Date: 6/9/2003
Time: 9:02:31 AM
In describing the new life of faith, Paul refers to all three persons of the Trinity: the Spirit leads us to recognize that we are children of God the Father and sisters and brothers with Christ the Son.
Date: 6/9/2003
Time: 12:00:06 PM
This week, I'm thinking of talking about spirit vs flesh as God's Eyes vs Commercial's Eyes. In God's eyes, we're good enough for what God needs us to do. In commercials eyes, we're never good enough (You need to look better! You need to smell better! You need to drive a better car!). When we get so innundated with comercial's messages to us, we forget that we are good enough for all that God needs for us to do. God will help "fill in the gaps" (see Isaiah), but when God calls us to something, we should be confident that we've got what is necessary to do what needs to be done.
Momma Helen
Date: 6/9/2003
Time: 3:06:35 PM
Being that this is also Father's Day, I think it is a great passage to talk address the fact that many have not had a very good experience with their dads, kind of the difference between being a Father, and being a daddy, There is a big difference. Because of what Jesus Christ has done on the cross, we can have a relationship with our Father that is like "Daddy," a closeness, an intimacy, knowing that our daddy will always be there to look out for our best, to protect and provide, to love and cherish. And yet balance it with the Isaiah passage of Holy, Holy, Holy, that the Lord God Almighty, Holy God is now also for us, Daddy. Pretty awesome.
Susan in Wa.
Date: 6/10/2003
Time: 4:29:23 AM
At the Ginghamsburg church in ohio, they talk about finding their "God - desiny." the idea is, once we find security knowing God has created each person uniqely qualified to be a certain person, doing a unique ministry, pressure is taken off the individual and distributed among the body of Christ.
makes sense to me. Well, I am hoping to preache about this in light of two vital aspects of relating to god: first, we must fear (revere) god, like isaiah. Second, we must have that close intimate relationsip, knwoing we can call god our abba, father (daddy). Let s see wehre it goes on fathers day. Jeff in NY
Date: 6/10/2003
Time: 6:46:49 AM
Verses 12 and 13 portray the spiritual life as a kill or be killed battle against the flesh. What is to prevent us from interpreting this passage as a call to asceticsm?
Verse 17: How do Western suburbanites suffer with Christ?
I don't feel like I am suffering with Christ. Do you? The more I consider this passage's implications, the more I realize how dependent upon grace I am. Maybe, by grace, I can be a child of God without suffering right now.
DSS
Date: 6/10/2003
Time: 11:25:11 AM
Hello, all. I've been absent from discussions for a few weeks celebrating my graduation from seminary and commissioning as a probationary elder. No longer StudentPastor in Kansas!
I'm currently trying to work on sermons whenever I can find a moment(and a place among the packing boxes!) of peace. I'm planning to use the epistle as my primary text this Sunday, working from the point of God's adoption of ME (and all other believers, as well!) -- that we belong to God and God belongs to us because God cares enough about us to claim us (God's own creation) as God's children.
Continuing to think it out...
Robbie --soon of Central KS
Date: 6/10/2003
Time: 7:27:36 PM
May be this will help. At our community Thanksgiving service this year I was explaining the difference between a step child and an adopted child. A step child has no legal standing in the family where as an Adopted child has all the legal rights of a natural child. Thats why Paul could say we are joint airs with Christ. At the close of the service I presented the Bible I had used for the service to a little girl who was not old enough to read yet. Everyone was amazed that I chose her. I found out later that this child had been rescued from an abusive situation and had just been adopted. When I presented the Bible I told her mother that God thinks she is special. I never knew anything about the child until the next day when folks in the community began to tell me about her. They all thought I knew she was adopted. It kind of helped us all to see how God loves His children.
Harold in Alabama
Date: 6/11/2003
Time: 5:58:06 AM
Congratulations, Robbie,
You may often (from now on) find yourself working on sermons in between all the other demands, but God will be with you!
Michelle
Date: 6/11/2003
Time: 9:14:08 AM
I'm pretty sure we're of one mind on "adoption," despite my personal beef with the tendency to elevate the status of adoptive parents over birth parents. The logic goes that since they chose parenthood, they must be better. Bunk!
I've been struck by the phrase "we have received a spirit of adoption." It seems to me that the *spirit* of the adoption with Christ is the boldness to call God "Abba, Daddy." Not out of some sense of either duty or birthright, but out of a sense of profound faith to suffer with Christ. And, as one poster observed, we middle-class Westerners haven't a clue.
Now, to consider "suffering" with Christ. I daresay the tendency of many of our brothers and sisters in Christ to consider ALL of society as either anti-Christian or anti-Freedom is a product of the desire to suffer with Christ. That is to say, we create suffering where there probably isn't any just so we can say we're the persecuted.
Sally in GA
Date: 6/12/2003
Time: 8:28:03 AM
I am struck by the reading in light of the other two for it brings us into the story of salvation. As Isaiah and Nicodemus we also must allow ourselves to be lead by the Spirit of God into freedom (no longer the "fear" of being seen in the case of Nicodemus; or "sinfulness" in the case of Isaiah) for we are God's.
In this freedom, we have access to God in an intimate/childlike way by calling him with deep affection: dada or Abba for God's Spirit dwells within us making us heirs. Suffering is not the mark of being absent from God but is a mark of being with him.
tom in ga
Date: 6/12/2003
Time: 8:24:31 PM
Michelle I echo your sentiments to Robbie! Somewhere I read something about sermons come at pastors as fast as telephone poles do along the road side. I sometime laugh when i remember how hyper I got in seminar doing two in for preaching class. After all I had all that other homework to do too! sorry a little of topic but I am working like a cyclone to finish up stuff to go on vacation and annual conference. Nancy-Wi
Date: 6/12/2003
Time: 11:59:06 PM
The Trinity is a community whose self-giving, self-denying, you-are-my-all-in-all-ness love enables the three participants to be one. In other words, the Trinity exists by virtue of the perfect, sacrificial love of God.
Consequently, when we deny the flesh and suffer with Christ, we become a part of this dance, this community of love.
Okay, ummm, so what now? So far, with the help of Simone Weil and Diogenes Allen, I've developed some good theology from this passage, but I still don't know how this doctrine will play out in my congregation.
The only times I have felt this doctrine at work were in hospice and hospital rooms. I have found that someone who is dying has a deeper understanding of what it is to love in a self-emptying way and to suffer with God.
But these death-bed epiphanies are usually "you had to be there" experiences; I'd much prefer to draw a point of contact to people's lives right here and now.
DSS
Date: 6/13/2003
Time: 12:00:07 AM
The Trinity is a community whose self-giving, self-denying, you-are-my-all-in-all-ness love enables the three participants to be one. In other words, the Trinity exists by virtue of the perfect, sacrificial love of God.
Consequently, when we deny the flesh and suffer with Christ, we become a part of this dance, this community of love.
Okay, ummm, so what now? So far, with the help of Simone Weil and Diogenes Allen, I've developed some good theology from this passage, but I still don't know how this doctrine will play out in my congregation.
The only times I have felt this doctrine at work were in hospice and hospital rooms. I have found that someone who is dying has a deeper understanding of what it is to love in a self-emptying way and to suffer with God.
But these death-bed epiphanies are usually "you had to be there" experiences; I'd much prefer to draw a point of contact to people's lives right here and now.
DSS
Date: 6/13/2003
Time: 8:27:33 AM
A prayer on suffering.
Father, I abandon myself into your hands; do with me what you will. Whatever you may do, I thank you: I am ready for all, I accept all. Let only your will be done in me, and in all your creatures. I wish no more than this, O Lord.
Into your hands I commend my soul; I offer it to you with all the love of my heart, for I love you, Lord, and so need to give myself, to surrender myself into your hands, without reserve, and with boundless confidence, for you are my Father.
Charles de Foucald
Date: 6/13/2003
Time: 12:11:06 PM
Greetings, Children of the Living God!
My son gave me a coffee cup, and on the cup is the word, "Abba", in Hebrew. In English: "The World's Greatest Father". My sermon for Sunday: "Abba, The World's Greatest Father".
In regard to adoption: I have four sisters, each adopted from a different family. When I was young, I thought babies came from lawyers. Why couldn't I have a stork like the other kids? None of the birth parents has sought to find a sister, but two of my sisters have explored the records, asking, "Who is my father? Who is my mother?" This is not to discount our nurturing parents. Rather, it is to understand the quality of inherited DNA. My sisters' suffering [Paul's word] comes from not knowing.
Happy Homiletics! Holy, holy, holy Trinity Sunday! Happy Father's Day!
Oklahoma Irishman
Date: 6/13/2003
Time: 12:12:09 PM
Greetings, Children of the Living God!
My son gave me a coffee cup, and on the cup is the word, "Abba", in Hebrew. In English: "The World's Greatest Father". My sermon for Sunday: "Abba, The World's Greatest Father".
In regard to adoption: I have four sisters, each adopted from a different family. When I was young, I thought babies came from lawyers. Why couldn't I have a stork like the other kids? None of the birth parents has sought to find a sister, but two of my sisters have explored the records, asking, "Who is my father? Who is my mother?" This is not to discount our nurturing parents. Rather, it is to understand the quality of inherited DNA. My sisters' suffering [Paul's word] comes from not knowing.
Happy Homiletics! Holy, holy, holy Trinity Sunday! Happy Father's Day!
Oklahoma Irishman
Date: 6/13/2003
Time: 8:41:39 PM
I'm going to try to talk about how our popular concept of fathers has changed... from "Father Knows Best" to Homer Simpson, who knows nothing. We have demythologized dads. Does anyone know the words to "Daddy" by Jewell? I'm told its a particularly caustic tirade against fathers (and my daughter has left for the summer, so my contemporary sources have dried up...)
In a time like this maybe we need a concept of God as the good father. Sure, not all fathers are godlike. But God is like a good father... who loves, protects, teaches, guides and encourages us. And maybe our men who do try to reflect these qualities could use a little encouragment and gratefulness for their efforts.
DGinNYC
Date: 6/14/2003
Time: 9:42:37 AM
Title: Daddy Album: Pieces Of You
my bones are tired, daddy I don?t get enough sleep I don?t eat as good as I could, daddy what?s that say about me? sometimes I sleep past noon, daddy drink lost of black coffee and I smoke like a chimney yes, I left the refrigerator door half open, daddy what?s that say about me? sometimes I want to rip out your throat, daddy for all those things you said that were mean gonna make you just as vulnerable as I was, daddy what?s that say about me? sometimes I want to bash in your teeth, daddy gonna use your tongue as a stamp gonna rip your heart out the way you did mine, daddy go ahead and psycho-analyze that cause I?m your creation, I?m your love, daddy grew up to be and do all those sick things you said I?d do well last night I saw you sneak out your window with your white hood, daddy what?s that say about you? I?m sloppy, what?s that say about you? I?m messy, what?s that say about you? My bones are tired, daddyy Album: Pieces Of You
Found them, Quite a statement about racism. Nancy-Wi
Date: 6/14/2003
Time: 9:43:36 AM
Last line, should read quite a statement about racism too. Nancy
Date: 6/14/2003
Time: 12:06:22 PM
OK Irishman -
My sister and I also were adopted (each from different mothers), and i thought babies came when someone called your mom on the phone and when your mom got off the phone she told you you were getting a sister next week!
When they found out they were getting me, my folks had only a couple days to get everything ready. They definitely had no baby clothes (didn't know how big their baby would be, but had requested a girl). They had no furniture, either, or diapers -- nothing. Superstitious, I guess. Anyways, my mom walks into the store and blows their minds when she says "I'm having a baby tomorrow." Sales clerks probably went ka-CHING!!!
I also like to play with peoples' heads (I can be pretty wicked when I want to be) when I tell people my mom never had a baby.
Sally
Date: 6/14/2003
Time: 1:16:41 PM
Thank you Nancy. I don't think I'll quote it. Suffice it to say that people don't get much affirmation for being a good father these days. The bad fathers get more press. All the more reason to let God define our concept of father rather than the other way around. But also that we need to encourage and support those fathers who do make the effort to do what is right.
In the previous years posts there are some good ideas about adoption. One woman reported that when her special needs daughter was being teased about being adopted she responded, "Well, at least my mom chose me - your parents just got stuck with you!" Adds a twist to receiving the spirit of adoption that bears witness that we are children of God.
DGinNYC
Date: 6/14/2003
Time: 6:27:41 PM
Hello, I got back Friday from West OHIO Conference. Cold, windy and Rainy...Sar on the pier and soaked in God Experience. I drove there last Sunday and went to Worship at Liberty UMC in East Ohio Conference , BuCyrus. to hear a pentocost sermon. Hehe I met a fellow DPSer FisherFolk HELLO!!! Will be neat know one here now! I drove back another route scenic route I discovered OHIO actually has HILLS! LOL Preaching on ABBA Daddy too this week. I was middle school kid in 1980's I remember ABBA, the rock group---you know Dancing Queen and Knowing me Knowing you tunes...(Hmm cant tie Abba in though to sermon abba the group LOL) Well, you all be blessed in preaching God's word Pastor Mary in OHIO