The Corinthian congregation experienced division as various factions each claimed to have superior spiritual gifts. Paul invites this fractured community to discover a deeper unity from the Spirit who binds us together.
Centuries later, Paul echoes the words first spoken by the prophet and the psalmist: God brings abundance into our midst. For a church as diverse as the one in Corinth, these words about God's renewal served as both a corrective and a mission. Paul reminds the Corinthians that although each one of them is different, they are united by one Spirit.
I have a man who has been worshipping in my congregation and claims to speak in tongues as a private prayer language. Anybody ever hear of such a thing? And in light of I Cor. 13, are things like speaking in tongues one of the childish things that have been or should be put away.
This same guy has brought up some rule that when a word is first mentioned in the Bible it continues to have that meaning. Has anyone heard of this? It sounds stupid to me?
PH in OH
Well, PH in OH, I'd have to agree with your assessment of his "rule". Totally illogical -- has the fellow never changed the use of his own words to reflect different contexts? I would think that even a biblical literalist (which I am not) would allow that God could use one word to mean various things....
Blech.
~Squeeze
Should i go here, hmm two controversial sermons in two weeks! Can my little UMC churches take it CB in Wes OHIO
and Sally in GA if you check here West Ohio's Bishop OUGH is (O) (OH)
I agree with you on thr rule thing. But, "prayer language" is real. As for falling in the spirit too.
(Now Benny Hinn and Rod parsley knocking people in the head may be fake) But when it's authentic it's beautiful. I have heard the prayer language or the mumblings... I have never heard tongues- because interpretation has to be there! It's edifying! not negative. I think with most UMC's who seem to be receptive to the actions like this scripture says, prayer language is what they get...I think, we are a little nervous to talk tounges...
But, there is a UMC Church in West Ohio Conference that preactices the charisma- Rev. Scott Kelso's church in Columbus North District...I think it's Columbus North, may by South. Maybe they have a website, go to www.gbgm.org and go to locator...
CB in West OHIO
The 18th is our stewardship Sunday and I'm desperately looking for some help in using this Scripture! My sermon title is "The Gift of Giving." Any help is greatly appreciated.
The first post, unsigned, gave me a new slant for looking at this passage, by relating it to the 'abundance' in the psalm and Isaiah texts.
So often I have read it like, God gives one this but not that, another that but not something else, and so on. I should be reading it, God gives the church this, and that, and the other thing; and some more, and also those things... and so much MORE! Everything we need to be the powerful people of God, we have been given. So, what's holding us back from overtaking the world?! Thanks, first poster. tom in TN(USA)
Dear PH in OH,
As a prison volunteer for 8 years and a state funded chaplain for 6 I got to run into many who elevated tongues above all else. Some went so far as to say that baptism by water meant very little. Baptism by the HS as evidenced by the speaking of tongues was the only true sign of Christian conversion. But I think that is the extreme even with many who do speak in tongues.
As I understand it, there are three types of tongues. First are in the book of acts where the disciples speak in the languanges of other peoples. Second is the prayer tongues of which you speak which are used in private prayer. The third was tongues of prophecy used in worship and/or fellowship which Paul put very strict limits on.
The biblical interpretation rule is a new one on me. "Beats all I ever heard" as we say here in the south.
Grace and peace,
Mike in Sunshine
I don't want to necessarily seem rash, but I'll launch into this discussion with this. It matters not which gift, it matters that the body is edified, moved on into worship. The worship is the point, not the gift. In Acts, the gift (from God/HS) caused that many more could hear of that deep need for worship and fellowship than would have, had only the language of the land been used.
It's all about Him. When we make it about anything else, we make and take "...other gods before..." Him. LKINHC
PH in OH
It seems that several have answered both your questions. I would agree, mostly, with the answers you have recieved. I share my experience with "Praying in tongues" solely as to offer you some kind of reference point.
I served a So. Baptist Church in NC several years ago. In that congregation were 3-5 people who professed the gifts of tongues. They told me, repeatedly, that they used their gifts in private prayer time or when just that group was together. They constantly offered to pray for me and my ministry among them. Their offers were totally genuine and supportive; and I readily accepted their gift. We had an understanding about this gift, too. We (They and I) believed that they were so gifted for their private prayer time. The use of that gift in the church where we were would NOT have been "edifying." We beleived that should any of the group pray publicly (offer corporate prayer) during a service, they would refrain from tongues because it would "disturb" scare, or offend some in the church. They knew that I did not believe that tongue speaking was a sign that one was more spiritually gifted over another, nor that God's "annointing" was only on those who spoke in tongues. I supported their prayer time by offering concerns I needed prayer for. I encouraged them. They encouraged me. At times, I survived some of my more difficult days in that church because of their prayers. At times, I could simply look at one of them and they knew to begin praying.
I would encourage you to be open to this possibility within this man. Research your theological training with regards to speaking in tongues. Also, have a frank conversation with the man concerning the use of tongue speaking in the worship of God within the context of your congregation.
The word rule is bogus!
Steve in NC
(This may be a resubmission but I do not see what I tried to post previously.) It seems to me that most of the dicussion of this text has centered on tongues. What of the 7th verse, "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good?" It seems to me that the primary intent of this passage is not just to call the Corinthians to task for their elevation of tongues and "wisdom," etc., but that all gifts are to contribute to the whole body. This, and whether or not the gifts proclaim "Jesus is Lord" are the true tests. I would like to craft my thoughts centered on the idea that in the blessing of the diversity of gifts of God there is blessing and strength. Thoughts, comments, illustrations, ideas?
Thanks,
Tom in MN
Tom in MN (and LKINHC),
I think your thoughts are right on target, for what it's worth. My remembering back to seminary and other reading is that there were those in Corinth who were saying if you DIDN'T speak in tongues, you were not a true Christian ... but that's only a vague memory, not one to rely on.
I remember quite clearly though that this passage is to encourage and validate the gifts we have been given by the Spirit and that, without the whole rift of them together, we would not be as strong a Body of Christ. Just because some of us preach, we are not better (or less) than one whose gift is of prophecy or teaching or administration. We each have different gifts, but it is the same Spirit who gives them.
This is the passage and these are the words used in our PC(USA) liturgy for Ordination and Installation of elders, deacons, or ministers of Word and Sacrament. Powerful words indeed.
mm in pa
A quick comment about gifts.
There is no greatness confered in the gift(s) one is given, since the gifts are "grace" gifts. The greatness is forever found in the giver.
JG in WI
What's all the fuss about tongues? Most, if not all, of us have experienced a time in prayer when we did not have an adequate vocaubulary to express our thoughts and emotions, and yet "the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express." Romans 8:26
The Advent Spider
Reguarding stewardship Sunday, you have been blessed to have this scripture come up! I tried to find something other than the obvious when I studied this scripture this time. God does not want us to be uninformed. The reference to idols who do not speak is interesting. Expensive cars, the fanciest of clothes, etc. are all idols that do not speak.
But the biggest lesson that I got from this is that it is not OK to be unplugged. Some people plug into TV, some kids plug into video games, people plug into laziness (I'm talking about excess here). When they do these things they unplug from the rest of God's kingdom. God, as can be seen through His grace, is all about loving relationships with people. We need to reflect this love and involvement (by using our God given talents including time and money). Several parables ring a bell here. The investment of the coins, the lamp that shines, etc., etc.
JG in WI,
"The greatness is forever found in the giver."
Amen and amen!
I too would concur with most of the responses to PH in OH.regarding tongues. It is a beautiful thing when used appropriately, and a horrible thing when abused. The passage I think is focusing on unity in the church, and that when we all realize and acknowledge that it is the Spirit that gives the gifts, not something we have achieved on our own, there is nothing to get haughty or conceited about. The gifts are to be used to glorify God and build up the congregation, "for the common good." As with anything else, there is always the possibility of taking something that was meant for good, and abusing it and using it for our own gain, sense of power, prestige, etc. Tongues has been the one thing that has brought more division than almost anything else in the church, because of an inaccurate interpretation of the gifts, and it is what brings fear to most pastors. The unfortunate thing is it also causes most of us to shun even talking about Spiritual gifts or the Holy Spirit, and thus, the majority of our church members have no idea what Spiritual gifts they have.
The word rule is bogus.I would be very curious to know what scripture he bases that one, and then do a study on that passage to show him.
Susan in Wa.
PH in OH,
Concerning a “rule that when a word is first mentioned in the Bible it continues to have that meaning,” there is some possibility that he has misunderstood an approach to scripture that is foreign to many of us. It is my understanding that in some styles of interpreting the Midrash, some Hebrew scholars would carry the same definition forward in the text. This is largely outside my area of expertise, but could be a way of trying to understand the gentleman’s point of view. (Of course he could be completely off base.)
May God bless your work with the diverse folk and diverse gifts in your congregation.
Leon in NC<><
I'm taking a tack with this passage that I think would tie in nicely with a stewardship theme. I'm using the title story from a new book by Lawrence Wood, "One Hundred Tons of Ice: and Other Gospel Stories".
He starts off by talking about what an annoyance ice is in Northern Michigan where he lives. Then he tells of an entrepreneur from Boston, Frederic Tudor who pioneered ice packing and shipping and became know as the "Ice King". He started shipping ice to the tropics. Then, in 1833, he packed-up 180 tons of ice and sent it on a 3 month voyage to Calcutta, India. As he anticipated, about 100 tons of ice arrived, safely packed in straw.
This was a big deal in Calcutta. The ice was not only a luxury, it kept food fresh for weeks and helped doctors in the treatment of fevers. "It was incredible--that something so worthless in New England might be so valuable in Calcutta."
Latter he says:
"You know people get rich not by finding gold or diamonds, but by figuring out what to do with a hundred tons of ice. People dicover their real worth by giving that to Christ and seeing the wonders it can do."
Wood goes on to point out how Jesus made use of his otherwise rag-tag ordinary group of disciples, and how God can use us. Each of us have something that seems cheap, worthless, or irrelevant, but God can put it to special use: what's a little bit of money to us buys a lot of food in Haiti, the kids that are laying around bored at home would be a great blessing to an aging church, maybe just your cheerfullness or your doubts are what the church needs, or the story of your recovery from a tragedy is something that someone else in pain needs to hear.
After reminding us that Christ told us that we are the light of the world (yes, us) he writes, "The sun's rays are strong, but way down deep in the hold of your ship, underneath all the sawdust, you are carrying a precious commodity, and when it is brought above deck it will glitter and shine and throw back the light of the sun. For Christ's sake, carry it to its destination." This is really a great book and I plan to use many of it's stories in my sermons this year.
We plan to use the song "True Colors" in our contemporary service. "I see your true colors and that's why I love you." We thought we could also tie this into Martin Luther King Day. Hopefully people won't just think of the film commercial.
Dave in Iowa
I'm looking for Swindoll's book in hopes of getting my hands on the story "A RAbbit on the Swim Team" None of my local stores seem to have this book. Does anyone out there have this story or know of another source in which I might have better luck finding it? If so, I welcome your response at singshine@yahoo.com
Rev. She
Hi
I had been hoping to find a few suggestions for uniting this text with Martin Luther King/Human Relations Sunday...
But, since nothing's here - let me try .... I have a quotation from Rev. Isaac Musaka, staff with the Ethnic Ministries Council, United Church of Canada. He says "Ethnic minorities hear in 1 Corinthians 12 an affirmation of the gifts they bring to community because it affirms a distinction between integration and assimilation which ethnic minorities have consistently lifted up...
ASSIMILATION assumes everyone will conform to the dominant set of values and way of life. Difference - especially of minority groupings - is looked upon as a deviation from what otherwise is an orderly state of affairs.
INTEGRATION not only assumes the coming together of different parties to form a new identity, but understands difference is the dynamic of growth and self-discovery.
This is behind Paul's argument in 1 Corinthians 12. The body functions and grows because of its different parts. If the entire body was one part, it would not function as it should. Those gifts, arising out of their different experiences are, according to Paul, essential for hte fulfillment of community."
I'm thinking of using a crazy quilt to illustrate this point and celebrate our unity within diversity...
the IowaStarr
My most heartfelt thanks for all stewardship-themed comments, both past and future!
Sybil
Rev. She,
Never heard of Swindoll's book with that story in it, but the title is sure intriguing.
And thank you Dave in Iowa for the suggestion of the Wood book. Also sounds like a nice one to have for interesting illustrations.
mm in pa
I received a newsletter from another church a couple of days ago. This little story fits this passage well, I believe. I had seen it before, but feel it is pretty clever.
This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. There was an important job to do and Everybody was asked to do it. Everybody was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody would have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody would do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
There you have it!
Susan in Wa.
