Last week the question was raised about the quality or lack of contributions by Pastor Will in the High Mountains. I have been a long time lurker ( reader but not contributor) on the site. I too enjoyed the give and take between liberals and conservatives that used to take place on the site, and although I didn't contribute, many times Rick spoke for me. When he was censored, and then quit in disgust, something was lost, and quite frankly I have been losing interest rapidly. I find now that I only check this site rarely, hence the reference to last week this week.
Some people view conflict as negative, and even unchristian. I firmly believe that in conflict and crisis, creativity has a chance to happen.
Just my opinion
Dave in Pa
Last week the question was raised about the quality or lack of contributions by Pastor Will in the High Mountains. I have been a long time lurker ( reader but not contributor) on the site. I too enjoyed the give and take between liberals and conservatives that used to take place on the site, and although I didn't contribute, many times Rick spoke for me. When he was censored, and then quit in disgust, something was lost, and quite frankly I have been losing interest rapidly. I find now that I only check this site rarely, hence the reference to last week this week.
Some people view conflict as negative, and even unchristian. I firmly believe that in conflict and crisis, creativity has a chance to happen.
Just my opinion
Dave in Pa
As the week begins...
I spent last Friday night in the ER and hospital over night... our eldest son had a strange EKG after a swim meet... he goes in Monday for a Stress test... I'll appreciate any prayers... his name is Ryan...
Thanks again all, you're life safers...
pulpitt in ND
For pulpitt in ND
Gracious Father, we know that in times like this we have to come to You confessing that we are powerless and in need of Your mighty hand. Bless the son of Your servant that this young man might be made well and may continue to grow and mature healthy and into Your service. Be pleased, our Lord, to make him strong and whole that Your great Name might receive even greater glory, in the Name of Christ our Lord, Amen.
JG in WI
The first verse of the Isaiah reading says, "The LORD called me before I was born, while I was in my mother's womb he named me."
This Gospel pericope is also about naming.... the Baptizer names Jesus "Lamb of God" and "Son of God", his disciples name Jesus "Rabbi", Andrew names Jesus "Messiah", and Jesus names Simon bar Jonah "Cephas" (Peter, rock).
Naming, titling, describing (which the Psalm is about -- "Here I am; in the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.") these are important activities. How and what we name, title, or describe people has a lasting impact on who they are. Names, titles, and descriptions can become, in many ways, "self-fulfilling prophecies".
Just some thoughts....
Blessings, Eric in KS
More thoughts ... these comments are from Roger Hahn's "The Voice" Bible Studies:
First, about John's disciples naming Jesus "Rabbi":
"They called Jesus, "Rabbi." John provides the translation, "teacher." But even the word "teacher" does not communicate the depth of respect in the Hebrew word Rabbi. Rabbi literally means, "My great one," in Hebrew. The Jews' respect for knowledge was so great that the teachers were the great people of their culture. There is really no higher compliment the two would-be disciples could have paid another human being than to call him, Rabbi."
Second, about Jesus's naming of Simon "Cephas":
"Cephas is Aramaic and Peter is Greek for 'rock.' As William Barclay notes, 'Jesus does not only see what a man is; He also sees what a man can become. He sees not only the actualities in a man; he also sees the possibilities.' Jesus saw Peter's potential as the rock upon which the early church would be built. The change of name was the first step in the process that brought Peter to the role of leader in the early church."
Blessings, Eric in KS
I thought this Sunday I would preach about giving our witness - an evangelism emphasis. There are two witnesses given in this scripture. The first is by John the Baptist. He testifies to what he has seen. He bears witness that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. It is this witness to his own disciples that leads at least two of them, Andrew and an unnamed disciple, to follow Jesus. Then Andrew gives his personal witness to his brother, Simon. He serves as the first evangelist, at least in our denomination. We sing the song "Pass It On" at the end of our service. I want to emphacize the importance of passing on our testimony/witness about Jesus to others. Too many people feel religion is a private matter! No, our faith is something to be shared! This is the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity. A Deacon from the Catholic Church across the street will be preaching at my church and I will be preaching at their mid-morning mass. I guess I will title things, "Our Shared Witness." In my church we have weekly communion. The trays are passed in the pews. How would people feel if we didn't pass it to them? I have known some Deacons who overlooked someone and boy do they get mad. If we don't share our witness with others aren't we doing the same thing? PH in OH
PH in OH wrote, "In my church we have weekly communion. The trays are passed in the pews."
This is how it was done in one of the churches of my childhood, a Disciples of Christ congregation. Is this your denomination, PH?
I love the fact that you and the Roman church are "pulpit swapping" -- I wish we could do something like that here...
Blessings, Eric in KS
Thanks to you all who contributed last week to the discussion regarding the "reaffirmation of baptism." A reader but infrequent contributer, you have inspired me numerous times, but this week was the greatest blessing. I pastor a small church where 80% of the congregation is age 65 and above. I used the idea of clear stones in the baptismal font and spoke directly to each participant as I looked into their eyes. So many were moved -- I think it is the first time they have been reminded how much they are loved -- that they continue to be the Beloved child of God. I thank you for the love and support your caring ministries contribute to others, for my congregation was the blessed recipient this week. I am humbled by God's work in this morning's worship. Thank you. lh in nj
I'm realtively new to this discussion group (just over the last few weeks) and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help I get from everyone's contribution to the discussions.
I need prayers this week too (and input). I currently pastor a small church with about 55 average weekly attendence. Activety (no matter how much I try) is pretty limted to Sunday Worship. We have no mid-week programs or study groups simply because no onw will participate.
I'm being called by a church that has almost 300 weely attendence and offers a much more stimulating ministry with plenty of lay involvement and plenty of things going on.
It seems a "no-brainer" I'm excited about being called by this congregation, yet the idea of leaving the little church hurts me in the stomach.
Any words of wisdom or prayers are welcomed...
unsigned for now...
To the Unsigned: Follow Your Heart - I know from experience a bigger church is not always better. But I also know some people want you to drink the glass of water that has been set before them. I will pray for you. revtinca
I'm rather drawn to a combination of Isa and Jn this week. There is something to God calling us by name, or naming or renaming us that ought to be comforting. I've been dealing with this personally, as I often feel like the task is larger than I am. The key is that OF COURSE the task is larger than I; but so is God! I also believe this to be where many in my primarily older congregation are (projection aside) ... I often hear "I can't do that," or something along those lines. While I do believe this is often an excuse to politely say, "this is not a priority for me," I do think our society tells older people that they become incapable once they stop being able to walk and think quickly (or drive after dark).
My favorite line (don't hold me to the exact quote) out of any movie, and which I quote frequently in sermons, or any leadership situation, is from "Coal Miner's Daughter," when Loretta Lynn's husband gives her the guitar. She says, "I don't know how to play this." and he says, "Well, no one knows before they learn how."
Often, others have more faith in us than we have in ourselves. I think God does, too.
Sally in GA
Dave in Pa:
I agree in general w/ your comment about conflict. I believe good argumentation is what we're trying to get at here. However, I have observed narrow-minded, high-handed theology on this site (cons. & lib.) that was left to go on too long and that turns me off; that and some ongoing lack of moderation.
Of course, this "sermon contribution" area is not the forum for this discussion either. Let's respect one another and argue in love and at the right place and time.
Mike in IN
Sally and Eric:
Good comments! I appreciate you. Just what we need here. And your TONE is so loving--ahhh!
Mike in IN
Eric in KS: Yes, I am a past for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). PH in OH
Eric in KS: Yes, I am a pastor for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). PH in OH
I'm thinking about using something of the various "titles" of Jesus in the scriptures. To speak of them and explain them a little to people might trigger a movement of their heart to know Jesus better. Just a starter after needing to prepare a funeral homily for Monday. Blessings from Old priest in Iowa
Sally in GA, Check out B D Prewer's sermon on his website for a wonderful meditation on calling. I think I may go that way myself. Sharon in Bethlehem
I think there are a lot of people who are searching for hope, stability, in this dark world. There is a lot of confusion about denominations and waht they believe. People seem to be wondering who is right, and wondering if Jesus Christ is the one, or if there is some other way to salvation. Jesus' first words in the Gospel of John are, "What are you looking for?" Jesus is the One whom God sends to deal with our most difficult proble. He is the Lamb of God who takes away our sin. I don't know of another religion that does that for us. With joy we can say, "We have found the Messiah", the One who searches us out and finds us in our need, to make us whole. Jesus remains with us, breaking into our darkness with His light. We now are looking for all who are struggling with emptiness , uncertainty, a need for stability for we have Someone to share with them.
Tom in MO
Twice in this brief passage John says, "I myself did not know him". Yet John and Jesus were cousins.
Could it be that this is not met litterally "I would not recognize him on the street" but on a deeper level, "I did not realize my cousin was the messiah"?
Also on a trip to the Holy Land our guide informed us that the town of Nazareth did not become Christian until after 300 A.D. They did not recognize him even after the crusifixion, resurection and birth of the first churches.
I have a question. Were any of the first churches in Capurnum? If not wouldn't this be strange since Capurnum was the center of Jesus ministry.
Is this part of a theme in the first chapter of John, the world knew him not. Manzel
I just read the article on MLK on this sight. The writer said that in Montgomery king was regarded as a good preacher but not a great preacher
While King was clearly a leader with a great following there is a sense in which He was not really recognized in his own time. Manzel
John acknowledges his purpose is to herald the coming of the messiah so when he says twice "I myself did not know him" it sounds like a lament. It reminds me of the article on this site on MLK where it says that kings later preaching reflected a discouragement that social justice may never come.
Yet it seems to me that even as discouraged, totally worn out and doomed that King felt, He still rose above as in his I've been to the Mountain top speach. When we as preachers find ourselves broken beyond what we could have imagined, beyond prayer and reliance on scripture, What keys can help us not give in to a synicism or harshness? Manzel
I liked the theme of naming, good observation. Manzel
Sharon in Bethlehem,would you please post the web address for B D Prewer? Thanks PB in OH
In the beginning of Jesus ministry. Jesus followers begin the relationship and begin the dialogue by calling him "Rabbi".
After the resurection Mary does not recognize Jesus at first and when she does she calls him "rabbi". It is like things were completed and Jesus has indeed proven to be the one of whom John spoke. Manzel
He asks them "what are you looking for" and they ask, Rabbi, where are you staying? ...It sounds like conversation of people that are pretty familiar. and the term Rabbi is given as an answer to Jesus question what are you looking for. "Where are you staying" indicated they were announcing they were following him before he asked them. Manzel
Just a thought on the twice said, "I myself did not know him". It is possible that the person saying this is not John the Baptist, but the author of John's Gospel present at the incident. It is possible that the author was one of the Baptizer's disciples who also baptized (The one who sent me to baptize - the Baptizer - said to me - the writer and witness of this event - the one on whom you see the Spirit descend...). It is possible that he is recording the moment while watching his teacher, John, point to the Lamb of God, Jesus - thus setting this up as a dialogue between John and his student with Jesus at the center. (Dr. James Charlesworth points this out in his book The Beloved Disciple). Just a thought - adds another perspective & stretches the traditional view.
Ross in Burbank, CA
To Manzel,
IT is only Luke who makes the assertion that Jesus and John teh Baptist were cousins. In this reading it is quite possible that John literally does not know Jesus.
Gord in ON
How are people planning on addressing the mixing of "metaphors"? i.e. "the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."
John is combining the Passover Lamb with the scapegoat from the Day of Atonement. Do you think his original hearers thought that a bit odd or understood?
Pr.del in IA
In our discipleship we are sometimes more prone to think in terms of our quest for and relation with God than we are to think in terms of God's quest for and relationship with us.
In this scripture we find the declaration of Jesus as the Lamb of God that takes a way the sin of the world and the following call to discipleship.
One of the messages I encounter in this Word is the action of God in seeking us out, in reaching out to us, in calling us to him, in relating to us even before or preceding our awareness of our quest for God, in naming us and thus knowing us deeper and before hand deeper than we know ourselves...such as in naming Peter and seeing Nathanael under the fig tree...the Covenant Tree!
I believe the "looking glass mirror" or the "pygmalion" theory pertaining to the origins of self-understanding are relevant to the act of God so knowing us even in the naming relevant to baptism and the descending of the dove. To be known by God, to be named by God, to be loved by God, gives birth to our self-knowledge or self-understanding.
Into whose eyes do we look to see mirrored the reflection of ourself? Sometimes we look into human eyes that assign us roles to play, having social positions of status or lack thereof. But the eye of Our Father Creator sees us under the Covenant Tree, even in the womb waters from which we come in birth; fashioning us for ministry to others with unique talents and potentialities that we alone possess; the love of God sees the infinite worth and dignity of our being/becoming! Beyond our sleeping while he prays with the pain of blood drops falling from his brow in Gethsemane; beyond our fear, hiding behind closed doors after his crucifixion; beyond our despair fleeing down the road to Emmaus or simply giving it all up in despair to return to fishing, he still sees us as a "rock" potential on which to build his Covenant Kingdom Triumphant Church! We may dismiss our eternal worth, dignity, and potentiality..we may evn despair.. but the Hound of Heaven Love of God will not give up on us because he has birthed us from the waters, named us, and blessed us to bless all nations to the ends of the earth. It could be that our "wound" is but the "bridge over troubled waters" which may open up the possibility of New Being/Becoming, New Creation, not only for ourselves but for others. Birth does not occur without birth pain! Calling to discipleship by Jesus who knows us deeper than we know ourselves is fitting for the following of the baptism unveiling the Lamb of God, the Suffering Servant, who takes a way the sin of the world...even mine...even mine!
Have you looked into the eyes of God lately who knows you much better than you know yourself?
(PaideiaSCO reflecting on that which follows baptism birth in the discipleship journey)
To Unsigned for now: Being United Methodist I am appointed by the system and I was once told to go to a "county seat" church and just "love my people." I am now in a larger church and there are times I wish I was at the smaller church to love the people. It is not the same here. I still love my people. Jesus calls us to do this in a somewhat unloving world. The suburban church has a hard time with this love. After three years I see some fruit. Blessings to you. Another unsigned for now.
I Like the observation made by Ross in Burbank CA. If the speaker is John the Baptist this is contrary to what we read last week in Matthew, where John the Baptist does recognize something about Jesus before the descending of the Holy Spirit. It is helpful to think that this speaker is someone else. It is often difficult in this first chapter of John to tell who the speaker is. A different observation: Here in John's Gospel it says that the Holy Spirit "remained" on Jesus. The Spirit did not return to God the father, nor to heaven, but stays with Jesus until offered to the disciples and to the church in the final chapters of John's Gospel. Thus the close association of the Spirit with Jesus ("No one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit" - I Cor. 12:3; "The Advocate, the Holy Spirit... will remind you of all that I (Jesus) have said to you". Jn 14:26) Some of us mainliners do not give the Holy Spirit enough credit, nor seek his power. Naturally, we would not focus on the Spirit, but always on Jesus, whom we can not know or believe in without the help of that one called "The Shy Member of the Trinity" by Frederick Dale Bruner and William Hordern in their book of that title (Augsburg, Minneaposis, 1984).
Manzel, when I visited the Land of the Holy One in August, our trip took us to Capernaum and besides being overwhelmed by the Synagogue and the beauty of it, we saw the remains of a House Church which was in Peter's house in Capernaum. It was a Church-in-the-round. So, to answer your question, "Were there any Churches in Capernaum?" I would say, "yes."
I am caught by Jesus' question "What are you looking for?" What are we looking for when we seek Jesus? A miracle worker? A panacea? Another stop gap in our downward spiral? Or, are we truly looking for the One who can bring us everlasting life? Are we looking for the One who has come to bring abundance and all that carries with it? What are we looking for?
I am looking for the One who brings salvation, everlasting life and a peace that passes my understanding. I am looking for the Prince of Peace. Go Tell it on the Mountain... He has come! Betty in NY
I was just struck by the similarity between Jesus's question to the disciples of John, "What are you looking for?" and his question to Pharisees and Scribes who went out to be baptized by John, "What did you go out into the wilderness to see?" All to often we look for and see what we want to, not what is really there. (One of my governing board members last night was making the case for changing the day and time of our board meetings -- in putting forth his argument he made a distinction between me [the rector, pastor] and "people who work". What do you suppose he comes to church to "see"? Apparently not someone who works.)
Blessings, Eric in KS
Ross, thanks for the new perspective. I know most top biblical scholars of old have traditionall thought John was written at least after 90 AD and many thought well after 120 AD. I was wondering if there was any change in this thought. Manzel
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~nigel/doc/200102.htm will take you to B D Prewer's site Deke in Texas - Pace e Bene
To the one who called the Holy Spirit the shy member of the Trinity- I just heard today a Church History professor refer to H.S. as "the most self-effacing member of the Trinity". It seems you can never clearly see the H.S., he said, because every time you try to look, the H.S. is pointing back at Jesus saying,"Look at him. Isn't he terrific? Did you hear what he said? Wasn't that great?"
Makes me think. Last week we heard God the Father say,"This is MY son, in whom I am well pleased." The father sees Jesus as a chip off the old block. "My son, I'M pleased." The Holy Spirit sounds more like a mother, no thought of self, just the Son. Kind of like Mary in Cana wedding,"Listen to my boy. Do whatever he tells you." If you want a feminine face/voice for God, the Holy Spirit may be the one you can't quite see/hear. Just a thought. tom in TN(USA)
Dr. Orr (can't remember his first name) of Pittsburgh Theological Seminary had a theory that John was written before the other gospels. He was going to write a book about this, but to my knowledge, never did.
He said that the details in John, the charisma in John, could come only from one who had had a recent encounter with the Messiah. For instance, the two disciples stayed with Jesus until 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
Also, note the statement by Andrew to Peter "We have found the Messiah." Orr said a statement like that could be made that quickly only by one who had encountered the living God.
The other gospels are more of a remembrance, trying to get the facts down, but some of the joy, the charisma, the immediacy (sp?) is gone.
Orr knew this was not a popular theory, that most think the theological development is too sophisticated. But what if it isn't? What if this is an "eyewitness" account?
It's been 25 years since I took Greek. Can anyone translate the antecedent to "him" in "I myself did not know him"? Could "him" refer to the Holy Spirit?
I like what Preaching the Revised Common Lectionary says about the progression of discipleship. Each person leads someone else to Christ. In the end it is their encounter with Jesus that convicts them of who he is and turns them to him in faith.
I have no idea where I'm going with all this, but at least I'm thinking earlier in the week. . . .
RevJan
RevJan asked,"It's been 25 years since I took Greek. Can anyone translate the antecedent to "him" in "I myself did not know him"? Could "him" fer to the Holy Spirit?"
Jan, I don't think so.... if I recall correctly, "pneuma" in Greek is neutre. "Ruach" in Hebrew is feminine. So I don't see in either language how "him" could refer to the H.S.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Thank you all of you for your prayers for my son... he came through his Stress Test with flying colors yesterday morning. His blood pressure was 80/55 before it started... resting pulse of 60 BPM... got his heart up to 204 beats a minute... and has a clean bill of health for now...
Just watched "THE CHAIR" on ABC... his 204 after excercising didn't look bad at all! ;?) The Dr. said it had been a long time since he saw a heart rate of above 200 during a stress test of an 18 year old.
Thanks again for all the prayers,
pulpitt in ND
Regarding searching and finding...
Here's a true story...
My daughter was maybe 2 or 3 at the most... I came into the kitchen when she was up on a stool by our breakfast counter... underneath the counter were drawers, including our "JUNK" drawer (Everyone has one right?) Anyway, I came into the kitchen in a hurry, and I opened the drawer, shuffling through it, making noise along the way... when my daughter asked, "Daddy, what cha findin'?"... I said to her, "RASAPHRASA #($@#()%$#@!^&) I'm not FINDING ANYthing, I'm looking for ________. I don't even remember what I was looking for.
When I shared that with our TEXT study group this morning... one gal commented, yes, sometimes we hunt for things... and don't find them, even though they're right under our noses... "Glasses on our heads, keys in our hands..." It's all on what you're looking for.... sometimes we find things we AREN'T looking for... or else we find things we least expect to find..."Oh, THAT'S where that was!"...
still lookin' here...
;?)
pulpitt in ND
Regarding searching and finding...
Here's a true story...
My daughter was maybe 2 or 3 at the most... I came into the kitchen when she was up on a stool by our breakfast counter munching on some saltine crackers... underneath the counter were drawers, including our "JUNK" drawer on the far left end from her... (Everyone has one right?) Anyway, I came into the kitchen in a hurry, and I opened the drawer, shuffling through it, making noise along the way... when my daughter asked, "Daddy, what cha findin'?"... I said to her, "RASAPHRASA #($@#()%$#@!^&) I'm not FINDING ANYthing, I'm looking for ________. I don't even remember what I was looking for.
When I shared that with our TEXT study group this morning... one gal commented, yes, sometimes we hunt for things... and don't find them, even though they're right under our noses... "Glasses on our heads, keys in our hands..." It's all on what you're looking for.... sometimes we find things we AREN'T looking for... or else we find things we least expect to find..."Oh, THAT'S where that was!"...
still lookin' here...
;?)
pulpitt in ND
pulpitt in ND
To the Unsigned
God speaks by the Holy Spirit through the Bible, prayer, the church, and circumstances to reveal Himself, His purposes, and His ways.
God is more ready to speak to us than we are ready to hear Him.
Have no will of your own. Ask the Father for His will. Ask Him where he is and join Him there. If you desire His will only, He will guide you so clearly you will have no questions.
I bid you peace - JG in WI
To unsigned Having served several small churches, I have found that the people you are serving understand going to a larger church. My last move was more a lateral one and it really hurt the congregation I was serving at the time. Mehrke in SD
ND: so glad your son is okay. Thanks for the stories on what are you looking for . like Sally, this has been what has been catching my attention. Your story made me think of a recent breakfast I had with several "old" friends from high school we all began to talk about how much we lose things now. I wonder since Andrew has been following John if Jesus wants him to clarify what or who he really wants to follow.
I'm also still trying to discover how to pull all this in with Christian unity. I did better with that last week. And my attempt at "remember your baptism" wasn't so great. If anyone wants to email me with how they did it, i would appreciate it. My email is: Rachesw@aol.com. I too am Disciple of Christ, so we havea baptistry pool and not a fount. Thanks. I'd like to be more prepared next year. (I always say that.)
Blessings to you all. My prayers are with you unsigned.
Rachel
Unsigned, If you would like to, feel free to e-mail me at "revrdmark@aol.com". I have been at a "new" church for about a year after leaving a situation very similar to yours. I'd love to offer some insights I learned in the process if you would like to hear but don't want to use up space in this forum.
Mark in SW Washington
I'm intrigued by the "naming" discussion. I Like the idea that behind the name is the reality of God's potential in us all. A thick headed common man is seen as a "rock". The cousin you heard all those weird stories about from your mom, Is the "lamb of God who takes away sin". In other passages a group of fisherman (not even good fishermen - cleaning EMPTY nets) is not a group of loosers but a band of people who follow Christ and litterally change the world by God's spirit. I try to stay away from "shoulds" or "Ought to.." in my preaching cause those phrases have never been particularly motivational for me personally, but the "coulds" seem to generate visions and dreams, especially when the Spirit leads us to the vision of what we could be. Seems the congregation I serve has for years missed the coulds, and only saw their given name in limited resources, old buildings, those damn (pardon my french) kids or what ever the limit may be. Seems we need to see the "coulds" that the names in this passage imply. Just thinking outloud. That almost made sense. We'll see if it has any form.
Mark in SW Washington
Like Sally in GA, I'm thinking of a crossover from Isaiah to John this week. I am drawn to Isaiah's image of the polished arrow; a supreme weapon (bear with me, fellow pacifists, I'm going somewhere with this!) hidden in the quiver until the right time. It brings to mind "The Natural" (which I may have to check out again, it's been a while) and the specially crafted bat. Or "Wonderbatt" for any fellow fans of The Simpsons out there ("a lucky bat?! And I've got an enchanted jock strap!")
But seriously, Simon, named "Peter," or "Rock" by the Lord, was destined to crumble under adversity...and yet when the right moment came, on Pentecost, Peter was drawn from the quiver and the arrow of the Gospel was shot directly into the hearts of 3,000.
I humbly ask you to include me with "unsigned" in your prayers. My Pastor-Parish Relations Committee has notified the District Superintendant that they what to make a change in pastoral appointment. Kinda hangin' in the balance here...
JG in WI, I can tell you have been an "Experiencing God" student - right out of the Henry Blackaby handbook! That study helped change my life and opened me to my call to ministsry.
PH in OH: I too am considering an evangelistic theme from John, and I appreciate your comments. YOu might want to consider tying it to the Psalm 40 lesson. When the psalmist realizes the gravity of what God has done/is doing/will do, he can't help but share the "glad news". Just listen to him/her:
JG in WI, I can tell you have been an "Experiencing God" student - right out of the Henry Blackaby handbook! That study helped change my life and opened me to my call to ministsry.
PH in OH: I too am considering an evangelistic theme from John, and I appreciate your comments. YOu might want to consider tying it to the Psalm 40 lesson. When the psalmist realizes the gravity of what God has done/is doing/will do, he can't help but share the "glad news". Just listen to him/her:
JG in WI, I can tell you have been an "Experiencing God" student - right out of the Henry Blackaby handbook! That study helped change my life and opened me to my call to ministsry.
PH in OH: I too am considering an evangelistic theme from John, and I appreciate your comments. YOu might want to consider tying it to the Psalm 40 lesson. When the psalmist realizes the gravity of what God has done/is doing/will do, he can't help but share the "glad news". Just listen to him/her:
Sorry for that, but just listen to the psalmist: -Here I am... -I delight to do your will -Your law is within my heart... -I have told the glad news...
Sorry for that, but just listen to the psalmist: -Here I am... -I delight to do your will -Your law is within my heart... -I have told the glad news...
Sorry for that, but just listen to the psalmist: -Here I am... -I delight to do your will -Your law is within my heart... -I have told the glad news...
Sorry for that, but just listen to the psalmist: -Here I am... -I delight to do your will -Your law is within my heart... -I have told the glad news...
Sorry for that, but just listen to the psalmist: -Here I am... -I delight to do your will -Your law is within my heart... -I have told the glad news... -I have not restrained my lips... -I have not hidden your saving help within my heart -I have spoken of your faithfulness/salvation... -I have not concealed your love/faithfulness...
How many of us/our people can say those words convincingly with the psalmist. Too often we restrain our lips, or hide God's grace within our heart, or conceal his love inside of us. How can we! The Good News is too wonderful for me, I cannot bear it!
We need to rededicate ourselves to telling/speaking the Good News.
Kirt in OK
I don't know why all the mulltiple posts happened. Sorry!
Kirt in OK
Thanks Mark for your idea of the name of Peter and its negative connotations. When I think about Simon being given the name Peter I always see it as a compliment from Jesus - one who will be firm in faith, upon this rock I will build this church. But a rock can also be a thick, unthinking, stupid type. It seems as though Peter lived up to both meanings of rock - lifting his sword to defend Jesus in the garden, denying Jesus. Last week we talked about being named "child of God" in Baptism. In a good sense "child" denotes belonging, but I'm wondering in what sense "child" is bad - when we act childish, when we let our emotions carry us away, when the little slings and arrows of the playground become such a big thing and reduce us to tears. In what sense our we more like this kind of child then what God hoped for us when he called us in Baptism. Just some initial thoughts. Lisa in IL
My PPR told my DS that they would consider my staying in my small church only if I got "psychological help." They don't like feeling guilty when I preach from the prophets. I will probably take a leave of absence to attend to my family. Thank God I had made that decision before PPR met.
Lots of changes ahead for lots of us. Some will be painful, some will be liberating. Yet, Jesus has called us to ministry, to be his disciples in a world of PPR's and stubborn, dense congregations. Jesus has called us to ministry in a world of congregations that love and care and do mission. Sometimes we serve one, sometimes we serve the other. Whatever our current ministry, we must stay focused on the One we serve.
Thanks to all of you for your great posts. I really appreciate the ideas last week on renewal of Baptism with dipping your hand into the water and telling the person behind you that they are a blessed child of God. I used that and the suggestion about the flat marbles. We had a very powerful service.
I would like to find the words and music for a song titled "I Will Change Your Name." I have sung it at some retreats but I don't have the music. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks, CL
Holy Spirit in the Greek is feminine and would be referred to as "her." I had to take a course on the trinity back in seminary and our professor was a picture buff from France. In many places in the world of art, the Holy Spirit is pictured as a woman. PH in OH
PH in OH -- I looked "pneuma" up in Strong's NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon. It indicates that "spirit" in Greek, i.e., "pneuma" is a neuter noun. The Hebrew equivalent, "ruach", is feminine.
Blessings, Eric in KS
Dear CL, the words to "I will change your name" are: "I will change your name/ you shall no longer be called/ Wounded, Outcast, Lonely or Afraid./ I will change your name/ your new name shall be/ Confidence, Joyfulness, Overcoming One/ Faithfulness, Friend of God, One Who seeks my face." I just happened to be looking for the words and saw you wanted them too, but, alas, haven't found the music yet and I NEED IT TOO. Talking about searching, seeking and finding ... sheesh! RevRake in Michigan
I greatly appreciate the comments on the texts this week. After reading your comments and the lectionary, I must admit that I am drawn to the "name" issue and specifically Andrew.
Everyone in the text seems to get different names or add-ons: John becomes John the Baptist, Jesus is rabbi, Lamb of God, and Son of God, and Simon becomes Peter; but Andrew stays just Andrew. Yet Andrew is the one that points the way to Jesus. How many of us want to be something/someone else - with a different name, different title, different respect? We never seem satisfied with who/whose we are. But God calls us to be his children and is always drawing us into a deeper relationship with him. Most of the people in our pews are "Andrews" and are important to the mission of God's kingdom. We are all called in our mother's wombs by God - for God. What better name can we have! Tworevs in SC
Just a head up for next week. since the disciples are fisherpersons. I am using fishnets in the sanctuary. I found them at a party store pretty cheep! nancy-Wi
An option to sing "I will change your name" is to use it as a reading with a soft music background. I am doing it with a song called: "Ihave Called you by Name" Hope publishing company, words and music by Daniel Charles Damon. I sang it at UM Clergywomen Consultation in San Diego last week. Words are: I have called you by your name, your are mine, I have gifted you and ask you now to shine. I will not abandon you; all my promises are true. Your are gifted, called and chosen: your are mine.
I will help you learn my name as you go; Read it written in my people, help them grow. Poour the water in my mane, speak the word your soul can claim, Offer Jesus'body given long ago.
I know you will need my touch as you go: Feel it pulsing in creations's ebb and flow. Like the woman reaching out, choosing faith in spite of doubt, Hold the hem of Jesus' robe and then, let it go.
I have given you a name, it is mine; I have given you my Spirit as a sign. With my wonder in your soul, make my wounded children whole; Go and tell my precious people they are mine.
copywright 1998.
I have an email into hope looking for the music, but it would be too late to get it in time for this week.
Next week in "Faith We Sing" there is song 2101 called Two Fishermen that fits scripture. Just a head up. peace, Nancy-Wi
Good Day, eh. Thanks for the good thoughts once again. STill not sure where I am going with it all. A quote that I encountered may be helpful to some (all/none)? It is from Nina Herrmann's book, Go Out in Joy. She says, someone defines ministry as one person's attempts to give God's answers to man's questions". I am leanig toward dealing with the question What are you looking for? and how each of us brings something unique as supplying the answer. I also ask for your prayers for my daughter (and me?) Deke of the North
I appreciate all the contributions this week. I find myself looking at the three statements by Jesus: "what do you seek" "come and see" and "Simon you are the rock" It seems that it might be a progression in the journey - as we reflect, follow and change - or as he questions, invites, and transforms. it is a rich passage MGC
I, too used the dipping of hands in the water, telling the next person, "You are a beloved child of God." with the "solid drops of water." It was indeed very powerful. Thank you so much. Max in NC
Unsigned...
I just moved from a 680 member church to a 280 member church. I went through the "That's not a promotion, is it?" from friends and colleagues... still, I wouldn't go back to the larger church... I took a pay cut to come here... but I GAINED much! Family time is more available... not an every night meeting anymore...
I would "Follow your heart" as others have suggested... I often cannot believe I get paid for the job I do. "If you enjoy what you do, you never have to work a day in your life!" Works for me...
pulpitt in ND
Eric, thanks for the language translation. With a full-time job and family, I don't have a lot of time for exegesis! (And I can't even spell it anymore!)
I realized I was using the PRCL from Year B! in my earlier comments. I believe, however, they are appropriate for this week and next as we look to the calling of the fishermen:
"Following the testimony of John the Baptist that Jesus (1:29, 36) is the Lamb of God, we learn that two of John's disciples became followers of Jesus (1:37). In turn, one of the two, Andrew, called his brother, Simon Peter (1:40-42). Our lesson continues the story of the calling of the disciples, first, by recalling Jesus' calling of Philip and, then, by recounting Philip's recruiting of Nathanael which leads to an exchange between Jesus and Nathanael.
It is instructive to compare the call of the disciples in the Fourth Gospel with the parallel accounts in the Synoptic Gospels, for there are noticeable differences concerning where, whom, how, and in what order the disciples were called. It seems clear, however, and historical that the first disciples were followers of John the Baptist prior to becoming Jesus' companions, and it seems likely that the Fourth Gospel fills these scenes with far more theology than is to be associated with bare historical remembrance.
The passage "moves" through narrative sequential development. Jesus calls Philip. Philip calls Nathanael. Nathanael expresses reservations, but when he encounters Jesus he changes his mind and expresses confidence in Jesus. Finally, Jesus makes a statement that appears to be a prophetic pronouncement. A sermon might deal with similar themes that develop progressively: We are moved to faith by a personal encounter with Jesus Christ; others learn of Jesus through our testimony; the reservations of others to our testimony are answered by Jesus himself; ultimately it is Jesus Christ who brings others to faith. The movement to faith is but the beginning of fuller perceptions of God's power at work through Jesus Christ."
I am titling this week's sermon "Encounter with Christ." How does an encounter with Christ change us?
What amazes me is that John, Andrew and presumably the other disciple, all instantly recognized the charisima in Christ. Andrew immediately calls him the Messiah - not after the resurrection, not after he walks on water, not after he heals, but as soon as he meets him, Andrew recognizes Jesus as the Messiah.
I think we need to be careful, especially next week, when we talk about the "simple fishermen." I don't think they were so simple. They were business men, wealthy enough to have their own boats and intelligent enough to be able to command a crew. I've heard excuses for their immediate attraction to Jesus that range all the way from "Jesus had already been preaching in the region" (the text doesn't say that, as a matter of fact this week's text says 'the next day'); to "well they didn't have as much to give up as we do". Poppycock. They had homes, families, businesses, friends. Maybe they didn't have cars and bars and technology and dope and sports, but they had the important things in life.
Yet something about Jesus made them willing to leave all that and follow him. Then after the resurrection, they were willing to give up their lives fo him! Their encounter with Jesus changed them forever.
Another song that works well this week or next is "The Summons." Found in the UMC's "The Faith We Sing" at #2130. Words by John Bell, tune trad. Scottish. Words to first verse are:
Will you come and follow me if I but call your name? Will you go where you don't know and never be the same? Will you let my love be shown, will you let my name be known, will you let my life be grown in you and you in me?
Any resources on "Encountering Christ" are welcome.
RevJan
Whomever mentioned my involvement with Experiencing God, yes, I'm currently going through it my fourth time. The third time, I got my call to ministry too ... about 4 years ago (and I'm 46).
I can see it relating well to this passage. Before Andrew (and the other) could begin ministry, they spent time with Jesus. Again, everything we do in ministry is in the relationship. There is no Christianity without relationship to God.
The two asked Jesus, "Where are you staying?" For the Jews, there was a lot of meaning in where someone was "from." Jesus, however, was not content with sharing that "information." He wanted relationship. "Come and see." Don't judge by what you see in our stratified society. Come, know me, see for yourself.
JG in WI
Pray tell, JG, what is "Experiencing God" -- send me info at rector@stfrancis-ks.org
Thanks and blessings, Eric in KS
Rev Rake and others looking for the words and music for "I Will Change Your Name" I found it in the "Renew" hymnal, songs &hymns for blended worship, Hope Publishing, Carol Stream, Ill, 1997. If I can be of further asssistance email me at mtnwoman60@aol.com I hope that this is helpful. CL
Thanks for all the input and especially the songs. Could you tell me who wrote the "I will Change your name" song? I am leaning toward a relationship theme for this week. "What are you looking for?" We are all looking for something in life. Most look for things to satisfy their immediate needs. The feel good quick fix. Money, looks, sex, drugs, alcohol, ect... When we finally relize that Jesus is the way, truth, and the life for us then we can claim "We have found the Messiah" and we are changed, inside and out. Then we move into the name thing that this passage talks about. Was lost but now found, Was Peter but now the Rock, ect... Also when John said, "I myself did not know him" could he have meant I did not know him as the Messiah until now, when I saw the Spirit of God rest on Him. Thanks to all and God Bless! Harrell in Texas
To those enquiring about the "I will change" song, I found it in a book called 'Songs of Fellowship vol 1', which is very widely used in the UK, but I'm not sure whether it is available in the US.
The song is by D J Butler.
Shalom,
-- Paul Weary Croydon, UK http://members.tripod.co.uk/ccma
Manzel, There's a wonderful web site on Capharnaum (Capernaum) at http://198.62.75.1/www1/ofm/sites/TScpmain.html As the site will tell you, there is a great deal of evidence that Jesus lived in Peter's house and that it became first a house church, then later a byzantine octagonal church. Very interesting because the synagogue was very close in location. Christians and Jews learned to live together in Capernaum. Now there is a futuristic space ship looking church floating on top of it.
Larry cny
I want to say thank you to everyone for the richness of comments re: the Baptism of Jesus for last Sunday. Because we had a request for an infant baptism for this Sunday, we agreed and so I swapped readings for the two Sundays. Your comments will be a big help as in our Bible Study this past Wednesday, we also spent time talking about the question of why Jesus was baptized at all and what the fullness of righteousness means. A good study and a good direction to go in celebrating all our baptisms as we welcome this new life into our midst in the Christian Church. For this week, I worked with the challenge of what it means when Jesus tells those first disciples and thus us, "Come and see." I soloed the children's hymn "We would see Jesus" as a point from which we start but still leaves us with the question of how we see Jesus right now in today's world. When they ask, "Where are you staying?" are they also asking, "Where are you working in the world?" Yes, Jesus, what are you doing in the world, and Jesus still responds, "Come and see." If you have ccess to the Logos production, "Pulpit Resource", William H. Willimon gives a couple of great stories that reflect the answer to this very question. Have a good Sunday everyone. Rev. Tim, South Central Ontario, Canada
larry, thanks thats great. Manzel
RevJan, thanks for the hymn suggestion. Nancy-Wi
Don't forget Lord, You Have Come to the Lakeshore in the ol' regular UM Hymnal. While smiling, he is calling my name. (Sing it again!) kbc in sc
Don't forget Lord, You Have Come to the Lakeshore in the ol' regular UM Hymnal. While smiling, he is calling my name. (Sing it again!) kbc in sc
Many of the comments have discussed the issue of naming. There is an enormous history involved here with Jacob and Abram and again the name change marks a change in one's relationship with God.
I am more struck by the action of Andrew returning for his brother Simon. There is some exegetical issue about when he went to get him (immediately [RSV] or the next morning). I like to think that it was after spending some time with Jesus that Andrew realized what was going on. Following the realization, Andrew knew that his relationship with Christ could not be compete without sharing it. Thus he went to get his brother.
As I move with this train of thought I am struck that God sent Jesus (became incarnate) to bring us into relationship with God. Jesus turned back to the questioning disciples to bring them into closer relationship. Finally Andrew seeks out Peter to expand the relationship with other humans. What then does this say about our response to our relationship with God? Peter becomes a major player in Jesus' ministry and in the early church, but if it want for Andrew's response to the relationship with Christ none of it would have happened.
It is my prayer that these thoughts stimulate others through the Spirit.
DL in WV
Thanks once again all for all your contributions... what would I do without you?
Preach shorter, that's for sure!
You almost give me too much each week! It's hard to know what to "cut out"
You have come to the lakeshore, is right up there for my favorite hymn... kind of has that "Flipper" theme song in the middle of it too... ;?) While smiling, have spoken my name..."They call him flipper, flipper..."
DL in WV,
I liked your commments... "I am more struck by the action of Andrew returning for his brother Simon. There is some exegetical issue about when he went to get him (immediately [RSV] or the next morning). I like to think that it was after spending some time with Jesus that Andrew realized what was going on. Following the realization, Andrew knew that his relationship with Christ could not be compete without sharing it. Thus he went to get his brother."
I'm wondering too that it might just be that he is so moved by Jesus's words, he's afraid "retelling the story(ies)" just won't be the same as "being there"... We've all tried to recreate those "KOG Moments" that's what preacher's do each and every Sunday... Sometimes it works, and sometimes it don't! :?)
I'd rather people experience God first hand than through... someone else... who knows, God might even use us... to tell the story. God with skin on...
Still, it seems more than a "had to be there" kind of introduction.
My sermon is titled... "Putting a Face to the Name..."
Blessings,
pulpitt in ND or http://faithumcfargo.com
FRIENDS I AM SHARING THE WITNESS OF JOHN THE BAPTIST BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD AND ANDREW WHO SAYS I HAVE FOUND THE MESSIAH. WHO LED YOU TO PERSONALLY KNOW THE FAITH?? WE ARE CELEBRATING COMMUNION BY INTINCTION. IF YOU HAVE ANY HISTORIAL INFO ON THIS PLEASE EMAIL ME. THANKS BISHOPJRS46@aol.com
kbc in sc - You are absolutely right about "Lakeshore." I'd sing it every week if my folks didn't get tired of it. But I like "The Summons," too which we will sing as an anthem because we don't have pew copies for "Faith We Sing" yet. So, my folks will get both songs next week when the scripture is about Jesus calling the disciples by the lakeshore. I had real difficulty staying away from that topic this week!
RevJan
Much has been written in recent weeks about how the LIBS AND THE CONSERVS seem to FIGHT with each other too much on this site... perhaps that's true... I'm not threatened by that, do I like to see it? Why not? A little good discussion never hurt anyone...
I've had persons leave the church because I was too LIBERAL... for them...
I'm sure LIBERALS have left churches too... still, my point is this... why do we all have to agree on theology...
We're ALL created in God's image right? So, if I interpret the scripture different than you, am I a bad person... certainly not... any more than you're a bad person because I disagree with yours...
It takes all of us interpreting the scripture... DAY BY DAY... to bring about God's gift to the world. You might reach someone I will not, and I may reach someone YOU may not. Together we can make it a better world, a larger world of FAITH.
God uses us all and shares that gift to the world. The gift of peace and loving our neighbors as God loves us...
Most of you may have seen this quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr... it seems rather timely... give the situation in the world today.... It is excerpted from "Loving Your Enemies", a sermon delivered on 17 November 1957 at Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Ala.
ML King Jr. said... of conflict...
"I think the first reason that we should love our enemies, and I think this is at the very center of Jesus? thinking, is this: that hate for hate only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. If I hit you and you hit me and I hit you back and you hit me back and go on, you see, that goes on ad infinitum. It just never ends. Somewhere somebody must have a little sense, and that?s the strong person. The strong person is the person who can cut off the chain of hate, the chain of evil. And that is the tragedy of hate, that it doesn?t cut it off. It only intensifies the existence of hate and evil in the universe. Somebody must have religion enough and morality enough to cut it off, and inject within the very structure of the universe that strong and powerful element of love."
Blessings,
pulpitt in ND