Here in Canada we shall be celebrating "Remembering Sunday" (held to
celebrate Remembrance Day on November 11th, declaring the end of WWI
by remembering all those who have died in all the great wars and
often used to promote world peace)
There is a song that has been sung here in Canada entitled "Where
have all the flowers gone?" which asks where have all the young men
gone? They of course have gone to fight in the war, and the song
explains how those at home feel left alone with the knowledge of how
many have lost their lives.
I couldn't help but think how this Scripture might serve as a
wonderful contrast between the men who have "disappeared" in a
twinkling of an eye through world wars and the "disappearing"
anticipated with the rapture that is to occur with the second
coming.
Any thoughts or further suggestions?
Pastor Dave in BC Canada
Where have all the flowers gone, was sung here in the U.S. during
the turbulent Vietnam era. I like the comparison, though I'm
wondering if on this All Saint's Day, as we approach the Y2K
hysteria, maybe this could be broadened to all those who disappear
from our lives in a twinkling of an eye.
The hope and celebration being grounded in the faith that the dead
in Christ shall rise.
early thoughts at a late hour.
KelWA
Any comments on whether this passage supports the idea of the
*Rapture*?
This passage is wonderful news to the Thessalonians worrying about
the eternal state of their brs. and srs. who have died. Since they
were expecting the soon return of Jesus, they began to worry about
those who died before He returned. What wonderful reassurance that
God had it all covered.
John near Pitts.
I read this passage as a comforting word to a struggling church. All
new churches dealt with struggles from without and within, and this
is a church seeking doctrinal identity. They want to know the
answers to the tough questions of life, like "where do I go when I
die?" and "Will Grandpa be in heaven?"
I also have difficulty seeing this as a discourse on the Apocalypse,
or Rapture, or other end-time events because it is preceded by
commands to live a holy life, and followed by commands to be ready
at all times, loving one another (in essence, leading a holy life).
I think the message is this: no matter when Jesus returns, or how,
if we are prepared, we will be OK.
This is my first submission, but I have greatly enjoyed reading
contributions from all sources! Preach the Word until He comes!
UMPreach
*The dead in Christ* Good place to address All Saints Sunday. What
does it mean to be *dead in Christ*? I've often thought of the
question, what does it mean to be alive in Christ? This might be an
interesting twist. How will you die? In whom will you die? Hmm, I'd
rather be dead in Christ than alive in Satan. (But if it was up to
me, I think I'd rather be one of those yet alive being caught up in
the clouds. This might be one time that I wouldn't mind being last
:-)
John near Pitts.
Hello All, Just some initial thoughts: This is an apocalyptic
letter, most of the New Testament was. That is not saying that it is
filled with weird beasts or heavily veiled symbols; however, it does
mean that it is saying there will be an end, a judgement, a
cataclysmic event, etc. Just because it does not go into detail
about those things, does not remove it from the genre. Here is what
I appreciate about what UMPreach said: it is a discourse on holy
life, how to live with others, being ready. Much of Revelation is
taking that battle of good versus evil in our life from the personal
to the cosmic level. How to live a holy life in this letter can only
be understood today in the cosmic significance it was held then.
Being unready was tantamount to participating in Satan's kingdom,
not God's. Follow UMPreach's advice. This letter is not a letter
that supports or denies rapture. It just doesn't address the idea.
Yes, it says there will be a resurrection but what form exactly that
resurrection will take is vague at best. Which is as it should be.
Also: addressing what it means to be dead in Christ could be used as
a double edged sword! I had not thought about it before! Good point!
You could call the sermon, "Church of the Living Dead" if you take
one track or if you take the other, more positive track, you could
title it, "Undead Faith."
Just some initial thoughts and responses. God bless. Kurt in IN
Reading the posts (esp. Kurt in IN--"Church of the Living Dead")
made me think of something J. Pelikan wrote in his book,
*Vindication of Tradition* that went something like this: "Tradition
is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of
the living."
The "Church of the living dead" could then be seen as a positive
continuation of the faith handed down through tradition (not
traditionalism--a subtle difference but an important one).
ml in pa
This text is the "Rapture" text. The term comes from the Latin
translation of 4:17 referring to being "caught up". However, I think
the point of the text is to comfort people who have lost loved ones
and who think those loved ones are going to miss out on something.
Offering the hope that gone does not mean forgotten is probably
going to be more helpful than a great deal of speculation concerning
the various theories related to the "Rapture," esp. on All Saints
Sunday. NGA in Iowa.
