Date: April 07, 2002
Time: 11:34 AM
What an abunandce of themes and meanings we have here!
Many mansions is an image both of abundance and of variety. There is room for all of us and room for different traditions of faith. .. Manzel
Date: April 07, 2002
Time: 11:40 AM
I read these wonderful words while having great saddnes over the hostilities in the Middle east. It seems like our father has a place for each of us which will accomidate our differences yet, this very scripture could be a sword used to divide us. Wouldn't it be something if we could all take the one simple step of affirming we pray to the same father? Manzel
Date: April 07, 2002
Time: 11:46 AM
On Earth as it is in Heaven, how much do we find earth as the father's mansion prepaired for us? Do we really hope for peace here? Would we if we considered this one of our father's mansions?
Date: April 07, 2002
Time: 11:50 AM
Where I am that you may be also, ... isn't the mystics of each of our religions that practice the presence of God. Doesn't it seem that the mystics from the Christian, Jewish, Muslim and other traditions are able to get along in peace? Isn't there some way we can build on that kind of peace until even fundamentalists from each religion can live in peace with each other? Manzel
Date: April 07, 2002
Time: 11:59 AM
"you know the way" do we? Perhaps the way the truth and the life is a little like the chicken and the egg. I don't know which comes first but I know they seem to perpetuate each other. Whenever we find truth, Jesus is there. Whenever we think we have the truth that excludes others, we seem to have left Jesus behind.
Date: April 08, 2002
Time: 05:45 PM
I am not preaching will be at UMW Assembly but what a support for Stephan stoned. Are we not called to preach, love and justice and could be stoned for it. I wonder if I am as brave as Stephan. Nancy-Wi
Date: April 09, 2002
Time: 08:57 AM
whoever has seen me has seen the father....
Date: April 14, 2002
Time: 10:45 AM
Was it Matthew Fox who wrote The Cosmic Christ. That book includes a chapter on the I am sayings of Jesus. anybody remember this? Manzel
Date: April 18, 2002
Time: 10:19 AM
I'm thinking about talking about prayer! "If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it." Do we really know how to pray for others? Do we let our prayers always come back to my need or the need of our family? Do we really pray for others as Jesus asks us to pray for those in need, the poor, the down cast? How do we talk about prayer to people who think they are already "experts" at prayer without putting them down or challengeing them to look at how they pray? What do our people need to hear about authentic Christian prayer? Help me with some ideas, if you can. Thanks friends....H in Iowa
Date: April 18, 2002
Time: 06:01 PM
Like many of you I'm sure, I have used this text to comfort the grieving at funerals. However, this time I'd like to talk about the "home" we have here on this earth in our relationship with God through Jesus. As we are loved and accepted in God's gracious accomodations, we are also drawn to show hospitality to others needing a home--physically, and spiritually. We cannot turn our backs on all those seeking a safe homeland in the Middle East right now, nor can we ignore those who feel insecure in their own family homes here. Our feeling "at home" in our relationship with God, urges us to continue in God's Way as shown to us through Jesus. Our ultimate home is assured. Therefore we are free to reach out and take risks on this journey now. Any good illustrations, stories for this text? GB in MI
Date: April 18, 2002
Time: 07:33 PM
Jesus goes to prepare a dwelling place for us in his Father's house. I, too, most often associate this with funerals, but it might be able to say something for here and now as well. Sometimes he may prepare for us here on earth, such as in times of transition between calls. Even though we may know some details of where we go, we will not know all that awaits us. So it is with all of us as we move to the future. We don't know whether a freak accident will take the life of a loved one tomorrow. We don't know what the day will be like. Like Thomas, we don't know where the future will take us.
Jesus, bless him, doesn't tell us where, either. Instead, he reassures us that he is the way to the future no matter where the future takes us. He is the way, the truth, and the life. Without him, we have no future. With him, our future is assured, and we have no need to fear, no need for our hearts to be troubled. Believe in Jesus Christ, Believe in the Father, for this the Holy Spirit calls us to do.
Michelle
Date: April 20, 2002
Time: 05:51 AM
"Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.”
How many of us see “greater works” each every day within the people we serve? How many of us see “greater works” in our own lives? Sometimes I see them, and sometimes I don’t. Is this more a matter of “having ears to hear” and eyes to see? More often than not, I think, it’s because we (they AND me) get so caught up in the things of earth rather than the things heaven. Once again, it seems to come down to focus.
This last year, I found out that about 50% of the kids in our small school district are on the free and reduced cost lunch program (about 300 out of 600 students). The Ministerial Alliance (supported by the congregation I serve) decided to prepare and distribute sack lunches to the kids of the town when the school cafeterias are closed -- we’d like to feed the kids in the country, but many are next to impossible to find and are as far away as 15 miles. Anyway, we did over 500 lunches at Christmas break and around 500 during spring break. We don’t ask for proof of income, we just distribute the lunches to the kids. BUT I’ve heard that the program wasn’t successful, because we took the food to the kids, rather having the kids come into a church. There are also some church members in all the churches who don’t think there’s a real need -- “the parents could feed those kids if they’d get a job, or stay off drugs, or . . .”
Jesus said, “the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do.” The promise wasn’t that we’d catch less “flack” than Jesus did, but that believers “will do greater works than these, because [Jesus was] going to the Father.”
You know, I started writing this comment with the agenda of trying to move the congregation just a little further down the road to the kingdom, but maybe we should take time and celebrate what God has done both through and IN us. Our church offerings aren’t what we’d like to see, our buildings are in need of repair/updating, there is more work to do in feeding the kids, families in our community need medical care, but when was the last time we stopped and and saw what Jesus was doing through and in the lives of believers and the life of the church universal?
Jesus said, “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves.” I think it’s time for me (and the congregation) to look at our works and see if Jesus is in our works, is God found in our works, or are we just trying to be “do-gooders.” I truly believe we should live our faith and our works should be an outflowing of having Jesus in our lives. But doing “stuff” to look good or to be busy isn’t what we are called to do. It is Jesus who prepares our “mansion,” not us through our works.
That’s odd, I usually don’t ramble this much so far in advance, but we are having a combined worship service with another church in our town and I am not preaching this week, so I’m trying to get a head start on rambling for next week.
Blessings on your congregations, and on your faithfulness to bringing God’s Word to the people of God. Grace and Peace, Charley in NETex.
Date: April 20, 2002
Time: 05:59 PM
It's funny to me that we always look forward to the place Jesus is preparing for us. We look forward to being in the presence of God, yet we have that opportunity right now. We don't have to wait until we die. Jesus taught us to pray and through prayer we have fellowship. Many people seem to want God to be near them only when they are in church. I believe there is more comfort in knowing He is with us everywhere we go. It's hard for me to behave as Jesus did, but just knowing He is with me and will not leave me helps me to face all things, even myself when I feel like I have failed. Rhonda in Tx.
Date: April 21, 2002
Time: 12:23 PM
The "universal" implications of the first part of the passage are beautiful and true. But then what do we do with "no one comes to the father but by me," v. 6, given our culture's interpretation of this verse? kay
Date: April 21, 2002
Time: 04:28 PM
kay, Go back to John6:44 "No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me; and I will raise that person up on the last day." (NRSV) These are more statements of identification of Jesus with the Father than a set of directions.
Date: April 21, 2002
Time: 07:07 PM
To Sue in Cuba, KS… I read your post last week under John 10… a sermon of yours from 1999 in which you cited an event that took place in a 1993 Seeds of Peace camp experience. I tried to locate the Guideposts article that you referenced by subscribing to their on-line archives, but had no luck. Any chance you have any additional info that might help me out? If you do and are willing to respond you can email me at revbeth@hixon-mai.com. Thanks for sharing that sermon and the illustration.
Date: April 21, 2002
Time: 10:06 PM
When Jesus identifies himself as the truth, then when he says no one goes to the father but by me, it does not sound exclusivly christian at all. All religions that worship God in truth are in the spirit of Jesus.
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 06:40 AM
This is wonderful stuff already...so early in the week!
This is NOT an argument for universal salvation. "All might be saved," said Wesley and Arminius ...saved in the Name of Jesus.
But what's in the Name? Fredrick Buechner has something to say about "no one comes to the Father but by me." The gist of it is that coming to God is not done by subscription to a particular creed, denomination, doctrine, or attendance at a worship service. We come to God Almighty through Jesus...that is, through the Way of life he embodied. Buechner says, "Thus it is possible to be on "the way" and not know it." It's possible we will meet many in heaven with Jesus who don't have the proper paperwork at all. (See Romans 2: 14-16. Paul has in mind Gentile Christians here, but it seems as if he’s opened the door on universal salvation a little.)
The church has been in the grip of "Christian imperialists" for centuries...those who suggest there are two choices open to everybody: Jesus or Hell. I would suggest that’s a wrong way to read Jesus’ sayings. A reading in context suggests the Gospel writers, as they battled persecution and hostility from the synagogue after 70 A.D. were saying, "You knew Jesus...you knew better... and look what's happened. You knew him and you turned your back on the Gospel."
Who might that apply to today? Hardly those who have never heard the Gospel, or even more than that, have never had a vital, personal relationship with Jesus as Savior and Lord. To truly reject Jesus you have to know whom and what you are rejecting. If damnation awaits those who “knew better” and turned their backs on Jesus, we had better be careful, because we’re the ones who at one time had such a relationship and hopefully still do.
What, then, are we to do? Proclaim the Good News the best way we know how to those who do not know him: 1Cor. 9:19-22ff (v. 22: “I have become all things to all people, that I might by all means save some.”) It’s clear we’re in a human predicament we cannot solve. The One who can is Jesus.
We operate in and out of a Christian framework. It is a reliable framework for us. It has something vital to say about God and humanity, about our purpose in life and our ultimate destiny.
Sorry for the longwinded post! It’s Monday morning and it’s the coffee *S*
Da Rev in CT
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 11:00 AM
anything? If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it. Anything? Really?
cosmic Santa Clause or cosmic bell hop at our command? or is this a way of saying "your authority is unlimited while you are doing my will?
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 11:04 AM
I am wondering about preaching on our witness. After three years, Philip still does not know Jesus - it suggests that we may never know Jesus but that we are always getting to know him. But what do we know of Jesus? Perhaps an invitation to reflect upon our stories and our need to identify moments of "knowing", so that we might in turn share them with others. I Peter suggests that we might proclaim the mighty acts, and certainly there was a story of Stephen behind his martyrdom. What do we proclaim? How do we proclaim? What of our stories, and what we know of Jesus, can we pass on to others? How do we pass it on? What is our witness?
Tom in TO
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 01:45 PM
We are celebrating Heritage Sunday--having people bring pennies for each year they have been a member of(or associated with)the church, and going through a renewal of membership vows.
This is an often-used text for funerals. I think I use it in about every funeral I do. How to transition it to a church that is afraid it's on the verge of dying and is reluctant to try any new ministries because of the work and the wear and tear on the church building?
Also, how to keep away from condemning especially Muslims with the text. Early thoughts.....
Carol in IA (USA)
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 03:54 PM
About Muslims, they do not reject Jesus. They accept him, honor him as greater than any other prophet, except for Mohamid.
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 03:59 PM
To know that peace is at the heart of the Muslim faith makes it impossible to say the Muslims are not followers of the Prince of Peace (whom we know as Jesus). The trouble with all religions is that they all fall way short of their founder's ideals.
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 04:36 PM
Sally in GA,
I gave a qualified explanation/apology about my comments on the "sheepdogness" of all believers very late in last week's gospel discussion. I don't know if you saw it but I wanted to clear that up.
Mike in SD(yes, that's Soddy Daisy), TN
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 07:05 PM
Actually, the Muslims do very clearly reject Jesus as the Messiah. Even though it might make us feel more comfortable & at ease to imagine Muslims "believing" in Jesus, they only believe that he was a great prophet, & that he did NOT die on the cross, as such, but was taken up into heaven. The idea of even such a great prophet dying on a cross under such humiliating circumstances is simply too much for them to accept. So they do not "believe" in Jesus the Messiah as we do.
However, it is also true that God knows our hearts, & can see with a far broader vision than we can. I'm not sure that everyone will get into heaven (what about the sheep & the goats), but I am confident (most of the time :)) that our heavenly Father/Mother will handle the situation with great love & compassion, wisdom, etc. It's up to God, our Creator, & I pray that everyone will come to know his gracious & widespread love, both those of us who claim the name of "Christian," & those who don't.
If I don't watch out, I'll preach for 20 minutes again, & then listen to people talk!
God keep you, deb in the 'burgh
Date: April 22, 2002
Time: 09:00 PM
To H who is preaching on prayer. It seems to me that the asking for anything in my name, part of the text is saying something about asking for things that are in accord with the purposes of God, "In my name." Think about what the names of Jesus mean. Emmanuel means God with us, and Jesus means savior, so we might ask for things that put us into the presence of God, or things that will be saving and redemptive. Just rambling around. Joy in Ind.
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 04:59 AM
Could "the one who believes" and will do great works be a collective? Could it be the church? Even though Jesus is answering a question from Philip, after the first sentence of his answer, John uses the plural form of "you" and plural verbs to record the rest of the answer. Perhaps Jesus is speaking of the collective unity of the church, rather than of individual members.
I've reached the point in my Catechism sermon series where we are talking about the church and its ministers ("lay persons, bishops, priests, and deacons" according to the Catechism, leaving no one out of the list). I'm using Peter's "living stones", "living temple" metaphor together with this lesson to talk about the mission and ministry of the church as a collaborative one, not a matter of individual effort but of mutual ministry.
I've also reached the point in my sermon prep where I will have to set it aside for a couple of days after some more work this evening. This afternoon (Tuesday, 4/23) I will go to the hospital for the pre-admission stuff (blood draw, chest x-ray, history questions), then at 5 a.m. tomorrow I'll return to the hospital to be admitted. The surgical harvesting of the bone marrow is scheduled for 8 a.m. Hopefully all will go well and I will be back home by late afternoon.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 05:07 AM
I don't think Jesus is telling the disciples that by simply tacking His name at the end of their prayers He will grant what is asked. What's in a name? What's in the name of Jesus? How could a person ask for something that he or she knows Jesus would never ask for and expect Him to grant it? For example, the death of an enemy. To ask in His name precludes asking that His will be done. To ask something contrary to what Jesus is about is to dishonor the name in which a person is petitioning.
John near Pitts
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 09:06 AM
"I will do whatever you ask in my name..." I believe refers to the previous verse..."you will do greater works than these.." the greater works which we are called to do will be done through Jesus Christ...and those works will glorify God, and not ourselves. Jesus will do through us what glorifies God...and not just what we ask.
Also, Jesus as the way, truth, and life. Karl Rahner, a catholic theologian, uses the term anynomous Christians to refer to those who seem to follow the way of Christ, yet do not explicitly state it with their lips. It's a nice idea that Jesus works in places we do not even expect, even where people would reject him...even on a cross.
RB in Canada
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 10:30 AM
Eric, My prayers are with you as you go through your marrow harvesting. Blessings for your generosity, you care and compassion. Is not what you are doing this week related to the Gospel of John? lp in CO
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 10:36 AM
Many years ago---about twenty, I was in a Master's program at Creighton in Omaha. I remember a book we studied which was titled: "Modeling God." I don't remember the author. Way to many years and too much water under the bridge. However, I do remember this. The thesis of the book is that we try to create God. We try to model God--like taking clay and creating a fdigure. We try very hard to come up with a concrete image of God. I'm not sure how this fits with the Gospel, but much of the discussion here is on those who will come to the Father/Mother. For whatever this is worth...lp in CO
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 11:06 AM
Eric,
My prayers are with you. I have been told this donation can be painful, so I will pray for God to lessen the pain, and to give you endurance and peace. You are giving a part of your life, some might say that you are sharing your soul. I give you thanks for your gift in the name of Jesus, who is both giver and receiver of all.
Michelle
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 11:20 AM
Eric - God be with you, brother
Mike in SD - thanks; I got it! No apology necessary - I was just a little embarassed that I might have come across as elitist.
EVeryone who's wondering about coming to the Father through Jesus - Gail O'Day suggests that it is not specifically AGAINST other religions, that the time and people Jesus was addressing was Judeo-specific and not concerned with anything other than Judaism. In that vein, since no one was allowed to see God's face without dying, for Jesus to say "whoever has seen me has seen the Father" was quite remarkable. Because of Jesus' relationship with his father, we who abide in him (as in a room in a dwelling), also have a personal relationship with God.
As to universal salvation: hmmm... while I don't quite buy that millions are going to hell daily because I haven't talked 'em into confessing Christ, I can't see the universal salvation in this text, either. While I don't buy that this is a dividing-sword for saved/unsaved, it is clear that a relationship with God hinges on Jesus as Messiah. This is important for today and not just for the afterlife - and not just as a touchy-feely warm fuzzy. This is important because a relationship with Christ offers peace.
I'm not sure where I'm going, or if I'll stay with the Gospel this week. But I found a nice resource of a variety of commentaries that will get e-mailed to you weekly for a small fee. Whether or not I agree, it generates thought!
dick@sermonwriter.com
Sally in GA
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 01:12 PM
Eric in KS,
You will be in my prayers also on Tuesday and Wednesday. May the Lord be with you.
tom in ga
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 01:23 PM
My title (at this early point in the week) is "A Hug and a Nudge" I see this scripture as both in that it is reassuring (especially in the early part), but it also calls us to use that assurance to move forward in faith and service (in the later verses).
That's enough parantheses for this week.
jjinchassc
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 02:12 PM
Eric, my prayers are also with you through the harvesting. God will continued to bless you with beauty and peace, I know. CEinCO
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 07:30 PM
Eric, May God's peace saturate every cell in your body and may God hold you in the palm of her hand. Manzel
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 07:43 PM
"No one comes to the FATHER except through me.
One of my astute members suggests that it's the particular RELATIONSHIP that Jesus is making exclusive here -- not entry to heaven, nor knowledge of the Divine.
Folks can still know the Creator, the Law GIver, the Deliverer of Israel, etc. -- and even the Holy One on High. But to know God-the-Father, Abba, as Jesus came to introduce God... well, that relationship is only possible by knowing the Father as Jesus knew the Father.
His insight helped me see this better. V. 7 then becomes explanatory for what Jesus was getting at: "If you know me, then you will know the Father also."
It also helps to remember that John was writing a word of encouragement to Christians who were being called to pay a high price for their faith in Christ -- namely, persecution and potentially death. He wanted to hold them to their primary "relationship" with the Father through the Son JEsus.
Is this the way to truth and life for us? RevSis
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 08:23 PM
Eric, through your gift of bone marrow and your willingness to face some suffering, God's name is being glorified in this little place on the web. People are in prayer for you and for the recipient. "Believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me but if you do not, believe in me because of the works themselves." You are doing this not to glorify yourself but just because God is giving you the chance to do it. My brother, you are teaching the scripture to the world through your love.
May God bless you as you face Wednesday. Mike in SD,TN
Date: April 23, 2002
Time: 10:47 PM
I can not stay silent anymore.
It says, "No one comes to the Father except through me", doesn't it? Didn't He also say "I am the Gate" in last week's text?
What if Jesus is really being exclusive? What if God has favorites (e.g. Able vs Cain, Saul vs David) What if fair as we understand it, is only a human concept? Does it say anywhere in the Scriptures that He treats us all equally? That all religions look to Him? No. My God is a Trinity. Is the Muslim God a Trinity? They do not worship the same God, though I woud admit they are seeking the same God. After all, God is God, isn't He allowed to choose the ones that He would accept?
What is wrong with God wishing the world to come to Him through Jesus His Son? He wants all to come to Him, and there is room for us all as in the rooms that are ready for us. But we are justified only through the blood of Jesus, we are saved by our faith in Him. Isn't this what the Bible teaches? Jesus is the one who carried the sins of the world onto the cross. Jesus is the one.. not Buddha, not Mohamed, not any other religion. If all religion saves, then why would God require Jesus to have died on the cross? Why would He have needed to die at all?
I am so sick of the Church being "politically correct". While other religions would fearlessly teach that their way is the only way, we are spineless in preaching the Gospel, for fear that we may not come across "loving". I think we've got it wrong, and we are all going to be accountable for the mess we have made of Christ's teachings.
A fed up preacher in Canada
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 03:03 AM
Good Morning! Does anyone have a good story that illustrates "the peace of Christ" from john "My peace I give to you." nancy-Wi
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 03:16 AM
Today (Wed. 4/24) is the day. It's 5:15 a.m. here and we're about to go to the hospital.
Thanks to everyone for your prayers and kind words. I know that if you'd been called and told you were a bone-marrow match for someone, you'd all be doing the same.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 04:20 AM
Someone said earlier, "The trouble with all religions is that they all fall way short of their founder's ideals." I think most of us would agree that could be said about Christians as well. Just look at Phillip. Like us, he just doesn't yet get it.
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 05:22 AM
We are in the midst of appointment making. As It stands right now I am being appointed to a five church charge. Pray for me. In My Father's house where I was raised I can see the heavenly Father's house too bad not everyone was that lucky. 1. In My Father's House there is love 2. In my Father's house there is security 3. In My Father's house is provision 4. In my Father's house there is healing 5. In My Father's house there are blessings
Harold in Alabama
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 05:32 AM
Preacher in Canada,
Thank you! We tend to expect fairness to be one of the attributes of God because it is expected of us. The Bible says that God is just which is NOT the same thing. It also says that God is merciful and that He is sovereign. Those are all pretty heavy-duty attributes but there is nothing in there about fairness.
The first lesson I had to teach my children is that the world is not fair. It's unfortunate but it's true. When people use that word,they usually mean "fair for me" not "fair for everyone." God isn't that shallow; why should we expect Him to be. At the cross, He gives everyone an equal chance on the same terms. That's about as level a playing field as I've ever seen.
Mike in SD,TN
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 08:23 AM
To "fed up in Canada." You seem angry that others are interpreting a wider understanding of who is loved by God. Why are you angry? Brent
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 08:26 AM
To "fed up in Canada." You seem angry that others are interpreting a wider understanding of who is loved by God. Why are you angry? Brent
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 08:38 AM
I have heard a couple of interpretations of the words "in my Father's house their are many dwelling places." One is that apparently some early Christians believed there were different class-rooms we would go to after we died, depending on the lessons we still had to learn. If we didn't learn much about love on earth, we went to class-rooms after we died to continue to further our growth so we could be the kind of persons God intended us to be. The second is that Jesus is trying to say there is room (or rooms) for everyone in heaven. Even if doors are closed to you on earth, in heaven you will never be shut out. There is room for all. John intends to convey the message that Jesus is very welcoming and hospitable, and we never need to be afraid. To generate fear from this passage would not be its intend. Brent
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 09:23 AM
Blessings on you Eric and a prayer for both of you today and as you and the person recover. H in Iowa
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 09:59 AM
Do you all know about textweek.com? Links to tons of lectionary-related sites.
I'm preaching "Homecoming" (annual reunion/ celebration of those who have died in past year) at a former congregation this week -- and am toying with the phrase from Richard Foster's book on prayer, "finding your heart's true home."
translation issues: v. 2, "house" can also be "household," a community of people, and "dwelling places" implies more than physical structure: its only other use in NT as Jn. 14:23, "... we will come to them and make our home with them." -- implying that abiding relationship of God's indwelling with us through Christ that's so much a theme throughout Jn.
So what if we'd translated v. 2 as "In my father's household (family) there are many relationships in which God/Christ abides." ??
Also, v. 3 - what if it's true, and the "place" that Jesus goes to prepare really is himself?
Just as "the way" is not a road to a destination, but a means of connection, the "dwelling" is not a location, but a relationship. It's a relationship that we glimpse here in our relationships among the body of Christ -- so that one way to imagine our ultimate "home" is to remember how it felt to receive a hug from J.D., or a visit from Judy, or a toy from Janette's stash of gifts she always kept on hand for children ...
(see www.crossmarks.com/brian/john14x1.htm for more details - he's done a nice job of research and reflection.)
kay
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 10:17 AM
RB in Canada mentioned Karl Rahner's identification of pious members of other religions as "anonymous Christians." I've heard it asked, how would Christians like it if we were called "anonymous Buddhists"? It's really a bit naive and a bit arrogant to assume there is some fundamental identity between world religions. I also think we have to take Jesus at face value when he says "I am the gate" and "I am the way." On the other hand, God is a lot smarter than I am and knows people's hearts -- he is the one who will be making the Last Judgment, not me. (Thank God!) -- Mike in Maryland
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 10:53 AM
Dear friends,
In regards to the issue of salvation, I usually come at it from a positive perspective. I know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. I know where the well of living water is. Why would I be ashamed or fearful of telling others about it? I cannot speculate about the wells they drink from; indeed, I am Scripturally commanded not to do so (it is not for us to judge). But we *are* called to proclaim the Gospel, to give witness to the grace and love we have found through new life in Christ. If everyone in the world were sick, and we knew the cure, it would be reprehensible to "keep it to ourselves" for fear of offending. As regards universal salvation, my usual response is that I would not presume to be so judgmental as to suggest that everyone is going to heaven. That is (thankfully!) up to God - it is only by grace that we have the assurance of Christ that there is a place prepared for us. Beyond that, speculating on others salvation (and perhaps even our own), whether from a "universalist" or "exclusivist" perspective, becomes an exercise in hubris and idolatry. I for one am glad that I don't have the responsibility to decide who's in and who's out.
It also seems from this passage that the relationship with God through Christ is vital, as RevSis pointed out. That is the context for "If in my name you ask me for anything..." Not cosmic Santa Claus; I think the point is that if our relationship with God is as close as parent to child, then what we "ask" for will necessarily change. When we are transformed by grace, it changes our perspective until we understand that what we "need" is to be closer and more obedient to God (and not "give me a million bucks" as, out of context, verse 14 might lend itself to).
And one more thing... please give some name to the posts on this forum. When I read a provocative statement, its impact is considerably lessened when it is anonymous. It almost feels to me like we've been "flamed". And Eric, you are probably coming out of surgery now, but may read this later ... prayers are being raised for you from Kentucky.
Shalom,
Bo in KY
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 12:06 PM
My daughter is into contemporary Christian music, K Love is the station. The song IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE is drumming in my ears. Some of the lyrics are, big big table with lots and lots of food, big, big yard where we can play football. Am I missing anything positive in this song? But after all, I sang "I've got a mansion just over the hill top in that bright land where we'll never grow old, and some day younder well never more wander, but walk on streets that are paved with gold. Neither my generation or my daughter's have gotten it. We want the house not the Father. Think how He must feel. I think you are right on target RevSis, it is relationship, but that doesn't seem to sell many tickets. jrbnrnc
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 12:46 PM
jrbnrc - Thank you. That's a good way to put it.
I'm a Jesus freak, but it wasn't the threat of hell or the promise of heaven that brought me into relationship with Christ. It was that Christ offers not just new life, but life anew - and that this life never ends.
Are we focused more on our reward (either eternal or Pharisaically earthly) or would we REALLY, as Stephen did, pray for our enemies as they were stoning us? I know that I much prefer the former to the latter. Most folks - Christians, too - are more likely to condemn their enemies or pray to be delivered from them - than to pray for their forgiveness. Life anew in Christ enables - nay, emboldens - us to be concerned with our enemies' souls while we're going down.
Sally in GA
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 02:01 PM
Thomas said, "Lord, we do not know where you are going."
It reminds me of when Alice in Wonderland was talking with the Cheshire Cat: 'Come, it's pleased so far', thought Alice, and she went on. 'Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?' 'That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat. 'I don't much care where----' said Alice. 'Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat. '----so long as I get somewhere,' Alice added as an explanation. 'Oh, you're sure to do that,' said the Cat, 'if you only walk enough.'
By prevenient grace, we know that there is somewhere we need to be in order to be complete and whole. Until we know that the way to this "somewhere" is Jesus Christ, we are like the songwriters and poets who speculate. Perhaps that is part of the appeal of songs like "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" from the Wizard of Oz, or "There's A Time for Us" from West Side Story, or even "Somewhere Out There" from An American Tail.
Jesus shows us the Father, who dwells not in some vague "somewhere" but uniquely in Jesus (vs. 10).
OLAS
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 02:57 PM
I have a problem with the concept that equates believing that some people might not be going to heaven because of their beliefs (faiths, religions, whatever) with believing that God loves some people more than others (or, vice versa, that He does not love some people as much as others). Good old John 3:16-18 covers that. God loved the entire world (vs. 16); He sent a method of salvation (vs. 17); those who don't apply that method have a problem (vs. 18).
About every one of the major world religions that I can think of involves having to live up to a standard during one's life. in Judaism, it is the Law of Moses. In Islam, one faces a judgement after death based on your obedience to those laws. In Hinduism, one's life is judged to determine the next position on the ladder. In Buddhism, the question involves the attainment of enlightenment. God is just. He has said that He is willing to make a judgement based on His standards but, in His mercy, He has offered a another Way because His standards are beyond us.
The wonderful thing is that, as several people have said, the Way leads to something more wonderful that just the avoidance of something bad. Jesus is the Way and to be in the Way is to be in relationship with Him. That's pretty neat stuff (sorry, showing my age).
I'm aware enough of my failings to know that I couldn't have passed that test on my own strengths. God may judge that others did/will make it. If so, I'll be able to rejoice with them one day. I just know that when I get to heaven, it will be under Christ's strength. That's the only Way that I know so it is the only Way that I can preach.
Sorry to be so long-winded. Mike in SD, TN
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 03:05 PM
Hi, everybody! Home from the hospital. Everything went just as smoothly as it could. My back is a little sore (and I do mean my back, not my "backside")... the incisions for the harvesting needles (long skinny pipes, really) were made in my lower back just about where the waistband of my pants rests... And that's really the only discomfort.
They tell me that the recipient will have gotten the 1458 cc's (that's how much they got) of marrow by 8 p.m. this evening. (I still don't know where he is .. but I was able to send him a letter and I told him about the DPS community and your prayers.)
So, here I am ... will have some thoughts relative to the pericopes tomorrow.
Thanks again for all the prayer support.
Blessing, Eric in KS
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 06:46 PM
All right, Eric! You've been in my prayers, too --and I just need to tell y'all that last weekend, our church held a huge bone marrow drive in honor of a 4-year old girl in our day care center who lost her twin sister to leukemia 2 years ago. Jillian was diagnosed about 3 weeks ago as having come out of remission. The man who donated marrow for her sister may do so for her as well; he's even a better match for her than he was for her sis. Please hold this child, her family (parents and older sibs), and potential donors in your prayers.
Thanks for putting up with a prayer request on the lectionary link -- Eric's experience offered a connection that seemed more personal and palpable than over on the prayer link. Kay
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 08:51 PM
It could be dangerous to take John's spiritual writing and rigidify it as literalism. To take it all too literally makes it idolatrous. It also smothers the "living Word" and deprives it of its dynamic, God-breathed inspiration -- leaving only dead letters with obvious, blatant "truths" that we then use to glorify our inheritance or dangle over outsiders.
Let me explain how I see RELATIONSHIP as the primary aim of Jesus in his farewell discourse.
"In my Father's house[hold] are many dwelling [abiding] places..." If we use the old "mansions" translation (which lingers in our memories anyway), we get that selfishly dreamy "home in glory land that outshines the sun" or the mansion "just over the hilltop" sung by jrbnrnc. Instead, if we see the abiding places Jesus names as not a physical location, but rather a spiritual nearness ("There is a 'place' of quiet rest Near to the heart of God..."), then we realize an ETERNAL RELATIONSHIP with God is possible through Jesus Christ, who prepares such nearness for us.
"I am the way... No one comes to the Father but through [by] me." If we concretely claim these words for our exclusive privilege as Christians, then we begin to see ourselves "chosen" by God for heavenly reward rather than chosen for earthly service for the glory of God. Instead, if we hear Jesus inviting us to "see" the Father by seeing Him, then we realize we can live in a TRUSTING, CHILDLIKE RELATIONSHIP with God, the Father Jesus loves and reveals.
"I will do whatever you ask in my name." If we think we can just rubber stamp every prayer with "...in Jesus' name. Amen," then we are again taking all his words simply for our own gain and power. Instead, if we honor Jesus' spiritual intention of being in Christ as He is in God, and having Christ in us as God is in Christ, then we will pray out of a FAITHFUL & DISCERNING RELATIONSHIP with God. "In Jesus' name" will be the result of seeking the character and intention and purposes of Jesus.
All of these phrases can be used to gratify ourselves if we read them literally. They become RELATIONAL and Christ-centered if we read them spiritually -- as, I believe, John's Jesus meant them.
Peace. RevSis
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 09:09 PM
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me.
It’s almost been two years, two years. I would have hardly believed that we might all have lived two more years, especially my friend, her mother. Two years that her daughter’s voice was never heard, but always kept going around and around in her head. In mine too, at least how I think she sounded. Her voice was on their answering machine for the longest time. They didn’t erase it, for even months after. I’m not sure that they ever erased it. Probably just got another answering machine. It wouldn’t surprise me if today, at least every now and again, they still pull and out and play it, just to hear her. It’s funny, I remember how it was with my grandmother who practically helped raise me, after awhile, after she was gone, one day I realized I could no longer remember how she sounded. It’s funny, you know. Troubled hearts.
Two years. It’s not very long, really. I have a friend whose son is graduating from high school. He was such a scrawny kid two years ago. He played football for the local high school team. He was just arms, legs, and feet. Man he had some feet … gun boat feet, they were, really huge feet. How does a kid get feet so big? I mean his father’s feet aren’t abnormal, but his … Lord, did you put the wrong feet on that kid? But no, it was two years and you should see the kid now. He filled out, as they say, grew into his feet. I’d hate to be a quarterback that got tackled by him. Woaaah, I bet it would hurt. Two years. She was supposed to be graduating too. But instead, her mom asked me to be one of the folks who look over the memorial scholarship applications. Two years … do not let your hearts … do not.
I still remember our last conversation. It was only three days before it happened. Who would have thought. It seems really strange now, talking about college and all. Soccer, band, college, they were all interesting topics for conversation. We even talked about her mom, my friend. That was fun … chuckle. I didn’t know some of the things about her mom that she told me that day. I was delighted … more stuff with which to tease. It’s fun having fun stuff on other people, isn’t it? Man, we laughed so hard I thought my sides would split. Of course, as soon as her mom walked in we shut up. Oh, but her mom knew … we looked so guilty and then we just burst out laughing. Her mom kept saying, “What, what?” But we weren’t talking. It was a federation of sorts, or at least as much of a federation as a middle-aged guy like me and a teenage girl can have. But it would do for the day. It would do. Believe in what? A time together maybe? Memories?
My son has gun boat feet too. They were friends, she and my son. He was a year ahead but she was late starting school. Their birthdays were almost on the same day. Two weeks apart actually. She would call him old and he would call her a kid. Two weeks, that was all. They didn’t hang around together all the time, but sometimes, many times, she would come and visit her good friend who lived next door. On those days she and her friend would sit out on the steps and watch him skateboard. They would laugh when he would land on his butt. It didn’t happen often, but happen it most certainly would. He would act ticked, but he never was. You could see the gleam in his eye. He always did seem to have a gleam when she was around. I always used to think that it would be pretty cool if one day they fell in love. Stupid thoughts of a silly dad, I know, but it’s good to be stupid and silly about one’s kid. When it happened, my son shut down. I mean really shut down. It was her death, but there were other deaths that followed, another friend, his granddad, a friend’s mother. Bunches of death. A kid can only take so much. Adults, too. Two years, that’s about what it takes to start up again, but just barely. Believe in God, why?
I was amazed that her mom was able to function at all. We had lunch the other day and though we laughed and talked about many things, I kept wondering … are you thinking about the day coming up again … just three weeks away. I have been, almost every day. How can my friend not think about it? There are few things that will ever be as vivid for me. A call at the airport. A mad drive back to our city. Running through the hospital halls. I had done it before as a pastor. I had made the journey to the Emergency Room for some in my congregation. But during those times I had never run. A quick dignified and hurried walk would always do. But not on that day. It was a wild and crazy run. Remember Steve Martin on Saturday Night Live. He used to always say that … “I’m just a Wild and Crazy Guy.” I don’t remember crying then. I don’t remember hardly being able to see for the tears. I don’t remember the beating heart like it was about to pound out of your chest. Jesus, I don’t remember feeling like I would throw up, the way I felt when I saw the doctor shaking his head. I thought my friend would squeeze that pounding heart right out of my body when she hugged me. Her husband was there, too. I held his hand while she hugged me. I’m sure it was a touching scene, but I don’t remember that either. Two years. It’s not long enough for the memories to fade. Maybe they never will. Sometimes all hearts can do is be troubled.
I loved her, you know. I loved her with her dingy jeans and her floppin’ tennis shoes that I would hear when she was coming up the stairs to my second floor office. And I really don’t know why I thinking about her so much because I haven’t thought about her everyday in quite a long while. Two years ago, I sure did. I thought about her everyday for months. For the first few months or so, it was tough to even think enough to work. It was tough for all of us, those of us at that place where her mom worked, at that place which was a refuge for so many others. But we just tried to keep going, even her mom, particularly her mom. We just tried to live one day at a time. I think we couldn’t have done it if each day we weren’t caring for those in our community who also hurt … hurt because they are poor, or lonely, or lost. Those who are right down on the bottom. That was their gift to us, the sacrament of the poor to us, us who were the wealthy, us who were the caregivers. But generally, the caregiving was coming more our way. For months it came our way. And after a bit, a long bit, I didn’t think about her everyday. But now I do again. I guess that’s what anniversary days do for you. Especially when suicide is part of it. I need some life, Lord, and so does my friend. She really needs it.
Today, somewhere between some meeting and another report, somewhere between taking a call from folks down on the coast who wanted to know some information about a foreign mission ministry and another click on my computer keyboard, somewhere in there, another friend came to visit me. He’s kind of a crazy guy, a pastor I work with who … how do they say it? … marches to a different drummer. He turned 50 recently. When his wife asked him what he wanted for such a momentous birthday, he said he wanted a little thing-a-ma-jig that blows up balloons and a book about how to make balloon animals and stuff like that. I would have thought he was kidding. But I guess being married to him, well, she learned to march to that drummer as well. So, for the last few days, he has been reading his book about how to make these really silly animals. It would be cute, but as I said, the man is 50. He came in to tell me about how he has been going all over the place making balloons for people. He stopped a woman in the mall the other day. He said she looked harried. So, he slowed her down and gave her a poorly-made balloon dog. He gave balloons to two kids in a restaurant. The big kid didn’t take it, so my friend gave both balloons to the little kid. My friend said that later he looked over, and the big kid was playing with the red balloon. Later my pastor friend found himself at the hospital. He was passing the Oncology waiting area. Of course, he couldn’t help himself from giving a balloon to some bald lady who was sitting in there all by herself. Imagine that. Giving an animal balloon to a lonely woman with a scarf on her head. All the while he was telling me these things, my friend was blowing up a balloon, tying the ends, and twisting it into the weirdest shape. Then he handed it to me. He gave me a stupid black wiener-dog balloon. It’s got to be the silliest thing in the world. I love it. I’m still crying.
Two years. How did my friend know? Yes Lord, I believe. I believe.
Shalom my friends,
Nail-Bender in NC
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 09:09 PM
I preach from a preaching plan I create based on the lectionary. A couple of times a year I go on retreat, read the lectionary scriptures, pray, reflect on the life of my congregation and try to listen to the ways God is leading me. For each week I select one perhaps two of the lectionary scriptures to emphasize, develop a theme, write a sermon title and make some notes. It is this plan that our musicians, associate pastor and others use to plan their parts of our worship service. On Monday I took out my notes on the scripture from John so I could begin to "marinade" in the scripture and reflect on what God was showing me through it. I read my notes and my sermon title which is "A Hands on Faith" and I thought "What was I thinking!"
After reflection I see this scripture as one more indication that our God is a "hands on", involved, committed and caring God. Jesus is a "hands on" savior who was willing to laugh and cry, suffer and die for our sake. And the best part is that Jesus tells he will be a "hands on" part of our ultimate future with God. He even goes before us to prepare a place for us.
What a contrast to the Gnostic influences in the early church that claimed everything spiritual was positive and everything material was negative so therefore Jesus wasn't really human. We just thought he was! What a contrast to the Greek Stoics and their belief that God is an unemotional and detached being who does not feel our pain.
The good news is that Jesus is a hands on savior who took risks to express his love for us. Eric, it has been inspiring to read of your willingness to take a hands on risk to give someone in need a chance at life. I appreciate the way you've shared his love and the inspiration you have given my sermon this week.
Peace, Diana at the lakes
Date: April 24, 2002
Time: 09:11 PM
Eric my brother,
Thank you.
Shalom,
Nail-Bender in NC
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 08:41 AM
Years ago, I read a sermon by Leslie Weatherhead (from when he was at City Temple in London)and he suggested that the word translated as dwelling- place actually refers to a roadside inn, a place where weary travelers can find rest and refreshment, a place where one can prepare in quiet for the next day's journey. Buechner also has a great quote somewhere (I think its in Telling Truth;The Gospel as Tragedy, Comedy, and Fairy Tale)something like "we may realize that it is still many a day's journey till we reach the fountain in the middle of the square.
So I'm not so sure that this is only about life after the event of death. Sounds almost like Dr. Suess's "Oh, the Places You'll Go" a sense of comfort that Christ is still our companion on the way, and that there are places and events yet to come that will have a restorative and regenerative effort (and balloon animals strike me as just such a blessed place, Nailbender.) And to think that God continues to provide such places for us (I know, I Know, my Presbyterian/Reformed theology is coming out again, but this is actually more about providence than predestination.)Of course, we don't always recognize those places in the moment, but they are still there.
So maybe this isn't all about life after the event of death, but life after the event of Christ.
grace and peace; RevGilmer in Texarkana
P.s. One thing I really appreciate about this forum is your willingness to use your imaginations and your willingness to use the beautiful languages of fantasy and fairy tale to communicate the Gospel. My preaching is richer and deeper because of you. Thanks
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 09:10 AM
LIVE IN A MANSION v 1 IN AN EXCLUSIVE NEIGHBORHOOD v 6 BY SIGHT OR SENSATIONALISM NOT BY FAITH v 8 BE ABLE TO OUT DO OTHERS v 12 HAVE EVERYTHING YOU ASK FOR v14
Sounds like the American Dream Not the Relational Reality of My Father's House RELATIONSHIP WITH A LOVING FATHER-GOD REVEALED ONLY THROUGH CHIRST RECEIVED ONLY BY FATIH REACHING BEYOND OUR OWN ABILITIES REQUESTING WHAT HE WANTS
Thanks Revsis for the new song "There is a Place of Quiet Rest Near to the Heart of God".
Frank (subscriber's area), I just can't go with the big big yard where we can play football for the children's story although I do see that it is saying that heaven is a happy place. I am going to change pillow cases to prepare the room for some special friends who are coming to visit next week. Imagine Jesus (not yet on the throne next to the Father but) fluffing up the pillows joyfully getting my room ready in the Father's house. That sounds so like the Jesus I know. Don't you just love Him? jrbnrnc
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 09:13 AM
LIVE IN A MANSION v 1 IN AN EXCLUSIVE NEIGHBORHOOD v 6 BY SIGHT OR SENSATIONALISM NOT BY FAITH v 8 BE ABLE TO OUT DO OTHERS v 12 HAVE EVERYTHING YOU ASK FOR v14
Sounds like the American Dream Not the Relational Reality of My Father's House RELATIONSHIP WITH A LOVING FATHER-GOD REVEALED ONLY THROUGH CHIRST RECEIVED ONLY BY FATIH REACHING BEYOND OUR OWN ABILITIES REQUESTING WHAT HE WANTS
Thanks Revsis for the new song "There is a Place of Quiet Rest Near to the Heart of God".
Frank (subscriber's area), I just can't go with the big big yard where we can play football for the children's story although I do see that it is saying that heaven is a happy place. I am going to change pillow cases to prepare the room for some special friends who are coming to visit next week. Imagine Jesus (not yet on the throne next to the Father but) fluffing up the pillows joyfully getting my room ready in the Father's house. That sounds so like the Jesus I know. Don't you just love Him?
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 09:14 AM
oops jrbnrnc is the alliterist above
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 11:42 AM
Nail Bender - I'm still crying, too. Thank you.
Sally in GA
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 11:43 AM
Eric - Glad you're back and that all went well!!!
Sally
Date: April 25, 2002
Time: 12:47 PM
Hey gang! There's an article in the KC Star about the bone marrow thing....
Thanks again for your prayers. I have had virtually no pain ... the sore throat from the amnesia intubation is the biggest problem!
Blessings, Eric in KS
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 08:03 AM
One of the things we find from disasters like the World Trade Center is that many people move away from the place. It is predictable. As New York City pastor I am seeing so many pastors and members who are looking to move. I have already lost some good friends who have moved on.
This week I heard a bishop comment about the pain and anger he feels with so many moving on. I too am having to replace staff at a rate as never before.
This story of Jesus speaking to his disciples about moving on is of interest because we often use it at funerals to give hope that the person who has left us is in the glory that Jesus promises and prepares for us. What about those of us who are left behind? How is this story relevant?
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 09:04 AM
For the commumity member who asks "How is this story relevant to the ones that are left behind?" I offer this thought:
I have a beautiful thirteen-year old daughter. One day, she will leave home-maybe for college, a career, or to start her own family. My wife and I will be the ones left behind, in a sense. When Nancy leaves home, I hope it will be in the company of someone I trust to care for her.
One of the comforts I offer to the family at the funeral is that our loved one is going to the company, not of a stranger, but a friend, someone who has prepared a place for them in love that has no beginning and no end.
Grace and Peace; RevGilmer in Texarkana
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 10:45 AM
For our brother or sister in New York,
Jesus says, ?I prepare a place.? I prepare a place for you there in the rubble of that destroyed building, there in the debris of the lives who have so drastically been shattered in the nightmare, in the horror, in the hurt. I prepare a place for you, there in the life of every confused and homeless soul seeking to find shelter for just one more day. I prepare a place for you there in the lives of harried and the hurried and the lost, there with those who sell their souls in the mad dash for more power, more prestige, and more possession. I prepare a place for you whenever hell appears to reign, wherever hope appears lost, and with whomever appears to be the least. I prepare a place for you so that you might find me there in the ashes, in what seems to be the utter devastation of my creation. I prepare a place for you my child, so that you might find life, so that you might discover me in the most distressing of disguises. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, but if you do not, believe me for the works that are there waiting for you, those places that you are sure to find me in the least and the lost and the last.
Others may lack the courage and the stamina to go to these places which I prepare. Others might flee in hopes that they may find me elsewhere, somewhere that is safe, somewhere that seems secure, but my child, as they flee from these places of my preparation, they flee from the wonder of miracle and life that I prepare for them. Though they may save their bodies, at least for a time, they will surely miss my banquet. The world is not as it seems and the Kingdom cannot be denied, only refused. So go, go in the Way, go and find me there waiting for you. Go, so that you might be a Child of God, so that you might be Light.
For I am the way, the truth, and the life, especially when it might appear otherwise. I am the Paradox. I am the Lord. I AM. I AM so that you might BE.
Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me.
Shalom my friend,
Nail-Bender in NC
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 11:29 AM
Bret... You ask why I sound angry... I am not angry.. I am fed up with the Gospel being diluted.
Have a friend in Nigeria, who was raised from the dead..He is a pastor.. He says he was given a second chance, to preach about the existance of hell. His story can be found on the internet.. http://www.cfan.org/offices/canada/testimonies/resurrection/page1.htm
And I believe him.
But as Jesus said..even though Lazarus was raised from the dead, some would not believe...
Faith is a wiered stuff. What allows some of us to believe the Scriptures without questioning, while others come to Christ with all sorts of disbelief.
As pastors, we are judged even harsher. We are accountable for what we teach. I guess I am seeing too many lukewarm teachers teaching things that are not supported by Scriptures. I am just fedup of the mental excercise, and lack of openness to the Scriptures.. That is what it is all about.
Jesus said he is the way. THE way, and not A way, nor not ANOTHER way. Is being "politically correct" what we are called to be? Or are we to pick up our cross and follow him into the Kingdom through the NARROW gate, hated by world? What is true discipleship? Our way or God's way? That is what I am talking about...
A fed up preacher in Canada
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 11:55 AM
Is the gospel being diluted... Or sacrificed?
I know that I refuse to limit the possibilities of how and through whom God can work. On the other hand, I KNOW that through Jesus Christ I am resurrected, along with all others called through Jesus Christ. How can we withhold the GOOD NEWS by saying all religions save? I can't preach that, because I don't know whether God will work in the vein of the "anonymous" Christian. I DO know God works through Christ. We must preach Jesus Christ, crucified, resurrected, alive! If the Holy Spirit has reached us with this truth, how can we neglect to share it?
Michelle
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 11:59 AM
Harold.....blessings on you. You will be a busy pastor with all those places to go and travel. I've been in a spot with four places and started to go crazy after 5 years and asked to be moved. I found I didn't take time for myself instead I let the work take over my life. Plese take good care of yourself! H in Iowa
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 12:00 PM
Harold.....blessings on you. You will be a busy pastor with all those places to go and travel. I've been in a spot with four places and started to go crazy after 5 years and asked to be moved. I found I didn't take time for myself instead I let the work take over my life. Plese take good care of yourself! H in Iowa
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 12:30 PM
Kay, We will hold this family in prayer. lp in CO
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 12:33 PM
Eric, Blessings to you! So if you're sore around your waistline, you just might have to get some bright red suspenders! :-) lp in CO
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 01:04 PM
Eric, I printed the article from the newspaper. Thank you for that. Also, I attend St. Paul School of Theology (on the Missouri side) in the summers. You have probably had Course of Study pastors at your church--those in first year--since they usually have to observe churches on Sundays. lp in CO
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 01:51 PM
Michelle,
I guess "sacrificed" is the word I wanted to use. "Many are called, but few are chosen"... that too was spoken by Christ. Jesus is the only way, and we better not forget that. Do you remember the 60s when Jesus movement grew? I loved their saying... ONE WAY!
Thank you for your words... You have given me an iota of hope that there are others out there trying to remain faithful to the Gospel as it was passed down to us.
My God is a Trinity. No ohter god. The Christian God.
- A fed up preacher with an iota of hope in Canada.
Date: April 26, 2002
Time: 08:34 PM
I am going to respond to "Fed up Preacher" and Michelle, not because I need to or even have to, but because I want to. It is my choice, fully conscious of what I am doing and the responsibility for doing so. And also in doing so I respect their right to hold their opinion.
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, No one comes to the Father except through me." This is the verse that is so often used for exclusiveness by certain quarters of the Christian church and faith.
Tell me, what is the name of the God we worship? "YHWH", "Yahweh", "Jehovah". This is translated in Exodus, when Moses asks the question, as "I am who I am."
When John in his gospel, (And I can assure those who read this literally, that John did not have the benefit of tape-recording), has Jesus saying "I am" , he is explaining theologically the connection that Jesus has with God the Father. John believes that Jesus and God are one.
We could therefore just as easily interpret the above verse. "God is the way, the truth and the life."
If God is love as John says in the first letter. Than I can just as easily interpret the above verse. "Love is the way, the truth and the life."
And so it can be applied to all the "I am" sayings in John's gospel. God, Love, Jesus.
This isn't just about Jesus THE PERSON. But the way of life that Jesus lived. If we live as he lived, we are living the way of God, the truth of our existence, and the whole life as God deemed it from the beginning.
Why do Christians believe they have a monopoly on "love" or "God", and we certainly do not have a monopoly on salvation or even eternal life.
So often this narrow mindset and attitude is derived from a desire to simply get others to comply with our "way", our "truth", our "life". We don't want to hear alternatives because they cause us to have to think a bit. And so mainly when we get tired and weary from trying to decipher the truth for ourselves, we simply demand that others agree with our position. To get people to come over to my way of thinking would be a simple solution to everything. I love it when people agree with me, because I don't have to think about it. But when someone disagrees or has a different perspective, it demands I put a bit of effort into it.
To convert people to my beliefs and only my beliefs is autocratic and dictatorial. It is imperialistic thinking, that has dominated Christianity for 1600 years.
This verse has been extensively used by certain Christians, to exclude others of having any worth. For a long time, this one text, was the main stay of missionary movements, and even the foundation of events such as the crusades and the inquisition.
I can assure those who want to use words of Jesus to exclude certain people from the love of God, that I find it difficult to believe Jesus would approve.
Read the context, not just the text.
Regards to all for a very enlightening discussion.
KGB in Aussie.
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 03:40 AM
Messenger of Peace
Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. Jesus Title: WWW.Yahoo.com
This might seem like a strange title for a sermon in light of today’s text. It is the night before Jesus’ crucifixion. He is celebrating the Passover meal with his disciples in an upper room and giving them final instructions as to how to live.
Let not your hearts be troubled, believe in God, believe also in me. It is as though Jesus is telling his followers to let their soul return to that place of rest where it recognizes God has been good to it. That place where the light of God’s presence is seen and felt. That place where we connect with the Father and the Son. A place within us, to which, we can only be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Sometimes, we are driven to the door of this inner sanctuary by our trials and struggles. Sometimes it is our sorrows that bring us to this upper room. In any case it is the wind of God’s Holy Spirit that lifts us up in heart, mind, and spirit carrying us to this inner court. It is the comfort of Jesus’ voice out of the darkness of our lives that speaks to us in difficult times reminding us of our hope and future in God’s divine plan for our lives.
Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. Believe in God, believe also in me were the words that Jesus spoke to his disciples on the night before he was betrayed.
There are many challenges in these words for us this morning. We want to trust Jesus and believe his words. But somehow our hearts are not with us. Our hearts are troubled about many things and we can not seem to free it for joyful obedience to Jesus Christ.
There are worries that will not seem to go away. Nineteen people killed in a school shooting in East Germany. Waiting for the results of our blood work that will not be in until next Tuesday; Mother falling at the nursing home. Graduation is only a few weeks away and we haven’t heard from any of the job interviews that we went on last month.
Serious matters aren’t they? But just as weighty if not more were the matters before the disciples on the evening Jesus was betrayed. He had come to tell them that he was going to die.
He had come to tell them that he would be leaving them and no longer would he walk with them as he had in the past. There was comfort in his words as he told the disciples he was going on their behalf to prepare a place for them so that where he would be they could also be.
He tried to reassure them that if this was not so he would never have said anything at all about this to them. He promised them that he would come again and take them with him so that they could once more in some future time be together.
He even told them that they knew the way where he was going. Now this was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Up until now his disciples had been silent. Listening to what he was saying, but Thomas had reached a boiling point. He had heard enough of this talk and felt compelled to speak. He said, “Lord, we do not know where you are going; (This wasn’t unusual for the disciples.)
They had seen Jesus rise early in the mornings and go off from them. He went up into the mountains often to be alone with God. Many times they did not know where he was going. It’s no wonder we find a frustrated Thomas saying, “Jesus we don’t know where you are going, how can we know the way?”
When our hearts are troubled it is sometimes hard for us to hear words of hope. When our hearts are troubled it is hard to see the plan that God has laid out for us. When our hearts are troubled it is difficult for us to see the face of God that is before us.
Like Thomas we all have our boiling points. Like Thomas we all want to know the how we are going to get to where we are going. We like road maps. Last week I spoke at a church on another district. I didn’t know the way so I clicked on WWW.Yahoo.Com to map out my route to this church. Yahoo Road maps are in color. They tell you step by step how to get to where you are going. They tell you how many miles it is from one point to the next and how many hours and minutes it will take you for your trip. Lines are drawn from point to point. You can see with your eyes where you are going and where you are to end up.
There was great peace in my heart and a sense of self confident as I looked at my Yahoo Road Map. I knew even before I started my trip that I could get there by following my Yahoo Road map.
I think this is what Thomas was asking for from Jesus - a Yahoo map.
But it is not a Yahoo Map that Jesus hands out to his disciples. Rather it is himself that he presents to his followers. He says I am the way. I am the road you must follow. I am the path that you must walk through the forestry of life.
Jesus knows that we are on a journey seeking truth and light. Jesus knows that each of us in our hearts wants to know what if right and good and just. He knows we will go to any mean necessary to find what we are seeking. He watches us as we call the physic hotline, as we telephone a friend, or poll the audience for help.
But Jesus says I am the truth. I am the one whom you seek. I am the answer to your life’s situations. He does not hold up before us a Yahoo Road Map, but he holds up before us the Father. He says believe in God if you want to know the way. Believe in God if you want to know the truth.
Who is God Who is God? He is the one who has made us in his image. He is the one who has put breath in our bodies. God is the one who has loved us so much that he has given his only Son to die for us so that we may be one with him.
Who is God? God is the one to whom we can turn when we are afraid. God is the one in whom we can place our trust when it seems that there is no one who can be trusted.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. Once we choose Jesus as the path to follow and believe that truth lies within him and him alone then; we experience life in a new and dynamic way.
We experience life with God. We walk in God’s presence and the troubles of this life that surround us as well as the darkness that seems to overwhelm us loses it strength and power over us.
Hearts once burdened with sadness and sorrow are freed to rejoice; not because there are no more troubles and sorrows, but because it is centered in and believes in God.
Believing in God
Believing in God is coming to the place in our faith journey where we trust God to be God. Believing in God is coming to that place where we stop trying to make happen what we think should happen and allow God’s will to be done in our lives. There are no Yahoo Roads Maps here, but simply faith and trust in God.
But faith and trust in God’s promises are oftentimes not enough for us, is it. We want more. Neither was this enough for the disciples in the upper room with Jesus two thousand years ago either.
It wasn’t enough that Jesus had promised to come and take them back with him to a mansion in his Father’s house. It wasn’t enough that Jesus had declared to them that the one who stood before them was the door to their future. They wanted more.
So Phillip speaks and says, Lord show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied. Stop for a moments and ask yourself this question. “What will it take to satisfy me?” Are you satisfied in your relationship with Christ today?
Phillip’s request reminds us of our human nature; our innate desire to be fulfilled, comfortable, at eased about where we are going. Like Phillip often there is just one more thing we need in order to be satisfied.
Show us the Father! Yes, that would do it. Show us the Father, Jesus. Can you imagine standing in Jesus’ shoes when Phillip makes this request?
Think about it. Before him is God in the flesh. Phillip had walked daily for almost three years with God. He had seen God heal the sick, give sight to the blind. He had seen God turn water into wine; he had seen God open blind eyes and even raise the dead. And he says, to God incarnated in Jesus Christ, “Show us the Father and “WE” shall be satisfied.”
Many times God is standing right before us and we do not recognize him. God spoke through Jesus in that brief encounter and said, “Phillip, have I been with you all this time, and yet you do not know me?”
What about us? Are our hearts so troubled that we can not see Jesus? Are the worries and concerns about illnesses, world conflict and crisis, tradity and humans suffering so great that we can not see the face of God that stands in our midst?
To see God we have to look beyond what our eyes show us. We have to look beyond the obvious. We must believe in Jesus. We must believe that Jesus and the Father are one in the same.
We must believe that the words that Jesus spoke were not his words but the words of God who lived in him; the same God who desires to live in you and me today.
What troubles your heart today? How has God revealed himself to you today? What would change if you look beyond your fears and concerns; your troubled heart this morning and looked into the face of Jesus?
What would be different for you as you left the church today if you went out with a determination to trust God to be God?
Where would you end up this week if you truly believed and trusted in God for the directions for your life?
God said through Jesus whatever we ask in his name, He will do it for us. God has great things in store for us. As a matter of fact, the work that God has for us to do is even greater than the work that Jesus did. Not because we are greater than Jesus, but because Jesus has gone before us and has prepared the way to the Father.
Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. You believe in God, Believe also in Jesus, for he and the Father are one.
Let us pray:
Almighty God, thank you for your Son Jesus the Christ. Thank you for his willingness to love us in spite of disbelief. Help us to follow in the path that he leads today; not by sight but by faith. Amen.
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 03:53 AM
I guess we will all make up our own mind what to believe no matter what anyone says. Other religions seek salvation like every other human being and really who's to say whats going to happen. I will know when I cross over for sure and not till then. But until that day comes I will look to Christ as my savior, yes Jesus, the one who came from God with a spirit of love, a character of God, a message of direction. To live my life with the same character Jesus displayed is important and I believe there are other religions who emphasize a similar character. But to replace Jesus, the Son of God, with only His character trait is wrong. I see that way of thinking watering down the wholeness of Jesus. Jesus is the bridge into eternity for me. Living a good life is not enough. Understanding and worshipping the relationship God sent to humanity by the Son holds a respect only Christians revere. If worshipping Jesus is wrong why would God have sent Jesus to usher in this new beginning? Why not send someone who said they were a prophet? Jesus said he was the Son of God, not just a prophet, but someone the world had never seen or heard or learned from in the same way since the beginning of time.
I will do my best to live with the same character Jesus did. I will love like he loved. But I will not knock Him off his throne and look at Jesus as anything but my Lord and your Lord. As Paul put it ...to live is Christ to die is gain.
KB in Ks. High five Canada & Michelle!
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 05:42 AM
Hi,
It's late on Saturday night here in Oz, but here's my 2 bob's worth anyway.
There is a uniquness about Jesus that we cannot ignore.
There is only one real God who has uniquely and definitively revealed himself in Jesus, the Christ, the Messiah, the Son, the Incarnate one. This Jesus is the truth about God and the truth about life.
Where we become arrogant is when we assume that Jesus/God is only present in people who think like us, or he is present only in "Christians". If we let Jesus be definitive in our understanding of God, we may discover that his love is much wider than we can possibly imagine, and he is out there in places we might never expect.
Alan from Brisbane.
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 06:01 AM
To Fed Up in Canada - You are not the only one, my friend, who mourns at the utter cowardice of most of those who refuse to see the Gospel of Jesus Christ as more than a few suggestions about how to be better, more accepting, vulnerable, and politically correct. I have long since abandoned hope regarding this board, except for the odd occasion when I return here for some of the other info on the site. Unfortunately, in these discussions, I find myself yearning for something besides the lukewarm, feel good pablum they tried to force feed us in seminary. There are still many of us who are bold to proclaim the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ and the command to proclaim that to the world to our congregations. Unfortunately, that is not to be found here. If that makes me a "Christian Imperialist" (EGAD what a prostitution of language and theology), then so be it. Jesus said he was The Way, The Truth, and The Life, and we ignore it at our own peril and all those to whom we refuse to proclaim that. Rev. Rick in So. Ga.
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 07:24 AM
I'm preaching about Stephen as a student of Jesus' praying style. In his last moments, Stephen prays as Jesus prayed when HE died. But his prayer is based on an even earlier example: "thy will be done." In the John scripture, when Jesus says that anything we pray in his name will come true, he doesn't mean that his name is some sort of magic word that will make whatever we want to happen come true. Jesus means that when we pray, we must pray in his SPIRIT, or as someone elses said, in accordance with the purposes of God. This is a subtle predecessor to Paul's statement that the Holy Spirit prays for us when we don't know how to pray. We must surrender our lives and our wills to God's will, even in our prayer lives. If our prayers are God's prayers, how can they NOT come true?
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 07:26 AM
Thank you "Messenger of Peace", for a powerful sermon, that lifts up Jesus without getting bogged down in the exclusive/inclusive fight. (It started as a good discussion and seems to be disintegrating into another fight...). Lord have mercy on us. DGinNYC
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 07:53 AM
It takes two to speak the truth one to speak, and another to hear. --- Henry David Thoreau 1817
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 08:02 AM
Please, let us be open to discussion. When someone has a strong opinion, let's hear it. We are not fighting any more than Peter and Paul were fighting. Remember also our brother Martin Luther, who once said, "Here I stand. I can do no other."
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 08:43 AM
Greetings all,
I know it's late in the week, but in light of present discussions, I would REALLY recommend a visit to Nathan Nettleton's web site at:
www.laughingbird.net
Go to this week's lections, then click on "Jesus,the Way". Here is an excellent interpretation of the exclusive/inclusive issue.
Enjoy!
SueCan
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 01:01 PM
Greetings, one and all....
Thanks to everyone who posted comments here (and in the discussions of the Acts and 1 Peter lessons). You helped a lot. The 4th installment of the catechism sermon series is done and "hung" --
http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/asermons/easter4-rcl-a-2002.htm
Blessings, Eric in KS
PS -- Feeling fine! Moving a little slowly and feeling just a little bit drained and tired, but no pain. Thanks again for all your prayers. As soon as I know anything about the recipient (they tell me that will be about a month), I'll let this community know too.
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 01:31 PM
oops... its
http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/asermons/easter5-rcl-a-2002.htm
Eric
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 02:40 PM
i AM LOOKING FOR THAT WONDERFUL; OLD STORY ABOUT THE BOY WHO WAS LOST IN THE BIG CITY. hE ONLY KNEW HE LIVED IN THE SHADOW OF THE CROSS OF THE CATHEDERAL, AND IF SOMEONE COULD JUST SHOW HIM THE WAY HOME. THIS IS THE JEST OF THE STORY, IF SOMEONE HAS THE WHOLE THING AND FROM WHOM, i WOULD APPRECIATE IT. dc in la
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 02:42 PM
i AM LOOKING FOR THAT WONDERFUL; OLD STORY ABOUT THE BOY WHO WAS LOST IN THE BIG CITY. hE ONLY KNEW HE LIVED IN THE SHADOW OF THE CROSS OF THE CATHEDERAL, AND IF SOMEONE COULD JUST SHOW HIM THE WAY HOME. THIS IS THE JEST OF THE STORY, IF SOMEONE HAS THE WHOLE THING AND FROM WHOM, i WOULD APPRECIATE IT. dc in la
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 04:01 PM
Possible outline for sermon, John 14:1 I. Faith in Jesus comes in two ways A. As Gift 1. Easy, natural, just receive 2. Personal examples, scriptural examples 3. Ephe. 2:8, gift of faith B. As work, a willful decision 1. In difficult times, John 13 A. Jesus himself troubled (13:21) B. Disciples troubled 2. Christ commands faith - John 14:1 3. Other scripture/times when faith a matter of obedience. II. Of these two ways of faith,both are necessary 1. Though we prefer faith as gift, its also work 2. Whatever is troubling you now, do work of believing. 3. Only solution for troubled heart is faith.
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 10:40 PM
Fed Up in Canada
Just warning you - sticking up to Christ in the way that you do will get you banned from this page of "open thought" just like a former member was for his outragious but more tradition views did. Angry? like Jesus never though a fit
Date: April 27, 2002
Time: 10:57 PM
Thank you for the warning...
Exclusion in the name of inclusion... I know all about it. The open liberalism that has room for just about any kind of thinking has no room for conservatives.
I will say thanks to all for sharing your thoughts with me, and a bye to you all before I am banned.
A fed up preacher in Canada
Date: April 28, 2002
Time: 02:00 AM
This will probably not get read by many as the lectionary week is over.
I certainly do not entertain the banning of conservatives. My congregation is full of people with differing views to my own and we have very spirited debates upon the ignorances and negligences of the church in proclaiming the message. Or indeed on what is wrong with the church and why it is failing. This debate reigns from the types of hymns, to the theology, to the hardness of the pews, to the type of hairstyle of the lay minister, to the position of the building, to the type of bible we use, and whether we should use inclusive language or not, and so on and so on.
I knew full well, that there would be members of this site who would interpret my comments in a personal affront, and that is why I placed the disclaimer at the beginning. I do not deny my more liberal stance in certain areas of my faith, but I do respect the right of others to stand at a different position. I happen to believe that is why Jesus chose 12 disciples and not just 1. He did this to allow a diversity of thought and content into the way and method that his life was interpreted and proclaimed throughout the world. I do not believe he made twelve clones of himself.
I hope all conservatives can find a place on this site, because I certainly always seem to gain something from hearing their point of view, if only the need to rephrase my own position.
I not sure we will ever fully satisfy the debate over whether Jesus died only for; only the chosen few, Christians in general, all spiritual people, or the whole human race. The scriptures are not clear on the matter. The same debate could be said in another way; 'if we don't stand for something, then we fall for anything'.
I apologise to the whole DPS users if my language seemed too strong or volatile. I do not apologise for what I said however. I guess I wanted to state my argument in the strongest yet lovingest language I could find. Sadly printed media is not always the best for conveying emotional intent.
Regards to all
Hope you ALL have a good week.
KGB
Date: April 28, 2002
Time: 09:53 AM
We need not agree with each other. we are enriched by different points of view. yet, I want to say thank you to many of you who show an extra measure of respect and consideration for others who particupate in this sight. This is a new media available to anyone world wide. Therefore developing new social graces is part of our task. Thankfully Christian love and respect have usually set the tone here. Thanks. Manzel
Date: July 25, 2002
Time: 06:55 AM
The Only Begotten son of God is God, who is a Spirit, As A Man;
Isaiah 9;6
Date: July 25, 2002
Time: 06:55 AM
The Only Begotten son of God is God, who is a Spirit, As A Man;
Isaiah 9;6
Date: January 23, 2003
Time: 12:49 AM
This is the first time I have accessed this site - which I did by accident while looking for the words of the hymn "There is a quiet place near to the heart of God". It seems to me that Jesus offers us a place, near to the heart of God, in himself. Isn't it just wonderful to know that God really does love us enough to prepare a way for us which will lead directly to our home in Christ? Be blessed preachers of the Gospel everywhere and in preaching be true to Christ and to yourself as the one crucified in him. Rev Ann - Sydney, Australia