Date: 10 Aug 2002
Time: 06:50:06
It is sometimes very disappointing to us who want to control the future rather leaving the future to the LOrd of History. It is much more exciting to dismeber 16:28 from the TRansfiguration and think that Jesus must have misunderstood the signs of te times. After all we cannot ourselves experience the TRansfiguration as those disciples did. Prhaps we have missed the suffering that lay ahead for Jesus and the radiance that goes with suffering and sacrifice. That is why the heretical formulation hat the so called rapture will take us away from this worl before the tribulation. Obviously the rapture so called comes at the end of history with the advent of judgement and the coming of Jesus to judge the world. If we wish to have the radiance without tyhe suffering there are plenty of speakers who will separate Charist from the historical situation and give us Bonhoeffer said cheap grace. The problem we have now is to see Christ transfigured in the reflections of our own suffering before we taste daeth. Stowell Kessler
Date: 10 Aug 2002
Time: 06:58:17
It is sometimes very disappointing to us who want to control the future rather leaving the future to the Lord of History. It is much more exciting to dismember 16:28 from the Transfiguration and think that Jesus must have misunderstood the signs of the times. After all we cannot ourselves experience the Transfiguration as those disciples did. Perhaps we have missed the suffering that lay ahead for Jesus and the radiance that goes with suffering and sacrifice. That is why the heretical formulation of the so called rapture that will take us away from this world before the tribulation is so seductive. Obviously the rapture, so called, comes at the end of history with the advent of judgement and the coming of Jesus to judge the world. If we wish to have the radiance without the suffering there are plenty of speakers who will separate Christ from the historical situation and give us, as Bonhoeffer said, "cheap grace." The problem we have now is to see Christ transfigured in the reflections of our own suffering before we taste death. That is what it means to take up the cross and follow him. Stowell Kessler
Date: 20 Aug 2002
Time: 14:08:11
It is rather ironic that the same Peter who said you are the messiah is now called Satan because he can not accept that this messiah would have to suffer. the mystery of suffering is so hard to face when it is the face of a loved one. As we minister to those who are dying it is a grace to see the face of Jesus in those suffering. A big part of our ministry is to help the people see that suffering as making a difference in their own lives and its transforming power. Suffering and its power to change us.....most likely homily at this point. Fr in Iowa
Date: 21 Aug 2002
Time: 08:15:32
This week I want to deal with 9/11 I plan on talking about the zealots and their subversive activities. About how they took children and thaught them to throw rocks and to hate romans than as they got older they were taught to use knives. Dosen't sound too different from today dose it. The big question is when will we stop teaching our children to hate. During WW2, as a child all I heard was the only good Jap is a dead Jap or the only good German is a dead German. The old westerns often taught that the only good indian is a dead indian. Wherer dose it all stop. It has to begin within each of us as we refuse to allow hatred to enter our thoughts.
Love to all. Harold in Alabama
Date: 21 Aug 2002
Time: 08:15:39
This week I want to deal with 9/11 I plan on talking about the zealots and their subversive activities. About how they took children and thaught them to throw rocks and to hate romans than as they got older they were taught to use knives. Dosen't sound too different from today dose it. The big question is when will we stop teaching our children to hate. During WW2, as a child all I heard was the only good Jap is a dead Jap or the only good German is a dead German. The old westerns often taught that the only good indian is a dead indian. Wherer dose it all stop. It has to begin within each of us as we refuse to allow hatred to enter our thoughts.
Love to all. Harold in Alabama
Date: 22 Aug 2002
Time: 12:18:56
I'd like to tie in the holiday of Labor Day with the texts for this Sunday. Beyond our vocations of work, we also have a vocation as Christians to follow Jesus--even when it means suffering. The lesson from Romans has some pretty straight forward advice for what it means to live out one's Christian vocation: "Let love be genuine." We have a "labor of love," as it were, which is totally alien to this world we live in. GB in MI
Date: 24 Aug 2002
Time: 12:58:34
Verse 21 reminds me of a time in my first parish. I had four little churches as a student appointment. At one of the churches, I had told the story of a student asking Barth if Jesus could have forgiven Judas. The professor shook his head and said something along the lines of "You just don't get it. Judas betrayed Jesus once, while we betray Jesus over and over again. The good news isn't that Jesus could have forgiven Judas, but that Jesus can forgive you and forgive me." We had communion that morning, and half the congregation (6 persons) practically ran to the altar, because they had heard that Jesus had forgiven them. The other half sat in the back, arms crossed and refusing communion from me, because I had said they were worse sinners than Judas. The joyful ones listened all the way to the good news, while the angry ones stopped listening at the bad news.
Peter hears Jesus talk about suffering and being killed -- but apparently doesn't hear the part about being raised on the third day!
How often do we quit listening when we get to something that challenges us, and then become a stumbling block to the will of God?
OLAS
Date: 25 Aug 2002
Time: 14:10:55
I believe the good news is that Jesus forgives me a sinner and would have forgiven Judas too. And maybe He did forgive Judas, if in his last breath he prayed and asked for God to forgive him his terrible sin...Fr in Iowa
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 06:09:08
This weeks' text explains why Jesus "sternly warned them not to tell anyone that he was the Messaih."
Prior to this, his followers would have (and will still manage) to get the concept of a suffering Messaih all mixed up with a Messiah of glory.
We have a new church in town that offers classes on how to "live cash positive in God's Kingdom." and "how to turn around you business and pay less taxes". "This new organizations advertises the God wants his people to eat good food, wear nice clothing, and drive fine cars"
The only passage that comes to mind when I see the ads in the paper is: "Jesus wept."
Does Christanity have an obligation to publucally distance itself from such twisting of the Gospel?
Pr.del in IA
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 11:01:23
Verse 16:24 my emphasis I think... 1. Deny yourself-sacrifice 2. Take us cross -heavy burden,work 3. And follow Jesus. Like the idea of Labor day , spelled Labour Day. ( Oh MY two 3 point sermons in a row, classic rextbook preacher turning into) LOL may tie in Exodus passage- moses would have to deny his life good living to go be deliverer...a burden...but he was obedient...What can this teach us sacrifice leads to obedience? Godly Sacrifice...Work for the night is coming, should be the hymn sung...Pastor Mary in OHIO
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 11:49:34
Pr.del in IA
Ouch! I believe most Christians realize the fallacy of those advertisements, while we live them! I hope those who are enticed into that fallacy will be inspired either to get out, or to lead that "church" into repentence, selling all that it has and giving to the poor.
Michelle
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 12:24:52
I'm thinking of focusing mainly on verses 24-26 and entitling my sermon "Saving Your Own Life." I'm not sure how it will be fleshed out, yet, but of course the way to save your own life is to give it away as Jesus did. Still very early in the week. I check in from time to time, although I don't contribute often. Appreciate everyone's inspirations. Mel in NE
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 12:40:23
My first inclination is to talk about setting our minds on human, rather than divine things.
Setting our minds on human things allows for evil to creep into our lives. In the theater they call it "pulling focus," a way to upstage someone.
After last week's too-complex sermon from Romans, I'm going to KISS (keep it simple, Sally) this week.
Sally in GA
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 13:03:33
My sermon title is "Get Outa Here" and I want to focus on evil. The questions then become: Who or what is evil/Satan and what does the bible say about it? Any thoughts? mcp
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 16:17:33
some of you who are better at Greek than I am may need to help me here, but I have always been fascinated that Jesus keeps Peter in close community. He does not tell Peter "go away and don't come back." No, Jesus, tells Peter to take his proper place in the community, as a follower of Jesus, wherever that leads. Peter has shown that he is quick to believe, but that he can lose focus almost as quickly (sound like anybody you know?) Yet, Jesus never givesup on Peter, whether he is sinking below the waves or worrying about what's going to happen next.
Early thoughts
revgilmer in texarkan
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 18:41:15
Has anyone noticed the ongoing pun with Peter's name--Rock? Last week he was the rock on which Christ's church is built. The week before he was the rock trying to walk on water, but of course, sinking. This week he is a stumbling block for Jesus--bringing temptation that threatens to trip him. Pondering Pastor in IL
Date: 26 Aug 2002
Time: 18:43:54
Peter is also a kind of "block-head" who just doesn't get what Jesus is trying to tell him. It's reassuring that Peter is so very human...there is hope for all of us to be leaders, as well. Pondering Pastor in IL
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 05:16:02
This passage, of course, follows on from last week, where the disciples have finally voiced their belief in Jesus as the Messiah.
As soon as they do this, Jesus starts to reveal what he is to suffer.
What an irony! They have finally worked out that Jesus is the saviour of the world and now he is telling them about his demise. No wonder Peter got a little upset.
But that is the point. Each step of the spiritual journey prepares you for the harder ones which will follow. Each part of our spiritual growth is a progressive movement into deeper and harder truths. What a devastation for the disciples to discover that the Saviour, the deliverer is to be killed.
Yet that is the paradox of all spirituality. That which is, isn't. That which was, wasn't.
Jesus is simply leading the disciples into a deeper awareness of their own prospect, if they dare to seek to understand the world from God's perspective.
How devastating it is from a priest's perspective, to see people again and again back away from the truth, because they began to see the cost of it. Preferring to live in the lie, simply because it was more comfortable.
They may gain the whole world, by such deceit of themselves, but to me, they have forfeited their life. Their true potential.
I love our Lord, but his teachings are certainly tough on the soul!
Regards to all for a great week.
KGB in Aussie.
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 07:30:32
I am drawn to the prominence of sacrifice in the passage.
The nations involved in the war on terrorism expect sacrifice of their patriots. We see this war as a real conflict of good and evil.
What about the conflict that Peter is in? At one moment he his confessing what God has revealed to him; the next moment he is personified as Satan. Is this not the constant conflict of every confessor of Christ?
We who are Christians are in the ULTIMATE WAR between good and evil, or God and evil I should say. Sacrifice in the battlefields of everyday life, (the willingness to set aside our own selfish desires and wills for the sake of obedience to the teachings of our master), needs to be considered just a normal part of allegiance to the cause.
So often you will hear someone who has performed some act of heroism say this..... "I was just doing what anybody would have done." Wouldn't it be nice if Christians took that attitude toward self-sacrifice?
GC in IL
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 08:49:12
The New Interpreter's Bible follows these passages with reflections on "Christology" in-the-making within Matthew and the emerging community of believers. Bonhoeffer's "The Cost of Discipleship" as well as "Christ the Center" may have relevance to stumbling, bumbling, Pete the Rock, who represents us, working out his Christlology. Who is this Joshua the Messiah any way? Do we prefer the Greek form Jesus the Christ, rather than the Hebrew form Joshua the Messiah, for some reason...in our working out our Christology? Is it important for us to become a Jew in some sense in order to understand who Joshua/Jesus is? Do the Greek salvation myths and/or worldviews attrack us more than the covenant history of Judaism? in what sense is the New Testament stories an "anamnesis", a reliving, a recapitulation, of Old Testament/Torah history? Do we do the worship/work of Incarnation and/or sacramental spirituality today in our modes of worship and in our daily life within the common place? Do we understand the new Testament from the framework and/or worldview of the first century or do we unconsciously project our modern meaning-making images, language, and/or worldview upon this sacred literature of the past without regard for what it meant from those people of faith whose "kerygma" is given to other people of faith, including us today? What Chritological frame lies within the depths of our souls, and is functional, and operative in our practice of hermeneutics as we seek to hear, see, taste, feel, touch, interpret, digest, the Word/words in eating the sacred scroll? Does this Christological costly grace gospel tell us about costly discipleship? Does it witness the Wounded God who actively is alive still working i n the world with and for and in the midst of wounded world...with us or without us...with the Church or without the church...where God's mission is still calling the people, the Church, the world to awaken! How does our Christology connect to the mission/Kingdom of God, to the ministry of Jesus? Is our Christology too liturgical rooted, involving spiritual formation (personal holiness) at the exclusion of mission (and/or social holiness)? For me Bonhoeffer's references above may address some of these question. More significant than what others think, experience, and believe, however, is my faith "answers" to these questions in the Christological affirmations I, as well as Peter the Rock, live out! Can our liturgical frame be dynamically tied to our mission/social justice/Kingdom-come frame? (just reflecting PaideiaSCo in north GA mts.)
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 10:57:50
Could it be that our "Holy Ground" and "Burning Bush" experience can occur when we see our vocation be it Dr. Lawyer, Clerk, Miner, Truckdriver, Waitress, Student or Retired as the setting for our "Call." It becomes holy ground as we pray for our experiences there and the people we encounter there, it becomes a buring bush as we are transformed by our "living our faith" - "carrying our cross of love" by caring for those around us and into the situations we encounter.
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 11:02:52
Oops did I do it again? New computer still learning how to operate. To conclude ---- Moses' experience points out that we are all called and that we are on Holy Ground when ever we are aware of God's presence where we are. The letter from Paut to the Romans spells out how to live out our call "where we are" and the Gospel reminds us that it will not always be easy to live the way of Christ. jmj in Beautiful Montana
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 11:03:29
Oops did I do it again? New computer still learning how to operate. To conclude ---- Moses' experience points out that we are all called and that we are on Holy Ground when ever we are aware of God's presence where we are. The letter from Paut to the Romans spells out how to live out our call "where we are" and the Gospel reminds us that it will not always be easy to live the way of Christ. jmj in Beautiful Montana
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 13:19:06
Peter was a Zealot.
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 13:58:36
PaideiaSCo in north GA mts,
You touch a chord with me, in regard to Peter's setting his mind on human things and not divine things.
It is so difficult to exactly decipher when and where I am thinking in human terms and not according to the will of God.
Often determining whether we are listening to our own thinking or the will of God, is the most difficult aspect of spirituality. Many people have believed they have received a message from God, only to have it revealed that they were deluding themselves.
Peter's response to Jesus, probably seemed quite reasonable and logical to anyone standing around. It probably would have been Jesus's outburst that seemed illogical.
Of course, we have the benefit of hindsight in these matters and we sometimes forget, that Peter and Jesus were on very human terms of relating.
I am still trying to determine what influences I am responding to in my own understanding of Jesus and I thank you for the contribution, which reminds me that others have also struggled with that through the ages.
Regards,
KGB
Date: 27 Aug 2002
Time: 15:21:33
Holy Ground....Hmmm. Then how do we view "suffering?" Could it be that the suffering we must endure as Christians might be compared to the creating of a beautiful garden? We have to keep the weeds at bay. That is painstaking work. If not, the weeds overtake and choke out and we must plant the seeds again. I don't really know where I am going with this on this Tuesday. Suffering comes with uprooting the weeds of our spirit. So for Peter to stand in the way of Jesus being authentic to his calling--some of you used vocation--was to let the bind weed take over. Just keep the conversation going. Something is stirring. Blessings! lp in CO
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 05:11:53
revgilmer in texarkan
You posed an intriguing thought, so I looked it up. Yes, the Greek word for behind may be a contraction of the words which mean "to follow" but it is uncertain. The word does function the same way in English, as in "Are you behind me on this? Will you back me up?" Wonderful!
Also, I checked on Jesus' use of the word, "satan." In our English translations, it is capitalized, as if a name. However, in the Greek, it is not. I had thought of Jesus using the term like, "Get behind me, you tempter you," but the meaning of "satan" is more specifically "adversary" or "accuser." It is used at times for enticement, but I'll need to do some more work on this.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Michelle
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 06:49:26
I've been thinking along the same lines as KGB's post of the 28th. My simplified version of those probing thoughts brings me to a question ( and a sermon focus): What troublesome and offensive things is Jesus 'saying' to us now? What would move us to grab Jesus by the arm and say, "We'll have no more that bunk around here, thank you!"? I'd be grateful for a few examples of us playing Peter's role in this ongoing drama. Joe in Zion
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 07:33:22
Joe in Zion asked:
"We'll have no more that bunk around here, thank you!"? I'd be grateful for a few examples of us playing Peter's role in this ongoing drama.
How about the dreaded "E" word - Evangelism --"What, Jesus? You want me to talk to people about religion?"
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 07:39:48
Michelle;
Thanks for your help. You realy helped clarify my somewhat jumbled thoughts on this.
Found a teriffic quote from William Barclay in The Daily Study Bible about Peter trying to tempt Jesus to deny his fate, how Peter is trying to protect the boss out of misguided love for Jesus.
"The hardest temptation of all is the one that comes from protecting love.There are times when fond love seeks to deflect us from the perils of the path of God; but real love is not the love which holds the knight at home, but the love which sends him out to obey the commandments of the chivalry which is given, not to make life easy, but to make life great."
So here's a hard question for all us desperate preachers- do we preach to make life easy comfortable) or to make life great(challenging)? What would Jesus call us to do?
As Mr. Twain once said, "it's not the parts of the Bible I don't understand that give me problems; It's the parts I do understand that give me problems."
revgilmer in Texarkana
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 09:14:26
I'm just full of puns today
jmj: Oops! You did it again! :o)
and I haven't seen this joke yet: "Peter had ROCKS in his head!" :o)
Thank you all for the deep reflections. While I want to keep it simple, I don't want to be shallow, either.
I'm thinking of the phrase "Shut up!" as what the kids say as an exclamation today. It also reflects what Peter said to Jesus, and what Jesus said to Peter. and the shock of the true nature of our salvation.
Sally in gA
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 09:19:49
How's this for a title: "Skimming the Surface" - Peter, rock - what we skim, and how we sort of "jump" in the gray area of our understanding of good/evil, human/divine. Our knowledge, like Peter's, is just skimming the surface.
Any thoughts?
Sally, again.
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 10:51:04
This year I have been sensing a different tone of voice in Jesus' response to Peter. Normally I have read it as a commanding and authoritative rebuke. This time Jesus' sentences sound like he is saying, "You ARE a Stumbling Block to ME." i.e. Was Jesus authentically struggling with how much he wanted Peter's rebuke/consolation to be true?
This exchange between Jesus and Peter contains one of those sentences of Peter's that makes real sense to me. 'God forbid that you should suffer, you whom I love so much.' Aslanclan
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 10:56:47
Joe in Zion asked "What would move us to grab Jesus by the arm and say, "We'll have no more that bunk around here, thank you!"?
Yes, Eric, evangelism would be one. But something keeps leading me to look at even less "threatening" examples. How about some of our entertainment choices? How about the "little white lies" we use every day? Some time ago, George Barna released the results of one of his surveys that revealed many Christians have similar views on certain issues (such as cheating, abortion, homosexuality, sex before marriage, etc.) as non-Christians. Are we slowly becoming indoctrinated into the ways of the world? Are we, in a sense, becoming like Peter, and saying, "Not your way, Lord, but our way?" When the scriptures talk about bearing a cross, they're talking about the suffering (of any size or shape) we encounter when we take a stand for Christ, not only from a salvation standpoint ("Jesus is the only way...") but from a sanctification standpoint. A seminary friend of mine once said that if you're NOT experiencing any such sort of suffering or difficulty, if your NOT experiencing persecution, great or small, then perhaps there's something wrong with how you live out your faith.
Couple of other thoughts on such a direction: 1) This is one that I believe is more effective and sincere if the preacher uses the plural pronoun ("We do this...we do that...) instead of the singular ("you do this...etc.). Let's face it, we're human, we do our share of compromising Christ, too. 2) Here is where Satan would plant seeds of doubt in our hearts, telling us we shouldn't get too specific, nor too pointed. To a certain extent that's true, because we could spend our whole time listing ways we avoid the cross. At the same time, speaking too generally doesn't get the point across.
We need to pray and let the Holy Spirit give us the right words in the right amount. But perhaps it's time for us Christian leaders to bring the standard back up to where God put it long ago, and hold our parishioners AND ourselves to that standard, instead of bringing it down to us.
DD in CA
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 13:52:19
OLAS, I am what you once were, My first charge, 4 point or four churches, rural small, and seminary student...SLP I guess I would qualify as a second vocation pastor... hmm like Moses LOL... I was a teacher and social worker in a past life LOL. (But still under 40) you know the small PTLP or SLP , going to school, oh they say, you are a student first...yes you are, but you are a pastor to these people, you preach, teach, marry, bury... (so, what's the difference between an ordained elder and Student Local Pastor) SALary and a BIG Church!!! the obedient duty to our people is the same-we can do the same ministering! I looked at this analogy Licensed practical nurse is to Registered Nurse as Licensed Local pastor is to Ordained Elder... hmmm like that all SLP's here??? SLP pastor Mary in OH
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 16:14:02
Hm-mm, a stumbling block pretty much has to be in front to do much damage....How many times do we become a stumbling block to Jesus, heading out to do it our way when we have promised to follow? There is a lot to be said for taking time out to listen, and maybe get back on the right track. It may cause a little suffering, tho' 'cause it looks so much like doing nothing. That's for preachers. It seems that some of the problems in the life of the body of Christ in all its parts could be that there are so few Peters. Not many even want to walk on water, or would dare open their mouths in Jesus' presence. Have we scared them or don't they care? Just some rambling, but I like the idea of the 2 "get behind me"s. Thanks to you revgilmer and Michelle. Max in NC
Date: 28 Aug 2002
Time: 23:15:59
To SLP Mary in OH
Your question--what's the difference between an ordained pastor and a SLP? A retired preacher told me once, "The difference is--as an ordained, when they tell you to sit down and shut up, you don't have to." :)
AUGGIE in TN
Date: 29 Aug 2002
Time: 03:45:30
The divine message of hope for those suffering by evil oppression as God children in Egypt is the same message for humans suffering in the bondage of being sinners. Some one is coming whom will make a change. The one coming is one whom has been here before. Like Peter we would like to hear of the change in our lives being an improvement to our comfort zone. Make the Romans give us our land back, we need more money, we need more ... Instead the change is not a human thing, it is a divine thing. The divine desire of God was for Jesus to give his life, to rise on the third day and be the One to come again and free us from the burden of serving the errors of our human life. Jesus had his test, we have ours. To make a loving decision to be learners of Christ Jesus and follow his path. A path that will allow some of us here today to see Jesus entering his role as the Savior bringing us and others into the kingdom of God. I recently heard a song titled "Some One is Coming" performed by Russ Taft, that for me has connected this week's Good News with the account of Moses and the burning bush. Greetings Randy in TN
Date: 29 Aug 2002
Time: 08:24:49
I am new to this site and this is my first time responding. I am a seminarian doing internship this year and have appreciated the conversations thoughts and ideas that you all have shared. Connecting this weeks text with last weeks I compare it with a good thunder and lightening storm, the battle between the lightening flashs and the darkness. The flashes of lightening are like Peters confession those times when we see clearly the path we are to follow. The darkness that falls between the flashes as our human nature taking regaining control again that stops us from following Jesus. The battle is the constant struggle between taking up the cross and following and our human nature the that wants us to follow are own path. After all the darkness hides alot of things.The Good News for me is that Peter did not stop Jesus from following his Father's will and through his suffering, death and resurrection we are reconciled. That where I think I headed this week. Some rambling thoughts from a new-comer. Vicar J.
Date: 29 Aug 2002
Time: 08:43:32
Joe in Zion asked "What would move us to grab Jesus by the arm and say, "We'll have no more that bunk around here, thank you!"?
What about forgiveness and restoration. I made the mistake a few weeks ago of asking our Wedensday night Bible study group what they would do if they held the responsibility of the Roman Catholic Bishops (We are baptist, by the way) in dealing with the child molestation cases.
I didn't hear much about the possibility of serving in any capacity.
While I would never advocate placing a child in a dangerous situation, I felt very uncomfortable with their responses.
There was no allowance for the possibility for Christ to change hearts and restore lives. The way I see it. If He can't do that, I quit because I surely can't.
Now before anyone gives in to the desire to correct my understanding of forgiveness and the gravity of pedophilia, please consider that I am just making the point that we are often offended at the prospect of Jesus forgiving such vile behavior.
GC in IL
Date: 29 Aug 2002
Time: 15:51:00
On Tuesday of this week we "put to bed" our monthly parish newsletter. In it the treasurer included a report that August has been a particularly bad month income-wise (as is typical, I suppose) because of low attendance during this last-month-of-summer-vacations and, thus, low Sunday offerings.
On Wednesday we received two checks in the office totalling nearly $15,000! One was a tithe of the insurance settlement received by the widow of a very active member who died in a motorcycle accident last month. One was a check sent by a lady who went into the hospital today for major surgery which will keep her away from church for (probably) several weeks of recuperation.
These two checks more than solve our shortfall for August and then some.
As I have pondered these receipts it has seemed to me that they are evidence that God answers prayer, but that frequently the answer comes in ways we could not have anticipated. I would never suggest that God is responsible for the death and illness of these two parishioners, but through that death and that illness God has sustained the families of the parishioners and the parish, spiritually and (now) financially.
It seems to me that somehow this connects with both this Gospel lesson and the Exodus pericope; that this is evidence of how "the Great I AM" is with us in our journey, even the hard parts of it, vis. the burning bush story, and that this is evidence of how taking up one's cross even if that entails suffering and death leads to "finding life". It also seems to me that this is something that needs to be shared with the congregation.... but how to say it in ways that will NOT make it seem that God causes death and suffering, and NOT be wounding to the suffering families....
Any ideas?
Thanks and blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 29 Aug 2002
Time: 21:02:41
Came across this defintiion of skandalon- anything along your path, i.e., a rock or stone that could cause you to fall. Also, Matthew uses this word and its forms more than any other writer in the Bible, and it most often refers to Jesus as offense or stumbling block.
is it possible that this is a play on words- I hope so, since my sermon title is From Faithful Rock to Stumbling Block-also, Matthew could be pointing out that Peter here tries to palce himself in an equal or even superior position to Jesus
revgilmer in texarkana
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 05:52:01
Date: 08-30-02 Time: 8:48am
This is a wonderful site for a new pastor fresh out of seminary who has to prepare s sermon weekly. Here's another view: 16:26 "What a Probing Question" - Use the whole labor day theme. How we spemd all our lives to trying to make $...
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 05:52:07
Date: 08-30-02 Time: 8:48am
This is a wonderful site for a new pastor fresh out of seminary who has to prepare s sermon weekly. Here's another view: 16:26 "What a Probing Question" - Use the whole labor day theme. How we spemd all our lives to trying to make $...
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 05:55:24
Date: 08-30-02 Time: 8:48am
This is a wonderful site for a new pastor fresh out of seminary who has to prepare s sermon weekly. Here's another view: 16:26 "What a Probing Question" - Use the whole labor day theme. How we spemd all our lives to trying to make $... The Baby Pastor
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 07:22:47
Amen to Harold's comment! All the years growing up I heard about "them" "those people" and as a young highs school kid I thought "they" are just like us. Why did I hate Blacks? Why did I look down on Jewish people? Because I had been taught too. Harold we need to change (try to change) attitudes and live the attitude of Christ....Love! Ed in Iowa
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 07:31:57
Is it just our area, or is everyone being overwhelmed with requests for emergency funding? What on earth is going on out there?
Pr.del in IA
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 07:56:31
Eric in KS got me thinking. Suffering and death is a side effect of life. We all know we will get sick, we all know we will die. As the author of life, God has placed suffering in our lives, I believe as an opportunity for growth. The most difficult times in my life, have been the ones that sparked the most growth. The touchy question - is God involved in the timing of suffering. Did God cause the motorcycle accident, or cause the problem that sent your parish member to hospital for surgery. I doubt any of us want to say yes. Yet in response to Peter, and with His own pending suffering clearly in mind, Jesus says look guys, you'll have to get through some difficult times. The measure of who you are is how you handle the times of difficulty,how you handle when it seems you get a raw deal. A widow who remembers her church with life insurance money after a tragedy and a person going to the hospital who contributes in advance, seem to be handling it well, trusting in God for the strength to deal with what life brings. You've raised a real issue. My sermon this weekend will deal not with suffering, but how we handle it, how we react to it. Do we let it steal our faith, or do we see it as faith building. Perhaps that's a way to ensure that it's a positive, not a wound, for those who are suffering. For what it's worth New Guy in London, Ont
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 10:44:08
New Guy in London, Ont writes: "As the author of life, God has placed suffering in our lives.."
I'd have to respectfully disagree with that premise. My understanding of that our exercise of freewill and misapplication of it indivdually and coporately that results in suffering and brokenness invading all of creation.
God may redeem suffering, but God does not cause suffering. If he did that would make him an agent or power that acted over and against life- the power of death itself.
God is life!
Pr.del in Ia
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 13:23:16
THANK YOU to the person who talked about the everyday ways we set up stumbling blocks. I still don't have a title I like - can I borrow the "Faithful Rocks and Stumbling Blocks?"
Eric - that's great! I rejoice with you.
Sally in GA
Date: 30 Aug 2002
Time: 15:17:05
Eric, Maybe you could focus on the discipleship of these two persons in the midst of suffering, in "Contributing to the needs of the saints," and altho' I would not say that they are precisely overcoming evil with good, they have not been overcome by their suffering, to pull in the Romans lesson. And a little simplisticly, they may be "burning bushes" for the rest of the congregation. Max in NC
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 03:23:19
It's the start of a new school term, and we have students leaving home for the first time to go to University ... and others facing new challenges
We will use the Gospel and the theme 'The cost of loving'
The bones of it might be ...
Loving is hard isn’t it ? There is a cost.
The more we love, the higher the cost (A member of the church has just buried his wife of 32 years at age 54 ... Of course I won't mention thi, but we know that the cost of loving for him will be almost unbearable)
From the Gospel What was the cost of loving for God what is the cost of loving in our lives ...
I will interview our twoi students leaving home and ask them ...
Now you’re both about to start at University ... just tell us where you’re going and what course
What are you looking forward to ? What are you nervous about ?
What’s been the hardest thing about being a Christian so far ?
Then later on in the service ... I will paraphrase the Gospel inclusing a bit from last week's reading
Peter says... Jesus, you are the Messiah (Peter thinks it's about power) Jesus says ... The Messiah must suffer (Jesus is saying - No Peter, it’s not about power. Mostly, it’s about love)
Jesus is saying ... There will be a cost for me, you have to understand that, and there will be a cost for you too
Then I will ask the congregation for ideas What do you think is the cost of loving ?
Then we will listen to a song by Coldplay Here's the chorus
Nobody said it was easy it’s such a shame for us to part No body said it was easy No one ever said it would be this hard O take me back to the start
Rev in Bev UK
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 05:34:35
It seems that Jesus is giving the disciples bad news and good news, but Peter stops listening after the "bad news" and doesn't hear about the resurrection. I'm wanting to begin the sermon with a good news / bad news joke, but can't think of any. Anyone know a good news / bad news joke? Pastor Ed in Ohio
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 07:03:25
Pr.del in Ia: God will be who God will be. You better believe I want a God who will not put me to the test, who will not place suffering in my life. But God is God. Look at Abraham - he was put to the test when God instructed him to sacrifice his son. God did provide an out but that was quite a test! Then there was Job. God let Satan have his way. Just do not destroy my servant Job. Then there are times when we bring suffering upon ourselves. The bottom line is we do suffer. And I agree with New Guy that the issue then becomes how we deal with it, how we react to it. Faith-stealing or faith-building? I can work with that. Reverend KJ
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 08:08:08
First, regarding a "Good News/Bad News" joke. I like the one about the commander of the prison camp who addresses the prisoners who have worn clothes for weeks which are dirty and torn. He states that he has good news and bad news. The good news is that you get to change clothes today. The bad news is, "Prisoner 5 change with prisoner 2, prisoner 7 with 10...." The plus is that you could refer to Peter as one who saw Jesus as "new" - the Messiah - but then immediately retreats to wearing the same old clothes of "glory", unable to see the suffering Messiah who would truly introduce the new life. My thoughts this week have centered on the threatening comments toward Iraq and the on-going action in Afghanistan. Relevant question for me is: Will we sacrifice the moral high ground for the sake of self-preservation? Do we make a first strike because we want to protect ourselves and then forfeit our values? I think Jesus wants us to see fear as an unworthy motivator for most of life - it leads us to rationalize many things and is very dangerous. Jesus wants us to gain life through the sacrificial values of love, forgiveness and faith. SJS
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 08:26:53
KJ wrote: "You better believe I want a God who will not put me to the test, who will not place suffering in my life."
I stand with Pr. del with regard to this discussion and I think the issue may be that discernment is needed to distinguish between "testing" (which is of God) and "suffering" (which results from the fallen nature of humans and creation). Yes, God tested Abraham, but he did not cause him suffering. Yes, God allowed the satan (who some would say represents the chaotic in fallen nature) to bring suffering to Job, but (as KJ notes) would not allow that suffering to extend to destruction and God sustained Job through the suffering.
I believe there is a difference between "testing" and "suffering" and we must pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance to discern the difference. Suffering comes, in terms of this Gospel lesson, when we try to save our lives, but then lose it, when we try to gain the world but lose our souls. Testing is found in the process of denying our selves for Jesus, taking up the cross, and giving up our lives.
Just a few thoughts as I start putting together all this stuff for tomorrow's sermon....
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 08:29:21
Reverend KJ
Two weeks before the murder in our Church parking lot, a nine year old girl who was visiting from out of town was killed in a drive-by shooting five blocks from our church.
Are you prepared to tell the parents that God put that suffering in their lives and that the same God wants them to repent and offers them forgiveness?
I do not think your message of God's love will go too far in our neighborhood and I beleive if that was the message of Chritianity, the church would have faded out (and rightfully so) centuries ago.
Pr.del in IA
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 12:13:22
Pastor Ed in Ohio,
Here's a good news/bad news joke that I like...I'm a Roman Catholic priest, by the way. Anyway,
The Pope was holding a very high-level meeting with several of his most important cardinals, when his secretary rushes in and whispers to him, "Holy Father, there is a very important phone call for you." The Pope, annoyed, says, "Can't you see that I'm in a very important meeting? Surely someone else can take this call!" The secretary persists, saying, "But, Holy Father, this is not just any phone call! It's from Christ himself. He's come back as he promised!" The Pope's face lights up and says, "Why didn't you say so right away? This is wonderful news! Of course I'll take the call!" The secretary responds, "Yes, Your Holiness, that is the good news. Here is the bad news: He's calling from Salt Lake City."
(Oh well...probably not appropriate for worship?)
Metz in Indiana
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 12:21:03
Pastor Ed - I don't remember the specifics, but do remember that segment on "Hee-Haw" where the two guys in the barber shop did the "Oh, that's good," ... "No, that's bad ..." routine.
I finally got a title: "Take the Plunge" - Rather than skimming the surface like a skipping stone (a chip off the old block), take the plunge and drop on in. I'm going to explore the world v divine dilemma (we have very real worldly concerns like how to pay bills and keep our kids safe from stray bullets and take care of very real sickly parents) so yes, it seems we HAVE to set our minds SOMEWHAT on worldly things. To set our minds on divine things is to use the worldly for the divine.
Let me try to explain a bit. My husband works with a man who wants his daughter to be exposed to Christianity, but hesitates to take her to Sunday school or church because (and I quote) "The church always has its hand out." Well, if the church didn't need money, there would be no "children's program" for his daughter. Last I heard, it took money to purchase Cokesbury curriculum. Is money "worldly" or "divine?"
Well, we can consider what's worldly to be divine by asking God to somehow consecrate it. We offer our checks and greenery to God every Sunday, praying for his blessing on it for his work. Same with the elements of communion and baptism. Same, also, with people.
As to WHY Peter argued with Jesus, well, I don't know if I'd be real eager to be someone's disciple (follower) if it meant I was supposed to follow suit with his suffering. Deep down, where I'd rather not admit even to myself, I want Jesus' sacrifice to be only Jesus' and not mine. And, truth be told, it would appear to us, like it did Peter, that he was following a loser - one who wasn't going to "win." In this day where we don't know who's going to win the baseball strike, and where football is gearing up, we follow winning teams, not those who say, "for the greater good, I'm going to let this team bowl us over while I don't resist a bit." Coaches with that philosophy won't be coaches very long.
Now if I can keep the competitiveness out of my voice ... Can you tell that even though I'm not a sports fan, I have a competitive side?
Thanks for letting me sound it out.
sally in ga
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 12:35:38
this forum is wonderful and it has helped me greatly to see so many different ideas and suggestions...I really appreciate the humor as sometimes with a busy week and dodging the projectiles, I can sometimes lose mine. But I would like to ask if anyone is still contemplating the message for tomorrow if there is any Truth in my take on this text.
I ran around with a person who seems to not care for the Truth, but only makes up 'truth' to serve his ends. And, hey, who of us isn't in this same boat from time to time. Is Jesus telling us that we are to serve His Truth and not just what we decide to be true and will therefore be to our comfort and benefit? I did an emphasis on ecotheology/environmental ministry in seminary, just graduated last year. But take global warming for instance, it seems that we evade or deny it but it is becoming more apparent that there's too much evidence that it is the Truth for us to neglect our role to minister to the least of these and get off our affluence band wagon. Doing right is wearisome...do we need to repent and get on with the call of Christ to love one another and stop the destruction of Creation? PoinSpirit
Date: 31 Aug 2002
Time: 16:01:07
In M. Scott Peck's book "People of the Lie" as he works to develop a psychology of evil he says something that very much speaks to the topic of evil/suffering that has popped here this week. What he says is:
"Dozens of times I have been asked by patients or acquaintances: 'Dr. Pec, why is there evil in the world?' Yet no one has ever asked me all these years: 'Why is there good in the world?' It is as if we automatically assume this is a naturally good world that has somehow been contaminated by evil. In terms of what we know of science, however it is actually easier to explain evil... If we seriously think about it, it probably makes more sesnse to assume this is a naturally evil world that has somehow been mysteriously 'contaminated' by goodness rather than the other way around. The mystery of goodness is even greater than the mystery of evil." page 41
As I read this I see God "contaminating" our world with good! Mark in WI
Date: 04 Oct 2002
Time: 09:12:29
vs 27 reminds me of rev22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. and matt 16:27 says For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. look at vs 28 is says that some of them (beeing the desciples ) would not taste of death till they see the son of man come. and guess what vs 28 isn't talking about the transfiguration do you know why cause all the desciples were alive during the transfiguration i mean come one ch 17 vs 1 six days after Jesus siad this the transfiguration happened i think Christ did come back in the desciples lifetime. ~johnathan