Scripture Text (NRSV)
John 21:1-19
21:1 After these things Jesus showed himself again to the disciples
by the Sea of Tiberias; and he showed himself in this way.
21:2 Gathered there together were Simon Peter, Thomas called the
Twin, Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two
others of his disciples.
21:3 Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to
him, "We will go with you." They went out and got into the boat, but
that night they caught nothing.
21:4 Just after daybreak, Jesus stood on the beach; but the
disciples did not know that it was Jesus.
21:5 Jesus said to them, "Children, you have no fish, have you?"
They answered him, "No."
21:6 He said to them, "Cast the net to the right side of the boat,
and you will find some." So they cast it, and now they were not able
to haul it in because there were so many fish.
21:7 That disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the
Lord!" When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on some
clothes, for he was naked, and jumped into the sea.
21:8 But the other disciples came in the boat, dragging the net
full of fish, for they were not far from the land, only about a
hundred yards off.
21:9 When they had gone ashore, they saw a charcoal fire there,
with fish on it, and bread.
21:10 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish that you have
just caught."
21:11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of
large fish, a hundred fifty-three of them; and though there were so
many, the net was not torn.
21:12 Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." Now none of
the disciples dared to ask him, "Who are you?" because they knew it
was the Lord.
21:13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and did
the same with the fish.
21:14 This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the
disciples after he was raised from the dead.
21:15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter,
"Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him,
"Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my
lambs."
21:16 A second time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love
me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." Jesus said
to him, "Tend my sheep."
21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon son of John, do you
love me?" Peter felt hurt because he said to him the third time, "Do
you love me?" And he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know
that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.
21:18 Very truly, I tell you, when you were younger, you used to
fasten your own belt and to go wherever you wished. But when you grow
old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will fasten a
belt around you and take you where you do not wish to go."
21:19 (He said this to indicate the kind of death by which he would
glorify God.) After this he said to him, "Follow me."
Comments:
In the text last week on John 20, I was feeling frustrated with CEOs.
I claimed that Jesus didn't ask "where were Thomas?" and ended with
the question: "Was it the responsibility of the pastor to visit
everyone who miss church, or is that the responsibility of every
single believer?"
I think God is pointing me to the answer in this week reading. The
presupposition needed here is that Peter representing the leaders of
God's community. And as leaders, I am charged with 3 things: 1) Feed
His lambs, 2) Tend His sheep, and 3) Feed His sheep.
At first glance, it looks like the same command was repeated three
times. But there are a few observations I can pick out from it.
First and foremost, all three charges were stated as responses to our
love (in both form phileo and agapeo) to Jesus. Ministry are done out
of my love to God, and not even out of my love to people. Loving
people is hard, for Jesus want us to love even the unloveable. So, if
only when I can love Jesus enough to see Him in the people I am
ministered too, I then will be able to love people adequately.
Secondly, I think there is a prioritized order for ministry. It's not
a coincident that "Feed my lambs" come first. Lambs are new-born
weaklings who could not even help themselves even with their own
survivals instinct yet. My number focus therefore must be on the new
converts, to help them established in the faith. Now, it is obvious
that sometimes we may not be able to discern correctly who is the "new
converts", for the mere outward acts and rituals of professing the
faith may not be adequately reflect the inward belief. But that should
not be an excuse for not keep this task in top focus.
The second priority is to "Tend my sheep" (literally "Shepherd my
sheep"). Here one can take the "shepherd" thread and run a trace of
what the word meant according to John, but I am going for a simplistic
explaination of shepherding meant managing and leading the flock (even
though Jesus didn't say "shepherd my flock", but the "flock" was a
root in the Gk. word for "shepherd"). So, shepherding the flock for me
meant more of a corporate concern than for the individuals, (eventhough
we will care for the individuals, but it should be done out of the
concern for the larger group).
Finally, there is the priority of "Feeding my sheep", which Peter and
friends later translated it as "It would not be right for us to
neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables...
[we] will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word."
(Acts 6)
With this priorized order in mind, I wondered what Jesus had in mind
for Peter when He concluded, "Very truly, I tell you, when you were
younger, you used to fasten your own belt and to go wherever you
wished. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and
someone else will fasten a belt around you and take you where you do
not wish to go... Follow me." The text indicated that it meant what
kind of death Peter would endure, but I wondered if it also meant that
as we grow more matured in leadership, we will also grow in obedience
to Christ in serving, keep our focus on following Christ, and not so
much on "where I do not wish to go" or not...
Once again, this is kind of a digression on the text which may have
little significant to the congregation. But if God were to feed the
sheep in the congregation, he would have to deal with me as the
shepherd first.
To the general congregation, perhaps the following settings should be
taken into consideration: First, even after the historical
resurrection, many of us still have no clue what to do with it. "I am
going fishing" were the responses from Jesus's core team, after the
most fantastic demonstration of His power. Jesus left them, and the
void of directional purpose can be felt here. "That night they caught
nothing" were the results they are left with (possible tie in with
Luke 5 passage a couple of months ago, but that is out of John's
context).
There is a gap between knowing the historical resurrection and
experiencing that same power of the resurrection in our lives.
According to the text here, to experience the resurrection one
(especially the shepherd) must "follow Jesus" by "lay down their
lives". Because if we don't, how could we "take it up again" (Jn.10)?
O the Chief Shepherd, teach me to love you as a shepherd apprentice.
Help me to schedule my priorities according to your guideline of
nuture the lambs, tending the flock and feed the sheep.
Coho, Midway City.
CEO"s make lots of money! Can't be us! :-> Nancy-Wi
I'll just be coming back from a trip this week, and so I've booked a
Gideon speaker. It's my little "thing" that the Gideon speech does not
take the place of the sermon, but here's what I'm thinking about a
tie-in.
Loving Jesus, tending and feeding his sheep" - with the word of God.
OK, not too profound, but it would make a good entrypoint for a
reflection on the importance of our own study of God's word. *** And
the sharing of it *** which is where many of us fall short. In my
humble assessment, and from my judgmental side, I find the
barely-interested participation in Bible studies to be directly
related to churches in decline. Like, for example, the one I'm serving
now.
Sally in GA
The risen Christ blesses his followers, especially Peter, and welcomes
them to a meal of fellowship and forgiveness.
This story of overfull nets, the last miracle story in the gospel of
John, echoes with the story of overflowing jars of wine, the first
miracle story in this gospel (the wedding at Cana, 2.1-11). The fourth
evangelist brackets the story of Jesus with these two miracle stories.
Both stories reveal the true identity of Jesus to his followers and
both stories proclaim the abundance of God's grace. These are the same
themes of the story of the feeding of the five thousand (John 6),
which is also echoed in Jesus' feeding the disciples breakfast on the
beach.
The mention of a charcoal fire for cooking the breakfast meal is an
interesting detail. The last time such a fire is mentioned in John's
gospel, Peter is warming his hands over one as he denies knowing Jesus
(John 18.18, 25). In John 13.36-38, Jesus had foretold that Peter
would make those denials. How the grace must wash over Peter when
Jesus gives him three opportunities to "undo" those denials by
declaring his love.
Jesus tells Peter what it will mean to live out that love: to feed or
tend Jesus' sheep. How has Jesus fed the disciples? By drawing them
near to the realm of God through revealing the abundance of God's
grace and mercy to them. Peter and the other disciples are to draw
other near to the realm of God just as they drew in the big lot of
fish. As one of the founders of the early church, Peter will share in
Christ's work even to the point of his death by martyrdom, which is
described at the end of this reading as something that Jesus also
predicts (vv. 18-19).
Jesus' call to Peter at the end of this story, "Follow me" (v. 19b),
is a call to all of us as well. If we allow ourselves to be directed
by Jesus, putting our nets on the right side of the boat, we will be
fed by encounters with God's abundance. We will be empowered to live
out our love for Christ through love for others.
Spiritual gifts assessments can be useful tools for helping Christians
to discern vocation, their call in the church. Yet, these calculated
and quantifiable means of assessing spiritual suitability, for all of
their usefulness, may fly in the face of this day's calling of both
Simon Peter and Saul.
"You've got the job!" says God to each.
"He's totally unqualified!" assess the onlookers.
"Noted," says God. "Oh, and by the way ... this will not be easy."
Who is called? Today's texts make it clear that God's criteria in
assessing spiritual gifts challenge our own.
Position: Model Missionary to the Gentiles. Appointee: Saul. Previous
work history: Hunter, of Christians. Personal attributes: Tenacious.
Well-connected.
Position: Shepherd of Jesus' Sheep. Appointee: Simon Peter. Previous
work history: Fisherman, none too successful. Personal attributes:
Cowardice. Modesty.
The bad news in today's texts is that our reliable tools for measuring
spiritual suitability, as well as our own preconceptions, are called
into question. The good news is that we clearly see, in light of God's
seemingly illogical assessment standards, that we too have a place in
God's work force. It is not our worthiness that readies us for the
call; it is God's pronouncement.
Yet, if we are called to that for which we are unqualified, what are
we to be doing? Perhaps the task performed is secondary to the message
conveyed with our lives. What shall this message be?
"See!" our lives announce, "In our very unworthiness, you are seeing
in your midst the saving and redeeming grace of God. To the one seated
on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and
might forever and ever!"
This is off subject but the virus spreaders have a new trick.. I
recieved an email that the first attachment was clean but the second
was not. Just a heads up. Nancy-Wi
putting clothes on to jump into the sea!!!!?? Is it me or does that
sound odd? storyteller
There are two different words for Love being used here. Agape and
philios. Jesus asks Peter do you agape me, and Peter replies that he
philios Jesus. This is repeated. The third time Jesus asks if Peter
philios him, and Peter replies that he philios Jesus. Fellowshipping
love and brotherly love.
Storyteller... not odd at all (to put on his clothes). Galillean
fishermen often worked in the nude (or in only a breechcloth). It
would have been rude to appear before anyone, especially the Risen
Lord, in such a state of undress. The boat was probably in
wading-depth water, so putting on a tunic to wade to the shore and
meet Jesus was simply good manners.
Blessings, Eric in OH
Somehow I think of some Dali paintings as I read the 21st chapter of
John. (As far as I know, he never painted the scene described.) THe
images are rushed, run together, confusing, and yet blend to leave an
image of transcendence. I think that the thing that makes me think of
Dali is the use of "light" in the passage. They see Jesus first, but
he is next to a fire. Normally, the fire would shine through the night
and catch their eyes. But here, the fire is secondary.
And they did not recognize Jesus. The disciple who Jesus loved says
"It is the Lord." THe other disciples seem to want to ask "who are
you" but they don't because they "know." (It's interesting in the list
of disciples, the sons of Zebedee are mentioned but not by name. THe
disciple who Jesus loved was present. This puts him in this group of
seven, and we know it's not Peter.)
Jesus took THE bread. Normally we would think of "Jesus took bread".
THE bread makes this sound sacramental.
The interplay between agape and philos seems to me to have Jesus ask
for something Peter will not or cannot give. Finally, Jesus asks for
that which Peter says he can give. Some commentators downplay the
difference between the two, however to me, agape is the goal and
philos is best that most of us can do on our own.
I find it interesting that physical therapists use belts to "handle"
patients. THe first time that I saw it in the hospital, I immediately
thought of John 21. I know it's not what the author was saying, but it
would do well for all of us to remember that even if we are not going
to be crucified, there is coming a time when we cannot care for
ourselves, no matter how self-sufficient we feel right now. I've had
two parishioners so far this year suffer stokes-- one 51 year old and
one 64 year old. One was a charge nurse for a major hospital. THe
other is a gentleman farmer who most would think of as a self made
man. The image of having a belt placed around them and being led where
they do not want to go is going to be a very difficult one for the
congregation not to see.
Anyway, a lot of images that all run together. Should be an
interesting week.
West Texas Presbyterian
G.R. Beasley-Murray says that entirely too much has been made here of
the two words for love, phileoand agapao, since the two terms seem to
be interchangeable in this Gospel. For example: John 3.16 (agapao) and
16.27 (phileo) of God's love for humankind; 3.35 (agapao) and 5.20 (phileo)
of God's love for the Son; 11.3 (phileo) and 11.5 (agapao) of Jesus'
love for persons; 13.34 (agapao) and 15.19 (phileo) of love between
human beings; and 8.42 (agapao) and 16.27 (phileo) of the love of
people for Jesus. The distinction here, then, in all likelihood is
purely a matter of stylistic variation.
I'm in the process of developing something called a Hospitality
Ministry Team (our congregation no longer has committees, we have
ministry teams) and I'm thinking about using this pericope to advocate
such a ministry. It seems to fit well with the theme.
Feeding, tending and nurturing God's sheep is a call to all who follow
Jesus. And along those lines, we welcome strangers. Our hospitality
team will be trained to look for visitors, introduce themselves, sit
with the newcomer, help them through our (liturgical) worship service
(including juggling hymnals, bulletins and inserts), introduce the to
others (including me, the pastor), help them find things like the
guestbook and restrooms, and invite them to return. It is hoped that
this will begin to create relationships and will give visitors a
"friend" within the congregation and encourage visitors to return.
It seems to me that, if we truly love Jesus, we are willing to welcome
others into his house! And in welcoming them, we feed and nurture
them.
Pastor in PA
The use of both agapao and phileo may be only a stylistic variation,
but it speaks to me anyway. As West Texas Presbyterian points out,
Jesus asks for something from Peter. Do you belong to my fellowship,
will you commune with me? Peter answers that he loves Jesus like a
brother. He will stick by Jesus through thick and thin (heard that
before?) and that's what he has to offer. Jesus tries again. Will you
and I be in a relationship that goes beyond any you've ever known
before? Peter replies he will keep Jesus as a brother.
Brotherly love is a great thing. We need more of it. But in the
Christian community we need to have brotherly/sisterly love for ALL
people, and a special Christ-centered fellowship with other
Christians. As open as we are to the rest of the world, we still have
that bond, the Sacraments of Baptism and Communion (your water and
bread images here in this story, perhaps??) that are stronger even
than brotherly/sisterly love. Jesus said that he would split families
over the issue of who Jesus is; but the Christian community is made
closer because of who Jesus is.
Peter either doesn't have the concept of agape in his head yet (and
that is no slam of Peter - probably nobody did yet) or he is saying
that he simply does not have what Jesus is asking for. Right now, the
best Peter will promise Jesus (for fear of going back on his word yet
again??) is that he will love Jesus in a close, fraternal bond. And
Jesus, ever willing to meet us where we are in our faith walk, decides
this is enough for now. Later, after Pentecost, Peter may be able to
make a different commitment. But for now, Jesus asks him to love the
people and thereby love Jesus.
Our relationships with Jesus may need deepening, but Jesus will not
reject whatever we offer in love.
Early week musings that may or may not make their way into my final
thoughts. And yes, I know the words for love go beyond the limited use
I have put them to here!
Thank you WTx Presbyterian for this direction.
KHC
I think what Beasley-Murray is saying is don't stretch for something
that's not there. Agapao and phileo are used interchangably throughout
John so to suddenly place some deep meaning on the use of two
different words that the author never intended might be reading
something into the text that's not really there. Other commentators
agree that placing some profound meaning on the use of two different
words isn't necessarily warranted.
Shalom
I would respectfully disagree with Beasley-Murray's opinion. While it
is true that Agapao and Phileo may be used interchangeable through out
John, I don't think it would be the case this time. Within such a
small pericope, and variations should be deemed intentional and not
interchangeable. Otherwise, we might as well combine other stylistic
variations such as lamb/sheep, feeding/tending as well.
(But ofcourse, I should be argued against such opinion, for I picked
those up in my textual analysis any way)
[Big Grin]
Coho, Midway City.
Henri Nouwen uses the "being led by the belt" text in his reflection
on the change in his ministry. He was living a fine life as a
university lecturer, surrounded by the best and brightest; then God
called him to be the pastor of severely handicapped people at L'Arche.
He certainly felt he was being led where he did not want to go! and
yet that move led to a more profound spirituality, greater love and
deeper service. How many of us have been led where we would not
otherwise have chosen to go? (and here I'm thinking especially of you,
Sally, with your struggling congregation...)
LF
KHC,
I appreciate your comments on this.(As well as W.Texas Presbyterian
too.) It does make a huge difference to know what Jesus is asking of
Peter, and to know that Peter is answering with what is in his heart.
It goes along with my thinking about where my own congregation is, and
where I often am too, in needing to love Jesus more than I do. All the
spiritual gift inventories or whatever ministry tricks we may have
won't amount to anything if our love of Jesus isn't first and foremost
in our lives. I think verse 18 has to be one of the most powerful
passages in scripture, that there will come a time in our lives when
someone else will come a put a belt around us and take us where we
don't wish to go. That passage followed by "Follow me. in my way of
thinking is the whole gist of this passage. How much do we love Jesus?
Enough to follow him to the cross?
Susan in Wa.
I wish all of this chapter were included in this week's lectionary
reading. I'm thinking along the lines of "After The Parade" -- after
all the planning and preparation for the wedding and the big day has
arrived, then there is a blues time of adjusting to living with
someone who squeezes the toothpaste tube differently. After all the
anticipation of 9 months of waiting and the baby has finally arrived,
then there is a post-partum blues time. After all the planning for the
4th of July parade and fireworks, who's going to clean up all that
mess from the graffitti and horses. After all the excitement of HE IS
ALIVE!!!, now what. After all the fanfare and festivity of Sunrise
Service and Easter morning, what do we do now? Back to fishing just
like usual, just like we did before? No, Jesus comes again and points
us in the direction of service, not looking to the right or the left
at the "others" who are doing it differently, but following Jesus'
commands to feed His sheep. ps in or
One of my scripture professors counted all the good things Jesus did
for others in the gospels and he came up with 153 of them. I've never
had the time or whatever to count myself. Have you? If this is true,
what a wonderful way to reveal the number of Christian acts Jesus
accomplished in his public ministry as he bows out to let the early
Church take over for him. Any other take on the number 153 fish? Why
would the number matter? Pax, old priest in Iowa
Question: Does anyone know the number of nations or countries that
were in existance at the time of Christ? I thought I was once told
that it was 153, the same number as fish which were in the net. If so,
this miricle is one that demonstrates the universal (note not
universalism) themes of God's love and purpose for the world. Grace
and Peace, Badlands Paul
I'm with Coho in Midway City. John didn't use any word without a
reason. It's the best thought out book in the Bible. There is
something to be found in his use of two different Greek words.
How about this thought...The Williams Translation notes that the
pronoun in the phrase "do you love me more than THESE" in Greek always
referred to things. I think the question to Peter is "Hey, fisherman,
will you give yourself to my call the way you gave yourself to
fishing?" Fishermen may find that a challenge. DaRevUMCinSCIA
Maybe the author uses agape and phileo because they are both
essential, not simply to have a different way of saying love.
Max in NC
I don't post often. I usually just read and learn from all of you. I
truly do appreciate each entry. You folks are often inspirational. But
this time I think that John says that there are 153 fish because there
are 153 fish. No secret code. No mysterious message. Why make more of
something than is there? jm in NC
I see a theme in all of this weeks Scriptures: Overcoming and
Reconciliation. Peter reconciled at breakfast on the beach and Paul on
the Damascus Road. Finally, the Slain Lamb who overcame the sin of the
world and is glorified in heaven. Ps 30 - Verse 1: "I will extol you,
O LORD, for you have drawn me up..." Verse 5: "....Weeping may linger
for the night, but joy comes with the morning."
BF - S. FLA
Much has been made of Jesus coming to the disciples just as their
lives were returning to "normal." It seems to me that one of the
things Jesus does here is redefine what is normal. Instead of normal
being what I want, when I want it....normal becomes loving and
nurturing others in both body and spirit.
Nan in Pa.
Jesus keeps showing himself. Has Jesus shown himself to us lately?
Jesus keeps showing himself. To weeping Mary Magdalene, he showed
himself by calling her name For some of us, the faith thang has to be
personal It is only the personal that can stop the tears of grief,
disappointment, …
Jesus keeps showing himself. To the fearful disciples who had locked
and dead bolted themselves in a house Jesus greets them with words of
Peace and breathes on them Breathing on them bringing to remembrance
that first breathing upon in Genesis Jesus recreates a new bold and
fearless people For some of us, the faith thang has to recreate us
Taking away locking up fear. Giving us peace.
Jesus keeps showing himself. To Thomas who wanted some serious i.d
Jesus shows him his hands and his side and invites him to touch Faces
lie: poker faces and cosmetic slapped faces. Been there. Seen that.
Words lie: Sweet words that disguise the poison. Been there. Heard
that. But hands don’t lie. Hands can’t lie. You want to know the
story, check out the hands. And the hands, the story, leads Thomas to
say those prized words “My Lord and my God” For some of us, the faith
thang comes by seeing how it pans out in reality Want to id the body
of Christ? Show me your congregation’s hands.
Jesus keeps showing himself. To seven of his own fish fishing He
participates in their daily living, instructing them but leaving it up
to them to trust him and obey …
Still working Story teller
Ps I want to end up where Jesus asks Peter three times whether he
loves him Jesus reclaims Peter three times from his three time denial
shame on Maundy Thursday .... hmmmmmm an over reach?
Storyteller,
No, I don't believe it is an over-reach. It is a good tie-in to bring
love in to overcome the shame.
Michelle
thanks Michelle. ...
...love overcoming shame. hmm. yeah. Could connect with what KHC had
talked earlier about with the agapao and phileo conversation. Jesus
asks for one thing, but with Peter's Maundy thursday shame still in
the back of his throat, Peter offers Jesus what he's got. He knows
himself too well at this point to make any grand promises.
Michelle and Storyteller,
Thank you so much for your thoughts. I like the love overcoming shame
theme! Three times denied, three times given the chance to right
himself....
There is no better way to demonstrate the depth of forgivness than to
give the person who failed you some important job to do. Lost
confidence, lost self-acceptance, lost sense of purpose can best be
restored by somebody you respect/love saying "I need you to do
something for me that is very, very important. I'm counting on you".
So, can we assume that the best way for us, today, to properly accept
the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ is to go and work in his name? I
think it is. In fact, it's one of my major ministry themes. We're not
saved from our sins so we can get to heaven. We're saved from our sins
so we can live and serve in Jesus' name, taking up our crosses and
following him into some (sometimes) scary and deep waters, redeemed
from our newest failings so we are empowered to go and serve some
more.
So many angles for approaching this text! Thanks for all the
viewpoints shared here.
KHC
There is much in this text this week to contemplate. The discussion
thus far has certainly shown how complex it is to understand this text
and yet, how rich the meaning of the text. The one thing that really
strikes me is the tension of the text from fishing to shepherding. I'm
wondering if the call of Peter and his company to become "fishers of
men (people)" has now become a call to become Shepherds of the flock.
The difference is the call is from hauling people in like the net with
the abundance of fish to now learning to become shepherds tending
flocks. Jesus nevr refers to himself as being a fisherman. Yet, he
continues to call himself a shepherd. Is Jesus asking Peter and the
disciples to now become his ministry in the world, that of a shepherd?
Feed, tend, feed indicates care and love. The agape/philos discuss
warrants noting. Yes, Peter is still smarting from his promise and
denial at the Passion events. But, more importantly, Peter is
emphasizing a caution. He is hurt because he feels Jesus doesn't hear
him. Finally, Jesus responds so that Peter realizes, yes, Jesus does
hear him. A last thought, my guess is there will be a tremdous variety
of sermons written and preached this week. The message will vary with
each sermon preached. I hope those who hear us will realize that we
too have heard the call of Jesus "Feed, tend, feed my sheep." Lynn in
Blair
If you REALLY want to focus on the number 153 see below for what has
been said before... (not by me!)
The numbering of the fish proves that John was an eyewitness There
were 153 species of fish in the sea (since shown to be wrong) One
refers to Shem's race, three refers to Ham's race, and five refers to
Japheth's race (Noah's sons) 153 is the number of people Jesus
ministers to in the Gospel of John Jesus lived for 12,240 days which
equals 80 x 153; and Jesus ministered for 918 days which equals 6 x
153.
Jim Dennis Bamberg
DaRevUMCinSCIA,
You suggested that "do you love me more than THESE" could be "Hey,
fisherman, will you give yourself to my call the way you gave yourself
to fishing?" It could also be Jesus was pointing THESE to the 153
flopping fishes on the shore as well.
As for the number 153, one of the early Greek church father thought
that it was a total of 153 types of fishes in the sea, and thus making
a connection with universal evangelism. "[This specific number], has
given rise to all kinds of allegorical and symbolic interpretations.
But probably John mentioned the number as a matter of historical
detail. With a group of men fishing, the common procedure would be for
them to count the fish they caught and then divide them equally among
the fishermen." [The Bible Knowledge Commentary]
Coho, Midway City.
Help! I'm presiding over a baptism (infant) for the very first time
this Sunday. I know it may be a little late in the week for advise,
but any thoughts on how this particular text might tie into
Baptism...Presbyterian style? I could use the wisdom of so many more
experienced DSPers. Shalom, BB in IL
BB, Lots of ties to baptismal themes. It takes place at the sea and
Peter comes through the water to get to Jesus.
THere is the issue of who comes to who. God/Jesus intitiates the
process by appearing. Only then, can Peter and the other disciples
respond.
The disciples trust and obey and respond to the call of the Lord (cast
your net on the right side of the boat) before there is clear
recognition of who it is. Even after Peter says, "It is the Lord and
responds, it still looks like the rest of the disciples want to ask,
"Who are you?" but they knew, kind of. It is not unlike infant
baptism. We trust, obey, and respond to God's actions in an audatious
manner. We baptize infants in the name of Father, Son, and Holy
Spirit. THis child who is being baptized-- a real baptism-- the one
baptism-- the only baptism this child will every know-- doesn't have
any idea what is happening right now. We baptize not because this
child is good, or will be good, or even because the child is innocent.
We baptize because God has come to us before we even knew who God was.
We baptize because God came to people who have no hope of reconciling
their lives to either God or others-- apart from grace, forgiveness,
and love. Jesus comes to disciples who have appear to want to return
to their old lives. Even after hearing of/experiencing the
resurrection, they return to their old lives-- to fishing. The child
baptized may walk a twisted road on his/her way to affirming the
promises made this day. However, such a road is not less twisted than
Peter's, and the story affirms that God in Christ will not be stayed
from coming again and again to those who have been called.
Just the thoughts off the top of my head. West Texas Presbyterian
It is hard to say whether 153 is to be seen as a symbolic number or
simply a piece of historical reminiscence, or both. If it is symbolic,
it could symbolize the numerous different kinds and certainly also the
large number of people that could come into the community of Jesus
through evangelism. There is some evidence to suggest that some
ancient zoologists thought there were about 153 kinds of fish in the
world (Though Jerome cites Oppian as listing 153 kinds of fish,
actually Oppian's list seems to have included 157 species). If this is
alluded to, then it suggests that there would be converts from all
different kinds of people. Missions would be a large success among the
various peoples of the world.
Shalom
Lots of good stuff this week. I am seeing a pattern in this Gospel in
how Jesus relates to his disciples and how that transfers to us.
1)Jesus comes to them. As the disciples are finishing up a night of
fishing, “Just after daybreak, Jesus stood on the beach” Jesus is the
one who seeks them out, Jesus is the one who draws near to them.
2)Jesus inquires about them. I like the simple way the Living Bible
puts it, “Any fish boys?” Jesus is interested in what they are doing,
in the chores, work or job that they are doing. 3)Jesus helps them. He
tells the disciples to, “Cast the net to the right side of the
boat...” and then Jesus provides them with a catch. 4)Jesus welcomes
them. He welcomes them around a fire, welcomes them with bread and
fish. Then 5)Jesus calls them. This is a different type of call than
his earlier call. The first call to follow (Chapter 1) is to believe,
this second call to follow (Chapter 21) is to serve.
In the same way Jesus comes to us - baptism, Inquires about us -
prayer, Helps us - gives us His Spirit, Welcomes us - Holy Communion
and Calls us - to love one another.
What I like about this is God is active and we are acted upon so that
we can serve in action. I think this is also a good model for
evangelism or being a welcoming congregation.
Grace and Peace, Badlands Paul
Dear West Texas Presbyterian, Thank you so very much. I've been
reading, brushing up on baptism, was thinking of changing from the
lectionary to Gal. 3:27,28, but instead will stick to this passage as
you have so wisely shown the connections, passing through the waters
even not knowing...that God comes to us before we know who God is, and
that it is grace, not how good we are or who we will become that seals
our belonging to God and to God's community of faith. God in Christ
who calls us to break down the barriers that we have built up, the
wall in Israel, the walls of oppression, war, race, sexism, ageism and
terrorism. It is the hope we have for this one little child, that he
begins to know, by example of his parents, his community of faith,
that to be part of the body of Christ means to be a Prince for Peace.
Thanks again, BB in IL
I am really focusing on the connection between the seaside breakfast
provided by Jesus to the frustrated fisherman and the mandate to Peter
to "feed my lambs". I notice that Jesus inquired if they had any fish
almost as though he wanted to purchase the catch and then from some
unknown source fish was already to be served. I am thinking more and
more that ministry is about cooking the meal for the hungry and
discovering that with the invitation to eat comes the recognition of
the risen Christ. Revatconcord
To impute the "number of nations",or the "number of good things Jesus
did for others..." to the 153 fish would imply that John knew such
statistics as he wrote his gospel. Doesn't sound likely. But it does
sound likely that he intended the church to follow Christ's commands
in order to be successful in its assigned fishing! In the same manner,
last week, the church was closed in and full of fear, until Jesus came
in and began giving them the assurance of his presence, and empowering
the church to forgive sins.
Somebody mentioned something about Jesus showing himself to us. What
about Jesus' statement, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet
believe?" On the other hand, Jesus is showing himself all the time for
those who see with eyes of faith. PH in OH
Thanks to all who posted this week. I had a parish Bible study last
night on all 3 texts for this Sunday and many questions came up which
have been addressed here. Special inerest about the number 153, and
about the agape, philios varitaion. I plan to share some of what I
learned from you all.
One connection that came out of our study last evening was that the
first thing both Peter and Paul do in these texts when they see and
recognize Jesus is to dive in - Paul to the waters of baptism, Peter
to the waters of the lake.
Useful? Who knows.
Blessings, Martha in Germany
there are times when a cigar is just a cigar. and there are times when
a fish is just a fish. 153 fish to a fisherman planning to sell at ten
denarii a fish is $1530 denarii and not a 153 nations.
Sorry. For some reason the codebreaking is driving me nuts! Stuck in
winter during spring in the north? Perhaps!
Storyteller
there are times when a cigar is just a cigar. and there are times when
a fish is just a fish. 153 fish to a fisherman planning to sell at ten
denarii a fish is $1530 denarii and not a 153 nations.
Sorry. For some reason the codebreaking is driving me nuts! Stuck in
winter during spring in the north? Perhaps!
Storyteller
Hi, Here's a sermon title I'm working on, The Apprentice" Got it from
an earlier post about working for Jesus. Desperate preachers, watch
the emphasis on numbers if you live in a state or near a state where
the lottery is played. Gen
Friends,
The hospitality theme that Pastor in PA introduced is what I am going
with: "Breakfast on the Beach" is my title.
Jesus may be modeling himself what it means to feed sheep by providing
true hospitality: cooking fish and bread for hungry disciples where
they are and at the time of their need.
What a welcome sight that charcoal fire (and the smell of breakfast
cooking) must have been. Jesus took the trouble to find where his
disloyal friends were, and he chose a particularly vulnerable time
--having worked hard all night and with nothing to show for it;
attempting to return to normal but never really being able to leave
the ghosts of Good Friday behind. --to give them the warmest
hospitality they could ever imagine.
I can think of no better good news than what greeted these tired men
that morning. It was forgiveness served up hot and tasty. When muscles
are sore from work not performed in a while, and the the stomach
growls with discomfort, Jesus is there with just what is needed. The
sheep are being fed, and now Jesus asks one of them to pass on the
favor. Gladness is felt all around: the feeder and the fed.
Breakfast on the Beach shows: Feeding of sheep isn't something that is
to be designed around Peter's schedule, but rather it is to be fitted
to the sheep's needs. Only then is it good news.
It is good news for the undeserving. This is what forgiveness means.
Peter was making no move toward God, rather he was moving away like
Johah who headed out to sea. For forginess to happen, the greived
party, Jesus, needed to track down the guilty and provide hospitality,
a sure sign of forgiveness. Not only did Jesus cook for Peter and the
rest, I believe that he also ate with them, just like he did at the
last supper.
Jesus stood with them in the locked room, walked with them (two,
anyway) on the road, and ate with them on the beach.
There is a huge difference between cooking for the homeless and
sitting down with them to eat the same food. Also, there is a
difference between telling someone you forgive them and serving them
at the table.
We need to get it right about Jesus. Benevolence without hospitality
is meaningless. Forgiveness without coming face to face with your
enemy on their own turf is empty talk. There must be a mutual
relationship built. The church cannot sit back and wait for the sheep
to come to it --when it is cleaned up, well fed and have it's
righteousness showing.
OK. I'm on the soap box.
Steve in KS
I'm with Storyteller ... 153 fish is 153 fish. The whole idea that the
number has some hidden esoteric meaning borders on the gnostic heresy.
Finding codes in the Bible is just an exercise in silliness, in my
humble opinion. There are all sorts of (conflicting) theories about
the number 153 -- but, as Storyteller said, sometimes a cigar is just
a cigar, and sometimes a number is just that, a number!
Blessings, Eric in OH
Shalom, BB in IL We have a baptism this week too. I am tying in the
feed the lamb, calling the baby the newest lamb to feed, I use the
child's name in the service. I may do as I did with the last one
actually go and get the child and hold him up again. That depends on
the child's disposition that day! I am also going to stress the
abundance of grace in the first part, as a way of reaching out to
those who come to see "the child done". I will be reminding all the
sheep that God loves them! That's about as far as it gets. We do the
full liturgy, and a special song for each child is sung. Nancy-Wi
Steve in KS I like your idea, I am calling mine, Little Lambs eat
Scripture! I like the beach scene. Thanks to all. Math is not my bag
but I do find the number thing fun. Nancy-Wi
Being a writer myself, and understand =ing that the Gospels are filled
with numerical codes, I find it hard to believe that John just threw
153 into his account by accident. It seems to me that if there is any
truth to the thought that ancient people assumed that there were 153
species of fish, it would be quite eye opening to a reader in John's
day. John is being subtle, causing us to again think about who this
'Jesus of Nazareth' really is.
Its these numericals numbers and codes (for lack of a better word)
that tighten up the loose ends of Scripture. The more I study the
Bible the more and more that I become amazed at all that is going on
in it. It really is quite a fascinating book and I could never be
convinced that God's hand is not at work in writing it.
A New Pastor from the Jersey Shore...
The Books of Daniel and Revelation are enough encoding for me. I sure
don't want to go looking other places, too.
I'm not trying to contradict anybody's interpretation of Scripture,
but speaking for myself, if word gets out that 153 "means" this, there
are too many people out there who will swear the Bible tells us there
were 153 of something at that time, and there will be nothing, NOTHING
I tell you, that will sway them from that idea. It will become part of
the story, as true as the Resurrection or the conversion of Paul, and
only a heretic would say it wasn't true!
I sat through an Adult Bible Study one Sunday morning where the leader
was using somebody's article on Noah's Ark to tell the class why the
story must be factual as told, because all the numbers, species, days,
etc. all added up to something - or something like that, anyway. I
have mercifully forgotten the gist of it.
KHC
Here's what the New Interpreter's Bible Commentary has to say about
the 153....
"The significance of the number 'a hundred fifty-three' has intrigued
interpreters since the earliest days of the church. Augustine, for
example, proposed two ways of reading this number that still govern
more recent interpretations. First, he proposed a mathematical
explanation. The number 153 is obtained when all the integers from 1
to 17 are added together; this mathematical fact thus suggests the
completeness of the number 153 itself. Second, he suggested, as had
earlier patristic writers (e.g., Cyril of Alexandria), that the number
should read allegorically. Augustine proposed that the number was a
symbol of the Trinity, and while this specific allegorical reading is
rejected by scholars, other allegorical interpretations are proposed.
The most common suggestion is that the number stands for the totality
of the church. In addition to these symbolic readings, some scholars
propose that the number 153 preserves the memory of an eyewitness who
counted the fish." (NIB, Vol. IX, p. 858)
Blessings, Eric in OH
..and one more... Great insights this week! Thanks!
My theme: last week, Jesus "resurrected" the disciples buried in fear
and grief, locked in their tomb, through breathing on them.
This week: "Come and have breakfast" - the reborn are fed and
strengthened; then comes the task: feed lambs, tend sheep, feed sheep.
God just doesn't expect any "new child" to jump right into service and
ministry; nourishing comes first. I wonder if we as pastors harrass
new folks at our churches too early; instead, maybe we should feed
them first, until they are truly strenghtened and ready to go.
Germanpastor in CA
God is Love.
God loves himself as all people, us and our neighbors: as father, as
mother, as brother, as sister, as son and as dtr, as friend and as
foe, as just and unjust, as all words and their opposites: matthew
22:36-40; 5:43-48: and so loves all people, us and our neighbors, as
himself.
He loves US as Himself in order to teach us how to lvoe Him back just
as He loves us by first loving ourselves just as he loves us: as all
words and their opposites!
So since God loves with only Agape Love, all Love and any Love there
is and we have is and can only be Agape Love, no matter what other
name we call it! It is ALL the SAME Agape Love!
So there is NO difference in the quality and quantity of Agape Love
between loving God as my brother and loving my brother as God!
So Phileo Love and all other kinds of Love: sexual, motherly, marital,
nation, and etc are each just specific named-kinds of the same Agape
Love!
QED.
More on 153:
153 is not only the Addition Factorial of 17, the 7th prime Number: 17
+ 16 +...2 + 1 = 153,
it is also the Number that loves itself: the Self-Loving Number: the
Number that is all wrapped up in Love of itself: for the following
reason:
153 is the only number whose integers, when cubed and added, add up
to... you guessed it!...
1 + 125 + 27 = 153!
Ichiban
I'm even later than usual getting started after being away for the
annual BOOM interview for Probationary Elders & am just getting the
chance to see what's going on here. Great discussions going on,
friends. I haven't decided where I'm going yet but am focusing on
Jesus' question, "Do you love me?" On a somewhat off-beat note, every
time I see/hear those words I can't seem to keep a song by that title
from the musical "Fiddler on the Roof" out of my mind. Tevye,
befuddled by his daughters' desire to marry men they love rather than
men he chooses, asks Golde: "Do you love me?...My father and my mother
said we'd learn to love each other, so now I'm asking, Golde, do you
love me?"
If there is a theological connection there, I'll probably find it!
Robbie in KS
