One idea I've used for All Saints Day or Memorial Day... before is to send a letter a couple of weeks prior to the celebration of All Saints Day...to all the people who have had a loved one die in the congregation... (those whose services I had or were held in the church's sanctuary)... and then I had a gal (Actually Julie Wolf, a lay person from Minot, ND) she came up with the idea on her own, she does it during Memorial Day weekend...) you ask for three pictures... happy times, sad times, family times... then they are made into slides, it takes a day or so to get them back... we also made slides that said... "In loving memory of ____________" Faith UMC'S family includes... (name or list the relatives who survive them) then the birth and death dates... then we time it to music, usually just instrumental... however, last time we did it before my move to the current church I serve, I found a piece by John Denver, one of the last songs he wrote prior to his sudden and tragic death... it is entitled... "All this Joy..."
The words go something like this... "All this joy, all this sorrow... all this promise, all this pain.. . such is life, such is meaning... such is Spirit... such is Joy..." etc. etc... it is a beautiful song...
then, you darken the lights of the sanctuary and it becomes a silent, yet coorperate prayer of the congregation... the last slide reads... "In loving Memory of ALL the Saints who have witnessed to us through their faith and their lives.."
It is a powerful medium...
One year we had a picture of a grandmother reaching up to pick an apple off a tree, almost as if she was taking the hand of God... other times you see the smile of a grandparent for a grandchild... etc. etc... picture DO speak a thousand words of hope... to future generations... children are messages we send to a time we will never see...
Blessings to you all,
pulpitt in ND or pulpitt@att.net
Wonderful Idea!! I just don't think I have time to pull that together for this year! I will have to remember it for next year! Our church kicks off its 125th anniversary celebration this Sunday. We thought All Saints Sunday would be a good time to kick off the celebration with remembering those who have been faithful in the past, and all our present "saints"!! Not sure yet how to tie Luke's beatitudes into this! Katrinka in Iowa
What does anyone think about the idea that goods, happiness, wealth, and popularity block us off from recognizing (and clinging to) our constant need for God?
Happy are those who are in a position to be fully aware of their need for God!
I set before you blessing and curse, good and evil (Deuteronomy 30:15-20)
I set before you blessings and woes .....
Choose life!
There is such an interesting comparison here. We are called to live into the values of God, to see the world the way God sees us, to embrace the enemy as a child of God.
tom in ga
Just a note... this is also the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church. To combine these two days - remembering our own loved ones who've gone and those who've given their lives for the faith - it couldn't be more appropriate.
Those who suffer persecution ask us to pray. What do they ask us to pray for? Most often, perseverance, the ability to hold on, but the one that sets me to weeping is, they ask us to pray that they will love their persecutors. I can't even imagine doing that. I suspect they've uncovered the sacred secret Jesus was pointing us to in Luke 6.
JG in WI
My sermon, a simple baptismal service piece based on the "Golden Rule" can be found at
http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/csermons/allsaints-c-y2k+1.htm
Thanks and blessings, Eric in KS
Previous:
Why in the world does the lectionary progresssion take us back to Luke 6? Is this a misprint? What's the singnificance?
OKBob
This is the alternative lectionary for All Saints. The other suggested gospel is Matthew 5:1-12.
In our congregation, this is stewardship Sunday. My sermon will need to address stewardship. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Pam in San Bernardino
To Pam
Blessed are you poor. Woe to the rich. Wow! Better sell everything and give it to the poor and follow Jesus, if we are ever to get through that needle's eye!
KenTucky
Pam, if I were using this for a stewardship text, I think I would be pointing out all the wonderful ministries to the poor and hungry we can be a part of as good stewards for Christ. 6:30 Says give to all who beg of you. I think that gets to the heart of the matter.
Hope the sermon goes well!
ST
I will be using the text from Luke 19:1-10 and preaching on "A Little Man with Big Faith." It relates to the theme of giving away all your money and following Jesus, which all of us could probably hear again. Our society has a theology of scarcity (as Tony Campolo calls it) where we think there are only a few "new cars" or "new t.v.'s" so we had better run out and get one right away before they are all gone. All our resources become as important as air! Some people eat that way . . . like someone else is going to grab the food from in front of them - scarfing it down or inhaling it before it is all taken away. And the reality is that most of the time we aren't really all that hungry to begin with . . . and missing a meal or fasting is something we never do unless it relates to the youth 30 hour famine! Give me a break. Most people in my church never miss a meal - me included.
I'm also getting tuned into being debt free thanks to Financial Peace written by Dave Ramsey - I highly recommend it.
Art in KY
Way to go Art! I've been impressed with Ramsey's ministry leading people to debt-free living. I wonder how his emphasis on mutual funds would stand up to against O. T. warnings against usury. Just wondering. Maybe I'll hear you on one of his debt-free Fridays!
KenTucky
Way to go Art! I've been impressed with Ramsey's ministry leading people to debt-free living. But, I wonder how his emphasis on mutual funds would stand up against O. T. warnings against usury. Just wondering. Maybe I'll hear you on one of his debt-free Fridays!
KenTucky
(who should edit his comments before submitting them!)
There was a particular translation of Scripture from the 1960s, the first edition of the New English Bible, I believe, which rendered this passages, "How happy are you ...", rather than, "Blessed are you". Even if the translation is a bit more accurate, I note with bemused interest that it didn't exactly catch on, and has not become the standard of the day. We still struggle to find the meaning behind the rather enigmatic "blessed".
For myself, I must confess that I have never done "delayed gratification" very well. When I was a child, it was always, "wait until you are grown, Dear". When I was a young adult, it was always, "wait until you have more experience (the 'Dear' having been dropped for reasons of political correctness). "You can't have your dessert until you eat your spinach", Jesus seems to be saying. Whether it be "happy" or "blessed", I chaff at the instruction to "wait".
Yes, yes, I know, there is a difference between "my time and God's time". Yes, yes, I know that the good news of the Gospel always speaks more profoundly to the poor and dispossessed. And, yes, yes, I know, Jesus is ever enigmatic, turning things upside down and inside out. It's just once that I would like to hear, "Rejoice TODAY and leap for joy, for surely your reward is great...!"
Oh, come on, Jim, stop your nagging! Where's the good news? The good news is that we find our "blessedness" (i.e., our happiness) not in doing for ourselves, but in doing for others. "Love, bless and give," Jesus says. Sounds good to me.
Jim
Art in KY, Thanks for the recommendation of Ramsey's book........I'll be looking for it. With student loans hovering and other accrued debts from years of theological study, I'm secretly hoping for the Jubilee year in the truest sense of the word!
As for the text this week, I am hoping to focus on the All Saints Day aspect of the day. I think I would like to look at the "invisible" saints among us....the ones that are easy to miss, who quietly go about the work of Christ without fanfare or applause. These are very early musings, but that seems to be my starting point for now....
SueCan
Ever since I've been at Island Grove, I've used All Saint's Day to celebrate the lives of those who've died in the faith over the past year (from All Saint's to All Saint's). I grew up in the military, and to me Memorial Day is for war dead, not Christian saints. I think, perhaps this passage was selected -- wouldn't we like to get behind the minds of the lectionary committee???? -- as examples/rules/whatever for becoming a saint. If you do all these things, you will be counted among the saints. Any comments?
I didn't say anyone COULD do all those things . . . just if they did, they would surely BE a saint. Can anyone give a brief description of the Roman Catholic procedure to sainthood?
RevJan
The Greek word that is translated "saint" is hagios, which means "set apart for God's use." We usually think of a "saint" as a sort of super-Christian, but Paul addressed all the Christians at Ephesus and at Corinth as saints. The Corinthians were a pretty "un-saintly" lot from the sound of his letters.
I suspect we are all called to be "set apart for God's use." I'm willing to accept that description, but I resist the handbook for my behavior that I find here!
AL in OR
RevJan,
I've found this article on the 'net dealing with your question. Hope it helps. It's at http://www.sun-sentinel.com/freetime/10030007.htm
I can tell you that the idea of beatification scares me a little. I believe it to be on that slippery slope toward idolatry. I believe there are many who deserve special attention because of the sacrifices made in service to God. But the Scriptures teach us that all of us who believe are saints. My mother and her sister are Catholic. They've told me of those who bury figurines of saints in their yards for good luck (apparently, the figurine must be upside down for it to be effective... go figure). That kind of stuff has pagan roots. It's simply too bizarre!
Rick in Va
Oops, in my haste I believe I pasted the wrong article... try this one: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/freetime/10030010.htm
There goes my 'sainthood'...
Rick in Va
Dear SueCan,
I noticed your posting last week on children not being welcome in church. I am in a church where the sentiments have been the same. When i came I asked for pictures of everyone, so i could learn the names in advance (being a slow learner.) Many came with comments like "Sue & John Jones, and children). Parents told me their children weren't welcome. I began doing small things, and continue to do small things to change that. During announcements, we talk about what the kids are doing in Sunday school. Soon we will hold coffee hour at Sunday School, so we can admire their African village (we are studying Christianity in Africa). I have preached about God calling us out of our comfort. Kids are out of their comfort zone, just trying to behave in church. Adults, just allowing for the extra noise. And I have (gulp!) scheduled Sunday School after church, with the kids in the whole service. (Yes, we have a nursery.) We are the body of Christ. The body of Christ is imperfect. Noisy, sometimes, also whining and grumpy. Gee, we have an 80-year old lady who tears into the goodies every Sunday before dismissal, and she is the Body of Christ. For our denom. (Episcopal) we must honor children and meet them where they are, or allow the church to decline. Too bad they aren't quiet like 50 years ago. Fifty years ago the old people only lived till 65 or so. Things change. God treasures us all, anyway.
Prayers for you, Sue. And courage for us all. Jesus said 'let the children come.' Come Holy Spirit, and ignite us with a passion for God, greater than all our pettiness! (Mine, especially....)
HW in HI
(yeah, we got Halloween, and malls and traffic and drugs, and new age, and fundamentalists, and beaches and bikinis and surfers. And All Saints.)
On the Feast of All Saints, there will be two baptisms - I need help discussing the beatitudes (with those woes) in relationship to the baptism - any help would be appreciated.
Tom in GA
Tom in Ga. I had a baptism last week, praise God! If I were baptising this week, I would go with the Ephesians scripture: putting the seal of Christ on their foreheads. We are His and He is ours.
Tom & RevJan (and all!), I struggle with the notion that I don't see much blessing/happiness amidst poverty, mourning, hunger, etc. Is this scripture really true? It helps to remember that Jesus is talking here about true discipleship which will naturally lead to persecution. Those who are blessed are those who are faithful to the point of persecution; those who are "woed" (?) are those who think life/faith is about being comfortable. But we aren't persecuted in America, so what do we do? Will we ever know the blessing that Jesus promises to saints here? Or put another way, will we ever be saints enough to receive the blessing? It occurs to me that perhaps vs. 20-26 are primarily descriptive, while vs. 26-30 (and following) might be prescriptive. In other words, if you want to be a blessed saint in America, the answer isn't to go get poor and hungry and grief-stricken. The answer is to love your enemy, bless those who curse you and curse those who bless you, give more than others try to take from you (to the IRS????!), and give to EVERYONE who begs from you? Now there's a sure plan for becoming poor, hungry, grief-stricken, reviled, and perhaps even crucified. And sainted --- not because it will make you perfect (although in the long run it might), but because it will set you on the road to the cross in the footsteps of Jesus. Because it will give you a chance to live a salty faith. Because it will wear you out and beat you down, and you won't look a thing like those white-robed, shiny saints in the pictures, but your fingernails will be caked with mud and your face will be streaked with sweat and you will become a laughing stock. Stuff I don't have the courage to do, personally. Kyrie eleison. Kay
For those who may be using this week's text in the setting of Sunday, November 1st, as the Feast of All Saints: First, Rev. Jan, you may find the more recent volumes of the Catholic Encyclopedia at your local library. The most recent edition, and annual updates, may be of the best source in your search for information on the canonization process and about "saints" in general. The 1913 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia can be found on the net. Beware, it is outdated regarding contemporary insights on the topic....Second, Catholics and other liturgical traditions, celebrate the feast of All Saints (Nov. 1st) followed by the Feast of All Souls (Nov. 2nd). I mention this because these two feasts together capture some sense of the the communitarian and mystical qualities, once reflected in the expression of the "Communion of Saints", i.e., the "canonized saints" (whose lives are a "measure" for our own aspirations), deceased family members and friends held dear in our memories and prayers, and those of us still on earth growing in virtue and struggling to honor our faith commitments.... Third, while I applaud those preachers and communites who honor their seniors and elders, as our "forgotten saints," I personally think that at their age they would also appreciate the assurance that they will eventually (after death) be included in that "great cloud of witnesses" and be part of our on-going Communion of all the Saints!... Finally, I hope this more poetic sense of "saints" is helpful to my beloved friend, Rick in VA. I found it ironical that many recent posting defended children among us at our Sunday services. (In this discussion Rick, cast his vote with the orderly elders). Rick, apparently you also seem to find it difficult to accept the "older children" among us in worldwide cultures who bury statues of saints upside-down! Like little children in our pews, such "adult-children," can be a bit of an embarrasement as well. However, Rick, it will take more than a village of puritans to raise all of God's children to the strictures of Bibical canons! (Pardon me, Rick, I could not resist the irony!) To all you struggling and desperate saints... .Happy Feast Day on Sunday! Gregory in Dot, MA
Oops, I meant that the prescriptive part starts with v. 27. Sorry. Kay
Tom in Georgia:
Perhaps my reflections, posted earlier today, October 26, would also be of some assistance to you for the two Bpatisms, which you will be celebrating on Sunday, All Saints Day. It is into the Communion Saints (poetic and mystical sense) that the newly baptized are received through the Lord's death and resurrection. See the above posting. I hope it got through to DPS. Gregory in Dot, MA
Tom in Ga All Saints day is wonderful for baptism, I may well use it next year. And the Luke text can tie the whole thing; We are baptised into a community of faith {all saints} and the community must respond to the sacrament of baptism by vows to love & support for thier new member. The saints of your community {if they are anything like mine} are not winged, white robed, glowing, and always praying - More often the are struggling financially, and spiritually, praying for their enemies as best they can, supporting the work of God as best they can, and finding in their trials, a sense of satisfation {blessing} which cushions the cruel blows of this world. No one who sets out to be a saint makes it, rather those who feel unworthy, and thus strive all the more, are the ones recognized by others as saints. This is what your baptized are getting into, a community of blessed, and struggling saints lifted ultimately by the love of God. Peace, PAB
To HW in HI, Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions! I like the idea of announcing the Sunday School activities -- after all, this is an important part of the life and work of the congregation. Good stuff......
Has anyone read a book called "St. George and the Dragon" by Edward Hays? I read it some time ago and no longer have a copy. In the first chapter, Hays describes how the "St." in the title actually refers to "Sent" rather than "Saint", and implies that we are all as Christians part of the "sent-hood" of God's people. These are early musings, but I like what that says about all of those saints among us that struggle as PAB described, but are faithful seekers of Christ's way.
SueCan
Gregory in DOT MA,
I'm a bit slow and haven't been to seminary yet and so sheepishly wonder what it is meant by the following statement: "Rick, apparently you also seem to find it difficult to accept the "older children" among us in worldwide cultures who bury statues of saints upside-down!"
I accept (less than perfectly but then who does so perfectly) all people. I don't accept all behaviors. If it was clear that God calls us to bury figurines in the ground as a means to get to know him better then I would be soon be signing my posts here in the DPS as Rick "the Mole" in Va. I haven't come across that Scripture yet. Maybe a someone can point me in the right direction. Scripture does say a ton about idolatry. In my view of Scripture, it seems that this practice borders on being idolatrous. This view does not in any way mean I don't 'accept' practitioners of the ritual, I simply find no Scriptural basis for the behavior nor any valid traditional teaching on same. Quite the contrary, I see the buried figurine as a substitute for Christ's advocacy to the Father on our behalf. We should be going to Christ with all petitions, although I find it difficult to go to Him for the pressing need of "good luck".
Also written was the aentence "However, Rick, it will take more than a village of puritans to raise all of God's children to the strictures of Bibical canons!" The strictures of Biblical canons is an interesting phrase. Maybe you could explain it further to me by e-mailing me at rrice@bcharrispub.com. I'm assuming (hopefully wrongly) that the puritans comment was meant as sarcasm. If so, I'm curious as to how my desire that children not be allowed to misbehave in or during a worship service would logically lead to an assertion concerning a village of puritans raising children or as means to block the access of these children to God. As a father of 2 boys, I need all the help I can get. I haven't figured out yet what the secret to child-rearing is but I can tell you this quite honestly, I would rather seek the counsel of a village of puritans than a village of secular educrats attempting to experiment on my children with the latest God-less theory on child rearing.
Rick "not a mole... yet" in Va
Art: I, too, have decided to use the Wee Little Man text as the alternate gospel text. Since it is stewardship Sunday, I intend to focus on Zaccaeus' response to his encounter with Christ, and also to talk about some other dramatic encounters. However, the real thrust of my sermon will be for those of us who have known Christ for a long time. Our encounters may not be dramatic, but they are very real. And they call for a response from us. Can we who are long term Christians learn from the enthusiasm of Zacchaeus as he responds to his encounter with the Christ? I'd appreciate any thoughts from any of you about the potential for God's word to speak through this message. I'm rather new at this.
Pam in San Bernardino
Hello all!
I always look forward to ALL SAINTS. It seems as though it is an opportunity to give the person in the pew a "red letter day;" it's the feast day for all of us. It's a good time to tie into our being sanctified, made holy, set apart, by virtue of our baptisms. Is anyone going in the direction of "ordinary saints?"
Bill Adams Trinity Episcopal, Sutter Creek, CA.
Hi Bill in Sutter Creek!
I like the idea of ordinary saints. I am hoping to tie in some every day souls with saintly styles (just gotta find them) with actual saints. I suppose it is tacky, but I plan to tie in All Souls and All Saints. I've asked our people to provide the name of their favorite saint(s) -- living or dead. Ahhh, the very first name on the list, in a childish scrawl, was "St. Nickeles". The only other saint I got was St. Francis. I am wanting to tie the good lives of these with the good lives of some more touchable people. My spiritual director used to tell me, "All the saints, if you look closely enough, have feet of clay." In this day of scrutiny, I guess the clay feet overwhelm us. My own favorite is Saint Martin Luther King, Jr. And we all know of his feet....
Just musing!
Aloha, HW in HI
PS to Rick in VA: I know what you mean. Noisy kids can annoy us. But times have changed so much. It is such a joy to have them with us. In our struggle to encompass the whole body of Christ, I do believe we find him. A few years ago a 6 year old girl in my parish gave me the theme for a whole sermon. She was explaining why she wanted to go to the local Christian school. "In my school kids p-r-e-y and that is okay, but they cannot p-r-a-y." This from an unruly 6 year old who ran down the aisle. I know it is a struggle, but some kids are sit-still-challenged. They still deserve to be in church if it can possibly happen, methinks.
Rick, as children, we would dig holes in the back yard looking for buried treasure. Occassionally we would find a penny, or dime! More than not we found medals, St. Christopher, the Blessed Virgin. My parents explained that people used to bury them for good luck. So, I was very interested in the fact that some faithful still bury objects of faith. Although I personally view the act more as superstition, something passed down from the old country, I am grateful that the faithful are believing in God. My guess is that hopes and prayers are lifted with the act, as foreign as it is to me. God is surely big enough to receive such prayers. What does God think of the act? I think He looks at their hearts. This Sunday, I will be using the "Cloud of Witnesses" scripture also. Blessings, LS
TO THE IDEA OF BAPTISM ON ALL SAINTS' DAY, ONE WAY TO GO (oops, sorry about the caps) but one way to go is to use the day to remember those saints who have gone on to their eternal reward in heaven and contrast or compare that with those being baptized just beginning their journey. STAN
To HW in HI, Ordinary saints! What a wonderful idea. As a lay person, I enjoy All Saints' Day in our church because we always sing the hymn that goes in part: "I sing a song of the saints of God--patient and brave and true, who toiled and fought and lived and died for the Lord they loved and knew.
And one was a doctor, and one was a queen, and one was a shepheress on the green: they were all of them saints of God--and I mean, God helping, to be one too.
They lived not only in ages past, there are hundreds of thousands still, The world is bright with the joyous saints who love to do Jesus' will. You can meet them in school, or in lanes, or at sea, in church, or in trains, or in shops, or at tea, for the saints of God are just folk like me, and I mean to be one too."
Best wishes and thanks for the wonderful insights you share with us all.
HW in HI,
I hope that my comments are not being misunderstood to mean that kids don't belong in church. They absolutely do. I don't want the millstone around my neck that would come from preventing them from being there. I'm asking, quite simply, that they behave. Infants and toddlers do represent special cases but I was gearing the gist of my comments to the 8 years and over crowd who ought to know how to restrain themselves, at least, during a service. Is this really that horrific an idea? I would hope not.
LS,
George Barna, of the Barna Research Group, has found compelling evidence that one reason why the Church, and most individual believers, have little influence is because most Christians do not understand even the most basic realities of their faith. I think that burying figurines is a superstition as you've mentioned and is an example of the ineffectiveness that Barna speaks of. I think of Paul standing on Mars Hill speaking to the religious (superstitious) Greeks who had built an altar TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Paul states (Acts 17) that in the past God would overlook such ignorance but now He has revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and it is the resurrection that proves the foolishness of those who ignore Him as mediator. Jesus Christ is not an UNKNOWN GOD. Let's teach strongly that he is our only advocate and mediator and should alone stand as the object of our faith, not in superstitions. LS, you ask "What does God think of the act? I think He looks at their hearts." God's revealed Word is our best gauge of what God 'thinks'. His Word tells us that He does not think highly of superstitions. Let's teach His Word to those who practice superstition. Let's not be motivated by legalism but by a desire to teach how beneficial and satisfying it is to know and be known by a deeply personal and loving God who has given us His Son Jesus Christ.
Rick in Va
To Pam(!), and Art, and other rebellious ones,
I had already started cooking this weekend's sermon based on the Luke 19:1-10 pericope when my senior pastor gave me the title in his sermon last weekend. He related a time when he had visited to a family early in his ministry, then ran into one of the children some years later. She had said, "Rev. D., you've grown!" He explained that this was after he had had his "growth spurt" that took him from 4'11" to a statuesque 5'5". So, how could I resist using Zacchaeus?
The early plan is to develop the profound spiritual growth that Zach experienced with the growth each of us can expect when we acknowledge the Holy Spirit in our hearts, whether we have been raised in the faith or not. It's mid-stewardship time, so Zach's financial response to the change might be put into perspective of giving from a heart that has experienced growth in Christ. (This turns out to be the awareness of and a response to the needs of the "blessed" from 6:20ff! EGAD! A connection!) Zach gives out of the immense gratitude he experiences from the value of the gift of being found and returned to community/salvation when all had been thought lost.
Working title: "Growth Spurt"
Blessings: Rick in Sikeston, MO (Standing a towering 5 feet and 5 and one half inches.)
We celebrate All Saints Day at our church in spite of the fact that we are "low-church Protestants" (Disciples). In our bulletin on Sunday will be a list of the "ordinary saints" (thanks, HW!) from our congregation who have gone to be with the Lord. Our flock is small, and our history dates back only to 1981, so this is a complete list of our deceased members, now numbering fifteen. Now that we've been to settlement and own six acres of land on which to begin construction of our church building, one church member has suggested that we plant a "founders' grove" of trees to honor those who died in faith, who worked for the day we could worship in our own church building but did not live long enough to see it. (There are no trees on our land at present; soybeans are planted there.) We cherish the memory of these ordinary saints and honor them for the offerings of faith and service they gave to our relatively young congregation. Has anyone else done something similar?
Bill in SoMD
It seems to me that this week's discussion is trying to avoid this passage altogether. . . hmm . . .it must be because the Beatitudes contain some of the hardest sayings of Jesus! I once heard someone refer to them as the "Law of the Gospel."
Perhaps, a connection to an All Saints celebration and the "Law of the Gospel" could be drawn by pointing out that, realistically, they are humanly impossible to keep! The 10 commandments are difficult--but I can handle them most of the time; turning the other cheek and loving my enemies, giving the shirt off my back--now that's a different story. If that's what it takes to be and become a saint, show me one--living or dead!! This reminds me of the disciples' question: "who then can be saved?" after Jesus' "camel through needle's ear" illustration.
But, if on the other hand it is true what someone pointed out earlier, namely that Paul calls the Corinthians "saints," maybe there is a third factor at work here, besides the Law of the Gospel and the way to "Sainthood." With God anything and everything is possible! Once again, it comes down to RELIANCE on God rather than myself. By God's grace the saints made it, with God's grace I ("ordinary saint") shall make it also--I just need to keep leaning on God's arm. Now that's a celebration that puts God right in the center of our praise!!!
Frank in PA
For many people the idea of praying straight to God is scary. God as a brimstone and fire-breathing all-powerful punisher is just too much. So the idea of praying through one who has known our human frailties is pretty appealing. And rightly, that one is God - God the Son. And so, those saints become windows. Not the end, just windows to God. And any window anyone can find and use should be acceptable. If we find God by considering Mary, why not? The arguments of old: iconodules and iconoclasts come to mind. But in truth, a path to God is a path to God. Whether it is yours or mine is not so very important.
Recently I had a discussion with a local clergy group, like this one, but in the flesh. The concept of church members leaving for another denom. came up. In the end, we said that if one of our members was unhappy, wasn't nourished and expressed a spirituality that seemed Baptist, or Congregational, or Roman Catholic -- we would happily introduce the two, each to the other. For our goal must be helping others to find God, wherever they find God. How quickly i would take one to meet Nail-Bender or Kay or many many others! Appreciating the wonder of human spirituality seems a good goal for us these days, when so many would tear the greater church apart. Yes, we are divided, but together we are so much stronger. Don't you think?
HW in HI
(Bluntly my point is: if one finds solace in a statue or medal of someone wonderful -- a saint -- who are we to disparage? Guide them, rather, that they too may share in God's eternal kingdom....)
All Saints' Day is not generally observed in my particular church denomination. However, the lesson from Luke 6 that follows the Blessed and the Woes seems to be a very preachable outline for what makes a Saint. The "Blessed and Woe" part of this passage was the lectionary appointed lesson on February 14, 1998.
THE QUALITIES OF SAINTHOOD
Love your enemies Bless those who curse you, Pray for those who abuse you. Offer the other cheek Give to everyone who begs from you Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Greg in CT
All Saints' Day is not generally observed in my particular church denomination. However, the lesson from Luke 6 that follows the Blessed and the Woes seems to be a very preachable outline for what makes a Saint. The "Blessed and Woe" part of this passage was the lectionary appointed lesson on February 14, 1998.
THE QUALITIES OF SAINTHOOD
Love your enemies Bless those who curse you, Pray for those who abuse you. Offer the other cheek Give to everyone who begs from you Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Greg in CT
I read recently that the beatitudes are nothing more than short sayings which may be easily memorized for the faithful and they are really summaries of the Sermon on the Mount and other scripture - so it is always hard to preach on these things. Yet we are to be a people of the beatitudes and live a life of simplicity and grace. How we do that I don't know. Holiness plays into these readings as well for All Saints. What help may you offer?
Tom in GA
We have asked our congregation to bring to the All Saints worship service pictures of those who have gone ahead of us. That sounds kind of funny but I deleted died because it didn't sound right eigher! Anyway. We will invite everyone to share with a pew mate some thing about their special picture before they bring the to the altar. We hope to be surrounded by the pictures of that invisble cloud of witnesses as we come to the Lord's table.
Eston
Some useful comments from PROPERTALK: A child who was asked "what is a saint?", thought of the saints in her church's stained glass windows and responded- "A saint is someone through whom the light shines".
The Beatitudes connects with All Saints because these are people through whom the light of God has shone, especially in adversity.
For Children: place a mirror in the bottom of a box and invite the children to look in the box to 'see a saint'.
Finally, as we celebrate saints who were generally also martyrs, what does this say about those who advocate euthanasia?
Revd Bryan Shattock Anglican Parish of West Nedlands WESTERN AUSTRALIA Homepage- http://www.upnaway.com/~phantom/Andrew
"Yet we are to be a people of the beatitudes and live a life of simplicity and grace."
Thanks, Tom, for that beautiful phrase. I think that the life of simplicity and grace is something that resonates deep within us. It was what people in 1st c. Judea admired in Jesus; it's what drew me as a teenager to tune in to the adventures of Quait Chang Caine (spelling?); its what drew millions to watch the movie Forest Gump. The Beatitude Attitude (as our VBS program put it) is a way of life in simplicity.
In these obviously hard sayings of Jesus lie the secret of a lifestyle of inner peace and harmony with God and the world that empowers us to rise up to any occasion in the name of God.
When it comes down to the nitty gritty: God is calling us to a life of simplicity and grace. The gospel is simple. And yet we always tend to make it more complex than what it really is.
I am one who advocates that children be a part of the worship service. Not only in the pews, but involved in other ways. One time, the Sunday School superintendent told me they had a song based on the Lord's prayer. I had them sing it after the pastoral prayer. I felt this made it a part of the worship rather than just something the children did to entertain the congregation. But at the same time, I believe they need to learn to keep quiet in the service (and our do a good job because we explain over and over the need to be quiet at certain times during the service). I am especially sensitive to this need because of my hearing impairment. I have 70% loss and use hearing aids. I do hear well, but when there is more than one voice speaking, forget it! That's why I don't like parties too much. So, if children (and even adults) are talking during the service, I cannot hear the pastor preaching or the Scripture being read or the prayer being prayed. So I think there is a need to teach stillness out of respect for others to hear what is being said.
Any way, this leads me to something I hope some of you will help me with. We will be remembering those who have died in the last year. I had cards handed out and asked people to write down someone the name of someone who have died in the last year that they would like to honor during the service next Sunday. Well, one child has written, "My dog Boomer."
I have been struggling with this issue. Do I go ahead and include Boomer in the list of those who have goone on to be with God or would I be trivializing the whole ceremony? I don't want to trivialize anything and yet, this dog was special to a child. Please, what are your thoughts and feelings on this?
Thank you, Brandon in CA
It was Thanksgiving Day. in houses all across the city families were gearing up for the promised feast. Indeed, in our kitchen there was enough food to feed twice as many as the 25 in our family. The turkey was stuffed, potatos readied for steaming and mashing, Jenny's favorite corn casserole, cranberries - the list goes on and on.
Two of the children and their families had already arrived at noon when it began to look a little stormy, and by the time the others had come, it looked pretty bleak outside. But the grey, cold darkness outside only served to heighten the glow inside as the din of grandchildren playing and siblings sharing memories of the "good old Thanksgivings we used to have" filled the house.
And then it happened. The storm hit and the lights went out. Within and hour, we knew that we would have to resort to alternative measures as it appeared the storm would rage for awhile and the radio reported that power was out throughout the entire city. Heroically braving the wind, one of the boys went out and hauled in firewood and started a fire in the fireplace. We lit the barbecue outside and calculated how we would use it to get the turkey roasted and decided to make do without gravy. The girls went out to the garage and resurrected an old hibachi and some coal and built a fire onver which we would boik the potatoes. The children were delighted with the candles and flashlights that flikered in the house and soon we were making shadow puppet show on the wall, singing, and playing simple games to pass the time.
We talked a lot that Thanksgiving - there was no TV. We played games and shared time in a way that we could not have with all the comforts and conveniences that we were used to. My 7 year old grandson asked if this is how people who have no stoves and lights live. and I wondered about it then as I do not. Perhaps there is "vision" that gets obscured with too much comfort.
Everyone agreed it was the best of Thanksgivings. The media went on at length at how much communication and meaningful interaction occurred in most homes. And I learned - from a seven year old - that those who have less than me, and those who have nothing, have something that I do not.
Jesus' message illustrates that until we put aside the comforts of our wealth, we cannot see the true blessings that we have. How many watch TV only to miss the sunset. How many are committed to supporting a lavish lifestyle while others go hungry?
A couple of ideas for All Saints-- we are having communion by intinction. After people are done with communion, they are invited to take a candle (the ones we use for Christmas Eve candlelight services) from a basket in the front pew and light it (from one of the two acolytes who are standing nearby) in honor of a saint in their lives. Taking the lighted candle back to the pew, we will then close the service singing "Sing With All the Saints in Glory." We did this last year, and it was a meaningful service for many.
I know of a pastor who is going to do a slideshow--pictures of the older members from long ago, plus current pictures--while playing a Bob Carlisle song--I don't know the name, but it's something like "Sinners Fall Down, Saints Get Up." I've heard it's on the CD released after the "Butterfly Kisses" CD.
Hope these ideas help.
Rick in Va,
Thanks for the information on saints. It's just what I want to share with my children in church-- short, sweet, and to the point. I don't think any of us who are parents have a handle on parenting, yet. That's why I often consult the living saints -- grandparents! Even if I don't take their advice, I have it.
About children in church. Last Saturday night I conducted a worship service (30 minutes) for 101 Weeblo Scouts (5th graders) and a parent. It was part of a weekend for them to learn about becoming a Boy Scout in 6th grade. We sang "Kum Ba Yah" to get them settled down, "Noah" to get them moving, and "He's Got the Whole World . . " We interspersed it with prayers, two brief messages (one from me, one from my 13-year-old Scout), etc. Several people there, and since have mentioned how much they enjoyed the service. Why? (1) It was a camp service, not a full blown Sunday morning worship. (2) They are children, who's attention span is short. We structured this service for that. Would I always do this on Sunday? No. Do I sometimes do it for camp/VBS, etc? Yes. Most of the time children 'misbehave' in church (or behave like children . . .) is when they feel left out, excluded, and NOT part of the worshiping community. It is up to the community to help them become a part of the community. So often I see parents shhshing their children instead of helping them find the scripture lesson in the Bible, or showing them how to follow a hymn.
To make children feel welcome and part of worship, have them sit in the front pew (very front) with teachers, or parents behind. Give them a chance to find their place in the hymnal/Bible -- or better yet, assign adults to help them find those places. We have our childred mark their hymnals before church starts. Wait until ALL God's children are on the same page (literally) -- you will know this if the kids are up front. Based on an idea from Focus '98, I now include icons in the margins of my worship bulletin that let children know when we are praying, singing, etc. Yes, sometimes they need to be reminded, but they know what they're supposed to do. We found the children were taking the larger-type bulletins meant for older adults, so now I print everything in 13 point type. A small change, but easier for everyone, especially me, now I don't have to print two different bulletins.
About saints. I don't know any other than 'ordinary saints.' As I said before, I have always used this day to honor those of our congregation who have joined the heavenly saints in the past year. Someone has said Christians are those with one foot in this world and one foot in the next. We live in tension between the demands of the Kingdom and the attractions of the kingdoms. The saints I know are the ones who have struggled to leave a little more of the Kingdom in place of the kingdoms. They weren't always completely successful, but we have our 175 year old church because of their efforts. To me, that makes a saint. These people recognized that riches, full bellies, success in this world pulled them away from God. While they were tempted, perhaps by the 'woes' of this world, they were able to keep their eyes on the 'blessings' of the next. They have passed on to us the heritage of willing to be just a little different than the rest.
One more question. Frank, 3-4 PM, Saturday, is the chat -- Central Time, Eastern Time, or Hawaii Time (don't I wish???)
RevJan
Okay, it's late, I'm tired. That was 101 Weeblo Scouts and a parent for each!
Also, that should be willingness.
There were a couple of other blunders, but I know I'm forgiven those, too.
RevJan
Hey Brandon,
If it were up to me, I would probably include the dog this year, separately, and be clear next year to remember dogs and their kind on St. Francis day (as there might be others with this kind of loss). There was an article recently in The Living Church about an Epis. priest whose husband is a vet, and who does memorials for those who grieve the loss of pets. It seemed to be a decent theology (bless the mourners) and sensitive, too. I guess I am thinking that if the kids care enough to ask for a prayer, we should find a way to offer one...
HW in HI
Brandon,
I agree with HW in HI that you should include the dog's name on the list (and point out St. Francis Day). In addition, you may want to briefly share about the struggle you were having with this . . . and that taking this child seriously was very important to you--so important that you risked criticism. With that explanation you should be ok. If it doesn't work--claim that you are getting bad advice from "the Desperate Preachers."
RevJan,
I do live in a small world, don't I? The DPS chat conference is 3-4 pm Easter Time on Saturday, Oct. 31.
Frank in PA
ooops . . . that is: 3-4pm Eastern Time, Frank in PA
I'm still wrestling with the demands of Jesus' sayings here (even though most of them are put in the language of blessed or happy are you .. ). Does following Jesus really mean that I have to allow myself to be taken advantage off by everyone? Does it mean I have to give to every person who knocks at my parsonage door claiming poverty (rightly or wrongly)? Does it mean I literally cannot defend myself when attacked?
Living connected to my church, I get a lot of knocks on my door from needy people. Until recently, I handed out McDonalds coupons, food items, at times I paid motel bills, part of people's apartment rent (all without giving out cash). Then, my social concerns committee got on my case. They asked me not to use their fund or any church money for this purpose any longer. We have social agencies in town, so they gave me a stack of nicely printed fliers with all the agencies' names and phone numbers listed. That's the only thing I am supposed to hand out now. The reason: we give money to these agencies, giving to the needy is not that simple anymore because of drugs, etc; social agencies can take care better of "these people." I told them I understood and that I would comply with their recommendation, but in my heart of hearts I have doubts whether this is right--especially in light of the passage above . . . a 'connected' pastor
"Connected Pastor",
I do believe we should take the beatitudes literally, that we are expected to follow them. However, when we fail, God's grace is sufficient. I agree with Frank in PA who eloquently referred to the "Law of the Gospel".
I believe you should also follow your heart when it comes to giving. Could you use your discretionary fund (assuming you've been allotted one) and when that runs out or in addition give out the social agency flyers? I get a bit burned up when the Church passes the buck of social aid to the government. If the tithe were the rule rather than the exception, and the Church was "beatifically" rather than politically correct, we wouldn't need many of these government agencies.
Brandon,
I agree with HW and Frank, mention the dog, but explain the struggle.
HW,
In our local paper, a unitarian universalist 'priest' writes columns occasionally. Your mention of 'your' path to God and 'my' path to God not being important reminds me of the writings of this 'priest'. He ridicules all of Christendom, and praises his own theology of "all paths leading to God". Believe it or not, I agree with him. All paths do lead to God... and then there is judgment. Only those whose path was blazed by Jesus Christ first will be able to withstand that judgment. So if I may put that qualifier on your comments I would agree with you, although burying figurines is still something I firmly believe we should gently be correcting.
Rick in Va
(1). These sacred writings reveal a transcendental faith and/or style/mode of life. They are not for the one-day-a-week church member. An ultimate claim is made upon the disciple who dares to follow this faith driven mode of being . I would describe these scriptures as calling one into a way of life that transforms and transcends simply conventional faith where adaptation to the status quo socially, economically, historically, culturally, psychologically, emotionally, etc., occurs. Nothing short of the sacramental life is called for as one dares to Walk this Glory Road beyond the status quo...and beyond one day per week christianity escaping into the illusion of the past in the facade of "conservative, traditional, fundamentalism".... (2). These scriptures carry the imperative to be understood from an "eschattological" frame...... (3). These scriptures are relevant to the context of the Christian Year; namely, the sacred 'eve', All Saints Day, and All Souls day. The "anamnesis" or "presence" of Christ, I believe, comes not only in the Sacraments, Scriptures, and Witness of the Word (preaching), but also in the "re-living" of the Life of Christ in the Christ Year. All Saints Day is pregnant with the potentiality to represent the whole of the Sacred Year, day by day, as it lifts up the "significant others", the heros and heroians, who are our "standard bearers" of the "sacramental life" of transcendence. United Methodists have a resource in the Order of St Luke which I find helpful in this regard "FOR ALL THE SAINTS; A CALENDAR OF COMMEMORATIONS FOR UNITED METHODISTS". Wesley's Journal is filled with deep expressions of the significance All Saints Day had for him..."a day of triumphant joy" (1748); "a festival I dearly love" (1767); "a day I peculiarly love" (1789). On Nov. 1, 1766, wesley wrote; "God, who hath knit together his elect in one communion and fellowship gave us a solemn season at West Street, as usual, in praising him for all his saints. On this day in particular, I commonly find the truth of these words [by charles Wesley]; 'The Church triumphant in his love,...Their mighty joys we know,...They praise the Lamb in hymns above,...And wee in hymns beelow." If we used this source or other "traditional" sources to recognize day by day the ancient and more contemporary disciples who lived the life transcendentally, I believe we would come nearer Walking the Glory Road in the Presence of He who is not only the "stranger" but our Christ who has chosen us and who comes continually day by day to walk with us...his Presence closer than breath. PaideiaSCO in LA @aol.com
Thanks for all the input. This is tough stuff. Now and then--several times a year--I sit down and read Luke in one sitting. It is always a challenge and a check of priorities. Jesus in Luke is consistantly hard on the "rich." Luke 6 is nothing new, just more of the same. It seems to me, however, that it is a good time to be somewhat transperant. On nearly anyone's scale, I AM rich materially, not "filthy" rich, not only in an American but international context. The woe here is first on me. How I manage that in faith and humility should be freeing for my hearers, who saintly though they are love to shut their ears to anything but blessings. Lets listen together and anticipate the close of the Churchyear (Christ the King) where Luke 23:33ff has our King dieing AND DIEING IS WHAT WE MUST IN FAITH DO.
Dave in Delaware
A suggested sermon title for those of you planning to focus on ordinary saints: "PLAIN GLASS SAINTS"
Jeeva in Canada
Thanks Rick and Pam! I take mt rebelliousness from the King of Kings. Jesus was good at breaking out of the mold. He met with Zach and shattered people's expectations again. Hopefully we can do that even after knowing him for years and years. It helps to see some new growth to remember what that looks like. Seeing others getting juiced about meeting Christ charges my batteries. It's contagious. I've got a couple elders searching to rekindle the flames, and I've suggested a spiritual retreat. Visiting a retreat center can help. It is possible to get comfortable with a two dimensional Jesus, but being in the presence of the real deal makes it impossible to get complacent.
Art in KY
I, too, am doing All Saints today. Actually, my favorite key to get into this day with the congregation is the simple fact that All Saints' Day was created in the church year for all those minor or unknown saints who didn't have their own 'day.' We normally think of saints as the Mother Teresas or the Martin Luther Kings, but this day remind us that in our own guiet way in our own corner of the world we can ALL be saints. Paul used 'saints' when he spoke of the entire body of Christ. We can use those BIG saints to get off the hook, thinking sainthood is only for them. Not true! Rebecca in MD
Anyone going at these Lukan Beatitudes and Woes from the perspective of 'promise'? They are not steps on the ladder to heaven, they are not instructions for becoming one of God's ultra-special people (ie. saints). They are _descriptions_ of people, people who are accepted by God (and usually not by the rest of us!). Who is acceptable to God is not for us to decide; it's for God to reveal.
We do not have any baptisms this All Saints Day, so we are using a Baptismal Remembrance Liturgy to begin the service. Hopefully, some will see the point: the baptized are acceptable to God by God's choice. Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to respond and die!
Rick in Canada, eh?
Art, in Kentucky, who publishes Financial Peace?
Elliott, SLP in Iowa
Thank you for your comments on naming a dog for those who have passed away. I appreciate you comment. Incidently while checking around, I found out it was a young woman who is mentally retarded. She had not come to church since I came in July and this was the first Sunday she happened to be there since I came. But your comments have helped and I know what to do. Thank you all. It is wonderful to be able to have a group of friends who will listen and give suggestions and advices. I give thanks to God for DPS. And I will show it with my money too.
I'm going along the same line of thinking as Rick in Cananda is. That's why my sermon is titled, "How to Become a Saint." My emphasis is how God has made us his through baptism. The Beatitudes are descriptions of us as Christians living in the Spirit. When our minds are on Christ, we begin living these characteristics of disciples of Christ.
Thanks to whoever suggested the mirror in the box for the children to look in and see a saint. I tried to find your post, but I didn't want to wade through all the post line by line so I couldn't find who wrote it. But I will be using it and just wanted to say thank you for the idea.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I'm sure most of us knew it was Eastern Time, but I like that typo. That would make a good sermon topic: Christians live in Easter Time all the time.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I'm sure most of us knew it was Eastern Time, but I like that typo. That would make a good sermon topic: Christians live in Easter Time all the time.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I'm sure most of us knew it was Eastern Time, but I like that typo. That would make a good sermon topic: Christians live in Easter Time all the time.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I'm sure most of us knew it was Eastern Time, but I like that typo. That would make a good sermon topic: Christians live in Easter Time all the time.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I'm sure most of us knew it was Eastern Time, but I like that typo. That would make a good sermon topic: Christians live in Easter Time all the time.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I'm sure most of us knew it was Eastern Time, but I like that typo. That would make a good sermon topic: Christians live in Easter Time all the time.
Brandon in CA
Frank,
I agree with Brandon. And, if I can remember that far in advance, I might use his title this Easter when we change to Daylight Savings time (oh, what joy divine . . . changing to Daylight Time on Easter morn'!).
Do I dare sign my name?
RevJan
So many good thoughts - just wanted to share that the Sunday after my dog died, the church sec'y placed a small flower arangement on the floor beside my chair behind the pulpit, with my dog's name on it. This communion of saints is a good place to be sustained in loss. Thanks to whoever used the word "simplicity" - been reading Richard Foster's "Freedom of Simplicity", which I highly recommend. It has started me thinking: Jesus said to his disciples, not blessed are they who are poor, but blessed are you - I guess I'm reading into it a sense of decision to be poor - but seen through Foster's writing, deciding for simplicity/poverty is - well - to know what blessedness is. "'Tis the gift to be simple . . " Speaking of gifts, thanks, Frank, for this site that has gifted me in bizarre ways! kbc in sc
To Brandon: I would encourage you to mention the dog who's sad friend put "it" on the list. Seems to me one of the things "saints" do is teach us about love (as well as faith, or courage, or whatever). Pets are some of the best teachers of unconditional love. People's lives are sometimes forever changed by the unconditional love of a pet and I daresay the child in question is one. Some children have no one to take their woes to - and when Catholic children may be praying to saints, some non-Catholic children are pouring out there hearts to the dog who licks the tears off their face and never tells the secrets to anyone else. I've even known adults who had only experienced conditional, sometimes manipulative or even cruel behavior in the guise of love learn what true love is in the presence of a beloved pet. So bring up St. Francis, or talk about the things our everyday saints teach us and then say there is one last, unusual saint - and name the dog. Peace - HAWK in Ohio
The Didache (?) talks about the Two Ways: The Way of Life (The Blessed) and the Way of Death (The Woes): It suggests that this Sermon on the Plain presents a theological ethic for discipleship. What does it mean to follow Christ; or how does one know he or she is following Christ? What is the meaning of sainthood - to live in Christ (Blessed) or in self (Woes)? It seems to me that even as the baptized community we are always moving from the Way of Death toward the Way of Life - a journey which must be added with grace or would be impossible.
Tom in GA
to Brandon
yes include the name of the dog on the list of saints. There has been a sick dog that is very important to an old woman on the Berkeley Divinity School prayer list most of this fall. Most people don't even know it is a dog!
I don't agree that you should share your dilema about including this "best friend" on the list. that would only serve to raise the question and will make it seem like you did it to be patronizing to the child.
Wrestle with this dilema and then take a stand. Either the dog is a saint or not. If the dog makes the cut then go ahead and make a real statement about how a dog can be a saint and why this dog is a saint. Don't treat it as a joke and people will not laugh.
Cathyann in CT.
It seesm that we take this Saint thing too narrow sometimes.... thnking of only those "real" special people who have died.... We celebrate All Saints with everyone bringing a flower for a loved one, who has passed over. They process down the aisle to singing of "For all The Saints" place them in a basket.... those flowers are then taken out and transformed by two women who then bring this BEAUTIFUL flower offering up at the time of the Eucharist. By the way i can't see celebrating All Saints without a joyous Eucharist, and plenty of glorious music. I send a personal letter to every family who was buried by anyone in our church... about 1/2 are unchurched... we go out of our way to make a place for them... and have them bring a flower, picture of the loved one, and then come up and light a candle on a table set aside for the departed.... since they are often unchurched it is a time of significant ministry and inclusion.... especially if it involved a memember of the gay/lesbian community, who have so often... more often than not.... been excluded from the ministry of Grace for many congregations. This day is a day we usually present a special gift to 2 04 3 persons selected as Living Saints . They are not unblemished persons, but as Paul uses the term agios-set aside.... Lord we have so many in our congregations... and usually they are not the Top Dog choices.... God forbid.enjoying this site and the material i have stolen...borrowed from it. thanks.
to HW in HI.... is Fr.Peter Courtney online and part of this site?
Don in Elmira, NY donaldhoff@aol.com
A quick technical assist. If you're trying to find a particular post(by a certain person or about a particular phrase), do the following:
1) At the upper right hand corner of the lectionary text page (above the scripture text) click on the phrase prompting us to open a new window.
2) Your browser (Explorer, Netscape, AOL) ought to have a find utility. Once the text is in it's new window (step 1), try looking for the 'find' option under the 'edit' menu at the top of your screen, and click on it.
3) In the 'find' dialog box, enter the text you'd like to search for in the appropriate place and click on the appropriate button to start the search.
4) Happy huntin' (hopefully)...
Rick in Va
whoa - it is wednesday night - my 1st chance to get online this week, and i discover the scripture being Luke 6 and not Luke 19. i was glad to find out that i'm not alone in using Zacchaeus. I read that his name means "pure and just" is that true. also on the discussion about rich and poor - he was rich, plainly stated. and there was hope for him too - he was a son of abraham, who as one person pointed out, was a saint who was a liar (said sarah was his sister - not once, but twice). God somehow loves all kinds of us who have been unsavory, miss guided, and all sorts of shortcomings. i'm really not sure where i'm going yet this week. the story of Zacchaeus is difficult in the sense that we all think that we know it - and then one of my members said, "is that about the short man?" so maybe they don't know it as much as i think they do. also we already went into taxcollecting last week - i don't want to go into all that detail on that this week. the image i get ot this wealthy, possibly distinguished, man climbing a tree is funny. the people i know who sound like him wouldn't be caught up in a tree. the other image i have is of parades and trying to catch the eye of someone to throw you something. Pam, on your question about enthusiasm, my in laws tell a story of the 1st church they went to when my f-i-l was beginning ministry. there was a young woman there who had just joined the church, was teaching the adult sunday school class, was super gung-ho, reading the lesson while on the tractor and all. and these "old dear" (saint?) said to her something along the lines of you'll get bored and dull soon too. (i am going to have to get the qoute again from them.) i've heard this of others - instead of counting enthusiasm as a gift of God people want to make it that they're young, new, they'll get over it - ah that was what she said, " you'll get over it."
other comments: Dave Ramsay wrote Financial Peace. i use the envelope system, and have been doing great, but i think i'm going to have to use credit for Christmas.
children in my little church generally are drawn to the front row. the nice thing is before i got there they didn't have any children coming, so now everone is excited to have them there. different children are different. some can sit still, and some choose to stay the whole service. most leave after the children's sermon. and the people are excited because the children pay attention. they know what i say in announcements, and they remind me when i forget something. next week the whole service will be a children's service and i'm hoping to read a children's story even as the sermon. Any recommendations? about the dog - i found out one 6 year old boy was having trouble with God because he had been praying for God to heal his dog, and the dog died. i know lots of adults who are dealing with this when it comes to people dying.
maybe the whole congregation should look in the mirror to see a saint - because those children and many others are looking at them to find out about Christ.
Thanks be to God you uses us and our words despite our superstitions, shortcomings ( by the way I like Easter time too), and poor typing! - rachel
To Don in Elmira, NY -
Yes, Peter Courtney is here at St. Andrew's Cathedral, Honolulu. So far as I know I am alone (regarding our diocese) on this site. Prayers for Peter are in order, as he recently had heart-bypass surgery, is recovering & working some. (Thanks to all for indulging me these lines!)
Aloha, HW in HI
I will use the Luke passage this Sunday. In fact the bulletin cover will be a copy of it that was written by my confirmation class. Yest that is right 13/14 year old teens who made their onw copy of these rules to live by. They did a great job and it will be part of my sermon that if these kids and, since very body knows them and knows that they have a long way to go to sainthood can understand that this is how to become a saint with a small "s" then then as adults they should be able to set the example for the kids. As for children in the worship. When I came to this church children were not allowed. I have since changed that. Not only are they welcome, but take an active part in the worship service. they also design bulletin covers and on the whole behave in a way that children should in church, but my feelings are that they can not learn until and unless they are allowed in church. If the pastor builds a with them they will listen and can be taken aside and asked if they would please be a little quieter in church if they mis behave. I have found that there is nothing they will not do if they are loved just like the rest of us.
As for saints of the small "s" kind that is the only kind I preach about it helps the people know that there is hope.
MR in NY.
realtionship
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This Sunday is the second sermon I will give in my first church as pastor. I decided to do the Luke 19 text. I don't know the congregation well enough to talk about their 'saints' and I didn't want to tackle the Beatitudes on the second Sunday! But as a novice preacher I would appreciate any thoughts on the Zaccheaus text. Ann
An attempt to combine All Saints Sunday with the Zacchaeus text: Intro: This morning I received e-mail from STZACCHEAUS@LORD.COM. He said 1. Suggested changing the name of our church, Abiding Presence, to Saint Zacchaeus. It would be unique, at least in the lutheran church. 2. Yes, I was a chief tax collector who... No one like to pay taxes; politicians run on no new tax platforms. Taxes necessary. 3. Yes, I was rich. riches aren't wrong. It depends on what you do with them. 4. I was "Altitudinally challenged" climbed into a tree. Jesus looked up, etc. Crowd grumbled bec.. 5. At home, Jesus told us what he was doing and asked me what I was. "Half my possessions..." He smiled. Called me a son of Abraham bec. I loved God and was generous. Later, I heard he was arrested...His close friends assured me he rose from the dead... 6. then I remembered he had said "Today..." I am grateful to God... 7. I really am a Saint; a part of the communon of saint. You have many reasons to be happy on All Saints Day. Many of your friends and loved ones are with me, in the presence of Lord, in a way you cannot understand your side of the grave. 8. Saints are more than a few special people...Quote English hymn "I sing a song." Thanks for it Desparate Preacher! Closing: Change the name of your cong. to St. Z and I can see those windows depicting... 50% of what I have given to poor--no need for a stewardship program if you diid that! Remember me and what Jesus said to me and to you. "Today... end of E mail from STZacchaeus@Lord.com.
Rick in VA: I just want to thank you for giving us that hint on how to find something amongst all of the postings. I don't know about you, but the more I use this thing (computer), the more I realize I have yet to learn. I guess that goes the same for preaching, and parenting, and living . . . Joe in OH
To Brandon in CA I would include the dog because All Saints Day is also about us and about how we have be influenced by our relationships and our love for those dear to us who have departed this world. We remember how we loved and laughed and lived in ministry with those saints we have known. To a young child, a pet can be very near and dear, one who teaches us early lessons in life about love and care and joy and all kinds of other wonderful things. I would certainly include Boomer as one who has influenced the lilfe of his owners for the better and has given them great joy in life and probably caused them great sorrow when he died. To that child, his dog is a saint of sorts. Kel
Has anyone seem the marvelous film "Simon Birch?" Its based on John Irving's book "A Prayer for Owen Meany"--a marvelous book! Both are about a boy born 'handicapped' in the eyes of the world, but who feels intensely that he is detined for something important. Simon spends his life trying to figure out what that 'something' is, meanwhile working on his ability to hold his breath under water, a talent he has but doesn't know the purpose of. Needless to say, that talent that he has cultivated allows him to give his life so a busload of children can be saved. The great thing is that Simon is no plastic saint--he's sort of a stinker, too, getting into trouble at church and being a fairly normal boy who's fascinated by girls, etc. But this doesn't stop him from finally finding his purpose and fulfilling his destiny. If only we could all be so convinced that God has a purpose for us! We're all born to be saints of one kind or another.
As I understand All Saints Day, it was put on the calendar of saint days for those many minor and/or unknown saints who didn't get their own feast day. That fits in well, too.
As a stewardship link, which like many others seem to need at this time of year, what about stewardship of who we ARE as gifted and loved children of God. Stewardship of ourselves, our very souls, would have to come before stewardship of our wealth, time, and so on.
Thanks for the great ideas this week. Happy Feast Day! Rebecca in MD
Frank Schaefer want to thank you for creating this site... it serves a very real need, and it is obvious that perons respect and care for each other and their thoughts... Many unusual gifts are given across your site as spirits interact and are blessed. I find myself thinking all during the week about the insight and quotes as they are ground out between the minds of each other. It is sort of like the village of San Lucas Toliman in the highlands of Guatemala where i go for study/reflection and work for a few weeks each January..... the women get up each day about 5am to gather and grind their corn for the day's tortills.... the corn is prepared and soaked overnight... the taken to be ground out.... we are like our sisters of the corn-hermanas de maize.... we come together with our friends, learn from each.... and grind it out..... than cook it for our loved ones...the family and pass it out as bread for the journey.
don in central NY donaldhoff@aol.com
MRN - Chicago.
I often speak of the Beatitudes as "pointers" to the presence of God's reign. Or as evidence that God is "alive and well." This works better with 'the OTHER rendition.'
It seems to me that we are afraid to claim God's presence in our lives, and we need to name them when we see them.
When we see: love of enemies (antagonists, et. al.) doing good to those who hate you prayer for those who abuse giving up more than what is required etc,
We may be seeing evidence, of God's presence. That's not to say we are condoning abuse, but it suggests that when we see these things, we MAY be seeing God's presence, we have some evidence, or proof of that presence and "being set apart" for God.
PAX
Thanks Hawk! I was thinking along the same line, but hadn't thought about putting it in my sermon and you also put it so eloquently. Gives me an idea. I still have many back issues of Guideposts and I remember there were several articles about dogs making a difference in people's lives. Either teaching them or even saving their lives in unusual ways that causes people to believe God had sent them.
Thanks Rick! Just when I thought I knew enough about the computer, I find out more!
And thank you all. The more posting I read, encouraging me to include the dog, the more encouraged I became. It seems even when we know what to do, we gain more courage and strength when we know others are behind us, encouraging and supporting us. Thank you again.
Thank you SueCan for the St.--Sent connection. I was looking at Luke 6:29 and remembered a Chapel at School of Theology @Claremont -- my apologies to the speaker... I've forgotten your name. But he was sharing the socio-implications of shaming the one acting against you in a non-violent response. For example, to strike another you would first use the flat of your hand inward, to have to the other turn their cheek and you strike again would mean the palm of your hand would be outward (gently try this at home). Such a hand position was(is?) an insulting social act. So for someone to turn their cheek to allow you to strike them again would actually be shaming YOU. Same with giving someone your coat -- when you have only 2 (outer and inner clothes) for someone to in esesnce ask you to give the shirt off your back and you are left half naked -- you and they are both shamed by your nakedness. (Same for the other verses about carrying a Roman soldier's pack the extra mile -- they were legally allowed to ask you to carry it one mile, but two miles was against the rules,so if you carried a soldier's bag for that extra mile--THEY would get into trouble.) Jesus was as wise as a serpent and as gentle as a dove. Not being a doormat, but acting in ways of integrity and defiance of those who would hamper the work of the Kingdom. Saints may go and do like wise.
Brandon -- good to "hear" from you. I know your sensitivity to people's special needs speaks volumes to your congregation! Hillary in Ca
Oops, forgot to sign the above. But you probably already knew who it was.
Brandon in CA
Gaining inspiration from Sue Can's contribution, I've decided to title my sermon "Common Sents," basing it, obviously, on the fact that the saints are we common folks sent by God to do God's work.
WILLIAMS'S PEN FILLED With God's Spirit Again
DID I BLINK
Blessed happy fortunate are these words of Jesus today as he eyed his disciples and explained new thoughts and opposite ways
Oh Christian while seeking the kingdom of God among worldly ways at least Jesus verifies a new message for all today
Even a departure from Moses and the law as Jesus said "love your enemies" and upon hate do not call
Oh Christian while seeking the kingdom of God please consider both cheeks for Jesus was born among the poor lowly and meek
Rejoice leap for joy and do what you would want done for oh Christian that is the love spoken of by God and his son
Oh Christian while seeking the kingdom of God among our own ways Jesus set out a path which has his footprints even till today
Blessed happy fortunate are these words of Jesus today and Jesus can look us in the eyes if we will only follow him in this way
10/29/98
Oops - my mouse slipped and hit that ol' "submit" button too soon. Anyway, since I really liked the idea of the mirror, I'm planning on bringing in a large framed mirror, which I will place with its back to the congregation. And then, at the appropriate time, I will turn it around to show them some real saints in the church. Thank you, everyone, for your contributions - You have helped this beginning preacher tremendously. My blessings and prayers are for you and your churches. Still learning and enjoying every minute of it. . . Joe in OH
Dear friends,
I appreciate your thoughts on these texts "ordinary saints," - saints not being super-Christians, etc. Here are some reflections of my own.
It seems, Luke (Jesus, too, of course) consistently reminds us of "reversals" and of finding the kingdom in the strangest places. Therefore, it seems, that Jesus (and Luke) are inviting us to new ways of seeing and hearing and living and thinking and being in the world.
Through the eyes of faith we "see" the kingdom in the strangest places - among the poor, the hungry, the grieving the discontented ones - more so(?) - than where we expect to find it - among the rich, the full, the satisfied, the happy, the content.
We also need to be careful not to leave the impression that living this way is within OUR power, it is possible only by the work of God's Holy Spirit in us as the Spirit gives us eyes that really see and ears that really hear.
Living this "new" way - recognizing the presence of the kingdom in the strangest places - is not in order that God will save us - but is in response to God's saving grace in us and our desire to be God's new person in the world - for the sake of the world (for the sake of the poor, the hungry, the grieving, etc.) not for our sake.
Grace and Peace, Jerry in MN
Mae Howell, mother, cook, servant. Mae Howell, the ample woman who used to move through my grandmother’s home transforming the environment, bringing order and cleanliness, creating those unbelievable smells that would gently tease my nose and cause my stomach to growl – “feed me now.” Mae Howell, African-American, Black, that dignified “colored woman” with whom I would sit in the back of the bus as it rocked through the streets of Macon, Georgia, spewing nauseating fumes like some sick monster.
She used to take me with her everywhere and I was always glad to go. At four years old with no dad, the world would always seem a pretty confusing place, but whenever I was with Mae, things always seemed orderly – orderly and cleanliness – that was Mae. We would go and visit Mr. Buster down at the Piggly-Wiggly – he was the butcher there and would somehow always make candy magically appear from within that great white apron. With Mae, everybody was my friend. And then, as if life could get any better, after the market, we would come home and Mae would let me climb the step ladder right up to the top of the shelves where I would deposit a can of this or a can of that. I could stand so far up there I knew I could almost touch God, right up there next to the ceiling! Bigger than everything and everybody! With Mae, I was always bigger.
But the best days, just the best, were the days we would walk down to the park. She would sit with the other women and I would climb the big hill with all the kudzu on it, pulling an old cardboard box behind me. Then, as if on green snow, I would slide down that hill like a streak until I tumbled off crashing onto the soft grass at the bottom. My pants would be covered with grass stains and my face would be muddy, but Mae would just sit with her friends and point and laugh – Mae, cleanliness and orderly – she knew how to remove all that dirt, she knew how to remove the dirt on a little child’s life.
I’m grown now. And Mae died a few years ago. They say it was an aneurysm. As I sit here tonight in the quietness of my darkened room, I miss her. I miss being bigger.
Mae, dignified, kind, loving. Mae who never ate with my family. Mae who always entered through the back door. Mae, who always sat at the back of the bus. Mae, African-American, black, colored … blessed. Mae, saint. We mourn because we never knew you, even when you loved us – why did you love us?
Mae, I hope you can hear me. I love you.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Thank you, Nail-Bender.
And in the end, isn't that what its all about? Taking the time for relationships. Taking the time to see who is behind the poverty or riches, the hungry, the filled, the beggar, the abuser, the alcoholic, the druggie. . . . I can't help thinking, every day, as I watch the 'children' at school 'what has gone wrong in their lives?' Each of them came into the world with the same potential that my children did, each of them needing to learn to trust, needing to be fed, and changed, and held, and loved. Yet, what a difference the absence of just one of those elements can make in a life.
Mae loved Nail-Bender and because she loved him first, he loved her. Praise God! I thank God for Mae, too, because she obviously shaped his understanding of humanity.
Another note on how to approach this scripture. This comes from the Serendipity Bible. What is the difference between the values presented in the Beatitudes and the values presented on television? (Love of neighbor vs love of self, commitment, etc.) I plan to start with 'old' commercial jingles like "You'll wonder where the yellow went," "Builds strong bodies 12 ways," "It's the Real Thing," etc. (if anybody knows more, please e-mail me at grant@eosinc.com), then lead into how the Beatitudes would work as commercial slogans -- they are slogans for everyday living.
RevJan
With regard to "Ordinary Saints." It seems that many of you are going in that direction with me. I'm having no trouble developing my theme. I'm using the baptismal vows that everyone in the pews repeats everytime there is a baptism, and I'm asking the question, "would these be good qualifications for saints?" Afterward, I will tell them where it came from. My problem is coming up with an illustration. Any that I have in my collection still point to "super saints" even if their ordinary people. I need a story that illustrates how something very ordinary can be used by God for big results. Any suggestions? Bill in Sutter Creek, CA.
Bill in Sutter Creek,
Mae was extraordinarily ordinary. And her love for NailBender has had a rippling effect, much like the stone tossed into a still lake. Her love continues to wash over those NailBender meets, including us here.
I came across the following story that I think also illustrates how God uses the ordinary. It's called The Three Trees. It might be old but I had never seen it before. I plan on using it when speaking to seniors at a local nursing home:
THE THREE TREES
Once upon a mountain top, three little trees stood and dreamed of what they wanted to become when they grew up.
The first little tree looked up at the stars and said: "I want to hold treasure. I want to be covered with gold and filled with precious stones. I'll be the most beautiful treasure chest in the world!"
The second little tree looked out at the small stream trickling by on it's way to the ocean. "I want to be traveling mighty waters and carrying powerful kings. I'll be the strongest ship in the world!"
The third little tree looked down into the valley below where busy men and women worked in a busy town. "I don't want to leave the mountain top at all. I want to grow so tall that when people stop to look at me, they'll raise their eyes to heaven and think of God. I will be the tallest tree in the world."
Years passed. The rain came, the sun shone, and the little trees grew tall. One day three woodcutters climbed the mountain.
The first woodcutter looked at the first tree and said, "This tree is beautiful. It is perfect for me." With a swoop of his shining axe, the first tree fell.
"Now I shall be made into a beautiful chest, I shall hold wonderful treasure!" The first tree said.
The second woodcutter looked at the second tree and said, "This tree is strong. It is perfect for me." With a swoop of his shining axe, the second tree fell.
"Now I shall sail mighty waters!" thought the second tree. "I shall be a strong ship for mighty kings!"
The third tree felt her heart sink when the last woodcutter looked her way. She stood straight and tall and pointed bravely to heaven.
But the woodcutter never even looked up. "Any kind of tree will do for me." He muttered. With a swoop of his shining axe, the third tree fell.
The first tree rejoiced when the woodcutter brought her to a carpenter's shop. But the carpenter fashioned the tree into a feedbox for animals.
The once beautiful tree was not covered with gold, with treasure. She was coated with saw dust and filled with hay for hungry farm animals.
The second tree smiled when the woodcutter took her to a shipyard, but no mighty sailing ship was made that day. Instead the once strong tree was hammered and sawed into a simple fishing boat. She was too small and too weak to sail to an ocean, or even a river; instead she was taken to a little lake.
The third tree was confused when the woodcutter cut her into strong beams and left her in a lumberyard.
"What happened?" The once tall tree wondered. "All I ever wanted was to stay on the mountain top and point to God..."
Many many days and nights passed. The three trees nearly forgot their dreams.
But one night, golden starlight poured over the first tree as a young woman placed her newborn baby in the feedbox.
"I wish I could make a cradle for him." her husband whispered.
The mother squeezed his hand and smiled as the starlight shone on the smooth and the sturdy wood. "This manger is beautiful." she said.
And suddenly the first tree knew he was holding the greatest treasure in the world.
One evening a tired traveler and his friends crowded into the old fishing boat. The traveler fell asleep as the second tree quietly sailed out into the lake.
Soon a thundering and thrashing storm arose. The little tree shuddered. She knew she did not have the strength to carry so many passengers safely through with the wind and the rain.
The tired man awakened. He stood up, stretched out his hand, and said, "Peace." The storm stopped as quickly as it had begun.
And suddenly the second tree knew he was carrying the king of heaven and earth.
One Friday morning, the third tree was startled when her beams were yanked from the forgotten woodpile. She flinched as she was carried through an angry jeering crowd. She shuddered when soldiers nailed a man's hands to her.
She felt ugly and harsh and cruel. But on Sunday morning, when the sun rose and the earth trembled with joy beneath her, the third tree knew that God's love had changed everything.
It had made the third tree strong.
And every time people thought of the third tree, they would think of God.
That was better than being the tallest tree in the world.
Rick in Va
Brandon in CA --In the spirit of the ministry of St. Francis, include Boomer. If saints be windows by which we see God, it seems to me that all creatures who love faithfully, loyally, and without qualification are also windows to God. AM in PA
It seems I should read all the way to the end before I submit. Brandon, you've gotton plenty of votes for the dog. On some of the other items up for discussion: --Perhaps because we start hearing about Zacchaeus up a tree in Sunday School, he seems like too feeble a character for his reputation. A few years ago I realized that Danny Devito's persona reflected Zacchaeus' character. --There is a video about Mother Theresa in which a reporter asks her about being called a saint, about being called "holy." She doesn't deny it. She says something to the effect of "Yes, That is what you are to be, too. We are all to be saints." Her response made sainthood and holiness (as being set apart for God's work) seem an ordinary thing - not requiring an exceptional person. I recommend finding and watching this video, called, appropriately enough, "Mother Theresa." AM in PA
At the risk of being labeled an animal hater or just a plain old mean person, I would like to be the lone dissenter and vote no on the dog. Yes, dogs, and animals in general, are wonderful pets and great companions to have around. They don't talk back to you. They seem to love you unconditionally. My family and I have always had pets. The dog we have now has been with us for the last 10 years and has been a wonderful companion.
But, however wonderful pets are to us, and how marvelous a gift of God they have been for centuries, they still do not have souls. I would not want to trivialize All Saints Day in my church by including pets, as mean as that may seem. All Saints Day is for people, not animals What I would do is mention to the family of the girl that there will be a special day just for all of God's creatures, and so we will include not just her dog, but anyone else's pets as well. This way, there would be no explaining necessary during worship, and no risk of any laughter or chuckles, or whatever. Does this sound terrible? I don't think so. Any comments? Joe in OH
Re: Bill's request - "I need a story that illustrates how something very ordinary can be used by God for big results."
I am reminded of Mike Yaconelli's "Back Door" article several years ago in the "Wittenburg Door" magazine. I paraphrase...
The Spirit of God is with us in small things like speaking in tongues, and in big things like changing the baby's diapers every day.
God empowers us in small things like proclaiming Good News on streetcorners and in crusades, and in big things like singing our children to sleep.
God gifts us for little things like sacrificial giving to the church, and in big things like letting the other driver have the last parking space near the door of the mall.
You get the idea.
I suggest we need to look for God less in big results, and more in small, even tiny attempts at faithfulness to the grace that has been brought to us by Jesus. Let's stop looking so much at mega-anything and start looking a little more for those little reminders that, no matter what, we have not been abandoned. Lets look less at success, and more at the cross.
"Blessed are you poor, for yours is the kingdom..."
Rick in Canada, eh?
Joe in OH,
What's a soul? What does it look like? Is it the ability to respond to love with love? Is it the ability to recieve gifts with thanks?
It surely isn't an eternal spirit that goes off to heaven when we die, because then we wouldn't need God, would we?
I would have no problem including Boomer in the prayers of the Church, because part of the Church, the child, is hurting and missing his companion. Pray for the child, give thanks for Boomer, and worship God who gives us little reminders of the love that never lets us go.
Rick in Canada, eh?
Okay, okay - I cannot resist the dog, either. Maybe old Boomer was soul-less. Still, I would include him with All Souls, rather than All Saints. I think that pastarol care for our people sometimes means that we elevate them above our theology. Our theology tells us it is "shibai" to include a doggie with saints. Okay. Wanna explain that to the young woman with Down's Syndrome? (It was she that Brandon thought at first to be a child.) Sorry, dear, our theology says your loss and your attempot to contribute to our prayers cannot be included. There is a neat old Dutch Woman (now dead) named Corrie ten Boom. Her simple theology taught me a lot (see: Tramp for the Lord), and she sometimes would pray for the devil to know God. Does that fit our theology? Golly gee whiz, attend to the flock! If it has to somehow be mentioned separately, that works. But I can just see St. Peter at the gates saying, "You were suppossed to pray for Boomer!" Anyway, all theology seems to fall apart if followed to its limit. God is limitless. One vote for the doggie!
HW in HI
OK, two more votes against my point of view. All I know is if my wife had just passed away and her name was mentioned beside that of a dog, I would definitely feel the service was trivialized. The dog, no matter how loveable, was no saint. You also run into the problem of the children who wonder why their pet was not mentioned. One solution which would help in comforting the young woman, besides talking to her and her parents privately, would be to include the dog's passing in the time of sharing and the prayers of the people. Sure it is terrible whenever a pet dies or must be put to sleep. They do become a part of the family. But include them with the saints? I don't think so. Call me a meany. . . Joe in OH
My fellow sojourners,
Just a quick thought. I have a friend who, when folks tell him they are "fundamental" in their beliefs, likes to direct them to this scripture. He says, "I find it separates the true fundamentalists from those who say they are."
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Nailbender: You have got to put your writings together and have them published in a book. If you do (or if you already did), let me be the first to buy it. Your contributions, and you, are beautiful. Bless you, Joe in OH
We just found Katie's tree frog that she's had for four years dead in her viquarium tonight. I promised her we'd have a funeral tomorrow. I know that, on Sunday, during joys and concerns, she will raise the issue of Beautiful's death (the second frog we've lost this year -- thank goodness the newt and kitten are still okay!). I have no problem with that. I don't have a problem with mentioning Boomer during the worship service as one who's died. In my small church, the people would understand, as we have a young man who has Down's Syndrome, too. People would expect me to include a dog of his that died.
I would, however, have a problem with laying a yellow rose on the altar for Beautiful. And so would the people in my congregation. That's one reason I don't ask for 'names of loved ones,' but do remember those of our congregation who've died in the past year. I think the difference for me lies in where these things come during the worship service. To raise up a frog's name during the communion liturgy . . . but to include a request for prayers during prayers and concerns, I have no problem with.
Rev(Mommy)Jan
I am overwhelmed with how God can take the small, the insignificant,the worthless, the seemingly useless and accomplish his great wonderful miracles in our lives. I wrote a poem a number of years ago that reflects this wonder.
Little Things
Praise God for little things. For tiny grains of sand that make a thousand miles of beach, For the feather edge between chaos and order, For honey droplets in flowers And dew drops on roses.
Praise God for little things For ideas when they are born, For newborn babies fingernails For the first wheel that rolled And the number "1".
Praise God for little things For the first bird's lonely chirp at dawn For the first small raindrop that breaks the drought For Springs first blade of grass And night's first star.
Praise You God! for little things.
Sunday I will reflect on Zachaeus, a little one who stood tall in the sight of God because he met Jesus.
Bob (the Bayou pastor) Louisiana
I think we all like rules far too much. I believe that this passage is descriptive rather than proscriptive. I remember in college a professor who wouldn't give us a set a rules and expectations for his class - no tests, no requirements. He felt that, since it was a high-level course, we should already be motivated to learn. The whole class was up in arms - they wanted grades; they wanted tests. It wasn't enough to learn for the sake of learning. They wanted to know where they stood - how they were doing. And, of course, the ever-important, "how can I get around the rules, and use them to my own benefit?"
Jesus had chosen his dieciples shortly before this incident, and now is speaking to the crowds - many, no doubt, friends and family of the disciples, as well as others. We can imagine the disciples watching these people - most of them poor, some (as we are told later on) hungry, many there looking for healing. It's all new to the disciples at this point. They have, however, left everything to follow him. And they're worried. They're not spiritual giants. They're ordinary people. And right now they're wondering where their next meal is going to come from, and "what have I got myself into?"
Jesus sits - the position of a teacher - and looking around, addresses the crowd: "You are blessed..." he says. He is not telling them what to do, but describing what they are - what he sees, with the vision of his Father. He offers four occassions for joy in their life:
(1) The poor - those without worldly security. By the world's standards, they are impoverished, but here, today, Jesus says, you are receiving God's kingdom. William James said, "the desire to gain wealth and the fear of losing it are the chief breeders of cowardice and propagators of corruption. There are thousands of conjectures in which a wealth-bound man must be a slave, while a man for whom overty has no terror becomes a free man."
(2) "Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled." I had a teacher once for a course in alcoholism, who began his class by asking us why we took his course. And to hlep us out, he offered some properly righteous reasons why seminarians might take a course like that. Then he said, "You're all liars! You're engaged in a self-deceptive behavior as debilitating as my alcoholism! You're here because of a need you have, that you're hoping that this class will fulfill. And that, "he went on, "is what this class is about = about seeing through our self-deception and taking responsibility for our needs." Not until we can admit hunger can our hunger be filled.
(3) "Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh." I often think of the children you see on the commercials on late-night T.V. In the face of great need, either we must harden our hearts, or allow our hearts to be broken. Jesus looked upon the suffering around him and wept. If we saw those who suffer no longer as strangers, but as family - those whom God has joined us to - we would weep. But Jesus promises that the time for weeping will end. There is no room for the hard-hearted in His kingdom; God cares for the least, and will turn their mourning into joy. And those who weep with them, the soft-hearted, whom the world scorns, God loves, because His heart is soft too.
(4)The last reality is one that the disciples have not realized yet, but which certainly addressed the reality of All Saints. "Blessed are you when men persecute you for my sake, for your reward in heaven will be great." Many churches have sold out to the idea that you can have your cake and eat it too - that the purpose of Christianity is to make youwell-sdjusted, happy and successful. But Christians are, on the whole, an ugly bunch. Still, as Phyllis McGinley so eloquently put it (SaintWatching), "Still they went on doggedly blundering toward heaven."
The blessings of God's people come amidst poverty, hunger, tears and persecution. The true message of the day is not the glory of the saints, but the glory of the God who called them through their baptism, not on account of their goodness, but on account of His. The cannon of saints reads like a Who's Who of the local mental ward - Ignatius who walked a hundred miles out of his way in winter to assist a sick man who had previously stolen his money; Vincent Palloti who often came home half-naked because he had given away the clothes off his back; even Brother Martin, who was wont to throw ink-wells at the devil. We lok up to them, however, because they took the call seriously, and strove to follow Christ in their own broken way. God grant us grace to follow!
Sorry this is so long - hopefully not too "preachy," but I'm getting near the end and ready to write. Thanks especially to Nail Bender as always, and Rick "eh?"! Always great contributions!
Gary in New Bern
I think we all like rules far too much. I believe that this passage is descriptive rather than proscriptive. I remember in college a professor who wouldn't give us a set a rules and expectations for his class - no tests, no requirements. He felt that, since it was a high-level course, we should already be motivated to learn. The whole class was up in arms - they wanted grades; they wanted tests. It wasn't enough to learn for the sake of learning. They wanted to know where they stood - how they were doing. And, of course, the ever-important, "how can I get around the rules, and use them to my own benefit?"
Jesus had chosen his dieciples shortly before this incident, and now is speaking to the crowds - many, no doubt, friends and family of the disciples, as well as others. We can imagine the disciples watching these people - most of them poor, some (as we are told later on) hungry, many there looking for healing. It's all new to the disciples at this point. They have, however, left everything to follow him. And they're worried. They're not spiritual giants. They're ordinary people. And right now they're wondering where their next meal is going to come from, and "what have I got myself into?"
Jesus sits - the position of a teacher - and looking around, addresses the crowd: "You are blessed..." he says. He is not telling them what to do, but describing what they are - what he sees, with the vision of his Father. He offers four occassions for joy in their life:
(1) The poor - those without worldly security. By the world's standards, they are impoverished, but here, today, Jesus says, you are receiving God's kingdom. William James said, "the desire to gain wealth and the fear of losing it are the chief breeders of cowardice and propagators of corruption. There are thousands of conjectures in which a wealth-bound man must be a slave, while a man for whom overty has no terror becomes a free man."
(2) "Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled." I had a teacher once for a course in alcoholism, who began his class by asking us why we took his course. And to hlep us out, he offered some properly righteous reasons why seminarians might take a course like that. Then he said, "You're all liars! You're engaged in a self-deceptive behavior as debilitating as my alcoholism! You're here because of a need you have, that you're hoping that this class will fulfill. And that, "he went on, "is what this class is about = about seeing through our self-deception and taking responsibility for our needs." Not until we can admit hunger can our hunger be filled.
(3) "Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh." I often think of the children you see on the commercials on late-night T.V. In the face of great need, either we must harden our hearts, or allow our hearts to be broken. Jesus looked upon the suffering around him and wept. If we saw those who suffer no longer as strangers, but as family - those whom God has joined us to - we would weep. But Jesus promises that the time for weeping will end. There is no room for the hard-hearted in His kingdom; God cares for the least, and will turn their mourning into joy. And those who weep with them, the soft-hearted, whom the world scorns, God loves, because His heart is soft too.
(4)The last reality is one that the disciples have not realized yet, but which certainly addressed the reality of All Saints. "Blessed are you when men persecute you for my sake, for your reward in heaven will be great." Many churches have sold out to the idea that you can have your cake and eat it too - that the purpose of Christianity is to make youwell-sdjusted, happy and successful. But Christians are, on the whole, an ugly bunch. Still, as Phyllis McGinley so eloquently put it (SaintWatching), "Still they went on doggedly blundering toward heaven."
The blessings of God's people come amidst poverty, hunger, tears and persecution. The true message of the day is not the glory of the saints, but the glory of the God who called them through their baptism, not on account of their goodness, but on account of His. The cannon of saints reads like a Who's Who of the local mental ward - Ignatius who walked a hundred miles out of his way in winter to assist a sick man who had previously stolen his money; Vincent Palloti who often came home half-naked because he had given away the clothes off his back; even Brother Martin, who was wont to throw ink-wells at the devil. We lok up to them, however, because they took the call seriously, and strove to follow Christ in their own broken way. God grant us grace to follow!
Sorry this is so long - hopefully not too "preachy," but I'm getting near the end and ready to write. Thanks especially to Nail Bender as always, and Rick "eh?"! Always great contributions!
Gary in New Bern
Gary - thank you!
Hey Frank - is there any way to eliminate the duplicates after-the-fact?
HW in HI
Thanks to everyone for wonder-full stories and insights. A special thanks to Rick and Paideia for the one insight that really got me connected with this text. We in this generation (although my congregation is mostly the previous generation) have to chose to take up the mantle of responsibility for Christendom. We have more temptations to follow other paths. We have the testimony of previous generations to the wisdom and truth of the one shining path (sendero luminoso) of following Christ. Their lives, like the life of Christ, illuminate our way. But the choice is still ours: do we follow or do we shirk the responsibility? I also like to include the story of the priests of Joshua's time who had to step out on the river Jordan, just like their parents and grandparents had gone through the Red Sea. Each generation has its own Jordan to cross. They cannot say that others have done all the work, so nothing remains to be done. Jesus's beatitudes are not so much rules as milestones along the shining path. We can look back at all the saints who have gone before us and say, "Oh! so when they were hungry, they were actually blessed, because it gave them the chance to follow! When they were persecuted..."
Boyd in NC
Don't know where I got this; it's a story from Len Sweet: "Indifference in the church was made manifest to me before I gave a talk on the Beatitudes at a church dinner some years ago.... While coffee was being served, the pastor of the church, my host for the evening, leaned over and whispered in my ear: 'Len, shall we let the people enjoy themselves a little longer or had we better get on with your message now?' After my message on the Beatitudes, one woman,obviously one of those who ceased to enjoy herself the moment I stood up to speak, came to me and said: 'Well, Dr. Sweet, if that's what you call the Beatitudes, I leave them to you.' Here was a Christian who could not have cared less. She had no desire to hunger or thirst; she had no desire to be more than she was; least of all, she had no desire to be reviled and rejected. If God had such strange tastes, and if some people could join God in finding these Beatitudes a form of blessedness, they were free to do so. But not her."
Careful with this story, though.... remember last week's story about looking down on the teacher who looked down on the pharisee who looked down on the tax collector...
Kay
Anybody else have this problem: I'm sliding the little slider down the right side of the screen, trying to get to where the comments stopped a few days ago, and I get about 3/4 of the way down, and Netscape itself just completely disappears. Is this a large-file function? Is it me or is it them? kbc in sc
Poor is not what we like but Jesus tells us we have the kingdom. the word for poor equals having no money but
sorry about that. Poor in Luke are those who have no money to pay for anything but the KINGDOM BELONGS TO THEM. Ministers may be poor but they ae very rich
One more thought.
"We can do no great things, only small things with great love." Mother Teresa
Joe in OH,
Forgive my blast. I meant no disrespect, and you have my prayers and sympathy on the death of your wife.
Rick in Canada
Reformation Day
The dog has no "soul" and neither do we--at least not the Grecko-gnostic-Hindu idea of some spark-soul that finally escapes the body at death. We confess "the resurrection of the body." At death, we're dead dead, and Christ restores us both bodily and "spiritually". So, while we believe that somehow God breathes into us the animating breath of life (cf. Genesis 2), we will not find a well developed docrtine of the soul and what happens to it upon death. None of this diminishes the great suggestions on ordinary or extraordinary saints... Outstanding and helpful contributions this week, as always. Peter in Orange, CA
Brother Rick in Canada,
I believe Joe in Ohio wrote 'if' his wife had died not that she had died.
Rick in Va
kbc in sc,
Sounds like a memory problem (not enough of it). Does the same thing happen when you close down all other windows? Try re-booting your machine and only opening your browser, if it continues you may need more memory... If you're having memory problems, you should see other problems as well...
Rick in Va
Bill in Sutter Creek,
I know what you mean. When people think of saints, they think of powerhouse ones, so many illustrations deal with them. I don't know if any of these are what you wanted, but give you these:
THE POWER OF A SMILE
One day as a woman was crossing a street at London station, an old man stopped her. He said to her, "Excuse me, ma'am, but I want to thank you." She looked up and exclaimed, "Thank me?" He replied, "Yes'm, I used to be a ticket collector, and whenever you went by you always gave me a cheerful smile and a good morning. I knew that smile must come from inside somewhere. Then one morning I saw a little Bible in your hand. So I bought one too, and I found Jesus."
THE SERVANT HEART
Arnold Billie is a rural mail carrier in southern New Jersey. For the last quarter centruy his daily route has taken him sixty-three miles through two counties and five municipalities. Mr. Billie not only delievers mai, he brings personal service. Anything you can get at the post office you can get from Mr. Billie -- stamps, money orders, and pickup service. All the customers has to do is leave the flag up on the mailbox. One elderly woman has trouble starting her lawn mower, so when she wants to use it, she leaves it by her mailbox and Mr. Billie starts it when he arrives. Who says personal service is no more?
THE HIGH COST OF MAKING PEACE
At the International Youth Triennium in Bloomington, Indiana, in July 1980, Professor Bruce Riggins of McCormick Theological Seminary was sharing with thirty-eight hundred attendees that he ahd met a very dedicated Christian working in an amazing way with the underprivileged people in London, England. He wanted to know what inspired her Christian faith and action. She shared her story of how seeing another Christian's faith converted her: She was a jew fleeing the German Gestapo in France during World War II. She knew she was close to being caught and she wanted to give up. She came to the home of a French Huguenot. A widow lady came to that home to say that it was time to flee to a new place. This Jewish lady said, "It's no use, they will find me anyway. They are so close behind." The Christian widow said, "Yes, they will find someone here, but it's time for you to leave. Go with these people to safety -- I will take your identification and wait here." The Jewish lady then understood the plan; the Gestapo would come and find this Christian widow and think she wa the fleeing Jew. As Professor Riggins listened to this story, the Christian lady of Jewish descent looked him in the eye and said, "I asked her why she was doing that and the widow responded, 'It's the least I can do; Christ has already done that and more for me.'" The widow was caught and imprisoned in the Jewish lady's place, allowing time for her to escape. Within six months, the Christian widow was dead in the concentration camp. This Jewish lady never forgot that. She too became a follower of Jesus Christ and lived her life serving others. She met God through the greatest love a person can give -- personal self-sacrifice. In faith, an authentic Christian lives his (or her) life serving others, saying, "That's the least I can do considering what great sacrifices Christ has already made for me."
All of these I got from "Illustrations Unlimited" edited by James S. Hewett.
I know this post may be too late, but hopefully not. God bless your sermon preparation.
Brandon in CA
P.S. Yeah, how do you eliminate the duplicate post after the fact? I apologize for the (six?) post above. I got impatient waiting and kept trying to hurry it along. Guess I overdid!
Zaccheus: This story has captured my heart. I can see the little man scrambling in such an undignified manner up a tree to see WHO JESUS IS. How do we know who Jesus is? Sometimes it hits us like a bright light and sometimes our understanding grows throughout our life.
Jesus calls us by name, if we are ready to hear his voice. The question is, when Christ calls us by name, how will be respond? What will we do?
We're singing "Hush" on Sunday. The author's name is missing from my mind, but some of the words are "Hush, Hush, Somebody's calling my name. .... Oh my Lord, Oh My God, What Shall I do?" And later verses add "Sounds like the hungry (weary, homeless, and Jesus). What Shall I do?
This is question I pose to myself and my congregation? What shall we do when Christ calls us by name, loving us as we are. How will we respond?
Blessings to each of you. You inspire me, and help to keep me on track.
Pam in San Bernardino
I remembered this while thinking about how to begin my sermon. I plan to ask what is a saint and then use this story. Then I will go on to show how many of the saints in the Bible were as human as we are now.
A certain church found itself suddenly without a pastor and a committee was formed to search for a new one. But as they interviewed ministers after ministers, they kept rejecting one after the others. One was too young. Another one was unmarried. A third one was too radical. Another one was too much of a social activist. As the list of rejections kept growing, one member finally had enough. At the next meeting he brought a letter he said was from a clergyman applying for the position. The letter wne like this:
"Gentlemen: Understanding that you pulpit is vacant, I should like to submit my application. I am generally considered to be a good preacher. I have been a leader in most of the places I have served. I have also found time to do some writing on the side. "I am over 50 years of age, and while my health is not the best, I still manage to get enough work done so as to please my parish. "As for references, I am somewhat handicapped. I have never preached in any place for more than 3 years. And the churches I have preached in have generally been pretty small, even though they were located in rather large cities. In some places I had to leave because my ministry caused riots and disturbances. Even where I stayed, I did not get along too well with other religious leaders in town, which may influence the kind of references these places will send you. I have also been threatened several times and even physically attacked. Three or four times I have gone to jail for witnessing to my convictions. "Still, I feel sure I can bring vitality to your church even though I am not particularly good at keeping records. I have to admit I don't even remember all those whom I've baptized. However, if you can use me, I should be pleased to be considered." After hearing the letter read aloud, the committee members were aghast. How could anyone think that a church like theirs could consider a man who was nothing but a troublemaking, absentminded, ex-jail-bird? "What is his name?" they demanded. The single member said, "The letter is simple signed, 'Paul.'"1
Thanks Gary for the following comment: "We look up to them, however, because they took the call seriously, and strove to follow Christ in their own broken way." I will be using this idea of why some saints are more famous and popular.
Brandon in CA
kbc in sc,
If you're using Windows there's a way you can set your display so that the task bar at the bottom of the screen disappears and reappears when you scroll. Used to happen to me all the time, until I found someone who reset my display to a smaller setting. Could that be the problem with Netscape? I seem to remember having that problem, the whole program would disappear when I scrolled. Try putting your display at the 640x(whatever) setting and see what happens.
RevJan
Hi everyone!
Thank you all so much for your excellent contributions this week. I am taping myself for Elder's Orders this month and am more nervous and unfocused than usual. Your illustrations have been wonderful, especially yours Nail-bender, and have awakened the Spirit. If there are any other desperates out there this late, here is an illustration I got from my friend Alane that seems to fit the task of the ordinary saints like us:
This is my idea of the saints all around us. I am indebted to my friend Alane for this. A friend’s friend, also a pastor, tells of being caught in an avalanche at Mount St. Helen’s before it erupted. There were about 20 of them who, on a February afternoon, were caught in an avalanche far up on the mountain. They began to dig themselves and each other out. Five died. By the time the last survivor was found, it was dark, yet they had to get down the mountain in case of another avalanche. They had sent some people ahead, to get help, and far down the mountain they could barely make out the headlights of the snowplows. Yet they could see the light, a small pinpoint in the darkness. They walked all night. As they grew tired, some of them wanted to sink down into the snow and go to sleep, yet the others pushed them forward, encouraged them with words. The pastor said, “I knew what Jesus meant finally—that you have to go through the darkness to get to the light.”
As Christians, we are moving through the darkness and we have a Light that will guide our way. It is the journey of salvation, really, better articulated than I have ever heard. A “life or death” journey that can get pretty dark and pretty cold. If we stop, we’ll die. Because Paul describes the saints as “those who believe,” it is the saints who keep us moving forward, by encouraging words; or the prophetic voices that push us forward when we want to sink down to sleep and give up; or even when the Light disappears behind a ridge, there are those who hope for us, that the Light is still there and we’re doing just fine. Sometimes it’s pretty risky trying to keep people moving forward, they become angry because the desire to sleep becomes greater than the desire to forge ahead into the darkness because of some rumor of a light. They might even take a swing at you. Sometimes the pastor gets tired and cold. Isn’t it good to know though, that when you all finally reach the light, that you won’t have left anyone behind. Because of your efforts, you will have helped save their lives. “By the tender mercy of our God, the dawn from on high will break upon us, to give light to those who sit in darkness, and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace” Luke 1:78-79 I love this.
I would say that the saints are divinely blessed (now), for they do not sit happy and full on the mountain in warm cabins, but are out in the cold, experiencing real life, and helping others struggle.
God bless all the saints here. Thanks all, again. New to the table, Min in NC
Hi everyone!
Thank you all so much for your excellent contributions this week. I am taping myself for Elder's Orders this month and am more nervous and unfocused than usual. Your illustrations have been wonderful, especially yours Nail-bender, and have awakened the Spirit. If there are any other desperates out there this late, here is an illustration I got from my friend Alane that seems to fit the task of the ordinary saints like us:
This is my idea of the saints all around us. I am indebted to my friend Alane for this. A friend’s friend, also a pastor, tells of being caught in an avalanche at Mount St. Helen’s before it erupted. There were about 20 of them who, on a February afternoon, were caught in an avalanche far up on the mountain. They began to dig themselves and each other out. Five died. By the time the last survivor was found, it was dark, yet they had to get down the mountain in case of another avalanche. They had sent some people ahead, to get help, and far down the mountain they could barely make out the headlights of the snowplows. Yet they could see the light, a small pinpoint in the darkness. They walked all night. As they grew tired, some of them wanted to sink down into the snow and go to sleep, yet the others pushed them forward, encouraged them with words. The pastor said, “I knew what Jesus meant finally—that you have to go through the darkness to get to the light.”
As Christians, we are moving through the darkness and we have a Light that will guide our way. It is the journey of salvation, really, better articulated than I have ever heard. A “life or death” journey that can get pretty dark and pretty cold. If we stop, we’ll die. Because Paul describes the saints as “those who believe,” it is the saints who keep us moving forward, by encouraging words; or the prophetic voices that push us forward when we want to sink down to sleep and give up; or even when the Light disappears behind a ridge, there are those who hope for us, that the Light is still there and we’re doing just fine. Sometimes it’s pretty risky trying to keep people moving forward, they become angry because the desire to sleep becomes greater than the desire to forge ahead into the darkness because of some rumor of a light. They might even take a swing at you. Sometimes the pastor gets tired and cold. Isn’t it good to know though, that when you all finally reach the light, that you won’t have left anyone behind. Because of your efforts, you will have helped save their lives. “By the tender mercy of our God, the dawn from on high will break upon us, to give light to those who sit in darkness, and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace” Luke 1:78-79 I love this.
I would say that the saints are divinely blessed (now), for they do not sit happy and full on the mountain in warm cabins, but are out in the cold, experiencing real life, and helping others struggle.
God bless all the saints here. Thanks all, again. New to the table, Min in NC