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discussions
1999 Discussion:
The Ascension ... the return of the Son to the Father prior to the sending of another Comforter. The Ascension is so difficult to understand if we seek some 'knowledge' of it from the mind. The Ascension simply reminds us that Jesus has gone out of sight, dwells in with the Father, and in our hearts. He now is closr to us than we are to ourselves - we must trust this closeness, this deep nearness, which transforms our lives and the world in which we live.
tom in ga
Amen brother TOM... JMD in TX. cant improve on that statement.
I know my children's sermon will be one of those sticks with a beanie type airplane propeller fastened on top. You spin the stick real fast and it'll take off flying to the top of the sanctuary! revup
revup, Maybe you could have one of those remote control helicopters hovering near the ceiling to catch the beanie! Hey, I like this passage better already!
Paul of SC
On a more serious note, the reaction of the disciples to Jesus being "carried up into the sky" kind of intrigues me. They were overjoyed instead of overwrought. This event, after all, was even more traumatic than the crucifixion, at least on one level. The crucifixion only resulted in a temporary absence of Jesus-in-the-flesh. The Ascension made the separation permanent.
Paul of SC
The followup of Acts 1:1-11 seems very important, given very probably the same author. Acts adds details to the Luke version which may be a reason Jesus' followers were "overjoyed instead of overwrought." (Thank you Paul of SC.) I had never noticed the connection between the ascension and the joy instead of sorrow. Gives us a reason to celebrate a person's life at funerals, doesn't it? revup
One additional thought: doesn't the Ascenion mean that Jesus is Lord "over", "above" all? To me the Ascension points to a "beyondness" of Jesus that keeps him out of our mental grasping confines.
Reverend Earl
As a sendoff to our confirmation students, I am considering a title and theme of "Up, up and away!":
"Jesus left us with the power to rise above guilt of the past, lift our spirits in the present, and raise our expectations for the future." Any commentsor ideas? revup
He opened their minds to understanding the scriptures" relates to the Ephesians passage. Manzel
I am draw to the notion in this passage that Jesus first educates the disciples by opening their minds to understand the scriptures, then commissions them to proclaim the Good News, and finally instructs them to go home and WAIT, to be clothed with power from on high. This does not seem like a passive waiting, but rather an active waiting, infused with the joy of the promise. What kind of images surface for ou as you think of wiating to be clothed with power from on high? Emily
11 MAY 99 The recent Spirit/Paraclete lectionary texts lead us to the Ascension (and foreshadow Pentecost). I'll probably hearken back to John 14:12, we will do the works of Jesus..."in fact, will do GREATER works than these." Heard someone immagine Christ's arrival in heaven. Said the Angels, "Gee, Jesus, we're sure glad to have you here... but what about the earth? What's going to happen there now that you've left?" (implication, it will "go to hell"). "Well" says Jesus "I've have a great plan: I'm leaving it(earth) in the hands of my followers... they will continue my works (`in fact, will do greater works'--I think that's my current favorite verse!)." Angels: "Do you have a back-up plan?" Jesus: "No." That's it. We haven't been left as orphans, and we haven't been left without the invitation--the responsibility--of active discipleship. Thanks God the Lord's Spirit is with us in full measure! Peter in CA
Greetings:
I will toss my hat in the ring on this one. As we look at this passage we see that Jesus Christ is decreasing and the Holy Spirit is increasing. Basically, this Sunday leads into next Sunday, Pentacost, and then Pentacost leads into the next, Trinity Sunday. This is actually a very important time in the Church year. Jesus points to the fact that He must fulfill what the Law, Prophets and Psalms say about Him. That forgiveness and repentance of sin will be preached in His name to all nations. Wow powerful stuff. Then to say, "I am going to send you what the Father has promised."
The Promise of the Holy Spirit. Gifts of the Spirit, Fruit of the Spirit etc.
Good Luck on this. Thanks for priming the pump.
Pastor Rich Kent, Wa
Well Paul of SC,
No matter how I wrestle with your insight, I just can't see it. My mind keeps coming back to the thought that the crucifixion would be more traumatic because it seemed to be the end of all the disciples' dreams as well as the death of their friends. And the concept of an afterlife was, as far as I know,not that well developed in Jesus' time. The ascension came after they discovered that Jesus is not dead, but risen from the dead. They realized that they were dreaming about the wrong thing and that Jesus' promises were not in vain after all. So they were overjoyed when Jesus was lifted from their sight. They knew it was not the end.
And while I'm writing this, I would like to throw out another idea. This is from "Preaching the Revised Common Lectionary:"
"Karl Barth suggested that what changes about Christ in the mystery of the Ascension is simply the place, the vantage point, from which he operates. He moves from a human place to a divine place without ceasing to be human, just as he did not cease to be divine in his human place. To concentrate on the direction of the movement in a spatial sense is to miss the point. This movement places our humanity in the presence of divinity; it is a glorification not only of Christ, but of all human nature. Political systems argue for human dignity from many perspectives. Christianity demands human diginity not because of any rights we may believe ourselves to have, but because our worth is derived from that humanity that is a part of the Godhead. The exaltation of the incarnate Christ, says Barth, 'refutes all attempts at setting up another govenment, another 'place,' from where orders and promises reach us. It is the ultimate refutation of all dictatorships."
Brandon in CA
I am toying with the idea of "why are you looking up" I have no title as of it but have an opening story ......Marty
The Feast of the Ascension should be one of the grandest on the calendar. But generally speaking it is not. I want to find a way to make it a very positive event in the life of Christ. At Christmas we make a big deal about the Word becoming Flesh, the divine becomeing part of us. At Easter, Jesus comes back to us again, even from the dead. At Pentecost, God comes to us again as the Holy Spirit. We celebrate the feasts whereby God comes closer to us.
I'm going to begin to explore the ways that Christ can actually come closer to us because of the Ascension. It is not Jesus "leaving us" in the strictest sense. It is, I think, Jesus bridging the gap between Heaven and Earth. Is Jesus sitting now at the right hand of God with holes in his hands and feet and side? Is the Ascension the way that Jesus can be present for everyone in every age, rather than for a few in first century Palestine? It seems the Ascension perhaps crowns what was begun on Easter. Is there a connection between Jesus telling Mary not to touch him and his Ascension.
What about an illustration or two that show how separation can sometimes mean a new kind of closeness??? Any thoughts?
It's so hard to put into words, but I'd like to try.
Shalom,
WJA in California
Well, Brandon in CA
I think you're right. The crucifixion was certainly more traumatic than the ascension. Still, I am surprised at "overjoyed." You've given me an idea, though. Maybe the sermon could begin with the question of why they were overjoyed at Christ's departure. The rest of the sermon could then answer that question, using some of your insights.
Paul of SC
Somehow in this sermon I want to use the story about the fella who, tired of sitting around in his backyard, decided to tie helium weather balloons to his lawn chair. He thought he might be able to rise a few feet off the ground and survey his whole neighborhood from a new perspective. On the day of lift off, he strapped himself in with a six pack of beer and a bb gun (for his descent!) -- Much to his surprise, his empowered chair rose several thousand feet into the air -- directly into the flight path of the L.A. airport. Soon, his yard was filled with crowds of folk, including reporters and police, shouting for him to come down. As soon as he got his nerve back, he finally shot some of the balloons and landed safely. They asked him, "Why in the world did you do that!" He replied, "Well, you just can't sit there."
I think the story humorously relates to the disciples, standing there staring up at the risen Lord. Why are you standing there? Go -- get yourselves some weather balloons to power your lawnchair and get a new perspective on life and Christianity! After all, you can't just SIT there!
RevKK
By the way, the complete story can be found in R. Fulgham's "Everything I needed to Know..." book or one of the Chicken Soup eds. RevKK again.
Hi All, My sermon title is "Baptized By The Force!" I'm using both the Acts and the Lukan texts. I have purchased a light saber, which I used in my sermon of two weeks ago when using the example of Obiwan(sp?) turning off his light saber and allowing himself to be struck down (i.e. Stephen). Our greatest "weapon" is the Force!
This Sunday, it seems to me that the power of God is unleashed through the waiting of the Disciples. It is a prepentecost experience of waiting and waiting and waiting. Waiting to be fully baptized by the Force of God at the coming of the Holy Spirit.
Obviously, I'm still working on this, but the light saber provides a great gimmick to catch people's attention, plus it's a lot of fun!
Everyone (almost) relates to Star Wars. It's a useful tool if you don't mind working with it for awhile. BTW, light sabers are available at Toys R Us for $19.99.
Rick in CA
Speaking of "Star Wars," I have changed my theme to "Jesus gave us 'the Force' to rise above guilt of the past, lift our spirits in the present, and raise our expectations for the future." It will be the concept that the writers of Star Wars got confused, and forgot "the Force" is another name for God's Holy Spirit. revup
Got an illustration and I'm sorry it's so late but I've been (ready for this?) traveling in France with some people I met on dps and just got home last night at midnight. (True!)
Olivier Messian wrote Quartet for the End of Time in a concentration camp. I heard it performed last year at Charleston's Spoleto Festival two days after Ascension. The final movement has a violin getting sweeter and higher and fainter . . the audience held its breath so as not to loose any part of that beauty and sweetness . . and all the while the piano is playing a sort of percissive couple of chords. After it was all over, there was silence, then applause, then finding the car in the parking garage, then driving home, and the piano chords were still insistent . . thump thump . . . thump thump.
We got home, it was late, we got ready for bed, and suddenly I recognized the thump thump: it was the heartbeat of God! There we were, like the disciples, straining in longing and sorrow to hear the departing sweetness of Jesus' ascension . . and found that we were all the time in the very womb of God!
May not be what Messien or the pianist were trying to communicate - but I still hear that heartbeat.
kbc back home again in sc
Hi all: I'm arrested by the fact that the greek word Jesus uses to tell the disciples to "stay" in Jerusalem (v. 49)literally means "sit down." Does the Lord require a period of inactivity and silence before empowerment? EIW
2000 Discussion:
Date: 14 May 2000
Time: 10:51:05
Where has Jesus gone?
Theologically he has returned to the Father and continues to interceed for us in and through his humanity.
Yet, that departure is neither up or beyond but within our very selves, Jesus is still Emmanuel, and our lives are deeply related to his, for he lives in us and we in him ...
tom in ga
Date: 28 May 2000
Time: 03:21:44
Nail-Bender in NC,
Might you please email me at pathskr@ria.net? I am a umc pastor out west, and want to get your sense of the pulse in the East. And in case you don't do that, know that I have been telling our folks to sign on to this site solely to catch your incredible stories. Thanks for sharing your art.
Date: 29 May 2000
Time: 04:06:54
I guess this week, maybe for the first time in a long time, I am wanting to answer the question of why it is important to preach and to believe that Jesus ascended to heaven and is now seated at the right hand of the father. Why was it important for the early church to make that affirmation? And, why is it important for Luke to include this dramtatic departure? Any thought?
Gary Maguffee Morgantown, Ky First UMC
Date: 29 May 2000
Time: 04:30:35
Gary in KY:
Paul addressed the very issue of why it is important to believe in Jesus' Resurrection, etc. 1 Cor 15:12-15 "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. (NIV) That seems, to me, to answer why the Resurrection. As far as why it is vital that Jesus rose to Heaven, it is critical because He said in John 14 that he went to "prepare a place," that where He is we can go. (See John 14:1-6) revup
Date: 29 May 2000
Time: 04:48:08
Tom in GA:
I see the Kingdom in 3 distinct forms: A) as a place ("I go and prepare a place..." - John 14:3) B) as you mentioned, a condition of our heart ("The kingdom of God is is within you. - Luke 17:21) and C) a future time of Christ's rule on earth (I saw a new Heaven..." -Rev. 21:1 revup
Date: 30 May 2000
Time: 13:35:05
I am interested by several things with the ending of the Gospel of Luke...
1. First, the parallels with the beginning of Luke.
(a) The story opens and closes in the temple. Luke begins with the priest Zechariah upon the stage. He has been chosen to burn incense on the altar. An angel of the Lord appears to Zechariah and announces that his wife Elizabeth will bear him a son "... and you shall call his name John ... and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit" (1:13, 15). Luke's narrative likewise ends in the temple in Jerusalem. After the ascension, the disicples "returned to Jerusalem with great joy; and they were continually in the temple blessing God" (24:52).
(b) The story begins and ends by addressing the fear and doubts that Zechariah and the disciples feel. "Do not be afraid," the angel says to Zechariah (1:13a). John is astounded at the announcement that he has heard. The angel responds, "And behold, you will be silent and unable to speak until the day that these things come to pass, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their time" (1:20). The risen Jesus likewise appears to the disciples and addresses their fear and doubt. "Why are you frightened, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?" (24:38).
(c) A final note--and undoubtedly there are more parallels to be explored--the beginning of Luke describes a "downward" movement ... the coming of the Spirit, the coming of Jesus, the coming of God's grace into this world. The ending of Luke is a kind of closure on this downward movement. Jesus, who has come into the world, is now "carried up into heaven" (24:51). Narratively and theologically, Luke's story ends with this kind of resolution.
2. I notice, as well, the relationship of the end of Luke with the beginning of Acts. (I read Luke-Acts as a single narrative.) The ending of Luke (the Ascension) is both a closure on this chapter of the story of God's "visitation" (Lk. 19:44 and sets up what is to come in the beginning of Acts. "I am sending upon you what my Father promised; so stay here in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high" (Luke 24:49). The power of the Spirit which will come upon the church to bring to completion the good news that has already been set in action.
3. I feel it's important to keep the larger message of Luke-Acts in mind whenever we try to preach from it. Israel has always known God and has been blessed by the covenant. God is now fulfilling the promise spoken to Israel through Isaiah: "I will give you as a light to the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth" (Is 49:6). In Luke's understanding, this is the meaning of the life of Jesus and the inauguration of the church... the universalization of God's gift to Israel "when the day shall dawn upon us from on high to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace" (Luke 1:79).
Date: 30 May 2000
Time: 13:36:54
I forgot to attach my name to the above contribution! DJO in Berkeley, CA
Date: 30 May 2000
Time: 16:02:19
I was reading a sermon by C.H. Spurgeon entitled :Beginning at Jerusalem. He delivered it in 1883, and his points still ring true today. I believe that I will focus, as he did, on verse 47 -- that as Christians we are to communicate to others the impotance of repentance and the forgiveness that is to be found in Jesus. However, the most important part of this message will focus on the phrase "beginning from Jersalem." With Spurgeon, I believe this phrase implies that we need to begin communicating the Good News of Jesus beginning fro home. We need to talk to our children and others in our families -- to those in our home. How many times have we felt led to talk to a stranger, but neglect to talk to our children about Jesus. I would love to hear your responses. By the way, the Spurgeon sermon can be found at: http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1729.htm
RevRoss, Burl., NC
Date: 30 May 2000
Time: 21:54:57
It's early, but I think this will be my opener Sunday: As I think about what is going in this text, it is something I can really releate to, and probably you too! When I was a child I would visit my cousins, or they visit me. I remember one year especially that the 2 week visit was over. I was devastated. We had so much fun! As my cousin drove off all I could think about was all the fun my cousin and I had had. (I don't have a brother) Maybe you had an experience like that as will. Certainly this was one of those moments for our beloved disciples, as their friend and Lord ascended. How do you think they felt? Let us ponder and remember some of the good mememts with our Lord. .... I was going to close with our response to his last words... Win one for the gipper?...no no, no! You are my witnesses.
What do you think? Anything you can add, illustrations? Peace, RevRon
Date: 30 May 2000
Time: 21:56:29
It's early, but I think this will be my opener Sunday: As I think about what is going in this text, it is something I can really releate to, and probably you too! When I was a child I would visit my cousins, or they visit me. I remember one year especially that the 2 week visit was over. I was devastated. We had so much fun! As my cousin drove off all I could think about was all the fun my cousin and I had had. (I don't have a brother) Maybe you had an experience like that as will. Certainly this was one of those moments for our beloved disciples, as their friend and Lord ascended. How do you think they felt? Let us ponder and remember some of the good mememts with our Lord. .... I was going to close with our response to his last words... Win one for the gipper?...no no, no! You are my witnesses.
What do you think? Anything you can add, illustrations? Peace, RevRon
Date: 31 May 2000
Time: 15:27:24
Does anyone have any ideas for a Children's message to go with this? I am really stymied! I'm desparate enough to consided wiring my lay leader and lifting him through the ceiling! (He said NO!) I usually don't have any trouble with CM's and am real creative, not this time! Please???
Date: 31 May 2000
Time: 15:30:15
Does anyone have any ideas for a Children's message to go with this? I am really stymied! I'm desperate enough to consider wiring my lay leader and lifting him through the ceiling! (He said NO!) I usually don't have any trouble with CM's and am real creative, not this time! Please???
Date: 31 May 2000
Time: 15:51:51
For the CM. Maybe a lead in with some kind of (bad)majic trick? Then asking "Where is Jesus now?" It is majic? or miracle? -Can he hear our prayers?
Date: 31 May 2000
Time: 21:16:24
As one who regularly uses magic tricks for the kids(of all ages), may I suggest using a good one instead? Something as simple as making a coin vanish from your hand and reappear in a child's ear. If you know it, you know it. If not, get a book of tricks from the library. It's basic.
"Now, I'm not allowed to tell you exactly how atrick works, that would take away the mystery and fun of it. But I can say that most tricks work by "misdirection". That means the magician makes you look over here(wave one hand)while actually doing something over here(wave the other one).When they kept looking up into the sky to try and see Jesus, an angel had to tell them "You are looking in the wrong place(wave hand high in the air), He is closer than you think.(tug the child's earlobe)" Well, that's not exactly what the angel said, but it was true. They discovered that Jesus wasn't gone. His love was right here(pat chest)in their hearts, so they were happy. Now if I had just done half that trick, making the coin vanish, that would have been good,yes? But when it came back, in your ear that was a real surprize! Well, Jesus going up into the sky was just the beginning. Wait 'til you hear what happened next. We will tell that story next week."
Any trick with a "Vanish here, Reappear there" theme could lead into this talk. Many easy tricks can be learned in your library. But don't do bad magic. Thanx! tom in TN(USA)
Date: 01 Jun 2000
Time: 11:10:44
About "beginning from Jerusalem." The message must begin from Jerusalem because the message is of repentance and forgiveness. (It always fascinates me that the "great commission" in Matthew gets so much attention from the evangelical crowd...Whatever happened to Luke? And how might the church understand its mission differently if it is based on 'proclamation' instead of 'making disciples'? Just a sidelight.) Repentance and forgiveness is the language of reconciliation, i.e., the restoration of a relationship between perpetrator and victim. Who is the pure victim? Christ. Reconciliation begins as we turn (repent) toward the victim, who alone can offer genuine forgiveness. (You might be able to find good stories about victims forgiving their oppressors, but I don't know any striking ones offhand.) This is true with loving God, as well as loving neighbor. But the victimization happened in Jerusalem. Rowan Williams does a fantastic job of laying this out in his book "resurrection." In fact, he makes a point of citing Acts 4:12 as a text that confirms that salvation can only happen in the matrix of aggressor/victim; THAT (and not because of an exclusivistic agenda) is why it is said TO A JERUSALEM CROWD that there is salvation in no other name than in Christ, i.e., salvation in none other than the victim of the powers that be in that city at that time. All that said, my brother is preaching in my pulpit this Sunday. Hooray! PJ in NJ
Date: 01 Jun 2000
Time: 12:24:38
The Gift of Power, as the Christ empowers the disciples to become apostles, involves the mystical dynamics and paradox of "presence and abscence". When parents, teachers, leaders gift-give in loving relationship via empowerment to their children, disciples, followers, then the children, etc., become separate, differeniated, independent. In this aloneness there is an absence of the parent, teacher, leader, as the disciple must decision-make and act on his/her own. Ownership for the Kingdom's eschatological dawning, beyond the crucifixion, by the disciples is blessed by Jesus himself as he lovingly empowers disciples to take up their cross and follow him. The paradox of the ascension of Christ is so profoundly balanced with the gift of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. PaideiaSCO in north GA mts.
Date: 01 Jun 2000
Time: 14:51:43
"A sure sign of the season to come," I thought as the pungent odor of freshly fertilized fields assaulted our citified nostrils. It was a sure harbinger of the heat slowly building with the ever ticking seasonal clock, another promise of a blazing North Carolina sun, oppressive humidity, and the hazy days of another summer filled with energetic youth groups and pounding hammers. The wonderful and awful chaos of work teams and early mornings, a arduous task for someone who revels in the solitude of late night ponderings. And yet, it was impossible to enter the season with other than a growing excitement born in the surety of unrevealed promises. Experience said, "Brace yourselves, for the music of cosmic hilarity was sure to come, the promise of the God of a good joke. Brace yourselves." Who knew what remarkable circumstance, crazy and unforeseen, might come crashing into the mundane everydayness of it all.
We bounced down the dusty dirt road, the truck's shocks squealing from the abuse as each wheel found an ever deeper rut. Together we rode, me the old crusty and somewhat cynical professional, and Franklin, the young seminary intern, seeing the world with new faith and new eyes. As I glanced over at him, I could not suppress a smile, his exuberance for this new experience was palatable, a more than generous amount of enthusiasm coupled with the serious and contemplative posture which only a seminary student can master. A posture garnered from long hours sitting in hard backed chairs, honed on the staid mannerisms of stogy professors who sometimes even offered up the profound. "Well," I chuckled inwardly as I visioned the near future, "Step right up folks, for soon we are going to experience the clash of titans -- the existential suffering of academia mixing it up with the gritty faith of blue-collar living." Yep, it would be interesting.
Soon we arrived at our destination, a broken-down place which had started out as an 800 square foot trailer, but now, due to numerous ragged add-ons, had expanded to at least three times it's original size. Of course, the place was still falling apart, but at least it was now a much more spacious shack. I had seen it so many times before, a thousand other stories, yet all the same. The trailer siding was peeling away in many places and long strips of soggy insulation were hanging from it's sides reminding me of some mangy animal suffering under the simmering sun. Sadly, it was so typical, a deep mark of lack in an overwhelming culture of abundance. An offensive mark in the realm of God's Jubilee. Corporate sin but then who would listen?
As we walked about this dilapidated hulk, its owner, his once towering frame now bent and crippled, exited the rusting front door and slowly made his way over to us. Long moments passed as he painfully walked toward the side of the trailer, the interminable time of the elderly, his moments passing as mere nanoseconds, yet each instant now filled with the excruciating pain of movement. We finished our inspection and met him in the middle of his barren yard, at one time the birthing place of corn and wheat, but now filled with the stubble of wild grass and weeds. He placed his callused, cracked hand into mine, squeezing weakly, thanking us for coming. Thinking of the sturdy, safe structure where I lived, I looked at his battered home and choked out, "It's the least we can do, the least we can do."
As we moved with him toward the rear of the structure, we met his bride coming down the rotting ramp which extended from the back door. Her smiling face greeted us with overwhelming exuberance. The beauty of her presence shown through the surrounding blight, a light refusing to be extinguished by the despairing darkness enfolding her existence. Her eyes sparkled in the joy of today and in the promise of tomorrow. "Welcome to our home!" she exclaimed, "Welcome to her home."
I left Franklin standing next to her as I followed her husband around the trailer so that he might point out yet another leak in the roof, yet another bit of decay. Franklin stood in silence for some moments, searching for some words which he might offer her, searching for some significant utterance which might convey his deep concern for her circumstance, searching for some way to communicate his care and his desire to be of some assistance. Finally, feeling the sweat rolling down the small of his back, soaking his tee-shirt, he instead did that which we so often do when we struggle to express thoughts which can never be adequately expressed. He looked over to her and said, "It's a mighty hot day isn't it."
For some time she didn't respond, a long pregnant interlude in a conversation which needed no pauses. Finally, she replied, "You know, when it's hot, folks always seem to want it a bit cooler, and when it's cool, they just want it hotter. They ain't never much satisfied. But I don't rightly think it much matters how it is. I thank Jesus for it, for today is Jesus' day. That's plenty good enough for me." She again offered him the beauty of one of her amazing smiles, her eyes dancing with the joy of it all.
And then she departed his side, her gnarled hand carefully manipulating the toggle which gave direction to the wheel-chair carrying her paralyzed, disfigured body.
Today, like so many days, those of us who care about such matters, will discuss the ascension of this one named Jesus. We will debate the event, arguing over it's visceral or ethereal properties. We will contemplate it's meaning in the realm of our liturgical expression. We will reflect upon it's ontological significance and the gravity it might hold in our individual and corporate realities. We will, each of us from our own theological perspectives, posture to express our thoughts in a way that might be intelligible to the other, especially to those who might think differently than us.
But I don't think I will worry about it much. For you see, I know this beautiful young-elderly woman, the holder of a smile which will brighten even the darkest day, and she knows with absolute clarity, that Jesus is the holder of this day and it's all plenty good enough.
Shalom my friends,
Nail-Bender in NC
Date: 01 Jun 2000
Time: 14:54:36
PaideiaSCO my friend,
It is good to "hear" your voice. I have missed your wise musings and I have missed your presence.
Shalom, Nail-Bender in NC
Date: 02 Jun 2000
Time: 04:59:05
Off topic posting. Just wanted to say "Bye" - I preached my last sermon last Sunday (Well the last for a while anyway!). Thanks to all you desperados for the inspiration, challenge, ideas and directions. Its been great.
Keep the faith!
GP
Date: 02 Jun 2000
Time: 05:39:00
From the insights and wisdom of friends, I think about Jesus, fading out of sight. This time, instead of fear and dispair, the disciples are joyful. They return to wait out the promise as a community of praise. Away from the one who informed them and cared for them, the meaning of Christ's life/death/resurrection begins to impact upon their life together. They must have been living in a time of wonder as they waited for something even more wonder-ful. That seed of the Holy Spirit which Christ had planted within them must have felt a new day, like the pressure on a piece of coal turning it into a diamond. But it was not a lifeless stone, it was alive. Growing in intensity, it exploded on Pentecost and Christ was no longer a man living in a small war-weary country; Christ became the essence of power over evil dwelling the the lives of those who gathered, truly gathered in Christ's love. Jesus' hands can give a healing touch to an AIDS victim in Uganda at the same time they are blessing a new-born child in Norway. Jesus' feet can carry a cup of water to a dying soul in China at the same time they are traveling the roads of Columbia with tools for a better life. Jesus' heart no longer beats within the man of Galilee, but within all who bear his mark of water. Jesus no longer gives his life in sacrifice on the cross, but in acts of compassion and justice and holiness in thousands of spots throughout the earth. With all the heartwrenching actions of the UM General Conference, it is good to remember that Christ is the final victor and we are told to wait until we are clothed with the Holy Spirit. It is good to remember that when all the world would seem dark and bleak, that flame which we can no longer see is preparing to explode like a million fireworks bringing that overwhelming joy that only comes through Jesus. Wherever you are: be blessed with the reality of hope, it will never disappoint you. Agape, Fisherfolk in OH
Date: 03 Jun 2000
Time: 14:47:40
Just working on my own children's message for tomorrow - so perhaps this idea is a bit late now (I always seem to leave things to the last minute - not recommended!)
I have managed to get finger print dust from the local police station (though if you don't have time to do this - you can just talk about it)
I plan to ask the children how they would know if I had been in the church/my office if they couldn't find me there. (tell tale signs maybe - such as they might see my coat hanging on the hook or my handbag on the chair etc) What if I hadn't left any signs? What happens if a house has been burgled - how do the police find the burglar? (They may look for fingerprints - very clever because we all have different fingerprints...and we leave invisible signs) Then I will talk to the children and tell them that although Jesus appeared to the disciples for a while after the resurrection - there came a time when he had to return to heaven - but even though they weren't able to see him, they could still feel his presence because he had left an invisible imprint on their hearts (well, I mean to develop it this way and talk about the signs of Jesus/God we see around us to point to God) Also could talk about invisible imprints we leave on others - if we are cruel, we may not leave them with physical scars but invisible hurts inside. If we are loving, we can leave them feeling good......
That's all I've got so far Love and Blessings Shirley (Scotland)
Date: 04 Jun 2000
Time: 03:33:27
Shirley--thank-you and my lay leader will kiss your feet! To add some thoughts, now that you have mine chugging...Even though we can't see finger prints, they are there, and also, the way we can be identified is that our finger prints are each unique, just as we are to Jesus. Our prints even differ on our two hands! Others may not be able to see our finger prints, but God gave them to us and He can see where we've been, even without the dust! Always leave your special prints in good places! Also, to the one who suggested magic-- I liked that idea and went to the library, found out how to do it--need much practice, not bad magic, just bad magician! I'll practice for next year. I only found this site Mother's Day, and I love it! Thanks people, I may not contribute, but I will be praising you and giving you the glory for the epiphanies your contributions bring me. Toni WV
Date: 04 Jun 2000
Time: 03:33:45
Shirley--thank-you and my lay leader will kiss your feet! To add some thoughts, now that you have mine chugging...Even though we can't see finger prints, they are there, and also, the way we can be identified is that our finger prints are each unique, just as we are to Jesus. Our prints even differ on our two hands! Others may not be able to see our finger prints, but God gave them to us and He can see where we've been, even without the dust! Always leave your special prints in good places! Also, to the one who suggested magic-- I liked that idea and went to the library, found out how to do it--need much practice, not bad magic, just bad magician! I'll practice for next year. I only found this site Mother's Day, and I love it! Thanks people, I may not contribute, but I will be praising you and giving you the glory for the epiphanies your contributions bring me. Toni WV
2001 Discussion:
Date: 17 May 2001
Time: 19:31:51
Witness seems to be essential to this passage about the Ascension. We are to witness in our daily lives. How do you witness to Jesus risen from the dead? How does my life reflect the gospel values of Jesus? How is being Christian living the gospel today going to make a difference in my home, workplace, school etc. Can I be that martyr (witness) in dying to myself so I can live for Christ!?
Date: 18 May 2001
Time: 18:27:39
24:51 While he was blessing them, he withdrew ....
This is an interesting phrase ... while blessing them, he withdrew ... what could it possibly mean? As he shares the fullness of his grace ... he vanishes.
Earlier, Our Lord broke bread with his disciples along the way, and he vanished out of their sight ....
is there some connection here ..... is not my emptiness, fullness, my spiritual pain, joy!
What do these words mean?
tom in ga
Date: 22 May 2001
Time: 13:56:46
"While he was blessing them, he withdrew from them ..."
At first, it almost sounds like he was withdrawing FROM them, but I'm thinking that he might have been withdrawing FOR them ... in order that they might witness TO him. When someone withdraws from me, I usually interpret it as their not wanting to be with me. However, as I've been "withdrawing" from my two congregations for the last two years, it was with the express purpose of allowing them to stand on their own two feet and take ownership of their ministry, after I'd shown them many different opportunities and ways of ministry. Slowly, step by step, they've learned how to do their own VBS, a FANTASTIC Girl Scout Sunday (unlike any I'd ever seen before), and their own Senior Citizen's Center party. As I get ready to "withdraw" to another appointment, it seems that this passage is particularly meaningful - all the while, giving blessing.
Way off course?
revo
Date: 22 May 2001
Time: 21:29:50
The Farwell Discourses over the past few weeks have been preparing us for emptiness - the divine absence of Jesus. This emptiness gives promise to fullness, if we allow ourselves not to deny it within ourselves but to embrace it as the very home of God.
tom in ga
Date: 23 May 2001
Time: 00:57:56
The phrase here that resonates for me is "Then he opened their minds to understand..."
I can't begin to imagine how that must have felt, after all that time being confused, confounded and astonished at what this man was saying and doing. Come to think of it, it must have felt good for Him too, after all that time being misunderstood!
All through the story Jesus has said "Hey, I'm telling you..." (at least that's how I hear "truly, truly I say unto you"). Nobody gets it, or only gets a little bit, or only for a minute. It's almost comical that when Jesus returns from the dead he feels the need to say "This is what I've been saying all along..."
PE, upstate NY
Date: 23 May 2001
Time: 20:45:43
Luke 24:51 - NIV - "While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven."
He ascended while blessing them... and He continues to bless them even now.
JG in WI
Date: 24 May 2001
Time: 11:40:38
They understood the scriptures and were filled with joy. Then to top it off they were given a commission to testify about the truth when the power of God came upon them.
All of this sounds very much like my own conversion. The difference is that it didn't all happen in an instant for me. I struggled seeking the truth. It took a long time for me to be filled with the same sort of joy I believe these disciples received. But it was only after getting my head around the scriptures and realizing joy that I wanted to testify. O' how I wish I could place my congregation on the hilltop of Bethany so all of this would happen to them in an instant. This passage reminds my of when Jesus stood up and read the scroll of the prophet Isaiah in Nazareth. It begins witht he words, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,.." (Luke 4:18ff). The ministry of Jesus began that day. But we all know his home town rejected him and wanted to kill him.
I mention that passage from Luke in hope that I can move forward with the power of God to do ministry among a congregation that has no committment and really does not care to change. I have reached the point where revo mentioned in his discussion piece, I have started standing back.. praying the spirit of God will empower these people to actively live out what little faith they have. Yes, I'm depressed and feel at times I am preaching to myself. When will the power of God come to this church? When will they hear and obey? When will the church as a whole start blessing God?
KB in KS.
Date: 24 May 2001
Time: 15:36:53
tom in ga -
Say a little more. I'm UM, and I interpret your "emptiness being the home of God" as "prevenient grace." In other words, it's the emptiness that causes us to seek, or follow the "wooing" that Wesley described. We might be onto something here for my congregations. People who've been Christians since long before I was born have difficulty remembering what it is to long for God, prior to their conversion. Yet, paradoxically they're still longing for God and aren't really aware of it because they've denied, rather than embraced, the emptiness as God's residence.
revo
Date: 25 May 2001
Time: 00:09:37
Right on revo! Thanks.
DGinNYC
Date: 26 May 2001
Time: 15:11:27
Friends, As I read your thoughts and the passage, I am struck that by withdrawing Jesus allowed, or forced the church to do ministry. As long as He was here He did ministry. The Disciples (the church) pretty much watched. Now as Jesus "withdraws" the church is allowed to take up that work in His Name. Next week we will celebrate Pentecost, which is when we are empowered for the work ahead. But without Jesus withdrawing in power, (not run off or killed) the Church is empowered to carry the ministry into the world. And how much more, we can do than Jesus could do myhimself. So is the accession God's way of preparing all of us for ministry? Is it God's call for us to take up the work of Jesus in the world? Is it now our responsibilty to teach, heal the sick, free the oppressed and proclaim the Good News of God's Grace for all the world? I am afraid it is. REVJCB