When Jesus heard John had been arrested Jesus withdrew to Galilee. .... that makes us pause and ask why?
Why did Jesus withdraw? Was it a retreat to Galalee? was it an act of caution? a change in strategy?
Was it an emotional response? A time to be reflective?
Is Jesus regrouping? Were the particular disciples chosen, chosen in response to John being arrested. (were fisherman particularly courageous people)
Was there a need for John's mission to conclude before Jesus' began?
Immediately they left ------- and followed him.
seems pretty sudden doesnt it?
In this account it is not even as if Jesus had been preaching and ask these men to follow him as a response to the message preached.
Did they know Jesus before this? Our tour guide in Galalee said it was pretty likely that Jesus was well known in this area even before calling his first disciples.
Wait a minute, Matthew is discribing Capernum as a gentile area of Galilee. we know the synagog there was just a stones throw from Peter's house.
Could it be matthew knows nothing of Capurnum?
Withdrew may not be the right word. Was Jesus retreating. Seems like Jesus was instead launching his mission and moving to Capurnum was a means of doing just that.
How could Jesus withdraw. That statement seems to make sense only if Jesus had previously been in Jerulalem or Jerrico, more the territory of John. In that case going to Galalee would indeed be a withdrwaing. If that were the case it might indeed give credence to claims that Jesus was involved witht he Essene community at Qumran, famous for the dead sea scrolls.
The Essenes did indeed practice baptism as an innitiation to new members to their comunity. The Essenes were very big in expecting a messiah. The Essenes were always at odds with the temple leaders. The Qumran community was very near Jerrico, where the Jordan river flows into the dead sea. It is indeed a wilderness area of which John is famous.
Wasn't one of John's reasons for being out in the wilderness around the Jordan because it was a way of being away from Jerusalem, temple leaders and those who might arrest him?
So Jesus is likewise choosing an area away from the capitol as center for his ministry. But if John was not safe in the wilderness, surely Jesus knows he will not be safe either.
Therefore when Jesus recruits followers, he knows full well that they are putting themselves in danger from the very beginning.
Leaving Nazareth!
Sounds like the title for a song, maybe a theme song for those who left home to follow him.
Do James and John really have a fathe named Zebedee? Or perhaps an ancestor named Zebedee since it is called the land of Zebulin
Teaching, preaching and healing, o my.
testing
Date: 14 Jan 2002
Time: 18:50:15
I'm using a theme that was used in a preaching competition at my seminary some years ago. It was "Dare we drop our nets and follow Jesus?" The basic gist is, what's in our net that keeps us from following Jesus (immediately or otherwise).
Date: 19 Jan 2002
Time: 08:18:23
Teaching, preaching and healing! It seems that the church is glad to include prayers for the sick but is not really known for healing. Likewise, the church is known for pushing a certain abount of Bible knowledge and religious doctrines but is not often seen as a fountain of knowledge or a beacon of enlightenment.
Jesus seemed to have great practical value in the lives of people along the shores of Galalee. Are we really promoting healing and understanding enough, is there enough evidence of practical value to support our claim that we are the ones carrying on Jesus' ministry? Manzel
Date: 19 Jan 2002
Time: 08:23:44
Practical faith?
Practical Christianity? How is that any different from the standard popular versions of Christianity?
Date: 19 Jan 2002
Time: 08:35:18
A friend of mine recently recieve a email from a parishoner. It said she was not fulfilling the main purpose for preaching and ministry which the email identified as preaching about sin and salvation.
As Jesus went around Galalee healing the sick of all manor of affliction, praclaiming good news and teaching about the kingdom of God being at hand, was Jesus giving us a model for worring about Hell or obsessing about everyone's sin? Was Jesus crusading for people to make the righte choice; to be on the right team so that ther would be healing and good news or was Jesus loving people in their brokenness with no strings attached? Was that the Good new? MANZEL
Date: 19 Jan 2002
Time: 08:38:52
When Jesus calls us, is he calling us to a ministry of unconditional love? Manzel
Date: 19 Jan 2002
Time: 21:07:45
Much has been written in recent weeks about how the LIBS AND THE CONSERVS seem to FIGHT with each other too much on this site... perhaps that's true... I'm not threatened by that, do I like to see it? Why not? A little good discussion never hurt anyone...
I've had persons leave the church because I was too LIBERAL... for them...
I'm sure LIBERALS have left churches too... still, my point is this... why do we all have to agree on theology...
We're ALL created in God's image right? So, if I interpret the scripture different than you, am I a bad person... certainly not... any more than you're a bad person because I disagree with yours...
It takes all of us interpreting the scripture... DAY BY DAY... to bring about God's gift to the world. You might reach someone I will not, and I may reach someone YOU may not. Together we can make it a better world, a larger world of FAITH.
God uses us all and shares that gift to the world. The gift of peace and loving our neighbors as God loves us...
Most of you may have seen this quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr... it seems rather timely... give the situation in the world today.... It is excerpted from "Loving Your Enemies", a sermon delivered on 17 November 1957 at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Ala.
ML King Jr. said... of conflict...
"I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I think this is at the very center of Jesus? thinking, is this: that hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that?s the strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, that it doesn?t cut it off. It only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. Somebody must have religion enough and morality enough to cut it off, and inject within the very structure of the universe that strong and powerful element of love."
Blessings,
pulpitt in ND
Date: 20 Jan 2002
Time: 15:50:16
pulpitt in ND: You sound like what we are supposed to believe in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). However, it sickens me when the conservatives and the liberals, alike, are intolerant of the views of others. It makes me think of something radio psychologist Dr. Laura said once. "What is more important - your relationship, or being right?" I think for too many people, it is being right. Why can't we be Christians and supportive of the right of people to have their own opinions? I am one of those fence sitters - sometimes I am liberal, sometimes conservative. Some would say that is an aweful place to be. PH in OH
Date: 20 Jan 2002
Time: 16:10:33
I just read the comments to date here...and then went to the Epistle passage for this week. It seems that Paul was also bothered by "factions" in the Body......
I don't mind differences of opinion at all...but at times when people get so...angry behind differences on these pages....it is troubling. I am having difficulty picking scriptures..and need to get going early this week, as we have our leadership retreat Friday and Saturday...(no time for a desperate preacher to cram it all in at the end of the week.....) Hopefully the comments will flow a bit early this week.
I feel that I have preached these passages before....and would like to breathe fresh air into them this time around....
Just thinking outloud...
Jude in Wash
Date: 20 Jan 2002
Time: 17:23:00
Jesus left the territory of herod and went to the territoy of his brother Phillip because Herod had sent word that he wanted to see Jesus and Jesus saw how he had just seen John. So jesus goes to a more friendly and receptive territory. By the way Pulpitt, Jesus saie there is a way that seems right unto a man but thge end there of is death. We better be very careful how we interpret the scriptures it is not allright to interpret them as we please.
Harold in Alabama
Date: 20 Jan 2002
Time: 19:17:09
Jesus called these men to be His disciple - so what is a disciple? In the process of studying our spiritual gifts and the ministry that God calls us to - a young mother shared her frustration. She wanted to respond to whatever ministry God called her to - yet she couldn’t see at all how she would have time for anything else and with 3 youngsters under the age of 5 - there was little she could take off her plate. I was reminded of this when I read an article in Christian Century by Dallas Wallace titled “How to be a disciple.” He draws the analogy of a disciple being an apprentice. “For a disciple of Jesus is not necessarily one devoted to doing specifically religious things... I am learning from Jesus to live my life as he would live life if he were here. I am not necessarily learning to do everything he did, but I am learning how to do everything I do in the manner in which he did all that he did. I am learning from Jesus how to lead my life, my whole life, my real life.” No matter what our ‘main occupation,’ we learn from Christ how to live that position. Everything from being a mother, a research scientist, a professor, a dairy farmer, a student, a retired army general and the list goes on. How would Jesus live this life of mine? So a disciple is someone learning from Christ how to live his or her life - His way. Incorporating Christ in all hours and facets of our life. I hear the confusion about discipleship in many ways, don‘t you? That’s the minister’s job - ministers do God’s work full time - lay people are part-timers, they have to do God’s work on their days off or after hours. Oh to clear up this misconception..... just being to think here. Glad too that ya’ll are starting early. It’s a great help. mitcavis
Date: 20 Jan 2002
Time: 20:56:56
Part-time disciple? What about a title: When are you a Disciple? Glad to see action early. Thanks to all for last week. Nancy-Wi
Date: 21 Jan 2002
Time: 05:28:04
A very important part of this scripture is that Jesus called these men, not because they were disciples, but to BECOME disciples! None of these dudes really proved themselves while Jesus was with them, it was later that all that Jesus had taught them jelled. I have been called to "become" and I will have to work all my life at that.
I do have a question, this week in John, we preached that Andrew was a disciple of John the Baptist and he brought two of his disciples (Andrew was one) to Jesus and they became his disciples, then, Andrew brought his brother Simon to Jesus. I preached on the evangelism aspect. Now, this week we have the Matthew passage where Jesus calls these two men from fishing. How do I do this???? I am thinking it might be easier just to pick another scripture! Except, I would really like to go with the theme of being called to become. Toni in WV
Date: 21 Jan 2002
Time: 07:38:54
All the Disciples were part time disciples at the beginning. There were the twelve that he later chose. There were also the seventy that He sent out two by two. Then there was the 120. then the multitudes and the women. Jesus called Peter three times.
Harold in Alabama
Date: 21 Jan 2002
Time: 08:02:25
Harold - I know Prov. 14:12 says "there is a way which seems right, but..." Did Jesus quote that at some point? I remember him saying, "I am the way..." but not that. It seems to me that interpreting the Scriptures in light of the life and ministry of Jesus (the Way, and the Word) might be our only hope. In other words, if I interpret them in such a way that I am judgmental and unloving, am I really being true to the Word and the Way? Just thinkin' And, I noticed that the first few postings didn't have names. It's helpful to know how to respond, so could y'all attach at least initials? Thanks. Also - Can we get back to the passage for this week and hop off the lib vs. consev. jag? Seems to me we're on the same team already...haven't we left our nets to follow Jesus? Just thinkin' NBC Preacher
Date: 21 Jan 2002
Time: 14:28:47
Toni ... you don't need to reconcile this account with John's account. Remember, the Gospels are not "histories" the way we moderns think of them. John and Matthew were working in different communities with differing oral traditions. Each had remembered the way in which the disciples came to follow Jesus in a different way. Memory is like that... the essential fact -- that they came to follow Jesus -- is maintained, but the penumbra of surrounding details is changed through the several years of telling and retelling the story until John in his community and Matthew in his finally write it down. Just explain that to your people and you don't need to feel uncomfortable with the differences between the two Gospellers' accounts.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 23 Jan 2002
Time: 20:43:32
testing
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 05:54:25
I think I am going to tie together two things that Jesus says in this passage -- repent and follow. Too often, there are people who repent (so they think) without following Jesus, or they follow Jesus (so they think) without repenting.
OLAS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 06:56:21
"withdrew" is arguably better translated from the Greek as "departed," which brings an entirely different connotation.
As a convert to Christianity, I'm sharing a variety of glimpses of ways in which God "fished" for me and invited people to reflect on how Jesus uses other Christians as he fishes for each of his chosen ones. Am also asking people to reflect on how God may use them to fish for people.
Tied in with all of this is the notion of how reluctantly we often follow...and how these two sets of brothers followed IMMEDIATELY when called.
BC in PA
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 08:35:04
Toni in WV, Eric in KS is right of course, these stories are from different books, written by and for different folks in differing settings, but...
While I don't usually feel compelled to justify the gospels, in this instance I feel it actually helps. Stick with me, there's a lot of 'what-if' quality to this. I wouldn't form any doctrines or dogmas on this interpretation, but here goes-
In John's account, Jesus does not call Andrew. Andrew follows on John's testimony, then brings Simon, also uncalled by Jesus. If you go on(Jn.1:43) Jesus does call Philip, making Phil, not Andrew or Simon, the first called disciple. Philip goes and gets Nathaniel and Jesus says some neat things to him too, but doesn't call him, per se. But next, Jesus and his disciples(plural) go to Cana for a wedding, so maybe Nathaniel, and Zeb's sons were following, but maybe not.
Anyway, this initial meeting with Andrew and Simon down around the Jordan would explain Matthew's account of the encounter on the seashore. It seems like an abrupt commision from a stranger, but maybe this is a re-encounter with someone already familiar, now finally calling them to follow. John's story actually makes Matthew's easier to believe, not harder. Can't say for sure, but it makes sense to me.
mitcavis, wow!, thanx! That view of discipleship definitely makes sense to me. How would Jesus live out the life of love if he were, say, a mother of three instead of a single carpenter. He did live a specific life in a particular place and time, as do we. Good stuff.
O.K., here is what I'm thinking at the moment, about preaching. Just a nugget of thought so far. Jesus withdrew from Jerusalem when the tide turned against John's kind of theology, which Jesus shared. If he stayed, probably he would be next. BUT, he didn't run back home to Nazareth, except to pack up and go to Capernaum. We often fail or face trouble and give up and go home. Jesus set out for a new frontier. Somewhere between the danger of confrontation and the comfort of cacooning is the promise or potential for meaningful ministry. Where to go from there? Help me if you can... tom in TN(USA)
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 09:06:18
OLAS, Yes, that is a great sermon idea. It also flows, does it not, from the Gospel lesson from a couple weeks ago when John baptized Jesus. lp in CO
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 10:28:37
This is a test to see if my post "goes through." I've wanted to say "THANK YOU" to the affirmations last week! I didn't get a chance to re-visit after that first time, because my schedule changed (to be home with my kids in the afternoons)! Anyways, when I've tried to post this week, I get a funny message that says "this page cannot be displayed."
Sally in GA
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 10:42:36
I tried to post this earlier but it failed to appear. In any event, I wonder about Zebedee in this passage. How did he react? He had lost his sons and coworkers which was a hardship.
I am thinking that Zebedee was also called. Like Dallas Wallace has written his calling was expressed in his life/occupation. His calling was to follow Jesus as a fisherperson while James and John were called to physically follow Jesus.
Zebedee's call then mirrors our own as we try to be disciples of Jesus without the physical relationship that was possible for the Biblical disciples.
What do you think? Shalom, David in WV
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 10:47:16
It seems like this week and last week have some structure that is the same. In each the first part affirms the full fillment of prophecy and the second is a call to action. A call to faith last week and a call to action this week. This week a completely new lifestyle and career change. Leaving behind seemingly withouth thought the tools of the former vocation. The expensive nets. Just a thought Nancy-Wi.
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 10:49:44
Great! Good to know I'm still on speaking terms with y'all (haha)
Just because it ties in with so much that's gone on in my and my church's life lately, I'm going to take the EXCELLENT suggestion that someone, uh, suggested, several posts ago: "What's in your net?"
Sometimes I identify with Matthew! He's hands-on and impatient. He calls for a decision that we can stick with, by which we can immerse the rest of our lives into membership in Christ's Body. Few are as intense as he is, but if your decision isn't an all-body, all-soul commitment, is it much of a commitment at all? Are we in or out?
How few of us are ready to leave our nets! An e-mail conversation with one of my own best friends brought this all up: I'd told her that if every member gave only $75.00 a month, we'd have a $5,000 surplus in the budget by the end of the year. She wrote back, "After bills and everything else, there is nothing left for charity. I gave $40.00 to the church that baptized Mikie a couple months ago." I don't know what disturbed me more, that the church is designated a "charity" (I even try to work without turning on the heat), or that she found the money to take her sons to go see "Toy Story 2 on Ice." Yet, my salary is "charity?" My kids' food and clothes are "charity" to be funded from left-overs?????
Same goes for UM preachers who won't itinerate.
Anyways, I'm praying for grace, and I think I can form a pretty straightforward discipleship sermon. Any good examples or illustrations from anyone (I don't think I'll use the one I gave above).
Sally in GA
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 11:16:11
Toni in WV pointed out that Jesus didn't call these men because they were disciples already, but to become disciples. I'm preaching about "going on to perfection" (can you tell my tradition?!). We are called to be learners of Christ's way of life, and then to share that way of life with others. We are not perfect. The disciples were not perfect. They all left him at the cross. James and John asked to be first. Yet their sharing of the way of a disciple changed the world. But,as someone else said, they also ACTED. They didn't just show up for the Sermon on the Mount, tell Jesus "good job this morning," leave and not do anything about their Christianity until the next cute story. They LIVED the life of a learner, always learning, maybe getting an answer wrong here and there, maybe not completely understanding the concept the first time, but they never gave up trying.
Just thoughts.
RevJan
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 12:23:30
To Toni in WV
If I can add a "conservative" (Southern Baptist) voice to the discussion of reconciling John and Matthew, I actually see no problem reconciling them as histories. Andrew's visit with Jesus was not his full commitment to Jesus but was, in fact, the introduction to Him that someone else spoke of (unnamed person 09 Jan 2002 - 13:33:11). Following this meeting, I suspect he and the other disciple of John (thought to be John, son of Zebedee) returned to their lives and livlihoods. Here in Matthew, Jesus is calling them for lifetime work with Him; to leave the nets and follow Him completely. We often give prospective members of our churches an understanding of our mission and work before they become full-fledged members and even then, instruction continues. So there's really no conflict at all, as I see it.
I guess what intrigues me here is that the first recorded word Jesus speaks in beginning His ministry is exactly the same first recorded word John speaks when beginning his. "Repent." Even in conservative churches, the subject of "repentance" is not popular. Doesn't the call of God on our lives always involve a change? Doesn't God call demand we not remain where we are and join Him where He is working? Can we truly remain as we are now and say we are growing in our relationship with Jesus and our following Him? The very thought is illogical. Growth requires change. Repentance is change - a change from my direction toward God's.
Why is "repent" considered such a negative word? It's a truly positive word. It is the word of growth, education and experience. To despise repentance is to be satisfied with things as they are. Some may think that we conservative preachers have put the negative "spin" on repentance and, sad to say, they may be right. I have chosen to repent of such thinking.
JG in WI
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 12:48:16
JG in WI asked, "Why is 'repent' considered such a negative word?"
Don't you suppose it's because in the modern American church (as opposed to the Biblical use of the term) it is considered equivalent to "confession"? I preached on this very thing a couple of weeks ago. The Biblical words for "repentance" are "shoob" in Hebrew (meaning "to turnaround on the road", literally to make a U-turn) and "metanoia" (Greek, "to change one's mind"). Confession and making amends for sin become something one must do if the change of direction is to "stick" ... but they are not the same thing! How many folks do you know (I know plenty) who are all the time saying "I'm sorry for the things I've done" but they never change directions and keep right on doing the same things? So clearly there is a difference between "confession" and "repentance" but in our churches we mix them all up and that gives "repentance" that negative "aura".
Just thinking out loud.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 13:38:40
I too, Jude, am looking to breathe fresh air into this text, or invite the Spirit to breathe fresh air into me as a preacher of this text. I'm leaning toward using this passage as a model and encouragement for others to begin new ministries, or at least renew commitment to living as disciples. From this story and Jesus' example in beginning his ministry we learn: 1) Know the dangers (in light of what happened to John, Jesus moves to a safer place), 2) Don't go it alone (even the Messiah gathers others to work together), 3) just do it (teach, preach, heal), 4 )include everyone (Jesus cured every illness; no malady was too odious for Jesus).
I am looking for stories of people (especially lay people) beginning new ministries: how it happened, what were the sequence of events, what processes occurred. I’m also looking for stories specifically about “know the dangers,” “going it alone,” “just do it,” or “include everyone.” Can anyone help?
Thanks. This is the first time I’ve posted. I’ve been a voyeur much too long. JBinID
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 14:43:31
Sally, I agree about Charity. I took offense at a meeting once when a humane society administrator talked about it being as important a charity as church. Perhaps, it is this very concept that causes us problems with stewardship or both time and money. It is wonderful that the goverment makes us tax exempt but then that classifys us as "charity". Just some thoughts. I want to know how you don't itinerate? Nancy-Wi
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 14:46:28
One great story of an absolutely incredible and inspired laywoman can be found at http://www.sharingandcaringhands.com/history.htm Thanks for all the LIFE shared and expressed here. socalb
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 14:58:05
I am interested if anyone has information on why it was important to mention Zebulun and Naphthali by name(knowing that they are the tribes in the area of Galilee)in the NT and OT scripture. Is there a significance in those tribes in particular, to Isaiah or Matthew? Or are they just occupiers of the land. It is interesting that although the first exile (of the Northern tribes in 721 BCE) was only of the leaders, [whose Assyrian replacements intermarried with the population, making the Samaritans looked on as halfbreeds and impure]that the area of Galilee, to include Asher, Zebulun, and Naphthali, were not accorded the same scorn as Ephraim and Manasseh West [who were located in what became Samaria]. Any insight B Rock in HI
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 15:17:54
I'm thinking about fishing. Fishermen are fanatic. When the fish are biting, all else must wait. You can fish without first puting your hook into the water. The fish will never come to you. You have to go where they are. HB in MS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 15:20:15
I'm going with the title: WALKING IN THE LIGHT, connecting with Ps. 27 as well as the Isaiah reference in Matthew. To be called to be a disciple is called to walk in the light. Interestingly enough, this week has been a time to confront my "shadow", with references to Robert Johnson, Robert Bly, and Miller"s DRAMA OF THE GIFTED CHILD. What's the connection? I'm not sure, but there is something afoot here. Any thoughts? SupChapPA
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 15:46:19
I am going with a title: "A Call to the Weary." Peter and Andrew, James and John were totally immersed in their jobs as fishermen. They worked long hours, sometimes without much reward. They were dealing with only a small part of the world...their world. When Jesus called them to be his disciples it was a call to engagement....to engage the entire world with all of its needs in human desperation and illness.
So too I think all to often the church has had a very narrow focus for its ministry. The church is called to engage the world.....all of it. It is called to move beyond its often parochial vision of ministry. I look at many church members who are literally exhausted by keeping the machinery of the church going and attending meetings to hear the minutes of the previous meeting and plan when the next meeting will occur. We need a new vision in the church such that we truly engage the world in a kind of dialogue on all of the real issues in life that really matter to all of us. Issues involving how we relate to other religions, issues involving sexuality and a woman's right to choose vs. a right to life, issues involving terrorism, gun control, and the right to bear arms. There are so many adult issues to which Christianity brings a perspective. What better place to quietly try to bring together the different opinions and understand one another than the church. Just as those early fishermen, we need to have our sites raised with a fresh vision about what engagement with other people whose ideas, whose heritage, whose lifestyles are different than ours really means. That to me is the "call" that Jesus lays on us all.
Rev. Bob
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 17:01:58
My last sermon on this Gospel text was when it came upon the Episcopal BCP lectionary this Sunday three years ago. If you'd like to take a look at that sermon the url is
http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/asermons/epiph3a.htm
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 17:16:03
HB in MS wrote: "I'm thinking about fishing."
When the Markan version of this story came up on the Episcopal BCP lectionary on 3rd Epiphany two years ago (1-23-00), I preached from the "fisherman" angle (no pun intended). The first few paragraphs of that sermon are ....
........
Here in the Great Plains, as in most of America, our vision, our understanding of fishing is as a singular pursuit. A fisherman takes a rod and reel, baits the hook, casts out into a river, a stream or a lake. You may put very little effort into fishing just cast your lure out there somewhere, plant your poll and sit back; you may put a great deal of effort into fishing creating your own "flies" and casting repeatedly to mimic the actions of living insects. But little effort or a great deal it is a singular pursuit a one-on-one confrontation between the angler and the fish.
The poet Don Marquis has written, rather correctly, I think: "Our idea of fishing is to put all the exertion up to the fish. If they are ambitious, we will catch them. If they are not, we let them go about their business." (Prefaces, New York ; London : D. Appleton and Company, 1919.)
I believe that American singular notion of fishing, that it is a one-man, rod-and-reel, catch-one-fish-at-a-time operation, colors the way we American Christians have understood Jesus's call to Andrew and Simon, which is, in fact, Jesus's call to all of us. We have understood evangelism to be a one-on-one operation; one Christian going out into the stream of humanity, casting about to catch one sinner, and dragging that sinner into church, then going back to cast about again and, hopefully, catch another sinner.
Perhaps that is why we Episcopalians shy away not only from the activity, but from the very word "evangelism." We see in it something akin to the single angler standing on the river bank casting his bate into the stream, and with that view of evangelism we feel about it as comedian Steven Wright has commented about fishing, "There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore like an idiot." One-on-one personal evangelism feels like "standing on the shore like an idiot."
However, the fishermen of Galilee were not anglers. They were (and still are) seine fishers ... they are not interested in catching one fish at a time: they drop nets into the sea and pull up hundreds or thousands of fish at a time.
When Jesus called them to be fishers of men, or fishers of people as the N.R.S.V. has it, he was calling them to an audacious ministry to reach many, many folks with the Good News of God's Salvation ... not just one or two at a time.
.........
The rest of the sermon is at http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/bsermons/epi32000.htm
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 17:39:41
Do any of you know of a lectionary source that relates current movies/media to the readings as possible sermon support material?
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 17:48:01
Someone asked, "Do any of you know of a lectionary source that relates current movies/media to the readings as possible sermon support material?"
There is a link to such materials at The Text This Week ... http://www.textweek.com/
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 17:48:13
Someone asked, "Do any of you know of a lectionary source that relates current movies/media to the readings as possible sermon support material?"
I believe there is a link to such materials at The Text This Week ... http://www.textweek.com/
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 18:41:48
I don't know about the Greek and Hebrew roots of the word "repent", but in English it is related to serpent. Both mean to crawl-- the difference is in the direction. "Serpent" means "to crawl away"; "repent" means "to crawl toward." It practically preaches itself (which I have done before).
OLAS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 18:54:54
Hello, DPS'ers, and thanks for all the great contributions so far. I'm amazed how some of you "stay with the discussion", tho'. I seem to get one word in now and then, and I don't have time to get back. I wanted to put in a thought about Zebulun and Naphtali...the first area to be captured by Tiglath-Pilaser, the Israelites taken into captivity and then the area "colonized" by the Assyrians. Interesting to me that Jesus chooses to go and live among the Gentiles rather than stay among the Nazarenes, who on his first preaching engagement tried to throw him off a cliff. (But that's another text, for another time.) I'm rather captivated by the whole fishing imagery. These guys are professionals, not your weekend fishermen types. Yet they "give it all up" to change careers. "Fish for people" can't possibly mean "use the skills you have but in a new venue"...or, could it? Makes me feel good about helping people name and affirm their spiritual gifts, though. So, what skills DO they have? (Gifts for ministry.) Patience, certainly. What about joy, peace, generosity, gentleness, self-control? (All from Paul's list of the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians.) Hmmm. I still don't know where I'm going with this, but it's food for thought. Another thought: James and John leave the fishing business in the capable hands of their Dad (and probably some hired men, too, and become disciples, and we learn that their Mom is one of the women involved in funding the ministry and ministering to the group. I'm inclined to agree with the one who posited that maybe it was John in last week's lesson from John, and they've had a little while to think about this Jesus, so when he comes to Capernaum their hearts are ready. When he says, "Come, follow me", they know what they feel excited about, which is why they IMMEDIATELY leave it all and follow. (I know you're not supposed to "harmonize" the gospels, but it does seem appropriate here.) Another phrase I'm drawn to: "I will MAKE you fishers of people." We are "I'll do it myself" folk, so often. Maybe the key to our getting this is LET JESUS DO IT IN US. What miracles does Jesus work in these disciples? Many. What miracles does Jesus work in our lives? Jesus made me into one who preaches the Word - amazing! I was this shy, rather scared little kid, who really didn't want anyone to look at me. Transformed by the Gospel? YOU BET! (And go ahead and use that as an illustration, if you care to. Blessings! LLPin PC
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 19:00:27
OLAS ... yes, that sermon does practically preach itself ... except in this case there are two words "repent" which are homonyms (The dictionary definition of that is "One of two or more words that have the same sound and often the same spelling but differ in meaning, such as bank (embankment) and bank (place where money is kept).") And the word "repent" related to the word "serpent" is a different "repent"!
"Repent" -- the word used in biology does, indeed, mean "to creep" -- it's derivation is from the Latin "repens" or "repent-", the present participle of "repere," to creep.
"Repent" -- the word used in religion has a different etymology. It is from the Latin "paenitre" meaning "to be sorry."
My first degree was in English and linguistics, so these questions of word origin are very dear to my heart. I love the repent-serpent thing as an illustration, but don't take it too far!
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 20:58:39
Hello all,
Good discussion... I'm "going fishin'" on Sunday... seems a good fisherman, doesn't take EVERYTHING in... in fact, the less mature are sent back into the "pond" for another day.
We (clergy) see it all the time... people get upset with something we might say from the pulpit. Some may even walk out, or go back to the "pond" without a word. This isn't always bad... now, this will sound harsh, but I think some people need to "grow up"...
It's almost as if they "check out" at confirmation age... and don't come back until they start having their own kids.
Did any of you happen to catch John Shelby Spong on MPR (Minnesota Public Radio) or your local public radio. He just wrote a new book regarding Christianity in the 21st Century. It sounds a lot like his "Why Christianity must change or die?" He made some very thought provoking points regarding many of our closed minded beliefs that are no longer relevant to modern day Christian Thinkers. To listen you can find his talk at...
http://news.mpr.org/programs/midday/rafiles/2002/01/23_midday2.ram
pulpitt in ND
Date: 24 Jan 2002
Time: 21:35:50
http://www.commonwealthclub.org/01-10spong-audio.html
This site might be better to hear Spong's words...
Thanks,
pulpitt in ND
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 00:29:42
An intriguing and enlightening discussion.
I want to tease out a little more the richness of the image of the fisherman. It must have been significant for Jesus, because a third of his workforce were men of the sea.
Fisherman require discipline, patience, perseverance, and wisdom. They are often meditative people, with periods of time on their hands, with nothing but the sea and their thoughts to wile away the time. They think deeply about matters, they have the time to. They are hard workers. It is not an easy matter pulling in fully laden nets. They often come up empty handed, and yet they are not discouraged. They do it all again tomorrow. They are able to work together, no, it is absolutely necessary for them to work together. They have to get on in a very confined space. Anyone who has ever been in a boat for any period of time, will know that the other's habits and idosyncracies can quickly get you down if you're not willing to bear their faults.
They take the time to understand their environment, situation and opponents (fish). Their livelihood depends upon it. They are not averse to trying new things, while maintaining the basics.
Perhaps, most importantly they are people who understand their status in the scheme of things. They have seen the power of nature and they recognise their insignificance against such forces. How much more powerful is it for them then, when Jesus controls the wind and the waves.
I would suggest that these men would make the perfect disciples of a man seeking radical change in society, and needing such dedication in the craft of catching human beings.
My belief is that these four fisherman caught our Lord's eye, in a very special way.
Regards to all for a great week-end of fishing.
KGB in Aussie.
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 06:09:31
Socalb- Thanx so much for the connection to "sharing and Caring Hands". The woman who started it was given and Angel Grant by the Oprah foundation and I had tried to find out more info about her then, but all my efforts were for naught.
Blessings ALS in CNY
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 06:27:21
Hi All again. I wrote a sermon a few years ago on an essay by Edie Clark (the back page of Yankee) called "Prayer Ice". It took me a while to find it so I could refer to it here, but I did....
it's about Ice Fishing. I went to school in MN so I know about Ice fishing (;)!
(from my sermon) She calls this particular point in the season prayer ice. “I’ve always assumed that prayer ice means it’s so thin that you say your prayers when you go out onto it. But maybe it means you say your prayers that the ice will come back, at least for a week or two....Faith is an action. God is more concerned about how we live the Christian life than what we say about Christianity. The test of our faith in Christ is seen by our willingness to obey God’s commandments...."
The sermon is actually based on John 3.1-17 and is about Nicodemus, but the idea of Prayer Ice, how fragile and what trust we need to "walk on water" might fit here too. Fisherfolk need to trust and be patient, need to sit and be quiet, need to KNOW that....eventually...the fish will come..if the bait is good enough (of course, if you're fishing for SkipJack-baby bluefish) off a dock, you realize that they will bite at anything in their way (crazy fish)...even an empty hook!)
ALS in CNY
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 07:40:00
KGB Good points about fisherpersons. It is helpful. I am thinking about using it to get people to identify their strongest fishing gifts. Nancy-Wi
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 08:58:48
FWIW, I share this story. It really IS my story, so feel free to use it. I used to go fishing with a retired truck driver named Mack. Every Friday, Mack and I would leave at 5 AM to go fishing. Mack was a good fellow, but about as hard-headed a person as you would ever want to meet. He would always call me on Thursday and tell me what color jigs (plastic-coated hooks) to take with me the next day. One Thursday he called to let me know that I needed jigs with a red head and a green tail. I told Mack that there was no time for me to go buy two-tone jigs. I told him I would just use green jigs. He told me that if I didn't have the right color jigs, I shouldn't waste my time going fishing. Friday morning came, and I didn't have my two-tone jigs. Mack chewed me out all the way to the lake. He assured me that I wouldn't be catching anything that day, and he told me not to ask him for one of his jigs. "I warned you," he said. God must have a sense of humor. I started catching fish immeidately. Mack didn't. I can't print exactly what he said every time I hauled in another fish. After I had six fish in the box, and he had none, he finally said, "Dale?" "Yes, Mack." "Can I have one of those green jigs?" When you're fishing, you always use the bait that they're biting. -Dale in Chattanooga
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 09:00:06
I guess I'm on my own with this Zebedee thing. Why wasn't Zeb called? Or was he since the text reads that he and his sons were in the boat and Jesus called to them. Did Zeb reject Jesus' call?
David in WV
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 09:24:40
hi Everyone,
I've been reading Robert Dykstra's new book, Discovering a Sermon. He recommends a long period of solitary work, "playing with the text". Then much later, comes "playing with strangers". So I wait until Friday to check this site to see what you all have come up with. Here are some of my thoughts.
Matthew has an interest in calling his readers to a complete, leave everything decision. Mt deletes the fact that Zebedee has hired hands who will help him (see Mark's account). Apparently there was a need in his church for a whole hearted commitment, one in which Christ comes before job and family.
I do not think that emphasis is needed or healthy in our church. I do not want to encourage my folks to leave their jobs and families to go "serve the Lord" someplace else. So I am offering a different reconstruction of the calling of the disciples.
For what it's worth, I believe "what really happened" involved Jesus issuing many calls to his disciples. We see two of them in John and matthew. Jesus took missionary journeys throughout this fairly small region in Galilee, spending much time in the three towns of Bethsaida, Chorazim and Capernaum. He made his headquarters in Capernaum, staying at Peter's house. The disciples, I believe, did not leave their fishing business totally forever. They came back to it in between the trips that they took with Jesus.
This is not Matthew's interpretation of what happened, but I think it is a reasonable alternative based on a lot of clues that are given in the gospels.
shalom, Larry cny
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 10:26:45
Hi everybody, Last week I took an approach that I now wish I had saved 'till this week. Maybe it will be helpful to some of you who are still looking for an idea or two since it would seem to apply equally to this week's lesson. Last week I noted that the stories of the people who had recognized Jesus as the Messaih in the previous weeks -- Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, the wise men, and John the Baptist -- had all done so at least in part as the result of some sort of supernatural blessing. Visits from angels, signs in the sky, John's vision were all great blessings that helped their recipients to faith in Jesus. On the other hand, beginning last week and this week with Andrew, Peter, James, John, etc. we have examples of people who follow Jesus without having first received supernatural help. Yes, I suppose it could be argued that some of John's disciples had also seen the vision at Jesus' baptism, but John doesn't specifically tell us that they had. At any rate, this week's version of their call doesn't include any suggestion of anything more than simple faith.
I used their faithful responses and their "come and see" invitations as the accounts of the first links in the chain of faith that has reached down the years to us when we were first invited to "come and see."
Now, having thrown that idea out, I'd like to toss up another for this week. IN the early '80's I was a student at the US navy Chaplain's School in Newport, RI. One part of our curriculum was a course in basic shipboard damage control. We all took classes and had written tests on the subject, and then our final exam was an exercise in which we went aboard the USS Buttercup, a little ship floating in a tank that was used to help us practice the skills we had read about. We went aboard, the ship sprung some leaks, and we went below to fix them before it "sank" -- settled to the bottom of the tank it was in. As I recall, we had three chances to keep it from sinking. The first time we went aboard with ignorant confidence -- we had all passed the written test and none of the info seemed too complicated. But when we plunged into the dark noisy flooding compartment and hit that COLD water that was alteady 2' deep on the deck a lot of that knowlege was forgotten. Another problem was tat we went down there without anybody being clearly in charge. Some leaks had thre people working on them and some had none and nobody tried to start a pump. We sank the thing in minutes.
As the ship was pumped out we organized ourselves. We picked one person to be in charge of assigning people to different jobs and the next time we went in we kept it afloat.
So what has this to do with this week's gospel? Two things: 1) The diffeerence between book learning and the real thing. The fishermen, we all assume, knew what the book had to say about the coming savior, but knowing what the book said and the actual real-life presence of the savior were two very different things.
2) We all have to have a leader. There must be someone in our lives to whom we will look for direction. The fishermen in this week's Gospel recognized Jesus as their leader, the one from whom their lives would take direction.
Well, enough for now. Sorry about the long post, but since I haven't conributed in a few months maybe my average is still OK.
Fr. C in CA
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 10:28:35
On repentance:
It was, I think, Dwight Eisenhower who said "Any change is implied criticism of the past." When we suggest that people repent, turn around, we are asking them to change, thus implying that what they've been doing has been "wrong" in some way. Imagine that!
Most modern church people, of course, don't think they do anything wrong. They come to church, plunk their dollar or two in the plate and want to go home thinking "my what a good boy/girl am I!" They don't rob, murder, and most don't commit adultery. So, why should they change? They're happy with their lives, and if you aren't preacher, then maybe you'd better find another scripture to preach about so they don't feel guilty.
The trouble is we've identified sin too often as the "seven deadly sins" not what it really is, not living with God everyday, actively seeking to do God's will.
The Dallas Willard article can be read at this site:
http://www.religion-online.org/cgi-bin/relsearchd.dll/showarticle?item_id=336
RevJan
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 10:41:35
Eric,
What is the Greek word used for "make" in verse 19?
RevJan
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 10:54:26
pulpit in ND
Don't care too much for Spong. In his writing he is clearly biased against the supernatural, does NOT believe in the resurrection and trashes the Apostles Creed. He does this not from a position of scholarship, but from a position of assumed authority... the equivalent of "can't be true because I say so" or "no modern person can believe these stories told by preliterate, premodern and prescientific people".
Michael
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 11:55:04
RevJan:
The Greek "make" in v. 19 is "poieo" (poy-EH-oh)... it has a whole slew of meanings!
When used in the sense of "to make" it's basic meaning is "to construct, produce, or fashion." When used in regard to a person, it means "to constitute, appoint, or ordain" or "to cause the other to do something."
It can also mean "to do" (and this is the more common usage)it means "to act rightly" or "to carry out correctly." It also can mean "to celebrate" as in "to 'do' the Passover."
Need anything more?
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 11:59:24
Was talking to a friend about the Gospel...
he had read somewhere on the internet... about "Fishing or Keeping an Aquarium"...
I like the image...
Therefore, I changed my sermon title for Sunday to "Aquarium Keeping?" As opposed to "Fishing!"... the premise will be that we as the "organized church" are more interested in keeping up the Aquarium than we are about putting "new fish" in our pond"... what do you think? Fishermen also, when they catch a small one, or an immature one... they throw it back until it fleshes out a little more. I'm just rambling here... but stay with me. There are some people that need to be in the pond of life a little longer to know what works theologically and what doesn't.
Just some early "for me" thoughts...
pulpitt in ND
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 12:08:04
Michael: While I generally agree with you about my fellow Episcopalian John Shelby Spong, sometime Bishop of Newark, I think we do need to pay some attention to him. He speaks for a large segment of modern folks, perhaps not the ones in our pews but the ones who aren't there and need to be. If we just write him off, we run the risk of being as dismissive of him and the "post-moderns" he speaks for as he (and they) are of those "preliterate, premodern, prescientific people".
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 12:13:48
Dale in Chattanooga
A GREAT story, thanks!
Got another one for you... this too is true...
A friend of mine is a great fisherman, fishes whenever he gets a few minutes away... in fact, he is almost legendary in the part of Dakota he once served. One day, he was fishing... a couple good ole boys came by, noticed the large catch on his stringer...
"That's a nice line of fish!" they said...
"Thanks!" said my friend. "What line of work are you in?" they asked.
"I'm a pastor!" he replied. "Well, that sure is a nice line of fish, but there is another preacher lives around here, I hear tell, he is one GRREAT fisherman!"
My friend Mark, smiled and said, "I'm THAT fisherman!"...
They didn't believe him...
It's hard to be humble eh?
pulpitt in ND
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 12:27:46
Michael,
Well, we won't agree, and that IS OK...still...
After listening to Spong, I turned on our local news last night... seems there is a local Catholic Priest in the area that happened to be near the WTC on September 11th. In fact he and a fellow priest were scheduled to be up on the 105th floor look out of one of the towers... but they were running late... because, as he put it. "I was having an extra cup of coffee that morning... I'm not even supposed to drink coffee 'cause of my high blood pressure."
He has been "telling his story" to area school children ever since...
I'm not sure what his story is. It would be interesting to hear the rest of his story. I mean, does he tell them that? "It pays to be late, in life!" "Does he somehow think he was spared because he is a priest and he could help other people MORE than what those 3,000+ could have throughout their lives?" Come on!
Martin Luther King's daughter is quoted as having said last Monday... "Amongst the ash and the ember... color disappeared..." as did class, station, and creed... Spong challenges Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham's daughter... who claimed it was...because we've taken God out of the schools, etc. Spong said, "these people were in the wrong place at the wrong time..." that's what I liked about Spong... tragedy can and does happen.
The song..."God will take care of you..." is bad theology if you're loved one died in that horrible tragedy. Granted, if you die... God will continue to care for you... but how many would find comfort in that song after the death of a spouse, child, parent..."
Just another opinion... I'm not arguing... just stating how it is for me... in this place ... in this hour...
pulpitt in ND
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 12:38:54
Hi everybody, I have been struggling with this weeks readings, not so much from the richness they provide but from the fact that we will be celebrating the Sacrament of Holy Communion this Sunday and I wasn't sure how I was going to carry that celebration through to the readings. Interesting comments once again. Thanks to all of you for that. But how would you relate this Gospel reading to the celebration of Communion? Interested in your thoughts on this. God bless you all. Rev. Tim, South central Ontario, Canada.
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 13:05:26
I'm going fishing this Sunday, as well. However, I believe it was OLAS that gave me this idea. I remember my first fishing experiences--although they were the rod and reel type. However, I did manage to pull up a lot of junk, since I was casting out in the right places. Were those nets filled with trash and twigs and pebbles? Are our lives filled with things we hang onto that we need to release? Like twigs, are we easily swayed and weak? Are weighed down by the rocks and pebbles that collect in our nets? What do we need to "drop" that we might be free to follow Jesus immediately? Whatcha think?? I know this is taking liberty with the scholarship of the scripture. I think there is a difference between a scholarly teaching and a meditation. lp in CO
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 13:10:07
Well, my computer just kicked me off line! Hmmm. Anyway, I think it was OLAS that talked about the contents of the nets. That preaches. Could James and John have picked up trash, pebbles and twigs. Where they being deceived by what they thought were fish? What do we hang onto? What baggage do we have? Where are our point of immaturity? What weighs us down that we must drop if we are to follow Jesus immediately? Am approaching this from a meditation and do clarify to my congregation the difference between a scholarly lesson on the scripture and a meditation. Whatcha think?
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 13:53:36
Rev Tim asked: "But how would you relate this Gospel reading to the celebration of Communion? Interested in your thoughts on this."
Tim ... check out one of those two sermons I posted the URL's too... the second one I think on the Markan version of this story... I related becoming "Fishers of Men" to our congregational mission statement "Gathering All People Around God's Table" ... give it a try.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 17:04:38
Eric in KS
I like how you think (regarding repentance). Perhaps one of the duties of the church is to teach people what words mean sometimes.
Peace, JG in WI
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 18:26:52
B Rock in HI:
Here is the significance of Zebulun and Naphtali. This was the area occupied by some of Jacob's people who were considered least important among the tribes of Israel. Jesus went to preach to those who were on the fringe of society. The tie in? Fishermen were also not high on the society list, yet he called four of them to be his disciples and eventual leaders of the church. Jesus lifts up the lowly. PH in OH
Date: 25 Jan 2002
Time: 22:20:10
Here's my "two bob's" worth (Old Australian saying)on the word repent. I was led to understand, and my own research has assisted me to believe that both the words translated "repent" in the English version of the scriptures refers to a process of re-thinking. That it refers to the same root as "pensive" meaning to think about deeply, or to contemplate. The actual meaning of the Hebrew and the Greek is difficult to ascertain, but this was the best the English translators could arrive at.
To repent, effectively means to become conscious of sinfulness (error in judgement), and to not only feel sorrow, but to also consider positive means of reversing the process, which caused such an experience. I believe the basic problem with words, is that we use single words to try and convey an experience, or process, which often translates into an "event" or singular or even simple task.
When John calls the Jews to "repent", it is a call to rethink, reconsider, realign their attitude and particular stance, on a whole range of religious doctrine and practice. For a nation, and for people, who believed that they were divinely chosen, and divinely righteous, by birth, this was a radical and very confronting message.
Repentance is and can only be associated with a desire to know the truth, and to do better.
A very difficult concept, wrapped up in a single word. Shall we try the same thing with the word "love"???
Just some different bait, from a fellow fisherperson!
Keep up the good stuff people. Regards,
KGB
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 05:56:57
It has been a while... No longer at Fort Belvoir, I sit in the Middle East and provide ministry and fish for souls as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. Four months ago, some of us had the awful task of recovery operations at the Pentagon. As I read this text, I found a new focus in the last verse. Jesus went throughout, "teaching, proclaiming the good news, curing EVERY disease and EVERY sickness among the people." I pondered that last phrase and wished that I had the ability to fix EVERY sickness, undo the great damage, and heal the many hurts in peoples' lives after Sept 11. Unable to do all that Jesus did does not make me incapable, powerless, or paralyzed. I CAN proclaim the good news to someone, if only a handful at a time. I CAN heal the broken-hearted, the lonely, the hurting with care, visitation, and love. Jesus comes to EACH of us and empowers us to do, love, care, teach, encourage wherever and whenever we can. ARMY CHAPLAIN E, deployed
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 07:10:16
In response to the deathly conformity that Herod commands, the "peace" (the peace of the graveyard) that he offers, Jesus inaugurates a new movement of image-ination and hope. "The kingdom is at hand . . ." It is as near as the fledgling community being gathered and shaped on the northern shores of Lake Galilee. This community is being born among common laborers, outcasts, the angry, the scared, those seemingly without a voice (at least in Herod's realm!). Roman tax collectors will sit at table with Zealots, ever-contentious brothers will share in mission together, women will find a new place in a new order and their faith will often startle and humble the others. The "peace" promised in the new community will free those enslaved in relentless structures of the everyday, it will open eyes and ears and hearts long-closed, it will lift spirits and enfuse each one with a renewed sense of value and purpose. The identities, gifts, and purpose in the life of each will not be rejected but instead affirmed, summoned, and led into greater depth and richness. The new community will live more deeply and grow more fully in the humanizing work of mutual responsibility and respect (Vincent Harding). It will be life-giving rather than life-taking. There in the north it will grow quietly at first, a servant community initially "hidden in the shadow of God's hand", a polished arrow in the divine quiver of God's intention. Perhaps Andrew and Peter have already met Jesus along the Jordan, as John's Gospel indicates. Perhaps their own withdrawal back to life as usual, in despair and anguish over John's death, is interrupted by the light dawning anew. John's divine poetry and the Word made flesh which they have already witnessed ("Come and See") are very much alive, as are they.
PastorScott in PA
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 07:11:59
Thanks Eric, I will have a look. Also, thanks for the "text week" site. That will be useful indeed. Rev. Tim
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 07:20:51
Zeb response: This is something I wrote, I don't know if it will be in the final version but it is how I se Zeb. There is a second call here. The call of Zebedee. There is no note of any protest by him. He lost two workers, two men to help support the family. He is called by God to rearrange his life to accommodate God’s calling of another. Many are called to this lesser visible role. In Seminary there were some who could not follow that call. Some find the sharing of a spouse with so many hard and they too can not see how God is working in them. Many Divorce their partners I am blessed by Tom’s embracing of his very different call to ministry. Nancy-Wi
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 10:09:41
Coming in late on the discussion. But a thought for Toni in WV about how last week's reading from John about Andrew introducing Simon to Jesus, can sit alongside this week's reading about both brothers being called together from their nets. Archbishop Temple suggests, along with others, that they already knew of Jesus and that on the first occasion, when Simon met Jesus through Andrew, Jesus gave him his new, significant name of 'the Rock'. On this next occasion, when they were even more informed about Jesus, both brothers were called to this greater commitment. It's both logical and believable.
MED in Scotland
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 11:00:30
Nancy -
Hahaha! When I figure out how NOT to itinerate, I'll let you know! There are some folks who are able to stay within a particular area. They must have special needs. :o)
Sally
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 11:30:51
Thank you, everyone, for the great discussion! I even got some good illustrations out of it. Thank you, Jan, for bringing up "make," and to Eric for answering.
Sally in gA
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 11:31:10
Thank you, everyone, for the great discussion! I even got some good illustrations out of it. Thank you, Jan, for bringing up "make," and to Eric for answering.
Sally in gA
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 13:54:31
I know this is totally off the subject but, I have been looking for quite some time for a site for weekly prayer of confessions to print in our church bulletins. Does anyone know where or if there is even such a site. It would be appreciated greatly. PD in CNY
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 15:29:08
Please join me in a spirit of levity. Not to laugh at any one individual but lets all laugh at ourselves: looking for canned prayers of confession just struck my funny bone. Does it seem to anyone else that perhaps that is a little out of sync with soul searching candor?
not that it is anything like self flaggalation or maybe this heavy handed means of indoctrination is from that same kind of tradition. Oh, laugh with me, I know nothing of the particulars, I was just offering a little self examination for our traditions isn't that part of the point of prayers of confession?
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 16:21:24
Eric,
Thanks for the information on "make." I have my Greek New Testament, but can no longer discern most of the words in it after 25 years . . .
Also, thanks to the Army Chaplain, with your permission, I will use your story for the end of my sermon this week.
I have managed to come down with a horrible stomach virus and won't be at church tomorrow. My sixteen year old son, the actor, will read my sermon for me, so some things I might have said are being revised . . .
RevJan
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 17:54:23
In response to the post by army chaplain e deployed, first of all, know that my thoughts and prayers are with you in your ministry. I know how hard it must have been in the recovery operation at the pentegon. I understand your comme3nts about how Jesus, healed every disease and every sickness whereever he went. I understand your lament about our inabilities to do that. And it is hard I to, often ponder about that. One thing I constantly remind myself was about Jesus' divinity and the powers that he had that we will never be able to because of our humanity. Blessings to you my friend. E in Nebraska
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 17:54:32
In response to the post by army chaplain e deployed, first of all, know that my thoughts and prayers are with you in your ministry. I know how hard it must have been in the recovery operation at the pentegon. I understand your comme3nts about how Jesus, healed every disease and every sickness whereever he went. I understand your lament about our inabilities to do that. And it is hard I to, often ponder about that. One thing I constantly remind myself was about Jesus' divinity and the powers that he had that we will never be able to because of our humanity. Blessings to you my friend. E in Nebraska
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 17:56:49
There was a post earlier on that was thinking along the same lines as I was. What about Zebedee, the one who was left behind. What about those of us who are called to stay and mend the nets, and those who are called to the so called unglamorous type of ministries. May try part of it from Zebedee's perspective in first person E in Nebraska
Date: 26 Jan 2002
Time: 18:08:25
David in WV, maybe this is to late for you, but I defianytly agree with you. Why wasn't Zebedee called. My point is that yes he was called but not the same way has his sons. He was called to mend nets, perhaps tend for his family. Just some comments.
Date: 27 Jan 2002
Time: 03:11:31
I have read a number of the postings on fishing. Some good analogies, illustrations. I have fished the coast of Massachusetts, rivers, lakes of Minnesota, and Gulf waters off Florida. I have gigged, fly fished, trolled, and cast bait for fish. I have caught little fish and a few big ones. I have kept and eaten some, thrown others back. I have fooled them with fake bait, snagged 'em with live, wiggly bait. I have even caught one with my bare hands. I have caught stupid fish that bite at anything. And occasionally, the elusive, wise fish that took hours to catch. In all that fishing, I did it for sport, for fun, for enjoyment, for thrill. It is not my livelihood. I will never make a living doing it. It is not a necessity. Yet, in my preaching, prayer, visitation, care the Holy Spirit has drawn men, women, children, soldiers, civilians to the cross of Christ. No trickery, no artificial bait, no spearing, no hooking...simply the marvelous net of the Gospel drawing the hearer to Christ, quietly, slowly, patiently ever closer. I simply let the net down and trust God's guidance and direction. Just a thot. ARMY CHAPLAIN E
Date: 27 Jan 2002
Time: 05:25:22
"Fisherperson" is rediculous. "Fishers" is the term coined and used by the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting corporation -our national public radio system). As the partner of a fisherman, I can tell you that NOBODY who works in the East Coast fisheries calls themselves anything other than "Fisherman".
And an "angler" is not a fisherman" just as a "fisherman" is not an angler. Abandoning your rod and reel to follow JC is no sacrifice. Abandoning your life on the boat is.
Date: 27 Jan 2002
Time: 05:28:36
Oh, and unlike "anglers", "fishermen" don't use bait. They just lower the nets. There's a whole sermon right there.