Scripture Text (NRSV)
Hebrews 11:29-12:2
11:29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as if it were
dry land, but when the Egyptians attempted to do so they were drowned.
11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell after they had been
encircled for seven days.
11:31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who
were disobedient, because she had received the spies in peace.
11:32 And what more should I say? For time would fail me to tell of
Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the
prophets--
11:33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice,
obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
11:34 quenched raging fire, escaped the edge of the sword, won
strength out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to
flight.
11:35 Women received their dead by resurrection. Others were
tortured, refusing to accept release, in order to obtain a better
resurrection.
11:36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and
imprisonment.
11:37 They were stoned to death, they were sawn in two, they were
killed by the sword; they went about in skins of sheep and goats,
destitute, persecuted, tormented--
11:38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts
and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
11:39 Yet all these, though they were commended for their faith,
did not receive what was promised,
11:40 since God had provided something better so that they would
not, apart from us, be made perfect.
12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of
witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings
so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set
before us,
12:2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith,
who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross,
disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of
the throne of God.
Comments:
The author of Hebrews presents us with a long list of biblical heroes
whose exemplary faith enabled them to face the trials of life. In
addition to this "cloud of witnesses," we have Jesus, the perfect
model of faithful endurance.
11:35 Women received their dead by resurrection. Others were tortured,
refusing to accept release, in order to obtain a better resurrection.
Anybody know what this refers to? Nancy-Wi
I would hazard a guess that the women receiving the dead were Mary and
Martha receiving Lazarus (sp?) and those tortured were the more recent
Christians suffering persecution in their local settings. But I could
be wrong..... The list of the faithful provides a long grouping of
possibilities for sermon illustrations but my mind wanders to the
cloud of witnesses that is even more personal, those we knew
personally. Checking on stories of those dead and the ministries they
were involved in could be difficult since I am in a new church for me
but it might be helpful.
What's with verses 37 and 38 11:37 They were stoned to death, they
were sawn in two, they were killed by the sword; they went about in
skins of sheep and goats, destitute, persecuted, tormented--
11:38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and
mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
Does this describe some of the early Christians who went to live in
the wilderness or those who died?
Newbie in AR
Newbie in AR These are all Old Testament figures.
Shalom bammamma
Are we settlers or pioneers. Great resource: summary of book by Wes
Seeliger: "Western Theology" can be found at http://servant.org/pa_ft.htm
Tom in TN
Nancy-wi
"Preaching through the Church Year" Craddock, et al. Says this could
refer to the time of the Maccabean revolt and the death of the
faithful.
Padresac-MS
Nancy wi – HI! The Oxford Annotated Bible, 1962 (RSV) has the
following references for Hebrews 12:35: I Kings 17:17 - 24; II Kings
4:25 – 37; and II Macabees 7: 9, 14. Hope this is helpful. Thanks for
the encouragement the other day! God bless you. jcrosby@ltsp.edu
If you preach on this, don't forget the Olympic tie-in with "running
the race" "surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses". Coho.
Ken, I did read your message. I did not know the surg was so
extensive. I will continue to pray for you. Struggling with this
passage, sure hope to get as much help as usual from the DPSers. Also
from WV
This is some info I found, in "The Peoples New Testament" by B.W.
Johnson. This makes more sense to me now 32-38. What shall we more
say? All these cases are examples of heroic deeds and holy lives of
faith. And the Scriptures are full of them; of such examples as Gideon
(Judges 6:11); Barak (Judges 4:1); Samson (Judges 13:1); Jephthae
(Judges 11:1); of David also (1 Sam. 16:1); Samuel (1 Sam. 1:20); The
prophets. Many of these were illustrious examples of the power of
faith. [329] 33. Who through faith subdued kingdoms. Some of those
named subdued kingdoms, as Barak, Gideon, David. Obtained promises.
Promises were made to many of the worthies named. Stopped the mouths
of lions. The case of Daniel is the most remarkable. See Dan. 6:20.
34. Quenched the violence of fire. See the case of "the Hebrew
children" in Dan. 3:19-28. Escaped the edge of the sword. See 1 Sam.
18:10, 11. 35. Women received their dead raised to life again. The
widow of Zarephath (1 Kings 17:17-24) and the Shunammite (2 Kings
4:18-37) are examples. Others were tortured. This was especially true
in the terrible persecutions recorded in the Book of Maccabees. A
better resurrection. They preferred to suffer in hope of the
resurrection to eternal life. 36. Others had trial of, etc. This was
true of many persecutions recorded in Jewish history. 37. They were
stoned. See 1 Kings 21:10-15; 2 Chron. 24:21. Sawn asunder. The Talmud
says that this was Isaiah's fate. 38. Of whom the world was not
worthy. When it rejects the good it shows its unworthiness. They
wandered in deserts. To hide from persecutors. Also from WV
Hebrews 11 goes through name after name, generation after generation
of people in Israel's history as examples meant to encourage readers
in their faith in God's promise: that they have a happy future with
God and all God's people. Holding up these ancient examples of faith,
however, was a risk on the author's part that could have backfired.
These were a people weary of fighting in apparently futility against
the world. They could easily have noted that the struggle of that
great "cloud of witnesses" from the past seemed to have brought no
lasting improvement in the world, and furthermore, that the witnesses
themselves were badly flawed. What kind of role model is Rahab, the
prostitute and traitor to her own people (Joshua 2:1-21)? What about
Gideon, who slaughtered many people and who made an idol from the gold
of those he conquered (Judges 7-8)? Sampson was no better, nor were
the rest on the list. It would be easy to perceive in these examples
as those who gave in to the fear of death and took the quick victory.
Why not? After all, those on the list of witnesses who did resist
ended up miserable or dead. And to what purpose? The author himself
admits that "they did not receive what was promised..." (11:39).
The author of Hebrews must have been aware that the Christians of his
generation were feeling the pinch of being a minority group. The
rewards of this life must have looked so good to them that they were
tempted to believe that this life is all there is. But those who
consider previous generations of no account because they feel that
their own generation is the best, or the worst, or the most important,
or the only generation, also render themselves of no value in the
future. The every-generation-for-itself approach leads to the
conclusion that it does not matter what you do or how you live. The
past is past, and the future holds no guarantee. Why should we
struggle? Why not just conform? Sin clings so closely that it can be
discouraging, especially when the world promises instant gratification
to those who choose to ignore the past or the future.
Besides, how can you trust a God who promises and doesn't deliver,
even to those who are tortured, mocked, beaten, imprisoned, stoned,
sawn in two, stabbed and exiled because they refuse to compromise
justice for the sake of a lesser promise? But to settle for a lesser
promise is to settle for a lesser god. There are gods who are lenient
with people who think the promise is for them alone, and who find
justice too hard or who prefer not to be concerned with the poor.
After all, the poor can offer nothing, especially if they are orphans
(the unrelated poor of the next generation). But Psalm 82:7 reveals
how the living God deals with children of these lesser gods: "‘You
shall die like mortals,' like the mortals whose foundations you have
shaken." Lest there be some doubt of God's sincerity, Jeremiah
reiterates God's conviction: "Is not my word like a fire, says the
Lord, and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?" (23:29).
To avoid this morass of human hedonism and divine damnation, the
author rivets his readers' eyes on Jesus, the "founder and finisher of
faith" (12:2). This one chose to endure the cross rather than to enjoy
a partial, temporary or solitary victory. A win too early is not big
enough, and comes from a god who is not big enough. The author of
Hebrews describes Jesus as one who calls us brothers and sisters so
that his death can stand for ours and can make us people for whom sin
has been laid aside. Jesus does not want his victory to leave anyone
out, so he comes to his resurrection the hard way, through a shameful
death as a sinner, in spite of the temptation to avoid it. The risen
Jesus is humanity's future. And the cloud of witnesses testify that in
Jesus' resurrection God is creating that future.
The faith that Hebrews encourages in any generation is not faith in
human goodness, but faith in God's promise fulfilled. What made the
ancient Judges of Israel faithful witnesses was not their lackluster
goodness, nor their conquest of their enemies, but their firm
conviction that God was telling the truth when God assured them of a
future for their people in spite of the strong opposition they faced.
Having faith does not necessarily result in experiencing victory
because it is not victory that is promised—or, at least, the victory
that is promised is not complete until all have come through, which
Jesus makes possible. We could not win if the witnesses before us had
not struggled. They cannot win if we do not struggle. The same is true
for future generations. We finish together. "See to it that no one
fails to obtain the grace of God..." (12:15). Faith hangs on to Christ
and the cloud of witnesses testify to that.
The community that keeps its eyes on Jesus is not so easily distracted
by sin with its lesser promises. But Jesus himself warns that such a
group can expect stress, both within their own souls and from others,
until the Holy Spirit has seared her way through all generations and
has completed everything (Luke 12:49-56). But even if we struggle
throughout our lives with the weight of our particular sin, God's
promise holds, as it did for the not-so-saintly ancient witnesses. God
has "promised something better" (11:40) for us because of the faith we
share with "so great a cloud of witnesses" (12:1). When everyone is
ready, we will all be together in Christ with God, sharing in God's
powerful goodness in a trouble-free world forever.
Carolyn Schneider
In
NIB I found that the word translated 'race' is greek 'agon' which can
actually be any athletic event, but in this setting clearly describes
a race. Agon is where we get words like 'agonize,' it says.
I remember that great introduction to sport events that used to play
on TV, with the phrase, "the thrill of victory, and the agony of
defeat." The clip during the latter was a skier tumbling down a slope.
To a great extent, sports are agony. In a race of 10 runner, 9 'lose.'
It must be agony for them. In life and faith, often we seem to be
'losing.' But Hebrews never speaks about winning. Its only concern is
throwing off what holds us back and running with perserverance,
looking to Jesus, who seemed to have lost his race until the photo (I
wish!) finish!
Rebecca in MD
Hello All,
It's been while since I last posted here, but I continue to check back
now and then.
It struck me earlier today that the examples given in this passage,
the "great cloud of witnesses," are all great, but very flawed,
people. (See Carolyn Schneider's comments above and you'll see what I
mean.) But then the writer said that these people did what they did by
faith. Even the moaning children of Israel, lost in the desert because
of their own sins were able to cross through the Red Sea--because God
gave them the gift of faith!
If God could do such great things with such flawed people, imagine
what he could do with a wreck like me? The hopeful message in this
passage is that we run the same race--flawed, but faithful--and we can
have the victory through Jesus Christ, the pioneer and perfecter of
our faith.
I plan on focusing on the stories of these flawed people of God,
letting their stories bring out the message that God can do great
things with ordinary and flawed people (like us), and then draw in the
idea that our goal is to respond to God, through faith, and allow God
to use us in ways we couldn't imagine possible.
Thanks for all your input this week, folks!
David MacDonald (formerly macdonde)
In the book, 'the five people you meet in heaven' He worked at Ruby
pier as a maintence supervisor,Eddie dies trying to save a little
girl. He is transported to heaven. There he encounters 5 people who
help him learn lessons from his life.
Mitch Albom writes about Eddie's encounter with Ruby. Ruby tells Eddie
about how her husband built Ruby Pier for her. What Eddie didn't know
was how her story and his life connected. Eddie says to her, So why am
I here", "I mean, your story, the fire, it all happened befre I was
born." Ruby replies, : Things that happen before you ar eborn still
affect you, and people wocome berore your time affect you as well.
We move through places every day that would nver have been if not for
those who came berfore us. Or workplaces, where we spend so much
time-we often think they began with our arrival, that's not true."
She goes on to explain if not for Emile, (her husband) she would have
had no husband, no marriage, no pier, and Eddie would not have worked
there.
I am not sure that I will use this yet, but thought it worth sharing.
Nancy-Wi
People who didn't give up when the going got tough. Parents. Teachers.
Ministers and Sunday School teachers. Doctors and Medical Researchers.
Where would we be without their struggles, trials, failures and
successes? We have learned because they were here and kept pushing
forward.
To whom are we a witness, not so much by what we say but by how we
spend our daily lives? Are we leaving pointers toward or away from
God? What would people say about our witness, evidence of our faith,
in 1000 years?
Thank you, Nancy in Wi. for helping me form my thoughts. I've given up
on the Luke page and just came over here.
Late again, as usual... but since there aren't many posts over here,
I'll add my thoughts. I was watching the Olympic opening ceremonies
last night, and thinking about how we can all be witnesses because of
the wonders of television. But quickly I became disenchanted with all
the ads and spin and realized how much us TV viewers miss. We'll never
get to see the badmitten or water polo events... nor many of the
contestants (especially non-Americans) who don't come close to
winning. We don't get the smells and the feel of being there in
person.
The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible defines a witness as a
person who has firsthand knowledge of a fact or event. I'm going to
talk about the witnesses who have come before us (Biblical as well as
contemporary) and then encourage people to take their place in the
cloud of witnesses. But in order to be part of the cloud of witnesses,
to witness to God's power and presence on the earth, people have to
have their own experience of God, first hand knowledge. And then they
have to be willing to tell it. It's not a question of spouting off
correct doctrine, or telling someone else's story, but of sharing our
own experience of God.
For some reason this seems to be an unpopular topic in my mainline
(Presbyterian) congregation. People don't think they have experienced
God. It's not part of their vocabulary, or something they are actively
seeking (at least out loud). Or they may have had some experience, but
they don't trust it, or are shy about telling others. They are content
to let me tell it.
If there's anybody still out there, I'd love to hear further thoughts.
Thanks all for getting me started. As usual, you all are always
helpful. DGinNYC
I watched the Olympics last night, too, and I'm trying to figure out
what feels like a contrast, but one I'm not clear on. Most of the ads
lift up the "Olympic spirit" and especially the drive and
determination it takes for athletes to make it. This would be the
"running with perseverance" part. But an athlete's motivation for
running (or swimming, etc.) could come from a whole range of places,
as can his/her belief in what it is that takes them to the finish
line. I'm sure there are some who run the race empowered by the
knowledge that God and people who love them and who came before have
helped them get where they are and give them strength for the race.
But others are probably pretty self-reliant and count just on their
own strength.
I guess instead of a contrast, it probably ends up a combination of
both. In the scripture, faith is the means by which all these people
did what they did. But clearly they had to have perseverance too, a
decision to keep on, despite all the good reasons not to.
I'm not sure this contributes to anything at all! I'm just interested
in the interaction of personal spirit and power that comes by faith.
I'd be real interested, too, in anything else others have to say! It's
been a pretty sparse week on this site.
Laura in TX
Our church is having trouble getting Sunday School teachers and
Elders. Real trouble. I think this is the Sunday I will encourage them
to remember the witnesses to Christ who were active in this church
when they were growing up here, remind them that if it weren't for
them, the present church would not exist, and encourage them to step
up and help us continue to build our paths toward the Kingdom not only
for our own sakes but for the sake of future generations. They keep
saying they are afraid our church will close soon, but they don't want
to do anything to build program or evangelize. We, too, are
Presbyterians, and seem to think the monied of the community will just
drop in on us and stay. Not gonna happen. We need to offer something,
to be witnesses in the community, to be witnesses to ourselves of our
faith and our devotion to Christ Jesus. Now, to say all that without
offending to the point of rebellion and finger-pointing.
Again, I thank Nancy-WI. for her last post that got me going. I was
wandering around with no focus, came to the Hebrews forum and she gave
me exactly what I needed this week. Appreciate!
KHC
Laura in Tx, I like your take on perseverance and going for the Gold.
A friend of mine was a medalist in the 1968 Olympic Games and her
whole point was just to do her best and bring pride to the people she
represented (mostly her hometown). But nowadays, there is so much at
stake, such a difference between silver and gold. The Gold medal
winners get endorsement contracts (often, but not always) with
Wheaties, Nike, or some other big name company. In some countries
there is a bonus of a new house and a million dollars for medaling in
any color medal. So, the allure of winning for the sake of winning
itself and bringing pride is getting muddled with the dream of fame
and profit. Sad shift, but there it is.
Already drug use is an Olympic issue, drugs used to enhance athletic
performance. Apparently one of Greece's top athletes has withdrawn
from the Games because they wouldn't let him participate unless he
passed a drug screen. Perseverance gets easier and easier when you
cheat, because you're not out to WIN the Gold, but to STEAL the Gold.
Thieves are very persistent.
True winners don't take the easy road. They struggle and fall and try
again until they make it or they don't. But they never succumb to
fakery, even in the face of what looks like defeat.
I'm glad that the quote was helpful. Ruby pier in the book is an
amusment pier. Sorry for the typos.
I think the most important race in life is the one each of us runs
each day. Some days it is triumphant and other it is agony. Most of
the time it is a team effort and it is often based upon prior
knowledge. Some of it is natural ability, some is heart or faith, some
of us just run on hope. Hope that we don't fall, don't trip, don't run
into any bad traffic on the course. There are days when I am content
to just find the way! Think of the Amazing race, how many pitfall
there are on each leg. How one person help or hinderence can change
the outcome. How understanding and communication skills can be a boost
or a downfall. What gets us through is faith. Still pondering Nancy-Wi
I LOVE the Amazing Race! It's a Tuesday night addiction!
Since it's late Saturday afternoon I figure I can go off-text just
this little bit.
I have written and edited my sermon for tomorrow and I still don't
like it - I am and Episcopal deacon and a volunteer ombudsman. I want
to introduce to you a lady at the nursing home who I think embodies
this passage about faith and perseverance. She was bedfast - I don't
know what her problem was except to say that she was on oxygen and was
confined to bed. The people on her wing all visited her and were
always quick to tell me when she had had a bad spell - when she
couldn't breathe. One Saturday morning, after a particularly bad
night, Mrs. Reagor told me she just didn't understand why she was
still living. She wasn't good for anything just lying in bed - what
could God possibly have in mind for her to do that he was keeping her
alive. I offered prayer for her - and she asked if Episcopalians would
pray for Nazarenes - joking even in her pain. I then asked what she
would like for us to pray for her - comfort and ease? Oh no!, she
replied - please pray that I am in the grace and will of God - and
then her eyes began to twinkle and her mouth turned up - as she looked
inward and said, and that my little light will shine. And then she
began to sing the children's song - This little light of mine - I
joined in with her on the chorus. We couldn't either one of us think
of the words to the verses. Mrs. Reagor shared her deep and abiding
faith with me. Pray that I am in the grace and the will of God and
that my little light will shine. In his sermon on the Mount, Jesus
said, "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be
hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl.
Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in
the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men." Mrs.
Reagor shared the light of Christ with me. Indeed, what could God
possibly have in mind for her to do? Bedfast and sick - I took her
faith and her light with me to every person I visited with that day -
and I share it with you today. Olympic faith and perseverance to the
end . . . I wanted to find the words to the verses we had forgotten -
spent two weeks trying to find them before I had an inspiration to ask
a friend of mine - it actually took two friends for us to come up with
the verses.
This little light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine. This little light
of mine, I'm gonna let it shine. Let it shine! Let it shine! Let it
shine!
Hide it under a bushel, no no no! I'm gonna let it shine. Hide it
under a bushel, no no no! I'm gonna let it shine. Let it shine! Let it
shine! Let it shine!
Don't let Satan whoo it out. I'm gonna let it shine.
Mrs. Reagor died before I got to sing with her again. I will always
remember her and her example of faithful perseverance and be grateful
that I got to share in her light. I can envision her, winner of the
marathon, standing on the podium, anthem blaring, embraced by Christ,
gold medal in hand.
David MacDonald,
Did you graduate from a certain seminary in Ohio?
RB in PA
What struck me is the last phrase of the 11th chapter of Hebrews,
"They would not, apart from us, be made perfect." This tells me that
we are connected to the great heroes of faith, and they are connected
to us! We are on a relay team, and the baton has just been handed to
us. Should we drop the baton, or just give up, all the effort, sweat,
tears and suffering of the previous generations has been for nothing!
---David Clarke in Ohio
With the opening ceremony of the Olympics still fresh on my mind and
with the lectionary close at hand, I open my mind and heart to God's
voice. What I hear from Isaiah is that God had certain expectations of
what the Divine planting would produce. It didn't work out like it was
supposed to. Reality set in.
One thing I really enjoy about the Olympics is the feeling of
expectation, not only of the athletes, but also my own. I get excited
learning the stories behind the athletes and there struggle becomes
somehow my own. I cheered them on, and watch as their effort produces
the fruit of reality.
The choicest vines produced "stinky" grapes (my translation). Our
faith however, will not produce rotten fruit because we have been
grafted onto the Vine of Christ through his obedience to God's will.
He is the pioneer, the founder and foundation, of our faith. He is
also the perfecter of our faith, the One who will take our finite
effort and make it God's shining Gold Medal.
Thanks be to God for our Reality Check in Christ Jesus!
RB in PA
For the one searching for verses to "This little light of mine" don't
forget that last verse of "Let it shine til Jesus Comes". There is a
series of music cds and tapes with children's bible songs that has a
WONDERFUL collection of children's and old favorites that I highly
recommend to work with children. I have used them for the last 9 years
VERY effectively with several different churches. The kids love to
sing with the other children's voices and it doesn't matter if there
are only a few children like in my churches. The "Gospel" versions are
the BEST with a wonderful beat. My kids love to add dance steps to
those! Hope you can find them.....
Also have to add that My great grandmother was just like the lady in
the nursing home - she also wondered why she was still around at 91 -
but her prayers sustained me through several years of seminary! Newbie
in AR
I appreciate Tom's reference to Wesley Seeliger's WESTERN THEOLOGY. I
was a friend of Wes' at Perkins School of Theology, Southern
Methodist, in the 1960's. Your note brought back many fond memories.
Wes illustrated the book in water colors as well as wrote the text. I
have a copy in my library. Wes died a few years ago with cancer.
Bob in Chicago
