How does it change our conception of Advent if we think of it as waiting "on" God instead of waiting "for" God? These are contrasting images for me. One says we will wait like a waiter/waitress, ready to serve God by waiting on others(loving them). The other says we will sit down at the counter and wait for God to come to us. Advent is proactive waiting, not passive expectation. What do you think?
Robin in OH
This is the last comment on last weeks Matthew discussion. I liked it and thought it might have some relevance this week.
QUESTION! I am sure that one of you will know why we can spell Immanuel two ways. Immanuel and Emmanuel. Any help would be appreciated! Nancy-Wi
For some, the following will be difficult. We are culturally conditioned to avoid the kinds of words that follow. But look at the Gospel for this week.
"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
Tough words. Tough talk.
The following is a sampling of words written recently by Marvin Olasky. If you're not sure who he is, you should look him up. He's written a widely read book called Compassionate Conservatism.
In a piece where he defends Franklin Graham's (son of Billy) perception of Islam, Olasky wrote the following about, well, us.
How do his words play on our ears and minds? Much like John the Baptist's perhaps.
"And yet, let's ask some questions about the current condition of American Protestantism. Are we more likely to hear pop! or pap from many pulpits? Don't books that document the state of our discourse have titles like No Place for Truth? Don't many ministers today talk more sociology than theology? Don't many seem more like politicians than preachers? And isn't it vital that Muslims, and all of us, receive not sweet talk but tough love?"
-Marvin Olasky
The rest of the article can be read in the Dec 2nd issue of World magazine (http://www.worldmag.com.
Hope you'll take a peek. It might have an effect on what you'll want to preach.
Here's hoping anyway.
Rick in Va
I have often been wondering about the choice of the "lectionary committee" to include John the Baptist on the Advent calendar.
To be perfectly honest, I think of this ragged prophet standing more in the "pre-gospel" era than representing the "Good News" of the Jesus era. On top of his message, this John really disturbs our festive Advent celebration with his bad manners (I don't even want to know what "brood of vipers" correlates to in modern language).
The postings of Rick in VA sometimes remind me of the voice of John the Baptist; so I will draw a parallel to them and the voice of John the Baptist in my sermon this Sunday.
I'm not trying to justify the postings of Rick in VA--especially not the ones that feel personally offensive. But I see a definite parrallel to the heart of these postings and John's message.
In a sense, some of the postings of Rick in VA represent this rugged voice that highlights a side of the Christian heritage as portrayed by the Scriptures that I feel somewhat uncomfortable with: an uncompromising stance on traditional theology and values. Especially the image of "the wrathful God" disturbs me in John's message.
Please note that I do not want to make any value statement concerning the person Rick in VA. I rather refer to some of the postings on this site that bear the signature Rick in VA. I don't know Rick in VA as a person, I only know some of the postings that bear the signature.
Chuck in DC
So why do I have to repent?
(after all, I am one of those "good" people, at least in the eyes of most, but why do I feel so empty?)
My life is drained from expectation, my hope is lost in the thicket of daily life, I focus on the moment without acknowleding it as God's home. I reject God love, by not loving myself or others, I run from uncertainty without embracing the unknown as the place of meeting and dialogoue with God.
I don't expect to be impregnated by grace, the coming of God was for some past time, John the Baptist spoke milleniums ago, his words are not heard, his proclamation falls on deaf ears, I want to believe, I want to hope, I want to love, but there is no one to show me how.
Advent, comes and goes, Christmas is celebrated every year, and I, well I remain the same -- caught in my own flesh, unable to see the road ahead of me and wondering ....
tom in ga
Apropos of a prior Sunday's lessons, Don Hoff wrote of my typing: "I know that i will not be the only one to see this beautiful typo...." He was speaking of "the Lam of God."
I saw it, Don. I saw it in the pulpit on Sunday morning -- nearly broke out laughing in the middle of my own sermon. I, too, thought of God "on the lam" ("the running away of God" as you put). Actually, I think that's the sequel to "God in the Dock"....
Blessings, Eric in KS
Chuck in DC,
You say you don't know Rick in Va. Bless you brother. And your words concerning my posts. I believe they're insightful.
Was John the Baptist's "sharing" constructive?
I think the answer is clearly yes.
Can we agree on that?
What was The Baptist's purpose? Why is he given prominence during Advent? Well, the literalist reads verse 3 of this Gospel and can canswer these questions easily.
There is reason for The Baptist's offense. There are reasons why the offended are offended. Were all of The Baptist's listeners offended? Apparently not. Some allowed themselves to be baptized by him, others decided to be his followers at least until Christ stepped into the scene.
I am going to admit to a personal shortcoming here. I am woefully dismissive of God's justice, his love for the poor. I am woefully ignorant of what my duty as a Christian is in regard to Christ's love for the poor and the marginalized. For that I, and my evangelical brothers and sisters who share in my views, need to repent. I must do more than the weekly tutoring or the delivering of meals to the poor that I now participate in. Much, much more. Faith without works, especially works that are representative of God's love for the poor, is a dead faith.
John Stott has put it this way n a recent devotional:
"...social action is *a partner of evangelism*. As partners the two belong to each other and yet are independent of each other. Each stands on its own feet in its own right alongside the other. Neither is a means to the other, or even a manifestation of the other. For each is an end in itself. Both are expressions of unfeigned love."
After my own Pastor's expository sermon on Isaiah today, a sermon that decried the evangelical sin of ignoring social justice causes, I grabbed his arm and said "Thanks for stepping on our collective toes today. I beat up on Liberals frequently because of their dismissal of the Lordship of Christ. I needed to be beat up myself because of my dismissal of God's love for the poor."
All of this is, in my less than humble but honest view, why the DPS's desperate preachers need a John The Baptist-like voice on her pages... and why that John The Baptist-like voice needs to continue to expose himself to some of you.
That is community. That is dialog.
Now, if I may put back on my clothing of camel's hair with the leather belt around my waist, and put down for the moment my food consisiting of locusts and wild honey, what I'd like to see is some honest and genuine repentance for dismissing concepts of atonement, downplaying the exclusive claims that the Lordship of Christ brings, and the outright denial of sin and sin's consequences, then maybe, just maybe, someone can take a gander at these pages and see not disagreement and dis-respect, but the Church doing what the Church is supposed to be doing... preparing the way for the Lord and his love.... not just the sentimental variety but the variety that calls for repentance and a turning to Christ, and Christ alone.
God's blessings on all who have the tremendous responsibility and calling to preach Christ crucified.
Rick in Va
- Date:
- 02 Dec 2001
- Time:
- 17:26:35
Comments
ATTENTION MUSICIANS: I AM IN SEARCH OF "JESUS, JESUS REST YOUR HEAD." I HAVE THE WORDS BUT ONLY PART OF THE MUSIC. ANY IDEAS FOR A SITE? PH IN OH
- Date:
- 03 Dec 2001
- Time:
- 05:39:41
Comments
PH IN OH, Here's two sites that might be helpful. The second on gives the first page of the score and you can purchase the whole score. Pace e Bene - Deke in TX.
http://www.ceap.wcu.edu/Houston/song.html
http://www.allegropub.com/jesus.htm
- Date:
- 03 Dec 2001
- Time:
- 05:40:58
Comments
PH in Ohio,
Try http://www.allegropub.com/jesus.htm or http://www.ceap.wcu.edu/Houston/song.html.
- Date:
- 03 Dec 2001
- Time:
- 05:59:23
Comments
Does anyone out there have a Candlelight Service they'd like to share with me. Need some help on this one.Thanks. Preacher in Ks.
- Date:
- 03 Dec 2001
- Time:
- 19:50:29
Comments
Preacher in Ks. send your email to me. revncarmichael@yahoo.com
From what I remember about the history of the times, the Pharisees & Saducees had a corner on who was considered ok and who was out of "favor" in the religious sense. They were the ones in power in the Temple. They had developed many traditions that were impossible for poor people to keep (See Mark 7: 1-8).
Also, the Saducees, who were successful in business and generally quite wealthy believed that their success was a reward by God for their goodness. Anyone who was poor or sick or down & out must have done something to "deserve it." Thus, the Saducees had no reason to want to help "the lowly."
By the time of Jesus, there were a lot of people who were considered sinners and thus outside of communion with God. John the Baptist came bringing good news to the poor and the outsiders and the discouraged. The baptism he gave was a new start for the hopeless. It gave them the chance to repent of their sins, and hope that the messiah was coming.
How nervy, then, for the Pharisees & the Saducess to show up wanting this baptism. I don't believe John saw any repentance in those folks. If they did want baptism, it was probably more for "insurance". Reminds me a bit of today's non-churchgoers who want to rush their babies in to be "done." jg in nj
The waters of baptism and the rite of new birth, the repentance that figures out in transformational change of becoming a self before God, the seeing and participating in the kingdom at hand/come near in the better self who is our neighbor in need, our better self clothed in another body, the sacred stories coming alive, Moses "drawn forth' from the waters, the aesthetic Elijah filled with charisma spirited leadership in spite of alone-ness, these are a few thoughts invading my imagination all at once in light of this scripture focusing on Saint John the Baptist and his call to repentance and the coming Kingdom inclusive of shalom, the blessing to bless all natioins/peoples, especially the suffering. (PaideiaSco in north ga mts)
Preacher in Ks:
You might try CCS Publishing. They put out a service every year (sometimes it's better than others). You can get the bulletins pre-printed. It is basically a service of scripture and carols, along with communion. We've used them off and on. My co-pastor likes them better than I do, but they are helpful, but I appreciate the ease with which we can use them.
Pam in San Bernardino
Pro-active waiting. I like that. Isn't that what we are called to do in this in-between time? In this already, not yet time? This lesson is right where we are as Christians. Waiting for a Messiah that has already come, but not yet. The message -- Repent, the kingdom of God is near -- is so true -- it hurts.
What else can we do when the kingdom is this close? When the perfect-all-knowing, ever-present, all-loving presence of God is so REAL, so relevant. Repent because when faced with that light, we can't help but feel unworthy, what could we possibley do to deserve such a gift. It is his presence, his actions on the cross that make it clear, like a light that shines leaving our shadow side. The good news is that we know the ending, we know what is coming. Therefore, no matter how long those shadows stretch -- no matter how dark those shadows are -- they are no match for the presence of God in our lives. They are no match for the love that has set us free from worrying about our unworthiness, about our shoulda, coulda, woulda's -- that is who we are waiting for -- it's already here -- stay awake, be aware, don't be fooled by false prophets who say otherwise.
Active waiting is having the stay power, the stamina to continue believing in what has already happened on the cross, what was said before the cross, when God's presence was only a child, only a man preaching in the wilderness.
We are waiting for a light that is near -- close -- almost -- a kingdom that is all around us.
Fr Sully
Hi Iam saddened by the unchristian attitude towards RICK from VA. I thought that we are mature enough to agree to diagree. Who knows maybe RICK just may be the prophet to keep us Awake- to challenge our prejudices and help us in the call to REPENT saintwin-Florida
I don't object at all to this passage being in the choices for this Sunday. John is a necessary part of thinking about preparing for Christ's coming. Bear in mind that only two of the gospels have any account of Jesus before the beginning of his ministry. The earliest gospel, Mark, begins with the preaching of John. So does the latest, John.
John is the skunk at the garden party. He's the fly in the ointment. He's the person who stands up at town meeting and takes a stand on principle over some seemingly minor point. He simply won't go away. John is our conscience, calling us back to prepare--not just superficially, but deep down. Really prepare.
When I think of John the Baptist I think of the opening of the musical "Godspell." The philosophers of the world are one by one contributing to the Tower of Babel until there is complete disarray. In the midst of that John appears, blowing a shofar and singing "Prepare ye the way of the Lord." John is the wake up call when we need to be called to task.
My thoughts so far.
Craig in Maine
Nancy-Wi QUESTION! I am sure that one of you will know why we can spell Immanuel two ways. Immanuel and Emmanuel. Any help would be appreciated!
ANSWER! No particular reason other than differences in transliteration from the Hebrew. Sort of like some news organizations write "Al Quaida" and some write "Al Quaeda".
Blessings, Eric in KS
Thanks for the info Eric-KS. Nancy-Wi
Chuck, Even though you more or less said you don't want to know, my reactive thought about the modern correlation to "brood of vipers" is "snakes in the grass." :-) Janice in Ks
Wooaahh. What am I in here, a time warp??? Rick in VA, FrSully, PaideiaSco, Pam in SanBerdu, tom in ga, Deke, et al??? Wow, seems like old times.
Shalom my friends!
Nail-Bender in NC
Preacher in KS, I have a great one too. Send me your email address and I will return it to you. cbroome@thomson.net cb in ttown
A question to the exegete:
How do we bring this reading anew to our people? Given the present situation, in post 9-11 America and world, how is this reading to be received? How do we address our people in this "politically correct" climate we are passing through? "Politically correct" was something the Baptizer wasn't!!!!! What within myself and in the world needs and seeks engagement? The visitation of God within our lives and world means what? Why repent? Why turn? What does all this metanonia stuff mean, in a world that seems to have returned to normal in someways and in other ways we are fearful of everyone around us ... that is not the time of "alertness" that the readings point us to.
So among the Biblical Theologians, your help is needed if we are to address this reading from Matthew anew.
Thanks, tom in ga
I was just contemplating how the term "politically correct" has changed meanings... It used to mean "pandering to liberal inclusivity concerns" (or something like that) ... now it seems to mean "supporting President Bush's 'war on terrorism' and waving the flag" ...
I think I agree with tom in ga that John the Baptizer was not politically correst, in either sense.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Dear Friends
I haven't posted for a long while, but I still read and enjoy your postings greatly what I've written is rather lengthy so my apologies in advance.
I return to the site at this adventide surrounded by news of illness, death and war. This Sunday I shall baptise a one year old baby whose mother is suffering from breast cancer. We shall say prayers for the mother of a seven year old we baptised three months ago. A talented and dedicated theatre nurse she has just discovered she has a brain tumour. Rather self-centredly I wonder whether I shall be able to physically actually hold the baby for the baptism (due to a current bout of multiple sclerosis).
Meanwhile news comes to me, as to us all, of suicide bombings in Israel, ensuing repression, military "advances" in Afghanistan, starving refugees, asylum seekers, violence against Muslims, Christains, Jews or others simply because of their faith.
Tomorrow morning I shall meet for the second time with an extraordinary woman who has been holding her family and herself together for decades, Her husband committed suicide when their 4 children were under 6. Their third child died of a genetic illness after years of institutional care 4 years ago. The oldest child committed suicide a few months ago. A thin thread of faith helps her to hold on but for how long?
This all will and has to be the context, local, global and personal from which I approach this week's readings. I don't think it will be possible for me to preach simply on the text from Matthew. The call to repentance ( and I do love John the baptist's anger and engagement and outrageous tones and they are important) surely has to be held together with the extraordinary promess of a fresh shoot from the dried out stump of Jesse in Isaiah. I love the way that Bible encourages us to read not just text by text but encouraging the reading together with other parts of the text for further and richer understanding. Matthew 3 cannot stand alone and maybe imperfectly that's what the lectionary encourages us to do too. The French catholic writer and lawyer Simone Pacot formulates this much better than I can, by simply saying that for each of us and for humanity as a whole God is both love and truth. Her book is called Evangelisation des Profondeurs (evangelisation of the depths).
In the church we get terribly hung up about labels which in the end mean little to folk apart from ourselves, liberals, conservatives, evangelicals, radicals. Perhaps the gospel needs fewer folk who believe in the Lordship of Christ or in the Social Gospel and a few more who gently, humbly and through much stumbling attempt to be witnesses to the love and truth of God, to grace and judgement. Advent is about the promess of incarnation not about the announcement of correct dogmatic statements. Advent ends in the mystery of the word become flesh – flesh that starves and suffers violence and war, and doubt and depression and also gurgles and cries with new life needing warmth and a mother's milk….
Last sunday and again this morning in the old peoples home I handed out figs (all those seeds are not a good idea for those with dentures I discovered!!) and asked folk to try to remember a bible story about figs or fig trees. Both times the first story that came through was the story in Matthew about Jesus cursing the fig tree when he found no fruit out of season, a bit more prompting and we remembered Nathaneal who had been seen beneath the fig tree, then and only then came the memories of Lukes marvelous parable of the fig tree and the gentle and patient gardener and the impatient master. I was truly surprised that collectively these congregations had written onto the hard disks of their heads and hearts the story of cursing in more retrievable form than the parable of patience and forgiveness.
So do our people, do we, need more repentance or more promess or is advent preaching about holding all this and much, much more together in as a holy a tension as we can manage??
so to each of you beneath your vine and fig tree, dwell in peace and be unafraid this adventide!
Jane in France
There's something rolling around in my head that I can't quite get to come out as an intelligent question, so I figured I'd come to the learned Desparate Preachers.
From Luke we learn that John was a descendent of the priestly tradition. In today's text, John wears camels hair and eats locust and honey. Why in the world would so many flock to him in the wilderness to a hear a message of confrontation?
Was it his family connections? His entertainment value? His clever speech? Or was something working behind the scenes?
There are many different STYLES of bringing the message of the Good News in Christ Jesus, but there is only on power behind the message -- that of the Holy Spirit.
Was the message John brought or was it the one from Jesus that was from God? I believe BOTH were messages from God, for the people of God, thanks be to God!
Why is it that so many of us are worried about HOW we should preach? Not every ear will hear the Gospel in the same way. Why should every voice preach in the same style?
This Sunday, in my church, I am trying to listen (in the Spirit) to what God's people need to hear. Is it confrontation or comfort? At times, it's both. What is it on 12/9/2001?
Perhaps we do not see the same answer, because we do not all serve the same congregation.
SOME came to see John in the wildreness. Others never left home. Which did Jesus come to save? How can they best come to know God's grace through the Good News? Where is all this going for Sunday?
I wish I knew.
Grace and Peace, Charley in NETex
Thank you, Jane in France.
Charley in NETex, Why did they go out? When I was growing up, every year "the goat man" would come through herding his flock, and set up camp out by the lake between our town and the next. He might stay a day or two, then would move on. Word would spread and traffic would increase out the highway, cars slowing and passengers gawking,"rubber-necking", as the clean settled folks went past scrutinizing the dirty stinky migrant. It happened year after year with the same response. Why?
Some mat have yearned to cut loose and follow, fleeing their small town confinement. I imagine some needed to validate their own respectability by comparing themselves to someone rough, dirty and smelly. Some folks just like a freak show. Consider much current TV fare. Most people see what they expect to see, but sometimes, folks without strong preconceptions see or hear something that shakes them up and gets them thinking in new directions. A few actually listen.
My guess is they went for many reasons and some heard reason and responded.
What does it mean to make straight the highway for the Lord? How can I possibly make the rough places plain for the Lord? After all, this IS the LORD, the Lord of Hosts, the Creator . . . How am I, a lowly preacher in a tiny rural church in middle America supposed to smooth down a mountain for my God?
How do YOU get ready for an important guest? Ask my children -- it isn't very pretty around here when company's coming! I may yell at them to pick their stuff up, to get their chores done, to be on their best behavior. I may be a bit frazzled trying to get everything done that needs to be done. But I would never, ever yell at a guest.
It seems to me if John was trying to make the paths straight for the Lord, he was doing a lousy job of it. "You brood of vipers" isn't going to impress the powers that be who were the one who would say whether or not Jesus was the Messiah.
Perhaps John is causing more trouble than he's solving. . .
Just thoughts
RevJan
Preacher in Ks
I have a Service of Lessons and Carols that I've used forever. Developed it myself based on the one in the UM Hymnal. Send me your e-mail if you would like a copy.
RevJan grant@eosinc.com
RevJan, I like your question about how we might smooth down a mountain for our God; and the analogy of getting ready for company may be helpful. It's midweek already, and I haven't yet discovered which direction my sermon will take. I also agree with the one who poses the question for the exegete, although I don't think I'm going to be talking about 9/11 events this week. The one thought I've had that I think may speak to the people I serve is around those last few verses. Where the winnowing fork and the fire seems to be a rather threatening message, there's part of verse 11 that may offer a tone of hopefulness from John, when he says something like this: "My baptism is ONLY a baptism of repentance, it's just about YOU making a change in your life (and we all know how hard that it!); but the One who comes after me? His baptism will be with the Holy Spirit and with Fire. HIS baptism will change YOU. You'll be different from the inside out, and the DOing you DO will come naturally, it will flow from the Grace he gives you. You will become like wheat without chaff, wholesome grain, good." And perhaps the human condition it addresses is that kind of Paul-dilemma of not doing what we wish we'd do, but doing the very thing we hate. Any comments, Desperate Preachers? Janice in Ks
Does anyone know where, on the internet, I can find the words to the spiritual "There's a new king a commin?" If so, would appreciate it if you would e-mail to jweinbach@nc.rr.com. Would like for this evening!
Does anyone know where, on the internet, I can find the words to the spiritual "There's a new king a commin?" If so, would appreciate it if you would e-mail to jweinbach@nc.rr.com. Would like for this evening!
In light of Jane in France's offering. I was wondering how we (as preachers) go about balancing repentance without making it bad news? OR talk about John's seemingly rough-around-the-edges message without coming down on the people who are in the pews following the risen Christ -- responding to God's grace in their life?
It seems to me there is a way to make this lesson heard even to the ones who suffer the most -- without adding another burden to their already burdensome life. At the moment I am at a loss.
Here are some brainstorms (although I would love to hear more):
We are the baptized -- we live a life of repentence -- therefore the message could be the kingdom's close proximity. Baptism is the guideline that sheds light on our reaction to God's grace. Baptism has already burned that which is unworhty -- our new life in Christ is the wheat that is left.
Fr Sully
In light of Jane in France's offering. I was wondering how we (as preachers) go about balancing repentance without making it bad news? OR talk about John's seemingly rough-around-the-edges message without coming down on the people who are in the pews following the risen Christ -- responding to God's grace in their life?
It seems to me there is a way to make this lesson heard even to the ones who suffer the most -- without adding another burden to their already burdensome life. At the moment I am at a loss.
Here are some brainstorms (although I would love to hear more):
We are the baptized -- we live a life of repentence -- therefore the message could be the kingdom's close proximity. Baptism is the guideline that sheds light on our reaction to God's grace. Baptism has already burned that which is unworhty -- our new life in Christ is the wheat that is left.
Fr Sully
To tom in ga and all Desperate Preacher's,
I agree that Sept 11 changes the way people hear the gospel and has recalibrated the notion of politically correct (a term I have never appreciated). I am reminding the congregation that repent has as part of its meaning getting reoriented (toward God, hopefully). I am going to encourage them that one of God's calls for us to be reoriented is to live toward the future not the past and use the dramatic hope in the Isaiah text for this week to let us give ourselves permission to believe that God has a plan and a stake in the future that looks much different than what we are currently a part of. We might even allow ourselves to believe that some day, by God's leading, the people of Israel will break bread with the people of Palestine, the people of Afghanistan will sit down with the people of the United States, the rich will have compassion for the poor, and "a little child shall lead them."
It's not fleshed out yet, but that is where I am headed.
Blessings,
Cindy in Wisconsin
The season of Advent makes me nervous in my belly. It's not the "preparation" for the big Holy Day- December 25- that creates anxiety. It's the coming of God, which is both at once a threat and a promise.
Today John would see the religious people make thier yearly trek to listen ever so briefly to his message- good clean religious folks that surround us on Sunday morning in our spotless expensive churches, and he would point at us and say, "You sons of bitches, you basterds, who warned you? Do not presume that just because you are children of Abraham or bear the name 'Christian' you are excused for that which God demands of you."
Harsh words, hard words, because they ring true. Last week I heard a Muslim cleric speaking to an adult forum tell us that "Christianity is the easiest religion in the world and that is why the churches are dying in the west, becuase you can say I believe in Jesus and put on a 'Jesus loves me buttom' and sit down in your e-z boy and relax."
I was offended by those words, but I recognized them as being generally true of our modern American form of Christianity.
John's words should turn our stomach, cause us great anxiety, and jolt us out of complancecy. John's words judge us for what we are and what we are not. John's words cause despair and we realize we NEED a Savior.
del in IA
Bear fruit worthy of repentance (v. 8) - December is a bleak month. The days get shorter. Many people get depressed because of the lack of light and warmth and growth. We come inside and huddle knowing that the darkness is not good and must be overcome. But we are powerless to overcome it. Think of how people must have felt before the electric light only about 100 short years ago. We need light and lots of it in order to thrive. But December is a bleak month, the darkest month of the year. And it keeps getting darker and darker and darker until the Winter Solstice comes and the light begins to return. That's when it is time to start celebrating! Now, during these darker and darker days of early and mid-December is a time to make ourselves aware of the darkness, the bleakness, the emptiness of our lives without the light of Christ. And yet even now we begin to light the candles (and turn on the electric lights ) knowing even now that Christ is here, that Christmas has come, that all is well. We know that there will be a spring, will be a summer, will be more light, will be a time of fullness, abundance, and delight. It is coming. We know it is. We certainly hope it is. We have faith that it is. We will bear fruit. The trees will bear fruit. Christ's rule of peace and prosperity will come. We simply need to take time, Advent time, to figure out our part in the coming fullness. We do this by getting empty, just like the trees, allowing this time, Advent time, to be a time of rest just like it is for the trees. Oh, how I wish it were so, but No, we can't stand emptiness and rest and so we have created a fake fullness, a time of too much artificial light and artificial life. I invite you to observe Advent this year as a time of waiting, resting, emptying, being still.
jaw in cny
Bear fruit worthy of repentance (v. 8) - December is a bleak month. The days get shorter. Many people get depressed because of the lack of light and warmth and growth. We come inside and huddle knowing that the darkness is not good and must be overcome. But we are powerless to overcome it. Think of how people must have felt before the electric light only about 100 short years ago. We need light and lots of it in order to thrive. But December is a bleak month, the darkest month of the year. And it keeps getting darker and darker and darker until the Winter Solstice comes and the light begins to return. That's when it is time to start celebrating! Now, during these darker and darker days of early and mid-December is a time to make ourselves aware of the darkness, the bleakness, the emptiness of our lives without the light of Christ. And yet even now we begin to light the candles (and turn on the electric lights ) knowing even now that Christ is here, that Christmas has come, that all is well. We know that there will be a spring, will be a summer, will be more light, will be a time of fullness, abundance, and delight. It is coming. We know it is. We certainly hope it is. We have faith that it is. We will bear fruit. The trees will bear fruit. Christ's rule of peace and prosperity will come. We simply need to take time, Advent time, to figure out our part in the coming fullness. We do this by getting empty, just like the trees, allowing this time, Advent time, to be a time of rest just like it is for the trees. Oh, how I wish it were so, but No, we can't stand emptiness and rest and so we have created a fake fullness, a time of too much artificial light and artificial life. I invite you to observe Advent this year as a time of waiting, resting, emptying, being still.
jaw in cny
Sorry for entering the same message twice. But, here's another one, hopefully only entered once!
During Advent we focus on the In Between Times. In between what? In between the age of the prophets and the age of the Messiah. With the birth of Christ, we get to a new age of God’s glory under the rule of the Messiah King but, guess what, only some have figured it out and been willing to live under the rule of the Messiah King. This King is different than other kings in that he doesn’t force anyone to accept his rule. We can freely choose to live under the rule of other Kings. These other Kings often appear to be more powerful than the Messiah King. They appear to be more fun, too. So God waits and waits and waits for us to finally see the light and accept the rule of the Messiah King. What are we waiting for?
The wilderness in which the children of Israel wandered between their slavery in Egypt and their entry into the Promised Land is the In Between Time which we all must go through, wilderness time for preparation to make ourselves ready to receive the rule of the Messiah King.
jaw in cny
ONE MORE THOUGHT!! And I always find all your thoughts, coleagues, interesting and helpful!
Did anyone watch JACK IN THE BEANSTALK: THE REAL STORY on CBS. I’m sure the critics are saying: YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING! (Way too long!) but I stayed with it to the bitter end. I think it is a strong indictment of how we affluent first world folks have stolen the golden goose and its eggs from the indigenous peoples. We need to give it back. Repent! Also, we have stolen the harp which represents harmony in the world. Repent! Also, we may not be telling the story of the last 500 years accurately. Repent!
jaw in cny
I always pictured John coming into the picture a moment too late. It looks like darkness has overtaken everything. Heads are low. Hopelessness abounds. People are filing out, and he comes and yells "WAIT A MINUTE - The ONE, The ONE is coming" Do you laugh? Do you just keep on walking, since after all, it's over? Do you dare believe again? Do you turn your head and look? Do you, dare I say, Hope?
JP in CO
I for one am greatly saddened and disturbed that Rick in VA's only option was to stop sharing his thoughts. I did not always agree with him, and sometimes his postings would even upset me a little, but I will defend to the death his right to speak his opinion, regardless of my feelings about it. I for one appreciated his comments, for their conservative tendencies brought the tenor of the whole board back toward the middle. Again, I am saddened by your departure, Rick, and I hope you do keep fighting the good fight of faith. UMPREACH in AR
I can't comprehend in America a person being told his posts would be edited. I shall miss Rick in Va simply because of the balance and the depth he added to this site. I have recommended this site to many simply because of the wide theological positions of the many contributors. I am not upset by discussion and heated disscusion sometimes. Where is our passion for our beliefs if not expressed in passionate speech. I am enjoying the discussions on here and learning alot. Often the question brought forth either from a perspective posted or an outright question are ones my parishioners could and do ask. I would appreciate duplicate posting being deleted! We all have a bit of a problem there.
Our Christmas program is during this service, of course the kids are telling the Christmas story. I want to preach a Word to the older children of God. meaning the adults. I have about three minutes. I want to talk a bit about repentance, the lion and the lamb. Does anyone have a story or illustration about that? Thanks. Nancy-Wi
Someone asked about "Brood of Vipers:" My initial response is a novel called "La Noed de Vipers," or "The Knot of Vipers" by Mauriac. I'm sure there are English translations, but I'll give a brief synopsis of what Mauriac might have considered (it's been 20 years since I minored in French, so allow me some room for error) to be the knot, and who the vipers were. The protagonist watches the love of his life essentially get the life sucked out of her by a religion (in this case, Mass) symbolized by an amethyst cross. All the while, Alyssa (the protagonist's desired), considers her religion to give her life meaning. She went from being a free youth with free hair to arranging it into what I picture as a bun and really got into suffering (hence the AMETHYST cross). She got caught up (knot) in the poisonous side of religion (vipers) and became a very dour person.
Of course, one has to have irony: it's an amethyst CROSS - not a crucifix.
Mauriac was not exactly a cheerleader for organized religion. Perhaps John the Baptiser knew something about that, too.
For what it's worth ... (and I'm relying STRICTLY on 20-year-old memory)
Sally in GA
I can't comprehend in America a person being told his posts would be edited. I shall miss Rick in Va simply because of the balance and the depth he added to this site. I have recommended this site to many simply because of the wide theological positions of the many contributors. I am not upset by discussion and heated disscusion sometimes. Where is our passion for our beliefs if not expressed in passionate speech. I am enjoying the discussions on here and learning alot. Often the question brought forth either from a perspective posted or an outright question are ones my parishioners could and do ask. I would appreciate duplicate posting being deleted! We all have a bit of a problem there.
Our Christmas program is during this service, of course the kids are telling the Christmas story. I want to preach a Word to the older children of God. meaning the adults. I have about three minutes. I want to talk a bit about repentance, the lion and the lamb. Does anyone have a story or illustration about that? Thanks. Nancy-Wi
Hey!!! The goat man used to come through the small town where I used to serve, too!!! How 'bout that?
Sally in gA
I will not miss Rick in VA! It is not his thoughts or his opinions that bothered me, but his condescending attitude. He constantly entered discussions that were fruitful and derailed them with his "i'm a better Christian than you" rantings. I found him to be an antagonistic bore. Thanks Frank.
larry in ok
At our Bible Study this evening, we spoke of the varied visions of hope and promise that came out of different cultural and historical situations. And we spoke of the difficulty of John’s words: “every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” We talked of how each of us must be refined and purified (which, by the way, is the idea behind the notion of Purgatory—where each of us is purged of whatever sin remains and made pure). Just before we broke up, one of the members added, “But I still don’t think I will want to be in heaven with certain people!” Hard to get past our feelings to really appreciate the radical vision of God’s kingdom, isn’t it!? Sharon in Bethlehem
The good news in John the Baptist is that he believed in the possibility of change. He wasn't offering repentance to the people so that they could sit around and feel bad about themselves. He was hoping and preparing for a change.
Many different kinds of people went to the wilderness to repent and be baptized. But John's hell fire and brimstone message was reserved for the self-righteous Pharisees and Saducees, the hypocrites of the religious establishement, who saw nothing wrong with their own lives and had no thought of changing. For John the Baptist, change was the point. He saw through their hypocrisy and called them to bear the fruits worthy of repentance... show some visible sign that they were ready to turn their lives around.
Richard Foster wrote in his book called "Prayer", "None of us will keep up a life of prayer unless we are prepared to change. We will either give (prayer) up, or turn it into a little system that maintains the form of godliness but denies the power of it - which is the same thing as giving it up."
Some of us like our lives the way they are, thank-you. It is hard to repent (and even to pray) if we are comfortable with the way things are and don't feel a need for change.
Others are longing for something different in their lives. For them, John the Baptist is GOOD NEWS. DGinNYC
del in IA
I like your thoughts, but can we tone down the language? While it is an 'appropriate' interpretation of what John would say today, I don't think I can use those words in church. As a matter of fact, I KNOW I can't! Any 'milder' expletives anyone would suggest?
Fr Sully . . . where do you minister? I'd like to pastor your congregation. My people complain that I make them feel guilty. They want me to preach about love and joy so they can feel good when they go home. One person told me that if people only come to church on Sunday morning and sit in the pew and do nothing else all week, that's being a good Christian. This person is a leader in the church, and well-respected by the people. I told him he was reading a different Bible than I am.
Where are the warm fuzzies in John's message? Anyone?
RevJan
Someone asked about the meaning of making straight the pathway for God. My guess is that it has something to do with the way people would "line the road" and welcome home a victorious king. I think John is saying that the King is coming soon, start lining up because He's closer than you think.
I love how John brings an immediacy to his listeners. Do it NOW! says John...sort of like the orchestra tuning up, the conductor walking out on stage and the house light dimming, a pause and then the first note sounds...and it begins.
Ready or not...here He comes.
John near Pitts.
What if we thought about the last few verses? Why do we need to repent? The ax is laid at the root of our tree. The chaff (that which is good for nothing) will burn with unquenchable fire. In contast, if we repent then we will be baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire. This fire though is different. This is the kind of fire that makes a piece of pottery hard and useful. This kind of fire helps separate out impurities in gold, so that it is pure and solid. This fire may sometimes be painful, but it is to clean up our lives so that we can be the people God wants us to be. This fire and the Holy Spirit empower us for ministry. When I thought of unquenchable fire I thought of several things. First, have you ever burned yourself on the oven? At least for a while, even with the use of aloe, the pain seems to continue. Second, I still see the pictures on TV of the twin towers site. The smoke still seems to be rising. An unquenchable fire? Perhaps! The temporary pain of being refined by the fire of the Lord is much preferable to the unquenchable fire of hell. Repent! PH in OH
I am in agreement with you RevJan. My congregation has a history of exact opposites - one controlling everything the other participatingn in nothing. Now me, and I push them to action and the change that comes is hard. I am constantly being inundated by rumors, inuendos and general 'concerns' that I am not warm and fuzzy and just oh so nice about everything. This is NOT a complaint just an observation of a small town church in Advent. This Sunday I am going to use John's words in a "warm and fuzzy" yet pressing way to help them move forward even more. Continue to challenge. John's 'warm fuzzies' come in the form of a challenge. The mere fact that he is warning people shows his caring and his love for all of us. I'd rather have him enter my life (even if it is scary and uncomfortable) than have someone gently say oh by the way, it's probably a good idea if you could find it in your heart to get ready..... It's far easier to complain regardless of who is doing the Spirit led speaking then to face up to the challenges the the Spirit gives us. Better to hear the Spirit and be guided by it and get the people in the pew riled up (even at you) then to simply be 'warm and fuzzy and LIKABLE - 365 days a year. Enough! Malia
It has been a good moment in my week to read these postings. What a discussion... it is nice to see such passion from the clergy! Whether I agree with you or not, fire up and preach well sisters and brothers.
My thoughts this Sunday will be directed at the subversives of the Christmas story. Consider: In our day, John would be locked up as mentally ill, Mary would certainly be called an unfit mother for her delisions (a young woman claiming God made her pregnant... call social services and take that baby from her). I hate to think it, but Herod would be considered a hero for his protection of the nation, strong leadership and decisive action. And I don't think there are many police forces that would allow a 'gang' to come out of the hills into town and buy the story that angels told them to come looking for a miracle.
John the Baptist, with his maddness, fire and anger is a perfect representation of the power of God's subversion of society. God comes in ways that we don't expect. God is revealed in both wild and wonderous ways. Babies are born into poverty and God is revealed. Teenage girls find themselves pregnant and God is revealed. Madmen come screaming from the wilderness and God is present.
In our times, we take these hard stories and sugar coat them with excesses, sappy songs and a gloss of warmth that really robs the truth from the message. Mary was a radical (read the Magnificat). Jesus was a child born in the streets (or back alley). John is insane. The 'good' people of our story- priests, lawyers, kings- are tossed into the background by the rejects, goofs and fools. Top it all off with astrologers claiming to be following a star that 'points' them to where the real king is, and the picture is completed (yes, I know I am mashing the various stories together).
Face it, the Gospels are taking everything we expect and, once again, flipping it over and over until we can't tell what is up and what is down, who is right and who is wrong. Even this discussion this week has succeeded in that! And what is the result? God breaks through using our confusion and misunderstanding to point out how little we truely know about the glorious love and grace of God.
No wonder John was mad... God's awesome-ness can do that to a person.
For me... Sunday I will be insane... Just like my brother John the Baptist and all of you out there who think we can somehow come close to preaching the 'Word of God'.
Tom in MN
RevJan, I appreciate your concerns regarding the language, yet to "tone" it down would be to violate the text and one might as well preach on Romans. John was offensive to the religious leaders and he is to us as well. We would probably arrange to have his head taken off too (while paying him lip service of course and side stepping the question of his authority). The Church is dying from "politeness" and we have lost the earthy, honest, no-holds barred message of the prophets and John and Jesus. If we are afraid of offending from the pulpit then we better find another Book to preach from than the Holy Scriptures of the Hebrews and the Christians. The question is: do we preach a message that makes people feel good and provide "warm fuzzys" or do we preach God's Word to us. The two do not always accomodate one another. I just had my cat declawed and neuter and I think we have a tendency to want to do that to the Word of God also. del in Ia
I think John's good news is that we still have time to repent. Things can be different. It is not too late, we can still prepare for something very special to happen in our world and lives. The message has come to us and we can get ready to recieve the good news. Or will we miss the Savior in the midst of all that is taking place in our world. We need the madmen like John to wake us up some times so we do not miss the simple and wonderful things that God is doing.
JB in MB
Good stuff, people, thanks! But I've always noticed and been reminded that John, though a prophet and a speaker of God's Word, was also, like you and me, human. He wasn't divine, he was human. Did Jesus fulfill John's expectations? Not completely. John's preaching hellfire and brimstone, and in walks this gentle kind of guy asking for baptism. No wonder John asks next week, painfully, "Are you the One? Or are we to look for another?" Because Jesus didn't come in anger and judgment, as John expected, but with gentleness and mercy. Which is not to say that there is no judgement-- Jesus holds us accountable, for sure, but not as violently as John would prefer. Yes, he does get ticked off at the Pharisees, too, and uses John's "brood of vipers" phrase, but overall, Jesus does not come with the kind of power John envisions, and might wish Jesus would. But it doesn't lessen his power and the power of who He is and what he does when he comes. It makes me wonder if John, like us, was making Jesus into his own image. How much we would love to see "those people" pay and "burn"! I'm encouraged that John the Baptist was used by God in this way, the forerunner of Jesus, even though he may not have gotten it completely right, and even though he was seemingly disappointed with the Jesus he got. Just some thoughts, for what they're worth... PM in PA
Hi all.
Re: John B's caustic proclamation.
I was at a workshop a couple weeks ago, and the speaker told us preacher-types that, if we haven't preached the six sermons which would get us fired, we haven't been doing our jobs!
Ouch! Bang! Oof! Whack!
I've a feeling that John was "doing his job"!
Rick in Canada, eh?
del in Ia writes "RevJan, I appreciate your concerns regarding the language, yet to "tone" it down would be to violate the text and one might as well preach on Romans...etc....If we are afraid of offending from the pulpit then we better find another Book to preach from than the Holy Scriptures of the Hebrews and the Christians."
Del, I think you may have missed the point. I agree with Jan. Your language choices did nothing to strengthen your point. You didn't exactly quote from the scriptures. The intensity of John's message doesn't need to be spiced up with vulgarity to be heard.
Do you plan to shout the words you wrote from the pulpit on Sunday? for shock value? to be controversial?
P.S. my prayers for your cat...ouch
larry in OK
del in Ia writes... "RevJan, I appreciate your concerns regarding the language, yet to "tone" it down would be to violate the text and one might as well preach on Romans...etc....If we are afraid of offending from the pulpit then we better find another Book to preach from than the Holy Scriptures of the Hebrews and the Christians."
Del, I think you may have missed the point. I agree with Jan. Your language choices did nothing to strengthen your point. You didn't exactly quote from the scriptures. The intensity of John's message doesn't need to be spiced up with vulgarity to be heard.
Do you plan to shout the words you wrote from the pulpit on Sunday? for shock value? to be controversial?
P.S. my prayers for your cat...ouch
larry in OK
del in IA
Funny... I thought you were going to use the 'declaw and nueter' to illustrate how the Word is sometimes painful, but in the end it brings about what is best, in other words, tough love is still love.
Another thought -- the Good News is not known until it is all over. This is just the beginning of the beginning -- a voice in the wilderness -- rough around the edges, but still the truth.
Thanks all, this has been very fruitful (worthy of repentence?)
Fr Sully
del in IA
Funny... I thought you were going to use the 'declaw and nueter' to illustrate how the Word is sometimes painful, but in the end it brings about what is best, in other words, tough love is still love.
Another thought -- the Good News is not known until it is all over. This is just the beginning of the beginning -- a voice in the wilderness -- rough around the edges, but still the truth.
Thanks all, this has been very fruitful (worthy of repentence?)
Fr Sully
At the start was this question: Why was John the Baptist put here in the Advent lectionary?
The subsequent postings make clear with several good insights, I think, that John is precisely the voice we do need in Advent.
But the short answer is this: Advent is the season to prepare for the coming of the Lord. John the Baptist IS the means GOD chose to prepare the way for the coming of the Lord.
We may prefer to prepare with tinsel and trees but God sent a guy who could wield an ax.
"What did you go out to the wilderness to see? A man dressed in red robes and soft white cuffs? Behold, those dressed in such robes are found in the shopping malls?"
Why did the Pharisees and Sadducees go out? My guess is probably to see that the others folks were repenting. You know, the sinners, the Muslims, etc.
pHil
I don't disagree with del in IA the message NEEDS to be heard, but my folks won't hear it if I use gutter language -- they will get so hung up on language that they will fail to hear the message -- like the Pharisees and Saducees of Jesus' day.
By the way, for those who don't know me. I preach part-time (right!). During the day I am a school secretary in an alternative school for severe behavior and conduct disordered students. Words like "bastard" and "bitch" are part of their normal vocabulary.
RevJan
RevJan said of the students at the school where she works: "Words like 'bastard' and 'bitch' are part of their normal vocabulary."
My reaction to del's comments was, "I suspect that what he said [which I didn't find all that offensive] is the modern equivalent of 'brood of vipers'." Now I wonder if the term "brood of vipers" was a commonplace epithet, or something peculiar to John... I've tried to find out, but nothing seems to address the question.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Many images have come to mind as I have read through this discussion. I could not help but try to imagine what it would be like to be John the Baptist, sitting in his wilderness place -- Ground Zero -- this year. What would be the response as he approached a member of the clean - up crew and said "prepare the Way of the Lord". What various ways would any of these people, any of us, have to "prepare because the kingdom of God is near". Perhaps the preparation would be in accepting healing for a hardened heart. A heart that has had to build a shell in order to survive the realities s/he faces. How does the Way of the Christ break into the grief, the constant reminder of fallen friends, comrades, and neighbours (known and unknown)? How does the Baptist point to a kingdom like Isaiah describes where life shoots forth from death or from those who have been struck down. How does the Baptist and his messengers bring a vision of wholeness and holiness into that situation? It is a wilderness and a voice is sent to cry out in it -- prepare the Way of the Lord! Perhaps the voice is really crying from the inner wilderness Prepare! Prepare to live again, Prepare to be whole and thus holy again. Or, is it possible that there are those in that wilderness who ache to forgive and be forgiven. In the horror and what has likely become numbness now, what drives people to continue -- a generalized conviction as someone on this site has made that Muslims [in gerneral] are sinners? that only those who are victims in the rubble are the righteous? What health and holiness is there in such labels and attitudes? The Baptist calls out -- repent. This is not a judgement. This is the acceptance and compassion for a lonely place within where a burden is waiting to be lifted and sifted. Where the burdens of judgement give way to a new way of knowing and thus opens fertile ground for the seed of forgiveness. I am struggling with this image, because it is very powerful and very profound -- John the Baptist, or even the prophet Isaiah, standing in the midst of our modern day ruins, be they in NYC or in Israel, or where ever. What is really their message to the heart of humanity? There are tired, worn down people living in the midst of these places. We live in the midst of thses places. As Christ stands firm in these places whom do we see; are our hearts beating in unison? what repentance -- life giving change -- will Christ reveal to us? The kingdom is in the midst of our ruins, how do we prepare that place for Christ's reign, now and into eternity?
kt in can
Larry in OK, I think the words I used convey the offensiveness of the text in our context.
We in America do not share the same conotations of "brood (or offspring) of vipers" that would have erupted into the minds of the people of that century and that geography. In fact, I don't think we possess a phrase that questions one's ancestory while associating it with some a deadly, destructive, and vile force.
To use our venacular of "sons of bitches" IS to tone it down. John's label of the religous leader would have been incrediblily vulger to those who heard today's text- more so that anyting we could say to the people in our context.
Fr. Sully, I was thinking of our cat as this cute warm and fuzzy FREE unconditional gift...right! While the cat was "free" within 3 weeks we paid out over $250 in vet expenses for our dog (the cat scratched his eye) and lost virtually every house plant we had- 2 from my dad's funeral a decade ago, and other "damages" associate with our new guest in life. While the gift in and of itself was "free" there was still quite a bit of cost and change associated with it. To cut the cost, we declaw and nueter him. I thinks that's what we do to the porphets and the Son of God.
I'm so glad I stumbled upon this site and hope I didn't offend anyone too much and that I may come back. I've written my sermon form this exchange.
Del in IA
Emmanuel and Immanuel.One from Latin and one from Greek.
Anybody going to comment on the fact that Sunday is also the start of Hannukah and that w/o Hannukah there possibly wouldn't BE a Christmas...the Jews would have just gone down as another hstorical sect without the miracle of the menorah.....
I remember a parishioner making a comment to me that "real preaching" is when the preacher pounds on the pulpit.
But I believe Truth doesn't necessarily have to be shouted. I also believe that we have to earn the right to be heard in our congregations. Treating parishioners with trust, love, and dignity make our words more "hearable".
Pumping up the volume may in fact make our message seem less credible. I don't believe in the "bully pulpit", I believe in the Living Word that somehow is communicated through our sincerity, honesty, and integrity.
Ever notice how some people try to win arguments not with sound reasoning but by shouting their positions with their "I'll never change, I know I'm right attitudes"?
Using a bigger stick isn't always the best way. But sometimes it feels pretty good.
John near Pitts.
John near Pitts, I understand what you're trying to say, yet the prophets, John the Baptist and Jesus didn't employ soft cuddely tactic consitantly. I suppose there is a time for one style versus another. Yet Advent if one follows the Lectionary is about "bully Pulpit". If you're not up for bully pulpit that change the texts you preach on rather than water them don
I think the reason John spoke harshly to the Pharisees and the Sadducees was simply that their view of the world was not only limiting but destructive - those who were not like them, they didn't accept; those outside the Torah were simply "goys", thos who didn't observe the Sabbath were infidels, etc. They lacked what Isaiah spoke about a kinda "wholesightedness" that brought all things, all people, humanity and God into harmony, the restoration of paradise, the rebirth of Eden. Indeed, the Pharisees and Sadducees are the chaff, and I am the chaff as well when I seek to spinter my world between my goodness and someone elses (of course) evil. Repentance is over due ... prepare ....
tom in ga
Here's an excerpt of what I have (so far) as a conclusion...
Advent is about – not knowing – it’s about looking around and seeing the world as a place that is about to be transformed by someone more powerful than you can imagine. It’s about not having any presuppositions about anything, except… that God can do anything. It's not about resting and waiting – its about actively preparing – actively taking stock of things, and wondering – when God comes to me as something more than the little voice I talk to when times are tough, or who is there every once and a while in a fleeting moment, or a little compartment in my life that gets opened once in a while when I feel like it -- when God is really present in your life as the greatest love, the most wonderful guide, the most beautiful presence – what will that be like? Advent is asking yourself: What is going to happen when I truly give it all up and realize - -there is nothing I can imagine that will be as wonderful as his continual presence? The Kingdom of God is definitely near – prepare yourself.
Fr Sully
Hi JAW: Re: Jack and the beanstalk the other nite. Wow! I didn't pay much attention to the Sunday nite episode, but my housemate made us sit down and watch the other half.
Remember where the story came from: Ireland and England and Catholicism and Prtestantism are it's roots. The giant in the story we grew up with being the ruler of England or Ireland dependant on your "side"
So, it's a story steeped in it's time. I read a "backstory" on it...about how Modine (Jack) didn't like the old fable when he told it to his child, and how when he recieved the script, it was his wife who read it and said "this story has found you to help you ask"What if the giant was good?" (the line is repeated towards the end of the show.)
Some have said that John the B is time specific. That he's preaching to the rulers more than the people. But remember the time frame. There have been no prophets. The only miracle even recorded in the inter-testemental time is the miracle of the oil in the newly re-consecrated temple. He dressed as he did because God gave it to him. He was as much a priest as his father was. he was his Father's priest in his Father's temple (the world) and he was actually doing a form of ritual cleansing with the idea of baptism in the river. he is preaching to those who believed "the fence around the law".
Yes, John is afflicitng the comfortable with the coming of the lord. We want to comfort the afflicted (or our people want us to do so) with the Nativity.
and preacher in KS....give me a shout at rokinrev@odyssey.net and i'll share my service with you too
ALS in cny
"making straight the pathway for God"
the king deserved the straightest, cleanest road, free of ruts and mud.
reminds me of the palm fronds on the road to Jerusalem...making straight and solid the path for our God
Talk about desperate We have been working on our new addition for the last three days and I'm so tired each evening that I haven't even begun to think about Sunday and to top it off I have a funeral at 11 tomorrow. The Christmas parade and lighting of the tree here at Silas And our joint Community Cantata is Sunday evening. I may use the story of Ebeneazer Scrooge and talk about the meaning of repentance And our own need to repent. I always appreciate Rick because he tells it like it is. Keep it up Rick
Harold in Alabama
The image of John as the "outsider" was clearly a symbol of uncompromised faith. Most (if not all) of us have our faith "compromised" - unwittingly, unintentionally, but inevitabley - by our lifestyle, our personal habits, our political persuasions, our economic practices, etc., etc., etc. John stands apart from all which compromises our faith in Christ. Of course it is not an "either/or" issue, but a recognition that those of us who must "live in this world but not be a part of it" must constantly repent of that which compromises our faith. Repentance is an ongoing act for those of us alive in the faith.
sadpad
I rarely submit my thoughts because someone usually seems to express my sentiments. I noticed today however our "pot" has been stirred and I wanted to speak just for me. I'm am glad the pot is stirred. I recently attended an Alban Institute conference that spoke to what makes effective (healthy) meetings and/or groups. There are 3 criteria that are hallmarks of the same. Trust, Safety, and the Invitation of Conflict! The conflict aspect allows us to claim our differences and state our paritcular values and beliefs that support our thoughts. The dynamic of this creates relationship because we teach others who we are--and they don't have to agree with us for us to be known by them. In the Jewish tradition theological "argument" is considered a spiritual exercise and worthy of personal effort. I hope that, espescially during this Advent Season, we can be reminded of the Good Samaritan; the one whom was considered not of the true faith, at best, yet did the right thing. God can use anyone to teach and grow us and God's compassion can be ruthless. Let's not give up on each other even when our chains are yanked, it may just be God guiding us in our journey to be in relationship with each other and God. Peace and "Conflict" to All. KC in PA
The "desert" cry for "straight pathways", preparation for the "WAY of the Lord", I believe can be found in contemporary literature as well as existential, autobiographical, communication and community-making even on the "net' as well as in our churches. From the unknown mystic of the 12th/13th century in "The Cloud of Unknowing", to Thoreau's "Walden Pond" and the historic "Road less traveled", to M. Scott Pesk" "The Road Less Traveled" and the quest to create covenant community universally, we have vital witness of cryings in the wilderness for the WAY of "straight paths". Covenant community-making, even here on the dps net, evolves through straight pathways engaging us in stages of faith development and stages of becoming a holistic "unity" in community. (1) We cannot spell "community" without "u-n-i-t-y". (2) Kahlil Gibran describes the Prophet Christ as revealing "your neighbor is your better self clothed in another body". (3)The "road less traveled" in "costly disciple" may be less traveled because it hangs upon the cross of "costly grace" (Bonhoeffer). "Community-making" evolves through four stages: a)our best face presentation, the facade, the persona, the shadow; b)the "I" think position, the power struggle of controlling, the "talking" rather than "listenting", the so having the truth (like Jonah) that no one else is considered to having any thoughts, the monologue, the one-way relationship, the "I", "I", "I", phase, the beginning of conflict rooted in monologue and power control. (c) the all out conflict, the crisis, the confontation beyond encounter, the over againstness, Jonah alone crys out from the belly of the fish (no longer "asleep" in the belly of the ship), anguish, anxiety, the fight to the finish. (d)the discovery of dialogue, the beginning of open-ness to others, like D. H. Lawerence in "New Heaven and New Earth" reaching out one night and touching that which verily was not "I" ans becoming ecastically, mystically alive, the new birth of self in relationship with others, the reciprocal dialogue that leads to communion and then to communication and then to the sacramental mystery of covenant community. Let us all cry/pray together for courage, the faith, the hope, the love, the grace essential to finding a straight pathway in our wilderness desert. After all it is Advent, isn't it! The beauty of "O Holy Night" cannot escape those who have cried out of the pain, woundedness, and anguish of "The Dark Night of the Soul". We are called in all the beauty of our diversity to become community makers here on dps as well as in our churches. (4) In "The Miracle of Dialogue" Reuel L. Howe has said it best for me: "Every person is a potential adversary, even those we love. Only though dialogue are we saved from this enmity toward one another. Dialogue is to love, what blood is to the body. When the flow of blood stops, the body dies. When dialogue stops, love dies and resentment and hate are born. But dialogue can restore a dead relationship. Indeed, this is the miracle of dialogue: It can bring relatinship into being, and it can bring into being once again a relationship that has died"(page 3). (5) The Johari Window, especially in an age of "paradigm shifts" and "future shock", provides a frame of reference and a tool/process of needed self-reaizatiion which may restore "open-ness" to others as well as "open-ness" to/in authentic self-understanding. This "window" involves "knowledge of self" which can be seen/known by self as well as known others. However, it also involves knowlege that others may have of us but which we do not have of ourself (unknown to self) as well as a dimension of the "unknown, unknown," (Unknown to self and unknown to others. The sacred mystery of prevenient grace is working in each of us, even when we do not know it, as we seek to work out our salvation walking on the glory in the desert darkness. (PaideiaSCO reflecting on dps reflections and thankful for each contribution especially when it challenges my inner-most frame of orientation at the core of my being/becoming, and calls for a paradigm shift, a transformative change, a learning of the straight WAY in the desert of darkness. I am reminded of: "Moses, why have you brought us out in this black desert of darkness to die? We had more to eat in Egypt land, etc., etc.," and they rebelled every step of the WAY!)
The latter reflections on the desert wilderness wandering, and the resistance to change, thus attacking the leader "Moses", was to confess how hard it is to undergo "tranformational change" characteristic of "deep learning" in the inner "shifting" of our own paradigms and/or frames of reference, in an age so filled with constant explosve change moving so fast that we feel victimized by too much change in too short of a time span. Sometimes our "conservative" tendencies grow out of resistance to being victimized by this enviroment of too much change in too short of a time span. (Toffler) The greater tragedy is that we become "paralyzed force" (T. S. Eliot) in that we not only close our selves in relation to the future, the innovative, the open-ness to the "not- yet", but we in our "conserving" do not know authentically what we are "conserving" because we in our "frozen-ness" have also become broken from the Past, "what-is-no-more". Perhaps authentic quest for communion with early Church Fathers as in the work of Tom Oden, or with the Desert Fathers as in the work of Richard Foster, is the kind of "conservative" frame which "opens up" the future in the most radical innovative way. I think of Jesus in his baptism experiencing "Heaven Opened" (this sacred story follows in Matthews gospel our present lectionary reading). (PaideiaSCO)
I am a bit surprised at this point to see no one has brought up the Essene community that was out in the desert in the area where we find John preaching. Many scholars think he may have been a part of that community, possibly even a representative or evangelist for their way of life.
Their theology was one of calls for repentence, ritual baptism and a scholarly bent that is quite admirable (they are credited with hiding and so preserving the Dead Sea Scrolls). Joshephus and Philo both write about this interesting community. They preached that Jewish society had become corrupt and needed to rediscover their unique relationship with God. They went as far as calling themselves the 'children of the light' and one can find several parallels to word choice in Jesus' preaching. Some speculate that the Jewish rebellion gained its legetimacy when the Essenes came out from the wilderness to join the fight agaist Rome.
It takes one in a new direction to think that John was not alone but part of a greater community working together to reform society. There is a fairly clear connection, I think, between their preaching and that of John's. There is also the later historic link to the early church movements of the Desert mystics, the monastic movement and, if one allows for a bit of heresy, the gnostic movement... all of which had the reform of the church and the rediscovery of a relationship with God at their heart. It appears that we have always had our outsiders to remind us on the inside about the deeper calls to faith and new life. Maybe our call tomorrow will be to listen to the outsiders, take seriously the discordent and difficult voices that come from beyond our cozy safe circles.
Tom in MN
On the Road Crew
One metaphor for our lives is that they are like roads. There are twists and turns, they go through dark valleys, they ascend great heights. Everyone knows that there are both potholes and nasty bumps, and in other patches nothing but straight, level, and even going, where you can sail through with no problems.
In the Gospel from Matthew for today we hear that John the Baptist is preparing the way (or the road!) for Jesus to come. John is calling out to people and telling them to repent. For the unrepentant spiritual leaders of his time he reserves a particular scorn: he called them a brood of vipers, an especially insulting name since they considered snakes of all kinds to be unclean. John's message is the same for us today: repent, mend your ways, and level out that road in your life.
The road that is our life will be walked on by many people as they come to know us and build relationships with us. If our road has the deep valleys and potholes of sin, it will slow their progress. If they have to climb the mountains of our own self-righteousnesss, they may just give up in exhaustion. And if we throw people curves and switchbacks by being deceitful and hypocritical, who can blame them for choosing another road?
The destination for everyone who walks the roads of our lives is that they meet Jesus. Jesus is on that road: the deeper they get inside us the closer they come to meeting him and knowing him. But if our roads (our lives!) are in a shambles from sin, hypocrisy, and deceit, they may never get to meet him, and that's a serious problem.
Jesus wants the roads of our lives to be straight, and narrow, and level, with no confusing signs pointing in other directions besides at him alone. As we approach the coming of our savior's birth, ask yourself if it's time to go to work on the Road Crew. Fill in some potholes with repentance. Level some jagged bumps with a dose of humility. And decide on a straight path towards our savior by turning away from the unneccessary distractions of this life.
Other people will notice the clean-up project, and they will surely want to travel that road. It's then inevitable that on that path they will meet Jesus in the center of your heart!
"a little child shall lead them." The first shipment of supplies for Afghanistan from funds raised by the children of the USA is being sent. When Hurricane Andrew devastated Florida, one of the children of our NC congregation demanded of her father, “What are we going to do for those people?” Dad, who was not a particularly faithful man, was moved to gather food and took his own truck to deliver the goods. We need to listen to our children. Sue in Cuba, KS
"a little child shall lead them." The first shipment of supplies for Afghanistan from funds raised by the children of the USA is being sent. When Hurricane Andrew devastated Florida, one of the children of our NC congregation demanded of her father, “What are we going to do for those people?” Dad, who was not a particularly faithful man, was moved to gather food and took his own truck to deliver the goods. We need to listen to our children. Sue in Cuba, KS
I want to weigh in on the side of Rick of VA. I have appreciated his insights and comments, whether I agreed with him, or not. Ruth Bell Graham, in speaking of her relationship with Billy Graham, said something like, "If we were exactly alike, one of us would be unnecessary." We need to hear from Rick, ESPECIALLY if his opinion is different from my own. I will never be challenged if I surround myself with "yes-men." I hope Rick and Chuck will both continue to contribute to the discussions. Pastorbeth in TN
Dear DPS Folks,
It never fails. I come back at the end of the week and find a marvellous and inspirational discussion of this challenging text. Thank you everybody (especially the enlightening translation of "brood of vipers" =)
I am going to miss some of Rick in VA's postings. But perhaps he, like the Baptist, needed to make room in God's good timing.
If group systems theory holds up, we could perhaps see the void be filled by another voice of conviction.
Thanks again...
Chuck in DC
On the Road Crew! Wonderful posting. Thanks, Nancy-Wi Really tied it together.
I have enjoyed the discussion, but there seems to be something missing. It has been said we are in between times, we are waiting. For what? Mark 1:14-15 says: "Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." Yes John the Baptised came to "Prepare the Way for the new Kingdom" but Jesus is the Way and His Kingdom is here. There seems to be alot of discussion of what we need to repent from. Webster Defines Repent as - to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life. (not merely sit and enjoy being set free). But deep inside Webster's defination for sin one finds this line - a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God. Sin is our estrangement from God. Repentance is our constant attempt to end that estrangement. It is not important what we repent (turn) from but to whom we repent (turn) towards. Since the Kingdom of God is here, we need to be leading our people towards personal relationships with Christ. Then our people can speak with Jesus and recognize Jesus and His works in their lives and the life of the church here on earth today. The Pharasees and Saducees knew the law and had no "sin" to turn from but they dearly need to know the God to turn toward. The poor heard this message and didn't gain any wealth from but spiritual wealth for their lives then - not fire insurance for the future. Pastor Glenn (OH)
Thanks, everybody! Especially DGinNYC, the poster of "On the Road Crew", and Pastor Glenn (OH). You've helped me immensely.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Previous:
To get things started on this gospel, the phrase "Bear fruit worthy of repentance" caught my attention. What kind of fruit is worthy of repentance? The fruit of the Spirit I am sure, but how do we recognize it? Is it possible to repent and not bear such fruit? Look forward as always to a thoughtful and prayerful discussion. I have contributed infrequently here, but have always found the reflections quite helpful in my sermon preparation.
Peace in Christ,
Don in NC
The same phrase caught my eye. I would hope that no one will be excluded from the ability to repent. I have a member who is suffering from something similar to Lou Gehrigs. He cannot speak or move his extremities. One might be hard pressed to see "fruits of repentance" in him .
On the other hand, We have all heard the words "I'm sorry" said without any intention of repairing the relationship. Children forced to apologize can utter those words transparently, with menace and scorn absolutely audible.
I think that John is trying to get at a stance, not a list of "fruits." He is trying to transform the vision of God from a disengaged, powerful, coercer of apology to an engaged, powerful, restorer of justice in relationship.
Thanks for your comment/question Don. You started me thinking.
PS in PA
John the Baptizer... a personal hero.
Here's a guy, sent by God, to offend the religious of the day. "Brood of Vipers" he called them... Didn't Jesus use those same words a little later?
He talked about repentance. He spoke of chaff that would be burned up. I don't believe we could call ol' Johnny B. an enabler now could we?
Being bold about God and His Word can be frightening to some, offensive to others. The Church today seemingly needs those unafraid to offend, unabashed in their zeal for God. I get the impression that many shepherds will touch up, dumb down, re-phrase the Word that God brings them, for after all, we can’t step on toes, we can’t take risks. There’s a pension to worry about, a budget to keep. The old guard to keep content.
What kind of cultural hand-cuffs are placed on preachers today? Why can’t we speak today of conversion, of repentance that bears worthy fruit? Why can’t we judge whether fruit is even worthy anymore? What does the Church lack today? Is it the fire that the Holy Spirit brings? Is it zeal for the lost? Might it be the presence of God Himself?
Lord, may we be bold as John the Baptist. May we proclaim the Light that extinguishes darkness without concern for what is revealed. May You manifest Your presence among us, motivating us to proclaim the freedom that comes from knowing Your Son, Jesus.
Teach us to trust You Oh God.
Rick in Va
Is anybody a Northern Exposure fan? There is a wonderful episode where there is a baptism and part of the homily is about the truly repentent being forgiven. If anyone wants more details--let me know. If you have it on tape, it's the "A Wing and a Prayer" episode.
LW
Bear fruit worthy of repentance. I've always preached that repentance is a "turning away" from an old way of life (sin). Yet there is much confusion in our churches and world today as to what Christians are to "turn towards." Is it baptism by immersion, is it feeding the poor, is it loving the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself, is it bearing fruit worthy of repentance?
Today I overheard the men's class saying, "When's the last time you heard a preacher say, "Repent, for the day of the Lord is at hand!" One man replied, "Not since the last time I was in a Baptist church."
Certainly we can spend time on what "not" to do. Isn't it more fruitful to preach what it means to be fully Christian, bearing fruits worthy of repentance, rather than "Almost Christian" (Wesley), getting everything right but the two greatest commandments? Just a thought. MK in NC
Saint Bernard's Three Comings:
1st Paragraph:
We know that there are three comings of the Lord. The third lies between the other two. It is invisible, while the other two are visible. In the first coming he was seen on earth, dwelling among men; he himself testified that they saw him and hated him. In the final coming all flesh will see the salvation of our God and the will look on him whom they have pierced. The intermediate coming is a hidden one; in it only the elect see the Lord within their own selves, and they are saved. In his first coming our Lord came in our flesh and in our weakness; in this middle coming he comes in spirit and in power; in the final coming he will be seen in glory and majesty.
sermo 5 In Adventus Domini, 1-3, Opera omina, Edit. Cisterc. 4 [1966], 188-190
Sorry to take so long to find the source.
tom in ga
"Bear fruit worthy of repentance"
See in your own life the way you are turning. Pay attention to the promptings of God directing you to fulfill his will of shalom and hesed. To repent is to know the direction in which you turn, away from self to embrace the other in God; you begin to do that with last weeks Reading from Romans: Owe no one anything, except love one another. Hear is the rip fruit of faith and repentance as we open ourselves in this season to the God of our beseeching.
tom in ga
"Bear fruit worthy of repentance"
See in your own life the way you are turning. Pay attention to the promptings of God directing you to fulfill his will of shalom and hesed. To repent is to know the direction in which you turn, away from self to embrace the other in God; you begin to do that with last weeks Reading from Romans: Owe no one anything, except love one another. Hear is the rip fruit of faith and repentance as we open ourselves in this season to the God of our beseeching.
tom in ga
LW -- I am very interested in The Northern Exposure episode, "A Wing & A Prayer." How can I find out more details? Debbie
Good evening;
All in all - John has not received the press recently he used to get in some parts - something about being judgmental and condemning sin and such as that which is being passed around as non-Christian now. Perhaps, the reason this text is chosen is to signify that Jesus did make a difference in the world of the Pharisees and the Sadducees - and should make a difference in ours. Unfortunately, he has become in our eclectic, inclusive, everyone in the pool society just another "holy Joe from long ago."
To John, however, who preached pure unadulterated sin and the need for repentance - Jesus was the culmination of the message - one which would dictate a change in the way the world responded to the problem of evil and sin. Rote formula and sweeping it under a rug of rules and regulations do not remove the stain - from any source. I find it interesting that John uses the words "brood of vipers" also. Could that be an illusion to the serpent in the garden - and are those to whom he is speaking being called that serpent's spawn. Ahhh? If so, where and how did the religious find themselves turned from their own story to the adversary's story. Was it in making the assumption that their thoughts mattered as much as God's teaching? That may be a reach - but look at the history of what they were saying was acceptable in the palace, and winking at in other places.
One further point - How do we present the dual picture of the Savior present in this season as a small, helpless, altogether lovely child - and the judge of the quick and the dead who will separate the wheat from the chaff - those who are growing from that which is useless.
God Bless! Rev. Rick. in beautiful So. Ga.
Debbie--email me at lwilley@colby.ixks.com and I'll give you details. LW
"Do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our ancestor'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.'"
This Sunday I will be preaching in two Churches - my last parish (Safe Harbor MCC) and my new one MCC - Nashville. They are both in need of hearing this Word from God. I am as well - made me wake up this morning when I read it. It made me take notice and think about where we are and where we are headed.
I am thinking that the need is to show how God is going to use the new, the inovative and the fresh to move and grow the Kingdom. I have been here in Nashville for 2 months and the people that were here when I arrived are VERY defensive about the changes that are occurring. Thye seem to think that each new thing we start is a commentary on how they were doing before. Now, we know that is not true - but I think much like the people there to hear John's message we want to think that we are THE DEAL. The only ones that God can use and that everyone else has to model our behavior and o things our way. God raises up stones to be children of Abraham and Sarah - when the children refuse to listen to the call and the power that they misuse.
Are we willing to listen to the children that are raised up by God from stones that had not been alive before? Are we willing to risk all we have to follow that prophetic voice that comes calling in the night?
In Christ's Love, Greg in Nashville
Since going to Israel last winter, scriptures like these now have vivid backdrops for me. Isn't it interesting that John goes to the *wilderness* to teach about repentance? Not to the population centers, but to the wilderness: where Israel sojourned for forty years of rebellion and ate from God's hand, received the Law, struggled with doubts. The wilderness area where John preached is riddled with caves where insurrectionists, rebels, and others who were on the lam easily hid out. But John's harshest words are reserved for the religious folks, the folks who would have trekked down from Jerusalem (no easy trip) to hear him preach. The wilderness is where King David hid out with his troops, and not far from where John preached is Masada, where Herod laid up his stores and hedged his bets against the day he would fall into disfavor with Rome or that the Jews would become violent against him. The wilderness calls into question how well one is prepared for the experience of living there, and to whom one looks and trusts for the source of life. Repentance is like that I think. It is a call to turn towards the source of life and every good gift. Robert Kysar suggests that "the other side of the good news of the gospel is the bad news of judgment..." God is about to give us the lavish gift of divine presence and rule--which promptly turns our lives upside down. Our very identity is shaken to the core--we cannot even claim our ancestral lineage. Everything we look to for safety and security is called into question when we trek through the wilderness. Kysar continues, "Repentance then, is letting go of the securities we have created for ourselves in order to accept God's gift and *its* security. Betsy in OH
I cannot help but reading ahead to next week as I deal with John this week. Matthew invokes the central core of Judism memory. John in his camel haid coat and leather belt could not help but stir the momory of Elijah... His discription cannot but bring forth the image of the Davidiac Messiah..coming with spirit and fire to burn away the chaff and cleanse Israel, the ax laid at the root..This is the messiah of the white horse not the messiah of the donkey..hence John will ask are you the one. Greg in nashville; Bringing something new to the church may be seen as trying to erase their memory. Jesus brought a new concept, not punishment but forgiveness..In repentance we turn from the old life to the new life Walking not towards hell and damnation but towards the risen messiah and eternal life. Judgement is no longer an acceptable term in churchs.. so in the words of the Kingsmen..I will just be a fruit inspector. What fruits come from repentance, what fruits are worthy of the gift Christ gave to us...How does John see the fruits when he has not seen the life of Christ. Stuggling with this today
Rich in NC
I cannot help but reading ahead to next week as I deal with John this week. Matthew invokes the central core of Judism memory. John in his camel haid coat and leather belt could not help but stir the momory of Elijah... His discription cannot but bring forth the image of the Davidiac Messiah..coming with spirit and fire to burn away the chaff and cleanse Israel, the ax laid at the root..This is the messiah of the white horse not the messiah of the donkey..hence John will ask are you the one. Greg in nashville; Bringing something new to the church may be seen as trying to erase their memory. Jesus brought a new concept, not punishment but forgiveness..In repentance we turn from the old life to the new life Walking not towards hell and damnation but towards the risen messiah and eternal life. Judgement is no longer an acceptable term in churchs.. so in the words of the Kingsmen..I will just be a fruit inspector. What fruits come from repentance, what fruits are worthy of the gift Christ gave to us...How does John see the fruits when he has not seen the life of Christ. Stuggling with this today
Rich in NC
A thought re the Advent theme of expectation: On Friday evening, our church sponsored a Living Nativity Scene as part of the downtown Festival of Lights opening ceremonies. Following what I understand to be one tradition (no baby Jesus in the manger until Christmas Eve) the manger was empty, even as Mary and Joseph, shepherds and angels and magi filled out the scene in the stable. When we're waiting for a baby to be born, we fill the empty spaces with all kinds of expectations. So too we can fill the empty manger with all kinds of expectations about the One to be born. What are the expectations we bring to the One about to be born? How do scripture, tradition, and experience shape our expectations? Thanks to Tom in Ga for the reference from ST. Bernard. Thanks also to those of you who have provided links to Christmas story sites. Is anyone familiar with a Katherine Anne Porter story about going Christmas shopping with her niece? Blessings! Doug in Riverside
Hi, I had a great experience preaching yesterday, thanx to this heavenly-inspired website! Thanx one and all. I used the story of the Cobbler, but not emphasizing wht he did but rather that he waited...to see the Lord. We can't throw everything at them every Sunday. That's why there's a liturgical year: sowe can focus on one thing at a time. I do not think advent is really time for converting, even though that is one theme in the Gospel reading for today. I think advent is a time for resting in the Lord, for opening, for getting rid of inner tensions, for expectation. I think i would be dismayed if iwent to t Church service next Sunday and the preacher challenged me,as theysay. Do we always need to challenge them? Aren't there times to just praise, or just meditat, or just lie open in expectation. "If anyone love Me he will keep my commandments and myFathe will love him/her and we will come to him/her and make our abode with him/her." Longing that Jesus will really make his abode with us is, I think the focus of Advent this year. In the ancienbt churches (Coptic, Byzantine, Roman) they had (and soem still have) the wonderful custom of chanting the readings, including the Gospel. This custom celebrates the Word of God, ritualizes it, makes it a vehicle of divine power JUST IN ITSELF...no challenge needed. Get out of the way and let the beautiful, divine word do its job. Leave the poor people alone. Thanx again for a great site. Joe in Maine
Betsy -- that was some good stuff. Thanx for your input. Joe, I appreciated what you said, too...my congregation is elderly and though I think they need God's challenging from time to time, I also feel compassion for them -- what they must be feeling and experiencing. ("Comfort ye my people" is also biblical preaching as well as "repent!) That's why I will probably choose to preach from Romans on Hope this week -- still, the challenge of preparing the way remains. . .So, perhaps the comfort is, that repentance opens up the way for the Spirit -- and it's the spirit that brings hope, ability to change and new life -- even for a congregation of 80 year olds. Or maybe -- especially for them. RevKK
Just a few notes as we begin (if I can keep our new kitten off of the keyboard!): V. 1: John appears in the wilderness. The wilderness is where is all began for the people of Israel, a place of testing (as with Jesus). His prophetic message is linked to the ground of Israel's calling. Matthew will later picture Jesus as also coming out of the wilderness - a new Moses who fulfills the calling of Moses. Moses had to stand on the edge of the wilderness (as John does), not able to "cross the border." Jesus takes them in. (part of the message of next week).
vs. 2:The message seems to be like Jesus'. Not simply that it has arrived, but that it has "come near to you." It seems to already be a present reality that has drawn close in proximity to his hearers.
v. 3: An alternative reading would be: "A voice of one crying out: 'In the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord!'" The first would stress John as the one "in the wilderness" who is crying out his message. The second is a call to return to the wilderness experience - to the roots of their faith. A common call of the prophets - to remember where they were called from, and so to remain pure in faith.
v. 4: "locusts" are not necessarily the bug, but perhaps the sweet nectar of the locust tree. It may have some reference to Israel as a land of "milk and honey." It was explained to us when we were in Israel that the "land of milk" and the "land of honey" may have been allusions to two seperate parts of the country. The "land of milk" was where the nomads and shepherds roamed - a place where life was hard, and Yahweh belief was unquestioned. The "land of honey" was along the coastal areas, where there were large cities and life was easier, but also where syncretism was a problem. Is there significance between John's eating honey and his clothing (the clothing of repentance?) and his message which seems especially directed at those who come down from the "land of honey?" All speculative, of course! But that he mentions "Judah and Jerusalem" would seem to bear out this same point.
v. 6: John's baptism and Jesus' baptism are unlike. John's is a baptism for repentance. Jesus does not require repentance, but is more like an annointing of a king (although some church fathers see Jesus as being baptized in behalf of those for whom he will die - he, in effect "repents", carrying their sin in his own body, and at the same time, pays the penalty).
v. 8: "repentance" - "walking in a new way" Not so much "godly sorrow," since feelings are really beside the point; but rather a new way of living. For the prophets it included (as someone has already pointed out) hesed, walking the way of right relationships; it is also walking the way of peace (shalom), of wholeness. What does God require of a relationship? John spells this out in specifics, Jeremiah 31:31 points out that it requires a new heart to do this. Jesus, as Paul points out, fulfills God's demand in this respect = he is God's righteousness. Sorry to all those who want to be like John, but his is not the same message as Jesus'!
v. 9,10 His is truly an O.T. message: everyone will pay for their own sins. Some rely on their ancestry (after all, my parents built this church!), but each will be judged according to their own works. To God (as Paul so eloquently put it) there is neither Greek nor Jew ... etc. All must come to him in the same way. (I had a prof. that felt that the Gospel was only for Gentiles - God has another was of dealing with the Jews! So much for John, Jesus and Paul!)
v. 11 John notes the difference in baptisms. Jesus' baptism is not for repentance, but "with the Holy Spirit and with fire." Or "spirit/wind/breath of holiness and with fire." Fire certainly seems to have to deal with judgement, but more so to us who have Milton hanging around our necks! Fire may also be for purification and, giving the context, seem more likely. "Spirit of holiness" may be more akin to Jeremiah's passage - the spirit of holiness is that which gives us new, purified hearts, appropriate to the wilderness experience.
v. 12: I'm not at all sure that the "fire" of vs. 11 is the same as that of vs. 12. The flip side of the coin of the spirit of holiness and the purifying fire, is the judgement on those who do not bear fruit - they are the chaff to be burnt in unquenchable fire. The dross is burnt away, only what is pure, what is of the H.S. remains.
a few starting thoughts on a beautiful day in N.C.!
Gary in New Bern garoth@coastalnet.com
What wonderful input already for a Monday. I'm wanting to use both epistle and gospel texts--not impossible, but challenging. Basic thoughts at this point are: our hope is to be found in Christ. If Christ is to bring about baptism by fire, what kind of hope is this? This is not an easy, feel good hope. But it makes us look at ourselves very carefully. We'd like to avoid images of judgement, but at the risk of sounding like a baptist preacher (not a bad thing you know) the Bible is full of references to judgment. Jesus will examine us closely, and we'd better be prepared. Advent is not just a time for preparation for the arrival of the baby Jesus, it is a time of preparation of ourselves to receive the Holy Spirit into our lives. These are early musings. I'd love any responses that will help me form this sermon. By the way. Doug, is Riverside in California? if so, send me a note at peejaymo@aol.com. Pam in San Bernardino
Just a quick note - for those of you who haven't taken advantage of his resource, Deacon Sil has some nice examples of sermons on this passage on his web page, deacnsil@bellatlantic.net. And for some excellent Advent and Christmas resources, be sure to visit http://www.rockies.net/~spirit/sermon.html Great stuff!
Gary in New Bern garoth@coastalnet.com
Sorry - I gave Deacon Sil's e-mail instead of his web page, which is http://www.deaconsil.com/
Gary in New Bern garoth@coastalnet.com
We will receive two catechumens on Sunday as they begin their journey toward Holy Baptism. "Turning" is indeed the theme of Advent, as we slowly let go of all that clings to tightly and allow new life to embrace us. The catechumens are inspirations, and gifts from God, as the whole parish is put to mind of their primary ministry to "make new Christians." The words of John the Baptist are appropriate not only to them but to a congregation who lives primary on the inheritance that they have received from their ancestors and not from a lively and vital faith.
tom in ga
Gary in New Bern,
I had found Deacon Sil's site some time ago but was afraid to mention here at DPS, afraid that my endorsement would hurt his hit rate. Now that someone else has 'found' him, I can reveal how much I like his 'stuff'.
Today, I found a sermon on Deacon Sil's web-site called "Good News... With Exhortations?" It's by Stephen Portner and is excellent. You can read it yourselves at http://www.deaconsil.com/luke/3.7.goodnews.html
Betsy in Ohio,
I loved your post, especially the quote by Robert Kysar. Thank you very much...
As I continue to grapple with the text, I do still think that repentance is a key theme, a theme that Jesus’ ministry also emphasized (see Matt 4:17, 11:20, 12:41) as did the apostles throughout the book of Acts.
And I do believe, firmly, that we are to be like Jonny B., pointing the flock toward Christ, preparing the way so that others might be On the Way… despite what some may perceive as toe-steppin'.
As I read somewhere, if they can't stand the heat, then lift up dem feet...
Rick in Va
My dear friends,
The following is a long entry, so please, if you choose not to read it, please engage in copious use of the scroll key. For those of you who choose otherwise, accept it as a gift of love from someone whom I love so very much. For those of you who feel I have self-indulged and wish to say so, please don't do it here. Tell me directly and allow others to continue with the text at hand. My address follows. Thanks.
Sarah, spent a good portion of her adolescent years caring for Frank, her alcoholic father. Lacy, Sarah's mother might have helped her some, but you see, Lacy was not above getting drunk from time to time as well. So, Sarah lived a life of wiping their faces as they hung their head down into places where heads were not meant to go, and coping the best way that she could. At the old age of 15, she fell in love with a first generation Italian-American named Mick. She became pregnant, dropped out of high school and moved from Macon, Georgia to Opelika, Alabama, where Mick was a freshman at Auburn University. Sarah was deeply in love with Mick. She was enamored by his rugged good looks and his Italian heritage. But more than anything, she was just glad to escape from the hell in which she had lived, if one could call her existence living.
However, now she was free and now, finally, she could experience her life. Finally, she could be the person she wanted to be. And from her flesh, a miracle was brought forth in Opelika, the miracle of a child. New life! New promise! Perhaps even an end to the tragedy in which she had spent so many years. For it was there that Sarah gave birth to a baby boy, a baby boy who looked just like Mick. A baby boy who was delivered at Lee County hospital. And wonder of wonders, her son was healthy. Unfortunately, Sarah didn't do as well and a week later she was still in the hospital when Frank, her father, came for them.
Frank, was certainly no man of God. Still, he revered his protestant roots and would have no daughter or grandson of his attached to a "dirty, Catholic Wop," so he took them back to Georgia. Mick was in class at the time and only learned they were gone when he showed up at the hospital a few hours later, and surprise, surprise, no wife and no son.
After a frantic discussion with the hospital staff, Mick realized what had occurred. He rushed to his car and made a wild four hour drive back to Macon, Georgia. There was no interstate at that time and he bounced along pot-holed roads and screeched around corners, flying past stands of pine trees and rain scarred hills of red Georgia clay. Over and over he played out the scene before him. He didn't know how he would do it, but he knew he had to return to Georgia, had to return for his wife and son. And there, at the home of Sarah's mother and father, Mick was met at the property-line by a gun wielding Frank who assured Mick that Mick would leave the property. Frank didn't care if Mick left dead or alive, but he would leave, and he would leave without Sarah and the baby.
Now, Frank was a very influential person in Macon. He was a skilled and respected civil engineer who headed one of the premier engineering companies in Georgia. He had been a prime mover in designing and constructing an air navigation system in the 1950s, making it possible for the southeastern United States to begin to attract industry and create jobs. He moved in high circles and had many friends who were judges and politicians. He had friends who wielded power, friends who were important. Frank was a very influential person. Indeed, Frank was a modern day Sadducee, respectable, powerful, significant.
Back in 1956, the son of a first generation Italian immigrant didn't have many legal rights. As Mick stood there starring down the barrel of that gun and he realized - he truly realized … there was nothing, nothing he could do … so, Mick left.
And except for a short period of time when his son was 2 years old, Mick did not see his son again until 1992, and he would never hear the child call him "Dad."
The years went by and the lives of all unfolded, sometimes in ways which could never have been predictable, but time refused to wait, and their lives did unfold. Initially, all of Frank's friends stood by him -- all of the other Pharisees and Sadducees, sure of their righteousness, sure of their rightness, the judge of their own actions in the court of patrimonial pride. But by and by, slowly, year by year, Frank's friends drifted away. For it seemed that any sin was forgivable, any sin was allowable, if only one could maintain the right cultural look, and that look was the look of success. Yet, even a son of Abraham could not face the relentless assault of alcohol. Eventually, it destroyed Frank's business, it destroyed Frank's reputation, and it almost destroyed his life. Lacy and Frank found themselves right down on the very bottom.
But one thing about the bottom - it is a very good place to pray.
And in the wilderness, in the lostness, in the powerlessness of the gutter, he heard the call of hope. The Kingdom of heaven is near. Repent and heal. Repent and live. Repent and take each day, one day at a time, one day at a time. Eventually, through the love of God expressed by people who would not abandon him, Frank finally did make it out of his alcoholic hell. The flames which burn the chaff came close, but instead, he was consumed by the inferno of the Spirit.
And by the time he died, he celebrated his 27th year of alcohol free life. But more importantly, during this time, he had founded three alcoholic's anonymous chapters and two narcotics anonymous chapters. His efforts and love aided literally hundreds of people in escaping alcohol and drug addiction. On the day of his funeral, over 400 people showed up to celebrate his life and to tell their stories of how he had impacted their lives. Frank, the monster who had hated so much that he was willing to destroy his daughter's family, through God's miraculous transforming love, had become a neighbor to all. Through the miracle of prayer, the connection of the community, and the grace of God, he had born the worthy fruit, the fruit of a transformed life, the fruit of a life of love.
You see, I know this story well because the child who had been born to Sarah and Mick, the child who had been kidnapped by a drunken gun wielding monster, the child who would not live with its biological father, that child, is me. And Frank, saint and neighbor to all, was my Grandfather.
"The Kingdom of heaven is near..."
Shalom my friends, Nail-Bender in NC rccandcc@carolina.net
True repentance is so difficult ... how many times have I been honestly sorry, with a truly repentant spirit, but have not been able to change my selfish ways? How can I preach repentance to a group of people who are in the same boat? What does repentance really mean? I turn away from sin and toward God every day ... but I still want my way around the house, I still am "the expert" on child-rearing issues, I still leave the dirty dishes in the sink for my husband to do.
I give up! I can't do it! Maybe God can. I think of the C.S. Lewis story in "Voyage of the Dawn Treader," chapter VII (Narnia) in which Aslan undresses Eustace from his dragon skin,layer by layer by layer until he is "a boy again," and baptised in healing waters: "The very first tear he made was so deep that I thought it had gone right into my heart. And when he began pulling the skin off, it hurt worse than anything I've ever felt .... then he caught hold of me ... and threw me into the water. It smarted like anything but only for a moment. After that it became perfectly delicious ...."
Lord Jesus, toss me with your winnowing fork. Lift me up and store my wheat to feed your people; burn up the chaff until nothing is left but ashes and smoke. Come quickly, Lord, to refine and purify this sin-full servant!
Kay
Some thoughts on winnowing and judgment ("turn or burn" or "turn AND burn"?):
John gives us the image of winnowing grain. It is a process whereby grain is threshed. The grain is trampled by oxen, horses or other instruments, and the straw is broken up. To separate the grain from the hulls and straw the whole mess is thrown against the wind by means of a wooden shovel, or else a two- or three-pronged fork, with a handle three or four feet long. The wind carries the chaff away, while the grain falls to the ground. The grain is then sometimes sifted after the winnowing process and then stored. The chaff is burned.
The One who is coming, John tells us, is carrying a winnowing fork in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and will gather his wheat into the granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. Sounds a lot like fear-filled judgment of the “turn or burn” variety.
Can we see this judgment, not as a “turn or burn” sort, but rather as a “turn AND burn” kind? This judgment—-this winnowing of God’s—-is like God’s grace lifting us and throwing us into the air where the wind can carry away the chaff of our lives-—those things which keep us from being all God wants us to be—-and allow the grain of our lives to fall and be used to become bread for the world. For every time we hear the Good News and we turn toward the Lord, we are lifted by the divine winnowing fork and the chaff is exposed for the wind to carry away, leaving the grain, the substance of our life together in Christ. The chaff will be burned with unquenchable fire-—a fire of divine forgiveness. And nothing in God’s creation is ever wasted. Nothing in our lives is ever wasted. The fire of forgiveness may just be the heat needed to bake the bread. And so the chaff of our lives is not wasted; God takes the fire of forgiveness to use it too.
LC in NY
Especailly to: Joe in Maine
appreciate your comments about Advent being a time of waiting and listening. Am thinking about combioning Gospel and Isiah as two sides of coin- needing to hear the word and the call to repentance; then giving time to savor the image of those results .... any comments?
Meant to sign last comment directed to Joe in Maine.... RevRuth
I am not preaching on 12/6 so my reason for writing is without hidden or other agenda: it is to say thanks. I have not input much over the months but I have read a lot. I learned quite late in the week that I was to preach on I Advent, 11/29. With a wedding and various other things going on that weekend, I had precious little time for homily preparation. The help that I got from the exchanges on this site was outstanding. Good thing we don't have plagiarism laws here (we don't, do we?) because ladies and gentlemen, I gave some of your ideas a public hearing this past Sunday. I learned a great deal about Advent (and that's after twenty-five years of preaching) and the homily was very well received. Just wanted to thank you. --Bill in TN
Just a few thoughts to continue the dialogue on repentance. So much of the time, when persons talk about repentance, they are too focused on themselves. They spend too long looking in the mirror and not long enough looking towards God. Repentance isn't about me, me, me. It is about God. True repentance is concerned with the Amazing Grace of God more so than how much we continue to mess things up.
I think that is what I find so appealing about this text. Everyone who came to see John at the Jordan must have had some idea what they were getting into. Out there in the wilderness was this unkempt and rowdy man who kept spouting off all kinds of things about axes, fires, and vipers. Yet, they still came. Recognizing something that was missing in their lives they came to John to be filled by what God had to offer through him. The fact that this process begins with repentance is indicative of the One who filled their needs. God is the one who cares enough about creation not to leave us alone in our misery and shame, but calls us to a deeper relationship. So they came to get a fresh start, a bath, a beginning. What a great way to begin anew our journey to the manger!
TIM in Florida
A CHRISTMAS FRUITBASKET. As I was meditating on this passage, I was thinking about the word "fruit" used here with "fruit of repentance" -- I started thinking about what kind of fruit that might be...what in the world IS the fruit of repentance? That phrase made me think of the "fruit of righteousness" (which Isaiah lists in 11:1-10 and the "fruit of the spirit". With that thought, I ran a search in my Quick Verse on "righteousness." To make room for the fruitfulness of the spirit, dead trees, vines, branches have to be pruned. It sounds so cruel, but really, it is not. It is a promise -- if you trim off the old dead growth, new shoots will sprout! Righteousness is really impossible apart from God -- so God has arranged a "special delivery" package for us...wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger. The righteousness of God has been given to us. Turn around! (Repent/make room) Receive it! So this "bad news" is really "good news" -- pruning/preparation time is here, but only so we can be ready for the outpouring of the Spirit and the promise of fruitfulness. I also noticed that in the OT, references to righteousness almost always were coupled with justice. If righteousness is basically our relationship with God, then justice is our relationship with others...sharing our good fruit with others. Yum. Harry and David didn't think of it first. God did! Happy Advent. RevKK
Oh yeah. I got interrupted while I was posting my previous remarks...I forgot to mention that Hebrews 12:11ff showed up when I was searching on "fruit" The writer is talking about how discipline seems grevious at first, but then yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness...so "make straight paths" he/she says...then even talks about repentance! I thought that was a neat discovery. You guys probably already knew all that. But if not, check it out! It is like the Hebrews author was talking about the same thing. RevKK
To Rev. Ruth. Ruth, half the time I don't really know what I'm talking about. I just ramble on...in a track that seems comfortable...hoping that someting really terrific will emerge. I made a retreat in October that was the best one I made in years. The retreat master was very easy on us. He started by telling us to just float like an inflated baloon. Most of the time people are hard on themselves. THis is not good news to preachers, who are usually convinced that people need to be TOLD! But I got so much from this retreat I am convinced that it is the best starting point...for a new liturgical year: "How pleased God is with you. Poor struggling Mankind...can't you believe how much God loves you?" That is good news. And people rarely hear it. It is like a pat on the back that does such wonders for employees. Now how I am going to tie all this in with the readings...that is another question. And whether I will be thinking this way come Sat., that, too, is another question. God love! Joe from Maine
Reflect on 3:11 and 3:12 for a moment and then tie it in with the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. How many of us are helping to encourage and prepare God's people for the Second coming of the Lord? How many of God's people in our midst are ready to meet the Lord at the time of death and their own resurrection. How many love the Lord with all of their heart, soul, mind, and strength? How many love their neighbor as themselves? How many have really accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts, studied the Bible daily, prayed daily, tithe offering, visit the sick, nursing home residents, those in prison. Are the people who God has called us to serve denying themselves daily, taking up the cross, and following Jesus? Are the people of God (young or old) ready when their time comes to meet the Lord? We had an interesting discussion today in a UM pastors meeting about the Second coming. We need not so much to be preaching about the babe in the manger who came the first time but the divine Christ who is coming in glory again. The tiny babe is God's promised gift of love to us and what a wonderful promise that Jesus Christ fulfilled on Easter morning! Sorry about my ramblings, but when Jesus comes again he won't be the sweet little baby in the manger but "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" Rick in ND
Wilderness/Deserts within the sacred space/time comprising our life stories, (the currere or curriculum race we have run in our spirituality), contain the events of rivers and seas we need to cross... even when the waters at first do not part until we step again into the waters depths and it finally rises to our nostrils. Faith is the act of sticking one's nostrils, with Moses, as high out of the water as one can and then taking another step into the deep. It is then that the waters part. [From an Hasidistic parable retelling the Exodus crossing the 'waters' even with the Egyptian army in deadly pursuit.} I find in the life story, whether in Alabama or LA or wherever, the reality of scriptural revelation making the miracle of divine intervention. In John the Baptist I meet both Moses and Elijah calling me to a desert journey in quest of a 'promised/covenant' land flowing with the 'milk' needed to make for strong growth and the 'honey' essential to the sweet taste of life. The highway in the desert is the 'holy' way. When Moses, Elijah, and John minister to me in my struggle they point beyond in anticipatory relation to the King and the Kingdom coming. I hope I don't miss the coming land of covenant promise because my eyes have been too fixed on my "going to heaven" rather than the 'stranger' who "comes" to me in the form of a 'suffering servant' so identified with the imprisoned, the hungry, the naked, etc., that he did not appear in the form that I desired/prefered! This scripture unveils my venture in Walking the Glory Road by calling me to the connection between social holiness and personal holiness. If I stay too close to the conventional modes of faith exclusively within the walls of the Church without a realization of the hurting pain-filled world outside, I perhaps will miss the one born as an outcast who brings the ending of endings and all eternity near in his 'coming'. As the country song asks, "What if Jesus came back like that?"...in the hobo sleeping under the town bridge, in the 'crack/drug' addicted infant, in all the suffering of humanity! I appreciate the life story revealing the human struggle and the transformation, the deserts and the promised land, the baptism and the eschatological coming of the Christ. In this and every life journey I believe there is a correlation, a bridge, a connection between the personal transformation and the discovery of service to others. Christ makes Advent in our transmission of life, in our giving ourselves away, for others. Before scripture ever became dead ink marks on a printed page, ever word has already been written by the blood of Christ on our hearts. The space/time of our life stories do not stand separate from the eternal love from whom we come, in whom we live and move and have our being, and unto whom we return in our final ending. PaideiaSCO in swampland LA where there are many burning-sand deserts.
Doug - the Porter story is familiar, but that won't help you, will it? I think I saw it in a collection of stories with a real generic name like "Christmas Stories" . . sorry. Betsy - thanks for the wilderness stuff. Was musing about repentence, and whose responsibility it is to tell people what they are "spozed ta" repent of, when I scrolled across your desert. Then it occurred to me that times of clarity and turning are often associated with the desert - either the wilderness of reaching the end of our own resources - or an intentional retreat to a "deserted" place where we can be alone with God. I'm trying to think of a time when a preacher has preached about sin in a way that has caused me to turn from mine . . can't remember any. But there have been times when, in preaching, someone has shared a view of the greatness of God that has given me such a longing that I have known that I am a person of unclean everything. I guess that's the way I want to point when I preach. Also, the most life-changing awarenesses of my own sin and hopelessness have also been instantaneously suffused with an overwhelming sense of God's forgiving love- maybe that has something to do with the combination of delight and fear of the Lord that we were talking about in the OT site. kbc in sc - kculp@awod.com
Read more carefully - Joe from Maine already covered the territory - thanks. kbc again
LC in NY...
thanks for taking us through the process of sorting out, purifying..... the task of getting to the heart of the matter the product.. winnowing, etc.... helps us remember that in God's economy nothing is wasted, nothing is "lost" to God's plan... nice touch..
kbc in SC how right you are....... I think that more souls are attracted to the Lord by the beautiful words of Love and acceptance of us..just as we are....than the stern warnings, and the Blame and "shame" threatening language... There is a time and place for that... but ohhh how the Church has been over-identified with the temperature and furniture of a place of punishment.. the fire and brimstone. Think of how we have been won to an idea or a loving relationship... than scared into one..
Praise the Lord, for I was lost and God found me, God never gave up on me, sought me out and comforts me in loving arms.
Don Hoff, Elmira, NY
On Repentance. Three years ago, the gentlemen that handled the time-out room at school was a black preacher. When the kids were sent to SMA (Self Management Area), he would show them in the Bible where it talked about sin, and tell them they needed to repent. This is information from a member of mine who worked at the school before I got there. The minister is no longer employed there, although he comes back to volunteer.
More than once, I have thought that what these kids need is a good dose of John the Baptist (so do their parents). The sins they commit are too numerous to mention, and I probably COULDN'T mention all of them.
However, it is not to the homeless, broken-family, despairing, welfare receipents, that John the Baptist addresses his comments. It is to the church people, the Sunday-go-to-meeting Christians (aka Sadducees and Pharisees), who leave God in the pews every Sunday -- these are the ones John tells to repent.
From "The Christmas People," by J. Ellsworth Kalas, Abingdon, Nashville, 1998, p. 25: "Some four hundred years ago, Martin Luther chided a congregation: 'there are many of you in this congregation who think to yourselves: 'If only I had been there! How quick I would have been to help the baby! I would have washed his linen.' . . . If you had been there at that time you would have done no better than the people of Bethlehem. . . .Why don't you do it now? You have Christ in your neighbor. You ought to serve him, for what you do to your neighbor in need you do to the Lord Christ himself.'(Roland Bainton, The Martin Luther Christmas Book, [Philadelphia:Fortress Press, 1948])."
(How's that for a quote within a quote??!)
I think repentance is important. This old world isn't going to change unless someone repents, changes their ways, and starts living as Christ wants us to. Who better to do that than Christians? Unless, of course, we want to admit that the Hindus, and Muslims, and Jews (and maybe even those darn Catholics) might be better at it than we Methodists.
Greg in Nashville, a man I once worked for had a favorite saying. He thought it was from Eisenhower: "Any change is implied criticism of the past." Yes, the changes you are suggesting probably do threaten your people because they think it means what they've done before was wrong, or not good enough. Isn't that what John is saying in this passage? Isn't that why Jesus came into the world -- to change the world?
Repent! The kingdom of God is at hand! What an opportunity we have to show the Lord our God that we really mean what we preach, what we say we believe.
From The Handbook of Life Application, Tyndale House, Wheaton, IL, 1992, p. 524-525:
"Repentance opens the way for relationship with God. Repentance has two sides--turning away from sins and turning toward God. [Nail-Bender what a beautiful illustration.] To be truly repentant, we must do both. We can't just say that we believe and then live any way we choose; neither can we simply live a morally correct life with out a personal relationship with God, because that cannot bring forgiveness from sin.
Repentance demonstrates real faith. Confession of sins and a changed life are inseparable."
Your "old" (had my 50th birthday) friend,
RevJan
Hi folks:
I'm focusing on the idea of repentance, and I like the idea that we have interpreted this with a little too much "me" at the centre - always looking into the mirror. Is not repentance a "looking out" in a brand new way? Repentance -- turning around 180 degrees, and what do we see? We are invited to see the reign of God that has come near. How is Christ present in our world today? Where can we point to and say, "See, I tolf you> God is present in our world, involved in many wonderful endeavours. God and humanity -- partners. What is the incredible new vista that we can point our hearers to this Sunday? how can we be co-creators with God in this season of Advent, helping to build the reign of God that may be as small as a mustard seed, but is growing in our midst? What do you think??
LC in Ny... Thanks again for the winnowing process and imagery! I couldn't help but think about how much the process of winnowing depends on "wind" to separate the grain from the chaff. The images make we wonder about the role of the Holy Spirit (wind et. al.) in our own processes of the separation of our sinful self (chaff) and our fruits of repentance (grain.) I've often thougt of sin as being that which "weighs" us down, but in this text the light chaff is what is blown away and the good heavy grain is what falls back down on the grainery floor. Great discussion so far as to this text. The focus is on our turning and not on our just waiting to see what will come. BRS in WI
Anyone who did "copiously use the scroll" key to hurry past NailBender's post should re-think that decision. His was (is) a story that get's to the heart of what the Church ought to be about. Thanks NailBender!
RevJan,
Like fine wine... you know the rest. Happy (Belated) Birthday!
Rick in Va
Good stuff, brothers and sisters. I have been especially captured by what Rick in ND had to say about our preparing God's people for the Second Coming of our Lord. I don't deny the "BIG" Second coming, but I also think we hold mini-rehearsals for the Big Event every time we gather as the People of God... give me some line here....
I guess that is what I always thought the incarnation was all about -- Jesus came once as a tiny baby and our "replay" of it each year is to remind us that we take him into our hearts and then leave our warm, beautifully candlelit churches to go out into the world "enfleshed" with Jesus, as Jesus' hands and feet and presence in the communities in which we live.
The John-the-Baptist surprise here is that it IS us! Like Rev. Jan says, "it is not the homeless, broken-family despairing, welfare recipients, that John the Baptist addresses his comments. It is to the church people, the Sunday-go-to-meeting Christians (aka Sadduces and Pharisees) who leave God in the pews every Sunday -- these are the ones John tells to repent."
You know how we are so uncomfortable receiving a compliment? We physically turn around to see who else is there the complimentor is speaking to, and everyone laughs to relieve the tension? Cousin John tells us to repent, and we TURN AROUND to see who else he is talking to -- it couldnt be ME!!!
(I don't think that is the "turning" of which he spoke!)
And here RevJan's Martin Luther quote comes in... "'If only I had been there!...' ...Why dont you do it now? You have Christ in your neighbor..." And you are Christ FOR your neighbor.
No, Rick in ND was right. When Jesus comes again he won't be the sweet little baby in the manger... look in the mirror.
Preacherlady
In this Advent time of waiting, preparing, repenting, turning -- a song comes to mind by Curtis Mayfield:
People get ready there's a train a comin', You don't need no baggage you just get on board, All you need is faith to hear the diesel humming, You don't need no ticket you just thank the Lord.
People get ready for the train to Jordan, They're picking up passengers coast to coast, Faith is the key -- open the door and board them, There's hope for all amongst those loving most.
There ain't no room for the hopeless sinners, Who would hurt all the world just to save their souls, Have pity on those whose chances grow thinner, For there's no hiding place against the kingdom's throne.
(ABC Paramount 1965; copyright 1964 Curtom Publishing Co. Ltd.)
Who would want to be left when the train leaves the station? Preparing for that train is not packing a suitcase, but rather preparation is in turning from the role of the hopeless sinner. In the end, you just get on board!
Aloha, HW in HI
After scrolling through rather quickly, i am sorry for missing last week. we had hanging of the greens, and i wasn't planning to preach. i am truly desperate this week too as so much is happening at once. my initial question is also on the bearing fruits - weren't the pharisees the ones so dedicated to bearing the right religious fruit? being wholey righteous, and yet, they are called vipers. why? i always think because they missed out on the people. a woman called me the other day (i don't know this woman) and said she had heard i had a wedding of someone who had been married 5 times and she didn't think the church should have anything to do with such people. where was my brain that i didn't ask her to read John 4, then tell me that. what fruits are we looking for. i think love and forgiveness.
my other question is that we are lighting the candle of peace. how does it fit in today?
thank you all so much for sharing your ideas.
rachel (ps RevJan, my 40th is next week!)
Just wanted to share an idea that occured to me in Bible Study this week. I used a recording of Handle's Messiah to invite the participants to reflecct. The movement I choose was: Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God; speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem; and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned. The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
The reflection was to prepare the way of the Lord requires reorientation of our lives (repentance)and that is scarey and painful. Yet, Isaiah (40:1-5) couples this reorientation indeed winnowing of our lives with: Comfort, O comfort my people. How profound! Yes, this is a very difficult message to proclaim because it requires discomfort in order to truly know comfort. May God grant us all the grace and the strength to proclaim this blessing this week.
Pam
kbc in sc - your comment sent me to our local library - found the Porter story - appropriately titled "A Christmas Story," drawings by Ben Shahn, a Seymour Lawrence Book, Delacorte Press, New York, 1967. Thanks - Doug in Riverside
It's interesting to note that in the Isaiah passage, the cry doesn't just come from the wilderness, the cry is to make the paths straight "in the wilderness." I wonder where that wilderness might be and wonder how we might make those paths straight. As PaideiaSCO pointed out (thank you my friend), could it be under the town bridge, the homes around us that look nothing like houses? Might it be in the hell of addiction suffered by those beautiful "crack children," God's children who are adult and infant alike? Might the wilderness be anywhere there is the suffering of humanity? It might be there where we are called to make the paths straight for the Lord, because it is there where he is found most often.
It seems to me that until we seek to meet the brokeness in those little ones, we will never meet the brokeness of the Christ. And until we meet the brokeness of the Christ, the same brokeness which dwells within our own souls, we will never be transformed to compassion -- the compassion, the fruit, of repentance.
Jesus clearly tells us again and again, that he is not the God who aligns himself with the structures of power, but he is the God of the underside. He comes not with trumpet blasts and banners of gold, but comes heralded by a wild man in a hair coat, gorging himself on grasshoppers and nectar. He is not about winning, he is about losing. He is not about strength, he is about weakness. He is not about force, he is about love. His might is the might which endures suffering on the behalf of the other. His might is the might which endures, the might of waiting with and being with the one in the wilderness, the one in hell, because it is there where the Spirit comes. His might is the might of Advent.
Bear ye the fruits -- the fruits of love, the fruits worthy of repentance.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
My fine fellow sojourners,
Thank you all so much for making this a life giving and rich exchange of ideas, passion, and love. Your inputs are so valuable as we all struggle in this sojourn together. I was once again reminded of this today, when Laurie from California, wrote and named me friend. Indeed, she was right. We have all been named friend and have all been connected together.
Shalom my friends, Nail-Bender in NC
Nail-Bender (and all you other UM's)
Do you think DPS is what our forebearer's had in mind when they named it the "Connectional System?"!
Rachel,
The names of the Advent candles are not set. The UM Book of Worship doesn't even name them. I've found dozens of services, few with the same order of lighting (e.g., hope, peace, joy, love; Prophet, Bethlehem, Shepherd, Angels, etc.). A new song published by Abingdon has the second candle as the candle of truth, although I've NEVER seen a litany with THAT in it!
I do think that Peace comes when we repent and turn our attention to the lifestyle to which Jesus calls us. I don't know what I did with my Robert MacGregor lesson for this week, but he points out that the peaceable kingdom pictured in Isaiah comes only after the lion eats the lamb -- peace is won with violence. I don't know if I agree with him 100%, but it is certain that the change ain't gonna be easy!
RevJan
To: Joe in Maine, Thanks again for musings.... was interested in your Retreat...where, what, etc. If you care to e-mail me info., I'd appreciate. We, too, have done several recently and are interested in others..thanks! Also may be working on this sermon yet on Saturday!@!
revruth@salisbury.net
To; Pam,...right on,...Comfort requires discomfort...still seems to me that we need to combine the Isaaih and the Gospel texts this week... the two sides of the coin....we cannot have one side all the time; can't have it one way all the time; can't have one without the other. Yes, we need to hear the good news and come away with the good news...how do we preach the DIS-comfort and still
come away with comfort?? revruth (must be birthday
week- 55 this week!)
Friends- thanks for the contributions in this and Isaiah text..
looking at this text with some of our staff we asked What Will the Peaceabale Kingdom be like?.... comes out to WWIBL......say that couple of times..... word has a certain bounce to it doesn't it?
We each are taking some time to try to envision that.... being poetic, and being practical.. Might ask the people in the pews to try that.
Previously, i mentioned Mary Lou Walker, who wroter a song.... some persons want references and the words...
Peaceable Kingdom In the peaceable Kingdom, the wolf and the lamb Share their grass with the ox and the ram, Young goats sleeping by the leopard's side, There's nothing to fear and nothing to hide. Refrain- Love in the peaceable Kingdom Love in the Kingdom of peace Love in the peaceable Kingdom Love in the Kingdom of peace
In the peaceable Kingdom, the grizzly bear Tends the calf with loving care Old cow feeding the lion's child And nothing is bad and nothing is wild.
In the peaceable Kingdom the baby plays By the serpent's den on the summer days All the creatures sweet and mild led by a little one, led by a child
Mary Lu Walker copyright 1978 OSV Music, Huntington, Ind 46750
if you need to know more feel free to write me
Donaldhoff@aol.com
We have 15 minutes of Praise songs before the service.... that works better than having therm stay 15 minutes longer (can't figure that out.... 59 minute services must be Scriptural) the songs we use this week will focus on changing hearts.......... Sanctuary, Change My Heart, Lord I Want to be a Christian...... any other suggestions ? This will be Eucharist celebration....
Don Hoff, Elmira, NY
..., change that.. What will the peaceabale Kingdom be like?....
"What Will It Be Like" (Peaceable Kingdom) comes out to WWIBL......say that couple of times..... word has a certain bounce to it doesn't it?
RE: Prophecy ... The task of the prophet is to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. An old seminary definition, but certainly one that applies to these Advent texts -- and might serve to connect Isaiah and Matthew. Isaiah comforting the people in exile .... John, afflicting the comfortable in Jerusalem. It could work!
Don: Consider "I Will Change Your Name" for "Praise Song du jour."
I will change your name, You shall no longer be called, Wounded, Outcast, Lonely or Afraid. I will change your name, Your new name shall be Joyfulness, Confidence, Overcoming One, Faithfulness, Friend of God, One Who Seeks My Face.
Maybe that's what the Kingdom looks like. Maybe that's why the journey through the wilderness is worth it. Advent blessings to you all. Keep us, if you will, (the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles) in your prayers weekend as we meet for annual Diocesan Convention. Blessings, Susan in SanPedro
Advent Greetings to all -- I just want to thank you all for your words, your journeying together, for the sense of community that I am finding here. I have chosen to do my first sermon series (departing from the lectionary) on the "Great Expectations" of Advent/Christmas. Even though I'm not preaching the lectionary texts, I find that I am drawn into this conversation, the wrestling with the text. It will make my preparation for Christmas much more full... especially as I remember to deal with some expectations of God for us (as revealed through our lectionary texts during advent) that I might not be as comfortable with. Thank you all for sharing your time, your thoughts, your wisdom, your struggles... and yourselves here. You have all enriched the life and ministry of this young preacher in the hills of TN. God Bless... and Happy Birthday to all of you out there celebrating. :-) RevAmy
Susan in SanPedro
thanks for the lead to "I Will Change Your Name" for "Praise Song du jour." ..I'll look and see where i can get those....
Are we required in Advent to list our nacimiento on DPS? Everyone is getting into the act.... let's all shout it out and brag how good God is to us and given us these years!!! ok.... 35 this past week..... (wait..... that's the number of pounds I've gained this year....)... no..here it is 61 in November.
Don Hoff elmira, NY donaldhoff@aol.com
Joe in Maine said, "I think advent is a time for resting in the Lord, for opening, for getting rid of inner tensions, for expectation." Speaking of getting rid of inner tensions, I've been reading a book by psychotherapist Marvin Allen called, "Angry Men, Passive Men" (formerly titled "In the Company of Men"). Most men find it difficult to get what's inside them expressed out in the open, especially anger and grief. They have learned since childhood that doing so is destructive or hurtful or has bad consequences. This is not true, according to Allen. (We would say, "It's a lie that comes from the Father of Lies"). Many men have seen the destructiveness in their father or mother, and their restraint reaction has become so automatic that they are passive or numb and unable to feel anything, or emotionally volcanic, exploding now and then. Allen does groups with men where he helps them grieve and get angry and fully express themselves emotionally in a safe environment. As they learn to react differently to stimuli, they are able to heal their relationships with family and friends. What I like about Johnny B. is that no one can accuse him of being restrained. He was about as expressive as you can get. And angry, with rebukes galore. Why are we so quick with forgiveness and salve and comfort, before the venom fully is out of people's systems? These things take time, but we have no time nowadays. Pity. Jim from B.C.
LC in NY Was thinking on your comments and others about John. John was a turn or burn preacher. Think of this John did not know Jesus, his focus was on a messiah of prophecy; abeit Jewish tradition of the messiah ruled his mind..Fruits worthy of repentance for John Return to Torah, follow the Law of Moses..I believe we fail the gospel of Jesus when we try to change John..John was calling for a return not a turn No easy way out this week John says, "Turn or Burn" no other way to Go..Now find the God news of Jesus John was not quit right
Rich in NC
Susan in San Pedro... could you give me a place to look for the "song du jour" "I will change your name" please.... gail in Berkeley (gail.cromack@gte.net, if that's easier). Thanks. Still struggling with Matthew 3, thanks for all the help. (The fellowship is great too). gail
Am thinking about setting this week's sermon in the manger... awaiting the arrival of Mary and Joseph are lambs, lions, sheep, and snakes.... all with their own very natural agendas.... not too peaceful-yet. But, necessarily living together....the story changes as the new parents arrive and they observe the birth, love, and potential for peace ..... anyone care to keep this idea moving?
Anyone ever get asked, "why do you have to read about John the Baptist this time of year?" ? Why do we need Advent, anyway? It's not in the Bible. The colors are all wrong.
For me, John the Baptist is "Mr. Advent," and makes the season extremely scriptural. God did not just plop a messiah down on the earth. The way needed to be prepared! Hearts needed turning in the right direction.
No, not everybody needs Advent. If the commercial or Ideals magazine version of Christmas is all they want, then for heaven's sake, don't get near the wilderness! But personally, I want more. I need to lay the ax to things in me that have gotten old and fruitless. I need the cleansing, healing, wind and fire. I need a true new birth in me again this year.
I'm tired of hearing discussions of Advent and Christmas as if they were opposed. The only thing Advent threatens is an aculturarated and diluted Christmas.
I DON'T get up in arms about "singing carols too, soon," etc., but if people don't get John the Baptist in church where are they going to get him? Certainly, not in the dept. stores! In fact, why not rejoice in one biblical image that has NOT been co-opted?! Why should we only celebrate the things that Madison Ave. has been able to figure out and capitalize on?
Why don't I get offline before I REALLY start ranting?
pHil (last year -Nov. 97- I turned 42, a much more poetic disclosure than what I could offer this year)
All this talk of change reminds me of a joke. How many United Methodists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Answer: Change? My grandfather donated that lightbulb!
revup (who crashed into the big 50 this year.
Couldn't help myself this year...St Nicholas Day falling on a Sunday and all...so, yup, we're going to give the old guy a nod in worship with some fun and some seriousness. The legends of St Nicholas speak of a person who wanted to live the fruit of repentance in compassion and generosity, toward the poor, and in particular, to poor women, The story about his assistance to the family (maybe for the dowry) of poverty stricken women, can be told with an eye to the options for them. One interpretation says they were spared a life of prostitution or slavery by his generosity and compassion.
In Canada we mark the sixth of December as the anniversary of "The Montreal Massacre" when thirteen female engineering students were slaughtered because they were women. And we observe this day with the determination to end violence - against women in particular.
Repentance, Compassion, Generosity, working for the peaceable kingdom, St Nicholas, ...good weavings for an advent day, I suggest. Just Musing in Ontario
What does it mean to truly confess of your sins?
Am I confessing my own separation from God, my estrangement from his will - in which case I am always a sinner for I cannot bridge the gap between my will and His? Or am I confessing the times I am selfish, times when I lie, etc. - at which case I am always doing so, and can't break out into a life of grace? Or am I confessing my total dependency on God, that without him, I remain in my sin(s)? Please offer some guidance. Thank you.
tom in ga
For tom in ga,
Here are a few simple thoughts on confession, (take them for whatever they are worth!)
In my own experience, and the experience of some near- saints I know, it seems that the more time we spend with God, the more we become aware of our sinfulness, our distance. And so we adjust our behavior, we confess our sinfulness. We stop eating from the dumpster just because we can, and begin to eat from the banquet -- albeit just a nibble or two. Over time, our transgressions decrease, but we are more painfully aware of those that are left. Our distance from God causes palpable pain, we try harder, succeed somewhat. We never quite get to where we enjoy the whole banquet Christ has given us, I'm guessing, but we come closer and closer. Actually, I take that back. There is a Maryknoll nun I know who is very nearly without sin. I am reasonably sure her orbit is very close to the Son....
Another thought. Perhaps six years ago my husband was traveling to Paris on business. One of his fellow travellers is a life-long Roman Catholic. They went to Notre Dame, and his friend was to say confession. But he did not. He turned away with tears in his eyes saying, "You have to be ready to change if you're going to say confession." Methinks that is a worthwhile explanation of what cheap grace isn't -- this fellow didn't want it cheap, he understood the price Christ had paid.
For pHil -- I find myself wanting to say that Advent is the way the church gets ready for Christmas. In the secular world we go Christmas shopping, in the sacred world we go Christ-preparing. Some of what happens in the secular world is probably unconscious Christ-preparing, as gifts are given in His name, goodwill is at an all time high, and like that.
Hope some of this is a bit helpful!
Aloha, HW in HI
To me, Advent means "getting ready for Jesus to come," to get ready to celebrate His first coming and to get ready for the second coming. Like Lent, it involves some soul searching and repentance. revup
Don Hoff:
How about "Into My Heart?" "Into my heat, into my heart, Come into my heart Lord Jesus. Come in today, come in to stay, Come into my heart, Lord Jesus."
The hard part is about Jesus staying in our hearts.
Found the stuff from McGregor:
Isaiah's vision of The Peaceable Kingdom to come restores Eden. There are no poor. There is no violence (after the wicked have been killed, that is). Netiher man nor beast kills to eat. (A Vegetarian Advent?) . . . The Peaceable Kingdom is announced in the Gospel by a hell-fire and damnation preacher. The kingdom of God can't come with out a fight. . . . God is picking a fight. It is a fight for the dispossessed. . . . The fight is with the wicked. The fight is not with wickedness, but with the wicked; not with sin, but with sinners, not with materialism, but with materialists; not with urban blight, but with blighters."
Imagine you were at your annual denominational meeting -- the ones we all love to attend -- and your Bishop/Elder/Whoever, stood up during the opening worship service and said "You brood of vipers! Who do you think you are? YOU are a sorry excuse for clergy! . . . You'd better change your ways. Those who don't will be out on their ears, those who do will be closely watched to see if they're faking it . . ." How would you feel, what would you think?
John is talking major upheaval here. Do you have earthquake insurance????
Just Musing in Ontario -- thanks for reminding us of St. Nicholas Day. Our kids are learning about German Christmas customs this year. This will help tie in the sermon -- St. Nicholas wanted to change the order of things and do something nice for someone who couldn't. . . . or something like that. I still have three days to think of it!
RevJan
Friends- thinking about resources.... We all have a number of teachers who have brought us along the way..... for me, as i prepare for Advent and Christian... I recall the impact that the writings of Edward Hays has had on me... I checked out the web site of his stuff and found it helpful.... http://www.forestofpeace.com/ see prayers on days during advent
Don Hoff Elmira, NY donaldhoff@aol.com
The reference to "dross" by Gary -New Bern reminded me of this prayer by Christina Rossetti: As the wind is your symbol, so forward our goings. As the dove, so launch us heavenwards. As water, so purify our spirits. As a cloud, so abate our temptations. As dew, so revive our languor. As fire, so purge out our dross. Amen. -AJM in PA
The "advent" experience may be heightened by a consciousness intervention through contemplation;... particularly contemplation stimulated by "Waiting For Godot", T.S. Eliot's "Chrouses From the Rock", and/or Archibald MacLeish's "J.B.". Two sermons by Paul Tillich also peel layers of consciousness back for me at this season of preparation helping me to wrestle profoundly with the paradox of the "absence-presence" dynamics in relationship with God:..one sermon on "Waiting" in which he defines waiting as meaning "not having and having at the same time";...."The condition of man's relation to God is first of all one of not having, not seeing, not knowing, not grasping. A religion in which that is forgotten, no matter how ecstatic or active or reasonable, replaces God by its own creation of an image of God.";....the other sermon, "Born in the Grave", tells about an event in a Jewish grave-yard, in Wilna, Poland, where persons were in hiding after escaping the gas chamber... A poet describing the eveent writes; "In a grave nearby a young woman gave birth to a boy. The eighty-year-old gravedigger, wrapped in a linen shroud, assissed. When the new-born uttered his first cry, the old man prayed; 'Great God, hast Thou finally sent the Messiah to us? For who else than the Messiah Himself can be born in a grave?' But after three days the poet saw the child sucking his mother's tears because she had no milk for him." ....Sometimes we wait for God in such a mode as not seeing the Sacred Presence in our suffering neighbor's face! Sometimes, somewhere in the absolute darkness, "When the candles in the Churches are out, and the lights have gone out in the sky", we can cry 'O Come, O Come, Emmanuel, and ransom captive Isreal that weeps in lonely exile here...until the Son of God appear' ...and behold joy is born out of a night made holy, a sorrow carved deep into our being. If we passively pass through Advent without the deep sorrow of getting down into the grave, I believe we will miss the Christ born to us in the grave/death/sin that hides the presence of God and declares his absence as never ending. The good news is that our darkness is not dark to him...he is on both sides of evry issue...and so out of darkness light appears...out of sorrow joy is born....out of death life emerges....out of absence Presence Comes...by his grace in the face of our helplessness and emptiness. To "wait" in the hard activity of emptying ourselves, as he emptied himself not claiming equality with God as a thing to be grasped, is the work to be done in this season of Advent.....I appreciate the questions of Tom as they guide/call me in 'quest' leading to 'bread/presence'...and to he reflections of Nail-bender who will not let me forget Hasidism's parable "there is one time it is appropriate to act as if there is no God...When I see my neighbor in need." Thank all of you for allowing me to share with you my wrestle with the Spirit, and our common struggle with the Spirit in Advent! PaideiaSCO in LA swampland with a desert to cross.
It is always refreshing to read the different comments about the text. Certainly stimulates the mind and aids my sermon preparation. Recently, while at Cokesbury in Raleigh (Yes, Lutherans do shop there!), I picked up a delightful book that I highly recommend. Called The Cultural World of Jesus, by John J. Pilch. Has brief commentary on each of the Gospel lessons for Cycle A. Gives great insights into the times of NT. Pilch is a prof at Georgetown Univ. The book printed by The Liturgical Press, Collegeville, MN. $11.95. John, from Fuquay-Varina, NC
re: nacimientos and Advent (thanks Don!)
Our Asian brothers and sisters "turn" one year older on the same day -- the new year -- regardless of the actual day of their birth.
What if we all celebrated our communal birth-days with Jesus -- what if we all "turned" one year older in the flesh on the Incarnation?
Preacherlady
Edward Schweizer's commentary on Matthew makes the point that the call to repent is central to both John and Jesus. But the story of the Baptist goes no fruther than confession. The gift of forgiveness comes form Jesus alone. The reality is that it is not the winnowing process that makes the difference. Throwing us all in the air to see who are chaff to be blown away and who are grain to drop to the ground to be saved will only result in all of us being blown away. [That is likely what the Baptist longed for] It is only the lifting into the air of the crucified body of the messiah that will make grain of us all.
Edward Schweizer's commentary on Matthew makes the point that the call to repent is central to both John and Jesus. But the story of the Baptist goes no fruther than confession. The gift of forgiveness comes form Jesus alone. The reality is that it is not the winnowing process that makes the difference. Throwing us all in the air to see who are chaff to be blown away and who are grain to drop to the ground to be saved will only result in all of us being blown away. [That is likely what the Baptist longed for] It is only the lifting into the air of the crucified body of the messiah that will make grain of us all.
Ron in FL
Dear Nail bender - thank you for your great courage that it must have taken to share your story with us. our theme this second sunday in advent is peace. and peace takes courage doesn't it? inner peace takes the courage of facing the demons and chaos inside to get rid of it. outer peace takes courage to not fight, to seek other means than hit 'em 1st and hard. thank you for your courage. May God bless you so much.
Joe in Maine and others, i too strongly believe that people are more able to change when they are loved and shown that they are capable of change. if i'm yelled at all the time i just hide under the bed (or whatever is close) but if i'm loved and encouraged i feel free risking something new. i think of two stories:
one a lady in my church, now deceased, tells of hopping on a train one time with soem friends. they were going to run away, a spur of the moment kind of thing. finally when they did get off and were scared to death, she called home. her mom had already died and her dad was raising several kids. as she waited she dreaded what her punishment would be, but her brother picked her up and took her home and didn't say a word about what she had done. just made sure she was okay. when she got home, instead of punishing her, her faher took her out to eat. she said that his loving her was much worse than any punishment because she felt so bad for hurting him. she resolved tonot do anything like that again.
another is my own congregation. when i came they were so down on themselves; why aren't we growing , what are we doing wrong. here were some very talented, very dedicated people of God. i came and kept lifting up the ministry they were doing, their strenghts their God given gifts. and now the church has almost doubled in attendance, and i'll be having the 5th baptism this year this sunday. God is so very good. God loves us.
sometimes we need john to open up those hiding places, but we then Jesus to save us so we don't wallow there.
thanks, rachel
The great liturgist, Marion Hatchett (still as feisty as ever in Sewanee TN) told of his "ideal" image of a baptismal font -- a huge rock, big enough to have water running down the rock and into a pool carved into it -- a pool big enough for immersion. This would combine some important images -- as he would say, "Oh, you know, room -- womb -- tomb." The "fortress" image of the upper room; the life and nurture and promise of the womb that bore Jesus (and the font as womb of new birth for us); and the cold rock of the tomb, where the stone was rolled away and Mary Magdala was told, "He is not here ... he is risen!"
In my previous cure the altar was a solid slab of granite (we were in "quarry country") and we put the creche' under the altar to piggyback on those images. The altar is a place of new life for us in many ways. And we DO see this new life in the shadow of the cross.
In Advent we are all pregnant with this new life. We must nurture ourselves not only so the new life is nurtured, but also so we will be strong enough to bear the birth pangs, to endure labor. This is a powerful image for the men to wear for awhile. Men who have witnessed their wives in childbirth often say, "if only I could have borne some of the pain for her." This is a rich way for them to "experience" their own labor pains.
I guess this kind of follows from the birthday train of thought. If you can't tell, I love the liturgical year. The rhythm of life in the liturgical year is so rich, so accurate, and it helps people participate in the "then" story in the here and now. Kindof like dancing with God and letting God lead.
Preacherlady
You walk into an empty room, but sense that someone is there. Suddenly, a figure leaps from behind the door and yells, "Boo." You flinch and your heart leaps into your throat. "Did I scare you?" "No," you lie, "you just startled me." So did the voice of John the Baptist startle the people of his day as it boomed from the wilderness, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
You walk into an empty room, but sense that someone is there. Suddenly, a figure leaps from behind the door and yells, "Boo." You flinch and your heart leaps into your throat. "Did I scare you?" "No," you lie, "you just startled me." So did the voice of John the Baptist startle the people of his day as it boomed from the wilderness, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
J.D. Ward, Oklahoma
To LC in NY and Ron in FL: I appreciate your comments on the winnowing fork of the Messiah. What better prayer for Advent than to ask that our chaff be blown away and burned up, so that only what is of substance may remain. "Lord of harvest, grant that we wholesome grain and pure may be." What a terror to think that once the blowing and burning is done, nothing might be left!
Bill in SoMD (another Baby-Boomer, 52 in Oct.)
I too am enamored with the idea that my chaff will be blown away by the wind of God's Holy Spirit.
I love being outdoors when a fresh breeze fills your lungs with air, air that is refreshing and necessary, air that brings life.
My prayer is that Advent brings with it the Hope that blows in the winds of God's mighty power and that each of us would turn to that wind and be filled.
Rick in Va (38... with a receding hair line that all retreating rabbits would envy!)
Hw in HI,
Loved your sermon over on the Review site... especially the "Yo Mama" reference...I laughed out loud!
Excellent and thought-provoking sermon...
I can't send you e-mail for some reason... I get this error message:
Users mailbox is currently disabled User unknown
This has been happening for about a week... You might want to have your service take a look at this...
Rick in Va
Don asked, "Is it possible to repent and not bear such fruit?" I have to say no. I don't see how a person can repent and not bear fruit. While I agree with MK in NC that "repentance is a 'turning away' from an old way of life (sin)," I also believe there is another aspect of repentance. The desire to turn away from the old life (sin). Without that desire, it is no longer repentance. It is just an apology or confession even. But with not desire to change, it is not repentance and change won't come about unless one is willing to change or be changed.
I think this is crucial. Too often people think they have to change before they can come before God or come for communion or even to accept Christ as their Savior. They don't realize that God says, "Come to me and we will change you." Not, "Change first and then you can come to me." That's the wonderful news Christ came to share with us.
And the need to desire to change is the message I hear in this Sunday passage. That's what I hear John criticizing the Pharisees and Sadducees for. Not desiring to change. After all they were there to be baptized, weren't they? They were there to repent, weren't they? Yet, John saw straight through to their hearts. They were just saying the confession without truly wanting to change. Why? Maybe because it was the in thing to do. Maybe they really wanted to avoid the fire wihtout having to change. Maybe they thought as long as they confess their sins, they won't be sent to the fire.
That's a problem we have in the Christian churches, regardless of the denomination. People figure if they come to church and confess their sins, they can go right back out and continue what they are doing in the first place. No desire to change, but they did want to be cleaned.
I also think it is important to talk about the "desire" to change because somethings are hard to change on our own. We need the grace of God to help us change or in some cases, to change us because we are powerless to do it on our own. That's one of the steps in the AA. Admitting that we need the help of a Higher Power. I think that is good news. WE are not alone in our struggle. God is there, ever ready to guide us and empower us.
Perhaps I'm digressing at this point, but I like the title given to this passage by the "Preaching the Revised Common Lectionary": "God's Straight Path: Comfort of the Afflicted and Affliction of the Comfortable." That's what JB was doing alright.
Brandon in CA
Re: changing your name - Does anyone remmber a song by Roberta Flack (I think) that goes "I told Jesus it'd be allright if you change my name . . " - Jesus goes on to tell her that her sister won't know her, and her brother won't know her, etc., if he changes her name . . I don't guess Roberta Flack tapes fit in well with praise songs (confession: praise choruses give me the creeps - am I alone here?) but it's something to hear in the back of your mind . . Okay, I thought everyone (with some exceptions) was young young young - what made us break out in birthday confessions? kbc, a ripe ol' 57 in sc
It strikes me that repentance is always coupled with the promise: "Repent!" Why? "The kingdom of God is near!" Our repentance is not generated so much by failure and sin, as by the promise of something better. It is the hope we have that causes us to turn. That is the problem with "fire and brimstone" - it only promises to keep us from hell - maybe. But John is full of promise for those who have had no hope - his judgement is reserved for the "righteous." If is not until I can grasp something greater that I am willing to let go of what I have (like the old story of the guy hanging from a branch on the cliff. He hears a voice from above, "Let go!" Excitedly, he asks, "Who is up there?" "This is God - don't worry, let go - I'll catch you!" The guy surveys his situation - looks down, where the jagged rocks loom beneath him 200 feet below, and then looks up and says, "Anyone else up there?"
It is the draw of the kingdom that enables us to leave where we are, as Israel was able to leave the fleshpots of Egypt only when they were assured of the promise of a new land, "flowing with milk and honey." And they kept wanting still to turn back! So it is with me - I am drawn forward because of the Spirit within who keeps holding before me an image of what I may be - the Christ who is within - yet still I hold back. Thus Luther: "I believe that I cannot of my own strength come to Christ or even believe in Him, but it is the work of the Holy Spirit . . . ."
Gary in New Bern garoth@coastalnet.com
The Roberta Flack song is a "Spiritual," a sacred song from the African American slave period
to:kbc....have to admit I'm with ya on the praise songs- maybe it's our age, but it's just too much repetition for me...I'm lost after the second repeat....I need some words with meat
to:kbc....have to admit I'm with ya on the praise songs- maybe it's our age, but it's just too much repetition for me...I'm lost after the second repeat....I need some words with meat
to kbc and others on praise songs-
I am sure that you know of praise songs with meat in the repeat. It isn't the repetition that is the problem, but sometimes the content, the way they are used. Our experience has shown that they can be effectively used... just as Taizé songs and chants.
Sometimes it's the image of "those other folk".... who ever they may be?..... using praise songs which confuses us. Music doesn't belong to anyone.... it's there for all of us. I know that yuo can be creative in trying different ways in using them.
Now your assignment... if you choose to accept it... is to get some Integrity... or whoever tapes..... First you have to hear them, then learn them, then use them..... that's the way you'll "own them"...... report back here in one month with the results... with Christmas coming time may be extended.
Remember use a praise song with some meat get them to learn the repeat get them on their feet even have them use one as the greet
olde Jack and Chuck Wesley would consider this a treat an idea so sweet and quite a feat for Methodists, and others to be getting off their seat
donaldhoff@aol.com
Repent, Why?
We must be emptied of self in order to be filled with God. We must free ourself from our own violence, greed, and selfishness in order to enter the Kingdom. It is not concrete sins that I need to repent of, but the world which clings to me too closely, I am a child of the world and I must let go of those things which corrupt the imago Dei within myself.
tom in ga
Okay, Don, I'll try . . but I must admit I appreciated hearing from a few others who break out in the same rash . . I'm trying to identify why I love the Taizé songs and not "praise choruses" - but I digress - sorry, this has nothing to do with fruit of repentance . . unless someone assumes I will repent of my narrowness? Pray! - I just can't access the discussion site so I sometimes discuss here . . thanks for your forbearance. kbc in sc
Only 20 more hours for a sermon to be in our reach only 20 more hours to find smething to preach.
Inspiration comes in many ways... I understand that some folk get in-spired under a shower head other find it getting out of bed.. some looking at the bible then stained glass window... or Morning Prayer, Compline or Vespers since we are not all folk called Methodists
I found mine today during my morning 3 mile run... with these two texts... peacebale Kingdom, and change of heart.. Not every kingdom is peaceable... depends on the King.. THE KING MAKES the difference! God's Kingdom is ... a possible Kingdom...(.believe that it can be, and it can be.... believe that it can't be, and it won't) it is a practical Kingdom-(it works with animals dogs/cats, etc, it can work with humans)...... it is a positive Kingdom... it can begin when our hearts are changed to plus from negative"change my heart oh God). it is a prayerful Kingdom.... (it begins with Make me a Channel of Your Peace.. assume that you are familiar with that song?......now there is a praise song with meat!)-
have not filled in all the details.... maybe need to go out for another run.
Don Hoff
Don - re praise songs for tomorrow- "Spirit of the Living God" by Daniel Iverson (In Maranatha Praise Chorus Books. It's brief & to the point- "Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me. Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me. Break me, melt me,mold me, fill me. Spirit of the living God, fall fresh on me." As we repent, turning to God, we can trust that God will change us. As God changes us, pruning us and reshaping us, we will then bear those fruits that are worthy of repentance. Re praise songs in general-- just as in any other musical genre, there are praise songs that are meaty and others that are vacuous, or focused on ourselves instead of God. A good song is a good song, regardless of whether it's a praise song, taize, traditional hymn, country, rock, or whatever. There are gems, lemons, and mediocre offerings in all types of music. The church I pastor has two services - contemporary & traditional. Some folks carry on endlessly that contemporary music isn't worship or that traditional is irrelevant. After one particularly heated discussion, I reminded them that we don't worship the music, we worship God. Personally, I like a variety of styles of music in worship. God's children come in all varieties, and so can our music. Something to celebrate, not fight about. Someday in that peaceable kingdom, we will all be singing praise to God together, in all manner of languages, styles, & rythms. Peace, Janet in NJ
Last night I took my youth group to see "A Christmas Carol" performed by a local theater group. The piano player from our church was in it. It was a wonderful performance and it got me thinking about how the story of Ebenezer Scrooge and the text for today have some things in common. Scrooge doesn't want to change. He likes being mean and stingy and selfish. He is not open to the Spirit of Christmas--love, joy and peace. But when the ghosts arrive and through them he sees the painful moments of his past, he hears what people think of him in the present, and he sees what greater unhappiness the future may bring, he is changed. The ghosts of Christmas past, present and future do a bit of winnowing that Christmas Eve. They toss Scrooge's life into the wind and let fall what will fall and what will blow away be swept away by the windss of change. Changing is a painful process. As scrooge heard what people were saying about him and saw what the future held for him, he got burned. But out of the ashes arose a new person. A man free of the chaff of selfishness and greed. A man ready and willing to embrace the Christmas spirit, ready to make peace, to show love and to radiate joy. A man ready to embrace the Christ in his neighbors and in himself as well. Kel
Frederick Buechner in his book titled "Wishful Thinking" p.79 defines repentance this way. "To repent is to come to your senses. It is not so much something you do as something that happens. True repentance spends less time looking at the past and saying, 'I'm sorry,' than to the future and saying 'Wow!.'" It seems to me that John the Baptist is looking at the future, expecting the "more powerful one," and saying "WOW."
Tom in TX
HW in HI: Great sermon; It'll preach! One clarification, though: Locusts were ritually clean and edible by the Jews. See Lev. 11:22 . They couldn't eat pork, but they could have all the locusts and grasshoppers that they could get their hands on. YUM. Joe in OH
Joe in OH-
Thanks for the compliment. Seeing as I'm calling us to repent, it may well be the only one I get! On the locusts -- they were "clean" -- but my understanding was they weren't part of the usual diet. Am I wrong? (Please answer fast so I can decide whether or not i need to make changes...)
HW in HI
This probably won't be read because we are on the last stretch toward Sunday morning. But I had an epiphany this afternoon as I tried to write my sermon. Seemed that my son was bugging me while I tried to concentrate. Finally in desperation, I told him in an annoyed voice that I wanted to be left alone! Part of the problem is that I may take him to a birthday party since my wife is busy elsewhere.
However, I soon repented to God because I realized that it is not my son's fault. It is my own. If I had put more time into my sermon instead of the various administrative details and personal projects (for the church), I might have gotten more of it done before Saturday. Writing a sermon is hard work and I tend to put it off till the last moment.
Anyhow, the epiphany is this. Maybe we can repent and not bear fruit. Because I truly want to change my habit of procrastination and have the sermon done by Saturday so that when my son wants to speak or play with me, I will be available. Yet, in spite of all my desire to change and confessing the sin of procrastination to God, I still do it. Is it because I haven't truly repented or because I haven't allowed the power of the Holy Spirit to change me or what?
Seems when I get my theology straight, something comes along and shakes it up.
Brandon in CA
HW in HI: I'm certainly no expert, but let me quote from my New Interpreter's Bible: "The description of John's clothing and food serves to separate him from elegant society and to identify him with the wilderness that was to be the scene of eschatological renewal." It goes on: "'Locusts' are not carob pods (contra the popular tradition that has designated the species of tree that produces them as the 'John the Baptist tree'), but actual locusts, described as ritually clean food in Lev. 11:22 and eaten by the poorer people of the desert from ancient times until today."
Of course this is just one commentary, so I'll leave the judgment up to you. Take care, Joe in OH
Re: "praise songs" . . . From someone who USUALLY sits in the pews.. . . (I'll be 40 next month that may help you decide if your feelings about "praise songs" have anything to do with the age you grew up in. . .) When my pastor (a previous pastor not my present one) first introduced praise songs, I was a bit confused by them. They repeated themselves over and over and over. what's the point? But I quickly learned that not having to read the words as I sang, letting the words be repetitious, allowed my to let my heart lift and REALLY *MEAN* the words in ways that I was not able to do if I had to be THINKING about them. (I realize that may not make a lot of sense to you unless you have experienced it. Perhaps the best way to explain it is to say that with one type of song I sang with my "head", my intellect. With the other I could sing with my heart. If the "traditonal" songs are how you--and your congregation--are best able to sing "with you heart" that is what you should be singing. If there are some who do it best with "praise music" then try to make room for that style too. And, yes there are praise songs that are "meaty" and those that aren't. And there are traditional songs that are "meaty" and those that aren't. JoyinX@aol.com
Dear Brandon,
I love what you said about repentence and the "desire to repent" which is the key. The desire is what separates the sheep from the goats, I think. I also believe that repentence in THAT respect opens up that channel to God. I can't open myself to my husband in an argument until I confess my own sins and desire to let him into my heart again. The same with God. I can confess what I've done wrong (to myself) and still have a hardened heart, to anybody. It just brought my sermon together, just what I needed. Thanks a lot.
You and your son. Did you truly repent? Yeah. Don't be so hard on yourself. I guess my Methodism is coming out: Practice makes perfect.
My toddler would agree.
God bless you and your family, MK in NC
Brandon in Ca,
I know it's late but after reading your words it occurred to me... Desire is the fruit worthy of repentance... Desire to turn to God and away from sin... Desire to please God... Wouldn't that be the consequence of true conversion, born from confession, repentance and acceptance of Christ?
Rick in Va
Hey, here it is as late as can be the night before . . . if you're still reading, you may be in need yet of an idea!
I like the image of the root. Wait, this is my first submission, and I want to see if it works...
Hmmm. Am I doing something wrong here? Wanna share this idea...
I've submitted comments, but they don't appear. Can someone out in cyberspace help a new c-space cadet?
c-space cadet - you're coming thru to Canada loud and clear - try the reload command, my friend-
pray for us - we're a little church that was broken into two weeks ago - and lost a lot - so I can only check in when I can borrow a computer -
Dear Brandon,
I want to share with you what I and my good friend from seminary laerned from his spouse. Maybe this will help. He was of the late-Saturday-night school of sermon writing. It drove her nuts. Finally she told him he was denying the family any kind of reasonable time together since a) she worked all week, b)he had angst all day Saturday, c) he wrote Saturday night and d)he was exhausted Sunday afternoon. Now, I am not saying that you are selfish, I don't know your life, and the last thing I want to do is put that on you. But my friend's wife said that the style he chose put him front and center all weekend, and that Sunday morning was quite enough, thank you very much. He changed. he began to work on 2 scriptures each week. The current and next. And he just about always has this week's sermon written by Wednesday. I don't know if this is useful or not, but if yes, it is yours.
HW in HI
Repentance defined by the Westminster Confession of Faith: is a grace in which the sinner is able to see his sins as God sees them, as filthy and hateful, he grieves because of his sins and hates his sin and turns from them to God.The sinner understands that God is merciful to those who repent. Ezek. 18:30-31; 36:31, Is.30:22, Ps. 51:24, Jer. 31:18-24, 2Cor. 7:11. Bud in SC