Date: 3/31/2004
Time: 2:35:07 PM
What startled me most: "Then they remembered his words"... Remembering implies forgetting. I recently read some gerneral movie review that mentioned that we had an awful lot of recent movies about forgetfulness (Finding Nemo, Spotless mind and others), it's almost en vogue to be forgetful! But what a message is forgotten by Jesus' closest followers, his disciples and the women! The message of resurrection and life is drowned by fear, death and grief and makes us "forget" the good news. Is the message too good to be true? Today I see many church folks who seem to "forget" about the great message of life and forgiveness; who dwell on moralism, criticism, exclusiveness, and busyness. How are we reminded, how do we remember? How can a preacher get the message of Easter across in a genuine way?
germanpastor in San Jose
Date: 4/1/2004
Time: 10:34:52 AM
I think that I will focus on Peter. He seemed hesistant at first but gained enthusiasm and ran to see for himself. Stooping and looking means he had to search and discern what I think his heart was telling him. I would like congregants to come away feeling as amazed as Peter was, when they get home. Peter became an Easter person, and I want to be among an Easter people. The challenge is to remember to be dazzled by the mystery and awe that is God.
Jo in Canada
Date: 4/1/2004
Time: 9:34:39 PM
It just ocurred to me that, perhaps, the 'need' is tied to the concept of "shalom." If you have "need" at the end of the day, you don't have "shalom." And as I recall from seminary days long ago, if you answered "no" to the quiry of "shalom" the person who inquired was obligated to help you meet your need. (It's been a while, so have to dig that out.)
Ocassional Lurker
Date: 4/2/2004
Time: 8:34:10 PM
I am haunted by "Why do you look for the living among the dead?" I can't help but think that on Easter all our churches will be brimming with people who give us one more chance to show them why church in important in their lives. We call them CEOs, Christmas and Easter Onlys. They come looking for the living but only seem to find the dead, which keeps them away until Christmas. Why don't they hear the good news we preach?
Rob in Menlo Park
Date: 4/4/2004
Time: 4:44:11 PM
Do we preach the Good News, or do we approach people with our list of needs that they could fill? Teaching, serving on the board, youth group leading, volunteer maintenance, committees galore, it's really what being in the church has become, isn't it? Sunday morning is just a small part of it, and we seem to have decided years ago that if you come and sit on Sunday morning, you need to be involved at least 2 other activities so we can accomplish all the things we want to do for ourselves (first) and the world (second or third).
I don't have the solution, but I know that it is a real problem here. C & E Church members don't want to get sucked into things beyond the being fed part. Nobody would dare approach them on Christmas Eve or Easter Morning to try to fill some empty slots, so those are safe as well as respectable times to attend. Everyone's glad to see them, but they have made no commitment to anything except receiving a reminder that they are loved for who they are, not for what they can do for the Church.
Date: 4/4/2004
Time: 10:12:32 PM
I am interested by the way that Peter has obviously had a big experience - whether he understands it or not, Jesus' body has gone! A big experience, and he goes home. Is this what we do? Do we just go home? Or do we find other people to share the news with?
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 5:14:28 AM
"He is not here, but has risen." The Resurrection happens without any eyewitnesses. Stories of Jesus' re-appearance to his disciples soon follow, but early on that first Easter morning there is only an empty tomb and angelic messengers to report the news. This makes the Resurrection an incredible event -- not just in the popular sense of spectacular or awesome, but also in the sense of not credible or not to be believed. Though firmly asserting that Jesus is risen, Luke shows that the Resurrection is not fully comprehendible. The women at the tomb are perplexed and even frightened.
The women try to describe to the apostles what they have experienced. Their report is received as an "idle tale" and not believed. The Greek word translated here as "idle" does not mean chit-chat, but rather "nonsense." Why nonsense? Is it because we can only make sense of new facts by fitting them into old frames of reference? Some things may require new frames. The empty tomb is a new creation and cannot be compared to other experiences.
Neither is the empty tomb just one more fact about Jesus. The Easter message is not just about a change in Jesus, but also about a change in us. To live as an Easter people is to live with mystery and to allowe the mystery to transform us.
In the alternate gospel passage for today, John 20.1-8, there are three witnesses to the empty tomb -- Mary Magdalene, Peter, and "the one whom Jesus loved." Although the story begins with Mary offering a plausible explanation for what has happened, it ends in mystery. The witnesses cannot explain the empty tomb or the folded burial cloth; they can only experience it and believe in its power.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 5:17:01 AM
"He is not here, but has risen." The Resurrection happens without any eyewitnesses. Stories of Jesus' re-appearance to his disciples soon follow, but early on that first Easter morning there is only an empty tomb and angelic messengers to report the news. This makes the Resurrection an incredible event -- not just in the popular sense of spectacular or awesome, but also in the sense of not credible or not to be believed. Though firmly asserting that Jesus is risen, Luke shows that the Resurrection is not fully comprehendible. The women at the tomb are perplexed and even frightened.
The women try to describe to the apostles what they have experienced. Their report is received as an "idle tale" and not believed. The Greek word translated here as "idle" does not mean chit-chat, but rather "nonsense." Why nonsense? Is it because we can only make sense of new facts by fitting them into old frames of reference? Some things may require new frames. The empty tomb is a new creation and cannot be compared to other experiences.
Neither is the empty tomb just one more fact about Jesus. The Easter message is not just about a change in Jesus, but also about a change in us. To live as an Easter people is to live with mystery and to allowe the mystery to transform us.
In the alternate gospel passage for today, John 20.1-8, there are three witnesses to the empty tomb -- Mary Magdalene, Peter, and "the one whom Jesus loved." Although the story begins with Mary offering a plausible explanation for what has happened, it ends in mystery. The witnesses cannot explain the empty tomb or the folded burial cloth; they can only experience it and believe in its power.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 6:09:35 AM
Maybe because I had a real stressful administrative council meeting yesterday, where all the negatives and toxic personalities just seemed to rule, but I'm finding myself identifying with Mary, Joanna, and Mary (interestingly, the most toxic in our church is named Joanne)...
Doesn't it sometimes feel like you preach and preach and preach. And teach and teach and teach. And encourage and encourage and encourage. And explain and explain and explain...
Only to have the very people who claim to believe in the Good News find it an idle tale?
Sally in GA
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 6:40:26 AM
When Jesus came into the world as a human baby, angels were the ones who announced it. When Jesus returned to life, ditto. His birth was like none ever known before. His resurrection, ditto. There is a completion here. We can't know the story on our own, it must be divinely inspired. Duly inspired, we go and tell so others may know to open themselves to the divine inspiration and then go and tell someone else.
I think my topic will be something along the lines of "Divinely Inspired to Believe the Unbelievable". I may make reference to an old Andy Griffith show where Opie has a new friend, Mr. McBeevy, who is a linesman or a tree-topper or something that requires him to climb poles. He wears a silver hardhat, has extra "hands" to help him climb, and he jingles when we walks. (He does a trick with his cigarette to make it look like he can make smoke come out of his ears, too.) McBeevy gives Opie and old axe and a quarter, and Opie tries to explain to his Pa where they came from. Of course, nobody believes Opie has this friend who lives in the trees, has 12 hands and jingles. Finally, Andy has had enough and is thinking about punishing Opie. But he doesn't. His reason is that "There are things I ask him to believe that must seem impossible to him." You know Andy is thinking of some of the tenets of the Christian faith here. But in the end all is well as Andy and Mr. McBeevy meet and shake hands. Andy can't bring himself to tell McBeevy of his previous doubts because now all doubt is gone. Opie has been vindicated as a truth teller even though his story seemed so impossible.
Come to think of it, this might work for the appearance of Jesus to Thomas, too.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 9:12:37 AM
It is interesting that one must have making sense out of the "words" previously spoken by Jesus in order recognize the risen Jesus. Faith is the mean for us to experience Him. Faith is acting upon what we have known, learn and heard from Him.
Father, forgive me for my lack of faith, my not-acting on what I have known and learn from you.
Coho, Midway City.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 10:49:15 AM
I often point out to my parishoners that they have the advantage of 2000 years of Christianity and being born into basically Christian families. These people did not have that advantage. Everything that happened either had to carry them back to some OT prophecy or event, or it was all new and scary. They were pioneers of Christian faith, and didn't really have anything but frail human senses and frailer still human memory of new material to go on. I think it's remarkable they didn't all just head for the hills and stay there after Jesus died. I think it's amazing they could even think, let alone "remember" anything after the events of that week in Jerusalem. There was so much to absorb, so much to understand, so much they had experienced and witnessed in such a brief time. Considering they had just gone to Jerusalem with the intention of doing their Passover obligations and nothing more, this was one crazy week of mayhem, horror and the deaths of 2 people in their circle. They were probably at their wits' end by the time Easter came, wondering "What NEXT???"
It is common for people to remember words when they are in distress, however. Jesus did while he was on the Cross (Ps. 22). We often turn to childhood memory-work when we need comforting (Ps. 23). And I have heard countless people say "In that crisis of (for example) having my clothes catch on fire, I remembered what the Fireman said when he visited our school, and I just did it." Stress can bring much to the forefront of our minds. Some good things, some not so good.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 10:55:40 AM
And, following up, stress usually comes when we experience a change of some sort. Even positive change (graduation, marrying your great love) can shoot you up the Stress Meter. Surely finding the tomb empty when you knew it was full, running into angels, and hearing that the dead was now alive would be stress in the extreme.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 10:56:44 AM
On the disciples' forgetting- I noticed something within myself this past year as I read different scriptures. When Jesus would tell his followers that he would die and then rise or be raised again, I would seem to miss the rising again bit. Oh, I would read it and it must have registered somewhere. But it would be the dying part that would stand out for me. Possibly because we don't often have (thank goodness) friends or loved ones telling us they will suffer and die. Maybe that's how it was with the disciples. The dying part was so shocking and unwelcome that the rising part never really registered. At least they have an excuse. I, on the other hand, have heard the rest of the story! A blessed Easter to all LGB
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 12:40:23 PM
One of the things I disliked about "The Passion of the Christ" was the 5 second resurrection scene. To me, the passion without the resurrection is meaningless. I think sometimes, especially perhaps this year with the movie craze, we do focus too much on the suffering and not enough on the whole reason for rejoicing! I love the idea of these torn down folks beginning to feel the stirrings of hope and the "O my....Oh my gosh....OH my GOSH...OH MY GOSH IT WAS TRUE!!!!" I also love it that they were still hanging together -- still a group. They were together to support each other, and they were together to share in the joy on that Sunday. Janel in ND
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 1:30:09 PM
Janel - my beef this time of year, exactly... in reverse that is. We jump to resurrection victory without remembering the passion. Either one without the other is meaningless.
Sally
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 1:40:37 PM
Thanks, Janel. Well said.
I haven't decided which of the 4 Gospel accounts I'm going with this week, but it doesn't matter. The gist will be no matter what happens in this life, there is nothing bigger than the Resurrection of Jesus. If Jesus can break through the bonds of death - on our behalf - then he can walk us through any illness, any sadness, any fear, any confusion, any hopelessness, any suffering, anything at all. If God can raise the dead and glorify the reviled, then God can lift us up, and he will. There are so many even in this small congregation who need to hear that. They have family and friends and neighbors who need that spark of recognition that something is bigger than their troubles and more powerful than their negative experiences of life. Easter is the center of that recognition. Easter is why I'm here. Easter is why I preach. Easter is why I pray. Easter is why I believe. Easter is what I claim and try to offer every single Sunday.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 1:48:21 PM
I'm wondering out loud. We know Jesus' body still showed the nail prints and the place where his side had been pierced. Do you imagine his body still showed signs of the scourging and the crown of thorns? Yes, the blood had been washed off, but torn flesh is hard to hide. Any good reading on this out there?
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 3:03:51 PM
How does Mr. McBeevy have 12 hands? I like the illustration…
Rev. N in RI
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 3:20:39 PM
Sally, I would not presume to say the passion is not important, but the resurrection is the UTMOST to me. The resurrection is my hope, my joy, the promise that I cling to. The passion is certainly necessary -- and we do a wonderful (and well attended) tenebrae service in my small congregation and a community-wide Good Friday service (also well attended) so we are certain not to just skip over the hard stuff -- but the ultimate celebration IMHO is Easter worship. The bubbling joy of the women at the tomb and the disciples -- that feeling in your stomach when something wonderful is happening -- that's what Easter is to me. Janel in ND
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 8:21:44 PM
Rev N. in RI, Mr. McBeevy had those claw type things that linesmen and tree-toppers use to climb the poles. They smash the sharp claws into the wood and pull themselves up. They're metal, so when they hang on the belt, they clang and jingle. (It may not be the actual number 12 - it may be 8 or 6 or some other number. It's been years and years since I watched the old Andy Griffith show. I don't have cable. But this detail aside, Mr. McBeevy called those claw things his "hands".) I have no idea if these workers use the "hands" any more or not. Most probably use the cherry-picker crane machinery now.
Date: 4/5/2004
Time: 9:28:25 PM
In good Methodist fashion, I was recently offered a new appointment, only two years after arriving at my current church. My first six months here were very painful and turbulent, and many of the leaders of the church thought I was a very bad choice to be their pastor.
Two years later, committees are functioning, making decisions and doing ministry. And I'll be baptizing eleven children and receiving several adults into membership on Easter. These are resurrection signs for me. They weren't completely dead when I got here, of course, and today they're not completely raised. But the experience of the risen Christ, even in bits and pieces, is always what has kept the church believing. The disciples (women included) had the experience at the tomb, but we do not. So I'm going to try to point to the places Christ is raised in us, as individuals and as a church.
I too am struck by the question, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?" That needs more work.
Laura in TX
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 1:34:11 AM
I think I am going to focus of the fact that no one or nothing could hold or capture Jesus. Every time some one wanted to capture Jesus and do something to him he would excape. When he was in his home town of Nazareth He just walke through them when they took Him to the edge of the cliff to through Him off. The only time Jesus was held was when he chose to be and that was for the purpose of dying for our sins and after that again Jesus could not be held by the grave. Everything Jesus did He did because he chose to. Jesus chose to die for me. Jesus chose to die for you. Jesus chose you to be his. God loves you and there is nothing that can hold you and keep you from recieving God's blessings becausse Jesus choses for you not to be held.
JWS
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 3:59:51 AM
Speaking of CEO's, they are an interesting challange! They must believe something or they wouldn't go to church for whatever reason. What is it that our church does not provide that makes them not want to return untill Christmas? Where do we fall short? I sometimes feel a smug superiority among Christians reguarding these people, can they feel it too? What can we do with this oppertunity?
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 6:04:17 AM
I'm going to focus on the "idle tale" theme. In reading through the various posts, many have mentioned the "CEO" Christians. It puts me in mind of a local church with a big banner on their front lawn with a picture of Jesus in his crown of thorns, with his head drooped. The caption is "Truth of Fiction? Come Sunday and find out."
While I like the investment in the banner, and their boldness in addressing peoples' natural doubts, I also know that many who reject the Christian message would reject out of hand, that banner. It's on a church lawn, for crying out loud, what do you THINK they're going to tell you is truth?
However, a seeker who's curious might visit to take a peek. I know I do stuff like that when I seek.
All that to lead up to the "idle tale." Proclaiming the risen Christ will seem an idle tale until somehow, somewhere, there is a personal encounter with him. And Christ WANTS that personal encounter with all of us individually...
The CEO Christians, in my assessment - and there is some projection going on here, WANT to believe, but can't get past the dis-belief factor. When you think about it, who WOULD believe it just on someone's word? Somewhere, somehow, we need to show the dis-believer a pathway to the empty tomb so they can see it for themselves. It's what our neighbors are trying to do with the "Truth of Fiction?" banner.
"Truth of Fiction?" If it weren't for that banner, I might use that for my title. I think I m ight call it, "An Idle Tale."
And then there's always the component that our lives render what we proclaim with our lips an idle tale.
Sally in GA
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 8:11:41 AM
Sally, that banner may somehow be connected with the Mel Gibson movie recently released in some Arab countries. The new argument on the circuit is not just Anti-Semitism, but now this: The Koran speaks of the Crucifixion of Jesus as a fallacy, and that somehow another person was crucified in his place.
I'm now quoting from an AP newspaper article, which quotes the Koran (Quran) 4:157 ---- "They say 'we killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah' - but they killed him not, nor crucified him. But so it was made to appear to them. And those who differ therein are full of doubts with no knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not." Muslims believe another man was crucifed in Jesus' place." End quote from AP.
I don't know if this is of any value to the idea of Truth or Fiction, but I pass it along anyway. And you may have read it yourself in the newspapers.
Of course, the NT era Docetism and Gnosticism and any number of new isms - including today's doubtism - could be what got that banner printed.
I like where you're taking your sermon, by the way.
KHC
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 8:25:10 AM
Sally in GA,
Just stay like you are: non-toxic in the poisoned atmosphere of your board members. This is the best lesson you can possibly give.
On the topic of CEO's, I keep thinking about the little churches Paul started as he travelled about along the Roman roads. Peter Jennings' special last night, Jesus and Paul, was terrific! I never thought about travel being so unhibited in that day, as apposed to today. Mobility was much easier in Paul's day and it created a mobile society were individuals were cut off from their families (much like today in much of the west). What these people found when they disovered the church was a caring family, just what they needed the most. Granted, there were arguments about how to live, but underneath all that was a desire to care for the stranger as they had been cared for in the name of Jesus. This is why, Jennings explained, the churches thrived in the Roman empire. I never thought about travel between borders then would be so much easier than today.
Steve in KS
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 8:30:16 AM
On Ash Wednesday, a Disciples of Christ pastor forgot the ashes, so he used toner black from the copier. Let's just say that his people were marked for a bit longer than they expected. Now the 7 weeks is over and the mark of the cross on our foreheads has turned to an emerging butterfly, resurrection victory as "everybody comes alive in Christ." (1 Cor. 15:22)
And Laura, I hope you gracefully declined the offer of a new appointment since you're already serving in one!
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 10:16:39 AM
Hey folks,
Last Sunday, I talked about Jesus, the rules breaker, and talked about how Jesus offended the leaders by his emphasis on relationship over rules.
This week, it's Jesus, the Rule Breaker - as in breaking those things that rule our lives, that grind us down - as I think about it,
I'm going to talk about the rule of death the rule of evil - the Son of Man handed over to sinners, but God working in the midst of that evil. the rule of injustice - how the women were the first witnesses - not the men the rule of doubt and disbelief - the disciples not believing then I'm going to focus a bit on those who are Easter guests - and ask if they have the doubt part, will they at least do like Peter, and come check it out for themselves. And then over time, they like Peter will see if it is for real.
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 10:17:33 AM
Hey folks,
Last Sunday, I talked about Jesus, the rules breaker, and talked about how Jesus offended the leaders by his emphasis on relationship over rules.
This week, it's Jesus, the Rule Breaker - as in breaking those things that rule our lives, that grind us down - as I think about it,
I'm going to talk about the rule of death the rule of evil - the Son of Man handed over to sinners, but God working in the midst of that evil. the rule of injustice - how the women were the first witnesses - not the men the rule of doubt and disbelief - the disciples not believing then I'm going to focus a bit on those who are Easter guests - and ask if they have the doubt part, will they at least do like Peter, and come check it out for themselves. And then over time, they like Peter will see if it is for real.
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 11:00:18 AM
What strikes me in the Gospel according to Luke is that there is no Jesus in the Resurrection Story! No Jesus in the tomb...no Jesus who appears to the women or disciples. Jesus’ physical body doesn’t show up until he walks with those on the Emmaus road. What we do have are messengers saying, “Remember how he told you...” and “Then they remembered his words...” Faith comes by remembering the words of Jesus. Out of all of the Gospel accounts, I think, Luke is the one which people of today (especially the CEO’s) can relate with for we do not get to see the resurrected Jesus, only we have messengers tell us to remember and then faith does.
Grace and Peace Badlands Paul
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 11:01:43 AM
In good Methodist fashion, I was recently offered a new appointment, only two years after arriving at my current church. My first six months here were very painful and turbulent, and many of the leaders of the church thought I was a very bad choice to be their pastor.
Two years later, committees are functioning, making decisions and doing ministry. And I'll be baptizing eleven children and receiving several adults into membership on Easter. These are resurrection signs for me. They weren't completely dead when I got here, of course, and today they're not completely raised. But the experience of the risen Christ, even in bits and pieces, is always what has kept the church believing. The disciples (women included) had the experience at the tomb, but we do not. So I'm going to try to point to the places Christ is raised in us, as individuals and as a church.
I too am struck by the question, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?" That needs more work.
Laura in TX
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 11:10:10 AM
oops! I didn't realize I would be sending that silly message again. Sorry. And no, I didn't decline the offer, although I thought about it. I figure God has used me here, and the new call has come for a new reason. It's to a super place, anyway.
techno-challenged Laura in TX
Date: 4/6/2004
Time: 3:51:39 PM
I hope no one is going to actually make statements in the church service about the CEO's. I have been in services where that has happened, and I always felt sorry for the CEO's who had the courage to walk in for one of two days out of the year that they felt a call to go to church, seeking whatever, only to be bombarded about their not being there the rest of the year! Let's all use this time to ask some questions that will get them seeking more, and then bathe them in the Grace of God for them, so that they hopefully develop a real hunger for more!!
Susan in Wa.
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 12:48:11 AM
Maybe my experience is unique, but when I look at the much larger than usual crowd on Easter morning, the folks I see are not CEO's. We have many members who come occasionally, half the time, or most of the time. Easter and Christmas are when they are SURE to come. What draws them to these services? Special music? Decorations and flowers? Tradition? Because they know pretty much what message they will hear--and want to hear?
Joe in Virginia
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 6:58:12 AM
KHC - I hadn't heard one thing about that AP article and the Muslim reaction to the Gibson movie. Thanks for the info, though. While I'd figured that it was capitalizing on the movie's timing and mainstreaming (simply smart, in my humble opinion), the quote from the Koran is new to me!
Sally
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 7:12:21 AM
Laura in TX -
That's AWESOME!!! I'm glad it was an accidental re-post (or should I say, "Quote - accidental") because I'd missed it the first time through. My friend and colleague has brought her church around after some hard times, especially because they didn't want a woman. Now the church is healthier - and, just as you said, they weren't completely dead, and neither are they completely resurrected. But, heck, isn't it something to say that they're resurrected enough to be on their way and no longer dependent on you?
My favorite mathematical concept is that of x approaching zero. x never really gets there mathematically-speaking because "approach" is infinite. However, x, by all other evidence not only reaches zero but surpasses it. (picture a ferris wheel in motion and the boarding poitn as point zero - you can't mathematically prove that the rider in motion ever gets there because the motion is infinite - yet, you know the rider passes the zero point many times before getting off the ride).
OK - when I've talked about this concept before, TWO, only TWO people have ever thought like me on it. So, not to discount my own thought, but please don't send a bunch of posts going, "HUH?"
I think Paul Tillich was a differential mathemetician.
Sally in GA
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 7:14:05 AM
Oh, that was a way of explaining "resurrected enough" concept. Mathematically speaking X gets close enough to zero to effectively be considered at the zero point.
OK - I won't belabor it. I admit tto being somewhat unique in that thought.
sally
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 7:16:13 AM
Joe in Virginia - that's been my experience, too.
Another experience is that in the elderly congregations I've served is that attendance is LOWER on Easter - because everyone is off seeing their grandchildren in their Easter plays at other churches.
Or, maybe it's because I keep trying to explain theology with calculus. :-)
Sally in GA
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 7:17:20 AM
kidding, of course, about the calculus
(it just occurred to me that I might have just invited a bunch of advice on how I shouldn't do that)
-S
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 9:16:35 AM
To Badlands Paul,
This is a very helpful thought (no Jesus in this story at the tomb, only messengers saying remember ..). Thanks.
This is from Brian Stoffregen. I think it may be helpful along this line: "Where should we seek the living [one]? The answer given by the two men is "remember" (v. 6). This word (mimneskomai) also occurs in v. 8 when the women "remember" his words. mimneskomai is not found in any of the other empty tomb accounts. This word is related to terms translated "tomb" (mnema -- Lk 23:53; 24:1 and mnemeion -- Lk 23:55; 24:2, 9, 12, 22, 24). Perhaps a similar connection might be made between seeking for Jesus' body behind his memorial stone and seeking the living one in our memories.
What does it mean to "remember"? Part of it means to make some thoughts present. Words or events that happened in the past become part of one's life in the present. With the reminder from the "two men" about the words Jesus had said in the past, those words become part of the women's present lives. They remember Jesus' words -- but probably more than just words. rhema is also used by Luke to refer to "things" (1:37, 65; 2:19, 51). They remember Jesus. While the women remember Jesus' words, the other disciples think that the words from the women are nonsense (v. 11). Back to remembering: This same word is used by a criminal on the cross, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom" (23:42). Did he expect Jesus just to think about him in the heavenly throne-room? I think not. Jesus' answer indicates something more than a mental activity: "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Remembering this criminal meant making him present with Jesus in the kingdom.
...Luke uses anamnesis in his account of the Last Supper (22:19). Only Luke, of the gospel writers, follows Paul's version (1C 11:24-25) of having Jesus telling the disciples to "do this in remembrance of me." This "remembering" is more than just "thinking about," but "re-presenting" the historical event, so that we, in the present, are also participants. Tannehill (Luke, Abingdon NT Commentaries) notes that all of "Luke 24 must be understood as a continuous series of interrelated events, not as separate pericopes that can be adequately understood in isolation" [p. 349]. All of the events in chapter 24 occur on the same day and in fairly close proximity to each other. They also complete the resurrection story by presenting two accounts of resurrection appearances. Both accounts include an exposition of scriptures (24:27 & 45) and the sharing of food (24:30 & 42-43). Where should one seek the living one? The risen Jesus appears in the Word and in the Meal. We seek the living one by remembering his words and "doing this in remembrance" of him. Culpepper (Luke, New Interpreter's Bible) comments that our connection with the resurrected Jesus have to go beyond the events at the tomb: What, then, are the tangible evidences of the resurrection in our present experience? Do they consist in the physical remains of the tomb, or in Jesus' continuing presence in the lives of those who hope for his kingdom? ... While the Gospels all affirm that the tomb was empty, they point beyond it to the post-resurrection appearances. For all the importance of the historical data, the Gospels ground our faith not on the stone and the linen cloths but on the presence of the risen Lord in human experience. Typically, it is not the persuasive power of the empty tomb but a personal encounter with the risen Lord that leads to faith. [p. 473] However, our Easter texts and our Easter lives do not end with remembering or even experiences of re-presenting the risen Lord; but with telling others. The women, after being reminded and remembering, tell it to the apostles (v. 10) -- even though the men think their words are nonsense. After the risen Jesus explains the scriptures and breaks bread with the two in Emmaus, they rush back to Jerusalem to tell others what had happened (v. 35). After Jesus appears to the group in Jerusalem and eats in their presence and opens their minds to understand the scriptures -- he also tells them that they are witnesses of these things (v. 48). Can we say that we really believe in the resurrection of the Lord if we aren't willing to tell others about it? ? Brian Stoffregen
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 9:22:07 AM
PS: That last note to Badlands Paul is from me,
Steve in KS
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 11:26:41 AM
To Paul in the Badlands,
I too appreciate the observation of no mention of the risen Christ in the Luke story, only by the word and remembering. I believe it was Brian Stoffregen who said that Luke followed in using the words of Paul. My thought was that since Luke or Paul never really knew Jesus in his lifetime, it would make sense that they would both talk about knowing Jesus through the word and remembering in the sacrament. It doesn't make it any less real, of knowing the risen Christ. Lots of good potential there for an Easter message.
Susan in Wa.
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 11:41:32 AM
Remembering:
We "remember" people in prayer all the time. Does that mean we'd forgotten about them or their needs?
Well, yes, in a way. I don't think of every congregant's and friend's needs every minute of the day. Technically, that's "forgetting," isn't it?
There's something about the spiritual act of prayer that calls forth "remembering."
David Clem (or is it Daniel Clem) had a meditation on this word in his Lenten devotional series last year or the year before. Re-Member me. Put me back together after members are torn apart.
It's what Paul was talking about, I daresay, in the letter to the Corinthians. Broadening the Salvation message to all who would hear - including the Gentiles.
Sally
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 12:22:43 PM
Something to ponder --- Is the resurrection something that happens to Jesus, or something that he is? Jesus says, "I am the resurrection and the life." These words he speaks following the raising of Lazarus. God is one who gives life. By being born again, anew, from above we have eternal life today in Jesus Christ. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, are we not moving from death (the penalty for sin) to life. Perhaps this is the resurrection to eternal life? PH in OH
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 12:28:38 PM
In O. Weslet Allen Jr.'s book, "Preaching Resurrection," he suggests (at least when preaching John) that we fail to give the C & E people only the empty tomb. They need more. They need to know what resurrection means in a practical way come Monday morning when there are ham leftovers, dried out peeps and Easter grass scattered over the house. I am going to concentrate on the Monday after the Resurrection. Notice, the disciples go home. So do we. What's next? PH in OH
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 9:00:40 PM
u people r on a role! i have seldom been so blessed as this present reading of your thoughts. wish i had something to contribute but i'm just a sponge this week, family. the concept of rememebring is awsome! thanks. Sorry but for my second and thrid service i am preaching from Acts 3: 1-10 about the healing of the golden gate man. coming from the last part of Phil 4:8 "whatever is worthy of praise." I'm sort of tired of defending the resurrection. thought it would be fun to talk about the praise that comes into transformed lives through the workings of people who had experienced the resurrected Jesus. So i thank the Father for the resurrected Jesus, the resurrected minisry of apostles,the resurrection of people who have no logical hope and get healed any way and the resurrection of ministries that are not built on what u have but on what our Father is willing to share through us from His wealth. And finally i am thankful for all of u, my family i will sit down with someday in eternity and praise the Father for what is goo and truly "dwell" on these things. I guess that's what Paul really meant when he said to dwell on these things in Phil 4:8. Thanks to all of u i now know that dwell means to remember. thanks Jesus gang. ur the best. --oh yes and i will be remembering in our liturgiacl 8:00 am service from Luke. Praise God for the resurrection. tulsa liturgical baptist.
Date: 4/7/2004
Time: 9:11:54 PM
Sally in GA--
Thanks for your thoughts, and even for your calculus (although I didn't know that's what it was until you told us so)! I really am trying to find a way to speak to these folks, who are having a hard time understanding why the cabinet is moving me when we're just now getting rolling. So I'm going to try to make it about God and not about us, that God is doing these things, raising up a church in this place, a church finding a new connection to the community--try to get them fired up about staying engaged and available for that work, no matter who their pastor is. That's supposed to be the point anyway, although it seems a new concept to some of these life-long Methodists.
So as we all question the timing of this move (me included), we also try to re-member Jesus' words to us, and let Jesus re-member us. While we won't get all the way raised up until the Last Day, we sure can look around and see resurrection long before that happens.
Laura in TX
Date: 4/8/2004
Time: 7:01:14 AM
wow! there's a whole year's worth of material here on this site. -wish my congregation could soak up all these musings...much more stuff than I could ever muster for a sermon!
But here's my wrinkle in the fabric: It seems Luke's gospel paints a challenge for through the characters of Easter morning in that each one needs to come to terms both PERSONALLY AND COLLECTIVELY with the empty tomb---or for the church this week the story (idle tale) of that empty tomb. It's not enough to hear even the most convincing account of witnesses. It's also not enough to deal with it outside the dialogues with the likes of angels and other seekers. And it's not enough to simply face the scene of Easter morning without the recollection of all the pieces of the prelude to the scene OR the post-script. We can come to Easter, peer in on the scene, and walk away again untouched (its happened to many!), or we can make of it a struggle; a yearning; an obsession worth seking and wrestle with until it reveals Christ to us convincingly.
Question: is it really the work of a worship service to convince folks of resurrection...or is this ultimately the work of the Spirit in the life of the ones pointed to the tomb in our worship???
Perry (Mennonite in Kitchener/ Waterloo)
Date: 4/8/2004
Time: 9:03:26 AM
Children sermon idea, takes some prep time...
"When we visited our son in San Antonio I saw the eggs they sell on the streets. I believe it is a Mexican tradition. I forget what they are called. I had never seen it before. Maybe someone in the southwest knows what I'm talking about. The eggs are hollow and filled with confetti or glitter, etc. The idea is to break them over people for good like, I believe.
Here's what I did. The eggs are blown out (poke a small hole at the top and bottom of the raw egg and then blow through until all the contents squirt into a bowl.) Rinse them out and let them dry, then dye them or otherwise decorate them. Glue a small piece of tissue paper over one of the holes (the tissue becomes fairly transparent and isn't really noticeable) and fill the egg (through the other hole) with glitter or confetti or anything else like that. Then glue the other opening with tissue paper. They look like regular old Easter eggs.
Discuss the symbolism of the egg as a tomb and as a symbol of new life.
Tell the kids you made some Easter eggs but you didn't remember to boil them first (not a lie). Talk about what would happen if you cracked open a raw egg. You can play this up and talk about how you need to be VERY careful because the a so fragile and you would hate for someone to get raw egg all over themselves.
See if you can get a volunteer to let you crack the egg over their head, or toss it around and "accidentally" break it over one of the kids. Everyone is usually surprised that some thing completely different comes out - not what they expected.
Talk about the women who went to the tomb and found something different than they expected. "He is not here. He is risen! (Luke 24:6a) We had a lot of fun with it the times I did it.
Linda Eberly First UMC Bennington, VT"
Perhaps someone has already forwarded this... my friend Kip from Spearfish, SD forwarded it to me...
I'll read and start my Easter Sermon prep... at the end of the week... I want to experience ALL of Holy Week first! ;?)
pulpitt in ND
Date: 4/8/2004
Time: 11:29:30 AM
Thanks, Laura!
I'm on kind of the opposite end right now. In order for resurrection to happen - for the Kingdom of God - we must bury some near, dear (but nonetheless many sinful) things in my congregation. We're taking steps to make that happen, and I've got to stay focused on my calling and passion as never before (and damn the torpedoes, as I said to my friend earlier). Another church in the area is closing and merging with us - and now is the time to make a bright new beginning. Only, my primary adversary (and most toxic in the congregation) is doing everything in her power to rally the troops.
This is going to be tough - and I'm thinking of the difficulty of what it took for Jesus to be resurrected. The triumph wasn't - ISN'T - just over the grave; but over anything binding us to earth, keeping us from God.
OK, now that corny song is running through my head, "Because He lives, I can face tomorrow ..."
But isn't the Easter message pretty corny?
For my chidlren's sermon, I'm going to use one of those plastic eggs and re-count the story of the little boy who, when given an assignment for Sunday school for EAster brought back an empty egg ... because that's what Easter is full of - emptiness. Empty grave. Empty egg.
Sally
Date: 4/8/2004
Time: 1:14:37 PM
I am struck that in the Lukan version of the Resurrection account Jesus does not appear -- he is only spoken about. We must go to Emmaus to actually encounter him -- in the opening of the Word and the breaking of the bread. Do not seek the living among the dead -- he is not there, he is wherever his body gathers. revwaf in Coconut Grove
Date: 4/8/2004
Time: 6:31:41 PM
Sally I don't think I can preach the x to o to the point thing, it was only and truely by the intervention of the Holy Spirit I made it through functions, trig and adv. algebra... lol. nancy-Wi
Date: 4/9/2004
Time: 5:23:58 AM
I have heard from several people (a few on this forum as well) who wanted more of the resurrection in Gibson's, The Passion of the Christ. Personally, I thought it very meaningful.
It seemed to me that Gibson was saying - now you know who Jesus is and what he has done for you. He is alive, now what are you going to do with all of this? For me, it was like Jesus stepped out of the frame and into the audience. Where will the story of resurrection continue? For me, it continues in my re-commitment to Christ and ministry. I haven't been the same since I saw this movie and read Rick Warren's, The Purpose Driven Life.
After the Easter Service, how do continue to testify to the Resurrection?
John near Pitts.
Date: 4/9/2004
Time: 5:36:59 AM
Oh, there'd be NO WAY the X approaching Zero concept would actually PREACH for anybody but a group of math nerds, but it's one of those things that's fun to think about. (for me, at least ...)
:-)
Sally
Date: 4/9/2004
Time: 6:00:12 AM
No one's mentioned yet the idea of the women as messengers. Women would have been viewed as less-than-credible witnesses in the patriarchal society they lived in.
Once again, God uses the less-than-credible to proclaim the most IN-credible.
Sally
Date: 4/9/2004
Time: 12:14:28 PM
Sally, would the men have remembered to deliver the message?
Smiling
Date: 4/9/2004
Time: 7:44:15 PM
Just a word to my sisters and brothers in Christ about CEO's. Be careful not to prejudge them. I met my husband prior to him being sent to Vietnam. As a child, he received special attendance awards for Sunday School. He even took me to church when he visited me in college. When he returned home, we were married, and I joined the church in which he grew up. This was a mistake. It appears some things had happened as often do, and he didn't want to attend. We became CEO's and whenever our children sang in the choir parents. A short time ago, I met one of the pastors of our church back then. She was amazed I had answered the call to ministry. She said she'd always wondered how she could activate our young family. I asked her if she'd ever thought of visiting us. She admitted whe probably hadn't thought of that. Food for thought. I had been a faithful churchgoer, but wanted to attend as a family (my mistake). Now, my husband attends church and Sunday School (not my class) regularly, and has for years. Often, there are reasons that people aren't in church more often. Perhaps, it might be worth our while to attempt to visit them. Just a thought. During the past couple of months, I spent quite a bit of time ministering with a couple who were listed as inactive members. I was usually called when the wife was hospitalized. When she died, the husband called me, and I traveled some distance to the hospital. He told me he wanted to return to church. He has been in worship the past three weeks since her death - definitely the work of the Holy Spirit, and an open heart. Have a blessed Easter. Pastor Laura in OH
Date: 4/9/2004
Time: 11:32:04 PM
Sally, your musings are even better than usual this week. Hope you can hang in there on your frustrations. I’m in a half similar dilemma myself. I have two churches. One is moving and growing. It seems folks all want to get involved and make a difference. My other church is foundering and is probably only two people away from dying. I’m very frustrated and can salvage a little of my self-esteem only by reminding myself that it’s the same me at both churches.
A point of interest is the mission statement/motto of each church. The first church’s: “Showing Christ through worship, outreach, fellowship and commitment.” The second’s “Sharing Christ’s message in a country style.” One is outwardly focused; the other inwardly.
Best wishes to you in handling the “poison”. Peace & blessings, Rich in Bama
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 7:16:45 AM
Sally, The concept you're talking about works when dividing by x. As x gets closer and closer to zero, the resulting ratio value approaches infinity. When x is actually zero, the ratio is actually infinity. It's too much for small minds like Newton, Liebniz, Einstein and the rest of us to comprehend. Possible preaching connection: As my life becomes less and less centered around myself, x,the more it is centered around God. As my self-centeredness approaches zero, my spiritual maturity and connection with God and creation approaches infinity. To be completely self-less is to be completely connected with the infinite God of the universe. ---David in OH
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 7:42:52 AM
Sally
Being a simple, Man, … (Redundant according to my wife.) I take you math illustration to Horse Shoes and hand grenades. They only have to be close enough for practical purposes.
As I read your post I hear your pain and smell the rubber hitting the road.
Tbowen North Ga ( UMC)
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 7:58:12 AM
Rich in Bama -- I had the same situation in my previous two church parish. One church thriving, one foundering. I said it was God's way of keeping me on an even keel -- so I wouldn't take too much credit and get a swelled head about the success at church #1, or beat up on myself about the failures at church #2. Peace & Easter blessings. -- Mike in Maryland
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 8:09:36 AM
Rich in Bama - I've served 2 circuits, and I identify with your dilemma. One of them was a 3-point charge, and one church BEGAN with the idea of a fresh start and we had enough healthy, on-the-ball people to actually make it turn around! It was a church-development plan. One was kind of stuck - but at an Easer Sunrise service, the spirit moved, and some of the people who attended the main service said that they cancelled their other plans (whether worship or going out of town) to attend that worship - and by the next week, attendance doubled (we were still talking about a grand total of 24). This was the church that made big local news because a murdered, dismembered, set-afire body was found in the graveyard one Sunday morning! The third was a homely church down a dead-end dirt road way out in the sticks, whose road sign (the road was named after the church) often got stolen - a church rumored to be haunted - and that frequently got vandalized. The people were warm, but they were too married to that ugly building with no running water (if you get my drift) to do actual ministry. That was the only church of the 3 that had a motto: "A church rooted in the past and looking to the future." My husband remarked once, "A church rooted in the past and still looking back at it." Yeah, right down to the outhouse.
Does our ministry, or lack thereof, turn our proclamation into an idle tale? And how long before we believe it to be idle, as well?
I'm giving you the same encouragement right back ... Hang in there! And (this is a reminder to myself as well as to you) remember that only God can transform - there are no holes in our hands.
Have a blessed RESURRECTION CELEBRATION!!!!
Sally
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 10:46:06 AM
Rich in Bama, I also served a two-church charge where one was alive and the other toxic and destructive. After 7 1/2 years I quit the dying church. Someone else is serving there and it is not any better.
I am preaching to more people now in one church than I was in two! Once the burden of the dying church was off my heart, everything got lighter and more loving. I do not know if that church will survive. It will not the way it has been treating its pastors for the last twenty years.
Theological point: Some churches, like people, seek and live for resurrection; others just die and remain in the grave! Some people die who never lived. Some exist who never loved. All we can do if offer the possibility of new life in love to them. The rest is up to the individual and the community they are a part of.
A W-G rocky coast Me.
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 11:51:36 AM
Did anyone see or hear rather, the author of a new book... about "paradigm shifts"... how some things that happen in our lives, change our "world view"... they interviewed a lady... or I dreamed they did. She thought she was SET in her beliefs... I can't remember for the life of me what changed her mind... but it was the idea of being OPEN to the change. I know it is late posting... for Easter...
My personal favorite Jesus movie is "The Greatest Story Ever Told"... the made for TV Mini-series... I will play the resurrection scene tomorrow in church. (Yes, I have a license to do so!) ;?)
I dreamed last night that after sharing my understanding of Satan, or lack thereof, the person in my dream... changed her mind.
I don't believe in Satan... evil yes... Satan no... anyway, in my dream the person thanked me for "she had never looked at 'Satan' that way before.
I'm rambling... still, I think there is something to be said about our need to be the "first one home"... the first one to know GOD... the almost childlike way the Disciples Peter and the faster runner thought to be John, the one whom Jesus loved.
In the world, we want to be the ones who "KNOW THE TRUTH"...
I listened to Condoleeza Rice as she spoke in front of congresses investigative committee of 9/11. Senator Bob Kerry...
KERREY: It worries me. And I wanted to make that declaration. You needn't comment on it, but as I said, I'm not going to have an opportunity to talk to you this closely.
And I wanted to tell you that I think the military operations are dangerously off track. And it's largely a U.S. Army -- 125,000 out of 145,000 -- largely a Christian army in a Muslim nation. So I take that on board for what it's worth." The entire transcript can be found... http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/08/rice.transcript/index.html
OK, ok... I'll stop... still, to "change the world" as Christ did to those of us who are Christian doesn't mean we need to make the world believe as we do...
A final thought...
In a pub in England, this mornings paper read..."And the 11th commandment is..."
The Methodist Church, together with Christian Web site shipoffools.com, invited drinkers to send in mobile phone text suggestions for an 11th commandment, leaving details of the unusual competition on beer mats in pubs around the nation.... the #1 was "thou shalt not worship any more pop idols"... but other top submissions for a new commandment were... "Thou shalt not kill in the name of any God", "Thou shalt not be negative", and finally "Thou shalt not consume thine own bodyweight in fudge." (or might I add, Chocolate Easter Bunnies)
Thanks for listening with your eyes... ;?)
A blessed Easter to you all,
pulpitt in ND
My sermon title is... "The First One... Home!"
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 12:50:02 PM
My thought this Easter is that if nothing has been resurrected in me it will be difficult to encourage that to happen in others. I just today remembered my long ago 'journey' back to faith after college and was able to put together my past with more clarity, and I hope to express that to others. The CEO's (I like that term, Thanks!) maybe need to look into their lives and see if they can find something resurrecting. If they do, the miracle is underway! Remembering in NJ
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 3:53:49 PM
If I had a quarter for every CEO I had visited, invited to join us for Church, sent a hand-written invitation to some special event we're holding, telephoned to remind them to please join us for the fellowship night we're having, stopped on the street corner to talk to, sent birthday cards and congratulatory cards to, and invited to come join us for Sunday School, I would have retired to the French Riviera a decade ago. If I had a quarter for every one of them who actually followed through on their promise to show up to anything (Besides C and E) I would have no quarters in my piggy bank. Inviting, visiting, corresponding and caring don't do a thing if they aren't interested anyway. They want to come on the Holy Days of Obligation (which C and E seem to be for so many) and nothing more.
I have quit trying. It was taking WAAAAAAAAYYYY too much of my time away from the people who are interested in being in Church worship, ministry, mission and fellowship with us. I'll concentrate on them. They are a whole less high-maintenance.
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 4:04:41 PM
To many, Christmas and Easter are free music concerts. They love the Cantatas, the extra musicians, the soloists, the happy, uplifting hymns they remember from childhood. The idea of going to Church for a message of hope and salvation seems to be the last thing on their minds.
No, I'm not a cynic. This is what I am told every year by our CEO's. They loved the music. The regular attenders comment about all aspects of the service - the sermon, the decorations, the bulletin covers, the special banner, the children's time - but the CEO's always comment on the music and only the music. It never fails.
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 5:20:36 PM
Another Easter season fast upon us. I've only been preaching for 15 years, but I have come to believe there are only so many ways to preach the Easter Sunday sermon. There simply are no more unearthed truths to be proclaimed from the pulpit, (as it pertains to the Easter Sunday) few if any nuggets of creative ways to tell that which has been told so many times over. This year I hope to "tell the old, old story...for those who know it best seem hungering and thirsting to hear it like the rest." For those who may not know the old old story, what a refreshing thought to preach the Risen Christ on Easter morn. Is there any greater truth than that? Blessings to all of us Desperate Preachers from snowy (4" today) Colorado
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 5:20:56 PM
Another Easter season fast upon us. I've only been preaching for 15 years, but I have come to believe there are only so many ways to preach the Easter Sunday sermon. There simply are no more unearthed truths to be proclaimed from the pulpit, (as it pertains to the Easter Sunday) few if any nuggets of creative ways to tell that which has been told so many times over. This year I hope to "tell the old, old story...for those who know it best seem hungering and thirsting to hear it like the rest." For those who may not know the old old story, what a refreshing thought to preach the Risen Christ on Easter morn. Is there any greater truth than that? Blessings to all of us Desperate Preachers from snowy (4" today) Colorado
Date: 4/10/2004
Time: 6:57:35 PM
To Linda Eberley in VT...I'm a Texan and thrilled to see your excitement over Cascarones! Happy Easter! "Instead of the conventional dyed eggs, start a new tradition by incorporating an old Mexican favorite - cascarones. The hollowed eggs are filled with confetti and cracked on the head of loved ones. This playful ritual, which has endured more than two centuries, began as a courtship custom and developed into a lighthearted children's game. More recently, it has transcended borders, achieving popularity in the Southwestern U.S. and gaining respect as an art form. Pique your interest? Log-on to Epicurious.com to learn how to make these time-honored favorites. Want the excitement without the mess? Send a virtual cascarone - simply click on the cascarone and crack an egg on the head of a pal. No clean up necessary."