Date: 4/26/2004
Time: 2:47:10 PM
Master = God
Manager = Jesus
Debtors = Us.
The manager relied fully upon the mercy of the master when changing the amount of debts.
Date: 6/1/2004
Time: 6:59:28 PM
The principle of faithfulness in v.10 a key. God calls us to be accountable to the small things that are place in our decision making processes. (per Namman the leper, The parable of the talents, and the forgiveness of those who have comitted sins against us.)
Date: 8/27/2004
Time: 6:19:33 PM
I don't think of God as such a master. I can make those catagories work for me. Maybe they do for others. Nancy-Wi
Date: 8/30/2004
Time: 11:41:24 AM
Jesus tells the story of a dishonest man who cheats his employer and then is commended by him for having acted so shrewdly. Jesus reminds his listeners that God will not stand to be merely one of many commitments.
Date: 8/30/2004
Time: 11:48:34 AM
The manager in Jesus' parable resembles certain characters in this decade's business scandals. He's cooked the books, and when caught he doctors them again.
Curiously, Jesus' own behavior isn't much different. He's wasted God's mercy on tax collectors and sinners, and soon his critics will not only fire Jesus, they'll have him killed. How dare he spend God's time and wealth on scum!
If that's not bad enough, Jesus continues to cook the books--God's books. Like the manager in the parable, he invests, while he can, in people, not in stocks and commodities. Perhaps that's simple prudence, making friends as a hedge against market crashes. Such are the riches of heaven.
"You know that 500 gallons you owe? Repay 250. Does that work for you?"
Soon the boss catches on, but what can he do? The manager didn't tell customers whose idea this was, so for all they know the owner cut everyone's bills in a fit of generosity. The boss can hardly tell everyone, "Wait! I'm not the generous guy my crazy manager makes me seem! You must all pay every last penny!"
Manager Jesus squandered his Master's goods, and now he's changed everyone's bill. He's forgiven the tax collectors, prostitutes, and many others including us, and trusted that God will make good on his outrageous promise.
By virtue of our baptism, we're in the same business--wasting God's goods on those who don't deserve forgiveness or inclusion. As the Body of Christ, we're today's version of the crooked manager who doctors God's books. God makes good on our promises of forgiveness in a world that wants nothing more than for everybody to pay for their sins.
That manager in the parable sought a home, a table to sit at when he could no longer do what he'd learned as a job. We've found that table here. In this company we enjoy the eternal habitations.
Frederick Niedner
Date: 8/30/2004
Time: 3:46:34 PM
Hey folks, Please give credit where credit is due, if you are going to quote Augsburg Fortress Sunday and Seasons you need to say so....otherwise it is actually a copyright violation (read the fine print on the inside jacket!) And I also would be one to vote for giving a name of you as a contributor even if it is a pseudo name.
OMG
Date: 9/2/2004
Time: 6:17:52 PM
When Jesus tells stories, rich men, do not usually stand for God. Here I think the manager is the one who is living into the kingdom, even if in a dishonest way. Usually, when loans were given, the interest rate was around 100-150%, so the debtors could never pay it back to the rich man. What the manager does is to forgive the over due interest owed to the rich man, therefore releasing the load of debt. He is also making friends with those he will soon have to hang out with. He is faithful with the dishonest wealth his rich manager had acquired.
Justin Ukpong, from Africa, reads this parable in such a way, because of the current debts incurred in a similar way by working poor in his own country, and because of loans given by first world countries. It seems to make sense.
RB in CA
Date: 9/3/2004
Time: 8:52:52 PM
I just have no freaking idea what to do with this.
I can deal with the fact that a parable about somebody doing bad can teach us to do something good. I can't deal with the fact tha I can't see what the parable's teaching... or maybe I should say that I can't see how the parable teaches the lesson found in verse 10. And while I can see how it teaches the lesson found in verse 9, I can't connect understand what "dishonest wealth" refers to in our lives.
HELP!
Thanks, Pastor Stinky
Date: 9/6/2004
Time: 2:56:58 PM
I can't go the way many of you have. To me , it seems obvious that Jesus is is being sarcastic, a method not unfamiliar to rabbis for emphasis. The real point is in verses 10-12, if you are not faithful in little you won't be trusted with much. Jesus is looking for those to whom he will give the kingdom. Verse 9 is the tongue in cheek punchline of the joke, "Make friends by means of dishonest wealth and they will welcome you into their eternal homes." What is the eternal home of the liars, cheaters, thieves (among whom there is no honor?) Is that the eternal home you want? Jesus seems to be saying you can't be a shrewd palm greaser and get in. God is the rich man giving such squandering managers notice. tom in TN(USA)
Date: 9/8/2004
Time: 6:55:58 AM
Central to first-century Middle Eastern cultures, and to the story in this passage, are notions of honour and shame and the relationships between clients and patrons. Honour and shame regulated client-patron relationships. Anyone operating in the social and economic world did so through patrons who were able to open doors. Those patrons in turn needed their own patrons. In this intricate web, the more clients one had and the more influential patrons one had, the more honour.
To provide a service for someone, to respond to a request for help, to look out for another's interests in one's sphere of influence, would bring honour and bind another to one as a client or patron. To go back on one's word, to ignore the demands of a patron or a client, to appear to demonstrate an inability to influence events, would bring shame and weaken the client-patron bonds.
In this story the manager is motivated by the desire to avoid shame. He has been accused of cheating (we have no idea whether the accusation has any basis in truth), his employer decides to dismiss him, and he loses his most important patron. He therefore acts to bind himself to new patrons by acting in their interests.
The rich man is also motivated by the desire to avoid shame. To employ a dishonest manager (or perhaps simply one accused for who knows what reason) is to expose oneself to shame. The rich man acts quickly but then is caught in a dilemma. If, on discovering his dismissed manager's dealings, he attempts to cancel the new arrangements, he exposes himself as incompetent for employing a crooked manager. If he simply reneges on the new deals, his word is no longer trustworthy and shame ensues. No wonder he commends the manager for his cleverness!
This manager becomes the model for Jesus' instruction in verse 9. His decisiveness and shrewdness are the qualities that Jesus wants his disciples to have. There is no time to lose and no room for half measures or for dual allegiances. Faithfulness in little or large things requires boldness, leaving behind one way of operating in and understanding the world for another.
Date: 9/8/2004
Time: 7:17:36 AM
Fred Craddock writes:
Many Christians have been offended by this parable, and on two grounds. First, some find it a bit disturbing that Jesus would find anything commendable in a person who has acted dishonestly. Why that should prove offensive is not fully clear, for everyone is a mixed bag of the commendable and the less commendable. Love of family, generosity, and loyalty are traits to be praised in persons with some unsavory ways. It is enough that Jesus did not commend the dishonesty, a quality in the man that should not discolor everything else about him. Some commentators have tried to clean up the steward by saying that his reduction of the various bills due his master was simply the subtraction of the steward's commission, a temporary loss he was willing to sustain in exchange for future favorable treatment by these customers of his master. This is an interesting view, but were it the case, the steward would not have been dishonest. The more likely interpretation is that he falsified the amounts owed his master to gain the favor of those who would later offer him hospitality in the time of his unemployment (v. 4). The second and related offense in this parable is the use of words such as "shrewd" and "clever" to describe people of the kingdom ("children of light"). The words have so commonly been associated with self-serving behavior, if not ethically questionable behavior, that it is difficult to speak of a "shrewd saint." Of course, part of the problem lies in the anticerebral bias in the church and the unwillingness, if not inability, of many to conceive of thinking as a kingdom activity. Apparently, to be childlike is taken to mean naive, even though Jesus is said, according to Mt 10.16, to have alerted his disciples to be "wise as serpents and innocent as doves."
In summary, therefore, the parable of the clever steward and its attending interpretations say to Jesus' disciples that for all the dangers in possessions, it is possible to manage goods in ways appropriate to life in the kingdom of God. However, as with the subject of prayer at 11.1-13, Luke uses this parable as the occasion to gather other sayings of Jesus on the subject of material goods. Each of the sayings in verses 10-13 states a proverbial truth which in no way depends on the parable for its meaning. Verses 10-12 contain sayings all of which are framed on what logicians call an argument a fortiori, that is, an argument from the lesser to the greater. The life of a disciple is one of faithful attention to the frequent and familiar tasks of each day, however small and insignificant they may seem. The one faithful in today's nickels and dimes is the one to be trusted with the big account, but it is easy to be indifferent toword small obligations while quite sincerely believing oneself fully trustworthy in major matters. The realism of these sayings is simply that life consists of a series of seemingly small opportunities. Most of us will not this week christen a ship, write a book, end a war, appoint a cabinet, dine with the queen, convert a nation, or be burned at the stake. More likely the week will present no more than a chance to give a cup of water, write a note, visit a nursing home, vote for a county commissioner, teach a Sunday school class, share a meal, tell a child a story, go to choir practice, and feed the neighbor's cat. "Whosoever is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much" (v. 10). Verse 13 makes an abrupt shift in literary form, the "lesser to greater" of verses 10-12 giving way to an "all or nothing" pronouncement. No servant can pledge allegiance to two masters at once; whoever tries to do so discovers in time that in actuality to only one is love and loyalty given.
Date: 9/8/2004
Time: 7:33:17 AM
The steward in Jesus' parable is crooked because he failed to exercise his vocation as steward. In fact, it would seem, the steward was not only guilty of failing to collect the rent from the manager's tenants, but that he may well have been stealing from the manager, pocketing some of the takings and blaming the tenants. Whatever the case, the fact that the manager comes for an account presupposes that accountability is part of the worldly structure—not only for the steward, but also for us. Do we make full use of what we have been given "on loan" by the Creator/Manager?
The dishonesty of the steward is not so blatant as to be immediately evident. That only means that the steward has learned how to find ways to cover his tracks. The "old Adam" is quite adept at finding ways to conceal the truth. Still, the real problem of dishonesty is not in the steward's mode of conduct, but the dishonesty about his connection to the Manager. Whose are we? That is the ultimate question which the steward fails to address.
There is only so much hiding, until the Manager calls us out—and calls us to "give an account of your management." The problem is that we don't have much of an account to give, neither by way of answer nor by way of adequate payment. We are caught in the act of poor stewardship, and we have no recourse. We are dismissed, and with divine displeasure.
What Jesus brings to us when our books don't balance is his own self—"the true riches" (v.11). Indeed, Jesus is comparable to the steward in his own parable—for Jesus was not above using all kinds of worldly imagery to describe his bringing in the kingdom. Jesus ends up cutting the debts short for people. But when he cuts the debts in his mercy, it is not simply by 20% or even 50%—it is by 100%!
These true riches are "entrusted to us" in the life of faith. "Faithfulness" is comparable to "shrewdness" in this one respect—daring to trust that the riches which Jesus brings do in fact cancel the debt, and that our outstanding poor credit really is credited for the good, making us look good before the Manager—so good, in fact, that we dare to assert that we are truly his.
We get to live life in this new credit that is ours in Christ by no longer being bound by our indebtedness and unrighteousness—nor being bound to anything else (like "mammon" or "property")—but living freely bound in the righteous relationship we have with our Lord. What distinguishes this new lifestyle from the old is that now we are no longer caught in a "got" to accounting for lives; nevertheless, we do indeed "get" to serve God.
Mike Hoy
Date: 9/9/2004
Time: 9:27:39 AM
Let's talk about "dishonest wealth." The translator's got that one wrong. In Greek, it is "mamona"--mammon. I just looked in Bauer and they offer two translations "wealth" or "property." "Dishonest wealth" adds a spin that isn't in the text. Maybe this insight can help us look at the text in terms of stewardship. How will we use our wealth? In this parable, the steward uses his wealth, his commsission on the transactions, to build relationships bececause he knows that he will need those relationships soon. --*JOSH*
Date: 9/9/2004
Time: 11:14:34 AM
Maybe this story is about relationships more than anything else: Our relationships to wealth and to God and to other humans. Notice the context of this parable...it follows the stories of the lost and the story of Lazarus and the rich man come after. Just a thought.
RB in CA
Date: 9/10/2004
Time: 7:36:00 AM
I think the most important verse is the summary at the end "no one can serve two msters; for a slave will either hate the one and love the other..." I think the slave is serving "wealth". When Jesus says in verse 9 "when it is gone, they may welcome you into the eternal homes." He's tongue in cheek saying that you know that their homes are temporal. Don't concentrate on wealth. These guys who concentrate on wealth never give up concentrating on wealth - no turning back. Look for my kingdom which is eternal. That's my take on it anyway. CB in SC
Date: 9/11/2004
Time: 6:13:19 PM
I want to thank all the folk who regularly post... your musings are a blessings, cathy in pa
Date: 9/11/2004
Time: 9:12:36 PM
111111
Date: 9/11/2004
Time: 9:18:33 PM
Some commentators (G. B. Caird et al) say that this parable might be one of those in the category of CRISIS PARABLES: The righteous ones need to take firm and resolute action in the face of persecution, just as a dishonest manager might do so in the use of mammon. If rascals can survive by shrewd bookkeeping, why should not the disciples of Jesus be just as resourceful in their transactions of love?
On the other hand, the Jewish laws of usury may be involved in this. The Law of Moses forbade the charging of interest of any kind. The Pharisees had evaded this law by applying it only in cases that would protect the poor from exploitation. They themselves, having large business dealings, could justify interest-bearing loans as mutually advantageous sharing of marketplace opportunites among those who are not destitute. If a man already had some of the commodity being borrowed (like the big borrowers of this parable), then he would not be considered destitute. These large promissory notes were not uncommon between such people. In fact, even a poor man, who had a little wheat and oil left in his bin, could be deemed “not poor” because of it. Thus the lie is carried out to its full extent. The “dishonest steward”, then, was merely writing off the interest on the loans, and therefore bringing the accounts back into compliance with the Law of Moses – probably the first righteous act of his career.
I just looked up this material. Still a bit speculative…
GEC in Mich
Date: 9/12/2004
Time: 1:59:37 AM
For those of you last week who have lost things... try praying to Saint Jude Thaddeus: saint of desperate situations, forgotten causes ,hospital workers ,hospitals ,impossible causes ,lost causes. RevPam
Date: 9/12/2004
Time: 6:02:04 PM
I just don't get this praying to Saints stuff.
Michelle
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 6:29:29 AM
Whenever I hear this passage, I am reminded of one of seminary professors who preached this gospel with the title, "Christians are called to be born again, not born yesterday." Sometime even Christians have to act seemingly clever or dishonest against the norms of this world.
My husband and I had to keep the fact that we were resigning from one of churches secret. It felt very dishonest, but the congregation kept us in the dark about a conversation they had been having for six months, and we had to wait for a vote to happen before we could resign.
Anyway, it seems that someitmes Christians have to be clever to get the work of God done. I also think of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his attempts to assasinate Hitler.
PBG in IL
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 7:40:11 AM
Is our confused response to this parable a parable, in itself, of our confused response to the absurdity of God's Grace?
Brian in MN
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 8:44:21 AM
i'm with pastor stinky.
God's peace, christine at the shore
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 9:30:35 AM
This is one of the most difficult parables of Jesus. No doubt we all will have a great time this week. This is my first take.
Warning: Heresy ahead, you might be offended!
As I read it this morning, this thought flashed through my mind: The rich man is God, the manager is me (a pastor/religious leader), and the rich man's debtors are the parishioners.
I, pastor, was accused by God for not managing His ministry properly (squandering His property = use and abuse it by my own will as it belongs to me). And He demanded a full accounting of my management practice. Worse, He was mentioning that He would no longer employ me as a pastor.
That would be a big problem for my pastoral career. It's hard to find another line of work, which would require expertise in Greek, Hebrew, Exegesis, Hermeneutics, etc. With my rhetoric skills, may be I could be a salesperson, but my conscience would hold me back from a successful sales career, I am sure...
So, I started worrying. About my family finance, about my kids, about my future. And somehow in that worrying, I forgot the option of throwing myself down at the Master's feet and beg for mercy. May be my long time position of a respectable pastor prevented me from consider such a thing.
So, I decided to use whatever time I have left to take care of myself.
I need to network more with the parishioners if I want to save my career. As I spent more time with the parishioners (the powerful ones first to be sure), I get to know them more: "So, what were your issues and struggles?"
"I am struggled the sins of ______ and ______". They answered.
"Well, don't let it bother you too much; it's not that bad. You see, according to _____, the real issue is _____." And I started to rationalized and helped them feel better, and of course, made me feel better too.
In the final analysis, if I got many parishioners to like me, if I got many to appreciate my helps to them, then I will have a better chance of continue to be their pastors.
And at the end, I've succeed in keeping my pastoral job.
I pitied many of my friends who called themselves "children of light". They have no skills whatsoever to function tactfully in a congregation. They have no idea what to do to soften a hellfire and brimstone passage in order to survive in a parish. They forgot that you need to survive first, in order to fight another day.
Just the other day I received a commendation from God Himself. He liked my pastoral work, the fact that I care and lift up these people. I guess someone will need to lift the burden of sins and guilt for them. And if I can make them feel better about the struggles they have, that's good. God likes that too (at least from His commendation).
There's only one thing I am not quite sure about His commendation. God said that my friends will "welcome me into the eternal homes". I thought God Himself would do the welcoming. And I thought there was supposed to be one eternal home for all of us, not "homes".
What's up with that? But well, I need to run to a marital counseling appointment with these guys...
Coho, Midway City. (For those who don't know me yet, the above post was entirely fictitious)
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 9:44:13 AM
Here’s a fascinating discussion from Richard Trench, “Notes on the Parables of Our Lord”, 12th edition, 1866. Sorry for the length of this Post, but at least, it’s one good thought among many ---
“In this lowering of the bills, Vitringa finds the key of the parable, and proposes the following interpretation, which deserves to be recorded, if for nothing else, yet for its exceeding ingenuity. The rich man is God, the steward the Pharisees, or rather all the ecclesiastical leaders of the people, to whom was committed the administration of the kingdom of God, who were stewards of its mysteries. But they were accused by the prophets (see for instance Ezek. 34:2; Mal 2:8), and lastly by Christ himself, that they neglected their stewardship; used the power committed to them not for the glory of God, but for purposes of self-honor—that they scattered his goods. They feel the justice of this accusation, and that they are not in the grace of their Lord, and only outwardly belong to his kingdom. Therefore they now seek to make themselves friends of others, of the debtors of their Lord, of sinful men,--and this they do, acting as though they still possessed authority in the things of his kingdom. And the way by which they seek to make these friends is, by lowering the standard of righteousness and obedience, inventing convenient glosses for the evading of the strictness of God’s law, allowing men to say, “It is a gift” (Matt. 15:5), suffering them to put away their wives on any slight excuse (Luke 16:18), and by various devices making slack the law of God (Matt 23:16); --thus obtaining for themselves favor and an interest with men, and so enabling themselves, although God’s grace was withdrawn from them, still to keep their hold on men, and to retain their advantages, their honors, and their peculiar privileges. This interpretation has one attraction, that it gives a distinct meaning to the lowering of the bills, -- “Write fifty”, “Write fourscore”; -- which very few others do. The moral will then be no other than is commonly and rightly drawn from the parable; Be prudent as they, as these children of the present world, but provide for yourselves not temporary friends, but everlasting habitations: they use heavenly things for earthly objects; but do you reverse the case, and show how earthly things may be used for heavenly.”
GEC in Mich
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 10:45:00 AM
I'm with Pastor Stinky and Christine at the Shore!! What in the WORLD does this mean? I read it, re-read it and then read through your comments, and some of it is very helpful, but seriously, I think our friend Luke, or whoever wrote this down for him had a high fever that day! I don't get it either. I'll re-read your comments though, because often, that clarifies things for me. Pastor Janel in ND
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:07:26 AM
Eugene Lowry interprets this parable in the Great Preachers Series. He connects it with the previous three parables, but especially the third. There is a compare/contrast between the two stories. Both waste the substance (the Greek is the same in both stories) Employee vs. Son, Work vs. Family, and the finally there is no party in this story. There is no party because there is no grace. This is a story of an individual who lands on his own two feet. In the other story the son lands in his father's arms. This is a story about the way the world works as Jesus makes clear in his sayings, but if you want to see the way the kingdom of God works then you have to read the other three stories. Hope this helps.
BC
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:28:34 AM
I like the idea that Jesus is actually being sacrcastic....Here's another take: maybe the manager is being commended for being decisive and shrewd. He faces a bleak looking situation and he quickly makes moves to "secure" his future. In other words, he perceives that his future is not necessarily set yet - he can impact it. Do we, as children of light, give up too quickly in the face of bleak situations, or do we believe that we can help to shape our futures???? revjaw
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:46:25 AM
Why does shrewd have all negative conotations? I sometimes think of myself as being shrewd becuase i have managed to make some changes within the congregation by letting them believe it was thier idea. I see no dishonesty in it Kathleen by Canada
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:49:28 AM
Help! I've got a number of friends coming up from the deep South to the Chicago/Rockford area and it is their first visit in 4 years of my taking a parish here. I would like to preach a sermon on the value of friendship but definitely will not be using the lectionary passage above. Any thoughts? If you'd rather you can email me at bonboyce1@aol.com. Thanks in advance! BB in IL
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 12:54:21 PM
BB in IL,
Try http://wbsa.logos.com/article.asp?id=2998
That will give you a good start on some possible texts; also look at "instances of..." link for some possible narratives to use.
Coho.
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 12:55:05 PM
Pastor Stinky, Christine at the Shore, and Pastor Janel in ND,
I'm with you!!!
I cannot make hide nor hair of this passage. Just when I think I'm getting the slightest handle on it, it slips away. Thanks BC for the suggestion of comparison to the last three parables ... especially the party aspect. I developed the party aspect big-time this past Sunday. Your point is very helpful here. I'm trying to be disciplined here and preach this text, but may bail if the light doesn't improve. Yikes!
I also think many of you have found an interesting slant in terms of Luke or Jesus being sarcastic here, but for my own part, I have trouble reading into the text that which isn't here.
Yikes again! FC
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 1:07:55 PM
One more baffled preacher here.
Something about this reminds me of mobsters (only known from books and movies). The mob boss finds out that his "capo" has been squandering - so the capo, to ensure his own position, goes around to all the debtors making his boss look good. When the boss finds out, instead of punishing his former capo, smiles and gives him a good-natured slap on the cheek for making him look good. The big thief (in Biblical economy, riches were gained by dishonesty or violence) commends the lesser thief.
Still beats the hell out of me, what Jesus was trying to say.
LF
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 1:09:10 PM
I don't think it has to be that hard a reading to understand. I think Frederick Niedner up above has a handle on it and Mike Hoy gets it even clearer. Why can't we see Jesus as the shrewd manager? We can't manage things on our own, we mess things up and when we're called to account we deserve to be fired. But Jesus cancels our debts and once we're freed from settling the account of our sins with God we're freed to serve God and each other with what we've been entrusted with. It might be an opportunity for a stewardship sermon calling us to use well all that we've been given by God, to serve God and neighbour with what we have rather than serving the wealth itself.
Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 1:54:30 PM
I'm an old-timer, retired almost 7 years. Looks like many are turning a parable into an allegory. I'm preaching on this text Sunday and Jesus seems to be saying,THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. Shrewd as some have said isn't always a negative. May also mean "bright in perception of things", "creative in though and actions", "sound in judgement". God knows the church could use some people like that today. RetRev in Packerland
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 2:22:34 PM
I'm with you retired pastor for 7 years preaching this Sunday. I hear Jesus saying "do something," to those who would see a situation as hopeless (usually the poor and outcast who might think they can do nothing), you can do something.
Shalom
bammamma
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 2:49:03 PM
I'd like some help on this perspective of the reading.
Consider that the rich man is just that, the dishonest manager just that. The manager who steals from the rich man is commended for acting shrewdly. The verse that attracts me is (8) in which Christ seems to make a distinction between the children of this age (rvs-world) who are more shrewd than the children of light.
Could that mean then the world knows how to operate within its own set of rules, but the children of light don't know how to operate within the scope and power of the Christian faith, use all the power, all available to them to be faithful.
In other words, the children of the world, age are better at being who they are than the children of light. How many times have the chidlren of light tried to operate under the world's rules-with hatred, jealously, greed, etc. This could tie in (14) which isn't included in the lectionary reading. The Pharisees, spiritual leaders and guides were acting like children of the age, lovers of money, stealing widows' houses.
Could Christ be saying the world knows how to be the world, yet the children of God don't know how to be the children of God?
Comments?
Auggie in TN
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 3:08:04 PM
You've got it Auggie in TN. Run with it. RetRev in Packerland
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 4:52:58 PM
I can’t help thinking the clue to this parable is all about the context. In Chapter 15, the Pharisees criticize Jesus for eating with tax collectors and sinners. Jesus then tells 3 parables about things that were lost (a sheep, a coin, a son), even those who are lost (like the tax collectors and sinners) have value in God’s eyes. And now in this parable he goes so far as to say, look not only do they have value but they even have something to teach you (about using the same determination, commitment, shrewdness that gets them ahead in their world and applying it to God’s work). Next week, he goes even further and says: and don’t be so sure that just because you’ve got wealth and power now that you’re guaranteed a place ahead of them in God’s kingdom, if you haven’t been doing God’s work.
And what kind of things can the people of this world teach us? Verse 9-12 tells us: do what the shrewd people who know how to achieve worldly success do and invest your resources in building relationships with people that will pay dividends for you in the future. Also, like those shrewd people keep your eye on the details, know that how you handle the little issues speaks volumes about how you will deal with the major ones, etc. But there’s a caveat in verse 13: learn from the shrewd people of this world, but remember that you can’t keep a focus on money and God at the same time, your focus always has to be on God and doing God’s work.
Does this make any sense? blessed in ont
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 5:09:55 PM
Auggie in TN:
Thanks so much for your insight. It helped me get over the hump on this one. Perhaps a title like, "Comfortable in Our Own Skin" or "Talk It then Walk It" would be appropriate.
RB in PA
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 5:47:26 PM
Auggie in TN and RB in PA. It's kind of like Taco Bell's admonition to THINK OUTSIDE THE BUN. If you have a situation that calls for action (and those are many in the church)think creatively, even though some will say "we've never done it that way before". A pastor friend got their parking lot blacktopped when he figured the cost per space and asked people to write their name in a space and pay the amount. Only problem was, some of those writing their name in the spaces closest to the buidling thought that space WAS THEIRS. Oh well, it was paid for in less than a montn. RetRev in Packerland.
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 7:23:59 PM
G. Campbell Morgan has helped me a great deal with verse 10.
The tenses are vital there, it seems. We often interpret verse 10 to say, "Whoever is faithful in a very little WILL BE faithful also in much." That is not what it says. It says "Whoever is faithful in a very little IS faithful also in much." Campbell's point is that those who are faithful in "a very little" (which he interprets as temporal wealth) will be faithful because he is already faithful in "much" (eternal wealth). The earthly does not so much prepare us for the eternal, but the eternal manifests itself in the earthly.
Just a thought.
JG in WI
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:49:03 PM
JG in WI: I don't quite get what you are saying (or rather, what Cambell Morgan was saying). Often, of course, the eternal manifests itself in the earthly, but I don't see the connection to this parable.
I have to agree with RetRev and Auggie: The parable has shown that the shrewd manager has provided for himself and ensured his welcome in many homes despite his dishonesty; likewise, Jesus has provided for us and ensured our welcome in our heavenly home.
Now all I have to do is put that down into a sermon.
That's the hard part.
Dan in AK
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:51:21 PM
Oh, forgot to finish the thought:
But the children of this world are much better at providing for themselves and ensuring for their needs than the children of the light seem to be. Thus we need Jesus who intercedes on our behalf, and, despite our dishonesty (read that "sins") provides for us.
Dan in AK
Date: 9/13/2004
Time: 11:54:01 PM
One last thing, and this is a cry for HELP!
I also do a 30-minute hymn service at a local retirement/nursing home. Any idea how I can use this Gospel to reach these people?
Dan in AK
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 5:07:33 AM
Dan in AR Does a preacher, worship leader, etc. always have to be able to perfectly identify with those they've been called to lead in worship, or will the Holy Spirit make the connection?
Shalom
bammamma
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 5:25:24 AM
Might I suggest that the way we deal with this parable begins with an honest acknowledgement that it is a difficult story (perhaps the most difficult in the Gospels). It may be more honest to be up front with our congregations and tell them that there are various approaches to this text. Rather than hammering home our own view as 'the' interpretation, it may be worthwhile exploring the various options (ie - Derrett). I've always avoided this text because of its complexity and all of the questions it raises which do not have obvious, textual answers. I've decided I need to grab the nettle. . .after all, it is scripture. Some musings on a Tuesday from a Canadian in Scotland.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 6:10:58 AM
Could it be that the key to this passage and parable are found in verse 15 - (Luke 16:15 NIV) He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.
Maybe the parable is intended to shock us about the way an unjust manager handled the master's assets. Even greater shock is realized when we learn the master's reaction to the manager's ruse. Clearly the master was not as concerned about return on monetary investment as we would be.
When the manager shifted the emphasis of his dealings from profits to people, the master was more pleased.
This one's a toughie!
Pastor Dave Harrison, AR
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 6:23:30 AM
So glad I am not the only one having a "say what?!" time with this text! Middle of the night still small voice moment for me has me on the following track:
The rich man: How did this man get rich? How did people in first century Palestine get wealthy? Of course by exploiting the poor and exploiting the land. Short man Zacheus comes to mind. Tax collectors come to mind. The Roman empire comes to mind.
The manager begins the story by cooking the books most likely for his own gain alone. When he gets fired, he continues cooking the books but this time not for his own benefit but to help someone else ... and to gain friends. For his future in his not gainfully employed status, RELATIONSHIP is everything.
The rich man does commend the manager shrewdness because the rich man himself is a dishonest "shrewdy" (made-up-word ... sorry: english problems!). It takes one to recognize another! Infact the rich man actually ADMIRES the dishonest manager because he proves himself to be in the up-and-coming league of makers and shakers.
That seems to be the story. To me at least. Or may be not. Maybe the still small voice in the middle of my night was just me thinkingatthetopofmyhead
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 6:31:31 AM
PS One place for the freedom I now experience in interpretting this parable is freedom from trying to figure "who is who". ie. God = rich man. Poor human sinners = dishonest manager. etc.
This story is not about God. This story is an anthropology/sociology lesson by Jesus to his followers who perhaps are so naive in matters of "the world".
Could be Jesus is trying to explain the world and its immoral life that rewards and admires getting rich at all costs. Could be Jesus is saying: that's the way they do it. You cant do it that way and my way too. You gotta choose.
But then again, may be I have totally missed the point and i am thinkingatthetopofmyhead again
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 7:45:26 AM
When I was an account receivable analyst, the person in Accounting was careless when she posted the checks from clients. As I was the person researching accounts, I found her errors. I would not trust this person to work for me. I finally kept a copy of each of her errors for a month and turned them in to the Credit Manager, a stack of of some thirty errors. Only then did the Accounting Manager do something about the careless woman and her poor work habits. She could have asked me and I would have helped her. The next person in that job did check with me when she had a question and the mis-posted checks dropped to zero. Truly, when a person is faithful with little things they will be faithful with greater things. Sue in EOhio
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 8:34:07 AM
ok, i'm gonna try...
what are we willing to do to save ourselves from the problems of this world? if jesus is being sarcastic in this parable then perhaps what he is talking about is the lenghts to which a person is willing to go to cover his/her ass. to escape the "sins" of this world (money/wealth) the steward was willing to act dishonestly to save himself.
so what about the children of the light?
16:8 And his master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the children of this age are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than are the children of light.
are we also to act shrewdly, but in a new way? not to cover our collective butts, but to serve God?
in other words: what are we willing to do for money vs what are we willing to do for God?
do i have something or am i still freaking clueless?
as a side note: i am "back from vacation." got quite a bit accomplished, but i'm still far from being done with the house specifically the basement. pbg, how is it going with your situation? i was thinking about you.
God's peace, christine at the shore
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 9:04:56 AM
pardon me as I ramble- I, too, am so confused by this that I just want to avoid this text all together- and I would get away with it,not one in my congregation would ask a question- which made me think; avoiding the difficult part of discipleship and desiring the glory was the MO of most of His follwers- they expected to get rewarded and to become one of the leaders of the new earth order- the oppressed would become the new oppressors- not unlike what the church became in the middle ages--- OK, Jesus says- you want to play the human game, go right ahead, with all the human rules and you will become successful- but your rewards will be earthly only-take the cheap path- get the cheap reward---that is why the dishonest boss( I suppose) was impressed by the dishonest manager--- but the new order-- Jesus grace and mission was of another kind--- it is not earthy reward and it does not follow earthly logic-if you are to follow Jesus, we need to put aside preconceptions of what success is.. just rambling
Peanut Butter
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 9:37:24 AM
Hard to make sense of this passage without verses 14& 15: 14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.
We all need reminders about the role of money in our lives. But this passage is attacking the Pharisees for squandering the gifts of God. I can not claim to understand this passage completely, if I ever fully understand any than certainly less so with this one. Yet I have begun to think in light of these concluding verses, that Jesus is speaking much more literally in his parable than the selected text may lead us to believe.
What is highly valued among men – how to cover your own butt, scheme your way out of trouble, put someone in an awkward position so as to protect yourself – these skills, this way of thinking, is repulsive to God. God desires for people to live honestly, sincerely, owning up to their faults and accepting the consequences.
Our wisdom is foolishness to the world, the children of this age, so a child of God might have simply owned up to his fault and taken the punishment and turned to God to hold his future, whereas the worldly wise servant impressed his master with his devious actions.
Craiger
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 10:18:34 AM
Just to add, I'm on board with Tom in TN(USA), Coho (Midway City) and GEC in Michigan. Thanks all! Craiger
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 10:27:38 AM
I enjoy using The Message Bible, especially when, as in the case of this scripture, I just don't feel like I get it. Click on this link and I THINK you'll go to these verses in The Message. I found it helpful. Just as I find all of your ideas and comments helpful. Pastor Janel in ND http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?new=1&word=Luke+16%3A1-13§ion=2&version=msg&showtools=1&language=en
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:04:28 AM
I really appreciate Mike Hoy's piece. It discusses the truth and the punch of the passage that is difficult to swallow, but balances it with giving the message of hope. Jesus has paid the debt for us. I agree that this is a wonderful stewardship passage, not just about how much money we have squandered, but how faithful have we been with what we have been given?
Susan in Wa.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:16:51 AM
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Two rights make ...
an airplane! nyuk nyuk nyuck ... (couldn't resist)
Sally in GA
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:23:26 AM
gosh, I'm with the rest of y'all ... this is a toughie! And I think we do this pericope a disservice if we put it into a "this is what it means" framework. The gospel is confusing to us sometimes, too.
Recently in my head are several articles on "The Atonement" from the latest issue of "The Circuit Rider," a periodical for UM clergy. Therefore, since I've been reading these the last several days, "atonement" comes to mind as what these sayings of Jesus could be an allegory for (ok, grammar police - that's a dangling participle, but I'm too lazy to go rewrite the sentence). It's a kind of reduction in debt ... Granted, it's for one's own benefit (so the manager can have some friends once he's fired - and therefore a network on which to rely).
I haven't read "The Message" version yet, but ... something about this intrigues me enough to want to preach it. It goes AGAINST everything we've been taught - and that "reality" shows are FOR.
Everything in me wants to explain it away. I don't think that's the best, though.
Sally in GA
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:25:10 AM
It almost seems as though Jesus is saying, by way of parable, that we can "work" God, as if we can manipulate God's grace.
last post, I promise... getting a late start and trying to catch up.
Sally
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:45:55 AM
Revjaw, I love your question about whether we give up to easily to ensure our future. Wow, that is right where I am with my congregation. We do need to be shrewd and creative, and we need to be faithful with the little things.
Susan in Wa.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:59:18 AM
Pastor Janel,
Thanks for the "Message" reference, it's really helpful, especially the paragraph that starts "Now here's a surprise... Streetwise people are smarter in this regard than law-abiding citizens..."
Often when I find myself in one of those perennial church kerfluffles I bemoan the fact that being "Streetwise" was the course I must have slept through in seminary. How often we who think if everyone can just be reasonable and think good thoughts and love one another we'll get through this -- how often we are completely blindsided by our own naivete or lack of street sense.
This probably won't preach, but nevertheless some early-in-the-week musings.
--revwaf still ducking hurricanes in S. Florida (next on the horizon is "Jeanne". We may just end up keeping up the shutters all season. It gives the church a perpetual Christmas Eve midnight mass sort of feeling. :-) )
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:04:00 PM
I laughed out loud at Pastor Stinky's honest admission...having been there myself. I did find a marvelous interpretation of this passage on Sarah Dylan's Lectionary Blog ( find it thru the text this week site). Her view, which I find very persuasive, is that the actions of the unjust steward focus us on forgiveness and forgiving. While we may want to pass negative judgment on the steward's forgiving of debts to save his own _ _ _ with the boss, in actuality, the forgiveness is to be appreciated. In fact, no matter the motivation or reason, forgiving is a good thing, and not to be judged. It is a case where the the end justifies the means in reverse. The parable tells us to forgive - even if we are dong it for suspect reasons - to make ourselves look good, to gain some perceived advantage, to win friends and influence people, to CYA - the forgiveness will serve God and God's will and kingdom. If the rich nations (that's us folks) forgave the debts of poor nations and we squandered our wealth forgiving debt and relieving suffering just to gain friends or in the hope of pleasing God who will ask us for an accounting of our stewardship, then we might very well unlock a kind of human potential and divine grace that would render the fear (myth) of scarcity and glory of material wealth absurd and obsolete. So, whatever your motivation, forgive. It may help us serve God instead of whatever we have been serving. ... still working thru the passage,... Jim in CT.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:04:11 PM
I laughed out loud at Pastor Stinky's honest admission...having been there myself. I did find a marvelous interpretation of this passage on Sarah Dylan's Lectionary Blog ( find it thru the text this week site). Her view, which I find very persuasive, is that the actions of the unjust steward focus us on forgiveness and forgiving. While we may want to pass negative judgment on the steward's forgiving of debts to save his own _ _ _ with the boss, in actuality, the forgiveness is to be appreciated. In fact, no matter the motivation or reason, forgiving is a good thing, and not to be judged. It is a case where the the end justifies the means in reverse. The parable tells us to forgive - even if we are dong it for suspect reasons - to make ourselves look good, to gain some perceived advantage, to win friends and influence people, to CYA - the forgiveness will serve God and God's will and kingdom. If the rich nations (that's us folks) forgave the debts of poor nations and we squandered our wealth forgiving debt and relieving suffering just to gain friends or in the hope of pleasing God who will ask us for an accounting of our stewardship, then we might very well unlock a kind of human potential and divine grace that would render the fear (myth) of scarcity and glory of material wealth absurd and obsolete. So, whatever your motivation, forgive. It may help us serve God instead of whatever we have been serving. ... still working thru the passage,... Jim in CT.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:04:41 PM
I laughed out loud at Pastor Stinky's honest admission...having been there myself. I did find a marvelous interpretation of this passage on Sarah Dylan's Lectionary Blog ( find it thru the text this week site). Her view, which I find very persuasive, is that the actions of the unjust steward focus us on forgiveness and forgiving. While we may want to pass negative judgment on the steward's forgiving of debts to save his own _ _ _ with the boss, in actuality, the forgiveness is to be appreciated. In fact, no matter the motivation or reason, forgiving is a good thing, and not to be judged. It is a case where the the end justifies the means in reverse. The parable tells us to forgive - even if we are dong it for suspect reasons - to make ourselves look good, to gain some perceived advantage, to win friends and influence people, to CYA - the forgiveness will serve God and God's will and kingdom. If the rich nations (that's us folks) forgave the debts of poor nations and we squandered our wealth forgiving debt and relieving suffering just to gain friends or in the hope of pleasing God who will ask us for an accounting of our stewardship, then we might very well unlock a kind of human potential and divine grace that would render the fear (myth) of scarcity and glory of material wealth absurd and obsolete. So, whatever your motivation, forgive. It may help us serve God instead of whatever we have been serving. ... still working thru the passage,... Jim in CT.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:05:41 PM
oops, I didn't mean to post 3 times, really. sorry. JIm in CT
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:45:59 PM
Hmmm.... The manager is fired, but then continues to work for the master? Was he fired or not? Confused Pastor
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:54:07 PM
Dr. Phil McGraw has a favorite phrase he presents to people whose lives are a shambles: "If you were my life manager, I'd fire you".
What if we looked at this by substituting "life" for "property" or "wealth" in this parable? We have not used our lives in the way God intended us to use them when he gave them to us, we have squandered life and resources. We will one day be asked to give an accounting, and we will come up short. We realize we need to do something because we are going to be fired as our own life manager and stewards of God's world. We make a mad dash to fix things the best we can, but we cannot make up the deficit. We are not our own saviors. We must find somebody else to take care of us. We turn to people, jobs, traditions and rituals (in the case of the Pharisees) and other "comforts" to take care of us in our need, but none can do the job 100%. They get us by, but are not the final answer. In the end, they too will fail us, and only the mercy and grace of God will be there for us in the end. It's what we needed to rely on in the first place, rather than trying to take everything into our own hands.
The Pharisees and Temple leaders thought they were being GREAT managers of God's law and keeping things just fine for God. They fell short, and would not be able to justify themselves about it. They were uncharitable, stiff-necked and judgmental. So, when God had enough of this, they would appeal to the Jewish nation to support them and keep them well, reminding them that they (and their adherence to the Law) had preserved Israel's faith in the midst of all the paganism around them. Shrewd and resourceful. But in the end, that popular support would be knocked out from underneath them, and they would have nothing to rely on except that God is indeed merciful.
I hear Sally in Ga. loud and clear that we can't proclaim "this is what this parable means", but this is what I see, and I offer it with all understanding that I can be way off base.
KHC
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 1:59:32 PM
I've said it before i will say it again: if all else fails preach the psalm. Pastor Keg
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 2:04:10 PM
Hi, gang! Haven't been around for a few weeks because I had surgery on my right shoulder and haven't been able to type (or do much else). But recover has progressed to where I'm back at work and back at the keyboard.
Last night was our governing board meeting and, as usual, the discussions mostly had to do with spending money -- staying within budget, making extraordinary expenditures for unbudget emergencies (crumbling plaster on an outside wall, two accidentally broken stained glass windows, etc.) And, of course, we began the annual talk of budgeting and fund raising for the next fiscal year....
So I read this text (and the related lessons in both the RCL and the Episcopal lectionaries) and thought, "This just might be a good time to start mentioning stewardship in the preaching." After all, these are lessons about property, stewardship, faithfulness, etc.
Has anyone else given much thought to a stewardship focus for this week's sermon?
Blessings, Eric in OH
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 2:43:34 PM
How do we manage the wealth of the kingdom? The money lovers know how to handle their power effectively, what do we do with the power that comes to us from Jesus? Are we squandering that power, not to be trusted with it? How can we use the power in Jesus name to big-up God, the boss!
DP - UK
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 3:20:50 PM
KCH
BINGO! That makes sense and goes with everything else Jesus has been saying to the Pharrisees.
DrD.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 3:59:26 PM
I'm with Eric regarding stewardship. This is our Sunday to focus on stewardship of time and talents - the actual pledge drive comes later in November! So I'm using the Luke passage to preach about "Be clear about who you're serving." It seems to me that one of the main thoughts of the passage is that of focusing on how we serve and in whose name we do it, in the small and large events of our lives. And maybe that God uses all of us, warts and all, whatever we do, to serve his kingdom. But it's early yet and there are still a lot of kinks to work out - and I promised to leave 10 minutes at the end of each service for people to have an opportunity to give their time and talents to the congregation in this new program year . . . all done "decently and in order" as good Presbyterians, of course!
Great thoughts, everybody!
Rev PBC in AK
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 3:59:34 PM
I'm with Eric regarding stewardship. This is our Sunday to focus on stewardship of time and talents - the actual pledge drive comes later in November! So I'm using the Luke passage to preach about "Be clear about who you're serving." It seems to me that one of the main thoughts of the passage is that of focusing on how we serve and in whose name we do it, in the small and large events of our lives. And maybe that God uses all of us, warts and all, whatever we do, to serve his kingdom. But it's early yet and there are still a lot of kinks to work out - and I promised to leave 10 minutes at the end of each service for people to have an opportunity to give their time and talents to the congregation in this new program year . . . all done "decently and in order" as good Presbyterians, of course!
Great thoughts, everybody!
Rev PBC in AK
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 4:19:47 PM
This might work as an illustration for someone.
Oprah Winfrey's Harpo Productions makes a huge profit every year, and Uncle Sam wants his cut of it. A significant amount, to be sure. Oprah is finding ways to give away the wealth, often to people who truly need it. Yesterday, Oprah gave away a $28,000 car to EACH of the 275+ people in the studio audience, each one having been screened as a person in desperate need of a car. Oprah also gave a scholarship and wardrobe and home to a homeless young woman, and some other things. The day's gifts totaled somewhere in the vicinity of $8 million. Uncle Sam now gets "cheated" out of his portion of that $8 million given to charity, but is he complaining? Probably not. He's probably saying "Good thinking, Oprah. Help those who need it and I'll make do with whatever does come my way."
The workers who owed rent were in dire straits. The manager knew what he was going to owe the master but allowed some of it to take care of the needs of those people. The workers won, the manager won, and the Master was only cheated out of a portion, not everything. In the end, he saw the ingenuity of it all, and did just fine with what he ended up receiving.
We are to do good works. Giving away even the Master's (or Uncle Sam's) funds to do that in the end will win us accolades - or at least respect from the God who told us to do good works and to treasure kindness over wealth, charity over retirement funds, love over rigid lawkeeping.
KHC
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 4:59:32 PM
Confused Pastor,
You asked, "Hmmm.... The manager is fired, but then continues to work for the master? Was he fired or not?"
That's the kicker which lead me to my hypothesis. The Master didn't terminate his managerial position immediately (perhaps waiting for his repentance), and he recognized that opportunity (v.4b). But he took that opportunity to interface with the poor debtors as if he is still employed by the rich master (and have the power to reduce debt). Many of the pharisee back then and their modern counterparts no doubt would keep up this charade for as long as they could.
The cliffhanger would play out when the poor debtors eventually settle the new balance with the master. What will happen then? Did they know early on and will be taken as accomplice to the manager's crime? Or they will be shocked that they were being cheated by a crook that had no power to reduce debt? Would they resent for showing gratefulness to the manager?
I don't know how would the master settle the matter with the debtors but from v.8 and 9, it seems to me that they are ending up in the same grouping as the manager. (Sorry for my imposing a non-universalist view on this, but if the debtors were smart and honest, they should question whether or not the manager could reduce the debt or not too).
Coho.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 5:05:13 PM
WOW ! You guys are good! I came to this site confused and desparate, now I am still somewhat confused but excited about preaching this text. One thought - thank goodness this isn't the only teaching we have of Jesus! Blessings and gratitude LGB
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 7:07:58 PM
Spiritualizing this text can very very dangerous and highly unflattering for our faith. Hope we dont pull off all its teeth and make it so heavenly minded it is no earthly good. Franz
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 7:50:14 PM
I came in confused too...but thanks for your help..."You're Fired!" Donald trump is the master...Firing a possible appentice...Donald has business trouble now too.
Life imitates art
Clerically Blonde in Ohio
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 8:04:11 PM
I am so, so grateful for all your posts. Good to have you back, Eric.
I'm thinking about something like this for a sermon opening: "The Admirable Qualities of Kenneth Lay" (or Conrad Black, for Canadians). Maybe that would preserve some of the shock of the original telling! You can go on to list such qualities as intelligence, ambition, determination, skills at relationship-building... all the qualities that I think that Jesus is prodding his disciples about.
The way I read this, the gist of this text is like this: "If these clowns [children of this age] can be so active and motivated to use their gifts toward such little self-interested goals, how much more power will God give you toward achieving the goals of the kingdom?"
One of the things I hear Jesus saying is, "You can take a page out of the management books, but don't swallow the whole thing. As disciples, your goals are different [you cannot serve God and mammon]. Remember: it's not about money, it's not about power, its about God."
Often, we disciples excuse ourselves from being shrewd, determined, skilled at relationship-building in the service of Jesus. We say to ourselves, "No, we'll just be quiet together for a while and then go away." That is not the Spirit of Pentecost, which drove the disciples into the streets and into the world, using the best of their intellects, passion, determination, relationship-building skills for proclamation.
Whaddya think?
LF
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 8:11:08 PM
The best sense of this parable for me now, is that the manager is like Jacob, Tricky and shrewd. If people in the world understand how to get ahead by the world's rules and know how to use wealth to gain protection and help, why can't God's people also understand the rules of the kingdom of God and use kingdom rules to get ahead in godly ways. Somehow God's people try to be "nice" and let God take care of things that we should be doing.
Jacob was not above telling outright lies to make Esau consider him more favorably. Yet Jacob was important to God's plan. Perhaps those of us who are blinded by the world rules of success can't see the worth of wasting our wealth on helping people who can't return our help. We are supposed to just help them anyway because God wants us to love them.
If we are going to help people see the power of Jesus to bring power into our lives somehow we have to get out of the box of "American" success. I feel that we hoard instead of forgive and give. Maybe we are the debtors and need the forgiveness so we can go on to do good ministry.
Hard parable, I like many of the comments.
revpatmo
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 10:20:07 PM
LF,
Your angle is certainly preachable, go for it. I am not preaching this week, so my view is only my personal application, yours is a much broader and applicable scope.
Coho.
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 10:52:52 PM
At first glance of this text several weeks ago when I was blitzing on sermon themes and titles my first thought was "It doesn't add up!" Honestly (pun intended). So apply this logic to the text, this one and in previous weeks, what adds up in the gospel? It doesn't. God is nuts (in a Godly manner). Since when does anyone get what they are owed in the spirit of grace? Does the very thing we preach have to make sense (or is that cents?) Preach the rediculously non-cents of the grace of the good news. Stop trying to make everything add up and you might not only get by in this world, but better yet in one to come (tomorrow?) Could it be, if you do well with a little grace you will do much better with more? If you can't handle a little grace and things that don't make sense, then good luck doing it with more.
Spiritualizing the text? Heck why not? That is why it is so great, it doesn't always make cents. Just some early thoughts.
OMG
Date: 9/14/2004
Time: 11:26:30 PM
Franz: requesting that you to email me at kinyaphd@yahoo.com Storyteller
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 6:08:54 AM
no one can serve two masters: The sermon at Central this week is titled:"The Second Serving" - a way of saying, 'serve God first!' (Galveston Teacher)
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 6:18:41 AM
To OMG: Your observation that "God is nuts (in a Godly manner) reminds me of this story about Nasruddin, a Persian wise man:
Nasruddin was walking through the street with a bag of candy. A group of children followed him, pleading with him to share. Nasruddin thought about it and asked the children, "How do you want me to give the candy: the way humans would do it, or the way God would do it?" The children shouted, "Give the way God gives! Give the way God gives!" So Nasruddin gave one child five candies, another child one candy, another ten candies, another two...
Humans would have given each child one candy, to be fair. The way God gives is possibly "nuts" to us!
LF
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 6:50:27 AM
I have to admit that I find this text hard. I have a tough time finding what exactly is the good news here. I found a couple of sites that really do show the gospel in this text. For all those who think this is just a wacky parable click on these and they'll show you the gospel. I'm finding a sermon here that will preach. The sites are:
http://www.preachingpeace.org/proper20.htm
http://www.sarahlaughed.net/lectionary-blog.html
Shalom: Tom in Ontario
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 7:09:13 AM
I'm struck time and again by verse 12. It seems to me that this is the definition of the community of Christ...we must be faithful with what is one anothers, that is, we must be faithful with each other because none of us lives unto her/him self. If you want respect, caring, concern, help,love who will give it to you if you have not first given these things to others.
I'm not sure if this is enough to do an entire sermon on, but it's the beginning of my thought process.
PBG in IL
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 7:35:22 AM
Good day friends. I have a couple of quick random thoughts:
1) the film Schindler's List may have some interesting connections to the text. Oscar Schindler was a man taking advantage of a situation....it eventually leads him to redemption. His shrewd work with the Nazis saved a lot of lives. Just a thought.
2) Sermon Title, "God bless the con-man????"
I'm a young minister and this site has really helped me in my first few weeks of the Pastorate. Thank you!
Sterlsev in Virginia
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 8:04:25 AM
i love how things change on this site. we start with no clue and then slowly watch as the holy spirit works in this virtual community. (proof positive that God indeed is nuts.)
i love the oprah example. think i'll use it as an illustration on sunday.
God's peace, christine at the shore
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 8:38:56 AM
KHC's Oprah illustration is a good one. She is a generous woman who puts her money where her mouth is, and uses her celebrity for the good of humankind. I admire her deeply. One correction, though ... Pontiac donated the cars; Oprah did not purchase them.
Still, the illustration works. how many people are in her audience? like 200? A 200-car giveaway! Wow! Not bad for a day's work!
I also like whoever mentioned the Dr. Phil quote, "If you were my life manager, I'd fire you" (well, often, he says, "I'd fire your ass," but that might be too scandalous to say verbatim from the pulpit).
I think I may call mine "Managing Your Life." Now if I can only preach it without being the pot calling the kettle ... well, you know!
KHC is hot this week! *tssss* (that's supposed to be a sizzle sound).
Sally in GA
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 8:39:44 AM
OOPS! One more
Welcome back, Eric!!! I hope your shoulder heals quickly - and just as it should.
Sally
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 8:53:14 AM
The Oprah illustration is good, but as she saves on her taxes by giving away, the recipients need to pay income tax on what they receive. Of course, being in a smaller tax bracket, they probably don't pay as much, but the poor recipients end up paying the taxes instead of the rich givers. Something's wierd about our tax system.
Michelle
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 8:56:31 AM
Clerically Blonde:
Donald Trump's show is art???
;-)
Actually, his businesses have been in and out of trouble the whole time. I read something about him several years ago - and what motivates him is less the money (though he does enjoy that) than it is the PURSUIT, the "Art of the Deal," or the challenge and risk of it all. It's the same phenomenon that causes people to jump out of perfectly good airplanes.
God bless - and thanks for the contemporary analogy.
Sally
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 9:08:05 AM
Could the 'dishonest wealth' be our own salvation? I cannot earn my place in the kingdom but could only get it by having someone else nailed to a cross. I didn't do the heavy lifting or suffering, but I'll take it... steal it... accept it... but I did not earn it.
And now, as a pastor, I run around to everyone I meet and offer it to them! "Are you weighed down with sin? Here, eliminate that debt you owe God... throw it on the back of this poor guy on the cross and you too will be saved like me! Accept Jesus in your heart and you too will gain an eternal home!"
Wow... what a deal!
TB in MN
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 9:30:05 AM
As noted by many, this is a tough one. But I'm trying to work with it, as well. It seems to me that there is a lot of latitude for interpretation of this parable so I'm heading in a direction that may be a bit shakey -- but lacking other sure direction I hope it's one that is at least acceptable to God!
I see a series of broken relationships in this parable -- from the relationship between the rich man and his manager, to the relationship between the "faithful" who cling to serving their own needs and the God who asks for accountability from the "faithful." There is a need here for healing in these relationships so that trust can be restored, but that healing cannot happen without the accountability that God desires from us.
I may tie in the Jeremiah reading with this, as well. I'm still working out the details of this concept, but the working title is "Accountable Healing." Any thoughts?
Robbie in Kansas
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 9:37:37 AM
I'm not sure who benefitted the most from the Oprah giveaway. She got quite a high from that one. Wonder what is her role in Societal Emotional Process? (me and my systems thinking). I have my own thoughts, since I consider myself in the same role(wayyy smaller scale) I want to be careful of those "highs" for myself. I think of all those letters and emails going to Oprah asking her to help get persons out of situations. Some energies could go toward a different avenue. Just some further thoughts.
shalom
bammamma
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 10:26:49 AM
This is a great discussion!
So far, it seems like there is a consensus on the text: that the "shrewdness" of the manager is something we could learn from.
And then there are two diversed angles beyond that agreement: 1) The manager is a good guy, we should follow his lead; and 2) The manager is a bad guy, even though we could learn from his "shrewdness".
As my initial devotional on this matter indicated, I am with the later camp.
But the discussion were so interesting, that I could not leave this text alone (even though I am not preaching this week - Thank God). So I decided to break out the Greek text and see if I was to harshed on the manager or not. Here's some random things I pick up...
1) *JOSH* was mistaken when he thought that "The translator's got the ["Dishonest wealth"] wrong. In Greek, it is "mamona"--mammon. I just looked in Bauer and they offer two translations "wealth" or "property." "Dishonest wealth" adds a spin that isn't in the text..." He just didn't see the "tes adikias" following the "mamona", as well as the manager "oikonomon" everywhere. The word "adikia" often translated "unrighteousness", "iniquity", "unjust", or "wrong" once to denote injustice (of a judge), unrighteousness (of heart and life) or a deed violating law and justice, (act of unrighteousness) [Strong]. Kittel made interesting observation of the Targum usage of the phrase "mamona tes adikias" as "mamona of iniquity", a reference "to the tax-gatherers of the time who had amassed their fortunes by lying and trickery.? Such a reference hardly fits the context of Lk. 16, but possibly a saying originally addressed to the publicans is here given a wider application." (I forgot about "all the tax collectors and sinners were coming near to listen to him" in Luke 15:1)
2) The context of this parable was linked to the previous parable, the "Then" in the beginning of 16:1 is also evident in the Gk text. And so, I think Jesus is using this parable to addressing his disciples, with the pharisee in view. (Hey, you could learn some thing from them, even though you are not like them).
3) What we should learn here is the "shrewdness" (Gk "phronimos": prudent/wise/thoughtful with an emphasis on quick and correct perceptions). It is true that the "children of this age" is much more effective when it comes to making swift calculated decision compare to all of us.
Just think of the net effects of the Kingdom if we were running the Kingdom's business with the same discipline and focus on the "bottom line". Only the bottom line here is the people who welcome us at their eternal dwelling places.
4) Verse 8 gave us a lot of problem. First the "praise" from the master. How could He praise the manager? Nolland, J. observed, "there is something that even the one swindled can admire about this scoundrel. Even when he had been found out in his crime and his number was clearly up, this fellow in his shrewdness could find a way to swindle his master yet again right under the master’s nose and in such a way that the master, even though on the spot and alerted to the steward’s ways, could do nothing to restore the situation. However grudgingly given, a recognition of the cleverness of this fellow is not out of place (Heininger, Sondergutgleichnisse, 168, draws attention to the approval given to the rascal slave in ancient comedy)." [Word Biblical Commentary]
In addition, the continue presence of the qualifier "dishonest" (lit. "of unrighteousness") associate to the manager "stands against those interpretations that see the reduction of debts in a positive light (the steward has not stopped being unrighteous)." [WBC]
5) In verse 9 and following we have the application of the parable. The "shrewdness" action should be applied by us in life and ministry, especially in the use of money. If we have money and power, use it to lift up the poor and they will welcome you to their eternal dwelling places. Pursue your MBA, or advance training in Psychology and Sociology, and use it refine our methods to reach the lost; and they will welcome you to their eternal dwelling places.
Thanks to all of you who traveling together down this tough road, this parable is preachable after all...
Coho, Midway City.
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 11:51:33 AM
Dan in AK
I struggled to see the connection myself - but now I think I do.
(Again, credit where it's due, much of this is from Morgan and a bit from Barclay).
The dishonest manager used dishonest means to get himself invited into TEMPORARY homes - homes that have no lasting value. As far as the manager was concerned (and the Pharisees as well, see v. 14), money was a means to life-long comfort.
But Jesus tells us to use wealth of this world (I don't like the translation here, "dishonest wealth;" the more correct translation is "mammon of unrighteousness" and NIV translates it as "worldly wealth") to generate eternal benefit - a welcome into eternal homes rather than temprary ones. The reason being that wealth will fail when you face eternity (translated here, "when it is gone," but it is more literally "when it fails). You can, however, take this temporary wealth with you into eternal dwellings. This has to come as a kick to the Pharisees who were the rabbis of the day. Barclay writes, "The Rabbis had a saying, 'The rich help the poor in this world, but the poor help the rich in the world to come.'" When our money is used to help mankind, it has eternal benefit and welcomes us into eternal homes.
Whoever is faithful in a very little (i.e., uses the "very little" of money faithfully, for eternal benefit) is faithful also in much (i.e., is faithful in all things that are eternal).
A couple contacted a pastor for marital counseling. He agreed to this but added, "Bring your checkbook." They replied, "Oh, I didn't know you charged for counseling." He answered, "I don't - but what your check register says will tell me a lot about your marriage. Bring those credit card statements too."
JG in WI
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 11:59:19 AM
Just an additional note - I agree with Coho that the thing to emulate in the manager is his shrewdness, not his particular actions. We can admire someone's ingenuity, just as one might not particularly want to emulate the person's actions. The example I plan to use for this is "Batman" at Buckingham Palace. While it's not something I'd want to do, you've gotta admire his ingenuity.
Two news stories related to this ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3652502.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3654086.stm
JG in WI
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 12:54:43 PM
Hi Folks
Under the no one can serve two masters idea - ask yourself this. If you owed the money (or produce) and the manager offered you the deal, would you take it? On the Oprah example - her motivation is no doubt to help people while at the same time getting her ego stroked and her bank account filled. Doesn't this passage lead us to questions about our which is more important - our motivation or the result - or both? Just some questions bouncing around in my mind
KN in Ln
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 2:06:16 PM
You cant serve God and wealth but you can serve God WITH wealth. Storyteller
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 2:47:15 PM
FYI about Oprah's car giveaway.
I don't know how eachaudience member was selected so i can't say it was based on need. Some were.
The auto maker picked up ALL associated costs of the giveaway. The taxes, titles, shipping, manufacturing were all picked up by Pontiac. Oprah didn't buy 250 cars at market value. It was a trade off for an hour long infomercial on the G6.
This does not diminish Oprah's generosity...she probably would have paid for them all. She is shrewd. The rich know how to keep getting richer.
PC in GA
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 3:48:39 PM
bammamma,
once read that people who watch oprah are more inclined to be depressed than people who don't watch oprah.
makes sense in a weird way.
God's peace, christine at the shore
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 4:05:25 PM
Would you:
1) Lie to your spouse to protect your marriage?
2) Lie on a job application to land that great job?
3) Invite the despised boss out for dinner and the theatre if you thought it would cement a nice promotion?
4) Choose to turn a blind eye to some illegal or immoral thing going on because silence will keep your job secure and save a lot of trouble?
5) Rat on your accomplice solely to get a lighter prison sentence (turning state's evidence) or lie to stay out of jail completely?
Etc. The list is endless.
I'd sure think about it. Wrong as I know it is, I'd sure think about it.
Where are we deceptive to cover ourselves? How far would we really go to save our necks?
The Master knows we will do whatever works (another Dr. Philism) and while our thinking is flawed, he understands we did the best we could with the hole we are standing in.
One thing about the Manager. At least he did something. I had a boss once who used to say to the whole staff "Do something, even if it's wrong". The Manager could have turned heel and fled from the whole mess. But he stayed and did something. That is to his credit.
KHC
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 5:32:06 PM
Another reflection on the Oprah episode. I think it is good to remember, she started off poor. A humble beginning. She does give freely, which I think she would have done even if she was not making millions. I don't know if her theology is the direction God has guided me, but what she does to me is according to her own principles. She gets satisfied through freely giving.
Shalom
bammamma
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 7:50:13 PM
Hello All,
Just got back from my very first trip to NYC...
Street bargains galore... prices varied depending on the customer's patience. If you walk away, the price goes down. It was interesting.
Went to McDonald's for supper tonight... drove through... was given 25 cents too much change, so I gave it to the second window... saying I think he gave me too much change at the first window.
I titled my sermon: "What do I Owe?"
I've included this as a benediction in the "prayer" files on the DPS...
Jesus said, "And if you have not been faithful with what belongs to another, who will give you what is your own?" This is close to loving your neighbor as one loves oneself. We are called to both love others and ourselves. What we owe others is what we owe ourselves, and what we owe ourselves is our love for God each day. We go forth to share that love in everyway.
Enjoy... and preach the word...
pulpitt in nd
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 9:09:07 PM
I think this parable is difficult because we get caught up in trying to offer our folks good advice, rather than good news. It is good advice to be shrewd, to think outside the box, to do what we have the power to do, etc. -- but the focus is still on ourselves, rather than God. So what's the good news?
A person who had been given a gift and responsibility (Law and Covenant) wasn't doing all he/she could have with it, squandering the gift and the relationship. There are consequences for the squandering/sin/broken relationship, and the one who was chosen is let go, to become one of the "not chosen." There is no hope of making things right within the Law (our debt of sin is too great), so a way other than the Law has to be found -- and that way is mercy shown to others (particularly the "not chosen"!), grace made real and tangible.
Now, says Jesus, let us praise the one who understands that new life is not found in the Law, but in grace and mercy. This is the treasure of heaven, the wealth we do not earn, so spend it faithfully, in ways both great and small. After all, which would you rather serve -- the Law that condemns you or the gracious God who saves you?
On the front side of the sermon we will be singing Charles Wesley's "Depth of Mercy" and after the sermon we will rejoice with "His Eye Is On The Sparrow." We will move from the cost of mercy to the value of mercy!
OLAS
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 9:17:06 PM
Sally, Off the subject, but is not "the pursuit (i.e., the love of money) the root of all evil"?
Hmmmm, maybe its not so off the subject.
AK Dan
Date: 9/15/2004
Time: 10:21:08 PM
JG in WI So, what you're(Campbell) saying is that, although worldly wealth will fail us [because it can't be taken with us and someone else will end up with it (as in Matt. 6:19 et seq. or Luke 12:16 et seq.)], we should use that worldly wealth to "store up treasures in heaven" by using that worldly wealth to help others. ???
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 6:42:05 AM
I have entitled my sermon "Excerpts from the Evening News"
Both the Gospel and the Jeremiah passages sound to me not much different than what we hear day in and day out on the evening news.
1 Timothy 2:1-7 sounds like a great call to intercessory prayer. I am hoping that by going through this passage in an expository fashion I can share with the congregation the importance and a "how-to" model of how to pray as an intercessor for our world (whatever phere of influence in which we are involved)
Pastor Dave in BC Canada, eh!
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 6:49:48 AM
I have entitled my sermon "Excerpts from the Evening News"
Both the Gospel and the Jeremiah passages sound to me not much different than what we hear day in and day out on the evening news.
1 Timothy 2:1-7 sounds like a great call to intercessory prayer. I am hoping that by going through this passage in an expository fashion I can share with the congregation the importance and a "how-to" model of how to pray as an intercessor for our world (whatever phere of influence in which we are involved)
Pastor Dave in BC Canada, eh!
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 7:26:57 AM
Dan in AK
That's what I'm seeing at the moment ... but I'm writing tonight. We'll see what the Spirit says.
JG in WI
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 8:43:25 AM
KHC asks "when are we deceptive to cover ourselves?"
I hate this about myself, but it's usually when people start rattling off a certain dogma - with the implication that this is the handle on the truth. I have found that it's wiser to keep my mouth shut than to try to dialog with them - because it usually gets me targeted as anti-something. However, by keeping my mouth shut, folks often think I agree with them, though sometimes I find their views abhorent.
So, we can look at this two ways, as I see it: #1) I'm saving my butt in order to keep the heat off, or #2) I'm choosing not to engage in a fruitless dialog in order to gain trust to patiently wait to put forth my opinion...
Truth is, it's not always clear to me which it is I'm doing.
Sally in GA
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 8:50:09 AM
AK Dan - far be it from me to stand up for Trump, but though what you say is true - for Trump, I do believe it's the risk-taking venture rather than the end result that is his driving force. Though, he does play up how much MONEY he has ... oh, well ... was just paraphrasing the article I read on him awhile back.
And, as to Oprah ... I admire her regardless of her theology (which, I admit, is rather - uh - creative). Seeing her help others knowing what she's endured ... and her ability to disclose of herself is a gift many depressed people find inspiration in.
Sally
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 8:54:02 AM
The man, according to this translation, was "squandering" the money. It didn't say he was embezzling it, or anything like that...
I think of "squandering" as wasting money. Spending it on frivolous, or poorly-thought-out purchases. Recall last week, in the monetary calculations necessary to build a tower. This guy wasn't calculating the cost ... so he got what he could from the debtors. Maybe it's the attitude of "well, something's better than nothing."
Sally
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 9:06:08 AM
The manager never confesses, does he? He scurries around to cover his tracks, but never admits to anything to the person he has wronged. Still he is dealt with mercifully. I love that. It's where I am theologically, the forgiveness of even unrepentant sinners, but it grates on many out there in the church world.
This is going to make an interesting
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 9:41:10 AM
When my sister died, her live-in significant other was her executor. She had considerable investments and a house that she willed equally to my sister, brother and me. Her bequest to the executor was her life insurance policy pay-out and nothing more. He never told us what we got, telling us she left everything to him. We had no reason to question him. He cashed in all her investments, squandered every cent of the money on remodeling the house to his liking, bought himself big TV's, professional musical instruments, paid for a housekeeper, etc. We did not find out about all this until he (the executor) died. We ended up with nothing but a poorly and only partially remodeled house that he hired questionable people to work on, and a zero bank account. My sister had left me about $100,000, and it was now gone because of this man. The "good guy" my sister loved became a dishonest steward and squanderer of the estate my sister had left for him to administer according to her wishes. He failed us all, mostly my sister. Oh, he was shrewd all right, dancing around the truth like pro. His lawyer kept this sqandering a big secret (which was the lawyer's job, I know) but the executor's thievery involved lots of people who were sworn to never tell me what was going on. Unlike the master in this parable, I am not commending him for his shrewdness. Forgive him? Sure, I can do that, with God's help and lots of time. Trust him again? Never, even if he were alive to deal with again. I'd never believe another word out of his mouth. He'd be kept from ever touching another cent of my money or property.
I'm not as merciful as I'd like to think. I could learn a lot from the master in this parable.
KHC
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 10:01:47 AM
I believe we should bear in mind that this parable and the accompanying material carry lots of freight. Perhaps, rather than searching for that "one key point," we should let all the material speak on its own terms. This approach is similar to the lengthy quote from Craddock someone posted (from the Interpretation commentary on Luke).
In other words, there are going to be different messages for different people in our congregations. Like different facets of a brilliant diamond, Jesus' teaching is so valuable and brilliant that it touches many lives.
All of our people need to hear that God desires us to be of the same single-minded devotion that the manager exhibited. Just as it was clear to everyone the manager was "only looking out for #1" --it should be clear to others around us that we are seeing after God's desires.
Some of our people will need to hear the message that "how you handle the 'small' things says a lot about how you will handle the 'big' things"--the reign of God is ushered in one decision, one action at a time. (And what is the real definition of "small things" and "big things"?)
Some of our people will need to hear the message that "you can't serve two masters." As the great theologian Bob Dylan once said in his raspy voice, "Yuu'v gotta se-e-r-r-ve sumBOdy." As with the manager, it will become clear pretty quickly just who you are serving.
All of us need to hear that there was another "manager" who took it upon himself to "settle accounts" and desires a "place of welcome." This "manager" knew that none of us could "pay our bills"--for "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," and "our righteousness amounts to no more than filthy rags." So this "manager" has "cooked the books" to settle the "accounts"--becoming in so doing the "only mediator between God and people, a person just like us" who desires only to live in us and "make his home" in our hearts. Now, what might seem like little things go a long way with God. We can never be rich enough, smart enough, old enough, good enough, or well enough to "pay the bill." But we can "give a cup of cold water in his name," share a significant % of our resources, speak out on behalf of those suffering injustice, "do it unto the least of these," and that will "lay up treasure in heaven." Let's bear in mind, when we pick a "master" to serve, we ought to choose one who will have our best interests at heart. Who else would we serve but God, and God alone.
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 10:07:17 AM
previous quote from
TK in OK
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 10:20:16 AM
Reading through all the comments on how "tough" this text is to interpret reminded me of a statement made by one of my seminary profs years ago. "It's not the texts that I find difficult to understand that cause me trouble. The ones that bother me are those I understand only too well, but don't like what they are saying to me". Blessings to all who are using this text on Sunday.
RetRev in Packerland
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 10:37:06 AM
Many have said that the manager couldn't have been giving the master's debtors his cut of the deals, because then he couldn't be considered "dishonest." But the second act of lowering the debtors bills is not the dishonest portion. It was the previous act of squandering the master's possesions. This word, "diaskorpidzo" is the same verb as what the prodigal did with his inheritance in the previous chapter. For a steward or manager to do that to his master's riches is dishonesty enough. This is why he was fired.
Now, verse 9 is the key to this whole parable. Its not about shrewdness, but about making amends, about restitution and reparation, about cementing his relationship with the debtors as well as cementing his master's relationship with his debtors.
The manager gave up his cut, "the mammon of unrighteousness" that he had earned to make amends, and to restore faith.
"All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," we've all made out like bandits, squandering the grace of God. How much of "the mammon of unrighteousness" we've amassed will we give back? How will we repay God's grace?
This parable is about restitution, becoming stewards and receiving God's grace.
AKH in New Hampshire
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 11:04:51 AM
Once again, WOW - you folks are good! There are going to be some wonderful and varied sermons out there this week. Mine will be of much higher quality from all the help I have received here. Thanks all. LGB
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 12:12:36 PM
First time responding on this site and I have enjoyed all comments. That have been a great help. I too am having great trouble with this passage. I read this comment in a book by Herbert O'Driscol on this passage "Jesus asks that we invest the same energy in our relationship with God that we invest in our personal affairs." I think that in regards to stewardship when we as Christians give the same weight to our relationship with God as to our personal affairs then we are coming into a real personal relationship with God and his Son Jesus Christ. Just think of all the energy we expend in our personal affairs. I believe that Jesus is demanding us to make that same investment in Spititual things. My challenge to my congregation on Sunday will be along this line.
Jay in Canada
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 1:56:24 PM
KHC: Your story fills me with rage on your behalf (your own has probably cooled somewhat). It challenges my belief in a merciful God: with people like your former-sort-of-brother-in-law, I really hope God gives him a fitting punishment (but I also hope that same God won't punish me - ha!)
One theological diagnosis: your former-sort-of-brother-in-law simply did not understand his true net worth. He was worth the blood of Christ, shed for him, and for your sister, and for you, and for us. He mistakenly placed his worth in his stuff, not in his relationships through Christ with each other.
The master's approval of the dishonest manager was not about the manager's shrewd ability to stick it to others. He approved the dishonest manager's realization that "relationships are more important than stuff." Stuff, money, mamona tes adikia, are just a means to a goal of enhancing human relationships. Your former-sort-of-brother-in-law utterly failed to realize this. So The Master would not approve of his sort of shrewdness.
I wouldn't blame you at all for being bitter. His betrayal of your sister and your family is of the worst kind. Makes my blood pressure go up just thinking about it. But I hope you take some consolation that you recognize something he didn't: where our true net worth lies.
Maybe the moral high ground isn't worth $100,000 - and it's easy for me to say, because it wasn't money destined for me - but I believe it is. I believe that seeing people in the context of relationship through Christ, which includes the justice of Christ's kingdom, is worth more than stuff. I hope I can live up to my own lofty goals, and that the Master can forgive my rotten stewardship when I don't.
LF
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 2:02:27 PM
Jay in Canada,
I appreciate your comments on the passage. However, when one says it isn't this, but this and how this isn't the key, but this is--well, I think we'd all agree that there are about 4 sermons with as many viewpoints in this passage. The truth is, with Luke's gospel written and circulated so much later in the 1st century, who knows what was added as footnotes for explanation and clarification (which was acceptable in the 1st century)or the orignial context Christ told the story, or if any details were left out.
But let's take the passage just on what is there. We get the "title" of the passage, "The parable of the dishonest steward" from Luke's use of the adjective, 'dishonest' which is attached to the steward after he cheats on the bill accounts due the rich man.
Myself? I think he was dishonest all the way through, but I agree with Craddock that if he were just cutting high interest off the debts, trying to make the rich man look good to the debtors, he woulnd't have been called dishonest. He wasn't anywhere else in the parable. Squandering property may not be stealing, just stupid management of the rich man's resources, which would also be grounds for firing the steward.
I just can't get away from the fact that he cheated, stole from his owner for his own gain, i.e. make friends at the rich man's expense. For me, that's where the action of the parable is, how the steward paves the way for his comfort. It doesn't appear to me that he is trying to cement the relationship between the rich man and the debtors. He's looking out for #1 becuase by his own admission, he's squandered the property, and knows he is going to get fired.
Auggie in TN
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 5:11:39 PM
Helpful and great discussion. I'm going with the title "Audacious!" It's a slogan promoted in the Iowa UM conference by our Bishop. The manager was "audacious" (look it up in the dictionary, it's perfect). Our Bishop has called us as a conference to become "Audacious" in witness, hospitality, transformation and service. I'll try to connect the dots between the two concepts, as Jesus encourages us to be shrewd like the people on the street -- only for us it's in our kingdom work. I look forward to addressing the "we've never done it that way before" argument. Rev. Jane in Iowa
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 5:12:34 PM
Helpful and great discussion. I'm going with the title "Audacious!" It's a slogan promoted in the Iowa UM conference by our Bishop. The manager was "audacious" (look it up in the dictionary, it's perfect). Our Bishop has called us as a conference to become "Audacious" in witness, hospitality, transformation and service. I'll try to connect the dots between the two concepts, as Jesus encourages us to be shrewd like the people on the street -- only for us it's in our kingdom work. I look forward to addressing the "we've never done it that way before" argument. Rev. Jane in Iowa
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 6:10:12 PM
This has been a particularly interesting week to listen and reflect upon the comments this particular Gospel lesson has elicited. This lesson has never quite given me the difficulty that it has given many of my parishioners and many clergy. I have always worked hard at trying to illuminate, as best I can, what our Lord is suggesting, but find that no matter how hard I try there is a certain group of brothers and sisters who are congenitally unable to handle this message. There is a part of me that realizes that for a certain group of people "this dog just won't hunt."
Some of the simple insights that work for me are that words such as, "clever" and "shrewd" are not necessarily always negative. The comment that was also helpful was that Jesus is trying to get us to think "outside the box".
As an example, this week I'm going to talk about the fact that I have somebody coming to work around the church who has to accummulate a certain number of community service hours because of a dishonest brush with the law. He has been immensely helpful already, and I've come to like him and asked him if he had ever been to church. He said he grew up being an altar boy but hasn't been in church in years. I looked at him and said, "Well, I'll give you three hours credit for every one hour you show up for church." I could see him thinking about it, and I'm not exactly sure he will even take me up on it, but I felt like it was perhaps a bit "clever" or "shrewd" way on my part to get him to come to church. (If he does, there goes that sermon illustration!) I think i'm going to have fun saying, "I know that there are a lot of old Connecticut Yankees out there who disagree with my shrewd bribe because an hour of work for an hour's pay is the Yankee way." I happen to think that the good Lord would be delighted and the angels in Heaven, as well, to see this gentleman coming to church. I've often found that if I can get people to come for just a few weeks, the Holy Spirit touches their lives and I think not only are they blessed, but then they have an opportunity to bless others in return. Just a few random thoughts from New England.
Fatherjoyful
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 7:06:53 PM
in God we trust! yes but which god is that? the steward gambles everything on the grace of the boss who is willing to bear the losses of the fraud. if the steward can gamble everythibg on the bosses good nature, then how much more is the grace of God which bears the burden of our fraudulent lives. Trust in that grace and discover a new perspective on material things which now become pressed into the service of the kingdom. Spike.
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 8:29:13 PM
I lost my job this week. I knew it was coming. I was the finance manager for a small seed and feed company in the midwest.
The economy has been slow and production has been down and people have been slow paying their bills. I have had a hard time myself. If it weren't for the kindness of a few of my customers, my family would have missed more than a few meals.
When I saw the downturn coming, I started doing some "favors" for my regulars giving them discounts and whatnot. You know, it never hurts to make friends any way you can. The boss caught on to it and even though he had to let me go, he honored the deals I made with my customers.
Suddenly I have no income but I have a network of friends who will see me through until I get back on my feet.
Ain't God great!
~~A thrifty Steward
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 8:37:44 PM
New to posting - but great thoughts in these posts. incredible insights.
as I read through them, and do some other readings, these are some of my thoughts-
I don't particularly like the image in Frederick Niedner's piece in Sundays and Seasons. Its view of atonement seems to me to be that it takes Jesus cooking the books for God to show mercy on us: "soon the boss catches on, but what can he do?" Isn't it God's intent, out of God's own mercy, that the "books are cooked," that our accounts are settled undeservedly in our favor? Isn't it God who is first prodigious, and sends Jesus?
I like what a lot of you have said about shrewdness and the use of sarcasm in this passage. David Tiede, in the Augsburg commentary describes the steward like Fagin in Oliver, "thinking it out again," not repenting, just lamenting that he does not have a legitimate option; "so he figures out a new way to continue playing the same dishonest game to his advantage." Yes, the master commends the steward, but only because of his shrewdness. Tiede says, "Just think what could happen if people were as clever in pursuing the justice and mercy of the kingdom as they are in looking out for themselves!" And finally, he points out that v. 9 is a double-edged counsel for people who know all about clever dealing: "If you are impressed by a shrewd fellow like this who wrote the book on how to manage unrighteousness, go ahead. Build up the 'network' of friends who are obligated to you on the basis of the mammon of unrighteousness, and see what they can do for you, not when you are fired, but when you are dead!"
Something else I'm thinking about is Reinhold Niebuhr's book, "Children of Light, Children of Darkness," which he wrote in 1944. He writes about the twin dangers of excessive optimism about human nature and excessive cynicism about it; that both will undo a democratic society. A more realistic view of human nature - a view that is shrewd about the ways of the world, but not cynical - is the "3rd way," a way of hope. These words seem extremely timely right now, but I'm not sure exactly how to pull it all together. And even though he is speaking about society and not the church, there is something in this for us as the church - that we do need to have a kind of shrewdness about the world in order to be faithful stewards (though the steward in the parable cannot be described as faithful); but (as in v. 9) we can't capitulate to that shrewdness, because finally it cannot sustain us in an ultimate way.
still thinking.... pastor zinnia
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 9:04:54 PM
I am pulling together an impossible sermon of inviting my hearers to look, look again and look yet again at this parable. The first look is the historical reading. The first hearers of this parable were mostly peasants who lived at the mercy of landowners and the like (referencing Bruce Malina's work. They also experienced the rich man as the Roman Empire's colonial system of exploitation and taxation (referencing postcolonial work). Most likely when the rich man gets screwed over by the manager, the first hearers must have said "YES!!!" then the parable makes the twist of the master commending the manager and the audience probably thinks "huh?"
Somebody earlier helped by pointing out that the manager and the rich man are playing the same rules and teh same world game. The rich man most likely says "Touche!"
Jesus goes on to tell his disciples "you dont have much, but your the rules you play by are different. They are rules of honesty. Honesty in small things because soon you will be given the kingdom of God with all its riches."
Preacherman
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 9:05:07 PM
I am pulling together an impossible sermon of inviting my hearers to look, look again and look yet again at this parable. The first look is the historical reading. The first hearers of this parable were mostly peasants who lived at the mercy of landowners and the like (referencing Bruce Malina's work. They also experienced the rich man as the Roman Empire's colonial system of exploitation and taxation (referencing postcolonial work). Most likely when the rich man gets screwed over by the manager, the first hearers must have said "YES!!!" then the parable makes the twist of the master commending the manager and the audience probably thinks "huh?"
Somebody earlier helped by pointing out that the manager and the rich man are playing the same rules and teh same world game. The rich man most likely says "Touche!"
Jesus goes on to tell his disciples "you dont have much, but your the rules you play by are different. They are rules of honesty. Honesty in small things because soon you will be given the kingdom of God with all its riches."
Preacherman
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 10:24:44 PM
I appreciated the comment on needing to make the distinction between preaching good advice and preaching good news--the "so what" has been eluding me. But I was so taken with Craddock's comment about not being burned at the stake but instead teaching Sunday school and feeding a cat. To use the parable to help people see the ultimate importance and significance that lies inside every moment--that would be a great thing.
The approach that rings true for me is the one that doesn't try to make the story add up to some neat moral truth. The Trickster is at work, and it's a story, and we can just let it work on us, even as we also hear the neat moral truths that do appear at the end. It matters what we do every day, all the little stuff. We are always stewards of God's gifts, no matter what we're doing. And so to act toward others as God has acted toward us becomes a holy thing to do every day.
Or something like that. So glad others were stumped by this; I read it and thought, am I just dumb?
Laura in TX
Date: 9/16/2004
Time: 11:02:34 PM
here's my take as a storyteller, There are two ways to behave, check it out: A self serving person in the management of his employers business enters into a (manipulative)relationship with those who are indebted to the employer, so that he will be welcomed into their homes when he needs a place to flop. I can imagine this guy shuffling off every two or three days to surf on the next 'friends' couch. Eventually he will be cast out... They are going to tire of this guy eventually, because that's the way the 'world works' - people get voted off the island, out of the community. 2)When I am in relationship I find I am naturally engaged in acts of selfless service. Jesus calls us into relationship with God so that we will have an eternal home. God does not tire of us because we are family, close family, sons and daughters, heirs to ALL the Father has. v:12 "Who will give you what is your own?" Or more to the point, "Who is capable of giving you this inheritance God or wealth, God or man?" blessed be Daniel in Oregon
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 3:14:50 AM
Yet another Angle: (groan groan) This is a story about the clergy. God entrusts us with the wealth that is from God and we squander it for personal gain. (embezzling of funds; sexual abuse; etc. etc. etc.) God calls us and says "You are fired!" We experience the departure of the Holy Spirit, lack of joy and passion for the ministry. We are too proud to beg and too ill equipped for the corporate world. So the deal is to "put people in our pockets". We dilute the word of God and lower the standards that God has made for God's people. ...help!!!! I think the analogy begins to crumble at this point. If anyone has pointers, would appreciate!
Storyteller
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 3:15:15 AM
Yet another Angle: (groan groan) This is a story about the clergy. God entrusts us with the wealth that is from God and we squander it for personal gain. (embezzling of funds; sexual abuse; etc. etc. etc.) God calls us and says "You are fired!" We experience the departure of the Holy Spirit, lack of joy and passion for the ministry. We are too proud to beg and too ill equipped for the corporate world. So the deal is to "put people in our pockets". We dilute the word of God and lower the standards that God has made for God's people. ...help!!!! I think the analogy begins to crumble at this point. If anyone has pointers, would appreciate!
Storyteller
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 4:29:15 AM
This passage reminds us (the faithful) to be truly committed to our faith, by submitting supremely our total beings to God.
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 4:32:27 AM
This passage reminds us (the faithful) to be truly committed to our faith, by submitting supremely our total beings to God.
cara_sats@yahoo.com
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 4:34:31 AM
LF:
You said: "One of the things I hear Jesus saying is, 'You can take a page out of the management books, but don't swallow the whole thing. As disciples, your goals are different [you cannot serve God and mammon]. Remember: it's not about money, it's not about power, its about God.'"
Right On! As Jesus said: "Be in the world, not OF the world."
This pericope is certainly causing us distress, but it sounds like y'all are coming together with your thoughts. Thank you for your posts. I appreciate your wisdom. While I don't often have "pearls" to share, sometimes I get an "aha."
Blessings on your work. pb in ny
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 4:49:56 AM
hahahahahaha!
I cracked some of this parable and wow!!! it's sweet! I am doubled up laughing myself silly! My sermon title is "Empty your pockets!" The manager was "pocketing" his master's wealth, got fired and then began "pocketing" other people.
Wowhweeee!!! I will have so much fun with this one! Watch the power politics in church and there is always someone trying to pocket someone else. To pocket people is to "buy them" with favors, secrets, gossip or other unholy alliances.
So it an Empty your pockets day for the manager and for all God's people. Cant wait to see what tumbles out! Dollar bills, buttons, dimes, wives, terrified co-workers, .... hhahahahah~! what a good story! Jesus rocks!
Storyteller
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 4:50:04 AM
hahahahahaha!
I cracked some of this parable and wow!!! it's sweet! I am doubled up laughing myself silly! My sermon title is "Empty your pockets!" The manager was "pocketing" his master's wealth, got fired and then began "pocketing" other people.
Wowhweeee!!! I will have so much fun with this one! Watch the power politics in church and there is always someone trying to pocket someone else. To pocket people is to "buy them" with favors, secrets, gossip or other unholy alliances.
So it an Empty your pockets day for the manager and for all God's people. Cant wait to see what tumbles out! Dollar bills, buttons, dimes, wives, terrified co-workers, .... hhahahahah~! what a good story! Jesus rocks!
Storyteller
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 5:25:34 AM
where is my wallet? This is a question raised in my mind when i remeber the sermon i delivered last year to this same gospel. Anyway, How do christians live his responsibility, ministry as members of the household of God mentiones in the letter of Paul to Timothy. Are they really committed on what the Lord's entrusted to them to do, to love like Jesus did to the unclean brethren in his society, to the labors today who are fighting for just wages, for the peasants who are deprive for the own land because of Christians landlords? How the government officials and those who have officies in management the trust from the people? How these officials do thier jobs? Thru thier corruption activities, "Kotong", and other scandalus behaviors as Christians community? I think it is a very insult to us, the only Christian country in SouthEast Asia?
Hoi gising na....stop the corruption!!!!!!!
A seminarian
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 6:31:46 AM
Storyteller,
We think a like, check out my post on 9/13/2004. The key phrase from that angle is "I have decided..." He had the chance for repentance, but decided on a new scheme instead.
Coho, Midway City
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 7:42:08 AM
Some random observations: What's the "red thread?" Why is this parable positioned where it is? I agree with RetRev's "Thinking Outside the Box". As we struggle with these tough text’s the humbling discovery and lesson we learn is that we aren’t as smart as we think we are—evidenced by the rich variety of thoughts and ideas and honest confessions. Is there only one way to interpret this or is it so confusing to us for a reason? Was it as confusing for Jesus’ listeners? RevRach
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 8:38:53 AM
I heard a man say that everyone needs someone who will "stab them in the chest." Not in the back. An enemy stabs someone in the back, but a good and true friend will stab you in the chest. That is, they will tell you the truth, as they see it, and as you won't. If we don't have such a friend, then we go on living in our denials and delusions.
It seems to me a prophet is someone who stabs the people in the chest. They are not the enemy. They are true friends. They are on the side of the people. They are telling the truth, as they see it, which others won't see.
Jesus, in the parable, is stabbing the Jewish representatives at the time in the chest. He is on their side, and is very much within Judaism, but he is being a prophet.
Religious people are the "middlemen" between God and the people. When they are ungracious, unjust, oppressive and non-compassionate, they not only hurt the people, they mis-represent God. God is gracious and compassionate, and religious folk ought to manage God's resources as such.
Brent in Pincher
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 9:04:15 AM
To Tom in Ontario: Thank you for the two sites you offered. I had been resisting the theme of forgiveness as putting too much on this parable that wasn't there, but when I reviewed my own outline of the parable (which I had to do because it's so darn compicated) I found that I had labeled vs. 5-7 as "winning friends by forgiving debts."
I love the rich man who could appreciate this scoundrel's creative way of taking care of himself, even at the rich man's expense. Looking at the parable by itself(which is a lot easier then trying to look at the whole passage), I believe Jesus is telling us that God appreciates it when we make friends for ourselves by forgiving the debts of others, even if it's at God's expense. After all, that's what God did for us in Jesus Christ.
Those whose debts we forgive will then welcome us into our eternal homes. SG in KS
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 9:31:28 AM
What if we look at the text from the angle of ourselves being the stewards?
Ouch!!!
I am dishonest with God's gifts, because I DON'T use them as I probably should. I squander the Master's gifts, by buying for myself. I buy into the shrewdness of the world. I fail to be an honest and good steward. I try to justify my dishonesty by saying, "At least I'm better than that other person," even though I'm probably not. How do I turn around before the Master finds out, and fires me?
Oh, oh. The Master already knows what I have done with the Master's wealth. Now what?
I will throw myself upon the mercy of the Master, and I will offer that mercy to the rest of the world, because no matter how dishonest I have been, no matter how I have failed as a steward, my Master is still good.
Musing.
Michelle
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 10:13:54 AM
Just one more observation (at this late time in the week...)
Did anyone notice that the debtors were conspire with the manager to cheat the rich man? To each debtor, the servant asked, "How much do you owe MY MASTER?" By answering that question, each debtor admit that who did they owe their debt to, and how much. The first example, even had the coercive "sit down quick, make it this much".
Furthermore, the comment in v.8 was "for the CHILDREN OF THIS AGE are more shrewd in dealing WITH THEIR OWN GENERATION."
Oh boy, oh boy; tsk, tsk, tsk. I don't think I like this angle at all...
Coho, Midway City.
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 10:37:51 AM
During a seminary class, one of my professors once called the lectionary, “That great destroyer of our faith”. Maybe part of the problem in this parable is that we are trying to look at just one piece of the puzzle without seeing the whole picture. For me, the text is bracketed by the two statements by Jesus which separate three well loved parables and this week’s clinker…
1) Luke 15:2 – The Pharisees and the scribes were grumbling and saying, “This fellow welcomes sinners and eats with them.” a. Parable of the lost sheep. b. Parable of the lost coin. c. Parable of the prodigal son. d. Parable of the dishonest manager. 2) Luke 16:14 – “The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this, and they ridiculed him.”
For me, the key to this parable in found in Luke 16:8. “And his master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly; for the children of this age are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than are the children of light.” When I look at these parables together as a unit, here’s what I see…
If the people of this world would expend so much time searching for a single lost sheep or single coin, how much more should we as disciples seek out and tend to those who do not yet know God?
The prodigal son went back to his father not to seek forgiveness but to keep from dying from starvation. If the people of this world are intelligent enough to selfishly go back to the father for food, how much more should we as disciples go back to our Father who joyously gives us the things that we need most? Grace, mercy, and love.
The dishonest manager called in his master’s debtors to forgive parts of their debts (something that he had no right to do) in order to selfishly obtain future benefits. If the people of this world would do something like this, how much more should we as disciples go out to others in love and forgiveness?
KB in MN…
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 11:01:50 AM
I think I will focus on "Where's the surprise?" So many of us have problems with this parable because (as some of you have pointed out) it just doesn't "add up." So where's the surprise?
There's a dishonest manager, squandering money -- makes sense, we've seen plenty of that. The boss demands an accounting and fires him -- makes sense. The manager decides to take matters into his own hands, use his remaining influence and buy his way into the clients' hearts to secure his own future -- still makes sense.
And the master commended the dishonest manager because he acted shrewdly -- wait a minute! Doesn't make sense! All the masters we know want to hold onto their wealth, not have it given away. There's the surprise!
Why does that surprise us? Because we live in a society based on a principle of hanging onto things, not giving them away. We've spent our lives learning how to hang onto more and more stuff.
Where's the surprise? The surprise is that the kingdom of God is based on giving stuff away, freely, ridiculously, outrageously. We can't understand it, we're surprised by it, because our culture, the air we breathe, tells us to serve mammon, not God. We've forgotten about the free gift ... of everything -- life, forgiveness, abundance, eternal life, the wedding banquet. We've forgotten that God's economy is based on Eucharist (thanksgiving).
I have no idea whether this is the "correct" interpretation ... I think I will point out, as some have suggested here, that there are at least 6 or 8 excellent (and different) interpretations of this parable. But for me, the way to preach it is to ask where it surprises us. The surprise is the kingdom of God.
Susan in AZ
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 11:05:08 AM
I was desperate to figure out this text but through your collective brilliance was able to find myself on the otherside of what I think will be at least an acceptable sermon, hopefully from both God's point of view and those in the pews. After ingesting your comments I finally found myself at the end of the passage saying, Oh...so the manager is the example of service of money...shrewd, smart, savy and that while his shrewdness is okay, it would have been put to better use in the service of God. That finally made this text come together as one piece rather than a bunch of jumbled up parts. Thanks for your insights. DF in TN
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 11:06:22 AM
I am a recovering shopping addict. My house couldn't hold all the things I had bought, and I thought I still needed more. I was cheating God out of my "wealth" that could have been used to further the Kingdom in the world but I was spending it on things that did not matter, did not build relationships with anybody, and gave my life a false sense of security. I finally woke up and I ended up getting rid of huge amounts of it, and with each box of things I removed from the house, I realized that each box represented hundreds of dollars that God had entrusted to my care which had been squandered on things that I only thought gave my life its worth. How wrong I was. Had I given that same dollar amount away to Godly purposes, or had spent the shopping time with parishoners, friends and family, I would have a better report to give the Master. Money doesn't mean squat unless it is used for purposes that enrich lives in meaningful ways. Time is wasted if it is only used to pursue selfish pleasures with no real regard for community.
I wouldn't be any richer in cash, but I would be richer in spirit. I was too busy on the things of this world to grasp the concept of the Kingdom.
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 2:54:03 PM
I’m also thinking along the lines of AKH in New Hampshire.
The “Little Kittel” article on mamonas [wealth, mammon] pointed me in this direction. Seems this word “most probably derives from the root ‘mn (‘that in which one trusts’).” (552) Pretty ironic when thinking about the saying printed on US paper bills.
About the Lk 16 passage . . . “From the unjust steward they must learn to use it (mammon) in the service of love for others.” (552)
The shrewd/cunning manager in this parable finds his “salvation” by helping others with money (maybe some of it out of his own pocket).
Thanks to all for your contributions – this has been a fascination discussion this week!
RJR in IA
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 2:54:12 PM
I’m also thinking along the lines of AKH in New Hampshire.
The “Little Kittel” article on mamonas [wealth, mammon] pointed me in this direction. Seems this word “most probably derives from the root ‘mn (‘that in which one trusts’).” (552) Pretty ironic when thinking about the saying printed on US paper bills.
About the Lk 16 passage . . . “From the unjust steward they must learn to use it (mammon) in the service of love for others.” (552)
The shrewd/cunning manager in this parable finds his “salvation” by helping others with money (maybe some of it out of his own pocket).
Thanks to all for your contributions – this has been a fascination discussion this week!
RJR in IA
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 2:54:36 PM
Tom in Ontario: Are you saying in essence, God is the Master, Jesus is the Manager who lowers (cancels) the debts of the people (us)? rev jaw p.s. to those who don't like shrewd; dictionary says it is astute or sharp in practical matters. Not necessarily bad.
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 7:14:51 PM
oh well, guess I'll preach on the first or second lesson : )
Big Daddy, IA
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 7:47:19 PM
Stop rationalizing this story... we are the dishonest streward! We are the one's who do not deserve a thing. We should be fired!
We were given a gift from God and each one of us has squandered that gift... and yet, we are forgiven and so are given the gift of still existing in God's love! What a gift...
TB in MN
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 8:21:03 PM
Coho: yep! Storyteller
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 9:52:17 PM
Hello, I'm pretty new here; only posted a couple of times.. THis is late in the game, but I had some thoughts I wanted to kick around... see if anyone had comments.
Perhaps because I'm reading The Wounded Healer, I arrived at the thought that another interpretation of this parable could be that we as disciples are the rich man- we possess the pearl of great price- and that the dishonest steward is the lost amongst us. It is only through looking at the dishonest manager, and connecting to that within him which we don't like to admit in ourselves, and appreciating it fully we can truly approach him on his level and begin true communication.
A sentence flew out at me from Nouwen's book: "This promise...(hope)...is also the guiding motive for any Christian who keeps pointing to new life even in the face of corruption and death."
Nouwen's whole premise seems to be that we have to get down and recognize the sickness we see in our fellow man in our own hearts, and therein find commonality and a real basis for communion with the lost amongst us.
If we are able to admit to the lesser in our own selves, to the extent we can identify with those in a lost condition, we then offer them the real possibility of true understanding.
So, maybe we are the rich man, who must be humbled by the dishonest steward to remember when... When we were just like him... When we were casting about for something to save us... When we were living by our wits, instead of trusting God?
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 9:53:33 PM
Hello, I'm pretty new here; only posted a couple of times.. THis is late in the game, but I had some thoughts I wanted to kick around... see if anyone had comments.
Perhaps because I'm reading The Wounded Healer, I arrived at the thought that another interpretation of this parable could be that we as disciples are the rich man- we possess the pearl of great price- and that the dishonest steward is the lost amongst us. It is only through looking at the dishonest manager, and connecting to that within him which we don't like to admit in ourselves, and appreciating it fully we can truly approach him on his level and begin true communication.
A sentence flew out at me from Nouwen's book: "This promise...(hope)...is also the guiding motive for any Christian who keeps pointing to new life even in the face of corruption and death."
Nouwen's whole premise seems to be that we have to get down and recognize the sickness we see in our fellow man in our own hearts, and therein find commonality and a real basis for communion with the lost amongst us.
If we are able to admit to the lesser in our own selves, to the extent we can identify with those in a lost condition, we then offer them the real possibility of true understanding.
So, maybe we are the rich man, who must be humbled by the dishonest steward to remember when... When we were just like him... When we were casting about for something to save us... When we were living by our wits, instead of trusting God?
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 10:41:37 PM
Dear Thrifty Steward,
Your pragmatism is commendable. I suppose you were authorized to give discounts. How ingenious to use this to your advantage once you knew your termination was forthcoming.
If only the church were as ingenious with God's wealth and grace. They are constantly building on to their buildings, moving further out of town, buying the latest technology and making it easier than ever to reach people without ever making personal contact. Spending on themsleves lavishly with the idea of making the church "comfortable" and making the gospel "presentable." The day of accounting is coming. Let's hope they've made some friends and racked up true riches where moth and rust have no power.
~~Your former Manager
Date: 9/17/2004
Time: 10:57:57 PM
when the word steward comes up, I always think of Martha Stewart.
Do you think Martha Stewart stole paper clips from her company and that led to her ultimate downfall?
She probably felt entitled to do what she did (stealing paper clips or insider trading).
If she thought it was OK to steal something small, it wouldn't be much more of a step to steal something bigger or do something even more unrighteous.
~~IGWT~~ (has anyone seen my copy of M.S.L.?)
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 6:05:41 AM
KB in MN
I also think vs 8 is key here. I invite you to read my contribution posted on 9/13 at 2:49 PM and would like to hear any suggestions or comments.
Auggie in TN
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 7:58:44 AM
TB in MN - yeah, but by being even MORE dishonest????
-Sally
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 8:17:31 AM
Fatherjoyful:
I appreciated your post!! It's a good real-life illustration and put me in mind of one that happened in my previous appointment... and the hoopla over it because people "knew the woman" who stole money from the charity over which she was a chair (and she stole it - $20,000 or more - and over a period of 4 years, so it's not like they got in a financial bind and she panicked and used the money for her own family). Anyways... another thought
I'm from Ohio and now living in Georgia. Despite being officially a "Midwesterner," down here I'm from North of the Mason-Dixon line and I have an accent (at least down here I do). That classifies me as "Yankee." All I'd have to do to get my Southern congregation to get out of the idea that an hour's pay for an hour's work is to say it was a "Yankee" idea!!!!! That'd cure them IMMEDIATELY!
:-)
Sally in GA
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 8:37:32 AM
Huh!!! I just had an insight that may or may not go anywhere ultimately, but since I've got to get my "magical 3" posts out there, I thought i'd share it
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 8:46:33 AM
oops - didn't mean to post; my finger hit something by accident. Make that "magical 4" posts! :-)
Anyways, I'm thinking about the book "Who Moved My Cheese?" One of the things I find so interesting in life (and aggravating) is that people get comfortable and it's not long before they forget how they got to their 'place.' Then they think they "deserved" it, or are somehow entitled to that comfortable place. When life changes, and they can't avoid seeing the change any longer, they get mad and mope and moan and point fingers all over the place - even (in the church) to the point of withdrawing altogether because the church is now "too liberal" or "too conservative" or whatever.
I think about how often I've heard from these sourpusses, "Why won't the Conference help us little churches out," - and innocently and naively unaware that their demise has been their own settling in on their own comfort level! There's a guy in my church who refuses to go anymore because he's right and the church is wrong. (and if you don't believe it, just ask him).
The thing is ... we've been squandering God's resources, eating our cheese until it's all gone, and then complain about being hungry. I have little patience for that ... like what am I supposed to do, turn back time so things can be as they were before?
This builds to this point: will we deal with what we've got (as the unscrupulous manager did), knowing that the end is in sight anyway, or will we continue to wallow in self-pity about not being served by whoever we think we ought to be served by?
The manager is wise, shrewd, clever ... because he responded to the writing on the wall and moved with the situation, rather than against it, or by sitting down and saying "nanny nanny boo boo."
Sally in GA
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 9:01:50 AM
are our churches places we deserve or are they gifts from God?
I vote for the latter ...
Do we deserve error-free bulletins, a monthly newsletter, and acolytes every Sunday/ Do we deserve wonderful organ music for $75 a week? Do we deserve a Christmas luncheon?
I think we're too used to being "worked for." Who is the Employer, anyway? Not us! We're the managers, squqndering away the things we've been entrusted because we think we are entitled to them.
Sally. Last one, I promise.
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 9:24:40 AM
Auggie in TN…
I agree in thinking that the rich owner is really a rich owner of this world, the dishonest manager, a dishonest manager of this world. I get into all sorts of theological quicksand trying to place labels on this parable. If God is the rich owner then does he commend dishonesty? If Jesus is the ‘dishonest manager’ then does he forgive only part of my (the debtor) debts? Dangerous territory as far as I’m concerned…
I’m a bit frazzled trying to put some of the great comments from others into a coherent sermon. I feel that we get it wrong when we concentrate on simply being faithful to God with our “wealth”. Our congregation, during offertory prays, “We offer with joy and thanksgiving what you have first given us – our selves, our time, and our possessions, signs of your gracious love.” God does not want 10% of our cash! God wants us! Seems that the prodigal son was concerned mostly about himself, his own fun-time, and his own possessions. Same with the dishonest manager.
The Old Testament is full of warnings about false idols which obstruct worship of the one true God. Preaching against the evils of worshiping idols made of stone or wood won’t fly in today’s world.
So what idol might we worship today if not the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Perhaps Me, Myself, and I?
Just some thoughts…
KB in MN
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 9:26:55 AM
Sermon Notes
Ripe for a New Story. Stories were an important part of Jesus' culture and they continue to be an important part of ours. The parable of the unjust manager has the quality of a trickster tale. The trickster can be described as an underling who gets the best of someone in a position of power over him or her. In America, we are familiar with Brer' Rabbit stories, old fables like the tortoise and the hare, or with spider (Ananse) stories from Africa and the Caribbean. Consider modernizing this parable using elements common to today's culture before explaining how Jesus' conclusions about honesty, faithfulness, and wealth apply to us today. Might your dishonest manager be a politician handing out tax breaks? Or might he be a hospital administrator forgiving hospital bills? Remember, the "moral" of Jesus' story was the wise use of money to serve people.
How Many Masters? Jesus' words about serving two masters were another warning about the subtle idolatries that creep into our lives. The words of Luke 16:13 prod us to reexamine priorities and the importance of people, power, and wealth in our lives.
Safiyah Fosua - from "Preaching Helps" on the United Methodist site (via textweek.com)
you-know-who
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 11:35:01 AM
Thanks for the Apprentice idea. I am running with it as we speak...they had to impress the Donald and there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason about what impressed him. They had totally selfish motivations but he still wanted them to manage his company after they showed their creativity and money-making skills.
Kicker is that we're FIRED, but thanks be to God we are raised again in Jesus Christ.
Or something like that. ;)
Peace, Beth in Ga
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 12:37:28 PM
KB in MN,
God wouldn't commend dishonesty. That word used to describe the manager. The "master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly." God commended the calculated actions.
Coho.
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 1:30:02 PM
I'm running with the ideas shared here about the manager being forgiving about the money because he saw it was being used to help out the poor. If the manager had bought himself land with it or hired out his own manager with it, that would not have earned commendation. Since it was going toward at least surface generosity, the master and the manager both come out looking like good guys to the poor workers. Kind of like a plant manager giving bonuses to the line workers, and the CEO saying it was OK with him. Both get the gratitude of the workers.
God doesn't need all our stewardship in the church's offering plates. We can parcel some of it out to Habitat for Humanity or to the Red Cross or some other charitable organization that helps those in need. He doesn't mind. It's all to the good.
Have a good Sabbath, everyone. See you back here next week for another rousing discussion.
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 2:16:12 PM
Lots of different interpetions here. Still very confusing and I just got back from bible study on this passage:) Better luck next week.
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 4:32:27 PM
Jesus commended not the manager's dishonesty, but his "playing the hand he was dealt." He didn't become a victim - even though he was the source of his own misfortune (being fired because of his squandering money).
Bishop William Willimon says in his sermon, "The Future and what to Do About It," "Remember how you laughed when you saw the movie, 'The Sting?'" (now, to paraphrase) ... we think it's funny until we get to the end of the parable and JEsus says something surprising: he commends the dishonest manager! "We don't expect Jesus to praise immorality. And yet, this is just what he does. Jesus has the swindled boss praise the swindler for his shrewdness."
"Perhaps the story is simpler than that. Jesus tells the story about a manager, albeit a dishonest one, who when faced with terrible catastrophe, recognizes the catastrophe and immediately moves to do something about it.
"Look at us is similar circumstances. When adversity comes, we tend to freeze up, or we pull the covers over our hed and simply give up. ...
"Circle the wagons, move into a defensive posture, hunker down. Why fight a hopeless cause?
"The parable says this is a miserly way to live. If even dishonest, unscrupulous business people know how to move from the defensive to the offensive so quickly, how much more so ought we? ...
"Jesus lures (us) toward an unexpected future, unexpected because it is not our future; it is God's.
"The unscrupulous manager took what had been dealt his way, a rather precarious and bleak prospect, and ... worked with it with faith that even this could lead to good, and his story continued.
"We see in this parable some good advice for the future ...
"We are urged to stride into the future with confidence, not confidence in ourselves or our abilities, but confidence in the po\wer and grace of God."
His illustration is one from evangelist Jim Wallis, who told of a story about a declining inner-city church whose "old ladies" sat in chairs on each corner of their church, and in the process keeping drug dealers at bay. Beat them at their own game!
Also, an inner-city church that had its share of homeless campers in the church doorways. One wise woman on the administrative council wondered aloud how the church could be more open to these (mostly) men in need. Another countered, "What do you want us to do? Just throw open the doors and tell 'em, come on in help yourself?'" Someone else said, "Why not?" and not only did the worst NOT happen (the fear in most churches would be that they would steal things), but it helped the church end up becoming what one in the congregation called "a real church."
Sally in GA
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 4:32:32 PM
Late, as usual. I learned in seminary (started 48 yrs. ago!)that parables have just one point. To allegorize all the points misses the point. It seems the point is is to use what you have and who you are to get in tight with (and thus advance) the Kingdom of God. The following statements regarding mammon seem to reinforce this. Jesus' seeming to commend the dishonest steward certainly gets our attention! As it undoubtedly did in Jesus' day.
revhen in ny
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 4:44:47 PM
Jesus commended not the manager's dishonesty, but his "playing the hand he was dealt." He didn't become a victim - even though he was the source of his own misfortune (being fired because of his squandering money).
Bishop William Willimon says in his sermon, "The Future and what to Do About It," "Remember how you laughed when you saw the movie, 'The Sting?'" (now, to paraphrase) ... we think it's funny until we get to the end of the parable and JEsus says something surprising: he commends the dishonest manager! "We don't expect Jesus to praise immorality. And yet, this is just what he does. Jesus has the swindled boss praise the swindler for his shrewdness."
"Perhaps the story is simpler than that. Jesus tells the story about a manager, albeit a dishonest one, who when faced with terrible catastrophe, recognizes the catastrophe and immediately moves to do something about it.
"Look at us is similar circumstances. When adversity comes, we tend to freeze up, or we pull the covers over our hed and simply give up. ...
"Circle the wagons, move into a defensive posture, hunker down. Why fight a hopeless cause?
"The parable says this is a miserly way to live. If even dishonest, unscrupulous business people know how to move from the defensive to the offensive so quickly, how much more so ought we? ...
"Jesus lures (us) toward an unexpected future, unexpected because it is not our future; it is God's.
"The unscrupulous manager took what had been dealt his way, a rather precarious and bleak prospect, and ... worked with it with faith that even this could lead to good, and his story continued.
"We see in this parable some good advice for the future ...
"We are urged to stride into the future with confidence, not confidence in ourselves or our abilities, but confidence in the po\wer and grace of God."
His illustration is one from evangelist Jim Wallis, who told of a story about a declining inner-city church whose "old ladies" sat in chairs on each corner of their church, and in the process keeping drug dealers at bay. Beat them at their own game!
Also, an inner-city church that had its share of homeless campers in the church doorways. One wise woman on the administrative council wondered aloud how the church could be more open to these (mostly) men in need. Another countered, "What do you want us to do? Just throw open the doors and tell 'em, come on in help yourself?'" Someone else said, "Why not?" and not only did the worst NOT happen (the fear in most churches would be that they would steal things), but it helped the church end up becoming what one in the congregation called "a real church."
Sally in GA
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 5:11:10 PM
For those of you still struggling at the 11th hour- I got it!!! The key to it all is the last word of verse 9. The Greek is not "houses", but "tents". Houses are stable, lasting, Tents are for nomads- used here, wandering eternally. Remember, Jesus just taught about the lost being found- here they are forever lost. This "children of this age" (vs. children of light means children of the dark), being more shrewd, will have their eternal reward- wandering as nomads. Verse 9 is almost sacrastic: So go on, be shrewd- raid that corporation for personal fortune. Leave the company to its fate. You'll be able to use that fortune to travel forever... in the dark." Verse 10 following then becomes, "So now, for you children of the light, here's what is important to remember, & do" Watch your faithfulness in everday things, and your final allegiance. TS in CO
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 7:17:29 PM
I know, I know, I'm getting a late start...
This Parable smells of a Robin Hood Theme... stealing from the Rich Man and giving to the poor, the debtors.
Hmmm
The plot thicken's,
pulpitt in ND
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 8:23:19 PM
Fred Niedner, you rock.
-J. Krentz
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 8:36:13 PM
Okay, I got this somewhere else, but I no longer remember the source.
Here's my conclusion...
Notice that it is the manager's shrewdness which is commended, not his dishonesty.
Jesus is telling us that the world is shrewd about doing worldly things, yet God's people are often not shrewd about the things of God. [vs. 8]
Therefore, I'm preaching on being shrewd for God's kingdom. [preparing, thinking, evaluating, having goals, etc.]
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 8:36:32 PM
p.s. that was me again, Pastor Stinky
Date: 9/18/2004
Time: 9:34:59 PM
For you procrastinators out there...
Little...
McDonald's gave me "Too Much" change this week... .25 too much! So I turned it in! THEN, I found $2.00 on the coat rack at church, so I asked the custodian if she saw it, she said, "Yes, the photographer found it after the weekend wedding... so I put it in our MISSION box!"... now, had it been a $100 bill, hmmmmm... now you're messing with me...
The Gospel is tough and true...
pulpitt in ND
Date: 9/19/2004
Time: 5:02:32 AM
Good Morning, This week I read an Old Testament story about the prophet Jeremiah, the compassion he had for his countrymen, and the anguish he experienced as God gave the prophet his Word regarding the destruction of Israel. Israel had failed to be obedient to God. It seems as though the nation of Israel is refusing to face the facts, God has searched Israel and found his chosen people to be a source of anguish. Jeremiah 8:18-9:1 (NRSV) 18 My joy is gone, grief is upon me, my heart is sick. 19 Hark, the cry of my poor people from far and wide in the land: “Is the LORD not in Zion? Is her King not in her?” (“Why have they provoked me to anger with their images, with their foreign idols?”)
God has told Israel you are not being a just steward of the resources entrusted to you. You have worshipped false gods, and you have not shared with the poor people that I have among you. No longer will you be a steward of my glory and my goodness.
Israel does not even ask how they can as a nation go on not being a steward of God’s Love and Word. Because they are not in a position to secure a peace with the Babylonians, they do not have much of a chance of being welcome into a friendly sharing of land.
The horrors of that devastation were recalled in Psalm 79:1-4 (NRSV) 1 O God, the nations have come into your inheritance; they have defiled your holy temple; they have laid Jerusalem in ruins. 2 They have given the bodies of your servants to the birds of the air for food, the flesh of your faithful to the wild animals of the earth. 3 They have poured out their blood like water all around Jerusalem, and there was no one to bury them. 4 We have become a taunt to our neighbors, mocked and derided by those around us.
The prophet Jeremiah hearing the Word of our God, cried. Jeremiah 8:20-9:1 (NRSV) 20 “The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.” 21 For the hurt of my poor people I am hurt, I mourn, and dismay has taken hold of me. 22 Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has the health of my poor people not been restored? 1 O that my head were a spring of water, and my eyes a fountain of tears, so that I might weep day and night for the slain of my poor people!
This human condition that cause our sin, is why we need a mediator between our Holy and Divine God and ourselves. Paul wrote in ministry regarding that need 1 Timothy 2:5-6 (NRSV) 5 For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all —this was attested at the right time.
As a people of God we do not want to face the destruction Israel did, we need to be in communication with our heavenly Father. We need to be in prayer on a daily basis. Among the items on our prayer list is our need to be in prayer with Thanksgivings to God for the goodness God has blessed even our enemies with. Our hope would be that they would come to know Jesus Christ and be saved. We need to pray for our elected leaders as well as the leaders around the world. Timothy 2:1-4 (NRSV) 1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Seeing how the Pharisees of the church had failed to be a good steward, Jesus warned the church that it is not possible to worship God and at the same time be a lover of money. You must manage the wealth God has blessed you with wisely. Greed is not a part of being a good steward; it only leads to the loss of your soul. There will be a final accounting, are you a good steward of what God has blessed you with? Remember Luke 16:10-12 (NRSV) 10 “Whoever is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much; and whoever is dishonest in a very little is dishonest also in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful with the dishonest wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful with what belongs to another, who will give you what is your own?
In the parable of the unjust steward, he is wise enough to see the judgment day for his sins coming and he thinks ahead about his future life. He knows what he must do to enter into the homes and friendships of the rich man’s debtors. Luke 16:3-7(NRSV) 3 Then the manager said to himself, ‘What will I do, now that my master is taking the position away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg. 4 I have decided what to do so that, when I am dismissed as manager, people may welcome me into their homes.’ 5 So, summoning his master’s debtors one by one, he asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ 6 He answered, ‘A hundred jugs of olive oil.’ He said to him, ‘Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it fifty.’ 7 Then he asked another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ He replied, ‘A hundred containers of wheat.’ He said to him, ‘Take your bill and make it eighty.’
To what eternal home do you want to enter? You must be faithful to your choice. If you desire the eternal home of God’s kingdom you must be judged to be a forgiven steward in the name and blood of Jesus Christ. That would be the smart choice over the choice of not doing anything and facing destruction.
There is a true rich treasure that you are the steward of in your spiritual life. Are you being a trustworthy steward? You must serve one way because no servant can serve two masters. Luke 16:13 (NRSV) 13 No slave can serve two masters; for a slave will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”
Date: 9/19/2004
Time: 5:02:38 AM
Good Morning, This week I read an Old Testament story about the prophet Jeremiah, the compassion he had for his countrymen, and the anguish he experienced as God gave the prophet his Word regarding the destruction of Israel. Israel had failed to be obedient to God. It seems as though the nation of Israel is refusing to face the facts, God has searched Israel and found his chosen people to be a source of anguish. Jeremiah 8:18-9:1 (NRSV) 18 My joy is gone, grief is upon me, my heart is sick. 19 Hark, the cry of my poor people from far and wide in the land: “Is the LORD not in Zion? Is her King not in her?” (“Why have they provoked me to anger with their images, with their foreign idols?”)
God has told Israel you are not being a just steward of the resources entrusted to you. You have worshipped false gods, and you have not shared with the poor people that I have among you. No longer will you be a steward of my glory and my goodness.
Israel does not even ask how they can as a nation go on not being a steward of God’s Love and Word. Because they are not in a position to secure a peace with the Babylonians, they do not have much of a chance of being welcome into a friendly sharing of land.
The horrors of that devastation were recalled in Psalm 79:1-4 (NRSV) 1 O God, the nations have come into your inheritance; they have defiled your holy temple; they have laid Jerusalem in ruins. 2 They have given the bodies of your servants to the birds of the air for food, the flesh of your faithful to the wild animals of the earth. 3 They have poured out their blood like water all around Jerusalem, and there was no one to bury them. 4 We have become a taunt to our neighbors, mocked and derided by those around us.
The prophet Jeremiah hearing the Word of our God, cried. Jeremiah 8:20-9:1 (NRSV) 20 “The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.” 21 For the hurt of my poor people I am hurt, I mourn, and dismay has taken hold of me. 22 Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has the health of my poor people not been restored? 1 O that my head were a spring of water, and my eyes a fountain of tears, so that I might weep day and night for the slain of my poor people!
This human condition that cause our sin, is why we need a mediator between our Holy and Divine God and ourselves. Paul wrote in ministry regarding that need 1 Timothy 2:5-6 (NRSV) 5 For there is one God; there is also one mediator between God and humankind, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all —this was attested at the right time.
As a people of God we do not want to face the destruction Israel did, we need to be in communication with our heavenly Father. We need to be in prayer on a daily basis. Among the items on our prayer list is our need to be in prayer with Thanksgivings to God for the goodness God has blessed even our enemies with. Our hope would be that they would come to know Jesus Christ and be saved. We need to pray for our elected leaders as well as the leaders around the world. Timothy 2:1-4 (NRSV) 1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Seeing how the Pharisees of the church had failed to be a good steward, Jesus warned the church that it is not possible to worship God and at the same time be a lover of money. You must manage the wealth God has blessed you with wisely. Greed is not a part of being a good steward; it only leads to the loss of your soul. There will be a final accounting, are you a good steward of what God has blessed you with? Remember Luke 16:10-12 (NRSV) 10 “Whoever is faithful in a very little is faithful also in much; and whoever is dishonest in a very little is dishonest also in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful with the dishonest wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful with what belongs to another, who will give you what is your own?
In the parable of the unjust steward, he is wise enough to see the judgment day for his sins coming and he thinks ahead about his future life. He knows what he must do to enter into the homes and friendships of the rich man’s debtors. Luke 16:3-7(NRSV) 3 Then the manager said to himself, ‘What will I do, now that my master is taking the position away from me? I am not strong enough to dig, and I am ashamed to beg. 4 I have decided what to do so that, when I am dismissed as manager, people may welcome me into their homes.’ 5 So, summoning his master’s debtors one by one, he asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’ 6 He answered, ‘A hundred jugs of olive oil.’ He said to him, ‘Take your bill, sit down quickly, and make it fifty.’ 7 Then he asked another, ‘And how much do you owe?’ He replied, ‘A hundred containers of wheat.’ He said to him, ‘Take your bill and make it eighty.’
To what eternal home do you want to enter? You must be faithful to your choice. If you desire the eternal home of God’s kingdom you must be judged to be a forgiven steward in the name and blood of Jesus Christ. That would be the smart choice over the choice of not doing anything and facing destruction.
There is a true rich treasure that you are the steward of in your spiritual life. Are you being a trustworthy steward? You must serve one way because no servant can serve two masters. Luke 16:13 (NRSV) 13 No slave can serve two masters; for a slave will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”
Date: 9/19/2004
Time: 11:35:08 AM
Thanks to the tie-in with Oprah and Pontiac, I used much of the sermon time to explain this parable with a modern-day true life parable. I think they understood much better. It was a one point sermon dealing with how to make everyone come out a winner - the needy, the middle guy and the One in Charge of it all. What we give away isn't really ours in the first place, it's God's. But God approves when we give his riches to those who need it most, even if it benefits us in some way in the long run. Squandering what God puts in our hands is sinful, giving it away is not.
Date: 9/20/2004
Time: 2:08:39 PM
Be honest in what you do. and only serve God not the computer or other electonical things.
Date: 9/22/2004
Time: 8:13:59 PM
Not citing anyone in particular...have you noticed the most helpful comments are usually the shortest? Perhaps that's good advice as we prepare our sermons as well!! Just kiddin' yall! Thanks for so much great interaction on the Word. Joy in Atlanta
Date: 9/22/2004
Time: 8:19:09 PM
I'm working on connection between Jeremiah's investing (actually redeeming) the field along with the rich man and Lazarus passage. Something about godly investing, where we place not only our money but our hearts (as if there is a difference?) The outrageous use of our worldly goods, investing in the kingdom, investing in hope.
I see the rich man and lazarus parable connected directly to last week's verses on faithfulness. If we are not faithful with a little bit (worldy funds) then we will not be given the great riches (spiritual riches). Joy in Atlanta
Date: 9/22/2004
Time: 8:26:04 PM
sorry, I posted the above entry for the wrong verses. Oops. Joy in Atlanta