Scripture Text (NRSV)
Luke 14:1, 7-14
14:1 On one occasion when Jesus was going to the house of a leader
of the Pharisees to eat a meal on the sabbath, they were watching him
closely.
14:7 When he noticed how the guests chose the places of honor, he
told them a parable.
14:8 "When you are invited by someone to a wedding banquet, do not
sit down at the place of honor, in case someone more distinguished
than you has been invited by your host;
14:9 and the host who invited both of you may come and say to you,
'Give this person your place,' and then in disgrace you would start to
take the lowest place.
14:10 But when you are invited, go and sit down at the lowest
place, so that when your host comes, he may say to you, 'Friend, move
up higher'; then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at
the table with you.
14:11 For all who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who
humble themselves will be exalted."
14:12 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a
luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or
your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in
return, and you would be repaid.
14:13 But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled,
the lame, and the blind.
14:14 And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you,
for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Comments:
In Luke's gospel, Jesus often tells parables about meals in order to
illustrate God's unexpected grace and to lead people to a faithful
response. Here, we have two examples of these stories: one encourages
humility, and in the other Jesus invites his listeners to review their
guest list.
Manners at meals can be troublesome, especially if someone is
critically watching. Which fork to use, a stain that blooms where the
napkin is not--these are just a couple of potentially embarrassing
moments for the self-conscious diner. Where one sits and with whom can
also be matters of concern, as it was in today's meal story. The
matter of manners is sticky at this sabbath dinner party, for we learn
at the outset that Jesus was under scrutiny. Considering the kind of
unsettling behavior he had demonstrated on the other sabbath days,
that should not have been surprising.
When things begin to go wrong, one can try telling a story, hoping it
might take the edge off awkwardness. Jesus did that by telling a
parable about hospitality. People had been watching him critically
throughout the meal while hypocritically seeking pride of place for
themselves. Jesus acknowledged that move in his story; and he actually
turned the tables on his critics when his parable moved from
hospitality to humbleness. In the story Jesus skillfully illustrated
the danger inherent in self-advancement. Watch out how you position
yourself, he cautioned, for someone is always waiting and willing to
leap over or outflank you.
Perhaps it was during a later course that Jesus broadened his
observation about self-promotion and humbleness. Diners listened to
Jesus as he shifted focus from table place to guest list. The banquet
in the expanded story was no longer for cronies; it was for the
outsider and those who would normally not even have a place at the
table. The meal clearly point to something far different. The phrase
"resurrection of the righteous" rang a bell and moved the story to a
different plane. In the end Jesus was no longer talking about manners
and etiquette. He was giving his listeners much more, a glimpse of
something else, a foretaste of the feast to come. His story--like the
meal itself--is something to savor. Robert Brusic
Early thoughts:
In my book, the humility aspect of the first part of these verses is
pretty clear. It can be mined richly, but it's pretty straightforward.
But, woo hoo... let's have some fun with that second bit of advice
about who to invite!
I say, let's take it literally! Let's challenge our churches to plan a
banquet (and I don't mean a mediocre potluck or a half-hearted soup
kitchen) for the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind.
Forget all of that trying to get deep spiritual meaning out of the
text and applying it to our lives in some abstract manner. The meaning
is in actually doing what the text says! For one week, instead of
having our sermons being opportunities to show off our academic or
oratorial abilities, let's just grab a pad and paper and start
organizing the big meal.
Now, for some of you, finding all the down-and-outters might be a
challenge. Our church? We're blessed to have them sleeping on our
steps and walking the avenue late into the night. It's about time we
make more than a token effort to bring them in.
And you know what? I expect we'll find we get little immediate
repayment. (Jesus says so!) There is no promise of a great revival
breaking out, or the socials ills being solved, or of people's lives
turning around in the opposite direction.
I wonder if we'll be able to stand it. Whew... I gotta think on this
(and pray!!!!!!!!!!) a whole lot more.
-- Pastor Stinky
My Title for this sermon is:
"Lutherans picking their seat."
Pr.del in Ia
I dunno...
"picking your seat" sounds too much like "scratching your backside".
it's suppose to
it's a saying my father used to indicate doing something, but
accomplishing nothing...
Careful observations abound in this text. Those at a dinner gathering
in the home of a prominent Pharisee are "watching him [Jesus]
closely." But Jesus is also observing the behavior of the guests and
the host of the dinner gathering. His critical remarks may not be in
keeping with proper etiquette, but they do expose the truth about
worldly social-ladder climbing. The guests, the host, and ourselves
are constantly looking out for our own seats (maybe even covering
them), with rare thought to who gets stepped on in the process and the
inequalities we create. But people hurt one another through this
process. Differences concerning class status, gender, and race are all
around us as evidence of our choices for best places.
Thinly veiled is our value in status-seeking. Reciprocity is a game
that gets played to make ourselves look good. Even Jesus'
encouragement to choose lower seats can easily be misapplied by our
desire to make ourselves look good by acting humbly. In our attempts
to help ourselves first, we cannot help ourselves out of the dilemma
of obtaining status we do not have. If everything is earned (and that
certainly is the structural reality of reciprocity), then we are
caught in the heart-felt value of looking out for ourselves.
The critical nature of the reciprocity structure, also evidenced in
our daily dealings, is that we may get booted out of our place, and
forced to take a lower seat. The divine coercion, also at work in the
reciprocity structure, is even more severe in its final judgment.
Because of our disgraceful gains, we are finally lowered in our status
as human beings and face the magnitude of embarrassment in death.
The Master, Jesus, himself came to serve. He broke bread with those at
table with him. He did not value people on the basis of their prestige
or status, but recognized that all were low on the divine ladder.
Instead of giving us what we deserved, Jesus gives us honor through
his own assumption of our low status.
The lowest seat belongs to Jesus, and there is no going up to a higher
seat except by way of the cross. He who was crucified is now risen to
the right hand of God. But his crucifixion frees us to daily die to
our own attempts to push ourselves up the ladder, and to be raised in
the status of the righteousness which is Jesus' costly-but-free gift
for us.
Our sights are turned away from ourselves and toward others. There are
countless persons who are relegated to low seats in the reciprocal
structure in which we live. W.E.B. DuBois, a great African- American
writer, in 1902 (Souls of Black Folk), stated that the color problem
is the greatest problem facing America. Cornell West (Race Matters)
would agree. But racial inequalities, together with all other social
inequalities, are subsumed under the new way of honoring people in
Christ—daily dying to our sin, rising in the promise of Christ, and
looking out for all who are low in order that they may be raised up.
Al Jabs
What kind of a banquet that serves God do we serve in our churches. Do
we serve what we love best or what is best needed?
Our ham dinner nets a pretty penny but it does not serve the poor or
the hungry. I may ask that this year each person consider buying a
ticket for someone who can afford it. I know some of this exsists.
In all honesty we need the pennys too.
Maybe we can play around with the word "humble" a bit. The man praying
quietly at MacDonalds, the exuberant praise of God by our mental
challenged young man, the offering of a dance. Humble is a challenge
to define.
Rambling around, Nancy-Wi
During the planning of our wedding, I suggested that perhaps we could
use the time between picture-taking and banquet to go to a soup
kitchen and volunteer -- in our wedding finery. It would not have been
difficult - the banquet was in a hotel in an inner city neighbourhood,
steps from the nearest soup kitchen.
The entire wedding party looked at me as if I'd gone mad, and politely
refused.
So we had a lovely, selfish wedding banquet, with the poor safely kept
outside, except for one man who sneaked in and took a bottle of liquor
from the bar.
As you can tell, to this day I regret that our wedding banquet did not
live out the character of this reading. Perhaps it would have been
wildly unrealistic and naive, but it still seems wrong that we left
the poor out of our celebration.
LF
Pr.del in Ia
I like to have fun with sermon titles so my only comment to your early
choice of "Lutherans Picking Their Seat" is "PEW!"
OMG
i used to live in charleston, sc, and across the street from the
presbyterian church where i worked was a very old episcopal church.
being that it was a very historical church not much had changed in the
past hundred years or more and when you walked into the sanctuary,
your eyes were drawn to the pews (or atleast mine were).
each pew had a door on it with a small brass plaque that had a
families name engraved on it. these doors locked and early on in the
church only the family who "owned" the pew could open the door and sit
there on any given Sunday...
i believe the visitors and the folks who were unable to afford a pew
(as well as, in the very early days, slaves) where relegated to the
back of the church or up in the balcony where they were not seen nor
heard from...
the presbyterian church where i worked had the same pews very early
on, but when they reconfigured the sanctuary, they removed the doors
and allowed people to sit where ever they pleased, though it always
seemed like those families that had something to prove (or at least
something to show off) always found their way-- smiling that forced
grin that parents, children, and grandparents place on their face in
order to stave off questions about the harmony of their families-- up
to front in the center and in a place where they could be seen and
noticed by everyone around them...
niebuhrian in va
In today's USA Weekend insert in the Sunday paper, there was an
article about how a couples getting married can make a difference. One
couple as part of their wedding weekend had a blood marrow drive to
celebrate his nephew's successful tranplant. Another couple asked
guests to work at an organic farm that feeds low income families and a
third couple asked guests to support two of the couples favoite
charities. There is an I Do Foundation (idofoundation.org) launched in
2002 in Washington, D.C. providing couples with a variety of
charitable options. PH in OH
Pastor Stinky,
I wanna hear how this will turn out!
Susan in Wa.
While I love the idea of the sumptuous haute cuisine banquet for the
needy, my problem with it is this: if it is done only once, then it
would be turning people into an object lesson, pointing them out as
the people to be pitied. It could be a huge worry and embarrassing
moment for the guests (concerns about clothes, table manners, "what's
this stuff?") If it's only done once, then it is certainly a contrived
affair, basically set up for the purpose of the congregation to feel
some certain way.
I would prefer the needy be invited to MONTHLY pot-lucks, or whatever
the church normally does, in order to feel that they are not outsiders
suddenly being treated like visiting dignitaries, but welcome to come
and partake of our simple repasts as friends. (In an ideal world,
members could invite them to their homes, out to eat, keeping the
momentum going between church suppers.) I know that isn't the point of
Jesus' story, but this kind of "suddenly you're special, tomorrow not
so much" thinking serves no one in the long run. Jesus wants us to
invite them in over and over, treat them very, very well - no matter
how fancy or plain the table settings - and let them know they are
NEVER out of place in his Church.
Again, I realize one big blow-out banquet is what Jesus is talking
about, but I felt the need to chime in. One-shot attempts at outreach
bother me. It's relationship you're after, not razzle-dazzle. The
essence of hospitality is to offer comfortable surroundings -
comfortable for the guest.
OK. I'll go suck in some oxygen now.
KHC
While I love the idea of the sumptuous haute cuisine banquet for the
needy, my problem with it is this: if it is done only once, then it
would be turning people into an object lesson, pointing them out as
the people to be pitied. It could be a huge worry and embarrassing
moment for the guests (concerns about clothes, table manners, "what's
this stuff?") If it's only done once, then it is certainly a contrived
affair, basically set up for the purpose of the congregation to feel
some certain way.
I would prefer the needy be invited to MONTHLY pot-lucks, or whatever
the church normally does, in order to feel that they are not outsiders
suddenly being treated like visiting dignitaries, but welcome to come
and partake of our simple repasts as friends. (In an ideal world,
members could invite them to their homes, out to eat, keeping the
momentum going between church suppers.) I know that isn't the point of
Jesus' story, but this kind of "suddenly you're special, tomorrow not
so much" thinking serves no one in the long run. Jesus wants us to
invite them in over and over, treat them very, very well - no matter
how fancy or plain the table settings - and let them know they are
NEVER out of place in his Church.
Again, I realize one big blow-out banquet is what Jesus is talking
about, but I felt the need to chime in. One-shot attempts at outreach
bother me. It's relationship you're after, not razzle-dazzle. The
essence of hospitality is to offer comfortable surroundings -
comfortable for the guest.
OK. I'll go suck in some oxygen now.
KHC
Hello all you double posters. You know it does reveal a little
something of your personality. If you would just have a little
patience before clicking the submit button for a second time!! (worse
yet a third time!) Good grief, you all are AA personalities! I
explained this to Christine and explained how you can tell someone is
a AA type personality. Tell you what, if you need practice on your
patience go read some of vitriol on the discussions board. Like I said
before, bring back OIL, please! It has been so hot and heavy that it
is making it hard for me to post anything there or here with much
seriousness. I will try to recover. Thanks for all your posts, single,
double and so on.
OMG
A Double post also happens if you hit submit, and then hit refresh
without first clicking on the link that takes you back to the
discussion.
The server is also sometimes inconsistent, as I can sometimes see my
own post without refreshing, and sometimes not--don't know why.
Michelle
The first half of the pericope doesn't "zing" with me for my folks. It
sounds like another moral lesson about not being haughty or uppity or
presuming yourself to be the honored guest. I'd just be preaching
myself blue in the face because they'd listen and agree, but not see
how it applies to THEM.
The 2nd half really, really ZINGS with me for my congregation. When we
give a VBS, and, further, when we give a VBS and get no new visitors
from it, that hits close to home. Declining churches need bodies and
money. There's always an agenda to outreach that reaches beyond
bringing Christ to the neighborhood. All we can do is keep praying
against it, I fear.
Initial ramblings from ...
Sally in GA
The title, "Lutherans Picking Their Seat" ... well, it's a better
title than "Lutherans Picking Their Nose!"
don't want to be too heavy!!!
Sally
Hmmm ... anthropology experts ... what about the manners of the host?
In USA in 2004, I wouldn't dream of making someone take a different
seat in my house if they'd sat down in the wrong one. Heck, I've never
even made a seating chart (even my wedding reception was just that - a
reception).
The only time I tell people where to sit is to tell our members to sit
with new folks worshiping with us. Oh, and then there was the first
official day of the church merger when I gave the instructions before
the passing of the peace, that no 2 members of the same church should
be sitting together when they sat back down. Those are the only times.
Here I go with bit-by-bit posts again ... thanks for indulging me.
Sally in GA
Oh... I'm full of spit and vinegar this morning ...
I've been responding to posts one at a time as I read them, and I
guess I just feel conversational.
KHC - good point. My husband worked at a homeless shelter and soup
kitchen for his supervised ministry settings. Area restaurants give
leftovers to the soup kitchens. Well, there was one man who had a lot
of fun with vichissois (I think that's how it's spelled). To quote my
husband quoting him:
"Vee-shee-swah. I'm eating vee-shee-swah. Don't rich folks know any
better than to eat cold soup?"
Sally in GA
Dear friends,
What a delightful conversation this morning! Humor and radicalness are
working well this morning!
My question to Jesus at this point is, "Why can't you just go to a
dinner party and have fun? Why do you insist on causing problems
everywhere you go!?"
Grace and peace, Mike in Sunshine
Yeah, Sally, we bring up the Pew Seat Mix-Up every once in awhile to
try to get people to sit in a new spot, get a different perspective on
the worship service. (Amazing how you pay more attention if you're not
in your own spot.) Nobody will do it for real. Apparently their
individual tushes only fit in one particular depression on the pew
cushions. But we do have one woman who is wonderful about sitting with
guests and talking to them with a truly hospitable welcome. Our guests
never sit alone or get worried about the proper place to sit with her
there.
True story I've shared before. In a church near here, they started
getting tons of visitors every week when the new pastor arrived. One
family of visitors sat down in a pew near the center. A few minutes
later a couple walked in, saw this, and marched right up to the
visitors and announced "You are in our seats. You will have to move!"
These visitors later asked me if this was "common" in churches. I had
to say "I hope not, but it may be" because it just may be. I'm not
sure the visitors ever returned, and I'm not sure the "accusers" ever
really realized there was something wrong with their attitude.
KHC
John Dominic Crossan provides some good insights on this passage in
"Jesus, A Revolutionary Biography" -- Chapter 3, "Open Commensality"
and "Radical Egalitarianism."
My husband works for a banking organization. They never allow thier
board members or thier staff to sit in the same seat for consecutives
meeting. They say it has been proven this practice keeps perspectives
fresh and allows information to flow easier when workers have to look
at each other to remember who is speaking. Kathleen near Canada
To KHC --
Please be mindful of how very cold that water is that you just dumped
all over Pastor Stinky's idea.
I agree that inviting one and all to a free, monthly meal of simple
fare, sitting next to our church folks, would be the absolute ideal
for any congregation. Mine is nowhere near ready for such a thing. If
yours is, I am humbly astonished and would like to hear how you (and
they) got there.
I can imagine that the sumptuous banquet idea from Pastor Stinky might
generate enough enthusiasm and excitement from her folks that they
might go right ahead and do it. And once having done it, they will
likely be a bit less intimidated to do the next thing in contact with
Those People. And then maybe a bit less after that next thing ...
Seems like Jesus was talking about big feasts because he was talking
to people for whom big feasts were a big deal. That's true of my
folks, too.
Peace, Kristen
Hey Folks,
Thought I'd throw this in for us. Dr. Alan Culpper in the New
Interpreter's says " The greatest crisis the early church faced,
moreover, was not the delay of the parousia but the burning issue of
whom one ate with (Acts 10:9-16,28:15:19-20;Gal. 2;11-14. Perhaps it
is time we learned new table manners." I can only add AMEN Padresac
DPSers
I'm wondering what it would be like if the man Jesus had shown up at
some our clergy meetings? What would he say to our negotiatings as
clergy? Trying to get the best church? Trying to get the best
leadership position in our denominations is more of an issue with us.
I think we need to understand this before we can understand why some
parishioners sit where they do. After all we often have the best seats
in the sanctuary, and feel we can't give them up for a visitor.
I see this is another pericope that is only in the Lukan account. My
pastor (me being a retired pastor and a part of the worshipping body
is quite enlightening) spoke of luke's emphasis on the poor and
outcast in his gospel. I think there is a deeper meaning to Jesus'
statement about the who to invite to dinner.
shalom bammamma
People's commenting on who will/will not change seats in a worship
service made me think of many groups seesions I have been at.
If you really want to confuse people in a circle, sit in a different
chair when returning from a coffee break or meal break or at the
beginning of the second day. Uusually these have been church
gatherings and I have never heard someone say "That's my seat" but the
looks on peoples faces is quite telling.
Gord in ON
It's my day off, but I guess only in theory ... I got a call this
morning for a business proposition. I met with 2 women about it and
this week's pericope was playing in stereo in my head.
One of the reasons I was placed here (or so I was told) was that I'm
good at community involvement. I've discovered, having been here 3
years, that there's a reason this church isn't involved in the
community: quite simply, they don't want to be. Any idea I've had has
met with VERY nervous resistance (on the good side) and downright
hostility (on the bad side). It's been quite a struggle.
The business proposition is that some acquaintances I have in the
neighborhood, whom I've worked with in other capacities, came to me to
check about a place to hold an after-school program. They'd pay rent,
and this could be a really good thing.
The catch: I've addressed this before, and so has my predecessor, and
... well ... I don't want to broadcast what they said. My favorite
excuse (which I've said here before) was that "We don't have the right
kind of septic tank." In that same conversation, Mr. Negativity moans,
"Why won't the conference help us little churches out??" Here was
someone wanting to PAY US to use our facility and they refuse ... but
bitch and moan about how no one will help them out.
Anyways, now I'm faced with figuring out how to approach this one. Not
EVERYBODY in the church wants to keep people out; many would embrace
this idea. But, oh, don't we want to be repaid?
I have to confess that in the back of my mind was, "this is good for
outreach - doing what we're put here to do" (the good part) and also
thinking "maybe our church can grow finally and I won't have to be so
embarrassed at its stagnation." (the bad part)
.......................
Next thing that occurred to me, speaking of embarrassment. Have you
ever been embarrassed for someone who's oblivious to what they're
doing that ought to be causing embarrassment? Such it is with folks
who are oblivious to their "placement" in life. Those who think of
their "honor-placement" really maybe OUGHT to be embarrassed before
the ultimate host, Jesus.
ok, I'm playing with words, and dashing off some thoughts, but think
about the play on words. Jesus is the host of our worship, with all
its sacramental implications. Do we think we "deserve" our place at
the table? If we do, it indicates our "un-deservingness" paradoxically
by Jesus allowing us at his table at all.
I'm working on a title of "Rank and File" How's it sound?
Sally in GA
Pastor Stinky et al:
My first thought was, "what a great idea." I also remember that some
people did just that in a church I once went to in a large city...on
Christmas they came to church, made a big Turkey dinner, and anybody
who showed up was welcome.
In my current context of a small town of 500 where everyone knows
everybody else and everyone in the next two towns over, I wondered how
we'd go about inviting the "poor" people? It might not only surprise
some people that they had been invited, but they might find it a bit
insulting. It might also add to the perception in town that our church
supposedly thinks they're better than everyone else, and you have to
be rich to go to this church.
So, the challenge is, how do I represent the root issue here? How do I
help the congregation see that we aren't currently open to all comers
(as much as we'd like to think we are)? Instead of literally holding a
banquet for the whole town, what can we do today that will make it
absolutely clear that the kingdom/family of God is open to everyone?
Any ideas?
CMW in Illinois
Sally in GA
I think your detractor needs to hear about "picking his seat"
A book i read recently (I think the title was "Reclaiming the "L"
word) reminds us that the church is the only organization that exist
for the sake of those outside it.
Pr.del in Ia
This text was so tame compared to the previous few weeks. Not much was
provocative here. It's all seems like common sense, could be even
listed as common ettiquettes.
Apparently there was no assigned seatings at the wedding banquet, and
many would choose the places of honor. It might be a stretch here, but
aren't we also being invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb?
Apparently there are also many guests with spiritual ambitions, who
wanted to arrive close to the place of honor. In church history, some
even seek martydom for they believed that would get them in the inner
circle in heaven.
In the ministerial circle today, perhaps we also subscribe to the
similar idea without even knowing it. Isn't it true that we often seek
to be closer to VIPs in our denominations, especially in national
public conferences? Sadly, since Jesus Himself only hosts His banquet,
and not the conferences, many have succeeded in obtaining place of
honors by just choosing their own seats (I am getting cynical, I know,
so let me get off the soap box before we all getting intoxicated).
The principle of "For all who exalt themselves will be humbled, and
those who humble themselves will be exalted" requires the interference
of God. The one who truly humble would wait for God to justified them.
(And sometimes God won't even get to them in this life time...)
Then on the second section about throwing a party, Jesus wanted us to
do something opposite with what we often do too: to step out our
normal social routine and take care of the under-privillidges. (We
won't have a good time, because we may not know any of them, but they
certainly would, since they are among themselves, enjoying something
they don't normally would). Extravagance. Some times it is OK, to
treat the poor to extravagance (instead of cost-conciously wanting to
make sure that we can provide just the essentials to as many as we
can).
Well, just a couple of disjointed thoughts.
To-ashame-to-sign
Mike in Sunshine,
You asked, "Why can't you just go to a dinner party and have fun? Why
do you insist on causing problems everywhere you go!?"
Causing problems are part of the fun!
JC
Kristen and Pastor Stinky, no cold water baths were intended. Have
your banquet. I hope it will ENcourage more outreach; I certainly do
not hope to DIScourage it. I was speaking from the perspective of this
cash-poor pastor who has been the "victim" of being invited on a
wonderful trip that made my head spin, only to be ignored when we got
back home, all attempts at spending time together rebuffed. Then a
year later, these same people invited me on another to-die-for
vacation! I'd rather stay home and eat beans with people who know I'm
alive on Monday than to eat filet mignon and caviar on top of an Alp
or in Majorca with people who forget my name once we've pulled in the
driveway. I'm certain I'm in the majority on this, and I'm also
certain it is the feeling held by rich and poor, noble and humble
alike.
Again I aplogize for offending either or both of you. I guess I'm
still carrying some baggage over these "friends" and it is getting
carried over into this text about inviting unlikely people to your
extravagant ventures.
I'm finished with this particular topic, so you can all relax now.
KHC
Another possible title -- "Social Graces"?
BC
Following one of the above posts, I offer these true stories from
previous places of service.
In a very small, southeastern NC church, the congregants tended to sit
in the same pews they had always sat in. The church could hold maybe
100 people, if none of us breathed too deeply. There were about 8 pews
per side of the church with only 1 center aisle. The pews were pressed
to the outside walls.
Years before I served that chruch, there were 4 sisters who each laid
claim to a particular pew. Each sister would move to her pew and slide
to the outside wall to sit. NO ONE dared sit on their pews. Picture 4
older sistes sitting one behind the other on one side of the
congregation. As the sisters died, the pews were left vacant. When I
arrived, only 2 sisters remained. They continued to sit in "their"
pews. The advantage in that church is that one could always tell who
was and was not in church on any given Sunday.
In northeastern NC I served a church that decided to replace all the
carpet in the sanctuary. To do so, we havd to remove all the pews.
Great care was taken in numbering the pews and relocating them in
their proper order. The pews all had "memorial" plagues. Some folks
joked that if we re-arranged the pews, the ghosts of those
memorialized would come out to haunt us. So, we were sure to relocate
the pews, properly. "In the Baptist church, you surely can't have the
back row moved forward!" (I say with my tongue planted firmly in my
cheek.)
I don't know if these are of any value, but have fun with them in you
so desire.
Steve in NC
I am in an inner city parish. This gospel is challenging to any
community that is set in the midst of poverty. Are the poor, the
disenfranchized, the marginalized, the economically disadvantaged in
our midst in a significant way? Do we invite and welcome them to our
banquet table? Is the neighborhood and its challenges part of our
worship services? Are they part of the decision making processes in
our church communities? If they are truly a part of our worshipping
community, then why would they not be represented around the tables
that make the decisions for ministry and administration in our
communities? Sometimes, I think we have come a long way and at other
times I can see how far we've yet to go to fully live the gospel
message CJ in MI
Date: 8/23/2004
Time: 3:17:05 PM
Comments
Steve in NC--I know it was a typo but I like the idea of "memorial
plagues" rather than "plaques." Sometimes they might feel that way!
To all, I notice there's a nice intersection between the Luke and
Hebrews passages. Hebrews brings up the "entertaining angels" unawares
while Jesus is all about how to entertain this week. Could be that
some of those "lessers" that are invited in are indeed heavenly beings
that we don't even recognize. Just some early thoughts.
Gerry in San Francisco
"The pews all had memorial plagues"
I know that's just a simple typo, but it gave me a big smile. Plagues
upon those who refuse to give up their seats to visitors or anyone
else. I love the image of the 4 sisters riding the 4 pews in tandem,
too. Thanks.
KHC
I wonder what would happen if we posted signs on the pews before folks
came to Church on Sunday. The back rows would be labeled $100 seats.
Middle rows would be $50 seats. All the way up front would be $1
seats.
Do you think folks would change the place they sit?
Of course, where they sit is not always a status issue. Often they sit
in the back so they can get to the restaurants first. They sit up
front so they can hear.
We used to have folks blocking the entrance while they fellowshipped.
You had to about fight your way into the church. We created a "Hugging
Zone," and then removed the back two rows of pews in order to allow
more room. We even created a position as "senior hugger." But I
digress.
I think the social humility issue is secondary to the concept that
chosen people (who thought they were saved) felt superior to those who
were marginalized. Jesus' ministry to the latter oveturned their
notion of what status each group would occupy in the Coming Kingdom.
The application to my church is that folks have become so comfortable
with their own salvation that they fail to have any concern for
helping others gain that same comfort. We have indeed become "keepers
of the aquarium" instead of fishers of men.
Thanks for the forum.
Dave in Arkansas
Dave in Arkansas - now THAT'S an idea that'll work!!! I just may do
something like that for fun. I've got a stable enough relationship
that if I did it with a twinkle in my eye, we'd all laugh together.
The pew-sitters' phenomenon... not to mention the plague of plaques.
In this church EVERYthing has a plaque from the pulpit to the
baptismal font, to each individual kneeling rail ... the lectern, and
I do believe even the Lord's table. The breezeway, the door, and I've
never checked it but it wouldn't surprise me if the large altar cross
had one, too. Oh - and our kitchen says "Nancy's Kitchen." Of course,
every pew has one, too. Though they're placed discreetly, I couldn't
help but be put off by those plaques when I first arrived ... and now,
having to work on opening our hearts, minds and DOORS to the entire
community, the plague of plaques seems to UN-invite newbies. I've
never seen so many brass plaques in my life! I can't preach without
noticing that the pulpit was built by NH.
Now, to remove some of them would be to hurt some of their survivors'
feelings. Nancy was beloved and the plaque that says "Nancy's Kitchen"
reminds them of her. To remove "NH" from that is to imply erasing his
memory. It's quite a dilemma.
KHC - You gave me a great illustration, if I can use it. Some of our
folks have gone on certain kinds of tours and probably know what
you're talking about.
What's so hard to realize is that we do the exact same thing to
others!!!
The church is the only institution that exists specifically for
others. You're so right, Preacher del. It makes me think this is
pericope isn't as disjointed from the previous weeks, after all.
When last week's woman was healed, the entire assembly stood
straighter. When one bent-over person (like the poor in our society)
is delivered, we all stand straighter ... YET we cannot delude
ourselves into thinking that serving them a dinner is their
deliverance. We cannot think we're doing somethign "good" for the
"less fortunate" because THEN we're putting ourselves in the place of
honor. It's a delicate, fragile line.
Last - another illustration (like last week, I think we'll have no
lack of them)... Some children in my previous church came to church
with sandals and sundresses on in winter - with no coats. With the
best of intentions, the women of the church decided to give them a
Christmas gift - and would give them coats and socks or whatever. I
told them "No, we're not going to single out anyone." So, we worked it
that all the church kids would get gifts, but that they'd subtly give
the "needy' kids the coats and socks (and there were other things,
too).
Well, one of the girls traded - with my own daughter - her coat for
some little cheap pocketbook my daughter got.
Though I was vindicated, I was embarrassed at my daughter (though how
could she have known), and I felt bad for the well-intentioned
compassionate church ladies. God bless 'em. I think real life drove
the lesson home better than any preaching on my part - but it's
awfully presumptuous to define who's needy and who's not. It's awfully
presumptuous to take the initiative to help someone else.
Sally in GA
Mike in Sunshine wrote: My question to Jesus at this point is, "Why
can't you just go to a dinner party and have fun? Why do you insist on
causing problems everywhere you go!?" Mike, if Jesus answers you on
this one, will you please forward it to the rest of us? This is the
same question my congregation asks me and I'd love to quote the Master
in response! KC
Throughout our lives we sit on different chairs ..there are good
chairs and bad chairs theres the glider on your porch talking with
your grandparent or your sweetheart or a chair with your dad at a
ballpark and there are bad chairs like the principals office or the
dentist chair chairs also tell us where we find ourselves in life
theres the "executive" chair or the worker "bench" we need to ask
ourselves where we are "sitting" in our relationsip to our Savior
John Rodriguez (second posting)
Is there an element of what service is in this passage. Being in
service to each other. Treating each as if they are equal,not needed.
If you invite the least and give them the place most thought by all as
those with the most, does it move all to the same plain. Not sure,
Nancy
A funny story regarding someone sitting in someone else's spot. One
Sunday in a church I previously served, a woman came in with her
friend that she always sat with, in the same pew. They also had a
granddaughter with them. The granddaughter ran up and sat in the seat
where her grandma's friend always sat. The lady was very distraught by
it, and so she asked the little girl if She would like to move over?
As only a child can do, she said, "NO!" Then, the woman was stuck and
knew it. I stood in the narthex watching this whole situation unfold
with great fascination! The woman proceeded to walk around to the
other end of the pew, and sit down as close as she could get to her
regular spot. She was almost sitting on the little girl's lap! We are
creatures of habit, are we not?
Susan in Wa.
Leadership magazine has some of the best comics around. One was of a
sanctuary with all the pews removed except for the back pew. As the
people came into the sanctuary and sat in the back pew, the ushers
would push a button that pushed the pews on runners up to the front of
the sanctuary!" Now wouldn't that be a hoot! Just to see their faces!!
I have to share this funny story. This Sunday while I was preaching,
Wyatt a 3-4 year old that is percocious. First, he came up for chapel
talk. Mary, can I go up here(pointing to pulpit) Sure, I said, just
walk around and come back for the story.
Then, we did a blessing on the school Kids, and I told the younger
ones to come to for blessing...He came as we were reading the litany
blessing..."Mary, he said I don't go to school." Then he climbed up
between the two boy teens and I annointed his forehead and gave him a
blessing...
Well, he went back and forth Children's church and sanctuary. Just as
I was finishing the sermon, only had a little to go. He walked up to
Pulpit, i waved to acknowledge him...I was in the middle of a serious
point. Then he said " Mary, Why are you up their talking?" O.K. What's
the answer...I bent down to whisper to him, because I'm the preacher.
Hmmm, Well, what else could I say? I am the preacher, right...
I thought afterward, lesson for me... WHY AM I UP THERE TALKING? TO
make disciples for Jesus Christ. Now a 3-4 year wouldnt understand
that, over his head...I am the preacher satisfied his curiousity...Simple
answer...
Are we as preachers, even though we go on to classes and
training...maybe making it harder...Keep it simple...Answer the
questions... Jesus keeps it simple and only tells us what we ask at
that moment...gives us what we can handle...at that time...
I just wanted to share that, use as you see fit, if you need a story.
Clerically Blonde in West Ohio Conf.
Nancy
I think service is done for others, for my own well being. That is how
God connects me together and gets "God" work done. When I invite
others to share in my gifts, talents, (say sharing in a meal I
prepare) then I need to realize that I am benefitting. When I don't,
then I tend to blame the invited guest for my disappointments.
Yesterday my granddaughters came to visit me. I have a favorite ice
cream that I was anxious to share. I had two favorites, chocolate and
vanilla. I fixed two bowls with matching spoons and paper towels as
place mats (you can see I was proud of how I had prepared the treat.
My grand daughters politely looked at the ice cream, but said gently
they prefered vanilla. So I changed it and made two more bowls, spoons
and paper towel place mats. They looked at the New York Vanilla (which
I love) and said this wasn't the kind of vanilla they liked. They
politely ate as much as they could, and left most of the ice cream in
the bowls.
In seving my granddaughters, I had served myself. They found ways to
enjoy being with their grandmother, and still be themselves. They
served me. To me, both grandmother and granddaughtes were served, and
cared for, even with our differences. I thank God for the experiences.
It has become very important to me in my faith journey, to practice
respect for everyone, to become more and more aware of my own
prejudices. When I am being hypercritical of others, I'm practicing
looking at what has triggered that reaction in me. I admit it is hard
work, and somewhat painful, but I sincerely think my Savior Jesus has
called me to do so. Boy am I surprised to see what I've discovered
about myself.
I shared a service with persons on an Altzeimer unit yesterday. In the
message part, I reflected on the joy Jesus seemed to get from healing
other. I then thanked them all for their presence there, and service
they gave those of us who came to lead the service with liturgy and
music.
When I think of humility, I think it will mean different things
according to where persons start. In some aspects, I need to humble
myself to not be too humble.
Wow, this reflection on Nancy's comment, (and John Rodriquez's right
before that) and my on thoughts about Luke's 13th and 14th chapter has
turned into quite a bit of rambling.
Shalom bammamma
Susan in WA: Indeed we are creatures of habit. This past Sunday I was
speaking about moving outside of our comfort zones. As I had been
threatening to do (jokingly) for over a year, I had everyone stand up
and ordered them to move at least 5 pews away from where they were
sitting. You've never seen 180 more uncomfortable people in your life!
They sat in the unfamiliar places and we processed what the sanctuary
looked like, how it felt etc. and I even left the chancel and finished
the sermon from the center aisle. At the end of the service I
challenged them to sit in a different place every week. We're facing
some major changes in the near future, and I hope to prepare them.
Pastor Rick in FL
Freudian slips are more powerful than I thought. But, I never knew one
could do such with while typing! When I saw the mistake, I laughed
too.
Have fun! I know I did!
Steve in NC
when it came time to pick a catering hall for our wedding reception we
looked at 2 places. the first was a fire hall that did a good business
having wedding receptions. when we went to look at the hall one of my
first questions was: can the head table be broken down so that we
could sit with our guests?
the man who showed us the hall was almost appalled at the thought. why
would the bride want to do a thing like that? she was supposed to take
center stage!
the tables were indeed moveable, but we wound up going with the second
place even though their head table was un-movable because it was clear
that they were in the business to be hospitable towards the couple,
rather than telling us what we wanted for our day.
i think i was in my seat for the toasts. i saw my new husband's and my
roles as the hosts, not as the guests of honor, as the first man had
thought.
as a side note. when it came time to do our vows at the ceremony, we
exchanged places with the presiding minister because my dad (the
presider) believes that at that point the couple presides at the
service.
i also made the decision that i would be the one in charge of the
seating arrangement. it was only when i was done with the rough draft
that i let others look at it, to make certain i hadn't put people
together that didn't get along. and our head table included some of
the wedding party and some of our family, rather than just the wedding
party.
while this is a sabbath dinner, it reminds me of that day and how
"successful" my planning had been because hubby and i played the
hosts, not the guests of honor.
jesus was not the "host" at this dinner, the leader of the pharisees
was. but jesus becomes the host when he tells his parable. ultimately
God plans the seating arrangements at the great feast and this parable
gives us a view of what it might look like.
btw~ i love the picking your seat definition.
God's peace, christine at the shore
i wanted to share what i did last sunday (even though we are on to
different things.)
to whoever submitted that blanket ritual; i kept coming back to that
idea and really wanted to use it, but wasn't sure how then late sat
night i made up a list of about 30 different things that burden us and
weigh us down: financial worries, stress, guilt, car trouble,
jealously, etc. i printed each thing on a piece of 8 1/2 x 11 paper in
large font. i had a woman from the congregation stand next to me when
i began my sermon and as i read off the list i taped each paper to her
until she was completely covered. i talked about the woman's physical
burden and then removed (peeled away) each paper reading it again.
i had given a blank slip of paper to each person in the congregation
in their bulletin and had them take it out and write down something
that they would like to be peeled away, a burden the would like to
have lifted. when they were done i collected them in a basket and
placed the basket on the altar as part of our offerings for the day,
saying that this table was the place to put these things.
people really identified with this. i've kept all the slips wondering
how i might use them again later. don't know if i will.
in any case, wanted to thank you all for last week, especially the
blanket ritual, and offer this to the group for your files.
God's peace, christine at the shore
John Rodriguez encourages us to consider where we're sitting in
relationship to our Savior.
... of course, the ideal is to sit at his feet. But are we really
sitting in a chair across from him and debating him?
Sally in GA
why does this text ring so true with us, when so many folk, choose not
the seats up in front of the church, but the back pews?
why do people choose the back pews in churches, but want the best
seats everywhere else?
God's peace, christine at the shore
henri nouwen tells a great story in (i think, someone correct me if
you know) "can you drink this cup?" about his friend adam(again i
think it was adam, but correct me if i'm wrong again, the book is at
work and i'm at home). adam was taken to a different care facility
from the one nouwen worked at because of some special needs. so nouwen
went to visit him.
when he arrived he was met by the director of the facitlity, who had
known about his visit and wanted him to have lunch with "some" people.
nouwen insisted that he was just there to visit his friend, but got
roped into going to this lunch so he asked if adam could join them.
apparently, no patient had ever dined in that hall and it made some
waves, but nouwen insisted that he wouldn't go if adam couldn't come
too.
he was taken to a place of honor at the head table, discovering in the
process that this had been a planned meal and all sorts of "important"
people had been invited to attend.
he soon found himself in a conversation with the person seated on one
side of him when ada stood up suddenly, raised his glass and
announced: "a toast!"
all the eyes were on him, people waited to see what this mentally
retarded man would do to embarrass himself, when he started singing:
"if you're happy and you know it..."
nouwen talks about the change that came over the people. they raised
their glasses and began to sing along. this man they didn't want there
had brought a new joy to the gathering.
God's peace, christine at the shore
omg~
i'm very sorry about the craziness at the discussion board. i guess i
should have known better. thank you for joining the "fight" over
there. i appreciate you.
God's peace, christine at the shore
I think that speaks volumes that we sit in the back at church, and yet
look for the front seats, the best seats at the concerts or the
sporting events. What message is this sending to our children, that
church is not a place to be...
Yet the back seat in church, is that the place of honor? Is it true
that we are all in one of the four catagories for those to be invited
to the banquet? Is it true that the Greek word used here as invite,
could be seen as being called? Is it true that in Jesus time the elite
invited members of status to their dinners because of the honor it
gave to those invited? Not only for the return favor of being invited
to a dinner party by them, but alos because it honored the invitie,
and made them a part of the family. Is Jesus showing s that he indeed
took the lowest seat for us, and through this we are invited to the
table, with everyone else to be a part of the family of God?
asacredrebel
bamamamma, first of all, you have never "rambled", in my opinion. Your
posts are straightfoward and appreciated.
Secondly, you said: "When I am being hypercritical of others, I'm
practicing looking at what has triggered that reaction in me." How on
the money you are! Psychologists have been saying that for a long
time. People get angry or critical when they see some deficiency in
themselves manifested in another person. Recognizing that deficiency
in self is an AH HA moment, allowing us to adjust our thinking, either
accepting two flawed people as they are, or changing self to something
better.
The anger and criticism toward Jesus by the Pharisees and synagogue
leaders strikes me that way.
This text brings me to the thought that Jesus was telling the big-wig
leadership that they need not consider themselves the head table
guests of God, the chosen elite, but should realize that unlikely folk
may get the prized invitations. Jesus said in many different ways that
adherence to the Law was not all there was to be approved by God. The
head honchos may have become angry with Jesus' attitude about that,
BECAUSE they truly, in their deepest hearts, knew he was right - they
WERE deficient, but darned if they'd admit it! So, they blamed HIM for
being deficient. It's a deflection technique quite common in human
relationships. (what I call the "Well, what about HIM!??!" syndrome)
Does this sound like the current political campaign? Oh my!
So, now I'm the one who's rambling. But I hope this makes some sense.
KHC
I'd like to consider something a little different. I could be way off
the base here, but I'm wondering if Jesus didn't have a little
different message here. I'm wondering if the message might have to do
with who we are? It seem that maybe Jesus is telling us that we are
not the societal people we experience in our culture, but we are
called to be servants. That calls for humility and that calls for
putting our "places" aside and reaching to those in need. Notice, this
lesson of Luke doesn't talk about the needy. Rather, Jesus says to
invite the crippled, the lame, and the blind. If we want to learn
about life, then learning to live those who have learned to live will
take away our own lameness and blindness and allow us to know life in
a way that is grace centered and others oriented. It's kind of the
life of the Christ and I believe it's the call of the Christian
(little christs). Lynn in Blair
An excerpt from Luke 13: Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few be
saved?" He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for
many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able…” “…Indeed,
some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last."
This was the Gospel for last Sunday in the Episcopal Church. I must
say, it was disturbing to many, many of our gentle people to reflect
that some [others] might not go to heaven. The prevailing concept is
that we all have a right to be at peace with God and with ourselves,
and not to worry. This theory was reinforced on a prior Sunday, when
we had “Fear not, little flock; it is the Father’s good will to give
you the kingdom…”
Dealing with contradictory ideas is a frequent exercise during this
season of judgment/end-time gospels. We struggle with Love and Mercy
vs. Judgment, which of course, means we are confronted by the Cross.
The humility of those who cross the line of social position – is this
such a narrow door that we question its rightness?
GEC in Mich
This week our lectionary leaves out verses 2-6. It was pointed out to
me in text study today that in verse 4 we read: "So Jesus took him and
healed him, and sent him away." So Jesus sends someone away from the
banquet. What's up with that? CJ
KHC
thanks fro pushinh deeper into the way we can spmetimes do the one
off's and miss the life time applications, taht only come not from teh
rational head, but from the heart that just finally get's it.
Downunder-rev
Christine at the Shore, & OMG,
I applaud you both for your attempts on the Discussion Board but I
think we are dealing with a personality disorder. I do not like to
make hasty judgements but I think we have a Narcissistic PD, over
there. You can never "win" a discussion with that type of person. So
it is best just to let them rant and ignore them totally.
It is amazing but even in this situation I think God is working in a
mysterious way - we have a prime example of someone who wishes to have
the seat of "honor" (even though it is to an extreme). Perhaps what
Jesus is trying to tell us is that we can never bring this type of
person into the great banquet. We should concentrate on those who are
willing and able to accept the Good News of the Kingdom. Just thinking
out loud....
Thanks to all of you for the great posts.
Grace & Peace, TBOD ;?)
Here is the thrust of my sermon --
We always have a family Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner together at
my grandparents house. There was an adult table and a kid table. My
cousins and I always wanted to move up to the adult table...but we
still have not made it! In God's Kingdom there are no adult tables and
kid tables. We have one table where we all eat the same bread and
drink the same cup regardless of our social standing.
What do you think?
BC
BC;
In our Father's house we are all children!
Also, here is a story that one the members of the AA group that meets
at our church told me. In the beginnings of alcoholics anonymous, a
Presbyterian minister was very helpful and invited the people from AA
to attend services at his church- but the people in the church had a
hard time with all those drunks being in their church- so the AA folks
were asked to leave. Some of them went to the Episcopal church across
the street, where they were made to feel welcome. Guess which church
they ended up attending?
On a similar note, I tried putting the AA group's meeting time in our
church newsletter and on the church calendar- I was told very quickly
not to do that. At the last Session meeting, I brought a request from
the AA group to have ceiling fans installed over where they meet (our
air conditioning units are very noisy). The Session had no problem
approving that, but they wanted to make sure that the words
"Alcoholics Anonymous" or the initials "AA" did not appear anyhwere in
the minutes. I may get real brave and ask them why they don't want to
admit that an AA group (which is the only place in this church where I
hear people talk about spirituality and being of service to others)
meets here
grace and peace;
revgilmer in texarkana
