Interesting that John's arrest is the signal for Jesus to start his ministry. Perhaps this is a factor is John's question, "Are you the one who is to come. . .;?" He had not witnessed any of Jesus' ministry himself. I tend to think of the baby Jesus as being born in Bethlehem and as a young man growing up in Nazareth and working there as an adult, but I do not think of the adult Jesus, active in his ministry, as having a home. I think of him as an itinerant preacher. Sleeping in the homes of friends or in the outdoors, eating whatever came his way . . .from nature or from the generosity of his listeners and supporters, yet this verse states that he made his home in Capernaum. Why Capernaum? Was there anything special about it that would cause the teacher of a new way to be drawn to make his home there?
JoyinX@aol.com
Dear Friends,
My congregations will hear this text read the Sunday of their "annual meetings." The call to "follow" Jesus and the invitation to learn how to "fish for people" from Jesus is certainly approapriate. But to follow him where - in our day and in our particular context? This is still a to discern and a challenge to articulate.
Grace and Peace, Jerry in MN
This Sunday will be the start of a 5-week Stewardship Campaign in my church. What better way than to hear the call to "Follow Me" -- dedicate time, talent, service, livelyhood to following the Way, Truth, Life. I like the question asked above: follow where? Where is Jesus going today? How is he involved in the needs of the sick? the widow? the poor? the imprisoned? How is Jesus involved today in the lives of the typical pew sitter in a "mainline" denomination like mine? Most of us may believe Jesus/God may at work in the lives of the "less advantaged" and that we are the agents Jesus NEEDS. We give $ God needs. What is Jesus calling us to leave behind? We typically ask for a commitment to a tithe during a stewardship campaign, but probably are blessed to receive in commitments 1% or 2% of people who tithe and the rest give 1% or 2% of their income -- if at all. What are we called to leave behind? I know it is a stretch to use this as a stewardship text, but I'd nevertheless like some responses. MAR in TX
This Sunday will be the start of a 5-week Stewardship Campaign in my church. What better way than to hear the call to "Follow Me" -- dedicate time, talent, service, livelyhood to following the Way, Truth, Life. I like the question asked above: follow where? Where is Jesus going today? How is he involved in the needs of the sick? the widow? the poor? the imprisoned? How is Jesus involved today in the lives of the typical pew sitter in a "mainline" denomination like mine? Most of us may believe Jesus/God may at work in the lives of the "less advantaged" and that we are the agents Jesus NEEDS. We give $ God needs. What is Jesus calling us to leave behind? We typically ask for a commitment to a tithe during a stewardship campaign, but probably are blessed to receive in commitments 1% or 2% of people who tithe and the rest give 1% or 2% of their income -- if at all. What are we called to leave behind? I know it is a stretch to use this as a stewardship text, but I'd nevertheless like some responses. MAR in TX
Capernaum was a bustling fishing village ... not huge, but a center of commerce for the region. "Blue collar" community. And doesn't the new archeological research show a fairly major metropolitan area nearby? I forget the name of the city -- it was featured on that PBS series recently. Kay
I am intrigued with the notion of repentance here. Jesus call to repentance seems to have a different connotation from that in John's ministry which he was coming to fulfill. John's call appeared to be one of "Hell fire and brimstone." But in this passage repentance seems to be more connected to its original meaning of "a change of mind." All around this verse there is a calling to the light. There are a number of changes from an "old state to a new one. John's ministry to Jesus' ministry, people in darkness seeing a great light, fishermen to fisher's of people. So what's my point? Mainly that this call to repentance is not so much of saying "your bad, your bad, your bad!!!, so you must change right now or go to Hell!" Rather this is a call to refocus. John's ministry was not bad, but a new message had to come, Living in Galilee was not bad, but light still needed to come. Supporting a family through fishing was not bad, but there was a greater vocation that their present vocation actually prepared them for. It's human nature to get overly focussed in one direction to a fault. The invitation here is to recognize those areas of our lives that are sapping our energy to love and to create, and to then refocus or "change our minds" in such a way to let the glory of God that is within us shine.
I am intrigued with the notion of repentance here. Jesus call to repentance seems to have a different connotation from that in John's ministry which he was coming to fulfill. John's call appeared to be one of "Hell fire and brimstone." But in this passage repentance seems to be more connected to its original meaning of "a change of mind." All around this verse there is a calling to the light. There are a number of changes from an "old state to a new one. John's ministry to Jesus' ministry, people in darkness seeing a great light, fishermen to fisher's of people. So what's my point? Mainly that this call to repentance is not so much of saying "your bad, your bad, your bad!!!, so you must change right now or go to Hell!" Rather this is a call to refocus. John's ministry was not bad, but a new message had to come, Living in Galilee was not bad, but light still needed to come. Supporting a family through fishing was not bad, but there was a greater vocation that their present vocation actually prepared them for. It's human nature to get overly focussed in one direction to a fault. The invitation here is to recognize those areas of our lives that are sapping our energy to love and to create, and to then refocus or "change our minds" in such a way to let the glory of God that is within us shine.
Steve - Atlanta
In regards to my last statement, what do some of you think of this notion of repentance? I would like to develop this idea more. Do any of you out there have other ideas or possibly some supporting resources?
I don't see any reason to believe that the repentance preached by John is any different than the repentance preached by Jesus.
Jesus spoke of a place of punishment (describing it as outer darkness) in (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30) but I'm sure that this is dismissed by many.
I think Jesus' call to repentance is surely worthy of preaching but won't sit well with many clergy who are more interested in preaching to itching ears.
Christ's call to repentance is based in love but not love as defined by many in the pulpit. Christ's love is steeped in elements of self-sacrifice. The love preached by many today costs nothing except maybe truth.
Preaching about hell will cost quite a bit.
Tryon Edwards has said that Hell is about learning the truth too late. We ought to be about preaching the truth early and often. But that takes courage and stick-to-it-iveness that many no longer have.
Rick in Va
On the differences between Jesus and John's call for repentance-- one of the things I find interesting about the Disciple Bible Study from the UMC publishing House addresses this issue. As I understand it, john asked us to repent to get ready for the kingdom of God and Jesus asks us to repent (and we are able to) because the kingdom of God has come near. We are able to repent because of the grace of Christ. In some ways, it is the difference between what we emphasize at Advent and what we proclaim during Epiphany.
Joseph in SC
To Rick in VA and parrjo---thanks for the encouraging words. It really lifted my spirits. My youth group will grow and be strong. I appreciate you all! Brian in Texas pastorbrianc@hotmail.com
MAR in Tex,
Your question "Where is Jesus going today?" really caught my imagination. Especially if we remember that repentance has direction to it, literally meaning to turn back to the right way.
What is the Microsoft tag line? "Where do you want to go today?" If I think about it, the best trips I have ever taken had something to do with who I travelled with.
I ended up in Orlando last spring at a meeting, while my family (including some little folks) were in Pennsylvania. I went to Disney World, but I'll tell you, I didn't enjoy it as much as I could have if I had been able to bring some special people along.
Where does Jesus want me to go today? It doesn't much matter, as long as it's with him!
SS in PA
I am going to focus my sermon around Jesus' statement of, "Follow Me" and how the four men "immediately" followed. I have been reading Bonhoeffer's "Cost of Discipleship" and how he illustrates that this command of Jesus was obeyed with "single minded obedience." Jesus didn't offer anything, he didn't explain anything, he wasn't concerned with their faith or whether or not they believed in him--he simply said, "Follow Me" and they came. It was the Call that mattered.
If anyone has any really good illustrations that follow on those lines, I would be one desperate preacher who would be greatly appreciative. TIM in FL
For Tim in FL, Here's Fred Beuchner's approach to the "follow me" aspect of call to service in Christ's name. It's taken from "Wishful Thinking" (Harper & Row,1973)
"The first ministers were the twelve disciples. There is no evidence that Jesus chose them because they were brighter or nicer than other people. In fact the New Testament record suggests that they were continually missing the point, jockeying for position and, when the chips were down, interested in nothing so much as saving their own skins. Their sole qualification seems to have been their initial willingness to rise to their feet when Jesus said, "Follow me." As St. Paul put it later, "God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, god chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong." (1 Cor 1:27). When Jesus sent the twelve out into the world, his instructions wer simple. He told them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal, with the implication that to do eithre right was in effect to do both. Fortunately for the world in general and the church in particular, the ability to do them is not dependent on either moral character or IQ. To do them in the name of Christ is to be a minister. In the name of Christ not to do them is to be a bad joke." (Beuchner)
Last week (January 17) the Gospel lesson (John 1:29-43 tells of John the Baptizer telling his disciples twice "behold the Lamb of God." After the second time, Andrew and an unnamed disciple turn and follow Jesus. Then Andrew brings his brother Simon Peter to Jesus, who declares that he is now "Rock." This week, John the Baptizer is in prison. Jesus is walking by the Sea of Galilee, sees two brothers, Simon, who is already called Peter, and Andrew his brother. They are casting a net into the sea for they were fishermen. Then Jesus says to them, "Follow me, and I will make you fish for people." How do we get this one past those who are not sleeping in their pews, during the scripture reading? Are we dealing with differences between Matthew's and John's perspectives on both John the Baptizer and Peter? How explain it to that 13 year old confirmand who is just looking for such differences, so he can disregard God's wprd entirely? Just wondering, R.J. in ND
RJ in ND The problem your 13 yr old will be having is one that many of our young, bright, information filled people will have. In generations past when we were taught lessons from Scripture we just accepted them as fact. Well, they should still be accepted as fact, as indeed the Scripture is God's word. However, this generation will want to take a step further in study. Point out to him that each gospel writer painted a portrait of Jesus in his own way. Each writer was different, and was writing to different groups of people, and from somewhat different perspectives. The Bible is a "cool" book. Give the young people the truth, help them understand for themselves, and pray the Holy Spirit's guiding hand. revjerry
Revjerry,
I believe you've nailed it. Perspective is key. Differing perspectives does not diminish or deny the existence or the impact of truth and should not be used as an excuse to attempt to do so.
Try this:
Find a coffee mug with a handle. Holding the cup by the handle (with the handle pointing directly back to yourself such that anyone you're facing cannot see the handle), ask one of the children opposite you to describe the coffee mug, detailing what it is that child sees.
Now flip the coffee mug around such that the handle is facing away from yourself and toward one of the children. Ask a different child to now describe the coffee mug as he/she sees it. The two descriptions may very well sound contradicting but in fact both are describing the very same coffee mug.
This is a simple yet effective way to visually/physically teach our children that apparent contradictions in God's Word can easily be explained or rationalized away.
Hope this helps,
Rick in Va
revjerry, I respectfully disagree that it is a problem for that 13 year old to question these passages. I Thess 5:21 states, "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." I believe it is a blessing that this generation feels more free to ask these questions - not out of unfaithfulness, but in a quest for the truth. I would be more concerned with someone that felt uncomfortable with the obvious tension between these passages, and remained silent. We lose prime opportunities to teach if we discourage challenges from our people. I strongly encourage my members to not blindly accept what I say and preach, but to actively participate in the discernment of God's truth. It keeps me "on my toes," and causes me to study more intently. To be honest, I will do further study on the correlation between these two verses myself.
May God bless you in all you do.
revjerry, I respectfully disagree that it is a problem for that 13 year old to question this passage. I Thess 5:21 states, "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." I would be more concerned with someone who recognized the conflicts between these two accounts and remained silent. We miss prime teaching opportunities when we squelch honest and faithful debate and discussion. I encourage my people to not blindly accept everything I say and preach, but to challenge me at points with which they are uncomfortable. It serves to keep me 'on my toes' and to approach my own studies more intentionally - and I have had to rethink some of my previous interpretations. I also balance that with the teaching that scripture is God's Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth.
May God continue to bless you in all you do.
Jim in AL
I also think we, as disciples, experience Jesus' call at different times in our lives. Perhaps when we become Christians at the beginning we feel Christ's call to be his followers. But this week he may come by and ask me to go someplace with him. "Come and follow me" this afternoon, he asks me. If I'm wise, I, too, may drop my nets and enlist in whatever business he wants me to undertake with him. --Tim in Deep River
RJ in ND and joyinX. Capernum, Bathsaida and the entrance of the Jordan River into the Sea of Galilee are all located short walks from each other. This beginning place of Jesus ministry is also the closing place for John's ministry. Andrew and Peter were from Bathsaida, Jesus was making his home in Capernum, and John was preaching, baptizing and calling to repentance along the Jordan River, It seems apparent that Andrew hears John point people to Jesus, (referring back to Jesus baptism - which he doesn't tell of in detail but assumes as common knowledge in the church) and Andrew goes the short distance to the boat, and brings Peter to Jesus. I would guess that following John was part - time, it was fit into the family fishing business. Matthew expands the narrative with Jesus calling out to Andrew and Peter, with an invitation to a whole new way of life. Come, follow me -- I'll make you fish for people! And they followed him, immediately. James and John also are called in a similar fashion, not only do they follow him, they leave their father with the nets to mend. Andrew, Peter, and the others spend 3 years learning just how involved that simple invitation to follow Jesus could be. From popularity, to outcasts, miracle workers to fleeing the crucifixion until most of them laid down their lives for their faith. Geographically, Capernaum was a crossroads. The main North/South Route and the main East/West routes intersected the Capernaum, This mean that it was a cosmopolitan city with a large Roman military contingent. The interaction of several cultures would have taken place in Capernum and it was a perfect place for Jesus to launch his ministry. JN in Dawson, MN
Steve in Alanta -- perhaps this will help talking about repentance as a process or change of direction. Repentance means that I own responsibility for my part in what was unsatisfactory behavior. I accept responsibility for my part in what is and what will be new behavior. Repentance is owning responsibility for what was, accepting responsibility for what is, and acting responsibly now. It is responsible action. It is not a matter of punishing ourselves for past mistakes, hating ourselves for past failures, and depressing ourselves with feelings of worthlessness. Repentance is finishing the unfinished business of my past and choosing to live in new ways that will not repeat old unsatisfactory situations. In the full Christian meaning of the Word, repentance is a process. It is a thawing out of rigid lifestyles into a flowing, moving, growing, repenting process.
Acts 3: 19 "Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Acts 11: 18 And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
Acts 17: 30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent, :31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead. "
Acts 26: 20 but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance. JN in Dawson, MN
Bible Illustrator for Windows, Ver 1.0g Parsons, 1990-1997
Following Jesus and helping others to see a path to Him; these are so central to our faith....
When I was in seminary I happened upon a group talking about the "e" word. I naievely thought the "e" word was "evil". Not. They meant "evangelism". Some refer to our denomination as the "frozen chosen." Hence the extreme discomfort with evangelism. Many of us who came to faith did not do so through the knock on our door. In fact, that knock often drove us away from faith. How in this frozen world can we lead others, light the path, offer the Christ?
This is also the Sunday of our annual meeting (having carefully avoided SB Sunday!) -- and I am so aware of our need to enter into a deeper spirituality, rather than get worked up over budgets and individual agenda. Somehow, I am feeling this deeper spirituality has to do with getting worked up over the "e" word! The Good News is still THE Good News....
HW in HI
FOr MAR in TX,
I think this is a wonderful opportunity for stewardship! Our Baptism says we are followers of Jesus. But none of are really very good followers. We put ourselves before our neighbors, fight for parking spaces, eat rich food while others starve, etc. But Jesus says, "Follow Me!". And we've said yes. Imperfectly, but yes. Now is the time to say Yes with a bit more conviction. After all, what have you done for Him lately? God said Yes to us 2,000 years ago when he entered into our world, now is a good time for us to say Yes and mean it....
Something like that. Anyway, go for it!
HW in HI
Jn in Dawson MN,
Excellent points and references... Thanks!
Rick in Va
Dawson, MN -- Thanks for your contribution. Especially the part about punishing ourselves or depressing ourselves with feelings of worthlessness. It seems to me that many have gotten too much of "drawing a line in the sand" and not enough of the compassion of Christ. As I consider the context of this call to repent, it seems that Jesus is focussing on the opportunities available more than on expounding upon the doctrine of Hell.
With all due respect to Rick in Va, I just don't see a sermon on Hell coming from this passage. Repentance here is not because "In three days God will destroy Ninevah," rather it is repent because the Kingdom of Heaven (the God of hope, truth, love and possibility) is here!
Steve in Atlanta
When your 13 year old asks how the bible can be true when it gives contradictory versions of the same event, you may have to make the distinction between "historical truth" and "theological truth". I know that this opens up a whole new bag of worms, but I don't know any other way to address these differences without damaging my integrity and seriously underestimating the intelligence of the congregation. At thirteen the distinction may not be easy to discern, but it may be just the segue I need to draw him/her a little deeper into the Word.
I preached about the call of Simon coming through Andrew last Sunday. I doubt very seriously that my people are going to miss the contradiction. I am considering addressing the question directly in the sermon, but I am a little afraid that I might lead some to devalue the "truth" of scripture if they are not listening carefully.
Sermons really are a collaberative endevour aren't they? We can have some control in how we craft the words, but once they leave our lips the hearers can interpret them in many ways.
Any advice about how to avoid the pit?
SS in PA
It was October 1989. Bruce had asked me to take part in a local mission work team to do home repair. I had not participated in this "servant oriented" worship before and truly did not know what to expect; but Bruce was a good friend, and I needed a good friend, so I went.
When we arrived at the work site, I was overwhelmed by the level of need. The home was lived in by a 102 year old woman and her 82 year old daughter. Neither was in good health; yet, their exuberance for life and love for God was like the excitement of children. Although their spirits were bright, their home was not. They were either unable or unwilling to discard their rubbish. (I did not understand this behavior at the time. I do understand now.) Thus, their home was full of what only can be described as garbage. Hundreds of old newspapers, scores of out-dated magazines, empty milk containers, cereal boxes, worn clothing, and a myriad of other articles filled every niche and cranny of their home. From floor to ceiling, all one could see was refuse. The home had recently been flooded and now all of this material was rotting.
And I think just to maximize this olfactory delight, when we arrived they were cooking collard greens. Now I'm not sure if many of you have ever cooked up a big mess of collards. My mother thought there was nothing so right and so healthy as collards at dinner time. And though I love collards, the smell of those things on a sticky hot summer day is just about overwhelming.
You mix this in with a house-full of rotting garbage… well, you get the picture. I'm not sure I have ever smelled anything as bad.
Worse, before the flood, Ms. Baker, had owned some chickens. She told us, "Them waters came on up and I don't know where them chickens got to. You know I felt badly for her, a poor woman who had lost the source much of her food. Yet, as we cleaned the area in order to work on and repair the house, I began to feel less and less empathy for her. For you see, I kept finding where them chickens got to …
There in the rubbish, were the flat carcasses of drowned chickens.
It was certainly not a very appealing work environment. The stench was almost unbearable. As we began to attempt to clean the house and repair a very rotten porch, a remarkable event occurred. I was working on the porch when Ms. Baker, the mother, hobbled out to watch the work progress. As she stood there, framed by her rotten doorway, with the massive pile of filth as her backdrop, suddenly, I was overwhelmed. For there in front of me, stood Jesus. There, in the body of this frail and broken women, stood Christ. There, in the midst of the stench, and the refuse, and the dirt, the light of God's Kingdom shone around me and Jesus called to me. He called to me to come and find him and minister to him, and he would minister to me. He beckoned to me to come and meet him in the lives and the hurts and the joys of those which we might rather forget. He called me to go with him to the places that society had forgotten. He promised that if I would place my hand in his, that he would go with me, and that together, we would enter the Kingdom.
For that's how it is with God, always coming, always calling, always beckoning, always present. Fishing boats and wind swept seas … and I might have even made a good fisherman.
Shalom my friends,
Nail-Bender in NC
SS in PA,
I can understand concerns about damaging your integrity and/or underestimating the intelligence of your parishioners. Valid concerns in a worldly sort of way but in my view somewhat self-centered, respectfully.
I would suggest, possibly wrongly, that there is heirarchy in integrity. By that I mean that I place the integrity of God's Word above my own integrity. I cannot be ashamed about the Gospel, neither should I be concerned about being ashamed about His Word. My concern is that being worried about my integrity when proclaiming His Word smacks too much of the kind of pride we're to avoid.
As far as being concerned about the intelligence of your parishioners when juxtaposed with an apparent contradiction of Scripture. Well, are we not talking here weekly about the most irrational of ideas anyway? A God who allows the murdering of His Son for the atonement of sin that separates us from God who loves us so much. How do we preach that without insulting our intelligence?
I respectfully but adamently believe that concerns about our integrity when all we're doing is recounting or reading His Word is... well... pastoral cowardice. Either it's God's Word or it isn't. I believe this contradiction is one more easily dealt with. Some already have right here in DPS.
I think these concerns are symptomatic of those who walk around without their spiritual armor and become easy prey for those spiritual powers that oppose the proclamation of the Gospel. How else would we describe a fear a pastor/preacher would have to preach the Word?
Is that harsh? I'm afraid it is. Is it true? I wish I could prove that it isn't. I don't enjoy making these statements. I don't know SS in PA at all and so maybe I've misunderstood him/her. I honestly hope so. But if I have not, someone, somwhere, sometime, ought to speak out against this kind of fear. The pulpit today is in need of those who are not lukewarm or cold about the gospel or it's procamation. Some, I hope most, are neither and I thank God for that.
Let's not worry about our integrity, or about the intelligence of those in the pews. Let us instead be concerned for their souls. Let us preach God's Word. For Christ's sake!
Rick in Va
I agree with your thinking Steve in Atlanta, but if I may, I would like to rephrase what you are saying. John the Baptist called people to repentance because judgement was coming. Jesus called people to repentance because "the kingdom of heaven has come near." (NRSV) Seems John was expecting the Messiah to bring judgement upon the wicked when he came.
What I thought was interesting was how the passage from John that we used last week showed John the Baptist having a change of heart when the Messiah was revealed to him. He then began proclaiming the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
It does seem that John's call to repent was more a call to escape the coming punishment while Jesus' call to repentance was to enable a person to experience the kingdom of heaven and to participate in it. Quite a contrast.
Brandon in CA
We, too, are holding an annual congregational meeting this Sunday. I thought I would talk about this passage in light of the "e" word (as someone previously has called it!). My meditation on this passage has been stumbled by the way I have perceived the song "I will make you fishers of men" from my early childhood days in Sunday School. As a child, I perceived that being a fisherman required, baiting a "hook", teasing the fish, then snagging it in to make a catch. I wonder how many people outside our church walls consider evangelism in this manner - sound brutal and deceptive (maybe some churches operate in this manner).
oops, submitted the form without finishing - but that type of fishing is not the type of the Bible and certainly not the type Jesus calls us to - maybe there's something about "casting nets" that holds a key to evangelism...a least a little more honestly - I don't know. Anyone have any thoughts? or am I way off base? Ross from Lake Arrowhead
Is there any chance that Peter had to be called twice? Once just after Andrew made his introduction, and once when the miracle of the two boats occurred? [Luke 5:1-11] If so, Peter's call would be more like the call(s) most of us receive -- loving, but multiple. Andy in DE
In over 25 years of pastoring churches and preaching every Sunday, I have observed that MOST of the time people in the church hear things in my sermons that I didn't think I was saying. SS in PA, I think you are exactly right about that. However, it's also been my observation that God intends it that way. Sure, some of the time people get very wrong-headed notions of Christian truth. But more often, I think, God takes our humble words (which often just aren't very clear) and uses them to speak particular words to people who need to hear them. How else can you explain it when different folks, in completely different circumstances, tell you that something you said was just what they needed to hear? I try to trust that God will use the words of my mouth however he will. I think it's a good idea to give up ownership of those words as soon as they leave my mouth. Of course that's not an excuse for sloppy preaching. But it helps me let go of my need to be in control.
I guess, from a preacher's point of view, that's what it's like to drop your nets and follow Jesus. My natural tendency is to doggedly persist in making my points and dragging people into the kingdom one by one. I want to be successful at what I do, and on my own terms. But Jesus wants me just to put that stuff aside and follow him. He knows better than I do how to "catch fish." So just tell the story the best you can. Let the love of Christ in your heart shine through. Let the Holy Spirit open people's hearts to hear what they will. It'll be OK! -- Tim in Deep River
Nailbender -- I saw Gwendolyn Parker on CSPAN/BookTV 2 weekends ago discussing her new book, Trespassing: My Sojurn into the Halls of Privelege. Ms Parker is a Black woman who "made it big" like her elders wanted her to... she became a high powered lawyer in an elite big city firm. When she caught the brass ring she was disillusioned because it wasn't HER brass ring.
The BookTV discussion intrigued me so much I have sent for the book thru our friends at amazon.com. She stated that since she and one other man were the only two people of color at the firm (and I am paraphrasing greatly here) they were not a threat -- but the interesting thing was that ANOTHER sub-class developed in the vacuum. This sub-class was made up of "white" ethnics, the 2nd or 3rd generation poles, czechs, irish, german, etc., those who don't have "III" or "IV" after their name, who were also the first in their extended family to "make it big."
In Ms Parker's comment that it is her experience that once a sub-class moves up or on, another takes its place, I was given an amazing revelation. Jesus calls those who follow him to be the sub-class, so no one ever again has to feel and experience that rejection and negation. We are to be the servants of all, willingly going to the "lowest place".
And as a spiritual friend stated as we unpacked this revelation, the more diverse this volunteer sub-class the farther away we get from ever again having a visual definition of subclass. It looks like all of us.
Preacherlady
Oh! Oh! I love to read what several of you are saying about annual meetings and stewardship campaigns... you especially won't want to miss the wonderful tie the Gospel makes with the Isaiah text. The lectionary-makers stop the prophet just before the famous "for unto us a child is born..." text, but not before he has spoken great words of promise to an otherwise broken and accursed people. From out of Galilee (the region of Zebulun and Naphtali, and Issachar) will come one of whom it will be proclaimed: "for ... the rod of their oppressor, you have broken as on the day of Midian." Remember Midian! Gideon, in Judges 7:15-25, defeated an overwhelming army of Midianites with what: a mere token of an army. Remember how the Lord insisted that he send the vast majority of the Israelites home? They wouldn't be needed, because the Lord is the One by whom the work would be done. Isaiah points to that fact dramatically and says, by similar miraculous circumstances God's will shall be accomplished. By surprise. By what might otherwise be considered an outlandishly outnumbered, out-equipped, band of folks -- fishermen! Absurd! -- who have what: the Lord as their strength and promise. Yes, speak of mission, speak of stewardship, and speak too of miraculous victories at the hands of people of faith long, and not so long, ago. You may be few in number, you may bring nothing but fishing nets and old boats as your tools, but the Lord has worked mightily -- mightily! -- through such folks as sit in your pews. Good news! Preach boldly! Dick in St. Louis
Hi, folks. I have just copied out on my printer at least 7 (that holy numer) of your "comments". They are all especially insightful this week. Every once in a while you get a week like this. (Loved the one about "being called twice" and the "refocus" one and the story of the two old ladies. Great stuff.)
Can't add anything. Am recuperating from some surgery and so not up to parr this week. Just a couple general ideas that I keep pondering:
During these winter months, when it's difficult to get to church, I marvel at how many people are present. They do not need "hell, fire and brimstone," they are like Jesus' disciples...they ARE Jesus' disciples. The Biblical accounts of Jesus' "preaching" to his own disciples...perhaps we should take more note of them. Especially the one as reported by John during the Last Supper. How poignantly Jesus tells his disciples He loves them. We "ancient unreformed churches" (Coptic, Byzantine, Roman) of course, believe with a persistent passion that our Sunday Liturgy is the Last Supper "suspended in its timelessness" so that "we are there." ...the Sacred Mysteries. So it is unbecoming... ("non decet")...to bang on pulpits at such a sacred, mystical occasion.
Secondly, I am getting a lot of inspiration from chatting in "Christian" (read "evangelical") chat rooms. Evangelicals hold that they are already saved. Although I cannot accept that Biblically (especially in light of such passages as Jesus words about the last Judgement in Matthew 25,) I am quite taken by evangelicals conviction that Jesus loves them so much that they are "already saved." This results in a deep peace and a close friendship with the God who loves them that much. I am discussinng this with my congregation more and more (athough I am not sure that they haven't had this conviction themselves all their lives, especialy in light of the fact that they have had some marvellous charismatic pastors here over the years..
Be that as it may, I wonder now, if Evangelicals could be a bit more open to some of the values of the ancient churches. The Anglicans eventually did. I know that at the Reformation a great deal was "housecleaned", but sometimes the effect has been that Christianity started in 1517. Was eveything before that "sinful". Were all the interesting and varied Christian experiments and expressions before that simply "diabolical." And even the "Fathers of the Church", so much closer in time to the events of Christ's life (and many of whom gave their lives for Jeuss) since they were not "the Bible" is their opinion on these Gospel readings not worth considering?
Just some ideas. I am an avid ecumenicist and have been attending ministerial meetings for 25 years or more. I grieve that we are not more open...on both sides.
Thanx so much for your inspiring insights, especially this week's. Joe from Maine (All you people close to Jesus, pray that I will recover faster.)
Three of this week's lections refer to darkness and light. Darkness is, sometimes, our home; sometimes our most important home. My sermon this week will be called "Night Vision."
As an amateur astronomer, I know the importance of night vision...and how difficult it is to develop. For our eyes to become fully dark-adapted takes 30 to 45 minutes. It takes much patience. And one must avoid white light (red light is OK). It cannot be rushed, and at first, you see little. But after a time, you see much. Landscapes emerge. You start to see movement, where there is any to see. You can see almost everything you see in daylight, except without color. And in the sky, several dozen stars become several thousand. Nebulae appear, and even galaxies (well, one at least in northern skies: Andromeda, M 31). Clusters of light emerge from the gloom. Small meteors catch your eye. Satellites wink at you. With night vision, the universe becomes a living, dynamic thing, giving up its secrets, giving itself to you.
So it is with faith, and with life. We will all walk in darkness sometimes...if not by our own doing, then by circumstance. Manure happens. We spend a significant portion of our lives in the dark. And it seems to me, this is not only natural, but even good. Darkness is not innately bad; at most, it is ambivalent. It's what we do in the dark, and WITH the dark, that matters. Do we take the time, and have the patience to wait, for night vision? To wait for God? To discern God?
The darkness is fearful because it disrupts us. It stops our daily routines. It causes us (without night vision) to become lost, to not see where we are, or where we're going. It is disorienting. And, perhaps, that's why it can be good...because that's when God can best reach us, can most easily be discerned. When we are dislocated from our sense and our senses, our usually less-than-ultimate loyalties, our pettiness...this is fertile ground for the Spirit (not to mix metaphors).
I think of John of the Cross's "Dark Night of the Soul," and am glad our favorite Christmas hymn is not "Silent Day."
We live a lie, an illusion (especially in the church) when try to walk all the time in the light. We can't. But we wear our daylight masks like the dark did not exist. Original sin aside (which I don't believe in), life puts us in dark places, and we occasionally make gloomy choices. Not because we're bad, but because we're human. And it's in the dark where God waits for us, waits to be discerned, to love, to embrace. I think of the middle of the night times with my infant son (he's six now, and these times are rare), in the quiet, the only sound his breathing, holding and cuddling him, and "knowing" in the dark God's presence...feeling myself held and nurtured.
Not that the light is bad, for surely God call us into the light. Light means growth, joy, seeing ourselves and each other. Yet, as with many plants, roots grow wider and deeper in the dark than at any other time. So don't be afraid of the ambivalent dark. It can be good. Indeed, with developed night vision, it is where we do our best work in finding those who are lost and disoriented. But we must have courage to enter the dark, even befriend it. Too bad Matthew (4.16) misquotes Isaiah (9.2)...it is the people who WALK in darkness that will come to see great light. Those who SIT in darkness are often consumed by it, and grow cold.
Sorry, forgot to "sign" my refelction on darkness...but gives me a chance to include an illuistration. I remember a night as a "cabin counsellor" at Confirmation Camp...eight pubescent boys, all concerned with bodily functions and the noises they could create, until "lights out" that night at 11 pm. Then they started to talk. After a while, they talked about God, openly, honestly, and asked more probing, honest questions about God and faith than any adult has asked me before or since. It went on for over an hour, and there was no judging one another, no harsh crticism or division. It was a mircle, and a blessing. And it could/would never have happened in the light.
Barry in OH
In addressing the question about Andrew and Peter following Christ, I have a point to make. Sometimes when we see what appears to the natural mind as as an apparent contradiction, we are too quick to see a problem and point to it as a contradiction. In the way the two different gospel accounts are written, there is nothing shown to preclude the possibility that Andrew and Peter couldn't have went with Jesus for a short time and went back to their trade after a while, so that when Jesus came along at another time; saw them fishing, and told them if they followed Him that he would make them fishers of men (Having already known them from their previous introduction).Sometimes a simple explanation is possible, but we just don't see it, I found this explanation in "The pulpit Commentary," Volume 15, on Matthew. Steve in Ohio
In addressing the question about Andrew and Peter following Christ, I have a point to make. Sometimes when we see what appears to the natural mind as as an apparent contradiction, we are too quick to see a problem and point to it as a contradiction. In the way the two different gospel accounts are written, there is nothing shown to preclude the possibility that Andrew and Peter couldn't have went with Jesus for a short time and went back to their trade after a while, so that when Jesus came along at another time; saw them fishing, and told them if they followed Him that he would make them fishers of men (Having already known them from their previous introduction).Sometimes a simple explanation is possible, but we just don't see it, I found this explanation in "The pulpit Commentary," Volume 15, on Matthew. Steve in Ohio
In addressing the question about Andrew and Peter following Christ, I have a point to make. Sometimes when we see what appears to the natural mind as as an apparent contradiction, we are too quick to see a problem and point to it as a contradiction. In the way the two different gospel accounts are written, there is nothing shown to preclude the possibility that Andrew and Peter couldn't have went with Jesus for a short time and went back to their trade after a while, so that when Jesus came along at another time; saw them fishing, and told them if they followed Him that he would make them fishers of men (Having already known them from their previous introduction).Sometimes a simple explanation is possible, but we just don't see it, I found this explanation in "The pulpit Commentary," Volume 15, on Matthew. Steve in Ohio
Sory, my server cut me off and my last submission doubled loaded. Steve in Ohio
I like the fact that Jesus acknowledged the giftedness of those whom he called... you are fishers.. I shall make you fishers of people. Who and what they were will be used and transformed into something even better. For me it is a real challenge to those who say 'before i met Jesus my life was nothing"... yes it was, you were and are a miricle of God's creation and Jesus will use everything you have been for his purposes. Ken B . kenben@ihug.co.nz
I like the fact that Jesus acknowledged the giftedness of those whom he called... you are fishers.. I shall make you fishers of people. Who and what they were will be used and transformed into something even better. For me it is a real challenge to those who say 'before i met Jesus my life was nothing"... yes it was, you were and are a miricle of God's creation and Jesus will use everything you have been for his purposes. Ken B . kenben@ihug.co.nz
I like the fact that Jesus acknowledged the giftedness of those whom he called... you are fishers.. I shall make you fishers of people. Who and what they were will be used and transformed into something even better. For me it is a real challenge to those who say 'before i met Jesus my life was nothing"... yes it was, you were and are a miricle of God's creation and Jesus will use everything you have been for his purposes. Ken B . kenben@ihug.co.nz
This morning I had a "crazy" idea for my Sunday service (which is a family Sunday service with the children staying): What if I turned part of the sanctuary into the shore of Galilee (with fishing nets, shells, plastic fish, fishing rods)? Perhaps, I could dress up as an angler and tell people that this teacher came by and asked me to follow him. But that I told him I needed more time to think about his proposition. (It is perceivable that Jesus had perhaps asked others that didn't follow him, right?) Then I would proceed to tell the people why I think I couldn't do it. The reasons could be our human excuses for not committing to Christ, like: too busy making a living; can't give up all my old friends; I don't like change, I can't part with my money, my possessions, my toys; and what kind of a job description is "fishing for people" anyhow?
Then, I could proceed to give some reasons why fishing for people is more important than fishing for fish--for once: it's a promotion. And the benefits are just out of this world (literally).
Any suggestions? Any idea you could share would be greatly appreciated. Frank in PA
To Barry in OH, a quote from Henry Vaughn: "There is in God, some say, a deep but dazzling darkness..." And from W.H. Auden: "The fauna of the night, (the powers of dis-ease) hidden in the grass of your neglect- encounter them, contemplate them, dare to look steadily at them, wrestle with them, expect to be wounded in the struggle with them. Name them, recognize them, and be blessed by them. At the breaking of dawn they will beknown as delectable creatures, no longer exiled, but returned to you, made precious again, moving with you into the future, robed as desinies."- OldMrGrace in TX
that last word should be "destinies". OldMrGrace
Regarding repentence in this week's text...this is from "Texts for Preaching, Year A" (Westminster-John Knox, 1995):
"Unlike John, jesus apparently says little about the sins of those to whom he preaches, and the text says nothing abiout confession, remorse, and forgiveness. Repentance here means more a change of direction, tha gaining of a new set of values, the readiness for life under the reign of God."
I like that, especially the "gaining a new set of values." And it carries through the Gospels, where jesus seems consistently much less concerned with sin/sins and much more about healing and helping people find God within themselves, wiothout the need for intermediaries (priests, sacrifices, purity codes, etc.).
The problem, I guess, is in how we Christians can't seem to agree on what the "reign of God" is, or how/when it came/is coming. Personally, I like to use the analogy of the color purple (not really an Epiphany color, I know)...a blend of blue (this world) and red (God's realm/Kingdom); we live in a blended, "purple age", and perhaps always have and always will. We need Jesus (and other sages in other traditions) to help us discern how to live in "the red zone."
Barry in OH
I would respectfully ask that theologies that state that Jesus was seemingly less concerned with sin than helping people or that he says little about sin when he preaches, that these theologians take a peek at Matt 17:1, John 8:11, 21, 34, John 9:41, John 19:11 or that they read just about all of Matt 5 for starters.
I believe Christ was deeply concerned about the idea that it is our sin that defines our need of Him and that separates us from His Father.
When Jesus says that He came not to abolish the Law, the Law that determines and defines sin, but to fulfill it, is He not deeply concerned about and preaching, from a perspective of hope and assurance, about sin and about the solution to the problem of sin?
Musing and fretting respectfully,
Rick in Va
Barry in OH -- The human eye is wonderfully made. As I remember from the cursory study of the workings of the eye in high school biology, the eye uses whatever minute amount of light available to deduct an image. "Dark" is not the total absence of light, it is just less light than we experience during the day. I think I would call the absence of light "void" rather than "dark". The image we see is acutally because the thing reflects light. That military aircraft that is "invisible" (the Stealth?) is not able to be seen because it's outer coating absorbs light rather than reflects it.
I see hope in this. Before creation there was "void" but now there is light in all things, no matter how dimly we can see it. You are right -- it takes patience and training to "tune in" to where the light shines in what seems to be absolute darkness.
Preacherlady
I've been wearing glasses for a little over a year now. I've begun not to notice the lenses I look through to see the world. I realize when I stop to think about it that those lenses bring things into focus in the same way that my theology, beliefs, Bible study and life experiences shape the "focus" of my faith. The culture I live in also affects what I see and don't see.
Those who edited the Gospels were not 20th century Christians. They saw the world through 1st Century lenses. The "facts" or "truth" of the Gospels, inspired as they were by the Holy Spirit, were written, compiled and put into final form by folk who had very different "lenses." Does that mean what they perceived was inaccurate? Certainly not. But does it mean we can apply 20th century standards of historical and journalistic truth and accuracy to them, uncritically? Again, I believe the answer is a resounding NO. "A text without a context is a pretext." A lot has happened in the world in 19 hundred years, even if human nature is basically unchanged...
One man's "timidity" in proclaiming the Gospels may well be another man's integrity. Martin Luther wrote that the responsibility of preaching made his knees knock when he stood up to preach. I think it's important to remember all of us read the Bible with our own spiritual, theological and scholastic lenses, all influenced by the Holy Spirit's guidance. And many of us hold on tight to both edges of the pulpit as we preach to steady our knocking knees.
My real glasses work fine for me but probably would be blurry for most others. However, two people with different glasses may see the same thing and have valid yet different things to say about it. That's why God caused the study of Optometry to come into being!
In pursuit of clarity,
Da Rev in N Maryland
There is a wonderful sermon that talks about the difference between fishing with poles and fishing with nets. You can find it at www.deaconsil.com. This sermon might be really helpful for those of you who want to talk about evangelism. The title of the sermon is "Fishing in the Light." I'm sorry that I don't remember the author's name. I found it really interesting and inspiring -- maybe you will, too. JD in WI
All,
Since it seems we are slipping somewhat from the lectionary text, I've responded to Da Rev's last post over on the discussion site...
Rick in Va
It is interesting that Jesus now withdraws, after the imprisonment of the Baptizer, into the Gentile world, using Isaiah to speak of their lack of faith, their blindness, yet he comes not as any ordinary Jew who would condemn the "goy" but to be their light in the darkness, to bring them to faith in the God of Israel. He goes into this land before he calls his disciples. Why? What is it that he is looking for? (the question he asks the disciples last Sunday). Whether it be the darkness of unbelief (Gentiles) or the along the Sea of Galilee (a land that had lost its hope and its intimacy with God) he comes to bring a new life to those who sit in darkness or despair.
What is that darkness or despair in our lives? It is our sense of the absence of God. We have lost him in the fast movement of our time. We are a people afraid of silence - we make noise, we find work, we make a call on our portable, just to escape the self, and yet in running away from ourselves we run away from God. Now Simon and Peter, and James and John recognized their own brokenness, their own need for healing, their own sense of hopelessness - or they would not have immediately left everything and followed.
We cling to "everything" because we are not really sure that there is a God - so we continue to sit in darkness, until something stirs within us, when that happens we are ready, even if only a little, to hear a call ....
tom in ga
Well, I wanted to explore Jesus calling the disciples. At first, I didn't know how to approach it, but just now I read something that intrique me and I have an idea what God wants me to preach on. It is from The Interpreter's Bible.
"The address 'Follow me' is in the imperative, but the indicative of the divine initiative is fundamental. The fishermen are already at work, already doing something useful and important, thus they are not looking for a new life. Jesus' call does not fill an obvious vacuum or meet an obvious need in their lives, but, like the call of prophets in the Hebrew Bible, it is intrusive and disruptive, calling them away from work and family. The fivine sovereignty is clothed in the call to human response: 'I could not seek you, if you had not already found me.'{1} 'Discipleship is not an offer man makes to Christ. It is only the call which creates the situation.'{2}"
{1} from Augustine's "Confessions Book 1." {2} from "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
How true! How true! In fact, I just realize this is along the line of what Frank in PA is doing, only more creatively.
How often have we been called by God to do something and we don't want to respond because it disrupts our schedule or our status quo? God doesn't wait until we are available. He calls us when he needs us or has a mission for us to do. And it is up to us to respond.
Boy, I feel like I just walked into a garden with a lot of ripe fruit.
Brandon in CA
Oops! "fivine" should have been "divine"
I haven't had a chance to read all the postings for this week, so I hope I'm not duplicating someone's thoughts.
I am moving toward the idea that for us to be able to see the light that shines among us, we must first site in the darkness. I think there are several implications for this. First, humilty. We don't need the light if we think we can see OK. Second, it was a dark day for Jesus when he learned that his cousin was in prison for his sake. John in Ky.
Rick, your coffee cup illustration is good for showing how perspective creates different responses and descritions.
"This is a simple yet effective way to visually/physically teach our children that apparent contradictions in God's Word can easily be explained or rationalized away"
But there are still some things in the Bible that even with that understanding of perspective can not easily "explained or rationalized away." And what's more I kind of like it that way. God and God's work is more than I can comprehend.
Thanks for the ongoing discussion.
Blessings, Ann in La Blessings
Frank in PA
Sounds good to me. "Forbid Them Not" suggests basing a sermon on those 'finish the story' type books where you finish the story if one disciple had said "no," one had said "not yet," and another had said . . . (FTN never does write my sermon for me). My 13 year old is forever saying 'hold on' when we want him to do something -- sometimes before we ask, just when we call his name. I keep telling him the rapture's going to come, everyone else is going to be lifted into heaven and he's going to be standing in the field saying 'hold on.' When IS the 'right' time to say "yes" to Christ?
I'm trying to find someone in my congregation who has a collection of fishing lures and who will share them for the children's message. Show them to the kids, tell them why one is better for one kind of fish, etc. Then I plan to ask them what they've done to be a 'lure for Christ.' What have they done to attract people to Jesus. What can they do?
For next week, I plan to give the kids homework (in CHURCH!) and ask them to come back and tell me what makes them happy. (Beatitudes)
RevJan
Frank in PA—
You were asking for ideas. . . What if you were to have other occupations represented—you could be the angler, another a student, another a homemaker, another a gardner, etc, with the same sort of excuses appropriate to each. I think Jesus used their own occupation for the illustration, which happened to be fishing. But what if they had been lumberjacks or farmers?
ml in pa
Steve in Atlanta--
Following up on your early thoughts on repentance, and others' comments about being called from where we are (reluctantly, from darkness, from whatever circumstance), I heard a preacher say once that sometimes the good things in life can keep us from the best things.
ml in pa
Hello everybody, I little more background on capernaum. In Mk 1:29 we learn that Capernaum is the home of Peter and Andrew. Apparently they lived with Peter's Mother in law. Jesus made this his home base. Capernaum was much more congenial to Jesus and his teachings than nazareth was. His habit of healing on the sabbath didn't get him in trouble like it did other places. There are three towns in the area where Jesus spent a lot of time: Bethsaida, Capernaum, and Chorazim. Fishing was good at the N. end of galilee because of the hot springs in the area. The tropical fish liked the warm water. Peter and Andrew were partners with james and John in a fishing business. Hope this helps-- Larry
One idea that came to mind for a sermon direction was to ask the listeners when and where they were when Jesus Called them to Fish for people. Some examples included Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. Being struck with teh light and vision of Christ is pretty dramatic and we all wish we could experience the same life, earth shattering experience. However, God invented subtlty (sp?) too and everyone can reflect when God was calling them. I was working at summer camp, or my Pastor and I were talking, or I had to reach out in a new way, are just some examples that came to mind. Perhaps we have not had the experience of Paul but each is relevant. When and where were you when Christ asked you to fish for people?
Garrett in California
Why did the disciples drop everything and follow Jesus? I think there was some searching for meaning, but I don't know that they just suddenly left their nets to follow Jesus. Surely there must have been some thoughts and conversation leading up to the decision and action. I think I may preach this sermon of Jesus calling his disciples NOT from the pulpit,but as a lay-person who has been reached by Jesus. I feel a shortcoming of many churches and preachers today is that we don't do enough explaining of the benefits of being a disciple. Please feel free to diasgree! KS from PA
SS in PA I hope you haven't been scared off by the chastisement for Rick in VA. He doesn't know everything. He just thinks he does. Respectfully! The differences in the Gospel stories about how Jesus calls Peter should be celebrated. Jesus calls us in different ways. We all have different stories and tell them in different ways. I think it's interesting that we don't hear from Peter himself about how he was called. We only hear other people's interpretations of the call. I explain to thirteen year olds that it'snot so important how the story is told, but why the story is told. Ten eye witnesses to an event will have separate stories to tell about it. That doesn't cahnge the outcome of the event! I have my confirmation class pick a Bible story and tell it to each other in different ways, starting form different points, but still having the end come out the same. This may not have been especially helpful to you, but I hope it was more helpful than the beating you took earlier. Yours in Christ, Greg in NE
Saint Lynda of Chicago,
It is time you stopped reading all this stuff for your sermon and begin adding a few lines in order to help all of us.
tom in ga
SS in PA,
I was beating up on ideas and expressions (yours) not you personally. I believe there to be heirarchy in same but not heirarchy of individuals. Sometimes in my zeal, I may come across as beating up on the individual but you'll have to trust that this is not my intention.
Greg in NE,
I'm attempting to learn when it's OK to beat up on people and when it isn't. You apparently have that down. Give me time and I'm sure that enlightenment will one day set in as my mind continually opens...
Rick in Va
Rick in VA
I don't want to damage the integrity (hierarchical or not)of DPS or waste time and space in a personality clash with you, so this will be my last personal response. Any future communication from me will deal directly with the lectionary.
If you will reread your response to SS in PA who was simply posing a problem and asking for help, you called SS worldly, self-centered, prideful, cowardly, and suggested that SS is ashamed to preach the Gospel. Along with that came a sermon.
No matter how many times you type it, Rick, that is NOT respectful!
I admire your zeal. I only wish it was accompanied by some tact.
Yours in Christ Greg in NE
Once there was an episode of Sienfield where Eliane had a relationship with a man and while she was in the car she happened to push one of the preset buttons on his radio and a Christian Music sation came on. Eliane was surprized, and thinking that button had never been programed she set it at a contemporary musci station. The next time she got back inot the car, she presses the same button on the radio and found that the Christian Music station was back on. Later she said to her boyfriend "Are you a Christian?" "Yes" he replied. That made Eliane angry. Later while she was sharing this whole incident with Jerry she said,: "And he believes everyone who is not Christian is going to Hell!" Jerry replied- "What do you care? You don't believe in that stuff." "But he does!" Elaine said. "And he doesn't care enough about me to stop me from going to Hell!"
Never thought I would learn someting about evangelism from Jerry Seinfield. Do we care enough about those around us to share the good news of the Gospel, to invite, to share, to risk rejection? Thanks to my wife for pointing this out.
John in PA
I definitely think there is some time that has elapsed between when Jesus first met the 2 sets of brothers and when he asked then to leave all and follow him. They may have been followers of John and first met him there. I don't think he's a stranger. I'm also of the opinion that they may have gone back to their fishing business from time to time. They had to support thier families and themselves somehow. Larry
Hi,
My first time here... A friend of mine reccommended that I post a query here... I am ministering in an inner city Baptist Church and I wasn't a Baptist when they called me as Associate Pastor. The Senior Pastor left shortly after my call and I need to do a class for a few people who want to be Baptised and/or become members. I've checked out a few Christian book stores but haven't seen any good book on holding such a class. If anyone has any suggestions where to look or a good book on the subject I would appreciate a little assistance. If you do, please email me (John) at: ilikepooh@hotmail.com
Thanks,
John
Thanks, Preacherlady and Larry and many others for your thought-provoking and helpful submission to this DPS site. And thanks to all of you who remain focuses on the texts and their meaning. Just a few suggestions re Frank in PA's idea (Jan 20 at 09:27) of dressing up the chancel with fishing paraphernalia and himself as a fisherman: First, I think that dressing up as a fisherman would be great, but I'd hate to decorate the chancel with anything that detracted from its ambience as a worship space. Second I like the idea of holding forth on the "human excuses for not committing to Christ, like: too busy making a living; can't give up all my old friends; I don't like change, I can't part with my money, my possessions, my toys;" and proceeding "to give some reasons why fishing for people is more important than fishing for fish. . . . And the benefits are just out of this world (literally)". However, if you were to dwell on that too much, wouldn't it come across as subtly condemnatory? The underlying message would be: "You're not following Jesus as you should." "Do it and you'll get a higher reward." That's a good message, but if that's all you say, won't you leave people with more guilt than they already have? How about dwelling mostly on how they can get the power to follow and how they can find the means to do the right thing. This is where the Gospel becomes necessary, in every sermon. People need a clear exposition of what God has grace-fully done for them, which takes away their fear and out of which they can find the freedom and joy to follow. ---- Jim from B.C.
Fishing is an odd metaphor for evangelism ("I will make you fish for people"--v. 19). I can think of many hours I've spent trying to outsmart fish (Which lure will they take? What bait will work best?). Odd thing is that the little button-brained creatures often outsmart me! If we push this metaphor too far, evangelism takes on something of a sinister aspect. A few years ago the Children of God cult carried the idea to its logical absurdity with "flirty fish," women who attracted men into the cult by offering sexual favors. Aside from cults, I don't think anybody likes preaching that smacks of manipulation. It doesn't seem that we can make faithful disciples through trickery. Yet I like the fact that the brothers Peter and Andrew are casting a net into the sea in this week's passage. Casting a net doesn't require much subtlety. You throw it in, drag it out, and find out what you've caught. The church as a human catch-all (cf. Matthew 13:47) presents a far more benign (but also much more difficult, in the sense that it challenges our closed systems and the church growth "homogeneous unit principle")image of fishing for people.
Bill in SoMD
Friends, Thank you for coming to my defense and your many reassurances. I "lurk" at this site often enough that I am familiar with Rick's zeal, and paid no mind. In fact I had to chuckle a bit at his characterization of me as a fearful preacher. Obviously he hasn't heard me preach!
I'm not afraid of Rick, I'm not afraid to preach the Gospel, but I do want to be as effective in communicating the truth of God's Word as I am able. Hey, that's why I come to this site!
Just a thought. Some have grappled with the commitment that the disciples must have had to drop their nets and follow. I am inclined to believe that they were not particularly committed, but curious. Jesus did not say "follow me to the cross and beyond death", he just said "Follow me!" and they did. Not forever, but for now.
Eventually, when the crowds desert him Jesus asks the disciples if they are going to leave too. "Where would we go?, You have the words to eternal life!" is their (paraphrased) answer.
The journey to discipleship rarely begins with a full understanding of what we are getting ourselves into. That, and the committment to continue the walk, develop over time.
SS in PA
To those wondering Why Capernaum? One commentary I read suggested that, as a town on the sea, it could make for a quick get-away by boat if those responsiblie for John's arrest arrived to arrest Jesus, who had not yet had time to fulfill his mission.
I was wondering about Jesus's call "Repent, the kingdom of heaven has come near." According to my Bible, it is identical to John's call. Since John clearly saw himself in the tradition of the prophets, and Jesus is clearly shaping his ministry after John's (at least at the beginning), is it wrong to wonder whether this is Jesus's way of identifying his ministry with that of the prophets. This is certainly one of Matthew's themes, that Jesus came to fulfill all the law and the prophets.
Heather
Dear John baptized non-Baptist on baptism--
I am putting a few brief thoughts on the dialogue site. However, I have never felt that I am very great at baptismal preparation, so please, friends, help me & John out!
HW in HI
to those wondering Why Capernaum? pretty simple.... it was a thriving Jewish fishing community, right on the lake where there might be as many as 1,000 boats out on this lake( 13x6 miles).. Jesus stayed here most of his ministry... it was his home... and that of Andrew and Peter. If you have been there, as i have a number of times, you know how richly blessed it is with fish, just as the rest of Galilee is very rich with fruits and veggies.
I would invite you not to make some assumptions about these "poor" fishermen. There were 3 classes of fishermen.... 1. Brokers who were also tax collectors 2. Producers who were boat owners hired day help. Both these groups were businessmen often well off financially, and educated.... speaking a number of languages needed for commerce,etc. 3. lastly there were the simple, uneducated fisherman and day laborer.... evidence is strong that Simon and Andrew were one of the first two classes. That makes their willingness to leave their nets and boats even more remarkable, but more true to life for many who have heard the call.
Notice that Jesus came to them, not the other way around. Jesus said "follow me..." and they did.... they were ready... even when the world might not be able to understand it and think it foolish. Also notice that it will be Jesus who will "make us fishers".... love that image doen't you?
I call your attention to the New Interpreters Bible volume on Matthew.... very well worth while.
Been away for a while... happy to be back.... i can see that there are some new players... thoughtful and insightful..... Thanks for the food for nourishment..
and then there are somethings which don't seem to change very much. like the word used in this text about repent "metanoeo".... there is a need to change your mind, get a new orientation" , to self examine and get a new perspective" ...(different greek word than the repent loaded with judgement)
keep digging...
donhoff, elmira, NY
Dear All,
A couple of random thoughts late in the week.
Although I'm rather committed to the idea of inclusivity in translations of Holy Scriptures, sometimes I wince a bit when zeal surpasses thoughtfulness. There is a pun in this passage (or at least there used to be) when Jesus remarks (can you see the smile on this face), "you are fishermen ... come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Sadly, something is lost in the NRSV, with the rendering "... people" -- inclusive, yes, but the pun is lost! Sigh.
Second, there is this business about repentance. I think (as others have hinted) that the key to meaning is in the words, "the kingdom of heaven has come near". 'Repent', the word, means etymologically, "to turn back", "to turn around," "to turn to". This is not about sack cloth and ashes, folks, but simply Jesus pointing out to those in his presence with whom they are standing. Try reading it this way: "turn to me, the Kingdom of Heaven is near you". In other words, "I am near you -- come with me." It is a repetition of his Call, yes?
Finally, there is the matter of Call. I'm struck, as always (and as was Buechner), by the failure of Jesus to apply any standards to those whom he called to service. With years and years of experience in the processes which lead to ordination, I'm awestruck at our inability today to do it the way Jesus did it -- "come, follow me", and then watch to see who does!
Another Jim (who also is doing Annual Meeting on Sunday -- must be an Episcopal thing for January).
Thanks, all, for really helpful insights.
Re: light and dark. Barry's comments made me realize that even the biblical reference (Is. 9:2) didn't say that the people who walked in darkness now walk in light -- just that they/we have SEEN a great light, that light has shined. In fact, being in the dark really does help us to see light in a peculiar, appreciative way. One of my favorite stories (I've probably posted it here before): When Robt. Louis Stevenson was a boy, one evening he was gazing intently out the nursery window. His nanny asked what he was looking at. Outside, the lamplighter was coming by to light the gas streetlights, one by one. To his nanny's query, young Robert replied: "I'm watching that man knock holes in the dark."
Kay
An observation: I know this is the Matthew board, but please allow me to paraphrase the Corinthian passage, "I belong to Rick in Va or I belong to Greg in NE or I belong to Christ." Maybe it's good that you guys who insist on disrespectful and critical comments are working with the gospel text, 'cause you don't have a clue about the Corinthian passage. But this board is but a microcosm of the larger church. In regard to the call to be fishers of lost humanity, one of the reasons the church does such a poor job at fishing is that we do such a poor job with unity and being apart of the body and living out the implications of I Corinthians 1. Seems to me we mend our nets, then we fish. And we mend our nets and then preach about fishing, or it will be proclamation without spirit and power.
JD in WA
Amene.
HW in Hi
Did the first century fathers of this faith story intend the receivers of the faith vision to understand: (1) that the new Moses is also a Joshua, i.e., the rootage of the name Jesus and Joshua are related as both imply leading into the "Promised Land"; (2) that there is a correlation between the restoration of the Kingdom of God (lost for some 600-800+/_ years) and the Land flowing with milk and honey; (3) that the call of 12 disciples somehow recapitulates the 12 tribes of Isreal; (4) that, in summary, in some since this whole faith story is a reframing and/or recapitulation of the Covenant promise particularly revealed in the Exodus story? In what sense does this faith story go beyond religiosity in addressing the radical construct of Christendom being/becoming a "religionless religion",i.e., born out of the region of the Gentiles, the land of darkness seeing a great light? Does this not have relevance to the recognition of "ecumenism" on this Sunday in which UMC recognizes "Ecumenical Sunday"? (I am thankful for insightful expressions of the "unreformed traditionalist" and the quest for ecumenism as well as the sacramental presence transcending all diversity and exclusiveness!) As usual I am thankful for the vision of Nail-bender as this discloses the eschatological Kingdom at hand and that there can be no "personal holiness" except through "social holiness". I am thankful for the insights shared concerning the lenses out of which we "perceive", i.e., the relevance of worldviews needing to be dymythologized on both ends, the 1st century and our own. Iam thankful for the thoughts shared concerning "darkness" and "light"! PaideiaSCO in LA swampland.
Folks,
I posted here during the week the discussion centered on Herod's slaughter of the babies in Bethlehem and identified my self as a moderator pinch-hitting for the pastor but fogot to sign my name. I apologize for that. In any event, because I am a lawyer (yes, when I preach I remind the congregation that our lightening insurance is fully-paid), I find your dialgue here very helpful.
In any event, the pastor threw out his back yesterday, and I have to step to the plate on rather short notice. This is not nearly as bad as the Sunday on which I was called at 8 in the morning to sub for him at 10!
In any event, thanks again for the inspiration.
Moderator David
lawdog90@hotmail.com
Oooops! I mis-spelled "dialogue."
Moderator David
Following up on the Auden quote about "a deep and dazzling darkness..."
Madeleine L'Engle is a wonderful writer who uses that qutoe in a "A Ring of Endless Light." Even though I'm 32, I still go back and re-read her books that are written for "youth" because they are so insightful.
I know this won't help this week but maybe later on.......
Nobody's mentioned this yet, but fishing for fish has many parallels to fishing for people. They both take enormous amounts of patience; they both require accurate timing, not only to know when to fish, but when to set the hook after you get a bite. And once you've got something firmly on your line, it takes a lot of finesse and expert playing of the fish, allowing the fish the freedom to run away and back again, until it gets tired of struggling. Then there's the effort required to pull the fish into the boat. It helps to have other disciples on hand to steer the boat, steady the line, get the net underneath, etc. Now wouldn't it be a lot easier just to throw a stick of dynamite and blast the suckers out of the water? But that's not God's style of fishing. Jim from B.C.
Another Jim wrote: "There is a pun in this passage (or at least there used to be) when Jesus remarks (can you see the smile on this face), "you are fishermen ... come, follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Sadly, something is lost in the NRSV, with the rendering "... people" -- inclusive, yes, but the pun is lost! Sigh."
Actually, if you check out the Greek, the pun is there, but the NRSV is as good a translation of it as perhaps the old one. A better translation would have been, "They were fishers ... fishers of people." This accomplishes both the inclusivity and the pun.
And be careful how you quote scripture - because Jesus didn't say, "You are fishers." The evangelist identifies them as such, not Jesus.
Bruce on Pender Island, BC
Thank you for the many ways in which you have inspired me in my sermon preparation. I wasn't planning on preaching this week, but then my colleague had an emergency family situation for which he had to go out of town today. In my "desperation" I have read all of your posted notes this evening.
I especially enjoyed the notes on the images of the light and the darkness. I am eager to preach on this text another time because of the richness of the images which all of you have shared.
Thank you for your willingness to struggle with the text. It is an awesome opportunity that we have received as preachers.
I offer an illustration that might assist you late-nighters as you think about this opportunity for the disciples as they were invited to follow Jesus. I apologize for not remembering where I read this following example.
Before there were modern harbors, ships had to wait for the flood tide before they could make it into the port. The term for this was "ob portu" in Latin. Literally, it meant a ship standing over against the port; it was a ship waiting for the moment when it could ride the turn of the tide to harbor.
Our word "opportunity" comes from this original meaning. The captain and the crew were ready and waiting for that one moment when they could ride the turn of the tide to harbor. They knew if they missed it, they would have to wait for another tide to come in.
These fishermen in the story were present with an opportunity that would "turn the tide" in their lives. It was up to them to decide whether they would continue to fish or if they would follow Jesus.
May God bless your ministries. Faithmark in MO