Interesting, not a prophet, but only the one to make way for the
promised one.
Are we as pastor's and as churches to be the one's who prepare the
way,so that all will come to know the Promised one? Say when reading
this I am wondering about verse 1:25 They asked him, "Why then are
you baptizing if you are neither the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the
prophet?". Maybe I dozed off in seminary, was the Jewish ritual for
cleansing with water considered "baptism"? Language scholars is
there any light you can shed on this? Nancy-Wi
Nancy-Wi,
You asked .... was the Jewish ritual for cleansing with water
considered "baptism"?
If I remember correctly the greek is "baptismo" and it simply means
to wash ... thus to make clean. Originally, it had no religious
meaning at all. It was a daily practice among some.
tom in ga
1) Beginning at 1:20 we have something that sounds like, or parallel
to the Confession of Peter ... John being questioned about his
identity. "Who do people say that I am?" "Who do you say that I am?"
However the last question is not asked, except in a judging way:
"Who are you?" And again John empties himself.
It is interesting (probably without much homiletic importance) that
we find at 1:26 the statement "Among you stands one whom you do not
know ..." It appears that he is referring to the Messiah, but the
"not-knowing" is also his own situation.
Does John recognize the Christ before Jesus tells him to fulfill all
righteousness at his Baptism?
2) 1.8 "not the light ... came to testify to the light"
Here is the gospel it seems to me. The one who testifies is one who
know or experiences his own darkness enlightened, his sins forgive,
his despair turned to joy. It is a recognition that life is not to
be found in oneself but in relationship to the Other who sheds his
light, his love, his joy on those who live in darkness.
tom in ga
I find it intriguing that John the Baptist, in this text, is the "I
am Not" - the "egw ouk eimi" - who is preparing the way for the
great "I am" - "Egw eimi" who is to come. In a way, I look at this
gospel and see an invitation to the one who is coming. It is so
concerned with the basics of an invitation: Who? - the questions to
John about who is he and his replies of who he is not; What? -
questions of 'what are you doing?' and his reply of 'preparing the
way'; Why? - in order to point to the real Messiah; and Where? - I
haven't a clue as to why Bethany is so importantly featured here,
since it is nowhere close to the Jordan river...it's closer to
Jerusalem! Ponderin' Pastor in IL
Tom-Ga: Still pondering the baptism thing. Why would the priests
question John about baptizing if it were an ordinary thing? Did a
priest supervise the bath? Nancy-Wi
The ritual cleansing bath for women after menses is sometimes
called, "woman's baptism." It is a bath of total immersion in water
the either flowed into the vessal from a spring or stream or
rainwater collected from a roof. The water could not be transported
in buckets. The flowing waters of the river may well have
constituted Mikveh water.
If this is what John was calling people to their is an irony in that
he was calling all - men and women to the bath. The link below will
take you to one site that might be helpful. Deke in TX - Pace e Bene
I found this on a lectionary site about baptism and the question ask
by the priests. It is an authority issue. The way that the Pharisees
phrase their question makes it seem as if they expect the Messiah,
Elijah, or the prophet to baptize. The real thrust behind their
question, however, is to ask what authority John has for baptizing
Jews, a practice usually reserved for Gentiles converting to
Judaism. "John's reply indicates that his baptism is a preparation
for the appearance of the hidden Messiah, who already stands in
Israel's midst and is about to fulfill his Messianic task"
(Beasley-Murray, 24). Nancy-Wi
My early thoughts on my sermon this week is to talk about how
certainly John understood who he was and what he was called to do
(and what he was NOT called to do). I'm planning on paring this
"know who you are" with the Isaiah passage about being annointed. In
Lutheran and Episcopal churches, you are annointed/sealed with oil
at baptism: "marked as Christ's own forever." I'll call us to claim
our annointing as God's children, and then encourage us to learn
more about our selves and our own callings so that we may be as
clear as John was about what we are to do, and what we are not to
do.
Momma Helen
In reply to “Ponderin' Pastor in IL”
I am a new preacher and a current Seminary student, so it is
possible that I don’t know what I am talking about, but concerning
your comments about the location of Bethany, my Bible professor said
the Bethany in John 1 was a different Bethany than the one near
Jerusalem. The Bethany in John 1 was located at a place now not
known, but believed to be on the east of the Jordan and near the
river in the wilderness. I have copied below a related reference
from “The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia” which seems to
support this view. I hope this helps.
“ BETHANY:... (2) "Bethany beyond the Jordan" (John 1:28; the King
James Version Bethabara; Bethabara, a reading against the majority
of the manuscripts, supported by Origen on geographical grounds):
Bethabara, a reading against the majority of the manuscripts,
supported by Origen on geographical grounds): No such place is
known. Grove suggested that the place intended is \BETH-NIMRAH\
(which see), the modern Tell nimrin, a singularly suitable place,
but hard to fit in with John 1:28; compare John 2:1. The traditional
site is the ford East of Jericho.”
Leon<><in NC
This is our choir "Christmas" presentation week - during the AM
worship. Any suggestions on how to tie it in? and how to keep the
sermon brief?
I'm thinking along the lines of testifying to the light: though not
prophets or messiahs ourselves, we nonetheless can testify. Pabulum,
I know.
Sally in GA
scratch the disclaimer about pabulum! Rather, "this is where I'm
headed, period." What we have to offer is what we have to offer - a
baptism of testimony not based on abilities or how accomplished we
are but based on gifts and our willingness to use them.
Though our choir is not accomplished, I'm loathe to call our music a
"joyful noise" because we sing as a way to honor and testify to the
light. So, despite its rough edges, it is washed in the Spirit of
light.
Likewise, though my thoughts are early, they nonetheless testify to
my experience with the light working in me as the sermon forms.
Sally
To Sallly, The theme I am working around for this 3rd Sunday of
Advent is Witness - in one of my churches the children will be the
"witnesses" as they are presenting their Christmas Program in place
of the message. I am reading in "Practicing Our Faith" edited by
Dorothy Bass regarding testimony and found these words that may be
useful for your tie-in with the choir. "If you would know the real
life and history of anation or people, study the testimony it makes
in its songs. They tell of its thoughts, the bent of the mind of its
people, and the overflowing of its heart. When life runs over, it is
expressed in song. When the heart is too full of sorrow or joy for
speech, it sings. This makes son one of the morst precious forms of
the practice of testimony. (witness can easily replace the word
testimony) Remember Miriam when they crossed the Red Sea? "The
woodsmen sing s of the forest, the soldier of the battlefied, the
farmer of the corn and the vine, the shepherd of the sheep" So then
the Choir sing of the things of faith as a witness and a blessing
for the listeners. jmj in Mt.
Ponderin' Pastor in IL (my old home state!) - here's a little more
on the subject of "Bethany" - gleaned from Donald Carson's
commentary on John, as well as Carson's thoughts on John's approach
to His entire Gospel, and how it fits in with this lesson:
"This was NOT the Bethany which was the home of Mary, Martha and
Lazarus, which was located a short distance east and slightly south
of Jerusalem, on the road to Jericho." Although the exact location
is unknown, Carson makes a strong case for a place called Batanea –
not a town or village but an area in the north-east of the country,
to which Jesus himself withdrew toward the end of his ministry when
opponents in Judea were trying to kill him (10:39-40).
D.A. Carson: “Jesus is identified by the Baptist as the Lamb of God
who takes away the sin of the world (1:29); at the end of His public
ministry, He retreats to the same place, and the witness of the
Baptist is reviewed (10:39-40). Then in the very next chapter, Jesus
performs His last and greatest ‘sign’ before the cross, the raising
of Lazarus – at Bethany near Jerusalem (John 11). The result is the
announcement of the need for Jesus to die as a sacrifice for the
people (11:45-53) – the promised Lamb of God indeed. What begins as
public witness in the North ends in public crucifixion in the South.
Judea, Samaria, Galilee, and now the Transjordan (of which Batanea
was a part), all the regions of the promised land, are mentioned;
for Jesus was not a regional Messiah, a parochial preacher, but the
true Israel. Subtle writer that he is, John’s geographical note in
this verse anticipates and links major themes in his Gospel.”
DD in CA
Another week I'm not preaching.... The bishop is coming (scheduled
for more than a year, just coincidence that he's coming in the midst
of all that is now going on). We're having confirmations, receptions
and reaffirmations: four confirmations, six reaffirmations, one
reception. The bishop will preach.
In any event, I've been thinking about what I would do with these
passages and the first couple of things that occurred to me were:
a. It's interesting that in John's Gospel it is John the Baptizer
who identifies himself with the Isaiah prophecy -- he say's, "I am
the voice in the wilderness."
b. There is a parallel between John's conversation with the people
("Are you Elijah? ... Are you the prophet?") and the reaction of
Herod and the people to Jesus' ministry in Mark 6 ("Some thought him
Elijah, others one of the prophets...") and Jesus' question to the
apostles in Mark 8 ("Who do people say I am? ... Elijah, one of the
prophets") It raises for me the question (and I don't yet have an
answer to suggest) why these Gospellers were so keen to distinguish
John and Jesus from Elijah and the prophets (although, of course,
there is an obvious answer for the latter).
Just some areas I would consider if I were preaching this week.
Blessings, Eric in KS
A few thoughts on this text:
John: "I'm just a signpost, pointing out the more important
attraction." (This despite his awareness of his fulfillment of
Isaiah's prophecy!)
"Among you stands one you don't know..." In light of the increasing
de-emphasis on Christ in Christmas, this text rings so true. Seems
like no one else in this world is pointing out the Messiah these
days. Do we need to sort of pick up that "mantle"?
Random thoughts indeed...
Rabbi in IL
I struggle every year with how to preach on John two weeks in a row,
and then again in January for the Baptism of the Lord, without
saying the same thing every time. However, I really like the idea of
focusing on identity: who are we? Because what we do and how we live
is pretty dependent on who God has created us to be.
some early musings, Heather in Sharon
Forgive me if I am being really thick but I can't get rid of a
perisistant question:
Why (in John) is the Baptist not Elijah but in Matthew he was (I
tell you he did come ....... and they understood that he was talking
about John the Baptist)??
Thanks
Scott Lunn Richmond, N.Yorks.
Thanks, jmj in MT!
I'm not certain I'm going to use the gospel. I'm thinking of a
(perhaps odd) combination of the Isaiah and the Magnificat as a way
to inspire hope from our congregation. By fits and starts, it's
coming along (even though my evangelism reports still have negative
numbers on them).
Sally in GA
Raymond Brown offers two interesting insights into 'Bethany' in his
wonderful commentary for the Anchor Bible Series-
1. Origen identified 'Bethany' as 'Bethabara' or "The place of
crossing over" and so understood a parallel with Jesus to Joshua.
Joshua led the people to the Promised Land and Jesus will cross over
to lead a new people.
2. Others see 'Bethany' as 'bet-anlyyah' or 'house of
witness/testimony.' John is giving testimony of Jesus and Jesus will
give testimony to God.
Either way, some interesting possible sermon points to mull over.
TB in MN
Deja vu all over again. I just did John last week. I think I'm going
to slide a week, do the Annunciation this Sunday and the Christmas
Eve, shepherds and angels reading on the 22nd. So go forward and
help me, please. tom in TN(USA)
Nancy-Wi
Ahhh, I am stumped!! Remember this Gospel was written kind of late.
The walls were up between Jews and Christians, never to really come
down again. Since the Holocaust we have sought to understand one
another, but I think the opening of John's Gospel sets the division,
it was not so much the issue of baptism as it was the expectant
coming of the Messiah ... which the majority of Jews denied.
Of course, I need some enlightenment on this issue as well.
tom in ga
