Does anybody out there know where I can get a copy of "The Myth of Separation" by David Barton? I need it for this sermon. revup
Does anybody out there know where I can get a copy of "The Myth of Separation" by David Barton? I need it for this sermon. revup
Anyone ever hear how animals (oxen) were fit for their yokes? I heard years ago when a child, but cannot remember the whole story!
This is the last Fourth of July we will celebrate in this decade and millennium. Thus it seems to me that independence and freedom should be the topics for our sermons, as we look toward a new time and age. How have we as a people used our freedom during this past century, what is true freedom any way? Indeed, how is this generation to be compared? What is the yoke but the freedom that Christ has given us.
tom in ga
I am tempted to preach on "The Yoke of Christ" and name the sermon "Politically Correct and Theologically Incorrect." As Christians we are not to change or alter the Gospel in order to placate individual's right to total freedom do as they chosse. It is not politically correct to teach the Gospel to Native Americans or other minorities, for example, because that is "destroying their culture." Unfortunately, I would say Jesus would be politically incorrect by today's standards. Look how He offended so many proud people for the way they lived their lives! revup
For those of us who are Episcopalian the issue of pride and humility continues (I WONDER WHY!) I feel a little like Nicodemus - "Who now that I have grown old, become an infant again? Now that I am educated in the humanities and in theology be freely open and depend on God? [Can a theologian/preacher be saved? - there is a discussion for Saint Thomas Aquinas.] Is it possible for me to trust the ground of faith, can I let go of control and security long enough to find the rest that my whole being yearns for?
tom in ga
The DPS family/covenant people of God usually do an excellent job of interpretation and witness of the word in fellowship. I want to express my appreciation to all participants. I believe the sharing of these diversified faith visions in a study group with the intent of facilitating the laos in Biblical covenant-making journey resulting in their own unique quest for Revelation would be an excellent way/adventure. Watson work on the dynamics of the Wesleyan covenant group could also provide a frame for facilitating this small group experience. PaideiaSCO in ga mountains.
11:28 "Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest" in a way is this not why so many of our fore fathers and mothers came to this country because of being so weary and heavy burden by systems of wealth that left the common the uneducated, the simple folk out. A place to rest from unfair laws and persecution. I know our history did not live up to it... but many did come here to find the promise land. In away Jesus was offering the promise land.. but not as a place but a state of being. Being in relationship with the father yoked with Christ. Today A day of Independence we the church teach that true freed and true rest is being interdependent with each other and Christ. Yoked together. As a nation our most golden era is still to come if only we truely yoke ourselves to each other both in mourning and joy. This first thought.. Thinking out loud in MS Ron
I agree with "tom in ga" that attention needs to be paid to the 4th of July as this being the last of this century. My question lies in how do we tie it with the Gosple lesson?
I new to this section and don't understand the protocol. Help will be appreciated. Les in Louisiana
"Habits of the Heart" would not be a bad resource in preparation for Sunday (Independence Weekend). How have we used our freedom - we have become the strongest free country in the world with a technology which cannot be seconded anywhere. We have made great strides in science and medicine; but how far have we come with our understanding of the poor. We would rather associate with the scribes, pharisees, those in royal palaces rather than the homeless or the destitude; we would rather believe as little as we can about Christ so that we may be comforted along with the status quo. We have a long way to go to make this day a day for everyone.
tom in ga
11:25 At that time Jesus said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants;
When those brave pilgrims came to these shores to worship God in spirit and in truth, the intelligent of the "continent" laughed and scorned them. Known as simpleton and spiritually naive, the intelligent community scoffed at their purity, simplicity, and devotion to the truth. How unintellectual they were to the world, but how precious to the Creator. Today's history books mock them as well. They are called primitive, backward, sophomoric, unschooled, ridged, dogmatic, and even stupid. To leave the comforts of "polite society" to venture to a wilderness simply to worship God in purity and truth - how absurdly unintelligent. Our texts do give them credit for being hardworking, dedicated, brave, industrial, forbearing, and "hearty individualists." Now these terms are politically correct. But sanctified, isolated, centered in Christ? Really, can this truly be necessary? (Asks the modern intellectual!)
Have not the "mainline churches" of today become exactly the same type of blaze affairs that our forefathers so hated and despised?
I recently participated in training where a man named Foster was touted as an expert on spiritual growth. His final stage of maturity involved being able to accept the truths of other people and cultured and being totally selfless. His examples of perfected persons were Christ and Gandhi. Hum, a heathen who rejected the Gospel as an example of Christian perfection - how intellectual! How politically correct -how spiritually stupid. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me ”. There is no truth outside of Christ. There is no culture, or government, or society which is not centered in Christ that is not intellectually troubled – financially troubled – socially troubled – spiritually troubled.
Our nation has been lied to for so long by the pseudo-intellectuals and to what true intelligence is that most of us miss the mark. We are taught to seek God with our intellect when Jesus taught to accept God’s truth as a small child – humbly, reverently, and in awe!
2 Chronicles 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
Dale in Norcatur, KS
tom in ga --
I like your tie with yoke and freedom. To me, freedom does not mean that we are free from any responsibilities, but that we have *added* responsibilities, e.g., more reponsible for others in a shared community of freedom. Freedom, like the Christian community, sometimes requires incredible sacrifice to continue. It also offers the luxury of rest, when freedom is not threatened or when others are protecting us. Again, this is like the church in that we can find rest in the midst of the yoke of discipleship because we are no longer alone, but yoked with Christ and with each other. It becomes a shared burden. Is that a link between freedom and the gospel, or am I stretching it a bit?
Les in Louisiana -- protocol?!? What's that? Seriously, I believe that there are some "Guidelines for Posting of DPS" near the submit button on this page. That might be helpful. Welcome.
Mark in Ark
Repeating a request of June 9th, HELP, please: "Does anybody out there know where I can get a copy of "The Myth of Separation" by David Barton? I need it for this sermon." I'll settle for a few quotes from Jefferson. revup
As I see it, Tom in GA has a helpful tack on connecting this text to Independence Day. It seems paradoxical to us, but I find it true, that it is when we are yoked to Christ, and willing to serve Christ wholeheartedly, that we experience freedom and rest.
In last week's Romans passage, Paul talked about freedom from sin. So many of us today can only seem to envision freedom as the freedom TO sin. How desperately we need to recapture the concept of community, of being yoked together, responsible to and for one another, and responsible to Christ. There is real joy and real freedom in that kind of life, however strange that sounds to the individualistic ears of our culture.
This week, my spouse and son are far away on a camping trip to the Boundary Waters. I was looking forward to the freedom of not having to serve them, not having to be responsible to them and for them. I am at the end of this week of "freedom" and I am SOOO tired of being on my own. I want the kind of structure in my life that doing things for them helps provide.
I don't often quote Billy Graham, but I think he was right on the mark when a reporter asked him what the biggest problem was for people today. He said, "They're lonely." In our atomistic, individualistic culture, we leave each other so alone, so vulnerable. To take on the yoke of Christ is to ease the burden of that lonely existence, and to find rest in relying on Christ. We were created for communion with God and community with each other. We won't be truly happy until we find it.
Just musing,
ST
Revup, The book you seek appears to be out of print. I found a couple of sites that might be helpful to you. There is a search service http://dogpile.com/ that is really helpful. It uses multiple search engines and you will be surprise to find that some get no it while others get many. I just did a search on " The Myth of Separation" and saw several promising sites. http://1faith.org/myth.html This site gives the text of an essay on the subject Thomas Jefferson and The Myth of Separation By Olivia Hanson
http://christiananswers.net/wall/frame0.html Connects to a Site, Wall Builders, Which is a group founded by David Barton
ST, It is a paradox that we experience freedom when we willingly take the yoke of Christ. The line that Janis Joplin sang in "Me and Bobby Magee" - "Freedom's when you have nothing else to lose" is a telling proverb. The more we have to lose the more bound up we are in it. I can't remember who wrote that song but he/she maybe knew more then they think. We have to let it all go before we can have anything. John of the Cross, the Spanish mystic and poet wrote on this saying that we have to give up what we want in order to have it.
"Where the Spirit is, there is liberty." -Deke in Texas - Pax et Bene P.S. I don't know the trick of making the web links on this site- sorry.
Revup, The book you seek appears to be out of print. I found a couple of sites that might be helpful to you. There is a search service http://dogpile.com/ that is really helpful. It uses multiple search engines and you will be surprise to find that some get no it while others get many. I just did a search on " The Myth of Separation" and saw several promising sites. http://1faith.org/myth.html This site gives the text of an essay on the subject Thomas Jefferson and The Myth of Separation By Olivia Hanson
http://christiananswers.net/wall/frame0.html Connects to a Site, Wall Builders, Which is a group founded by David Barton
ST, It is a paradox that we experience freedom when we willingly take the yoke of Christ. The line that Janis Joplin sang in "Me and Bobby Magee" - "Freedom's when you have nothing else to lose" is a telling proverb. The more we have to lose the more bound up we are in it. I can't remember who wrote that song but he/she maybe knew more then they think. We have to let it all go before we can have anything. John of the Cross, the Spanish mystic and poet wrote on this saying that we have to give up what we want in order to have it.
"Where the Spirit is, there is liberty." -Deke in Texas - Pax et Bene
An answer to the request about fitting oxen to the yoke:
Younger, smaller animals were placed next to an expereinced animal - often times the younger was so small that the yoke did not even touch the animal the older one did all the work.... as the newer aninla grew into the yoke he began to share the load of the more expereinced animal - when the first animal was no longer able to continue working the second animal was ready to start the process all over again...
great analogy for Christians being yoked to Christ - he does the work - we are being trained to do His ministry.. and to then show others the way
I'm new to contributing here but have gained much from you all over the past months.... DRW in NY
Thanks to DRW in NY for the oxen training method. I had heard it before but was unable to remember the details. Sorry for the double entry. I forgot where the posts showed up, top or bottom. I wonder if anyone has an exegetical comment on these verses:11:16 "But to what will I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to one another,
11:17 'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we wailed, and you did not mourn.' Who is playing the flute and wailing. I am assuming that it is the prophets, John and Jesus. Am I reading that right? Deke in Texas -- Pax et Bene
Can anyone help me remember the words of the Pledge of Allegiance to the Christian Flag? Thanx. Rev Brad in Mo.
The following is a pledge to the Christian flag used by the Rev. D. James Kennedy and many Christians attending his Reclaiming America for Christ conference for Coral Ridge Ministries in Ft. Lauderdale:
I pledge allegiance
To the Christian Flag
And to the Saviour,
For whose Kingdom it stands.
One Saviour, crucified, risen and coming again,
With life and liberty for all who believe.
Rick in Va
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands...they should declare the causes...We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter, or to abolish it, and institute new government
The sacred words of the Amercican People (whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddahist, or secular).
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....
Are these truths self evident? As Christians what are we doing to make sure that they are? Does everyone have the unalienable right or life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Are there limits to this unalienable right??
A good book that could be part of the discussion for this Sunday is Stephan Carter's Book "Civility" Carter talks about how we are no longer civil to one another in our society--everyone is so concerned that their issues be heard, that their needs be met, that their truth be accepted, that the civility and sense of community needed in order for a democracy to florish is breaking down.
Maybe we are all busy carrying our own massive burdens. And we need to know we are not in this thing alone, Maybe Christ's burden is the burden of communtiy--the burden of compassion, and justice, (not only for ourselves but for others--they too have the unalienable right to pursue happiness, and live in liberty), the burden of hospitality, the burden of forgiveness, the burden of realizing that we are not in charge rather God is.
Please forgive my early musings about the Declaration of Independance and our faith.
John in PA.
To DRW in NY and Ron in MS and ST. The balance of "communion with God and commitment to community" resonates deeply in its truth, which I think the writer to the Hebrews also grasps: Hebrews 10:23-25 "Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who has promised is faithful. And let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Also I'm enjoying the various reflections on the Fourth of July celebrations: in Australia we tend to encounter such reflections via Hollywood. I like yours better! I am struck by the contrasts between the historical roles of freedom in my country and in yours. European settlement in Australia was for the purpose of deprivation of liberty- a prison island. Blessings and inspiration Rachel in Western Australia.
To DRW in NY and Ron in MS and ST. The balance of "communion with God and commitment to community" resonates deeply in its truth, which I think the writer to the Hebrews also grasps: Hebrews 10:23-25 "Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who has promised is faithful. And let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Also I'm enjoying the various reflections on the Fourth of July celebrations: in Australia we tend to encounter such reflections via Hollywood. I like yours better! I am struck by the contrasts between the historical roles of freedom in my country and in yours. European settlement in Australia was for the purpose of deprivation of liberty- a prison island. Blessings and inspiration Rachel in Western Australia.
Just a thought for the Americans on here. Many of your founding fathers were not Christians as we think of Christians. Many were Deists and Rationalists and Jefferson himself began work (I'm not sure if he ever completed it) on his own version of the Bible where he cut and pasted portions of the Bible in which he believed. I believe his cut up Bible can still be viewed at Monticello. Your founding fathers were very clear in their separation of church and state because of the problems they saw back in Europe where church and state were so often married. It seems ironic when some of the more conservative preachers these days claim that the USA was founded as a Christian nation and call for a return to that kind of governance when in actual fact the country was founded as an entirely secular nation intending freedom for all religions and expressions of faith. (I know this from an American professor by the way) Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Tom in Ontario,
You'd have to define many.
Your professor, based on numerous studies and scholarly works, is simply giving an opinion which many (more than just a few, much more) could refute rather strongly.
And finally, separation of church and state has been defined by the revisionists and those with an agenda to push, as separation of church from society, to the detriment of society (don't take my word for it, read your daily newspapers).
An excellent reference on the faith of the founding fathers is called The Light and the Glory, by Peter Marshall (see http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=655SAHEJ8L&mscssid=T4E9FCDC5VS12NVU00AKH161GWA7AP7C&pcount=0&srefer=&isbn=0800750543#reviews.
Maybe your professor ought to read it and open his/her mind to the possibilitities of truth, an option that can be enlightening without being intellectually lazy.
Rick in Va
revup- Go to http://www.hotbot.com Type in "the Myth of Separation" Indicate "exact phrase" and click on search. You will come up with several links. One of them may provide what you need.
Rev Brad in Mo. I would suggest the same thing for you. Type in "I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag" As I recall, that is how it begins. Indicate "exact phrase". You will come up with a few links. I would caution you, however, that many people will associate such a pledge with NATIONAL allegiance. I would urge caution if you use it. Crystal
Personal to Rick in VA: please tone down your sharp responses. If you don't agree with something or feel the need to inform, there are civil ways to do this. Thanx. Bob in NY
I am not preaching this week but wish I were. Independence day. . . . What an opportunity to speak of the liberation we find in Christ!
In his book "The God We Never Knew", Marcus Borg speaks of 3 different macro-stories we find in the Hebrew scriptures. All the of these "Macro-stories" have something to say about what Christ has done for us. These three macro-stories are: 1. the exodus 2. the Babylonian exile 3. the priestly story.
Each of these macro-stories may present <I>part</I> of the total picture of what God has done for us in Christ. And different parts of that total picture may appeal to different people according to their personality. The priestly story is the aspect that we have most ofen heard. It speaks of salvation as forgiveness for sin.
(Personally, the priestly story is the one that appeals to me the least. If understood that our predecessors believed that the soul was in the blood . . . and pure blood could cleanse the soul . . .then yes, I can gain <I>something</I> from this. But everything in me is revolted by the "blood-thirsty" image of God that I find in this way of viewing salvation. I grew up <B>solely</B> with this image of God and believed that the Trinity was God the Policeman, God the Judge and God the Executioner. I can <I>obey</I> God out of fear, but I cannot <I>love</I> a god whom I fear. "Salvation" comes from the same root word as "salve," a healing ointment. Salvation has to do with healing the wounds of existence.It took much "healing" in my own life to be able to overcome this image. )
The Macro-story of the Exile speaks to estrangement from God and reconciliation. It speaks to a "returning home" and being accepted by our Father/Mother God.
The Macro-story of the Exodus from Egypt speaks to salvation as liberation from sin and "the powers". "for freedom Christ has set us free. . . therefore, do not submit again to the yoke of slavery" Gal 5:1 What a beautiful image . . . on this day when the US celebrates her freedom, Christians all over the world can celebrate our liberation in Christ.
This Sunday, expand the image of salvation that your congregation carries with them. . . john1335a
Bob in NY,
We apparently define civil differently...
I thought the post was most civil...
Rick in Va (rickinva@desperatepreacher.com)
To Rick in Va:
Again, you speak with little tact. When you say "possibilities of truth, you have a wonderful way of making it sound like you are the one who has the truth and that the person to whom you are responding does not. I guess it is just a part of your character - like Paul (and the rest of us) you don't understand your own actions - you don't do what you want and do the very thing you hate - now there's a sermon illustration.
Tom in To (not the same as Tom in Ontario)
Tom in To (Not in Ontario),
I assert what I know as truth confidently based on my research and with the foreknowledge (or the premise) that truth exists.
Most ivory tower college professors (and other pseudo-intellectuals) I've been acquainted with and especially those who have anti-Christian axes to grind, deny the very existence of truth. And do so confident that their own opinions are truthful.
My experience has been that the expression of an opinion is deemed to be less than tactful or civil in direct proportion to the hearer's agreement with the same.
I always find it amusing that others can express their negative opinions of conservative thought without regard to civility or tactfulness, but let a conservative defend his viewpoint and the verbal charges rain down.
Ahh, some of you really make my day...
Rick in Va
To Les in Louisiana,
Welcome! It is okay to just dive in. We are God's wounded healers, I am afraid. Frank (who runs this) has posted guidelines, and Christian compassion is expected. You'll note we blow it quite often. Still, in our passionate striving to serve God, some good stuff gets "said", a few are comforted, a few discomforted, etc. Say what you have to say, please! We never know when we will be preaching to the next prophet. We never know when that Sunday comes where our inspiration from DPS will be the inspiration that gets that prophet moving. (If you know what i mean!)
This is a Christian site. Last time I checked the definition, it means: All are welcome here. Whether saint or sinner, rich or poor, southerner or Yankee, aging hippy or GenX, veteran or draft dodger, male or female, Jew or Gentile, Latina or gringo.... Pull up a chair, friend. Whatever your story, you are welcome here.
HW in HI
"And the beat goes on!"
Bob in NY: Welcome aboard. Rick's post WAS civil: it's a relative term in DPS-land.
Rick: Check your history books, friend. I was a historian long before I presumed to be a theologian -- and before YOU presume to throw around the ubiquitous "revisionist" label, check to make sure your evangelical zeal has not tempted you to operate as a revisionist in facts historical.
WTS Partners-at-large: Is anyone else working the Romans text as it applies to Independence Day? That both the nation and the church were founded on such high ideals ... and yet, like Paul, find that we seem to corporately "do evil" while what we are called to is good? ("Liberty and Justice for ... Some")
Once again, I would argue with Rick, that separation of church and state gives us the freedom to act on our FAITH in the political arena, without needing to bring our RELIGION along for the ride. And as far as "revisionists with an agenda to push, as separation of church from society, to the detriment of society", those of us who preach and advocate a social gospel would argue that our "agenda" is the transformation of society -- to something closer resembling the Kingdom our Lord came to proclaim and we have been called to co-create as the Body of Christ in the world.
And it's only Monday!!! Blessings, Susan in SanPedro
Thanks Bob and Tom, while I don't wish for Rick to leave this site, I do wish he could be a little less harsh on anyone who differs even slightly from his viewpoint. My professor by the way is a Christian, professor of Systematic Theology (but his initial interest was in Historic Theology) at the Seminary where I am studying for my M.Div. I hope when I am finished that I will know all the truth like Rick does. (Was that mean?) I'm just frustrated with his intolerance. Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Les in Louisiana,
I agree with HW. Just jump right in. The water is warm although there may be some colder spots where the "tolerant and openminded" among us may nip at your heels, especially (really only) when you express a more orthodox or conservative viewpoint.
Tom in Ontario,
Leave this site? I can't... I find this addictive and believe it to be one of the few (if any) healthy addictions out there. You might wish that I leave but then who would be left to check all that 'false teaching' out there (remember, I own the corner on truth... (;-) )
Susan in San Pedro and the rest,
I don't call for a Christian nation, or a theocracy and I don't deny that some might, but neither will I stand for the biil of goods that are being taught in our higher institutes of learning about this country's Christian heritage. If you go back and re-read my post to Tom, taking off the those pasty rose colored (and historically flawed) lens, you'll see I was keying on Tom's use of the word 'many' and then his conclusions drawn from his good 'Christian' professor.
I believe that there were 56 founding fathers who signed the Declaration of Independence. The vast majority, (I believe the count is 50+) were evangelical Christians.
Coral Ridge Ministries has put together a page containing some of the quotes of other founding fathers. Please take a peek at http://www.reclaimamerica.org/AM.HTM and read their words for yourselves. Or pick up the following book (http://www.helwys.com/weaver.html) and read about AMerica's Christian heritage on your own...
Rick in Va
To Tom in Toronto: I wholeheartedly agree with your observation. Your facts are right on target and it is quite ironic considering what people are trying to do in "revising" early American history but certainly in no way like the Neo-Nazi's "revising" the Holocaust history. People are entitled to their own opinions yet we do must open our eyes to see what facts there are and what do they really mean. Thank you for pointing it out and enjoy your own Canadian holidays...
Rachel of West Australia: Really? I had no idea Australia was used as a "prison" by the British. Gee, that's quite a contrast to our own concept of freedom from Great Britain in the American Revolution.
Sorry, guys for going wayyy off the topic. I am preaching on the subject and find your various ideas helpful; many thanks. My ideas will be more in line with how our "American" Episcopal church handled the "crisis" of identity between being loyal to the Church of England and supporting the American Revolution to break away from the British monarchy. Interestingly enough, I discovered that the "Episcopalians" found a solution to institute their new "Episcopal Church" with their own bishops by getting the Church of Scotland to ordain an American to become the first bishop in the "American" Episcopal Church. Sort of like saying to the British, "ha, ha we got our Bishop and our church and our country...none of which you can take away from us!!!" Sounds like an argument between my two young girls,...
Again, I'm sorry that this sounds too "Denominational" for many of you,...I'm just throwing in some thoughts...Maybe I should be using an Episcopal "listserve...e-discussion group" but I don't know of any unless people can refer me to any?? Besides this one is soo good so keep up the good work...
Will in CT
I don't preach on secular holiday themes, especially one so centered in the politics of a particular country. I think people are going to think "patriotism" no matter how theologically sound. That's just my bag.
I am interested in the light burdens. How has Christianity been guilty of placing burdens on people that Jesus would rather see lightened?a How have we in the established church put yokes on folks that are harder than they really need to be? How do our people do likewise?
RevWJA
Rachel in Western Australia: Over in Sydney NSW my daughter is celebrating the 4th of July in Australia with a going home party and sparklers. To others, yes, there is a 4th of July outside of the USA. The age old question is answered. Wherever there are "two or more" Americans "gathered" there will also be a 4th of July party.
Imagine, it used to be a terrible tragedy to be banished to Australia as a lawbreaker, now it costs a small fotune to go there just to visit! (And you can't get in if you are a lawbreaker.)
God must have done some work down there, huh? I am wondering about the church in Australia, and if God was a vital part of the founding, like in the USA? revup
It's an oxymoron, yes, the notion of an "easy yoke" or a "light burden"? It is but one more of the enigmas which Jesus is so fond of using in his teachings. He seems to like to take the normal meanings and turn them inside out and upside down. Perhaps the clue lies in the his description of his persona -- "for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." What does it mean, to find rest for one's soul?
Well, here is a thought. Our souls are troubled most often when we fail to meet internal expectations of ourselves. I don't know from where the expectations come -- probably from different places for each and every one of us. Guilt is, I suppose, another way of saying "failure to meet internal expectations". If Jesus is suggesting what I think he may be suggesting, he is saying something like, "take it a bit easier on yourselves, folk, for *my* expectations of you are perhaps not as great as are your own."
Rest for my soul? What a wonderful idea. I would love to find it. An easy yoke? The stuff of which dreams are made. A light burden? Impossible. Such miracles make the action stories of the Gospels pale by comparison.
Independence Day is a "holy day" on the Episcopal calendar, but it never takes precedence over a Sunday, and is always transferred to another day when it falls on a Sunday. For myself, I hope that those of us who preach in the USA can remember that separation of church and state (no small oxymoron, itself) should mean in its purest form "freedom from religion", not "freedom of religion". We'll be singing some patriotic songs, but I will preaching the from the teachings of Jesus.
Jim
to paraphrase someone who was probably a pseudo-intellectual (isn't it fun to use big words to put down someone we think is a smarty-pants?): those who would marry the church to a nation are dooming her to widowhood.
don't miss the opportunity to offer up the good news of christ's yoke in contrast to the deathly statement that we have a right to the pursuit of happiness. the pursuit of that perceived right, btw, is causing more terrible daily headlines in "christian" america than any misunderstanding of the doctrine of separation of church and state, imo.
I've been distracted from the lectionary for several weeks (Vacation, VBS Sunday, Annual Conference, etc.) but its good to get back on track. The yoke of Christ will always be a special passage. My 1st sermon in my 1st church 7 yrs. ago this Sunday! And it, too, was on July 4th! This passage really is a good one for this day. Although Galatians isn't the 'correct' epistle for the day, Gal. 5:1 makes a great tie-in-turning from the heavy yoke of slavery to the freedom of the yoke of Christ.
Also on yokes, I read once that a carpenter (like Jesus, for example!) would fashion a yoke to custom fit a specific team of animals. Christ's yoke is made to fit us perfectly (or are we made to fit it?)-anyway, it's light in the sense that it doesn't chafe or rub in the wrong way.
Rebecca in MD
One more site for those of you interested in illustrations and quotes from our founding fathers whose love for Christ and His easy yoke were foundational in the creation of this once great nation, a nation that is now setting aside His yoke and finding their own way, led by the enlightened in the pulpits who deny the truth while laying claim to it...
http://user.mc.net/dougp/a/heritage.html
To those of you who have the courage, the will, and the persevering spirit despite the opposition, preach His undiluted Word...
Rick in Va
For a balanced and nuanced assessment of the separation of church and state debate, I recommend Stephen Carter, "The Culture of Disbelief," esp. ch. 5 ("The 'Christian Nation' and Other Horrors") and ch. 6 ("The Separation of Church and State").
Excerpts from ch. 6: "Religion is the first subject of the first amendment....Although one might scarcely know it from the zeal with which the primacy of the other First Amendment freedoms (free press, free speech) is often asserted, those protections come *after* the clauses that were designed to secure religious liberty, which Thomas Jefferson called 'the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights.'"
"What history teaches [is that] for most members of the Founding Generation the idea of separating church from state meant protecting the church from the state--not the state from the church. No one doubted that the churches should and must be harsh moral critics of politics; but the Founders did not believe that the state should be engaged in trying to regulate religion. Thus, for example, when Roger Williams wrote of the 'wall of separation between the garden of the Church and the wilderness of the world,' he was expressing a popular New England Free Church ideal of toleration and religious plurality, the ability of the believer to worship without the interference of the state."
Carter also notes in ch. 5 that the "fundamental message of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment" goes beyond "toleration" to affirm religious *equality*.
Re scripture texts for this Sunday: I'm running out on a limb and attempting to use Rom 13:1-10 in point/counterpoint with Exodus 20:1-3 and Matt 11:28-30. Wish me luck!
Doug in Riverside
verse 17 sure sounds like some of my parishioners! "Our group won't support that group, because they didn't support us last year... or, "we're not going to that activity because they've never done anything for us!" Hmmm. I wonder what God would like them to hear in this passage?
It seems to me that the first few verses of this passage describe those who refuse to hear or accept what Jesus is offering, and verses 25-27 describe those who are open to all Jesus has to offer. They are the ones for whom he continues, "Come to me, all you who are weary...."
Melanie
Is freedom being able to do whatever you want whenever you want? Rather, freedom is being able to do and be as you were intended.
When is a kite free? Not when it is unattached and at the mercy of every prevailing wind. That kind of "freedom" leads to being devoured by a kit-eating tree. Rather, a kite is free when it is attached and anchored to the ground. Then it is free to wheel and soar as was intended.
When is a wheel free? Not when it is unattached and unbound. Then it may roll for a while; but soon it will wobble and fall down and stop dead. Rather, a wheel is free when it is attached to an axle. Then it is free to roll as it was intended.
When is a person free? Not when he or she is unattached and follows the path of least resistance. Rather, when he or she is attached (bound, if you will) to the Creator and Redeemer. Then he or she is free to be in relationship with God and with people, as God intended.
When I am bound, then I am free.
Tom in Winnipeg
Anyone notice that Canada has a lot of "Tom's"? Thank you all for great posts this week.
Thank God for this Desperate Preacher Site. I have been keeping up on the postings for a while now and, though I don't think I've resorted to the the comments when "desperate," I have found the theological stimulation quite helpful.
To Rick in Va: Glad you're on this. I agree with much that you say. You've been helpful to the preaching of the Word in Alaska.
To everyone else (including those who find Rick in VA a little bothersome): Glad you're on this. I agree with much that you say. You've been helpful to the preaching of the Word in Alaska.
There is a book which takes somewhat of the opposite view of Peter Marshall's traditional reading of the faith of our founding fathers. It is _Awash in a Sea of Faith: Christianizing the American People_ by Jon Butler.
His primary thesis is that there was more disunity in early American religion than most scholars (i.e. Sydney Ahlstrom and Perry Miller) acknowledge. He claims that, however comforting a belief in a unified Christian past may be, such a view does not take into account the ambiguities in the development of American religious belief and the doctrinal heterogeneity which characterized it in the past. He is primarily refuting the notion that settlers to America transplanted a homogenous Puritan orthodoxy to the shores of New England. This argument, less carefully, is made for the founding fathers.
Hopefully this is interesting if it is not helpful.
Jim in AK
Tom in Winnipeg,
Thank-you that is beautiful. I have a new "daughter" living with me for a year. She is 17 years old and is an exchange student from New Zealand. She grew up in a family that taught her that to be a good Christian she must behave in a particular, moral way. She lives a life of guilt. She is not able to live her life to her own moral expectations. To me it is very sad. Very sad indeed that she is not free in Christ. She understands intelicultually that God loves her but not in her heart because she thinks she must earn God's love. So this is what I have finally figured out about freedom. Freedom is when one truly, completely accepts God's love, grace and forgiveness. And then out of that grace, freely loves, freely lives a life that is a reflection of such grace. It's kind of like eating really healthy food not because you have to, or you feel guilty if you don't but because you want to. Because you enjoy the taste of the healthy food.
To Rick in Va,
What can I say? You sound so hard done by. I'm not so sure the labels conservative and liberal help anyone very much. Sometimes they seem to have no meaning at all. But, your discussion and appearant frustration around the "truth" makes me think that the words post modernism and modernism might be more helpful. I, myself, am a conservative, feminist post modernist or maybe I'm a liberal, evangelist, post modernist. Ha, ha. My only point is that modernists understand that there is one truth that we are all working towards. (kind of like climbing a mountain and being able to see the top) Post modernist believe that, well, there might be one truth, or maybe not. Any way, we might be on the right mountain but we certainly cannot see the top and there are many paths to the top, if indeed we can get there. And does the top really matter that much anyway, isn't it the journey that is important?!
I know, I am oversimplifying things here and before anyone gives me a hassle about that, I know I am. My only point is that liberal and conversative are understandings that are on a continuim in the same paradigm. Modernism and post-modernism are in different paradigms and so the language and understanding of language is very different between the two. Consquently is can be difficult to communicate with one another and emotions my flare.
Sorry for writing so much.
Much love to you all, Kelly in AB
Tom in Winnipeg,
Excellent post... If that isn't fodder for a great sermon, then there isn't fodder to be found...
(What the heck is fodder anyway?)
Being bound to Christ, being a slave to the Son of God, is where true freedom rings. It is this freedom that drives me, this freedom that burns deep within me, it is this freedom, a freedom that all can experience if they'll but trade the bondage of sin for the bondage of knowing Christ as Lord, Christ as Savior. It is this freedom that motivates me to participate here on the DPS, despite the attempts by the well intended but very misguided to convince me to do otherwise.
"Be not intimidated . . . by any terrors, from publishing with the utmost freedom whatever can be warranted by the laws of your country; nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice." JOHN ADAMS (1735–1826)
Bound by the love of God, I am
Rick in Va
Tom in Winnipeg: I am really impressed by your analogy of the free kite, wheel and person. Great work, very helpful and borderline brilliant!!! That'll preach! revup
Good Day all! I see that God is still moving and that fimilar names are here. It is so refreshing to be back after getting Married and going to Conference.
"Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest."
How often we do not hear, or see the burdens around us. I have been having an interesting experience of late. We have had 3 attempted Suicides, several mental breakdowns, and one murder among people of my congregation, or people close to it, in the past months (another reason not on here lately.) The murder was of someone that was Gay, by a man claiming to be straight - hiding from demons in his soul that he might be gay - because the other man was gay. The Suicide attempts (of which only one ws successful) had to do with people lossing relationships and the hospitilizations due to similar issues. These people had no concept of an easy load - or a laying down their burdens. They were in pain, but could not lay it down.
How could they, their families, the society, everything (except this church) told them that they were unworthy to even be breathing. They never had an image of God, or humanity that might in some way help them to make it through another day. I greived and prayed - only to come to realize that the witness of this church against all the history they had was not much. People come to a Church, a Family of God, hurting and needing help. How often I have found that the pain was inflicted by another gathering of my own family. "Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest."
What rest? If Jesus is not sepaking to the Women, the Gay and Lesbian Community - Jesus could not be speaking to the White male community. At least I hope not, because if so I am not so sure I want to believe in this God. Yet, I see over and over again - people finding this Jesus that welcomed women, sinners and really did not have much to do with the good Church Going folks of his time. He saw the hurt that was being perpetuated in the name of God and dealt with it.
So will I keep dealing with the Suicides and hurt? Yes, because for each person that goes to see their God because of hurt that they feel and the burden that they feel I will see many others lay down their burdens and pick up JOY.
You see there is a revival going on in the Gay and Lesbian Community and it is the first time that I have seen authentic Christianity. For here people know that they have to love each other - because the rest of the world hates them. Here they need each other, because they are the only ones that can share the good news with power and real understanding. You see - if you have not been in my shoes you cannot say - "Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest."
To the person seeking inclusive Languge lectionary material I suggest another lectionary - entitled An Inclusive Languge Lectionary. It was put out by the USA Council of Churches of Christ. Pilgrim Press was one of the printers.
To those that oppose Inclusive Language in teh reading of Scripture let me say this. I have one woman and several men that I have meet that would have never had accepted Christ without this tool. That is what it is - a tool - it is not a goal in and of itself. Why do I use it? Personally it is because it is sinnful to leave part of the body of Christ out of the picture. There are limits and boudaries to all things. I personally draw that at changing the gender of Christ on earth. But, God is more than male. There are many different Scriptural images of God, so why not use those as well? Think about it - what is gained by that, and how many souls can be gained to our family if we are sensitive to peoples needs to be included and valued.
Blessings all for the coming week! Greg in Nashville
Yes, there are evidently a lot of "Toms" in Canada. I wish there were as many "Johns" in Illinois, at least clean ones. (Sorry, that demon in verse 18 made me do it, after too much road travel to Annual Conference.) revup
I am looking at preaching on the "Duties of a Christian to his Country." Looking at different passages that tell us to pray for our leaders, to render onto ceasar etc. I will have more to follow
Rev. Rich Kent, Wash
My dear friends,
This is a rather long entry, so if you feel inclined, please engage in copious use of the scroll key. I hope for those who don't, you, like me, will be as blessed by Her presence.
Her name was Lorina. She was young, only 22 years old, yet somehow, she seemed to be carrying far too much sorrow for someone who had seen so few years. I met her at a bible study held at Gary and Rosa's home. He, one of our pastors, and she, an ordained minister as well, had begun a bible study for young single adults. And in our military community on another continent far from home, there were certainly hundreds of young, single adults. Though I was almost 40 years old and not considered young, my wife had recently returned to the United States and, at least for the moment, I qualified as being "temporarily single." So, Rosa had invited me, probably more out of sympathy and a desire to keep me out of trouble then out of any sense that I might somehow be helpful to this endeavor.
The bible study was not much different than many bible studies that I have attended. Rosa did a good job with the text at hand, the Book of Numbers, and it was interesting and enlightening but, the real reason for being there did not come until after the evening study was complete. At that time we joined together in a circle and we began to pray, each person as they felt led. As these young people prayed, I began to understand why many of them were here. There prayers were filled with cries to God to enter into their lives and take their pain away, emotional and spiritual pain that had cut deep into their beings. Pain of being alone and afraid. Pain of being disconnected from family and community and home.
After we closed the prayer, I noticed that many of the younger folks gravitated toward some of us older folks. They began to talk. They talked of their joys and their pains. They talked of their loneliness of being away from home, and talked of their hopes for the future.
Lorina was sitting next to me and we entered into small talk -- the kind you do when you are not quite sure what to say -- until I asked her about her dreams for her future. Then, ever so softly, she began to cry. Through the tears and the silent sobs, she told me she had no dreams. She spoke of a tragic past that had swept away her dreams. She spoke about the death of her mother and the sexual abuse from her father. She talked about how she often was afraid, and about how she considered suicide --- for certainly, death could not be any worse than the emotional hell in which she lived.
I must admit, I felt almost overwhelmed by the horror and intensity of her story. Yet as she talked, the Holy Spirit began to work and a very strange idea began to grow. I thought, "I know, I will ask her to come to visit a refugee camp." And after I verbalized this idea, she sat and deeply stared into my eyes for a long time. I almost felt as if I could reach right down into her and touch her soul. It was a very real moment, one of those times when you know, even then, that something profound is happening. Slowly she nodded her head yes.
The next Saturday, she was there at our appointed meeting place. I was a bit surprised that she had joined us, I honestly had not expected her to show. In the ride to the camp, another friend and I talked about how we would often see God at work in the camps even among so much suffering. We admitted that though it might seem strange, the light of God would shine here, in ways that it would never shine back in relative comfort and safety of our daily lives.
Lorina listened but didn't respond much.
We entered the camp and went about our various tasks of delivering food, medicine, and school supplies. I was very busy and soon lost track of Lorina. After a while, I saw her again.
There she was -- sitting on a log bench, surrounded by maybe a dozen children. She was touching their faces, caressing their hair, and talking to them, giving herself to each one around her. And as I looked into her face, it was absolutely radiant. I was so shocked that I almost staggered, there in the person of this tortured young girl was the person of Jesus, surrounded by lonely and damaged children, sharing their pain and showing his love.
During the day I saw her several more times, moving through the camp, always surrounded by dozens of children, sometimes with as many as 8 or 9 holding her hands.
We left the camp that day, more reflective than usual. Normally, everyone would be talkative and expressive but this day, there was an uncharacteristic silence. After awhile, I looked at Lorina and asked the question, "Well, what do you think?"
Often times, this question asked to folks experiencing the camp for the first time would elicit a whole host of comments, from discussing the camp conditions, to discussing the theological implications for the church. Answers would almost always be punctuated with an exited mannerism. Yet when she answered, it was three simple words. Three simple words, expressed out of heartfelt conviction and from a deeply scarred soul. Three simple words, on which her hope now hung and her life on this day, had expressed. She quietly said, "God is good...."
God is good ....
"Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
Lorina, hurt, violated, damaged, and lonely had been entered by the Holy Spirit and had moved through that place and had expressed the glory of the Lord. She had not done it on her own, she had been touched by the other and then given herself over to the one is also broken and violated. When Lorina moved through that camp, it was not as a perfect creature, it was not as someone who was finally "right." She still was deeply traumatized, she still was deeply brutalized, and she would still carry the scars of her horrible childhood with her. Indeed, she will probably undergo much counseling and still, it is doubtful if she will ever be truly healed, if being healed means she will not bear the scars of her personal nightmare.
Yet, there, in her own brokeness, in her pain and in her desire to go, that God was able to enter her life and shine to all that came in contact with her that day. She, in seeking to love God's people, had experienced the love of God in return. She, in being willing to touch the lives of those who were in pain, experienced the healing hand of God herself. And she discovered a remarkable truth as she ventured through that camp, as she touched those brutalized and traumatized children, as she sat beside those who had been battered, beaten, and broken, it was not just the children whom she met -- It was Jesus Christ himself.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Wow! Some great discussion, and much of it very helpful. I am working on connecting this text with the Rebecca story. Rebecca chose to go to Isaac and in doing so is able to "ease his burden" that is created by the death of his parents. To me to take upon oneself the yoke of Christ is do those things that Jesus sought to do: release the captive, free the oppressed, give the cup of cold water, etc. To willingly do these things may in some ways be a burden to us, yet that burden will always feel light if done in love and not just out of duty. I am reminded of the song/poem "He ain't heavy, he's my brother". May be this is how we can understand, a LIGHT burden.?
This week my congregation began the process to offer "sponsorship" to a Kosovar Refugee Family. We are told that they may very well be Muslims. One of our "burdens" may very well be that of driving them to the nearest mosque for worship. How is that for an oxymoron or is it just the thing we do?
Deke of the North
Rick in VA
Just stopped by to see how things are going.
You are still doing fine. The lost are still lost.
Keep it up.
Nick in La.
I have come across a great little sermon of Paul Tillich's "The Yoke of Religion" in the Shaking of the Foundations. It is a great peace and suggests that Jesus came to free us from the yoke of religion. Take a look at it and enjoy.
tom in ga
I see a lot of discussion about Jesus' yoke and rest for our souls. I'm interested in the beginning of the passage too. What do you think about the parable of the kids playing wedding and funeral in the marketplace. From my exegesis I understand that Jesus was talking about the ministry of John the Baptist (severe like a funeral) and the ministry of Jesus (easy yoke/light burden like a wedding). I'm thinking about talking about people "playing" at religion like some of the Pharisees in Jesus' time rather than really living the Gospel. The Gospel comes through to me in the latter part of the lesson that we have been talking about. What I usually need for my sermons is some good illustrations for these points. Any help out there? Shalom: Tom in Ontario
This is another thanks to this group. I read thoroughly every contribution every time I preach, but do not often contribute personally. Today I would like to contribute this irrelevant (not irreverent) piece of data: this is not the last fourth of July of this century. We have been hyped to about the millenium, which God probably does not even know about, He having not invented the calendar, so it is not very important; HOWEVER, the fact is that this century ends on New Year's Eve of the year 2000; the new century begins on New Year's Day, 2001. To get perspective on that, think of the first year A.D.: did it start in the year zero? I don't think so. I believe it started with the year one and ended with the year 1,000. Am I right or am I right? Bill in TN
to ST:
"Service is perfect Freedom!"
Bill in TN
Rick in Va and Nick in La
coincidence...I think NOT!
Slick in Pa
Slick in Pa,
What might that coincidence be... enlighten us with your wisdom...
Rick in Va
Can anyone speak with some reasonable biblical authority on the wisdom/Jesus typology discussed in all the responsible studies of this text. We just didn't get Sophia for some {was it sexist} reason when we zoomed past this in school. thanks yall rsf in New Paltz NY
I am going to lay down my burden ....
The yoke that is heavy is the yoke of the Torah as interpreted by the Pharisees and Scribes. They are the wise ones. They uphold religion. They uphold the way to eternal bliss. If only I was a better church goer, a pray-er, pious in my dealings with God and man, then God would ..... if only I obeyed the commandments, was a good person, did all the prescribed things, then God would ..... If only I could rid myself of my own personal disorders and could befriend everyone, then God would .... if only I was more disciplined, more obedient, then God would ....
No, it is Jesus who calls us home, who delights in us, who cares not for our attempts at getting 'all dressed up for him' - he comes to us, to save us, we are free in him, his burden is light. Only the babes, the fishermen, publicans, and harlots know this is true.
Why does religion have to be so hard, so difficult, so demanding, when all it takes is the invitation to sit on our Lord's lap, being free to call him ABBA, and to enjoy him forever? Why do most of us have such a hard image of a terrible God who judges, and punishes, when our Lord simply invites us to be ourselves?
tom in ga
How Oxen are fitted for a yoke.
I've not read the whole kit and kabboddle this week so if you already found your answer I'm glad. If not I think I read it long ago in "Farmer Boy" by Laura Ingalls Wilder I've not checked this out to be sure but a possibility. Or check the library, I'm sure you can find a how to guide.
Bruce in WI
If you want accurate historical information about religion and the founding of the United States, a good resource is "Religion and the Founding of the American Republic" - an online version of a Library of Congress Exhibition. Go to http//lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/. I'm enjoying the discussion! SLC in OKC
Tom in Ga - haven't had a chance yet to read through all the contributions, but i always think of responsibility when i think of freedom. the more freedom we have the greater the responsibility.
My denomination is a very "free" one but that means that we must study the Bible, we must think, because no one is going to do it for us or spoon feed us. in our freedom we have greater responsibility.
this week we are doing VBS, and one boy in particular is a trouble maker. (he was sick today - and we all thought we were in paradise) anyway, i know his home situation, and the male figure in his family, and really his grandmother also, are always on to him in a way that i don't think he knows how to handle himself when he gets the freedom he is offered at church. he has never developed "personal resonsibility."
Christ's yoke isn't without responsibility or duties, but Christ promises to be there with us, and to free us from the fear of living without him.
another thing to remember - Christianity isn't equal to the U.S., but our people will want to thank God for their freedoms.
thanks everyone, rachel
Hi all.
A thought about the early verses in this pericope.
I have had quite a bit of experience with this lately in "my" congregation. If I visit shut in's, people complain that I'm not bringing in new members. If I visit people who have worshipped with us for the first time, they complain that I'm not visiting the shut in's.
I've been hanging onto these words from Matthew's gospel a lot lately, trying not to get cynical. A challenge sometimes!
Will send more later, I'm sure!
Rick in Canada, eh?
A note of thanks.
Thank you, once again, Nail-Bender, for "story-ing" this gospel reading to life. What a gift you have, not only being able to tell stories so movingly, but the ability to see these "God moments" happening around you.
We are enriched by the sharing of your gifts.
Rick in Canada, eh?
Yeah! Welcome back NailBender AND Greg in Nashville (M A R R I E D!!! Congratulations!): it's "old home" week a the DPS.
How about the responsibility that comes with freedom: both the freedom from oppression our foreparents died for and the freedom from sin our Saviour's death represents. How have we responded to those gifts: as citizens and as Christians. Isn't it too often true that, like Paul, we do evil as a nation and as a church when we mean to do good?
I should be further along with this at this point in the week, but that's where I'm mulling at the moment. Thanks, as always, for this site: it's a real blessing! Susan in SanPedro
Hi all.
Thanks for your comments, Susan. I guess I would take them one step further. In Christ, we have the freedom, and therefore the responsibility, even to die.
In this part of the world, that is one thing we don't see a whole lot. And when we do, it's usually a mis-translation of the military's willingness to go into battle and kill.
I suggest that your (very correct) question about why we do evil when we mean to do good is one result of our unwillingness to face the fact that it is in dying that we live. Dying to self, to ambition, to greed, to fear, to lust, to will-to-power, to advertisments...; these do not appear very attractive in our world and society. We prefer power and "security" to Christ's gentle yoke in which we submit to death, and therein discover that death is not the final word.
Rick in Canada, eh?
A possible connection with the Rebecca story: Rebecca means tethered or bound. Like the kite, the wheel, and the person bound to Christ, Rebecca was bound to Abrahams God and her destiny lay in God's hands. To be yoked or bound is to be in relationship with the Divine and not alone but able to trust and count on God to know us intimately and all our needs. Thats lightening the burden! Nina in the North
Rick in VA, B.C. Forbes (Steve's grandpa) said something to the effect of: Sometimes the thoughts and words of others stimulate, irritate, amuse, and abuse my mind. I don't always agree with what you say, and occasionally I find myself cringing a little bit at the way you say things. My brother, I am most indebted to you for doing that. Please don't stop. I err usually to the side of being too polite, too reluctant to offend, too politically correct while I am avowing my hatred of political correctness. My sense is that you are not troubled much by those concerns. I need the reminders you provide that while Jesus didn't condemn the the woman for her sins, he did judge her to be sinful and told her to knock it off. Is there a difference between saying "go and sin no more" and saying "knock it off; what you are doing is wrong"? Is the difference worth distracting ourselves from the critical issue at hand: how to preach the gospel a little more convincingly?
Hang in there, Rick!
RevBill
I have looked at, but have not read through, Thomas Jefferson's life of Jesus, which has been published somewhere. Among other things, Jefferson removed all the miracles which he did not believe in, being a rational 18th thinker. AJM in PA
To Slick, Nick, and Rick in Pa, La, and Va - Cute - Not Another Ick in PA
Not another ick in Pa and Slick in Pa,
I'm not sure that I would describe Slick's oily "coincidence - NOT" comments cute, but maybe I'm being a bit thin-skinned.
I have to assume that Slick is accusing Nick and me of being one and the same person. I can only state categorically that this is not the case.
RevBill,
I'm hanging in there, sometimes by a thread, most times with a firm grip on God the Father's Truth, as revealed in the person of Jesus Christ by the power of His Holy Spirit and my willingness to yield to it.
Now let's get back to discussing God's Word and how to express the same to a dying world in need of hearing it.
Rick in Va (the one and only, which ought to make many of you breathe sighs of relief)
For those of you using "The Myth of Separation" by David Barton, please check the following site (I'd don't know how to create links) to verify which quotes of the founding fathers you may use with confidence in their authenticity: http://thomasash.hypernet.net/bnet/items/00026.html. You may find the site's purpose irritating, but it does refer to a Barton press release concerning eight quotes of founding fathers in his book which could not be authenticated, i.e. no one has been able to trace them to an original source. AJM in PA
Rick - Lighten Up! I wasn't accusing you of anything. I thought there was a minor, though amusing coincidence in the collection of -ick's from -a's. Sometimes life is just fun! - Not Ick in Pa
AJM in PA,
I couldn't connect to your link (their server may be down or the URL is mis-spelled). However I did find a site that is similar in nature to yours (I believe) in that it questions many quotes presumable spread by David Barton concerning what the Founding Father's had to say. The site can be visited at http://www.atheists.org/courthouse/charlotte.html#inaccurate.
Please take note of who runs the site and what particular agenda they may be attempting to foist on the public.
I would rather be a believer and be found wrong than an atheist and be found wrong at any time.
Ick in Pa,
I took no offense at your words. I questioned Slick's motivation.
Rick in Va
I just wanted to share a paraphrase of Mt. 11:25-30 from "The Message," a modern NT version by Eugene Peterson. "Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me--watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly." These words smack of real "independence," when we are totally dependent on our relationship with Jesus and on His guidance through the Holy Spirit. The lack of control often makes me "batty." But I know it's the only real way to live a "whole" and "holy" life. Dorothy B. in Baltimore
Rick in Va
My "motivation" as (Not ick from Pa) currectly surmised, was the "ick's in -a's" theme DPS seems to have going nothing more...nothing diabolical and, I guess, nothing that funny (see, if ya have to explain it...)
(not really) Slick in (not really) Pa
Ok...that's neither my name nor my location...it went along with the THEME!!! Get it? Sorry, last attempt at humor...at least for today :^)
Wow, I just found out about this forum and this is great. I now have tons of material for Sunday. I'll try to contribute also. Someone way back mentioned Borg's book "The God We Never Knew". My bishop gave a copy to everyone and wants us to read it and have a big discussion about it. What do I think? I think that Borg needs to "get saved" and he will know God in the personal way he is seeking. Isn't that what freedom is all about? Knowing Christ! When Jesus sets you free you are free indeed.
Chicago Rev
Bill in TN is right about the millenium not really beginning until 2001.
To the one wondering about the children:
Douglas Hare's commentary says:
"The parable of the children, according to interpreters familiar with Near Estern customs, reflects gender roles. The round dance that occurred at weddings, accompanied by flutes, was performed by men, while mourning, often done by professionals, was women's work. Thus the parable may represent the girls as reproaching the boys for being unwilling to play wedding, while the boys counter that the girls refuse to play funeral. Another suggestion is that the children who criticize their friends for not cooperating are the lazy ones: they want to play the easy roles and expect the other to engage in the more strenuous dancing and loud wailing. A third possibility is that some or all of the children are being bossy, claiming the right to "call the shots."
"In its present context the parable is open to several different interpretations, depending on whether or not it is regarded as an allegory concerning John and Jesus. If it is allegorical, there are two main possibilities. The children who propose "Let's play marriage!" can represent Jesus, who joyfully annouces the arrival of the kingdom, while those who say "Let's play funeral! stand for John and his stern warning of coming judgment. On the other hand, the children who do the speaking can be seen as "this generagion," who want the dour John to dance and Jesus the preacher of joy to mourn. If the parable is not allegorized, "this generation" is perhaps being compared to neither group of children (those speaking or those being addressed) but to the interaction: children who cannot respond positively to any suggestion end up playing nothing. Jesus' contemporaries prefer to sit on the sidelines uninvolved rather than take seriously either of God's end-time messengers.
"The point of the saying is clear: this generation is able to "write off" John because of this abstention from normal social intercourse and Jesus for exactly the opposite reason, because of his banqueting with sinners. In this way, both are dismissed as irrelevant.
Tigger in ND
To the one asking about Sophia and Jesus:
Douglas Hare, again, basically says "the wisdom Jesus refers to is not the mythical Sophia but to God's wisdom which is manifested (and vindicated) in the deeds of the Christ. Also possible is the view that wisdom is here used in a more general, secular sense: "wisdom is demonstrated by its fruits." No matter how "wise and understnading" (vs 25) Jesus' opponents claim to be, their behavior exhibits their lack of wisdom.
Tigger in ND
Chicago Rev: Welcome to the site. Rick in VA and I are always trying to get someone on this site "saved." We don't seem to have much success, though! Either they are or don't believe in it and can't be convinced it really happens. We keep trying, huh Rick? Although we are all over the theological spectrum, we try to love each other anyway. (Jesus did.) revup
Dale in Norcatur, KS,
To call Gandhi a heathen is about the same as calling Jesus a heathen. There have probably been few more Christ-like persons in this century (including Mother Theresa) than Gandhi. And Christ was his teacher. He may have remained Hindu in his culture and practice (never publicly "accepting the lordship of Jesus" in a fundamentalist way)...but he lived as Christ, revered Christ, looked up to Christ, and was informed as much by Christ as by his own Hindu background. He has nothing but good to say about Christ, and and his way of satyagrayha was based largely on his understanding of Jesus and his spiritual path.
Please...when you are going to call names, be informed about whom you are labeling. Or better yet, avoid labels altogether.
Tom In Ontario-- Jefferson did indeed cut up his Bible, as he sought to piece together the life of the historical Jesus two centuries before the current "Third Quest"!!--using hsi reason and a pair of scissors as his only tools. And though many reject Deism as a valid theological perspective (as I due in its pure form), the anti-intellectual and anti-critical streams in the church (especially those Dale in Norcatur, KS,
To call Gandhi a heathen is about the same as calling Jesus a heathen. There have probably been few more Christ-like persons in this century (including Mother Theresa) than Gandhi. And Christ was his teacher. He may have remained Hindu in his culture and practice (never publicly "accepting the lordship of Jesus" in a fundamentalist way)...but he lived as Christ, revered Christ, looked up to Christ, and was informed as much by Christ as by his own Hindu background. He has nothing but good to say about Christ, and and his way of satyagrayha was based largely on his understanding of Jesus and his spiritual path.
Please...when you are going to call names, be informed about whom you are labeling. Or better yet, avoid labels altogether.
Tom In Ontario-- Jefferson did indeed cut up his Bible, as he sought to piece together the life of the historical Jesus two centuries before the current "Third Quest"!!--using hsi reason and a pair of scissors as his only tools. And though many reject Deism as a valid theological perspective (as I due in its pure form), the anti-intellectual and anti-critical streams (especialy those which fairly reek of always-fashionable sickly-sweet and overly-sentimental relgiosity) in the church might benefit from a little dose of balancing Deism from time to time. Just a thought.
john1335a--thanks for reminding me of Borg's book. It is a good one, and I'll pull it out for another look before Sunday...if that's not being too intellectual, that is. I am taking the tack of how Jesus helps us see reality in a new way ("like a child"--there's a Moody Blues song abut that, now that I think of it..."With the Eyes of a Child", and as I remember, the lyrics are appropriate). Am also using V. Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning," as suggested in the "Aha!!" resource from Canada--theme = when you have a deep purpose to your life, nothing can really shake you. All your burdens are lighter and easier when there is an overriding, undegirding depth and meaning to your existence. Not easy to preach, but certainly worthwhile, I think.
HW in HI -- thanks for your comments and good reminder!
Rick in VA -- yes, it is a healthy addiction! Don't leave (I know you won't)! Though we often disagree, I enjoy your feistiness, and I thought your post was civil.
Rev WJA -- for me, the yoke is easy becauase Jesus shoulders it first, and then helps me pull my share. Indeed, he pulls most of the weight for me most of the time!
--Barry in OH
P.S. to ALL -- a prayer I'm using this Sunday as a "UNISON COLLECT FOR INDEPENDENCE DAY" [from Prayers for All Occasions, by Roy Pearson]
God of all lands and all peoples, we pray for our own nation. We celebrate in your presence its abundant achievements in freedom and justice for all, and we confess before you its many and grievous departures from matching deed with declaration. Confirm, we pray, the good bravely done; shame us with the evil still performed. So hold in our vision the bright glow of your hope for this beloved realm that we see more clearly the work yet to be done, and do it, to the end that your kingdom may come and your will be done on the earth. Through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
Sorry all for the cut & paste error in my post, Don't know what happened. Duh.
Barry in OH
Jesus words in verse 28 sound similar to the words of the Statue of Liberty, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuge of your teeming shore. Send these the homeless, tempest tossed, to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." The difference...freedom is not found in a place, but in a Person, the Person of Jesus Christ, who is the true light/lamp. This is my first post, but I learn alot each week from all of you. You are a blessing for this new preacher! Thanks. Teri in TX
Tom in Winnipeg and Teri in TX: Thank you both for your wonderful words. The analogy of freedom to a kite or wheel as compared to personal freedom was brilliant, and is on the front cover of my Sunday bulletin. We will read it in unison during the sermon. Too bad I do not have a "real" name as a source. Teri, the comparison of verse 28 to the words on the statue of Liberty were also brilliant, and will really preach on this 4th of July. Thank you both for these additions, you are great conduits for the Holy Spirit. As your first post Teri, I look forward to more. Hop right in! revup
Does anybody have a good patriotic closing story for the week? revup
revup,
I offered up this story a few months ago. Since you asked for a patriotic story, I offer it up once again. Maybe not what you were looking for, though I do think its appropriate for a July 4th sabbath ... reminds us of who we are called to worship.
In the Search of Praise
Heroes. They welcomed us as conquering heroes. They danced around us, each wanting to extend a hand or give us a slap on the back. The men beckoned to us, wanting us to join them in their game of bowls, and the women served us their strong Bosnian coffee, served us with warm smiles and affirming hugs. They had always seemed glad to see us, maybe because we would bring a little extra food or some item of clothing which they would otherwise have gone without, these broken and battered people, these refugees. Or perhaps it was just because our coming broke up the monotonous sameness of their daily existence. Either way, this time the greeting was different. Much different. Heroes.
Except we certainly didn't choose this accolade. In fact, one might say that not only didn't we welcome the praise, but that we were deeply troubled by it … to the core troubled … laying at wake at night in the blackness of the darkened room troubled, struggling with the darkness of our soul troubled. But our discomfort really didn't matter, for we were still welcomed as heroes, welcomed by these people who had lost everything, their homes, their neighborhoods, their children and spouses. Welcomed by people who desperately needed some news of hope.
Our new found fame had been generated by an event that happened a few days before on February 28th. In a violation of the NATO no-fly order, Serbian jets had been launched and had attacked Bosnian targets in Herzegovina. American jets had intercepted the Serbs and destroyed four of them. Four jets down. Four lives destroyed. And to these battered people who could go nowhere else … celebration.
It was no wonder that we were hailed as heroes. After all, we were American military members. After all, the jets had come from our air base, our home. After all, the folks who worked for me had launched those jets. It's no wonder, no wonder at all. Heroes, part of the process of hope, part of their rescue, rescue for these people who knew so much pain.
In a village across the spans of time, in a village separated by a few hundred miles, another young man was also welcomed. They gathered before him and shouted into the heavens. "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!!!" Then, a few hours later, this young man would stand on a hill and cry, cry because he had come to bring peace, cry because they refused to know him. He would cry because they met him with palms waved to a conquering hero. And in my bed, sleep would not come, for I knew that without a doubt, I too would have raised those palms and would have joined the shouting, "Hosanna to the Son of David -- the son who comes to destroy my enemy." I too, would reject the Christ. I too, have killed the son of God.
Heroes.
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Friends on the DPS Community, Please forgive me for this short submission. A few weeks ago I offered you the story of Cynthia. Please see my request in the Prayer Request area of this site. Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Just for an anecdote, I once had a parishioner who understood Jesus words (My yoke is easy and my burden is light) to be another statement entirely... She understood "light" to mean shining, revealing, visible light... That Jesus holds up for us a true light that allows us to find our way in the darkness... Sounds sort of like the statue of liberty, doesn't it? VicarJane from Lenox, MA
Dorothy B. Thanks for the Peterson paraphrase. He really has a nice way of putting things. We used some of his stuff for a study of Christ's Passion during Lent. revup. Why do you think we are not already saved? I myself was saved by Jesus of Nazareth when he was crucified and then rose again nearly 2000 years ago. RevBill Jesus did not condemn the sinful woman. He did tell her to go and sin no more. This weeks lesson had people accusing him of eating and drinkin with sinners though. He loved them enough to eat with them before they repented. There are no prerequisites for God's love and grace. The "religious" of that time (and perhaps this time too) didn't approve of who he hung out with. They wanted them to change first, to be someone else than who they really were before they were acceptable. Jesus wanted to make something else out of them. Tom in Ontario (who thinks he knows at least some of the truth)
William Barclay tells a wonderful story about the "yoke" as it was fitted to the oxen in his commentary of Matthew...it must be well-fitted, etc.
grace&peace revwilly in OK
Well, I add my voice to the fray. If one were to read Jefferson's own writings, one could see not only by deduction, but by his own proclamation that Jefferson was a diest as were a few of his colleagues.
Though I like the notion of this Independence day being linked with the freedom the Christ brings. I don't tie them together as America, Christianity and Apple Pie. Rather, I see the words of Jesus in juxtaposition of the constitution and our American culture. The words of Jesus were not for Americans. They were not patriotic. They did not support governments or religions.
Rather, Jesus offered words of freedom from the legalism of the religious leaders and the Torah. Those who would condemn him for breaking the Sabbath to heal and to eat, but then rebuked John the Baptist for not rejoicing in the new day, were those to whom Jesus spoke the words, "Woe to you Pharisees, you strain gnats and swallow camels. You was the outside of your cups and bowls, but your are filled with extortion and rapacity." Lest we preachers side too quickly with Jesus against "those Pharisees" of our day, we may need to recognize our own positions of power, our own enforcement with the legalisms of our denominations and our own struggle with the "law of sin" [see Romans this week].
Jesus does in deed offer us freedom, not just in America, and not just freedom to worship, but freedom to take up a yoke that is easy. This same word is translated as "kindness". We are not called to be the bearers of legal platitudes, but to be those who with Christ reaches out to the oppressed, the least of these.
In a day when our churches is divide over moralisms and codifications, may we preach (in America) this July 4th, a word of Christ's love for all. Moreover, may we practice acts of kindness toward all persons including those on the other side of the issue. Remember, that in the midst of the "issue" innocent often catch the shrapnel of our hatred and debate.
Happy Independence in Christ Day.
Kelly in Tacoma
Tom in Ontario: What I was saying is that I, among others, do not believe in universal salvation. We believe one needs to believe, to receive. Jesus did die 2000 years ago, but like an ice cream Sundae at DQ on a hot day, you need to believe it is there and ask for it, not just think we have all received it automatically. revup
Greg in Nashville,
Knew you were there!
Greg, my daughter is starting college in Sewanee, knowing not a soul. I would so like to tell her how to find you, if you want to be found. She, like me, is straight but not narrow. (Yes, i have a map, but Nashville looks close to me anyway!)
HW in HI
Greg- Sorry, that's Parsons-Wright@Prodigy.net
To Will and revup, Too 'desperate'about tomorrow's preaching to go into details about Australian church history but it's a good story and I'd love to tell it one day. I feel strongly that my focus tomorrow should be on Christ's 'easy yoke.' However, I'm a 25 year old woman preaching to an older congregation who have known me for 20+ years and it seems to me that the Elderly have something of an upper hand when it comes to understanding the paradoxes of the kingdom of God. I'm still working on it! Blessings, Rachel in Western Australia
To Will and revup, Too 'desperate'about tomorrow's preaching to go into details about Australian church history but it's a good story and I'd love to tell it one day. I feel strongly that my focus tomorrow should be on Christ's 'easy yoke.' However, I'm a 25 year old woman preaching to an older congregation who have known me for 20+ years and it seems to me that the Elderly have something of an upper hand when it comes to understanding the paradoxes of the kingdom of God. I'm still working on it! Blessings, Rachel in Western Australia
I just discovered DPS this week...thanks to my mentor. As a first year seminary student and having my first church appointment (associate pastor), I can see that DPS will be an invaluable tool. This Sunday the fourth will only be my third time preaching and I was struggling with how to tie the Matthew text and the 4th. Much thanks to all of your contributions, I now have a preachable sermon. God Bless!
timothy in ga.
Timothy in GA and others,
I too am a seminary student, a Senior (yeah) and have been preaching for several years. This site and more importantly, the people who provide the ideas, are tremendous. It certainly does not take the place of the exegesis or good old fashioned research or even using the original languages, but the dialogue certainly helps to spark good ideas. Hopefully we can be a little bit truer to Christ in the end. Timothy, welcome, and to the others, an on-going thank you!
Clint in Pittsburgh
Greetings. This my first time to ever post anything. But I'll venture a few comments. Noticed most comments centered on the ideas of freedom (connected loosely or closely to the 4th) and the yoke. Actually a last week's Roman's passage on being slaves of God would have fitted nicely with this theme, and you might find parallel material there.
We might find some interesting avenues into the text through the idea of "symbols" of freedom. Maybe the "yoke of freedom." We certainly say "free as a kite" (Tom in Winnepeg's comments were some of the more helpful comments to me). Under that theme, the yoke emerges a powerful image or symbol, compared and contrasted to our Lady Liberty and the flag.
There's a story about John Wilkes Booth that I used last year (from Dynamic Preaching I think. After he shot Lincoln, he jumped on stage, but in the process tripped and broke his ankle (I think it was). Well, do you know what he tripped on (or got tangled in). The American flag. You can then tie it in by some such statement as, "we're always tripping on our own flag, when we, e.g. deny others freedom, or fail to reach out in love, etc.
Another aspect of the yoke that I haven't seen anybody bring up. But thought it worth comtemplating is the idea of being bound to and connected with Christ. "Baptism" as that which yokes us to Christ could come into to play. Certainly exegetically the yoke is contrasted to the Scribal and Pharisaic interpretation of the Torah, which is portrayed elsewhere as burdensome and heavy. The images of the older and experienced ox yoked to the younger one is apt, as Jesus refers in his prayers to "babes," only he himself replaces the torah (at least as understood by Saducees and Pharisees).
But that brings me to something I've missed in the discussions, and would like to throw out, the incredibly high Christology of this passage. It is discussed in the prayer's description of the Father and Son. The Son's role in revealing the Father is utterly striking and "exclusive." That's the "me" behind the phrase "Come to me."
A way of illustrating that would be helpful. That's for listening.
TA in TX
Dear Nail-Bender: Thank you for your touching story. On any date, it would be effective; with the military and reguee camp context, it is very contemporary and works will for July 4th. With a bit of editing for length, I plan to use it tomorrow. Thanks! Moose
"Some of the worst deeds in history have been done by folks who were absolutely sure they were aboslutely right." ---author unknown (at leasat by me)
Bill in TN
Hi everyone from Edinburgh, where just this week the Scots celebrated independence. As an American minister far from her native soil, I have enjoyed being connected to y'all over the last few months... thank you for making my yoke easier!
I've chosen to preach mainly on the Romans passage, but wanted to add the name of Augustine as we think about what it means to be free/rest in Christ. His "Confessions" journal the struggle, the restlessness of his heart until it rested in God, etc. Those of you who know his work should find many connections... If you haven't read it, and are looking for some beautiful reading this summer, may I commend "Confessions" to your list of devotional reading?
Light a sparkler for me! Dingwoman
Hi All: I know it's late but does anyone know of a www for fresh sermon illustrations. So many are old and out dated. Any ideas?
Love, Paula B in sunny FL.
Dale in KA,, I Hear a great deal of anger in what you say. Remember these people left England because they were not allowed to impose their yoke of purtin law on other this what Jesus is talking about here. Remember these are the same people who kicked the Baptist out to RI and burned the witches..Some children. ron in ms
If I remember my history, the calendar arrangement we have in 1999 is not the same arrangement as is Jesus' time. In fact is it not at least the second revision since that time? Which millenium is coming to a close, or is it at all? Tom on the "Prayer"ie.
The pledge of allegiance to the Christian flag was not a pledge to the flag, but rather the cross. We said it everyday in school. I never forgot it. "I pledge allegiance to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ, and to to faith for which it stands - one Savior, eternal with justice and grace for all. So help me God. pastorbbb in PA
Thanks to Tom in Winnepeg for the Kite and wheel illustrations, they got comments from my congregations "That I could really understand!"
And also the explanations of the yoke training/usage. Really hit on the theme of being yoked WITH Christ as being the real freedom.
Sara in GR MI
For a song that goes with Matthew 11:28-30, write to me at joseph.hesh@verizon.net Joe Hesh