2004 Discussion:
Date: 3/2/2004
Time: 9:16:46 AM
What had happened?
The Psalmist started out very confidently against his opposition in the first 3 verses.
Then suddenly his thoughts shifted toward a longing to be in the house of God, where he could worship (behold the beauty of the Lord), study (to inquire in His temple) in v.4 - He then noted in v.5-6 that dynamic (note the 3 "he will" corresponding to the "I will")
Then, starting from v.7 on, the Psalmist got deeper in his desperation for God. He cried to God, want an answer - asking God not to hide His face, not to forsake him. We see the author clinging more to His God in the surrounding oppositions. (Surprisingly it's the same oppositions he started out the Psalm with the confident tone).
What had happened here?
In the light of this week Luke 13:31-35 passage and "The Passion" movie, I see a lot of correspondence between this Psalm and Jesus. He started out confidently in Luke 13, but eventually find himself deeper and deeper in God in the garden of Ghethsemane. As Ray Anderson said, "He who walked on water became so weak that could not carry his own cross; He who raise the dead became subject to death and depend on God to vindicate himself. The divinity of Jesus disolve deep within His humanity on the cross..."
We may started out confident, but eventually we should end up doing what Jesus did and what the Psalmist described here, become so needily dependence on God. It's so paradoxical, but many older and wiser Christians will be able to point you to the same journey. For when we become weak, God become strong.
Coho, Midway City.
Date: 3/4/2004
Time: 9:47:44 PM
I cannot remember where I read this suggestion, but it makes all the difference to me.
Try reading verses 7-14 first, then 1-7.
What a difference.
It is still, however questioning the second half is, a psalm of trust in the face of darkness, questioning and adversity. It is belief in the promises of God. Faith.
mm in pa
Date: 3/5/2004
Time: 7:39:53 AM
The Passion Movie by Mel Gibson takes Jesus Suffering to the threshold of graphic brutality. What this psalm opens the door to discuss is the suffering common in our human experience and what connection we find to Jesus suffering.
The suffering of Jesus is certainly a part of the New Testament witness, but not in the context of "how much" he suffered, but why. Theology is paramount in the story, not emotion. This is evident in the very concise depiction of Jesus suffering and death. No attempt is made to describe in detail how he died or the process of dying. The evangelists are seeking to elicit faith in those who encounter the story,where Jesus suffering and death are the consequence of his life and message. Psalm 27 is filled with enemies, struggle, and passionate hope. Like Jesus passion, this psalm invites me to bring my suffering to the God who is present in the world, who somehow suffers with me and others.
bobby in Tx.
Date: 3/5/2004
Time: 8:07:22 AM
SOmehow I wrote something last night, but it didn't come through -- sorry.
Somewhere in one of my readings to prep this week there was a suggestion to take verses 7-14 and read them first, then read 1-6.
Amazing what a difference it makes. It feels even more positive.
This is a psalm about trust, even in the dark times, trust in God's promises.
mm in pa
Date: 3/5/2004
Time: 12:55:11 PM
mm in pa: I'm not sure but that the original intention of the psalmist wasn't to read this text the way it was written. We kid ourselves when we think that reaching a certain 'place' with God guarantees we can't slide back into a difficult situation. When I finally decided that what I was feeling and experiencing really was God's call to ordained ministry, I was so pleased to realize that I wouldn't have to worry about the struggles with temptation to sins that I felt very weak and helpless against. I knew I wouldn't have to deal with them any more. . . HA! I quickly discovered that no position or situation in life offers us immunity from temptation, trials & tribulations. I think this psalm, as is, offers a very realistic picture of the journey of faith. No matter how far along the way we come, it isn't always a journey forward. How much more powerful then is the expression of faith in vv. 13-14. In spite of the setbacks the psalmist faces, there is still certainty that the goodness of God will win out. Ken in WV
Date: 6/7/2004
Time: 6:04:21 AM
As MM in PA suggested I read 7-14 First and it made all the difference. You seek God first then know he is there as you feel your strengh!
D in West
Date: 8/23/2004
Time: 2:52:18 PM
Ken in WV, We all have struggles with sin, temptations and trials no matter where we are in our walk with Christ. When I feel that I am at my closest to Him is when I will face a stronger attack against my faith. These trials and tribulations are what makes us who we are. We are to count it all joy when we have trials. These are the things that produce our spiritual maturity. James 1:2-4 We should not just ask for wisdom to escape these trials , but also wisdom to endure them. I take comfort in this Psalm that I have a confidence that he will deliver me from my enemies and set me upon that rock. But I must wait on Him. Mike in NC
Date: 9/20/2004
Time: 7:56:44 AM
thank you jesus for everthing . . . forever and ever amen.
2001 Discussion:
Date: 07 Mar 2001
Time: 13:47:51
27:13 I believe that I shall see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living.
What a wonderful hope! When and where have you (me, us) seen the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living?
We have an 8 year old boy in our congregation who has been battling cancer for about 2.5 years. Currently he is undergoing treatments in the Netherlands and the procedure isn't covered by his parent's insurance. I challenged our congregation to raise the $12,500 to pay for one of his treatments and we are almost there. In our case the goodness of the Lord is evident through the love, concern, and actions of God's people.
John near Pitts.
Date: 08 Jan 2002
Time: 10:02:02
Lots of good discussion in the "previous contributions" section. I especially appreciate the final comment, regarding how closely love of God and trust (confidence) in God are linked.
This is week 3 of the Psalms/Jabez series. This week's Jabez line is "That your hand would be upon me" -- in other words 'That your presence and power would be with me'. Verse 1 and others are strong witnesses to God's presence and power in our lives. I think the point about love & trust being closely linked is important in relation to this.
other thoughts: In our drug-affected neighborhood there are kids who are ignored or actively abused by their parents. verse 10 speaks clearly to them.
What does it mean to take courage? I'm interested in exploring the aspect of courage in our Christian faith. What is courage?
Courage is the ability to use the power within you to do that which is right in the face of direct opposition to that "right" activity. That is why one often sees it used in a military context -- but it is much broader than that. In the context of Psalm 27, it is courage to face "enemies," "false witnesses" and "adversaries." There is plenty about attempting to live the Life of Grace that requires this kind of courage, i.e., to call upon that which is in us, namely the living power of God and not merely reliance upon ourselves, because as was discussed here last week, temptations and testing WILL come. So, take courage! --Joel in BoCoMo
Courage -- a good example was last weeks gospel text where Jesus is faced with the temptations and remains true to who he is despite what the devil tries to tempt him to do. Jesus is true to his identity and remins faithful to the claim that God has put on him at the Jordan baptism -- You are my Son, the beloved, in whom I am well-pleased. It is that claim that each of us undergoes in our baptism -- and it is that claim as a child of God that demands our courage in a world that does not recognize Christ as living. The courage that comes from within our identity is the courage that I believe will set us free. Hope this helps -- Lori in Luckey
From a strictly pastoral point of view - assuming for a moment the possibility of such a limitation [:-)] - I have found that many people from 'dysfunctional' family situations find great comfort in 27:10 - "When my father and mother forsake me, the Lord will take me up". That will preach! Brad T. in MA
"I believe that I shall see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living..." So many of us have a "sweet by and by" theology. Things may be rotten here, but they'll be OK in heaven. Has contributed to a lot of folks being told to keep to their "place" and not make trouble (poor folks, people of color, gay folks, women...) because even if life is bad now, it'll be OK in heaven. This is a powerful statement of faith - that justice is for now. God's goodness is for here and now - not just the hereafter. It's for today - not just someday... Margaret in Ohio
Adding to the comments about courage.. I am exploring (along with the Phil text) confidence. The psalmist, and Paul, seem to have the confidence to face life. I have taken particular note of 27:3. I want to focus the message on our gaining confidence to face life. Doug(in CA)
I am interested in verse 8-9. "Your face, Lord do I seek". From the moment a child is born, faces become the most desired objects to see. My theological question is how do people see the face of God in the midst of suffering and enemies? Where do we find God's face in tragedies such as the tornados of Florida (I was in Orlando when they hit). For the girl who lost every member of her household, where would she look to see God's face? Where have others found the face of God in tragedy?
In re: to the face of God, perhaps a reading of Frederick Buechner's "The Face in the Sky" which can be found in his book, The Hungering Dark might offer some inspiration.
John near Pitts.
Doesn't "courage" literally mean strong heart? Cour from the French means heart.
Preacherlady
I am focusing on the "face" of God. An exercise which I've used with confirmands for many years in that of asking them where they've seen the ocean? (We are from New England so this works here) I get many different responses: Florida, the Caribbean, Long Island Sound, Maine, etc. I ask each respondent to describe what the ocean is like. Of course the descriptions vary widely. I then ask them which is really the ocean. All descriptions represent a faithful and true description of the ocean, but each is limited. We then talk about what God is like. God is obviously experienced in many ways. Does God have a face? If so, what does God's face look like?
oops, last submission was from JAM in CT. Are you finding tie ins with the other lessons?
I am working on "What do you fear?" So often we live in fear and not in faith. My concern is that we act out our fear, our fear of failure, our fear of rejection, our fear being poor, our fear being an outsider etc. etc. etc. Our faith in God leads us to act from a sense of what is good, not what is safe. I believe that our nation is seen the results of a person acting out of fear, the fear of his wife, the fear of public rejection, the fear of looking bad. But we see Clinton's attempt to be safe, (after it was to late) only lead to things getting worse. Is this not a model of what happens in life? We fail to help those in need because we are afraid that we wouldn't have all we need (want). I am afraid that we are a society that is rapidly become a society that only acts out of fear. We teach our children to be "good" because if you are not you will get caught and be in trouble not because their is value in being "good". Even the church teaches "right living" so you will not go to Hell. What do you fear? Have any thoughts to add? revjcb in NE
RE: What do you fear? We do live in fear rather than in faith much of the time. Fear robs us of the abundance of life. Fear also means we need to be constanly reassured that God loves us. Vs. 9 is a good example of this need for reassurance. We are like a four year old afraid of the dark. We know there are no monsters in our room during the day but we can't live with that assurance at night. We need the continual reassurance of a parent to see us through till dawn. The psalmist, like most of us, moves back and forth between fear and faith. Persons of faith will experience fear and doubt but they won't stay there. Like the psalmist, they know they will see the goodness of the Lord in the Land of the living. Randy
One interesting exercise to do with this passage is to read it and mark each verse or phrase as reflecting either confidence in God or love of God. These two themes are integrally linked.
Todd in NC