."
It seems to me that the contrast is between getting ready for eternity
vs. getting ready for things that happen in this world. Jesus seems to
be saying, "Don't sweat the small stuff."
Blessings, Eric in KS
Friend Susan,
It is the faith that brings us in contact with the fear. It is not
mere happenstance, as you know more than most. It is living from that
point of Christ into the world that brings and bears the conflict. And
it is only then, that the conflict begins. I really appreciate your
continued voice my sister.
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Erik in KS - This may be a little late, but I'm using Isaiah 12 also -
the wells of salvation tie in nicely with the baptism we will have
Sunday. Any ideas? kculp@awod.com
Oh, sorry, it should be Eric.
K.
pulpitt in ND-
I'm with you. As one of my parishioners asked (God bless her!),
"Should we now be wearing sackcloth and ashes?" "YES!"
I've written a piece about how we who WERE the victims and had the
sympathy and goodwill of our neighbors around the world have turned it
all around, blown our opportunity to develop respectful and colleagial,
cooperative and empathetic relationships and have become, as you put
it, "the terrorists."
So sad, so sad. And all about pride, and "hitting (back, but who?),"
which even my 6 year-old son realizes leads to a cycle of violence!
And now "defending our freedom" becomes a ludicrous proposition, as
our freedoms are being taken away!
I am sorry that it is painful, and probably has bad consequences, to
lift up the Truth in your congregation. I pray that God will give you
the courage to continue to do so, and the wisdom to see how to do
it... given your situation, with integrity.
Sackcloth and ashes... I think she had a point... God hold you in His
arms and give you Hope, in Him.
Deb in the 'burgh
Just a few thoughts to add to the melting pot
I am especially interested in the first few verses ... which speak
about the temporary nature of much that we hold dear . like the
memorials in church to long gone parishioners that someone else
referred to.
In the passage; what does the temple stand for and why will it be
destroyed ?
Jesus worked outside the temple system ... this was one of the major
reasons for his death. He criticised it ... for Jesus the temple stood
for rebellion against God’s rule. (Or at the very least, it showed
that Israel had failed to grasp what was essential in their
relationship with God).
The temple was centre of religious, moral and political life as such
it was a powerful symbol of security.
Not one stone will stand on another ... it brings to mind (as so much
does) Sept 11th.
Where is our security ? In the UK, in a fairly quiet market town, and
in spite of what has happened, I guess most people feel relatively
secure.
With regard to the destruction of the temple ... we are having to live
with the gradual 'destruction' of the established church in the UK.
(Or at least much of the traditions that go with it). I heard today
for the first time, the phrase 'liquid church' a church that can adapt
to its surroundings and not be stuck in a time warp. By contrast to
liquid church, we are often frozen church, in need of thawing out.
On the persecution alluded to by Jesus. I had an e-mail from a friend
in Pakistan after the killing of 16 Christians in a church. In fact,
the Christians who were killed were protestants meeting in a Catholic
Church. What a witness that is. At the funeral service it was said
'let us never forget that the central message of Christianity is
turning the other cheek' An example of God giving the right words at
the right time.
Rev EV in UK
Lest we forget: The Holecaust, the killing fields of Cambodia; and
other such evil acts... These to me are things that we as Christian's
let continue. I hate the violence but the violence done to the citzens
of that nation needs to be thought of too. What is a just war? When is
evil too evil? How many must suffer before they can to live untortured?
I don't know the answer, The Taliban releasing the hostages was a
surprise, but it had been what we were praying for. I hope we bert /wts
Lest we forget: The Holecaust, the killing fields of Cambodia; and
other such evil acts... These to me are things that we as Christian's
let continue. I hate the violence but the violence done to the citzens
of that nation needs to be thought of too. What is a just war? When is
evil too evil? How many must suffer before they can to live untortured?
I don't know the answer, The Taliban releasing the hostages was a
surprise, but it had been what we were praying for. I hope we are
really not fighting for revenge. I hope we are truely fighting so that
we embrace the diversity of the world so that evil is contained... In
my eyes it is not a religious war but a war against evil. We as
Christians see it through our faith. If the Taliban has not sheltered
the terrorists then the consquences would have been different. If the
Taliban surrendered then we would not be persusing. When I read this
over I am hesitant to post because I hate killing so much. Nancy-WI
Great Thanksgiving is a communion prayer at the foot of the Cross...a
Cross that leads to hope and resurrection even beyond and/or
transcending religion's limitations! From the perspective gained only
by hanging from the Cross what do you/I see? Through the eyes of Jesus
what do we see? What lies beyond religiousity's self-absorbed concern
for security? What lies beyond the temple's dryrot and disintergration?
Do we see the one digging the grave necessary for birth/resurrection?
Do the disciples in the "gathered" Church see the opportunity of
mission and for mission in the apostolic "scattering" to the ends of
the earth? Does the perception from the "Cross hanging" look beyond
the vision of God in the Temple's security of religiousity to the "God
Above God" who appears (makes advent) out of God's disapperance? What
does it mean to worship in a mode of Great Thanksgiving at the foot of
the Cross? I believe it means to look with the eyes of Jesus at the
world in all of its suffering for which he died! And to go and give to
that world out of Christ-ian love, taking the woundedness of that
world on one's self as if it were one's own, to go and meet Jesus
there where he still is at work as the Wounded Healer! This scripture
is like the word "crisis" because it involves both "danger" and
"opportunity/risk" (Chinese meaning of crisis). This scripture bridges
the crossover from beautiful sanctuaries centering on the Cross and
the actual work of Jesus now going on in a wounded, hurting,
world,...a world he sees from the Cross on which he hangs. The crisis
of woundedness breeds opportunity of ministry...filled with danger and
hope/risk/possibility. It would be a shame if we stayed in the
security of our Temple's santuary beneath a Cross lifting empty/hollow
prayers of Great Thanksgiving and do not see the Wounded working Jesus
in the midst of the crisis of a hurting, broken, bleeding world. This
world does not need Holy War. It needs Shalom and Holy Peace...even at
the costly price of disciples who still "gather" around a Cross so
that they may "scatter" to the ends of the earth because of the vision
of what they see through the eyes of Jesus hanging from the Cross.
PaideiaSCO in north ga mts.
There is an old comedy bit, which I think I first heard on the old
country comedy program, "Hee-Haw". I think Grandpa Jones was
surrounded by the cast telling a story and they were responding-
GP; Old Jed fell out of an airplane.
Crowd; That's bad!
GP; But he had a parachute.
C; That's good.
GP; But it didn't open.
C- That's bad!
GP- But he was falling toward a haystack.
C- That's good.
GP- But there was a pitchfork in the haystack.
C- Oh, that's bad!
GP- But he missed the pitchfork.
C- Well, that's good.
GP- But he missed the haystack too.
And it goes on something like that. I thought of that reading this
conversation between Jesus and the disciples- The temple is good! / It
will all fall down. / Oh, that's bad. When? We need to prepare. /
Don't worry, it's a long time off. / Oh, that's good. / Yeah, long
before that happens, you'll be arrested. / Oh, that's bad. / No,
that's good. You'll be able to speak the gospel to kings, governors. /
Oh, we better prepare. / No, the Holy Spirit will give you words. /
Oh, that's good!
I think I might use this as a sermon opener, to loosen up the folks
and point out that what we see as bad can sometimes bring forth good,
and what we put our trust in sometimes falls to pieces. tom in TN(USA)
I appreciate your posts Nailbender. As I think about the hard
contrasts between us (getting ready to feast at Thanksgiving) and the
victims of war, I think that even the terrible tragedy in D.C. and
N.Y. does not compare to the horror in Afghanastan. We still have the
luxury of "getting back to normal" while they.... What does the
"Peaceable Kingdom" mean to us and what could it mean to those who
have suffered for so long, suffered under the Talaban and then under
our bombs. To us, where does Christ point? and to them, what is the
message of hope? This will be a difficult sermon for tomorrow...for
those in our pews who seek reasurrance in a world of uncertainty. What
does this gospel lesson say to us in this place on earth? Peace and
Joy, Francis
Francis,
Thank you my friend. Over the last week I have felt an immense
sadness. I don’t know if it is those feelings elicited by this
scripture, if it is the fact that our embrace of violence once again
appears to have been victorious on the field of war and in the hearts
of our brothers and sisters, or if this scripture so utterly
demonstrates how far the “corporate we” are from the Kingdom. Over the
past several weeks, I have found almost a giddy delight in our
churches at each military strike and at each defeat of “the other.” I
say this with no naďve thoughts that “the other” might somehow be
redeemed by our kindness and gentleness. I say this with sadness
because it seems to me to be so contrary from the “Peaceable Kingdom”
which flows out of our living into the love of Christ which promises
that we might even love our enemy.
As you could see, I kept alluding to the fact that we American
Christians are not being brought before governors and kings, are not
being persecuted and hated. I am a good United Methodist, and we
certainly don’t want to be hated. We want to be loved and well
respected. I want to be loved and well respected. And yet, nation does
rise against nation, and earthquakes of injustice do roar across the
earth. Famines come and people die.
Those who struggle in the end, do not get drug before the powers
simply because they say the words, “I believe in Jesus.” They are drug
before the powers because they stand connected with the Christ of love
and the Christ of justice who says, “Love your enemy.” They are drug
before the powers because their very obedience and their very presence
shows the actions of the powers to be the antithesis of the will of
God. They are drug before the powers, they are hated by their family,
they are betrayed by their friends because they claim the Christ who
so disrupts the bias from the top that he his taken to a torture
device and executed. They are drug before the powers because they
refuse to hate, refuse to kill, refuse to be part of the nation
against nation.
And so I grieve. I grieve for my lack of courage. I grieve for our
voice that is not raised. I grieve because so many look at those
willing to raise their voice and call them “fools.”
In his suffering, Jesus redeems the world. May it be so for his
church.
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Thank you for the nice caring words "Deb in the 'burgh"
I remember the time I was at a workshop led by a pretty good friend...
we were talking about tolerance... living in a multicultural world...
all week we talked about discrimination... be it ... age, sex,
religion, nationality, ethnic heritage... etc. etc...
finally, on the last day... I got to thinking about those that have
asked me about our churches stance or my stance on "homosexuality" and
so I asked... "In my then 13 years of ministry... I've probably had a
handful of folks with enough courage to ask me what our stance is on
the topic of "homosexuality"... I've in turned asked them, "Do you
want MY stance, or the churches stance?" "Well... um, both?" I tell
them that homosexual persons, no less than heterosexual are persons of
sacred worth and should be treated with love and respect..." that's
basically my stance... I then say, "Our church Disicpline goes on to
say things that I don't think are helpful..."
"Now," (I continued) "I can ask that question here... no parishoners,
no one confronting me from my church, not even many from the state in
which I serve... but I doubt I'd be brave enough to say those things
from my pulpit!" To which my friend and the leader of the workshop
said...
"Rick, if you don't say something as a witness to Christ, Who will?"
Thanks again for the encouragement, Deb, blessings returned to you,
pulpitt in ND
