What this text leaves out is that the tree of life was also in the garden and they were not forbiden to eat of it. God really wanted them to choose life. Instead they chose death. Thay could have eaten from the tree of life at any time but they paid no attention to either tree untill Satan called Eve's attention to it.
Harold in Alabama
Harold in Alabama--
You might look at Stephen Mitchell's poem "In the Garden", which has a disturbingly different perspective on that choice.
--Stephen in Exeter UK
Stephen in Exeter
Read the poem It is a cute poem but not Biblical because the very reason they are expelled from the garden is to keem then from eating the fruit of the Tree of Life and becoming like God.Gen 3:22; also Gen.2:8,9
Harold in Alabama
Being a big country music fan, I'm looking to build a sermon around the temptation theme, and using country music titles/hook lines to guide my discussion of temptation. Two titles that come to my mind immediately are two older songs, "Heaven's Just a Sin Away," and "Lead Me Not into Temptation, I Can Find it All By Myself." A more serious, but still syrupy, country song is the one being sung by an alcoholic asking, "Can You Please Just Turn the Wine Back Into Water?"
Anybody else dare admit to their country roots and help me out here?
-Dale in Chattanooga
I have a few Ideas about this text, let me test them on you.
1. She rationalized it - 3:6 Good for food. Excuses.
2. Start liking it. - a delight to the eyes. Have you ever gotten a sum of money that was supposed to be used for something else, only you held onto it for a while. It began to "grow" on you. Started touching it with her thought life. That's how all out sin begins, as a simple thought.
3. was to be desired to make one wise. Another rationalization. not only is this good for me physically, but it will make me smart, and I can depend on myself and not have to "bother" God with my petty Ideas.
4. She Took it. She sinned.
5. gave it to her husband. She spread it around. Spread the guilt. I don't want to take this blame all for myself, lets stread the wealth.
Where was Adam in all of this? He was standing right there watching the whole pitiful thing. He had no reason to think that his wife, the woman that God gave to Him, would trick or deceive him. So he took it and sinned too.
where was God in all of this? He was standing roght there watching the whole sorry mess. But He had to know this was going to happen or at least there was the potential of it happening. He created us with the ability to make choices, the ability to create. God poured Himself into us. He gave us a brain so that we would have a portion of creative power like Him. We were created in His image. We were created with an imagination.
v.7. Fig leaves. - God doesn't leave us without an answer. When the Bible talks about the fig tree, it is talking about Israel. Jesus' disciples asked him several times about the end of the world. Jesus said
Luke 21:29 "Look at the fig tree and all the trees; 30 as soon as they sprout leaves you can see for yourselves and know that summer is already near. 31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near."
I believe that even here in the beginning of Genesis, God is opening up to us what his answer was to be. I believe that God was showing us that He was going to use Israel as a covering for our shame.
T in CSRA
Dale,
How about "Love Thy Neighbor as thy self, but leave his wife alone" or "Your cheating heart" or "Mansion over the hill top"
Harold in Alabama
The Naked Truth
Adam and Eve were naked in the garden, it was natural, pleasurable, and acceptable, until sin entered the picture. Satan tempts us with good things and makes them dirty. The "Father of Lies" feeds us plausible explanations but hooks us with false expectations.
Adam and Eve did not learn the difference between good and evil. They did not become like God. They discovered what God created good to be shameful. What they expected is not what they got. The serpent deceived them with lies.
Our choices are not often between Good and Evil but God's way (obedience) and the easy way (sin). We often believe we can do things our way, when as Christians we are called to do things God's way. God does not always make sense, but God knows best.
Jonesey in WI
I always need to point out that if it wasn't for Eve, the whole salvation history would still be waiting for a beginning. If we had stayed in the garden we would love God with all that we are because we didn't have a choice. The serpent is God's creature and therefore, God understood totally what would happen. In fact, perhaps that's why God need to created Eve because Adam was farting around in the Garden not getting on with the business of being a human. Our eating of the fruit brings us into the struggle of what will we choose ... God or lesser gods. This is the gift and wound of our humanity. And our God is with us, loving us, challenging us, driving us, so that we might choose Life. ACE in Vancouver, Canada
Dale in Chattanooga: For some reason, and I don't know if this will be relevant to your theme, the song "Whisky, If You Were a Woman" by Highway 101 has been going through my head. I'm not a big country fan, but that's one song that I really like. The idea of a woman who sees the good in her husband being destroyed by alcohol, and being able to direct her anger at the sin, rather than the sinner, is very powerful.
Pastor Andy in Ionia NY
Anybody ever read the play "The Creation of the World and Other Matters" by Arthur Miller? Towards the beginning, perhaps the opening scene, God and Lucifer have a conversation about the problem of Adam and Eve enjoying life and the garden, but not reproducing. Lucifer suggests that the problem is that everything is equally good to Adam and Eve, and the only way to get them to reproduce is to make them understand sex as being BETTER. The only way to do this is to give them the forbidden fruit, which God patently refuses to do. Lucifer rationalizes that in commanding him not to do so, God is incorporating some kind of reverse psychology, and takes it upon himself to enact his rememdy to the situation.
That's a real quick summary, and I have not done the scene justice, but maybe it will stir the pot a bit.
Pastor Andy, Ionia NY
The Old Testament and Gospel lessons both deal with the theme of limitations. Adam and Eve rebell against the inherent limitations of the human condition, and in doing so the garden becomes a wilderness. Jesus refuses the temptation of the devil to reject the limitations inherent in the human condition, and in doing so, at the end of the passage, the wilderness seems to be transformed into a garden (angels show up and the devil disappears.)
There is something within us that yet wants to be like Gods, that wants to be exceptional, to rise above the frailties of life: we want to find that which will take away loneliness, death, vulnurability, and the inherent mediocrity of our existence. It is not possible, and our attempts to do so have destructive consequences. Jesus, in contrast, shows that it is possible to move through the longing to a place of acceptance that is full of grace.
Any thoughts.
Jeff
The first sin was not the consumption of the fruit. It was Eve adding to God's command that she was not to touch it. Here Eve is usurping power and authority from God. She is speaking for God, perhaps to gain respect or authority over the serpent. The eating of the fruit was the second step in this attempt to be God-like. The first was presumption of God's authority.
ApolloGuy Tx
Genesis 2:16-17 And the Lord commanded the man, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day you eat of it you shall die."
Genesis 2:16,17 And the Lord God commanded the man, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."
Please show me where it says that God ever told the woman in the Bible that God also told the woman.
I know that the woman supposedly gave the apple to the man, but I have never found where God told the woman about it. The way I read it God told the man before woman was even created.
Do not want to start an argument, but I would like to know from somebody who might be a better Bible expert than I where it says that.
I know what it says that the serpent came to the woman, and that God said woman would pay the price for eating the apple, and giving it to the man, but I have never read that God spoke to the woman before that. Also since the man was the one God spoke to, why did he say nothing to the woman.
MR in NY
When I think of this text I think of the new ATT Cell Phone comercial that promises CONNECTION and FREEDOM. It seems that time hasn't changed too much from those first days in the garden, for isn't that what Adam and Eve wanted too. They wanted their connection to God, and they wanted their freedom too.
I think it is funny that the results are also the same, as anyone who has a cell phone is anything but free. Now if people want to get a hold of you they can whenever they want. Owning a cell phone takes away your freedom for now you it is expected that if someone wants to get a hold of you for whatever reason they should be able to, no questions asked.
Early ramblings - at least early for me
JP in CO
MR in NY
If you want to start an argument I'll help you.
Read 1 Timothy 2:14 Eave was deceived but Adan did it willingly The Bible does not say that by one woman sin came into the world but by one man. Eve knew she wasn't supposed to eat of the fruit because Adam told her and she told the serpent what was told her. Adam was supposed to look after his wife and yet he stood right there and let her be deceived. Being deceived is one thing sinning on purpose (willingly) is another. It was Adams sin not eves. You are correct. Hope this helps you
Harold in Alabama
To Dale, I got an inspiration after reading your stuff... I am going to use the genesis passage and the samaritan woman story... Eve a good girl gone bad and Samaritan woman a bad girl gone good... (country song in that statement...Tammy Wynette's Your good girls gonna go bad or Honky Tonk angel by Kitty Wells haha) This reflects on last weeks message I used, Mountain Top experience-God Giving you one, like Moses, and the three...how it is awesome... However, remeber Satan was an angel of light- he tries to copy Jesus-God...what happens when Devil gives you a mountain top experience? When we survey a panoramic veiw- devil says we can have it all... and Devil says go ahead JUMP! I'll catch you!!! LOL, ROTFL Devil is NOT a good daddy who play with kids and throws them in the air and catches them...oops...I missed...then he slyly laughs.... anyway that's how I am going... Ladypreacher in OHIO...
I am looking for an internet site where I can find midrash stories... I would like to know what Judaism has to say about the story of Adam and Eve's temptation. Can anyone point me in the right direction? RevDinBG
Sorry, but I can't actually take this to be an actual rendition of what happened in the beginning of time. Maybe I'm just a bit too liberal. Apart from anything else like logic, or the loopholes in the account, I feel that it gives misogynists a lot of good material to get worked up over, and I don't believe that God is a misogynist. I believe this story to be aetiological. It is an explanation of this whole life and death thing we go through. Something that interests me, is where is the connection made between the serpent and satan? satan is not actually named. Perhaps it is later interpretation that makes this connection? For me temptation and free choice are the issues, not so much who is guilty. A choice of life or death. some interpreters obvioulsy feel that Adam is almost an innocent bystander in this passage, and it is all Eve's fault. Both of them made the choice, and as another contributor pointed out, the order not to eat was put to the man, not the woman. Perhaps if he was a real patriarchal type he would have kept her in the kitchen bare foot and pregnant (Sorry, I forgot, they didn't know about sex then, did they) and there wouldn't have been a problem. He should have kept her in line, perhaps? Like some moslems do?
What does it say about men, then, that we are weak passive people who can't handle a bit of temptation, who are easily led, who cannot make a decision on our own? Or perhaps that we will eat anything given to us? The way ot a man's heart is thorugh his stomach, I've heard often. Different perspectives are needed to examine this text, not just a literalist fundamentalist interpretation. Feminist, different cultures, etc.
An australian aboriginal woman once told a joke that went "If adam and eve had been aboriginal they would have eaten the snake and we wouldn't have had a problem.
Another thought - perhaps with the sewing together of fig leaves, Adam and Eve could be the patron saints of tailors??????
Kenneth in Adelaide.
RevDinBG
I can't recommend a website but I can recommend a book. The Story of Judasim By: Bernard J. Bamberger
Published By: Shocken Books New York. I studied it in College under a very brilliant Rabbi. Any book store can order it for you. It is certainly worth the reading.
A literal recounting of events? Probably not. So what? Will this change whether or not I take it seriously? No way! It is a powerfully instructive story that seeks to explain what went wrong. Why do we sin? What can we do to gain control of ourselves?
RevDinBG
Look at Does God Have a Big Toe? by Marc Gellman Midrash on the story. inflightinTN
As I read this, what I see is not so much literal history, or even an explanation of how things got to be the way they are (the aetiological explanation), but rather, an acurate description of current human depravity: "Even if there was just one rule, human beings would break it!" This is the jumping off point for the fact that human beings are susceptible to temptation, and only God's grace can save them. Jesus shows up in a time when there are at least 613 rules, and he not only fulfills the Torah, but surpasses it.
Bruce on Pender Island
apple? says who? read the story as it's written!
R in Ontario
Rev DinBG
Can't recommend a website. However, for a very interesting look at the creation story from Christian, Jewish and Islamic perspectives, that includes midrash stories try a book called "Eve & Adam" by Kris Kvam, et.al.
StudentPastor in KS
I tend to think this story is explaining life and death. I also believe that it is trying to discredit the serpent which was the symbol of life in goddess worship...that is why the serpent is speaking to the woman. By the way "Adam" is not yet Adam and "Eve" is not yet Eve...they are known as the man and the woman.
Interesting reflections...thank you.
Lenten blessings,
ruraloracle in MB
I tend to think this story is explaining life and death. I also believe that it is trying to discredit the serpent which was the symbol of life in goddess worship...that is why the serpent is speaking to the woman. By the way "Adam" is not yet Adam and "Eve" is not yet Eve...they are known as the man and the woman.
Interesting reflections...thank you.
Lenten blessings,
ruraloracle in MB
Ace in Vancouver, You said,"Adam was farting around in the Garden not getting on with the business of being a human." He was not farting around til after the fall. Before that he was perfect. Maybe the forbidden fruit was beans!
For those of you who want to bash Eve, remember she at least gave the snake an argument. Adam just did what his wife told him to. -- Mike in Maryland
Another country song title to add to the mix (and this one is a REALLY interesting thought)--don't know who sings it but the main line (title?) says, "She's all I see between the devil and me."
TK in OK
Harold in Ala, thanks for the timothy reference,I realy was not looking for argument, but that will help in my sermon about temptation, and how we are tempted to place blame on others. I too often hear how sin entered the world through a woman and was just wondering if I missed anything, lots of good stuff this week folks. MR in NY
Harold in Ala, thanks for the timothy reference,I realy was not looking for argument, but that will help in my sermon about temptation, and how we are tempted to place blame on others. I too often hear how sin entered the world through a woman and was just wondering if I missed anything, lots of good stuff this week folks. MR in NY
Thank you, inflightin Tn... I have Does God Have a Big Toe... this story is not in there. I appreciate your response, however. RevDinBG
I toss this in for thought: The fig leaves the man and woman sewed together out of their shame are humanity's first attempt to hide mortality behind technology.
Pastor John in CT
Limitations, yes. Because Jesus in the gospel text (and as attestest in the hymn in Phil. 2) seems to be reversing the Garden temptation, my favored interpretation of this story has to do with the human thirst for the attainable, esp. power and status. Yet something in my gut still tells me this story has something to do with enlightenment. I know that were dealing with mythology that is larger than the Bible, here.
I'm also still puzzled with the Tree of Life (vv.8,9) and its relationship to the Trree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
It is the only one of the two that survives into the Book of Revelation. The early church (quickly, I think)identified not only the cross but Jesus himself with the Tree of Life.
Anybody else explored these trees?
pHil
Paleeese.... don't make this into an "Eve dunnit" fairytale. The Hebrews, a very unscientific people, are explaining our separation from God. 'Don't think of monkeys'... we think of monkeys. The fantasy is always sweeter than the reality. Guys, try to extricate yourselves from the age-old male/female debate. This is the human condition. Blow some fresh air on your congregation. Revpam
Well said, mike in maryland, and also to you, rev pam. Keep the faith. Now, about the others.
So what if it doesn't say adam or eve, or apple, or satan for that matter. It is an explanation of the human condition, as stated by others. Yes, it is a very powerful story, but one that has been misused entirely, and it seems most often by those who ascribe to it a historical meaning. Thankyou all for your imput. R. in ontario - which version? I hazard a guess yours is the KJV. If it isn't a literal truth, does it matter if it was an apple or a pineapple? And is that the best critique you can come with? A horticultural hermeneutic critique of my ? Surely there must be more there that you can engage with. Is it meant to be taken literally? I am genuinely interested in these discussions.
Kenneth in Adelaide.
