April 19th is both Holocaust Remembrance Day and our celebration of Earth Day, and the lectionary textx for this week don't seem appropriate. Does anybody have ideas on better textx to use, or on how to work within the lectionary for this week?
Thanks.
California Preachin'
Actually, having Holocaust Remembrance Day on April 19th is timely. What I'm considering as the focus of my sermon (taken from the John text, but stopping before the Thomas story) is that the suffering, death, resurrection of Jesus set us free to make righteous choices/decisions.
What caught my attention in this text is that after Jesus speaks, 'Peace', he breathes on disciples to receive the Holy Spirit. Then he moves into forgiveness and explains what happens when we choose to forgive/when we choose not to forgive.
What really struck me is that he doesn't command or even recommend to the disciples which choice to make: To forgive-to not forgive. It's now their choice. Fully. Because the Spirit indwells them. They are no longer captive to making the unrighteous decision. But, free to be responsible.
Response-ability: The ability to respond.
It seems to me, that most folks in culture & church want to be told what/what not to do, act, think, believe. This resurrection text challenges that western Christian ethos. We are free. Free at last. But, it means thinking, discerning, and making informed decisions.
That's the direction I'm headed.
Lisa from Snellville
The proclamation of Easter continues in John's gospel as Jesus appears to his disciples. Jesus' words to Thomas assure us that the blessings of the resurrection are also for those who "have not seen and yet believe."
"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book." This phrase has been bothersome for those seeking to defend the Christian faith to the skeptical. Certainly John, if he were serious about making his case to the doubting, would have provided all of the admissible evidence.
Evidence. Witnesses. Judgment. Punishment. Legal language and courtroom imagery abound today. "I need evidence!" we hear Thomas say to the disciples. "Unless I can verify your claim, I will not believe." Jesus is on trial once again, this time to prove the authenticity of his resurrection.
Yet, can the authenticity of the resurrection be proven? Faith must pick up where certainty leaves off. In "Glimpses of Grace" (Crosswicks, 1996), Madeleine L'Engle writes, "The Resurrection...is beyond the realm of fact (Do you believe in the literal fact of the Resurrection? No! I believe in the Resurrection!) and bursts into the realm of love, of truth, for in Jesus, truth and love are one and the same."
Indeed, the proof is provided by powerful witnesses! In Acts we read, "we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him." What, then, is the function of the witness? To persuade with facts? Or, rather, to be a character witness--to witness with one's life?
In fact, a life-changing event has taken place. The very use of the book of Revelation alerts the worshiper that a judgment of eschatological proportions is about to be issued. The psalmist, too, alerts us to the justice of God, which will prevail. "The right hand of the Lord has triumphed! The right hadn of the Lord is exalted!" And the psalmist rejoices that he has not received the sentence of death: "The Lord has punished me sorely, but he did not hand me over to death."
We, with the psalmist, can rejoice. A "life sentence" has been issued. May we, as the prayer of the day asks, provide the ultimate witness and "show the power of the resurrection in all that we say and do."
The gospel writer interprets the experience of the followers of Jesus after his death and resurrection. The disciples are described as fearful, and we can imagine their grief. But Jesus is present among them, not just once but twice. Each time, Jesus brings peace. In fact, Jesus imparts three gifts to the disciples (and to the church in all times and places): the Holy Spirit, peace, and a commission to carry out God's "forgiving work." This passage is often called "John's Pentecost" because of the gift of the Holy Spirit. The peace Jesus brings is shalom, not just the absence of fear but the presence and possibility of wholeness and integrity as a community. The challenge of the commission to forgive is to "let go."
The risen Christ also brings the gift of assurance that "believing is seeing." We usually restrict our attention to those things right in front of us. But God's gift of faith is a way of knowing that takes us beyond this. Faith is a lens that opens aspects of reality we might otherwise miss. It is knowing the presence of Christ in our midst. Think of two friends walking through the woods. One is a birdwatcher, the other not. The birdwatcher knows all about birds, so she sees birds everywhere, all the time. When she remarks on their abundance, her friends says, "What birds, where? I don't see any birds."
What transforms Mary and the disciples--including Thomas--is a personal encounter with the risen Christ and the gifts he brings. How do our communities of faith occasion this encounter? It is not enough to tell the story: Mary told the disciples that she had "seen the Lord" and the disciples told Thomas, but each still needed a personal encounter. It's an exciting possibility to imagine that even those who "have not seen" may "come to believe." How are we a part of that transformation?
Do you ever wonder what it was like for Jesus at this time in Jesus' life? He had endured the cross and death. He now had this great resurrected body that must have felt so great. He seems to have all the time in the world to drop in on his friends and surprise them at their locked house, Emmaus, the beach, the garden as a gardener. What a blast Jesus must have had being able to walked through locked doors and appear and disappear at will! Does this give us something to look forward to when we experience the resurrection of the body and the beginning of life ever lasting? The focus (in commentaries) is always on the people who see/encounter the Risen Christ, but what about Jesus himself? Is He still enfleshed even now as He sits at the right of the Father? Wondering.
TiminOH
This is my off-tangent musing, follow it and you may get lost...
Why didn't Jesus asked "where were Thomas?" in the first appearance? He just went on and talk about receiving the Holy Spirit, going out, and forgiving sin... At the risk of being understood as "inward looking", I am getting frustrated with the pressure for connecting to irregular-crowd (aka CEOs.) If they are not there, then they are not there. All we can really do is to tell them, "You should be there! We've seen Christ there!" They have to make an effort for being there too!
When Scripture here talked about "A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them..." (v.26), we can't assumed that they meet once a week, and Thomas simply show up the next week. But perhaps they could hang out for a few times without any significant appearance of Jesus too. But Thomas still show up with his friends, and finally got to see the risen Jesus!
There are people who show up at church some day, and disappear a few weeks later. All we can do is be glad that they were there, and love them genuinely when they were there. Was it the responsibility of the pastor to visit everyone who miss church, or is that the responsibility of every single believer?
Boy, I am grumpy today... Thanks for putting up with me...
Coho, Midway City.
Coho in Midway
Somebody posted on the April 11 forum something you might find to feed your pseudo-grumpiness. It's almost at the very last of the submissions on that date and makes reference to no longer feeling responsible for C and E Christians. I agree.
I see a lot of who we are in this passage. Either closed up behind doors with our faith or doubting if there is something to believe in much like Thomas. Jesus comes and reveals himself to the fearful and the doubting. He encourages them to answer his call to go out and be apostles of the Good News to the world.
Jesus breaths the Holy Spirit into them. The last time this happened in the bible Adam came to life. I see this as a new life the apostles are about to begin with Spirit power and I find it interesting that it all happened Easter Sunday evening. They too are risen to a new life as apostles of the Gospel message.
KB in Ks.
From Kathleen Norris' _Amazing Grace: A Vocabulary of Faith_: p.63. "When I first stumbled upon the Benedictine abbey where I am now an oblate, I was surprised to find the monks so unconcerned with my weighty doubts and intellectual frustrations over Christianity. What interested them more was my desire to come to their worship, the liturgy of the hours. I was a bit disappointed-- I had thought that my doubts were spectactular obstalces to my faith and was confused but intrigued when an old monk blithely stated that doubt is merely the seed of faith, a sign that faith is alive and ready to grow."
West Texas Presbyterian
Peace is knowing Christ despite our worldly doubts. Peace is knowing that this life and it's trials and tribulations, is temporary. The peace Christ leaves is the peace that sustains by the power of the Holy Spirit. Nancy-Wi
My Easter sermon, borrowed from somebody on this site, was that if Jesus can break the bonds of death after what was done to him, surely he can break the bonds of the afflictions we suffer. Doubt is one of those afflictions. He will not leave us to figure things out for ourselves. He will provide the answer and the way to make it through whatever comes our way, including doubt.
"Was it the responsibility of the pastor to visit everyone who miss church, or is that the responsibility of every single believer?" My pseudo-grumpiness indeed was fed from last week's Apr. 11 postings and I am just carrying it forward to this week. Fortunately, I think God is dealing with my question above in next week's text in John 21. Thank you so much for many of your symphathy.
Coho, Midway City.
I wonder: where was Thomas? I don't see him as "not worshipping" with the others; I mean, they were terrified, hiding away, afraid, that they might suffer the same as Jesus if they were found.
Was Thomas hiding somewhere else? Was he hiding at all?
Give Thomas a break! The other disciples did not believe before seeing Jesus, so they are no "better" than Thomas. What is very comforting to me: Jesus bestows his peace on believers and the doubting ones without discrimination. Can we do the same?
A little personal note: my husband, a constant doubter, finally decided to get baptized this Easter day - after finding a church in which he, the doubting one, found unconditional love and peace.
Germanpastor in CA
My understanding of Andrew's absence was that he was so overtaken by his grief that he chose to be alone, away from even his friends.
1) It might have been that he was too overwhelmed to be around any reminders, which the disciples would be. After all, they were probably still talking about the events in Jerusalem.
2)It might have been he just didn't handle things well and leaving was his defense mechanism.
3)It may have been that he went to be alone to pray.
But, for me, a major point of this part of the story is that we need to seek the company of others - especially those who completely understand our situation - to help us get through it. If Andrew left to be alone to do his grieving, he missed his chance to receive the support the others might have offered, and he missed the chance to see hope standing right in front of him. When our lives take horrible turns, withdrawing from the believing community only keeps us from the spiritual healing that can be offered there. Just knowing that somebody is listening is a huge help. God may seek us out, as Jesus sought out Thomas, but others may not. It's up to us to let them know what it is we are carrying on our hearts, to go to them and talk about the hurt. They can't read our minds.
This leads me to think about Compassionate Friends, cancer support groups, all the other groups that are there simply because the people there understand what you're going through. Without them, some would stand alone, unable to see the hope that's out there.
A little off the text. I am looking for suggestion for confirmation gifts. Price range 5 to 15 dollars US. Nancy-Wi revncarmichael@yahoo.com
Coho The strangest thing when I first was appointed to the my church, I (like all of you I would guess) was ask to go see "so and so" and see if you can get them to come back to church! when ask why we they left rarely does anyone know or they don't want to share the reason. Crazy! Nancy-Wi
For confirmation gifts for the girls I have gotten them those Dedacho (sp?) angels and focus on their unique gifts; the angel of friendship, the angel of courage depending on their personalities. The guys seem to like chains; necklaces. I have also gotten them necklaces with our denomination symbol on them.
Hope this helps!
dchinks
I came by for the Bible study and the company, but I'm not preaching this week. You DPSers are an important part of my life: you keep me going spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually! God bless you all.
Now, may I chime in?
This pericope resounds sooooo much with me because it was specifically MY own doubt that led me into the ministry. God actually USED my doubt. This is not just in the linear-logic way: where we doubt, we seek, and where we seek, we find (though this, too, is true). I wholeheartedly believe God called me IN the very heart of my doubt - so that my faith cannot be defined by intellect, orthodoxy, how I was raised, or anti-intellect-orthodoxy-rebellion. I was called to ministry prior to believing in God, BTW. The interesting (and, I daresay, fun for me) byproduct of this is that I can have theological conversations with atheists and -uh- shall we say religious nonconformists and actually understand them where they're at.
I'm with the poster who said "Give Thomas a break!" probably because I want a break, myself! but, really, when you think of it, these were the first days of the resurrection - it could be entirely likely that someone PRETENDED to be the risen Christ. Rumors had to be flying like wildfire. The idea that we believe on someone's word alone is just plain old naive: are we expected to believe everything we hear just because the words "God" or "Christ" or "Jesus" are in it? Consider the email hoaxes that abound today. THis is not a new phenomenon! I think Thomas was simply being sensible.
------\\
Next, to you grumpy CEO preachers. I hear you: and I agree there are two sides to the story. It's hard to know when to be the instrument of prevenient grace knocking at the door of a seeker. And when it's simply not your job, and an unfruitful use of your time. Someone said something about being tired of taking responsibility for the CEO's. It's like the inactive members in your church: haven't we all heard from our laity, words like "maybe if we start singing the Doxology here instead of there, they'll come back." Someone who's not even there or interested in being a part of the community is dictating what the community does. It's a fine line we walk on.
Sally in GA
I'm not one who thinks that doubt, in its conventional definition, is something to be overcome. Before each stage of growth, don't we have an uncomfortable period of doubt?
I recall a "Church Ad Project" poster that shows a picture of a man with medical tape over his mouth. The caption reads, "the only problem with churches that have all the answers is that they don't allow questions." This, unfortunately, has been my experience and the experience of many.
This is a GREAT opportunity to reach CEOs - a number of them will attend this week, too, in the desire to turn over a new leaf. My sister is one such ... Please, somebody, recognize her.
Sally
I am going to focus on Thomas as being the witness for today. We all have our doubts and struggles with faith. We can relate well to Thomas and he did the seeing and believing first. Now we can take his doubt with ours and then take his believing with ours. We are those that need to believe without seeing and touching, so we can take Thomas' witness for our own.
BD in IN.
How about the cure for doubt? Is it proof? Anybody going to look at the debate between religion/theology vs science? I dug out my yellowed C.S Lewis Primer - The Grand Miracle. You know this is comin up at Gen'l Conf. for us UMC's. And will we yet discover who we are? How will we be blessed to come to believe?
MrBill in MI
Thanks to West Texas Presbyterian, from a Tennessee Presbyterian. My sermon title this week is "Daring to Doubt" capitalizing on Beuchner's definition: "Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith. They keep it alive and moving." When we doubt, question, even debate, we open up the possibility for growth and transformation. Thomas wanted proof, he had to experience it for himself. So do we all, we all need to experience the resurrected Christ to believe. We simply can't take someone else's word for it. But our questions open the door for that experience.
Tom in TN
Whoever is looking for confirmation gifts - for boy or girl, try one of Bryan Sirchio's CD's. I'd especially recommend "Come As UR", "Artist's Hand" or "Justice and Love" for teens. Go onto www.sirchio.com revjaw
2 nice quotes:
The unbelief of the day was described by the Quaker, Rufus Matthew Jones, an early twentieth century philosopher, and social reformer, as the tragedy of trying to live a maximum life on a minimum of faith.
Another contemporary writer, John Drummond summed up the difference between unbelief and doubt in this way. In regard to faith in Jesus he says:
“Christ himself never failed to distinguish between doubt and unbelief. Doubt is can’t believe; unbelief is won’t believe. Doubt is honesty; unbelief is obstinacy. Doubt is looking for light; unbelief is being content with darkness”.
Nigel+
My turn to be "grumpy" now, I guess... I'd rather face an entire town of doubters than have even a handful of literalist Bible students who refuse to believe there is more than one way to interpret Scripture. Their absolute non-doubt about everything they have been taught in their weekly national Bible study group gives me the cold chills.
Where is the room for the Spirit to move? Where is the place for discussion? There is none, because they already have the whole truth ingrained in their heads. Give me Thomas saying "please show me" over this "God said it, and that settles it for me" any day of the week.
KHC
Sally, your comment that God reached you "In your doubt" really sent some sparks in my thinking. In was way God does that for everyone?
I am going to show some clips from the first Matrix... the one who doubted that Neo was "the one"
I am with you KHC, I endured 13 years hosting a certain national women's bible study in my last church. In many ways a great organization, but the attendees who came from that background were some of the most obstinately dogmatic believers I have known.
When theology is taught as a list of conclusions, it makes it hard to accept and admit doubt. Plus you can't have as much fun with the Greek and Hebrew...ha.
Stan from Tacoma
My Senior Pastor used to call the Sunday after Easter "Low Sunday" because the attendence was always down. Therefore he always let me preach that week as the associate.
After 15 years of that I have a couple of ideas.
I love the first part of the passage, John's Pentecost. Jesus breathing on the disciples is a beautiful image. He is standing toe to toe and face to face with the disciples and breathing on them. The way he gives the holy spirit is similar to the way God gave the spirit in Genesis when God created a man out of clay and breathed into it the "spirit of life." The first spirit gave us life, the second one brings us eternal life.
Be at peace, receive the spirit, you are toe to toe with Jesus. Feel his presence!
The second part of this text with Thomas is also important. He represents all of us. Those who doubt, Those who wrestle with doubt. Jesus says blessed are those who believe and have not seen. Ask your congregation if they know anyone who has believed in the Resurrection without actually seeing it. Have them look around the room. Of course all believers fall into that category. But you can remind them that Jesus' has said they are blessed!
FYI
Final note, Elaine Pagels new book, Beyond Belief is fascinating. She suggest that much of the book of John is a reaction to the Gospel of Thomas. Her speculation is that the reason Thomas is not present when the spirit is given and the power to forgive is declared is because Thomas community is in opposition to John's and therefore without the spirit.
I don't think this will make my sermon, but it is interesting to consider.
Be at peace,
The best is yet to be,
Rev Ed in MN
Use the psalm for Earth Day! Let everything that breathes praise God!
MMM
It's hard to believe we are still talking about CEO's! That means it must be an interesting subject.
We pointed out that there are actually seven Sunday's in Easter. We then encouraged everybody to attend all of them for the full realization of the power and grace available through our risen savior!
RZS in Pa
I've spent the better part of today typing out my Adult SS lesson for the next 6-7 weeks. The subject (although seemingly misplaced after Easter)
is the Arrest, Trial and Crucifixion of Jesus. I spent a great deal of time today writing about Jesus in Gethsemane. Doubt filled his heart about whether this was the "only way". You know the rest..... If doubt can afflict the Son of God, surely it is part of every believer's life. Jesus prayed his way from doubt to conviction. We might need another avenue, but we can get there one way or the other. God bless us in our seeking.
KHC
Long time reader, first time poster!
I, too, think Thomas has been given a really bad rap! As a matter of fact, I think the opposite is true of Thomas-- therefore, my sermon is going to be titled, "Believing Thomas and the Deer in the Headlights." I know, it sounds pretty wierd, but before you call the nice people in white coats to come and put a straight jacket on me, let me explain. I submit that a closer reading of the gospel reveals that Thomas required nothing more than the other disciples to believe that Jesus was alive. Jesus comes in and says, "Peace be with you." I can almost imagine ten faces just staring at him [e.g. Deer in the headlights]. "After he said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord." They saw the wounds-- THEN they rejoiced. They had to see to believe. When they tell Thomas what happened, of course he was skeptical. He had witnessed the bumbling ineptitude of the disciples for three years-- Why should this be any different. So Thomas says, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side [just as you have], I will not believe."
However, when Thomas does see Jesus, he does not put his fingers or hands in the wounds. Instead, Thomas becomes the first person in history to understand who Jesus is. "My Lord and my God!"
Thomas understood Jesus as YHWH! He understood better than anyone else! Again I imagine the blank stare on the faces of the other apostles. Believing Thomas required no more than the others to not just recognize Jesus, but to recognize Jesus as God, YHWH. This Sunday, we will give thanks and praise for the faith of Thomas!
Sincerely,
SimpleSeminarian
Simple Seminarian's comment about the Deer in Headlights reminded me of something that happened when I was in seminary. The prof in preaching class asked how many of us were afraid of public speaking. Every hand went up. Yet God still gives us the task.
It has been my experience that nothing evokes the Deer in Headlights look in church members faster than to tell them that Jesus said, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you."
I may begin at that point, and then take the congregation to the Acts 5 passage and talk about how these freaked-out deer became the courageous ones who filled Jerusalem with Jesus's teachings.
How did they get there?
How do we get there?
GC in IL
"Doubt is merely the seed of faith, a sign that faith is alive and ready to grow" - West Texas Presbyterian had posted...
Doubt is not bad in itself, it's how you response to it would determine which way it goes, positive or negative.
In fact, if there is 100% certainty, would we need faith at all? (Would you need faith to turn on the light before entering the room? How about praying and expecting healing for someone?)
Glen Miller at "A Christian Thinktank" observed that people has different level of presiquisite for knowledge. Some need a lot of evidences to offset their skepticism, some need very little. But regardless of what are our "doubt-level", faith is the only way to know and experience God.
Mr. Bill in MI asked, "How about the cure for doubt? Is it proof?" I don't think proof would do the job. I think the main factor is the encounter, proof was just helping us to articulate that encounted-reality better to others. But perhaps, it depends how much intellectual work required for the "doubt-level" of a person.
And on each individual, there are different threshold settings of emotion, intellect, and will power, which produced different requirements to obtained faith. I think Thomas was just wired with a bit higher negativity built-in in his persona (not doubt, but negative, permissism) according to all the Bible references I dug up on him so far. And to him, Jesus graciously met him where he was.
Coho, Midway City.
Lisa from Snelville: Great ideas about preaching this for Holocaust. I'm still not quite sure where I'll go with it, but I will probably use some of your ideas. (I already planned to stop before the Thomas part of the text.
MMM: I decided not to use this week's Psalm for Earth Day but am instead using the beginning of Genesis for that and am arranging most of the liturgy (hymns, etc.) around Earth Day. I am preaching on the lectionary gospel text and focusing more on Holocaust Remembrance Day there. I chose a bit of Psalm 10 as the second reading, to also go along with Holocaust Remembrance/repentance.
Thanks for another good discussion!
Peace,
California Preachin'
Sally, I haven't had trouble getting on, only time to do so.
"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not
written in this book."
How powerful this must have been, since only this is recorded and they didn't seem to need to record the others. Sort of like the minutes of a meeting. Discussion held, and this was the result when the future readers would be interested in all of the discussion.
Many good suggestions. The breath I am thinking of how this breath of life, is also the breath of hope, the breath of peace, and the breath of change. Nancy-Wi
I'm daring to do something new (at least for me) this week. My resident Lay Speaker and I are attempting a dialogue sermon on the Gospel text. I'm not sure how well it will go over with the 2 congregations, but it is something I've wanted to try & never had time to work out while I was in seminary.
We are focusing on v. 21 and addressing the question, "What Kind of Peace?" -- looking at several concepts of "peace" from the view of the world and from personal understandings of it and then focusing on what we understand the Peace of Christ to be. Since the two of us come from opposite places in our theology/political views, yet see some things in much the same way, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all turns out.
Meanwhile, I'm taking my Confirmation youth to the Conference Confirmation Rally this weekend -- a new experience for all of us! I am looking forward to it, but covet your prayers for the youth & myself!
Robbie in KS
As a kid named Thomas and getting all the smirks from the other kids in Sunday School whenever we talked about "Doubting" Thomas I take it as my mission in life to come to his defence. Mary told the others that she had seen Jesus but they didn't seem to believe it either until he appeared to them. Thomas just happened to be out. Who knows why, maybe he was picking up a pizza or burgers.
The text does not say Thomas actually touched Jesus, so we may see him as one who in the end, having seen the risen Jesus, did not need the strongest form of confirmation that Jesus was alive. In other words, even Thomas was not wholly devoid of faith, or at least was not unwilling to believe when he saw Jesus, unlike some characters portrayed in this Gospel. Thomas enters the story as a clear-eyed realist who knows that following Jesus back to Judea means risking death. He calls others to go with Jesus even if it means dying with him (11.16), but Thomas does not understand that Jesus' death will be his exaltation. He does not understand where Jesus is going (14.5). He cannot comprehend an appearance of the risen Christ (20.25). Realist more than doubter, Thomas stands in for all who, like Mary Magdalene, embrace the earthly Jesus but have yet to recognize the risen Christ.
I served for many years on Outdoor Ministry staffs, and one of our most interesting icebreakers to play was called "Favorite Scar Stoy". The kids would really open up to one another about events in their lives that led to them having scars, both funny and extremely emotional. I only offer that at the root of it all, Thomas needed to hear the Jesus' story again to take it all in that the one whom they had loved and followed had died and was raised. I know I still remember vivdly some of the stories that were told to me even though years have passed and names have faded. It is in the sharing of our suffering and the knowledge that Jesus' fully understands it that we can cry out, "My Lord and My God!" PBG in IL
I cannot resist the implications of v. 26 and the phrase, "Although the doors were shut, Jesus came stood among them," and see this as a metaphor about our lives being closed and walled off from the epiphanies of God. We sometimes talk about the scene of Jesus standing at the doors of our heart and knocking to enter in. Clearly, this is part of the picture. What happens on the other hand is God's action to intrude into our lives, to come barging in with life and light. Isn't that what grace is all about?
At a continuing education event a couple of years ago, I heard one of the best descriptions of doubting Thomas that I have ever heard. I loved it especially, because my brother, Tom, was always our "doubting Thomas." The words I heard at this event were used about 3 weeks later at my brother's unexpected death, as a part of his eulogy. Anyway, this is what was said,
Doubting Thomas gets a bum rap for being called "Doubting Thomas" because he really didn't doubt Jesus, he doubted the words of the disciples. (With Good reason. He had traveled around with these clowns for 3 years, witnessed their lack of faith etc.) He was a man of integrity, who would not say he believed in something he didn't. He wasn't afraid to ask the tough questions. And the most important thing is that Jesus met him there. Not with any condemnation or judgement, but allowing him to see the evidence he needed in order to believe. And his response was "MY LORD AND MY GOD!"
Susan in Wa.
The two images in this passage that I love to address are: 1) the door shut, and the disciples locked in fear inside.And Jesus coming in and standing with them. (That sometimes Jesus does come to us, uninvited, into our fears and gives us peace.) and 2.) That even though we sometimes lock ourselves up in fear, we are still called to go out and be the "sent ones." and that Jesus, again, gives us the peace and power of His Holy Spirit to do as we are called to do.
Susan in Wa.
v. 30 is kinda strange..."Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book."
What other signs/miracles are needed to convince the disciples after his resurrection?
I mean, what more needs to be done... :?) if they (Thomas included) didn't get it now, when would they? How many signs are enough?
Just curious...
pulpitt in ND
I'm with KHC. We sometimes are intimidated by the "believers" that quote the scripture and it is their way or now way. We need to let our people know that it is OK to doubt, that it is not all black and white like some waant you to belive. God gave us minds to use and reason with.
Phil Presbyerian from Montana
There are plenty of reasons in our world to lock ourselves away in fear and doubt. But Jesus comes to us, like he came to the disciples, and before we can say a word, he gives us his peace. While Thomas had conditions before he would believe,Jesus puts no conditions on this gift. He gives his peace not because they believed, but in order that they would believe, and it seems to me the message of this Gospel is that it's the same for us. And this peace frees us to go out into a world not because it is suddenly free of conflict but because the risen Lord is with us.
I don't have the citations on me at the moment, but I remember a discussion on Thomas that noted various other times in John when he asked Jesus questions that were very legitimate--"How can this be?" kinds of questions. I remember its being said that he only asked the questions that the other disciples were too chicken to ask.
We're dedicating copies of "The Faith We Sing" this week--I was going to preach a happy Easter-y thing based on the psalm, but this discussion is very good and important. I really like the link that GC in IL made between the locked up, scared disciples in John and the unafraid witnesses in Acts.
Laura in TX
I love stories.
I love the way the easter story told last week is retold in similar way this week.
Last week, it was early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark
This week, it is evening, on the first day of the week. …
Last week it was in the morning, this wee, we are on the same day but in the evening.
Seems to me, in the same way the day began, it ends.
Easter day began with Mary Magdalene and the rest of us
expecting Jesus to be in a locked up tomb
And then we find that locked up tombs cannot keep Jesus in!
Easter day ends with the disciples and us thinking themselves safe
in a locked up house
(their condition of fear makes the locked room a tomb of sorts!)
And then we find that locked up rooms cannot keep Jesus out!
………still working.
Storyteller
When it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." (John 20:19)
.... and the doors ... were locked for fear of ....
What do we make of this? The disciples were in hell. They had denied and abandoned their Lord. It wasn't only the Jews they feared, they feared their own fear, they were full of guilt which binds us. Their shame was overwhelming. The very Lord they had followed and given their lives to, they now have left to die alone. They had forsaken Jesus and found "safety" in the upper room. Jesus felt physical pain, but he suffered the loss of his Father and his initmate friends at the moment of his passion and death.
We must not go past this first verse too quickly for it contains the seed of the disciples' experience of resurrection. We must be very clear. Resurrection is not primarily about the God-man, but about us. Being confronted by the Crucified and Risen Lord brings us into a new creation, new life. We are the one's raised from the dead! Raised from our fear, our rejection, our weaknesses into Christ. Only when we probe the mystery before us can we like Thomas, bend the knee, and proclaim "My Lord and my God."
tom in ga
Stan: you're sooo right! God reaches EVERYone in their doubt; it's called (in Wesleyan terms) prevenient grace.
There's something about doubt, though, that I absolutely love. I like the Buechner quote, "Ants in the Patns of faith." I'd heard that, but had forgotten it until now.
It was when I was preaching about God reaching us in doubt that a member of the congregation (who, I admit, was bent on finding SOMEthing wrong regardless of what I said or did) stood up and hollered out, "Anyone who would doubt the resurrection of Christ is from the devil! I'm leaving!" and he tossed down a $100 bill wrapped up in a $1 and left.
Since the congregation was stirred up, we stayed to talk about it afterward - (because of the reverberation in the room and his being in the last pew, I hadn't made out his words - only that he was hollering and angry) and the concensus was that, "Well, it's nice that his faith is strong enough to not have doubt, but most of us still doubt." Though I tried to talk about doubt as a blessing, it was like they couldn't wrap their minds around the concept.
Where is it we get the impression that doubt is to be overcome? We can't willfully conquer our own doubt - and I think that this is the trouble with many literalists: they're every bit as human-centered as the "religious nonconformists" I mentioned in my earlier post - and yet, they use the God-talk to leverage others into being somehow intimidated, or in a position that makes it look like doubters have less than desirable faith.
But hey (and he'd followed me from the other church I'd preached at that morning where he also left $101 in the same fashion, but without the hollering - it was a circuit), my doubting Thomas side got $202 for the Kingdom
Sally
