This word of encouragement and hope for the future lays the ground work for Jeremiah's prophecy of the coming of a new covenant, which he announces in Chapter 31. How do the faithful of today act to demonstrate a readiness for the New Covenant especially in the light of recent events. Do we build back, prepare for the next year of planting and harvest, and continue to bring children into a troubled world? Jeremiah's answer was yes then, and I believe it is yes for our day. Christians live in an exiled city, because home is not of this world. However, we must express concern for the welfare of our exiled city here on earth; for in it we find our welfare. TN Mack
How many of us spend most of our lives waiting for a better future: the next promotion, to have children, to get children grown and on their way, retirement? Doesn't God really want us to live in the present? There's a wonderful gift here--IF we growth where/when we're planted. Rich in Bama
My sermon title is "Bloom Where You are Planted." This is also the week of the ministry, where we honor ordained ministers but the sermon will focus a bit on the ministry that we share. Some of what I plan to say is that the words of prophet ring loud and true for us today. We can be seen as living in exile, if you like that metaphor. Whether or not we use that kind of language, we are living lives that are not all that we would want them to be if we could create the perfect city, perfect world, perfect home, perfect family. What Jeremiah says to my heart this week is that in the very imperfection of our lives, we demonstrate our faith, our faithfulness (see 2 Timothy)by blooming right here where we are--by serving God right here in this place, using the gifts we've been given, getting on with life. That means we go right on raising children along with the gardens we plant (lots of room for metaphors here, I think).
This is the earliest in the week I've posted in a long time!. I'll check back later and see if this has made sense to anyone. I think it resonates pretty well with both of the earlier posts.
Pam in San Bernardino
I look at this pasage in light of all that has gone on and I say to my congragation you see the Bible still speaks to us after all these years. It is not a dead book. It tells us that even in our darkest hours life goes on. Even in our darkest hours God is with us. We must remember to give thanks for that fact alone and from there for everything we have. Will begin to flesh it out during the rest of the week. MR in NY
Gee, it was bad enough when the captors asked them to sing a song of their homeland, now God himself through the prophet is telling them to seek ways to bless the country that has enslaved them. It's pretty bad when it seems like even God is against you.
I think God's telling them that they better get used to being where they are because it's going to be a long haul.
John near Pitts
What a text? It was a commissioning text for when I was inducted into a community ministry in urbancore Winnipeg ( Manitoba, Canada ) some yrs ago. Gratefully so. Ever since, it has been one of those germane and generic theme texts: in prayers, mandates, mission statements, etc.It is exilic; it is a mandate to pray and engage well of the exact situations I find myself in -- for decades, inner-city areas and ministries; and, it is connecting, to others, even those I cannot see, hear,or otherwise connect with. Now, I wonder what the parameters and breadths, are of "welfare" may be ( as I ponder how to respond to B.C.'s Government policies to press the poor, on welfare, into work,manyof them being un-employeable? ). shalom, bkmorris59@hotmail.com
As I was reading this text, I thought of the Palestinian "refuge" camp that I visited in Jerusalem a couple of years ago. These were people, or descendants of those people two and three generations removed, who moved or were moved off their land when the State of Israel was declared in 1948. There are many complicated issues here and I do not want to launch a discussion about justice, but I couldn't nelp but think of them when I read Jeremiah. Get on with your lives. You have been paralyzed for generations now lamenting about the past and dreaming about returning to the land you gave up. Get over it. With every step in life's journey, things never will be the same, nor can they be. We Americans must accept that none of our lives are forever altered by recent events. And we must not be paralyzed by fear and longing for the ideals of life. This is our life. This is our world. Live and in your own way, make it a better place for the future. AC in Iowa
I find the last verse in this reading to be so critical. Yes, the first verses communicate the need to "get on with life where you are." But the last verse is the real challenge - seek the welfare of this foreign (enemy, captor, opressor) - to truly get on with life is to be about creating the vision held in the creation in all contexts. These people are, in essence, being told a similar message to the one Jesus delivered many years later - love your enemies, pray for those that persecute you. Quite the challenge.
bt in dc
I see in this text a connection with ben Laden's words on Sunday night. He said something to the effect that America will not feel secure until the Muslims in Palestine feel secure. That is so true. And it ties in with Jesus message of God's Realm of Shalom. I am not crediting ben Laden with this understanding of what he said. But until all in the world feel secure (ie. sufficient food, shelter, health care and -yes- personal security) no one is secure. I believe this ties in with Jeremiah's words about praying for the welfare of the captitors. AGAIN -I am not condoning ben Laden or the terrorists but those particular words of his regarding security do remind me of Jesus' words of the kingdom. Any ideas on what can we do with it? Blessings LGB
Bin Laden said it as a threat, that's the difference. Jesus told us to "weep with those who weep" and Jeremiah said "seek the welfare of the city..." as an encouragment to us to do good, to seek God's will in the midst of suffering.
DGinNYC
LBG - I urge you to carefully choose your words when you quote bin Laden and then say, "This is so true." I have a feeling that many parishioners would not be able to recover from those words enough to hear how you tie them into a "larger" truth...that is, unless they are used to some shock value in your sermons. I do agree that this is a call away from our insular lives, and to make life better even for our "enemies." Still praying that all this will gel in my heart and mind by Sunday! NBC Preacher
The television camera shows us the inside of an NFL locker room, filled with football coaches and players. The camera focuses on Marv Levy, the coach who led his Buffalo Bills to four AFC championships, yet lost the Super Bowl every time. Levy announces to the team that no one is leaving the room until they figure out a way to win the Super Bowl. Then the camera focuses on the players, each of whom has a very distraught look on his face. Then the voice-over says, "Not going anywhere for a while?" With that, the commercial suggests that a Snickers bar will get you through that period of "not going anywhere." Jeremiah sent news to people in exile and told them that they weren't going anywhere for a while. But they were told not to give in to hopelessness or despair. They were told to live. To marry. To give birth. To build. To plant. To make a life. To use their days to the fullest. How sad are they who die before they finish living. -Dale in Chattanooga
Carolyn Brown has some helpful insights here. Children often feel in exile, stuck in places they don't want to be. Stuck in the wrong class, moved to a new town against their wishes, moved out of their room because of divorce, etc. Older folks also exiles of their own bodies when they don't work like they used to. Us pastor types complain about our churches and wish for greener grass.
shakespeare has a sonnet, #30 which goes like this. When to the sessions of sweet silent thought/ I summon up remembrance of things past/ I sigh the lack of many a thing I sought/ and with old woes new wail my dear time's waste/ etc.
Jeremiah: build and plant, seek and pray for the welfare of the place where I have sent you.
Larry cny
Does verse 7 speak in anyway to our present world situation. What of Jesus words, "love your enemies, do good to those who despitefully use you (I am quoting by memory)
Shalom
Pasthersyl (soon to be called Bammamma)
LBG I posted my words before I read the rest of the contributions. I do think you have something in what you are saying. I would be careful as you present it.
Shalom
Bammmama (formerly pasthersyl)
Wonder how this would "preach" in a refugee camp in Afghanistan? And WE feel like WE'RE in exile...sheesh! I also am thinking about what Dale in Chattanooga said about "this is gonna take a while" in connection with what President Bush said in his press conference about this war taking a while. I'm also thinking about how the name of this war was changed from "Operation Infinite Justice" to "Operation (something) Freedom." Sorry I can't remember the correct name. Maybe we feel like we are "unjustly" forced into exile, but can we still experience freedom, even in a strange land? I'm just rambling here. NBC Preacher
Check out www.cresourcei.org I have found this to be helpful, thinking about how we are feeling like "exiles" from the way of life we knew prior to Sept. 11. We can pine away for our lost way of life, or allow God to speak to us in our state of exile. Now we might feel "Plucked up, pulled down, destroyed or overthrown" but our future is one of building and planting. While our situation does not perfeclty mirror that of the exiles Jeremiah was writing to, there is enough there to make us think. Still thinking...NBC Preacher
AC in Iowa << Palestinian "refuge" camp that I visited in Jerusalem a couple of years ago. These were people, or descendants of those people two and three generations removed, who moved or were moved off their land when the State of Israel was declared in 1948. There are many complicated issues here and I do not want to launch a discussion about justice, but I couldn't nelp but think of them when I read Jeremiah. Get on with your lives. You have been paralyzed for generations now lamenting about the past and dreaming about returning to the land you gave up. Get over it>>
You are right to say it is complicated. You are right to recognize that it is a question of justice. You are right to say it is time to get up, get over and get on with it. How can I do that as a Palestinian or as an Israeli Jew when it involves more than myself... when there is constant conflict with my neighbors, when there are forces from the right and left. People cry out "Pick yourself up from your bootstraps" when i don't even have boots. Easy for us to say from NY and Iowa.
It applies in ths scripture. Thanks for the provoking thought.
don hoff, elmira, ny
Previous:
"Seek the welfare " Is this the word "Shalom?" If so how do you all interpret that word. Those who share that word share a vision and long for peace in its broadest concept. I will appreciate any reflections on the meaning of "Shalom." It is also translated success along others.
I forgot to sign my question about the meaning of welfare. It is Bill in Beaver, PA
Yes the Hebrew word is Shalom. In this instance it means the well-being of the community, in every conceivable sense of that word. Justice, love among neighbours, food, clothing, community spirit, peace, righteousness, you name it.Helen in Chase
It seems to me that this text does not allow us the luxury of focusing on some future in God's Kingdom while neglecting the neighborhood where we currently reside. Even if we are strangers on earth, and exiles, we are to build community and be engaged in the business of daily life. Shalom is not someday, it is to be brought to fruition here and now. We must not only thank God for the perfection to come, but we must thank God for the daily gifts of healing and hope. (Link to Luke?) SS in PA
How often do we play the game of when? When we have enough members, enough money, or a good enough pastor, we will start doing effective ministry. But- There is a small Presbyterian Church in Chicota, Texas (population:not much at all) that has at most about 12 members present on Sunday. They have Sunday School each week, and preaching services twice a month. Forget ministry, right? Wrong! This little church serves as the home church for the boys at the Goodland Presbyterian Children's Home. They provide scholarship help for graduating seniors each year, and provide two parties a year for the "Goodland Boys." They also provide Sunday School or the boys on the days they have preaching services. Not bad for a little bitty church in a tiny town on the Red River.
There are lots of stories like this, if we will just look. Some people (like Me) too often see the barriers to ministry, instead of the opportunities. So, what are you waiting for. As the old saying geos, bloom where you are planted
I forgot to sign my name, too. Maybe it's contagious? RevGilmer in Texarkana
I'm remembering that Brueggeman talks about Jeremiah as a model for the church in our own time. Just as Israel went into exile, the church is in exile today, living in a foreign land, in a strange culture that no longer speaks the language of faith. That's about all I remember. Anybody know where to look to fill this out? Larry cny
I like the metaphor for "exile" as any place of deep disillusionment & sense of abandonment. Israel found itself in the last place it wanted to be, or ever thought (because of its faith in God) it would be. For us = unemployment, abandonment, betrayal, etc. But even here, God is found. God says -- put down your roots in this "awful" place; be hopeful, but live here & now, serving others. This too is "holy ground." I am in Babylon as well. Parker Palmer tells a wonderful story of rappeling on an Outward Bound expedition; he freezes & wants off the mountain face. The instructor won't pull him up. Instead, his advice to Parker is -- "If you can't get out of it, get into it!" Larry in Va.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one that thought about Bloom where your planted, Rev. Gilmer. It's not only the church that seems to be waiting until things are just right. Many of us in our lives think if only I had a different house, car, spouse, job, whatever. We need to get on with life. I remember a movie with Henry Fonda called "Spencers Mountain" (I think it was what "The Waltons" was based on). Anyway the father never would fix up the house because some day he was going to build a dream house up the mountain. But it never got done. Finally he realized that he needed to accept things the way they were and start living life right in the place God had put him.
Colemine in KS
A new take on exile is found in John Spong's new book, "Why Christianity must Change or Die." Spong sees himself in exil along with many other Christians who can no longer believe the basic tenets of the church but desperately need a new framework on which to hang their faith. Juxtapose that with Jeremiah! gretz in to.
Here's a quote from C. S. Lewis (written at least 40 years ago!)
"There is a danger... of clergy developing a special professional conscience which obscures the very plain moral issue. Men (now we would have to add "and women") who have passed beyond these boundary lines... are apt to protest that they have come to their unorthodox opinions honestly. In defence of those opinions they are prepared to suffer oblquy and to forfeit professional advancement. (Though that's hardly the case for Spong!) They thus come to feel like martyrs. But this simply misses the point which so gravely scandalizes the layman. We never doubted that the unorthodox opinions were honestly held: what we complain of is your continuing your ministry after you hold them. We always knew that a man who makes his living as a paid agent of the Conservative Party may honestly change his views and honestly become a Communist. What we deny is that he can honestly continue to be a Conservative agent and to receive money from one party while he supports the policy of another.
How can Spong and "other Christians" continue to call themselves "Christians" after they "no longer believe the basic tenets?"
the above is from KenTucky. (Sorry)
KenTucky,
You make my spirits soar!
I have been reading Bishop Spong's heretical writings for some time now. It is one thing to think in 'liberal' terms while still upholding basic tenets of the faith. My opposition is not as strongly held with these people. Bishop Spong however has denied those very tenets. He has denied that which defines a Christian. Don't take my word for it, however, read his words for yourself. He has posted 12 theses on the internet (http://www.intac.com/~rollins/jsspong/reform.html)calling for a new reformation when in fact, he calls for upholding a very old heresy. I couldn't agree with KenTucky any more strongly. Bishop Spong and like-minded people seem to be the epitome of those Biblical warnings against wolves in sheep's clothing, evil masquerading as angels of light.
I know there will be those who think I am harsh, but I believe Spong (and his followers) are operating under a spirit of anti-christ. If they are not, I shudder to meet those who would fit the description.
Thank you KenTucky for your 'voice', may it continue to herald truth.
Rick in Va
PS. Bishop Spong is a leader in my own denomination, the Episcopal Church USA.
The proper URL is http://www.intac.com/~rollins/jsspong/reform.html
Sorry about the mistake...
Rick in Va
How can people like Spong remain committed to the faith and ministry? Simple. The Spirit still stirs them. At first, the Jews in exile were prepared to settle for defeat. All was lost. God was in Jerusalem. The shock of Ezekiel's visions was that the Spirit of God could exist in Babylon, too. They'd have to practice the faith a little differently. But God was not restricted by geography.
They had to learn that they could not confine God to their conceptions of God that had been held so tightly. C.S. Lewis, too, learned some lessons in his life about being too rigid and missing out on the working of the Spirit. = pshaw
Thanks, Rick, for Spong's URL. Just visited there, then went over to 2 Timothy and found this: If we are faithless, Jesus Christ remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself (2:13). And found two early morning preachers encouraging each other. Here's what one wrote (passed along to you by Anne in Providence): 07 Oct 1998 15:27:06
Dear Hw in HI, It's 3:18 p.m. e.d.t., on Wed., and it looks like you and I are the only ones preaching this pericope. The thing that stands out to me in this pericope and the title of my sermon, are the first words of this passage ... Remember Jesus Christ. This is a letter to a discouraged young minister. Paul is trying to build him and us (laity too) up and he tells Tim, "Look as bad as you think things are . . . Remember Jesus Christ. When you are suffering for the gospel's sake . . . Remember Jesus Christ. When wrangling over words are hurting people in the church by killing their spirit . . . Remember Jesus Christ. We suffer hardship . . . we endure everything, including church boards that don't act like Christians . . . why . . . because we remember Jesus Christ and we can't do anything else. John in Ky.
Hi Anne,
Thanks for the words. What motivates my discussion of Spong is also found in 2 Timothy. Verse 2:12 clearly speels out the consequence for those who deny Him. Bishop Spong has done just that. The verse represents the full gospel. The good news that accompanies the bad. I think we must speak out (in love) against those who deny the historic Jesus and still want to remain in the Church. Spong has every right to lead/find new spirituality (or re-hashes of old ones). He should simply call it Spongianity rather than Christianity.
I believe that standing up for Jesus is remembering Jesus. In that sense I'm fulfilling Ky John's exhortation to do so.
Thanks,
Rick in VA
Rick in Va
Getting along with the Hebrews boing from bitterness and hate in Babylonia to accepting Jeremiah's advice to build families, community and to work for prosperity, I feel that was a great act of faith. And after reading the wonderful comments I pray we see the vision of creating a new life whever discourages with our world, our communities and our churches. Shalom to all. I am sure most of the commentators and myself believe there is power in the traditional but there is no doubt for me that we need visions of how we worship and evangelize in a land that seems "foreign" to us remembering that to a great many cannot get at what we are saying. If we keep working at it we will succeed and as we work toward the welfare of others seeking to bring understanding, we too will prosper. Bill again in Beaver, PA
Getting along with the Hebrews boing from bitterness and hate in Babylonia to accepting Jeremiah's advice to build families, community and to work for prosperity, I feel that was a great act of faith. And after reading the wonderful comments I pray we see the vision of creating a new life whever discourages with our world, our communities and our churches. Shalom to all. I am sure most of the commentators and myself believe there is power in the traditional but there is no doubt for me that we need visions of how we worship and evangelize in a land that seems "foreign" to us remembering that to a great many cannot get at what we are saying. If we keep working at it we will succeed and as we work toward the welfare of others seeking to bring understanding, we too will prosper. Bill again in Beaver, PA
O Lord our God, send us anywhere you would have us go, only go there with us.
Place upon us any burden you desire, only stand by us to sustain us.
Break any tie that binds us, except the tie that binds us to you.
And may the blessing of God be upon you this day and forevermore. Amen.
[A Blessings Attributed to John Shelby Spong] via Susan in SanPedro
Susan in San Pedro,
So what's the point?
I posted this on the Gospel side, thought I'd do it here as well...
Quick note... no response is necessary.
Bishop Spong has 'grown' such that this attributed blessing he would never give again since, by his own words in his call for reformation, there's no need to pray. Here they are: Theses number 10 in his Call for Reformation.
"Prayer cannot be a request made to a theistic deity to act in human history in a particular way. "
Rick in Va
Forgive me for the knee-jerk rush to defend Spong. I had not yet read his call for a New Reformation and thus did not know what everybody was talking about. I've now read it and even though I would not write the same theses I still want to give him a hearing. Some of them I can "Amen" and others make me want to argue. But that is exactly what he is inviting. I want to hear his debate. I'll give him this chance because I have heard the Spirit talking to me through him.
But is he trying to make a home in exile? Or have we already done that? To me, so much of contemorary "orthodox" Christianity has more to do with Babylon than Jerusalem.
Which brings up a question about this passage. We find God over and over in the Old Testament trying to keep the people of Israel from adopting the ways of their neighbors. Isn't God paving the way for that here? At least if we take this passage out of context? = pshaw
Blessings Rick, psahw, etc! Not wanting to turn this from the "dps" to the "sds" (Spong-Debate-Society) I want to put in two more cents into the conversation. I, also, returned to Spong's recent book and re-read the Prayer chapter, in response to Rick' s "challenge." I found much that I agree with and more that I don't -- yet I guess the "point" of posting the Blessing is that Bishop Spong's ministry has been a blessing to me and to countless others ... in spite of the fact that I might think he "gets it wrong" some of the time. Has he gone too far in moving to a non-theistic approach to Christianity? I think so. Am I profoundly grateful to be part of a church that is big enough for Rick in VA and Jack in NJ? To inherit a tradition that makes room for a Moabite widow and welcomes a foreign leper? You betcha! 'Cuz that means there's even room for Susan in SanPedro!
Mystery Poster,
There is always room for anyone with Jesus Christ. It becomes part of the definition of Grace. There will not be room for those whose dying breath denies Jesus as Savior. Is that something we can agree with?
One tenet of Christianity, according, to the Bible but not according to Spong's theses 5, 6, 7 and 11, is the propitiation of sin and our acceptance of same through Jesus Christ as a requirement entering into eternal life. If we push that away, there is no 'room' for any of us. We deny an essential. When we deny an essential we deny the Essential (Jesus Himself). And if we deny Him, we might as well join the next pagan, New Age, Universalist, Spong-ian cult that makes us feel good physically, intellectually and emotionally and dooms us spiritually.
Rick in Va
Being a baby boomer, I have a hard time with gratitude. I mean, I didn't live thru a war or a depression or anything. In terms of preaching, it seems like such a static concept: Be grateful, you louts!
I started leaning toward Jeremiah.Everyone is in exile in some form or another. Jeremiah's advice: Bloom where you are planted. You may not like your job, your church, your town, your school, or even your self--but bloom where you are planted.
But then i started thinking about the lepers again.Leprosy must have been an awful thing. A disease strikes your body. You are cut off from society, an exile. Your body does strange things, you are in exile from your own body. What do you do?
What do you do if you find yourself in need of healing, whether physical, emotional, or spiritual? Get help, go to the doc (Jesus and the priests). Be thankful for every day that you have. Get connected to your spiritual roots whatever they might be, whether Jewish, Samaritan, or Christian."Your faith has made you whole". Larry cny
Yo, Rick ... didn't mean to be "the mystery poster": 'twas I ... Susan in SanPedro my very own self ... giving thanks for the Wideness of God's Mercy, for Spong and for you in my "apologetic" of 10/9! Blessings, SUSAN in SANPEDRO :)