Date: 25 Jun 2002
Time: 21:09:36

Comments

The invitation on the base of the Statue of Liberty might no longer be quite valid. The promise to welcome the huddled masses to this land is empty, in most cases. If we do not welcome the huddled masses, what promise is there for them? What promise is there for us, when this already free land cannot offer complete protection from persecutors?

The promise for them, and the promise for us, is one that will never become stale or invalid. The promise that remains is the promise of Jesus, “Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.” No matter what the suffering, no matter what the persecution, no matter what the loss of life, Jesus remains as the one who will give us rest, as the one who will pick us up when we are bowed down under the burdens life gives us, as the one who saves us.

This is true freedom.

Michelle

PS I won't be able to respond to any questions, as I will be on vacation now until July 6. Had to get the message written before I left!


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 17:12:35

Comments

Michelle -enjoy your vacation!

As regards Jesus' beckoning to "come unto me", some of those heavy burdens we carry are OUR own culpability for the sin and greed and destruction in the world.. "God bless America" doesnt mean: "God chose America"; it means: "God heal America!"

David in Keene, NH


Date: 30 Jun 2002
Time: 13:27:42

Comments

Why has the woe of Chorazin and Bethsaida not been included in this reading (vv. 20-24)? I think I shall include it as it contrasts with and underscores the verses which follow.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 30 Jun 2002
Time: 16:47:06

Comments

Are not the burdens Jesus is speaking of those placed upon them by the Pharisees? All those rules! I was once reminded that we do the same thing as clergy. We lay a lot of guilt on people if they miss one single event the church offers. A friend of mine who retired recently said, "We expect people to keep the Sabbath and spend time with their families. Yet, when do we schedule events? You got it - on the Sabbath!"

Another thought --As clergy we wear a stole. This reminds us of the burden that Jesus has given us as his disciples. PH in OH


Date: 30 Jun 2002
Time: 18:39:12

Comments

This is way off topic but I would like the opinion of those who preach the lectionary cycle – if you post on the discussion board – that's fine, I'll pick it up there.

I normally preach every other week, I won't be preaching this coming week but on the 17th my pastor is going into hospital to have his other hip replaced. He's to be out of commission for about 7 weeks. First I'd like to ask for your prayers for a speedy recovery and for me that I rely upon God as acting pastor.

My real problem: The little homiletics I received stressed that the homily should not contain too much in the way of personal illustration. What I have found in 10 years of preaching is that when I draw upon my own life experiences for illustrations it seems that the message come across. I'm not sure what the reasoning that was given for not using your own story. What are your thoughts- does effective preaching have to be impersonal?

PS several parishioners say that they like the homilies better with the personal references.

Deke in TX - Pace e Bene


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 04:31:11

Comments

Greetings,

I have found that sharing the Gospel is indeed telling how God has and is interviening in my life and in the lives of those around me(often times those around me are those I read about). Sometimes I may stress some great Theology or build on a faith image, but I always come from the Bible to life or from a life experience to a Bible truth. I cann't separate who I am from what I preach. However the balance I put on the story is that Jesus in always the hero not me. The "So What" is that we are called to give our "TESTIMONIES" and encourage others to do so as well. TP in UK


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 04:53:03

Comments

Deke said, "The little homiletics I received stressed that the homily should not contain too much in the way of personal illustration. What I have found in 10 years of preaching is that when I draw upon my own life experiences for illustrations it seems that the message come across."

I heard that in seminary.... after several years of preaching, and listening to the sermons of others, I've decided that anti-personal-story bias is horse___t. The use of our own experiences makes preaching authentic and it therefore connects with our hearers. The danger is that personal stories can get maudlin. Stay away from that, and I think personal stories are fine.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 06:19:07

Comments

"The little homiletics I received stressed that the homily should not contain too much in the way of personal illustration"

Deke, My undergrad degree, prior to seminary, was in speech. I learned in seminary that most homiletics profs were very good at writing sermons but not at delivering them. Personal experience invites your listeners in to share the reality of your message. Go for it.

Pastor Rick, Fl


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 06:37:39

Comments

Deke:

Add me to those who, like you, were taught not to get personal, but have learned that it is the best way. People want to hear real stories. It is best not to get too personal and name names in stories about others, but they love to hear about how you have been in a bad situation. It is another reminder that we all sin, and all need help. It would be too bad if we came across as having no sin or problems of our own.

We do not often find in the Gospels that Jesus uses himself as an example in his teaching, because his life is very different fom ours. This week's gospel is the exception. According to v. 19 Jesus did drink wine! (I doubt if they would call him a drunkard if his drinking were milk or water.) This, in itself, can be a message to the overly pious. But the main point seems to be that some people are always looking for something to complain about, and it usually is an attempt to distract lead away from the main emphasis. Any excuse to keep from hearing and doing what we should be hearing and doing. Hasn't changed much in 2000 years has it?

This is a good time to get in some teaching on original sin. "If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves..."

JRW in OH


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 06:38:00

Comments

Any comments on Vss 16-19? Chuck in Arkansas


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 07:23:19

Comments

Comments on 16-19:

I read somewhere that this means that people can find any reason to complain about the prophet/preacher in order to disregard the message.

Sorry I don't remember where I read it though. I thought it insightful

Pr.del in IA


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 07:23:53

Comments

I will be preaching on vss. 16-19. The sheer perversity and contrariness of humanity and the steadfast love of God in Christ. Pastor Rick in FL


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 07:49:34

Comments

Deke in TX

Personal experience helps draw people into the story when used well.

I have also experienced when the the personal story became the centre of the attention and thus drew people away from the Good News. On another occasion, I watched as a priest "emoted" all over the place instead of helping to offer Christ's healing to a community when it was greatly needed after a young person died in a very tragic accident. Another pastor ended up councelling people for the effects of the funeral service, not the death.

I try to discern what the story is really saying. But for the most part it's good to walk with people on this journey.

kt


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 09:48:01

Comments

Re verses 16-19: Perhaps it is saying that there are some folks you just cannot please! :-) I really liked the comment from Michelle regarding the connection with verses 28-30 with the statement on the Statute of Liberty. Truly, God through Jesus is the only way to peace and fulfillment, to rest and freedom. Deke, if there is something in your individual history as you preach this week that speaks to that, by all means use it! We have been sent out like the 12 to preach the Good News. I believe that the people responded to the disciples because they shared from their PERSONAL experiences as well. May God bless our thoughts and the inspirations of our hearts this week - as we seek to bring a message of hope and freedom in this time of fear and bondage. Peace to you all, Betty in NY


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 10:39:12

Comments

Thanks to all of you real experts at homiletics. What you say speaks to my experience and so I will continue to preach the best way I know. Perhaps in homiletics the old saw, "them that can do and them that can't teach." is appropriate.

Now get back to breaking open this lection - while I don't preach this week - I love to read my sisters and brothers take on the readings. God bless you all - Pace e Bene - Deke in TX


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 10:44:25

Comments

Deke, my homiletics teacher told me that it is okay, actually good to use personal experiences, as long as you are not seeking the sympathy of the congregation, or needing them to take care of you as you go through a crisis... if you have worked through your trial and can point to God at the end of it... using yourself as an illustration... always asking permission of family or people in the congregation before you use them as an example. Make sure you are spiritually and emotionally healthy (although there is nothing wrong in saying, "I'm struggling right now," as long as you are not expecting the congregation to take care of you). Hope this helps RevD in BG


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 13:50:52

Comments

Deke, there is a story told of an older church member who cornered the new pastor after the service. Her advice to him was to the point: "I didn't come to hear you tell me what God has said to other people. I want to know what God has said to you. I didn't come to hear you tell me what God has done in other people's lives -- I want to know what God has done in your life."

As for the passage this week, it has struck me that some people are too clever for their own good, even too clever to be holy! Why else do some show such caution as to not dance when the tune in being played, or not share in the suffering of those who mourn? It is hard work, and a heavy burden, to always feel that we have to be one step (at least) ahead of those around us, rather than simply present with them -- as Christ is present with us.

OLAS


Date: 01 Jul 2002
Time: 16:51:18

Comments

Hello all.

Firstly a word of thanks to you all for your contributions last week. I was desperate and your insights enabled me to provide God's people with a message.

For me, this passage speaks about the dilemma of the paradox of truth. Just like God's word is a two-edged sword, so is confusion. People are never satisfied, and no matter what occurs in life, there will be those who always find the negative.

This constant to-ing and fro-ing is what wears people out. They get tired of the constant bickering and disputing over who is right and who is wrong. We see this best in the political sphere. No matter what one party might say, the other party will dispute it, often whether it is correct or not.

Jesus offers an alternative. An inclusiveness that embraces all the options and unites them in the grace of God's overarching love for humankind.

The Church will never satisfy people's demands, because no matter what we offer it will never be enough, or it will too much.

As Jesus observes, little children don't have any of this problem, because they simply accept life and the people and events that are placed in front of them. Oh for people like that as a priest! But then again??? Do you see what I mean.

We come to Christ, because we are tired with the constant round of decisions. That was the curse of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It wears us out with attempting to discern what is good and proper and right.

I am so pleased to rest in Christ, when the occasion presents itself.

Regards

KGB in Aussie.


Date: 02 Jul 2002
Time: 04:58:37

Comments

I'm in the midst of moving and pulling together a sermon at the same time, concentration is hard. But here are my rambles. My thoughts turned to What can I compare this generation? We are in the midst of great opportunity for the church in this century. It has never been like this before, with the spiritual hunger that we compete for in the culture, which can be for the church or it can be for other religions. I read in the circuit rider this week some interesting facts about trends. The first generation of females to grow up in a culture that has not fully experienced second class notions of feminity is now entering adulthood. This is a generation of technology information. Will our churches participate in the game of lifegiving change or will we sit on the sidelines and whine, that we don't want to play, because of our traditions or theological stuckedness. Has your church learned how to dance? What would it look like to learn the electric slide in witnessing our faith. Can we ballroom dance the board meeting? If we won't dance will we cry? Will we cry a prophetic message in the wilderness. Will we weep for the sins of this generation? Remember how after a long day of play or even after losing that little league baseball game when the game was over the coach or mom and dad gave you that popscicle or soda, to signal it is time to slow down and rest. After we have played church all week, on Sabbath Jesus calls us to Come, in from the playground and rest.

Gen


Date: 02 Jul 2002
Time: 16:14:55

Comments

Hello folks,

I'm on vacation and I'm not preaching this weekend... still, I would ask for prayers for a member of my church who was on a fishing trip in the wilderness area of Canada... he, his brother and their two sons were alone on a lake, 1/2 mile portage by foot... a wave hit the "fathers" boat while the sons were up ahead. The wave through the one father (my parishoner) into his brother, throwing them both overboard. The boat was stuck on full throttle... circling... the two men were clinging to a seat cushion. The one brother (my parishoner) got a cramp in his leg and went down... his brother could not save him. The brother thinks now he may have suffered a heart attack prior to going "under". This happened a week ago today... they finally found the body Sunday.

The parishoner had a wife, and two grown children... thankfully the son did not witness his father going under water. Still, the brother of the deceased did and is having a very difficult time...well, then again, they all are.

Family and friends and co-workers need prayers. The funeral is NEXT Monday... and I'll be home by then (we're on vacation). Any prayers will be appreciated...thanks...

pulpitt in ND


Date: 02 Jul 2002
Time: 16:48:42

Comments

Deke.....let me add my 10 cents worth too. As a preacher for 28 years I feel the personal story can be an item that the folks can relate to but the message or point of the homily must connect to the scripture. I use personal examples and stories but they are not the focus but a means to get people tuned in to what the point will be that God wants them to hear. I know they will hear God's Word spoken through me. Ed


Date: 02 Jul 2002
Time: 22:50:48

Comments

Sermon Title "Is this some kind of Yoke?" You want rest and Jesus offers a yoke. The rest for the soul is the re-creation that allows us to live all of life with Jesus alongside - learning lessons of gentleness and humility. If you put those qualities in to all your life especially in the burdened parts there will be real healing for the inner being. Blessings Petereo.


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 04:44:04

Comments

pulpitt in ND,

This tragic accident happened in my area. Our congregation holds a Prayer Circle every Thursday afternoon. I will be sure to include this family, their friends and colleagues, and you as their pastor in the prayers for the week.

blessings, SueCan


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 06:49:45

Comments

Deke - Chalk up another one who was taught in seminary not to include personal experiences in sermons. Actually, my professor said to limit the use of personal experiences for the reasons others have already listed. I tried to avoid using any personal references until parishioners started asking for them. We're all more inclined to join the excitement of someone who's heard good news rather than having just heard about it. Present yourself as one who has heard the good news. A stand up comic once said that successful jokes are those that present situations that most people have already experienced. Personal stories that reflect our common journey are good for drawing people into the good news. That's what Jesus did. He used stories that reflected person's experiences to help them see the bigger picture. Unfortunately, few of us can tell stories like he did. Our stories have to do. Use those stories, but don't make them the whole sermon. Remember, the yoke is easy because it distributes the burden along the oxen shoulders and because each ox isn't dependent on itself alone. May your yoke be easy having shared the "burden" of the task before you. Peace HAM in IL


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 07:24:07

Comments

People are never satisfied. ?? Have you never heard the truth that we clergy truly can satisfy ALL our people? We satisfy some when we arrive, some while we are there, and the rest when we leave. Pilgrim in Can.


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 08:34:38

Comments

I have just a couple of comments for discussion on the text. "To what can I compare this generation?" The thought occurs to me, with this being Independence Day coupled with the fact that the vast majority of my congregation are survivors of the WWII, there may be a way to draw from the Commitment of the "Greatest Generation" 50 years ago. Sacrifice was made by all because of the greater good. The yoke of Christ requires sacrifice as well. Not so popular an idea in a day like the present one but the cause is far greater than that which motivated the "greatest generation" and yet there seems to be lest interest in making a complete surrender to the cause of Christ on the part of many in the church. One other quick thought. Being like children who said, "We played to flute for you but you did not dance; we sand a dirge and you did not mourn." Can that be taken as an analogy likened unto the tail wagging the dog. Just interested in some feedback. Thanks. Blacksmith


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 09:39:53

Comments

Greetings all,

In our study group this morning, we took a look at the "missing" verses 20-24. Pretty heavy stuff. Jesus gives the gears in a serious way to those who have seen the miracles, heard the word, and yet remain unresponsive. He pretty much tells them they're doomed. Then he begins the prayer of verse 25.

Why, I wonder, were these verses left out? Did the lack of patience for the unfaithful not sit well with the creators of the lectionary? Did the tone fly in the face of the Jesus who is "gentle and humble in heart"?

Just a few thoughts at mid-week.....

SueCan


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 09:47:23

Comments

Light bulb :)

Perhaps the prayer itself turned Jesus' "doom" rhetoric into "gentle" rhetoric.....

Perhaps that is part of what Jesus means by "learn from me"........

SueCan


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 12:10:29

Comments

Deke, Real stories are great illustrations and attention getters. On the other hand, I know one preacher who is the hero of every sermon he preachs. Another I know uses emotional personal stories to manipulative an emotional response. In other words, tears equal a successful sermon. We've probably all heard inappropriate personal stories from preachers. I have found that the stories of others I know or have read about can be very powerful as well and keep the focus off the preacher. (Careful of boundaries, of course.) Go ahead and tell personal stories. They are great, just keep an eye on your own modivation.

NKL in WI


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 12:31:42

Comments

Eric and Deke, Eric, it's horse WHAT??? :-) The scriptures are not to be a sterile work. They are living. I think we have to be cautious to not always tell our stories. However, as someone on this site said, there is always a "So what?" I usually share my gathered insights from the scripture and then ask a question something like, "And what does that mean for our lives?" It is here that our stories and journeys enter. I totally agree with Eric. That is so much horse "stuff." lp in CO


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 12:46:46

Comments

Vs 11 Weary from what? Weary because no matter what, the people cannot be satisfied? Doesn't that imply that the weary ones have been out in the field sharing the good news? Does this scripture say more about the weariness that can come from being a disciple rather than the weariness that comes from our losses in life? Random thoughts here. Anyone else see this scripture this way? lp in CO


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 14:29:57

Comments

Empathy, feeling-with another, also seems to be an important theme in this passage. The failure/sin is in not sharing in another's celebration or in another's sorrow, and of not understanding who they are as real people, real vessels of God's grace.

I ask forgiveness from our friends who are part of this site, yet not living in the USA, but I have a confession that perhaps can only be shared in this site at this time -- there have been times when I have resisted strongly any reference to Independence Day in the worship service since I, "the wise and intelligent," knew that I was to be about the business of God's kingdom and not an earthly kingdom -- and someone had to let the people know that! They played the flute, and I did not dance; they cried over the cost of freedom won, and I did not mourn. This passage challenges me deeply. And while I will still keep the focus of worship on the Risen Christ and his kingdom, I will also sing with them "America". My hope is that they will know that I love our country, so that they may trust me and come to love my God.

OLAS


Date: 03 Jul 2002
Time: 21:04:01

Comments

Olas, I do agree. I did not mean to infer that this scripture does not address the hurts of life. However, I think sometimes we do not emphasize enough, or at least I don't, the weariness of the true disciple. And...if we are not weary, why not? lp in CO


Date: 04 Jul 2002
Time: 05:22:00

Comments

I think some contributors this week have touched on an important insight.

There is a cost to individual discipleship that wears away at you. It is in recognising that there is so much that Christ's message has to offer, and yet on our own, in our own strength we seem to have such limited time and limited resources and limited success. It is a heavy burden upon us personally as we attempt to carry the loving concern of God into the lives of people.

But as HAM in IL mentions the yoke distributes the load. In many churches in Australia, the load of ordained ministry is now being shared by laity. Many of the things that were once the exclusive domain of clergy are now being done by trained lay ministers. Partly this is because of the declining numbers of clergy in this country and partly because the church has recognised that the task has become too oppressive for clergy to achieve it on their own. As we face an increasingly secular environment the task of spreading the gospel becomes increasingly prohibitive to the "professional" few. The load has to be shared.

I am reminded here of the physics of mass and area. (Stiletto heel versus an elephant's foot) Spreading the load, reduces the effect of the weight.

Whilst this shift in ministry emphasis is still being hotly debated, the benefits of sharing the load cannot be denied.

For many who have been wearied by the years of bashing the pavements to gain some movement in people's attitudes, and even some growth in their own congregations, such moves must provide some welcome relief and a sense of hope to a faltering and diminishing church.

If the Church is Christ's body on earth, than we need to hear Christ's words as he invites us to come and share with the other faithful. In so doing we lighten the load upon ourselves as individuals.

Take up the yoke, and share the load with your brothers and sisters.

Perhaps that's what I find so attractive about this discussion site. In a sense we share the load!!

Regards,

KGB


Date: 04 Jul 2002
Time: 10:16:19

Comments

It seems to me that the first half of the Gospel deals with the unwillingness of those who suffer from some type of spiritual privilege from embracing the teachings and lives of John (the funeral lament) and Jesus (the wedding dance). Those who already "know" need not search any further. They are satisfied. No matter if God were appear again in the flesh, they would already be content!

This type of knowing manifests itself in our time several ways, but mostly between those who rationalize their faith and those whose hearts are full of love. How do we help our people fill their hearts and empty their heads so that they come to a full knowing of the grace before them.

Those who are infants within our congregations, know at a level that we, even those of us with a seminary education, don't fully understand. They are the ones who have come to Jesus and know the easiness of their burdens.

tom in ga


Date: 04 Jul 2002
Time: 12:43:16

Comments

I've nissed reading the commentary from all of your for the last few weeks as I've been away from the pulpit for bit attending Annual Conference and taking a couple of Sundays of mych needed vacation.

I am using this Sunday closest to 4 July to celebrate our our U.S. heritage and freedoms, as I note some others are doing -- with apologies to our friends beyond the borders of the U.S. (You may want to ignore this posting.)

My title this week is "A Place of Rest" and the essence of the message that I'm working with is the very thing with which Michelle led off the discussion. After the events of 11 Sept. (and even before, in the minds of many people) the words of Emma Lazarus which are carved at the base of Lady Liberty have a hollow ring. God has richly blessed us -- as God has also richly blessed others in other places. How much more might we all be blessed if we take our rest in Jesus Christ


Date: 04 Jul 2002
Time: 12:44:28

Comments

Oops! forgot to sign...and excuse the typos, please!

StudentPastor in KS


Date: 04 Jul 2002
Time: 19:23:38

Comments

Really good and insightful stuff this week, since I'm not preaching, I wish that I could be in one of your congregations this Sunday. Thanks to all who answered my question on the use of things out of ones personal life in preaching. Having experienced the preacher who brings his problems before the congregation rather than illuminating the scriptures I don't think that I've fallen into that trap, yet.

Special thanks to Tom in Ga for making the connection between the wedding dance and the funeral dirge – Jesus and John. That sounds true, and it didn't occur to me. Just joshing – I learn at least one important thing and often several from this forum.

SueCan, are you going to use those "missing verses"? I too wonder why the lectionarians (made up that word) excised verses. Often it seemed that they wanted to cut something particularly harsh out of the reading. A dear friend of mine once said of scripture that the verse that you love this best is one that you have successfully worked through and the one that you like the least is the one that you desperately need to take to heart.

Pace e Bene – Deke in TX.


Date: 04 Jul 2002
Time: 19:31:10

Comments

pulpitt in ND, I've been praying for the family that was hit by such an awful tragedy and for you. I worry that especially the brother is blaming himself and perhaps the sons are also. May God's Spirit be with you Monday. Pace e Bene Deke in TX.


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 05:54:48

Comments

Concerning the meaning of vv. 16-19: I was wondering how those verses tied in with vv.25-30 until I came across this tidbit from an exegesis linked to "The Text This Week" site. I don't recall the specific link, but the exegesis was by J. Hampton Keathley III:

“Easy” is chrestos. It is from a verb which means “useful, manageable, serviceable, that which fills a need and is well fitting.” In other words, it is designed to fit our needs; it is tailor-made. “Light” is elaphros, “light in weight, agile, not burdensome, or overbearing.”

Unlike the burden the Pharisees (and that many worldly forces try to lay upon us today) tried to place on the people, which must have made the common people feel as if nothing they did ever satisfied these religious elite (vv. 16-19!), the religious demands of Jesus are simple and straightforward. Furthermore, the burden is made even easier because we are yoked with One who, far from making our obligations to God weigh more heavily upon us, helps us to carry the load! (See "previous discussion" in reference to the way farmers used to yoke an older animal with a young, inexperienced animal). This has brought the whole text into focus for me, and helped me set my course for this week's sermon. Hope it helps others. Ken in WV

P.S. RevAmy, are you out there?


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 13:02:33

Comments

I'm going out on a limb here and letting my politics show or something like that ...

I'm a strict-separationist when it comes to matters of church and state and have been since Junior High. I remember thinking sometime in 7th or 8th grade that the Pledge of Allegiance, with those two words "under God", was unconstitutional. Without them, of course, it would not be subject to constitutional attack unless it was absolutely required. (And, in fact, a required recitation of the Pledge was condemned by the Supreme Court in the 1940's - before the "under God" addition - when objected to by Jehovah's Witnesses.)

Anyway, I applauded the 9th Cir. court's decision for the following reason: It takes seriously the meaning of the words "under God". The two judges who reached the decision believe that those words have significant meaning. The dissent, however, suggested otherwise.

Noting that we have currency which says "In God We Trust", a Congress which begins its day with a prayer, a Supreme Court which begins its sessions with "God save the United States and this Honorable Court," dissenting Judge Ferdinand Fernandez called all of these (and the "under God" words in the Pledge)as examples of "ceremonial deism" in American political tradition. The dissenter then concluded, "When all is said and done, the danger that 'under God' in our Pledge of Allegiance will tend to bring about a theocracy or suppress somebody's beliefs is so minuscule as to be de minimis."

It's that reference to the legal maxim, "De minimis non curat lex," that bothers me. The maximum means, "The law doesn't concern itself with trifles." Applied to words like "under God" and "in God we trust" and to practices like Congressional prayer and the invocation of God each day in the Supreme Court, the maxim suggests that religion (in particular, monotheistic religion in which the believer places all trust in the Almighty and lives under the reign of God) is a trifle!

A trifle, just in case anyone isn't sure, is "Something of little importance or value" according to the dictionary. Is that what we really think of the words "under God" or of trusting in God or of beginning legislative or juridical sessions with prayer? That such words and acts are "of little importance or value"?

The decision of the two-judge majority in the 9th Circuit says otherwise. It says those words ARE important. But if the dissent is right, if the en banc panel of the 9th Circuit overrules the decision, or if it goes to the Supreme Court and it overrules, the reason will be, and the public pronouncement of the American legal system will be, as stated in the dissent. That is, that those words and actions are simply a "trifle."

And then the words of Jesus in this lesson will apply with great power to our country: "To what will I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to one another, 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not mourn.'"

To paraphrase these words: "We said this nation was 'under God', but you did not act like it; we said, 'In God we trust', but you did not trust in God; we prayed each day in Congress and in the Supreme Court, but you did not pray."

I'm glad the 9th Circuit reached the decision it reached. It made people think about those words and the brouhaha that has erupted underscores their importance. For that reason, the 9th Circuit's decision should be hailed and upheld -- the word's ARE important, they are not a trifle. "De minimis non curat lex" does not apply to them!

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 13:10:42

Comments

Dear Ken in WV, Thanks. That constrast between chrestos being easy, kindly [in Zerwick & Grosvenor's Grammatical analysis] and custom-made in the comment you brought forward is very helpful. Really brings it home! Thanks. Aloha in CA


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 14:17:44

Comments

WHOA! ERIC IN KS, You had me going there for a while as I read your posting. It was your final sentences that hit me like a ton of bricks. Powerful and thank you! lp in CO


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 18:17:24

Comments

Hi, I haven't been here for a few weeks out on vacation. My husband and I have just returned from Holland, Luxemburg, Beligium and England (Well parts of each!) We were saddened by an obvious increase in the level of suspician and rejection of peoples desiring to emmigrate to the countries since 1992. Much of the talk was very racist and sometime very obvious. I know that emmigration is always hard but the racist aspect of it really disturbed us. Nancy-WI


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 20:50:28

Comments

Greetings and Peace to All:

I have been very much enjoying your postings over the last year since I found you. I thought I'd let you know I'm lurking here...not usually much of a talker..except of course in the pulpit!! I am a lay leader/preacher in a multi-point parish in Ontario, Canada. We are currently without a senior priest in our Parish so there are a few of us that fill in on a regular basis. I do so about every three to four weeks (this week is one of them!)and have been for the last two years while I continue my part-time studies towards ordination.

I just wanted to say how how much I appreciate all the 'fodder' as I call it, I gain from you. You are all very insightful and spontaneous with your knowledge and thoughts.

I am going with the Gospel and also adding in a little of those missing verses this week. Can't understand why they would be left out as I feel they add an important element to repentance and on the other side of the coin,thankfulness.

Have a wonderful one!!

victoria

ps...Deke, I wanted to mention, I frequently use a small piece of my own life to illustrate a point or story. I don't necessarily tell them everytime that it is personal but when I do I know from the comments that it is always a positive thing to do to bring the word closer to life.


Date: 05 Jul 2002
Time: 20:50:46

Comments

Greetings and Peace to All:

I have been very much enjoying your postings over the last year since I found you. I thought I'd let you know I'm lurking here...not usually much of a talker..except of course in the pulpit!! I am a lay leader/preacher in a multi-point parish in Ontario, Canada. We are currently without a senior priest in our Parish so there are a few of us that fill in on a regular basis. I do so about every three to four weeks (this week is one of them!)and have been for the last two years while I continue my part-time studies towards ordination.

I just wanted to say how how much I appreciate all the 'fodder' as I call it, I gain from you. You are all very insightful and spontaneous with your knowledge and thoughts.

I am going with the Gospel and also adding in a little of those missing verses this week. Can't understand why they would be left out as I feel they add an important element to repentance and on the other side of the coin,thankfulness.

Have a wonderful one!!

victoria

ps...Deke, I wanted to mention, I frequently use a small piece of my own life to illustrate a point or story. I don't necessarily tell them everytime that it is personal but when I do I know from the comments that it is always a positive thing to do to bring the word closer to life.


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 05:12:20

Comments

Hi All,

this is my first contact having just changed jobs and come to the RCL for the first time as a regular pattern.

I was interested by Eric in KS. I am a priest in the Church of England (which is an established Church and therefore very much tied in with the state) so I can identify with the desire to keep Church and state separate, but why would anyone want to separate GOD from the state? Surely this way lies corruption and confusion?

I would think that the invitation to take the Lord's yoke is just as much to the corporate state as the individual.

Tony in the UK


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 05:57:26

Comments

My Anglican brother Tony asked, "Why would anyone want to separate GOD from the state? Surely this way lies corruption and confusion?"

Tony, who gets to define what the state means by "God"? Our constituional founders understood that "God" simply can't be defined by the state and chose, therefore, not to include any reference to the Almighty in our foundational document. A recent editorial made this point:

"Before the Constitution was ratified, one delegate tried to add this to the preamble: 'We the people of the United States in a firm belief of the being and perfection of the one living and true God ... .'

"Another tried to rewrite Article 6, which says, 'no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification' for public office.

"A Virginia delegate wanted it to say this: 'No other religious test shall ever be required than a belief in the only one true God.'

Geez. Our blessed federal courts have had enough trouble defining words like 'establishment' and 'free exercise.' Imagine if they had tried to define 'the only one true God.'

Would you rather have Thurgood Marshall define God for you, or Clarence Thomas? The Warren court, or the Rehnquist court?" ("Fathers wisely left God out of 'perfect union'" by DAVID WATERS, July 3, 2002)

I'm quite sure that my definition (understanding) of who and what God is is different from my Hindu neighbor's, my Mormon neighbor's, my Muslim neighbor's, my Native American neighbor's, my atheist neighbor's, etc. In a pluralist nation even a simple reference to "God" is not terribly "simple". The only way we could tolerate even that would be to dumb-down the concept of God to something most religionists would (or at least ought to) find offensive.

This is what Judge Fernandez did when he referred to "ceremonial deism" in American politics. I don't want "ceremonial deism" (what others call "civic religion") -- it denigrates and demeans true religion!

As I see it, trying to include God in our state politics is the way to "corruption and confusion" -- corruption of religion and confusion about who and what God is in our lives.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 06:28:50

Comments

PS to Tony in the UK:

Welcome to the RCL and to DPS! I'm an Episcopal priest in the US and started using the RCL about two years ago. I found it a liberating challenge after several years of the prayer book lectionary, and these ecumenical folks on the DPS have been a great resource for sermon preparation.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 06:29:52

Comments

Thanks for that Eric, I'm sure glad that we don't have a written constitution in this country!

Back to the point, I came across the illustration that Jesus may well have made many yokes for oxen in his life as a carpenter. This idea could be expanded upon, description of correct measurements for individual pairs - making sure that it fit properley and didn't cause sores by rubbing.

If Jesus were to make a yoke for us who would our partner be? It would be Jesus himself.

Cheers

Tony in the UK


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 07:13:34

Comments

Good Morning All, Sat., 8:00a.m. here, plenty of time left for the rest of you to come around to my way of thinking(forgive me, I guess I'm kinda punchy from 3 days of fireworks barrage in the neighborhood).

O.K., here's my take on the children in the marketplace. I like the reference to dirging John and piping Jesus, and if you include the skipped verses it sure seems like a complaint that these cities wouldn't follow the lead of these two. But I came at it the opposite direction. "This generation" is like the children, whiny kids who want their own way. Here is a paraphrase(I wish there was an extended typeface that indicated a whining tone, but you can read this in that voice, you've heard it before) - "We wanted to play 'wedding' but you wouldn't dance. We wanted to play 'funeral' but you wouldn't wail. You never do what we want. We're just going to take our ball and go home!" John came fasting, calling for repentence and you said,"Oh. He's too right wing Fundamentalist, talking as though Sin was something real and something we have. He needs to have his head examined." I come eating and drinking and you say,"My! He's one of those left wing liberals with his social gospel down in the slums with the riff-raff. Thinks he'll save the world by being a do-gooder. He needs to get serious. These guys are too extreme for us. We just want decent quiet pastor who will join the Rotary, say grace at the covered dish supper, visit our shut-ins and preach a dignified funeral or officiate a sweet wedding. They don't play by our rules."

I considered, like Eric, tying this into the whining over "under God" in the pledge. (Whine-Type again)"But if we take God out of the pledge, how will the little heathen children ever come to know God and Jesus? You know we've been going down the tubes in this country since they took prayer out of the schools!(or about the same time they put God IN the pledge. hmm..) If we don't force our religion on all the kiddies, God will forsake us for sure.He will make US the minority!" My parents generation, who Tom Brokaw has got us all calling "The Greatest Generation", who saved the world for democracy, grew up reciting the pledge without God in it. How did they get so righteous? Maybe because the Church in that generation took responsibilty for passing down the faith instead of relegating that job to the state! (O.K., you can read that in Rant-Voice) I considered titling the sermon "Would You Like Some Cheese With That Whine?" That was Tuesday. I've calmed down some since then. I like Michelle's linking "come to me" to the statue of Liberty. The Romans text also fits those who want to know where to flee for freedom of the fear of terrorism(this body of death) - only to God, through Jesus Christ, the open door.

The missing verses are good. So is the missing lection. I'm thinking of referring to the passage passed over(11:1-15), that of John sending his disciples to question Jesus. It seems a good counter-point to the whining types who want God to act their expected way. John has serious questions. Are you the one? Is there another? Jesus respects honest searching and doubt. He gives the disciples of John a message, "Tell him what you've seen." Jesus trusts that John will know enough of the prophets to "get" the answer for himself, with the aid of the Holy Spirit.

The contrast comes home for me when Jesus says, "Now you who really are burdened by the status quo in the world, who really want to learn how to change the situation instead of merely complaining about it, come with me. I will yoke us up together, bearing the greater weight myself, until you can learn the method yourself."

Thanks for the yoke reference found in previous discussion. Sorry to all the fellow DPs outside the U.S. for being so provincial. I'm glad you are out there, and on here. Love you all, tom in TN(USA!) that Yank loves his exclamation points, doesn't he...


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 07:55:22

Comments

O.K., Here is an illustration that anyone, any where can use,(Sorry about the rampant Americanism in my last post)concerning yoking.

I'm reading "Ordering Your Private World" by Gordon McDonald(Thomas Nelson,Nashville) He suggests that the work for new Christians, especially older converts, is to begin to think about everything from a Christian viewpoint. "To think Christianly means to look at our world from the perspective that it is made and owned by God, that what we do with this creation will have to be accounted for, and that it is important to make choices based on the laws of God....A person who has not enjoyed the advantage of a lifelong Christian context is not likely to gain that total perspective easily. ...For this kind of person thinking will be done more by commitment than by Christian instinct." McDonald says the key is acculturation, and what is needed is a Christian family to learn in, but this is growing harder as we get more secular as a society.

McDonald goes on to say that long-time Christians may suffer an opposite problem, the assumption that "Christianized mechanisms will work automatically." This christian needs recommitment from time to time to keep from "a deadness of religion, a boring faith, an ineffective witness to God."

So the older, wiser, instinctual Christian should be yoked to the newer, excited, vital Christian, each one's strengths aiding the other. This would make a good sermon in a situation where there is too much of one kind and not enough, or enough respect for, the other. tom in TN(USA)


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 08:48:44

Comments

Tom in TN -- In your last post, the stuff from Gordon MacDonald fits right in with my concerns about "ceremonial deism" -- thanks for that.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 11:03:53

Comments

Good afternoon DPS'ers. It has been a hectic week, with family problems, funerals, and an elderly parent four states away who needed to see her sons together for the holiday. Little time for real preparation, so thank you all for your yoke references/statue of liberty observation, it is all cooking into a sermon if I do not fall asleep first. Thanks for the inspiration.

ks in PA

Given how well the Constitution has held up I would not mind having the clarity of forethought that its authors did. Live near Gettysburg and feel the same way about the Gettysburg Address..still knocks my socks off. Blessings to the DPS community


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 12:21:56

Comments

It is late in the sermon preparation business. But as I have looked at the Gospel I understand, Ithink, why the Episcopal Lectionary left off the earlier verses: It is difficult to reconcile the "children" in the first verses with the "infants" in the concluding verses.

Perhaps that can be repaired by thinking of those in the first verses who play at being or acting like children and those who are indeed babes.

"Ceremonial deism" effects all of us. We have been raised to salute the flag, to sing the national anthem at sporting events, to pledge allegiance is schools and service clubs, to hold before us the nation's credo at all political events. How does this affect our faith in God? Awhile ago, if I remember correctly, there was some discussion about whether or not we should have the American Flag in church. The sound argument against having the flag present is that it confuses the symbols of the Christian church. What banner do we stand under, where is our ultimate alliegance? God or nation?

Just some questions in this late hour.

tom in ga


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 15:08:15

Comments

Realizing that this is late in the discussion, there are some points about an "easy" yoke that I learned from a person with a farming background that dated back to a time when yokes were more in use. The carpenter who fashioned the yoke didn't just throw together some pieces of wood and hand them to the farmer. Each side of the yoke was custom carved to be an exact and comfortable fit for the specific animal (probably an ox) that would use it. If the yoke didn't fit right and hurt, the ox wouldn't pull like he needed to. A yoke that fit well would "seat" itself across the ox's shoulders in such a way that it would also make it easier for the oxen together to pull the plow or wagon or whatever, making the burden easier or lighter to pull. This also means that it made a difference which side of the yoke a particular animal was put on. If the right side of the yoke was shaped for an animal, you don't put him on the left side. Christ needs us to be pulling our best so He wants us in the place He designed for us, doing our work and not the congregation's work and, most importantly, not Christ's work. When we are yoked in properly, that's when we get down to work.

Hmmm, I think I might have stepped on my own toes that time. Mike in Soddy Daisy, TN


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 15:36:24

Comments

TN I Agree I posted something like yours in Romans one.

TO the Pastor who said he disagreed with my opinion to leave GOD out of pledge. I said leave it in. However, WE Christians, need to really KNOW what say recite---yes recite... Just like at someone's funeral one never accepted God as Savior, wants amazing Grace sung.. What's with that? Grace? after death? RECITE and really mean are two differ things! TAKE IT TO HEART LIVE IT BREATH EMBRACE THE WORD OF GOD! PRAISE GOD THAT's why we were created. Pastor mary in OH


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 15:50:05

Comments

Tom in TN -- Can you give us page citations for the quotations from MacDonald?

Thanks, Eric in KS


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 17:48:58

Comments

>I'm going out on a limb here and letting my politics show or something like that ... <

Eric in KS

Well said...


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 17:58:54

Comments

>I'm going out on a limb here and letting my politics show or something like that ... <

Eric in KS

Well said... I only bring the flag in for Thanksgiving and Independence Day (Sundays as such). Sorry, that was me, Larry in MS.


Date: 06 Jul 2002
Time: 19:07:36

Comments

Eric in KS, I believe everything I quoted was on pages 101-102, but the whole section on thinking Christianly", starting around page 96 and going to 112 is thought provoking( as it is designed to be!)tom in TN(USA)


Date: 07 Jul 2002
Time: 11:43:23

Comments

Tom in TN: Thanks for the page reference.

All: I've posted my sermon for these lessons; the URL is

http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/asermons/proper9-a-rcl-2002.htm

If anyone is interested, that is...

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 07 Jul 2002
Time: 16:53:30

Comments

Good sermon, Eric. Style question for you(or anyone else who posts sermons) - Do you deliver it verbatim, or is the printed sermon a summation on which you sometimes expand or expound?

I serve 2 small congregations and when my wife attends both with me, she will comment that it sounds sometimes like 2 different sermons. I admit it sometimes does. I loosely outline and then sometimes skip a point and come back to it, editing on the fly. She nearly always prefers the first, less practiced version. Sometimes it is just the room. tom in TN(USA)


Date: 10 Jul 2002
Time: 21:07:51

Comments

Sue Can, Deke in TX and the rest of the DPS family...

Sorry for the delay in my "update" on the memorial service. We had the service on Monday and I want to thank you for the prayers... it went "well" and some good healing took place. It is now time to pick up the brokeness and move toward new life. I'm thankful for this medium... as prayers show no boundaries. Especially nice to know prayers from Canada to Texas surround the family, co-workers, pet owners and friends...

In God's abundance, thanks again,

pulpitt in ND I reflected on the experience in an article *soon to be on my pastor page (*7-11-2002) http://faithumcfargo.com


Date: 3/11/2003
Time: 1:04:31 AM

Comments

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