I am the way, the truth, and the life ...
We may interpret this narrowly, and assume that it is only through the Christian faith that one is brought to eternal life; or we may interpret, as Paul vanBuren does, that Christ is the Torah for the Gentile world, it is through Him that the Gentile world is brought to the God of Israel. This openness represents the nature of the New Testament - and suggests that we are called to see Christ as the bridge, as the gate ... and not the wall that prevents others, who live in the throes of darkness, to be left out of saving grace.
tom in ga
Tom in GA. The rest of that verse you partially quoted does clearly say " . . . no one comes to the Father except 'through' me." It is very tough to get universal salvation from this passage. Is that what you are trying to do, or am I misunderstanding you? Yes, we go "through" a gate, and Jesus does say "through," but I do not see where that means everyone will walk through that gate, or even desires or chooses to walk through it. Speaking of "interpreting this narrowly" and gates, how do you treat Matt 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."(NIV) revup
Tom in Ga,
It is not this passage, when literally read, that is the wall that prevents others from grasping at God's grace. It is attempting to read into it what it does not say, as to appease the pluralists and the multi-culturalists who want to water down any semblance of Christian truth, that builds that wall. The wall is built, as it always has been, by our unwillingness to submit and obey.
It is this wall that leads to evil in our school hallways and most importantly, our hearts.
If we cannot preach this passage without wincing, or worrying about what the multi-culturalists, the New Agers, the ecumenical-ists hell-bent on unity at the expense of truth might say, then maybe, just maybe, we're not ready to preach at all.
It's time, for the pulpits and the pews of every Christian church, to unashamedly stand for the gospel and the transforming power of God's Holy Spirit, a power that can conquer the world for Jesus Christ. A power that requires submission and obedience. Are we up to the task? The world awaits our submission, Christ awaits our obedience.
Where are we, Church?
Rick in Va
The great mystery of the "I-AM", called by the wordless word YHWH, transcends the boundaries of religion, if we define religion as humanities "quest for God". This revelation unveils the God, like the "Hound of Heaven", who is in quest of humanity while humanity is in that state of sin which blinds one to the Sacred Presence. We are blinded and alienated from the One to whom we eternally belong because we believe the darkness of death and despair are the victors. Although "helpless", (sometimes because we in our particular religious persuation think we have god all boxed up which makes us that much more blind-in-darkness), we fancy our selves as having powers, strength, saving faith, etc., which in fact we do not have. Even when Jesus is seeking out his disciples in their pain-yet-to-be, because of the coming event of death on Calvary, Thomas responds "Lord, we don't know where you are going! How can we know the way?" God does not stop at the edge of our blindness, deafness, helplessness, because we have surrendered to the belief that death is the victor. The unbounding, universal, absolute, eternal Love of God stills seeks us out. What is so great in mystery is that he prepares a room for Thomas, and me, even while we are still in denial of that ultimate death on Calvary's cross and we are saying to Jesus we do not know where you are going-(IN spite of the fact he has just offered comfort in "I go to prepare a room for you"! Our fear of death, our grief, our evaporated hopeless hope, blind us to where Jesus is going as well as blind us to the sacred space/room/place he goes to prepare for us. Yet in-spite-of- our blindness, "Let not your heart be troubled" reveals the Good Shepherd who seeks out the lost sheep. Yes, his unbounding love is universal and nothing will be able to overcome the victory of the Cross and the Hound of Heaven whose Sacred Presence forever seeks us out..."For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be ab;e to separate us frrom the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Grace is there before hand when we are most helplessly a victim of sin, when we are in denial, when we "fancy ourself in perfect health", when we think most surely we have god all boxed up in the "perfect religion", belief system, theology, etc.,! Grace is there during and for the "awakening", the spiritual baptism, the salvation experience. Grace is there futuristically, after the experiences of yesterday "pressing" us on in the sacred process of growth in grace-"Are you going on to perfection?-Is sanctification as sure a reality for your future as justification by faith was for your past religious experience?" The heritage of Wesley and Methodism has so much "diversity" and "room" within it theologically precisely because it is more focused on the processes of God's relation with us and our relationship with God. The dynamics and reciprocality of this relational paradox is at least a part of the scenario in John 14 and, as stated previously, the essence of Methodism's "connectional universality", embracing even a "religionless-transcendent religion". PaideiaSco in LA
To the statemnent, "The great mystery of the 'I-AM', called by the wordless word YHWH, transcends the boundaries of religion." I would respond Jesus came to end the mystery, He Gave YHWH a name, "Father," and claimed to end the mystery. With today's passage, Jesus did claim to have God "all boxed in." He said,"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." How much more could one "box in" God? He did, when Jesus made it worse,in "boxing in" God, He clainmed to be One with God. "Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." Yes, I am afraid Jesus "boxed in" God and we need to either believe what Jesus said or brand Him a fraud and a heretic. This same Good Shepherd said He will "cast some goats into the outer darkness." Universal salvation, eh?
14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.
To Paideia Sco in LA
In plain English, what point do you want to make?
Let us not be set against each other, while darkness covers the world, while evil has its fill of humanity!
I attended this last week an ecumenical Christian conference, Honolulu '99, with some 2,000 faithful lay and clergy from across the nation. What a phenomenal experience! Still, one of the speakers had just returned fom Albania, where his congregation planted a church about 4 years ago. He told us he saw and heard of unspeakable atrocities. One is the practice of stopping pregnant women at the border, and not allowing them to leave. Rather, their pregnant bellies are split open, and the fetus pulled from their bodies. I do not know the extent of this action, but the report of this horror made many ill. While such evil reigns, let us be about removing the darkness, I pray.
Otherwise, I have gotten to the point where if God wanted us to know exactly who gets in, he'd give us neat little tickets, or maybe e-mail. Give it up for Jesus, and perhaps the kingdom will come, and we won't have to worry about removing the specks from each other's eyes!
HW in HI
Thanks to HW in HI. I will surely not be the one to determine who is a goat and who is a sheep! Unless I am mistaken, God made a covenant with all of humankind right after the flood. Let us not suggest that God can abrogate His/Her word. Grace, to some of us, is without pre-condition; ie previenient. When we realize this, we undergo repentence and learn to see things as Jesus suggested, from the point of view of citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven. It is this willingness to receive God's unconditional love that is the "narrow way" of Christ, because few are willing to acknowledge the universal brotherhood and sisterhood of all people. Jesus did not ultimately send away the Syrio-phoenician woman who wanted him to heal her child. His willingness to LEARN to be inclusive is an example of his truth, his life and his way. I hope that this discussion does not polarize us all too much, because I will need your many insights and (hopefully) stories and illustrations. I support Tom in Ga in the conviction that this text ought not to be used to restrict or to make small the love of God. Case in point, Littleton...
Rene in Bluff Point.
P.S. Rick in Va, I will not wince when I preach this passage, nor am I a new-ager, or even a multi-culturalist. I am Christian preacher.
In what ever language, thought, images, personal constructs that flow out of my heart and mind, however limited, I am attempting to witness the difference between "our grasping god" and God's grasping us"! My grasp of God as expressed in "thought, word, and deed", I do not believe, ought to be "universalized" in such a way as to impose my belief system on all others, or for that matter to freeze me (or others) at that point of view forever, thus preventing my future growth in grace, and in faith development. In God's relation with me, as revealed in the Word made flesh (Jesus the Christ), there is an all inclusive, universal , free, grace-filled love that "transforms" and "transcends" and calls one to yet higher stages of faith development and/or spiritual growth. The conceptual, i.e., "boxed-in god" within our theological systems, is secondary to the phenomenological/existential/emotive processes comprising the "on-going-ness" of our living life. The sacred space, or "room prepared for us", critical to John 14, the processes of the "way, the truth, and the life", open up to us a love, a relation, a divine intervention, from God to us, which transcends our limitations which we sometimes impose not only on ourselves and others but upon the reality of God (god-boxed-in). Simply stated God's mystical grace and love is "with" us before, during, and after (past, present, and future) all conception and experience and is thus unbounding, unconditional, and universal. PaideiaSCO, perhaps still in a strange land speaking a strange language but "trying" and asking for forgivrnrss where I perhaps fail not only to communicate but also to enter communion.
Rick in Va,
I'm not preaching this week, as I'm beginning two weeks of vacation. However, I need to say that my first glance at the discussion is discouraging. We've discussed "labels" many times on this site, and (I thought) had agreed that they are unnecessary and often hurtful, not to mention inaccurate. Your apparent contempt for "multi-culturalists" is painful to see. What or who is a multiculturalist anyway? If you're describing folks who see the beauty and wonder of God's creation in ALL people, then by all means include me.
Frankly Rick, I'm confused by your apparent belief that any Christian preacher worth her/his salt has to declare non-Christian religious practices as something evil. Jesus wasn't into exclusive behaviour, so why do encourage us to be as we continue our discipleships?
As for this week's text, I've used it at a LOT of funerals. Even folks who are only loosely connected with the church and hear the words of JOhn 14 for the first time are immensely comforted by Jesus' words to his friends. This is a perfect Easter passage, full of hope.
Blessings, SueCan
SueCan: Have a GREAT vacation!
Rick: Help me, here. "Multi-culturalists" like that heretic Peter who baptized unclean Gentiles like Cornelius and his household? (Acts 10) Or maybe those pluralists the Hebrew Scriptures rail against in the Book of Ruth?
How about this: "[In my opinion] it is not this passage, when [faithfully] read, that is the wall that prevents others from grasping at God's grace. It is attempting to read into it what [my experience tells me is normative and excluding any other interpretation] to appease the [oppressive, patriarchal principalities and powers which perpetuate a culture of domination and violence] and want to water down [the reconciling power of God in Christ Jesus to transcend those oppressive systems and call us all to participate in the Reign of God] that builds that wall. The wall is built, as it always has been, by you "stiff-necked, uncircumcised in heart and ears, [who] are forever opposing the Holy Spirit, just as your ancestors used to do." (Acts 6)
We can both play this game: but is the "Kingdom" advanced by our playing it? If Littleton and Kosovo don't call us to something higher than name calling, scripture-jousting and judgementalism, I'm in the wrong business.
Your Sister in Christ, Susan in SanPedro
Hey Folks - REALLY!!!! It's the Flaming Liberals vs. the Encrusted Pharisees tied zero to zero in the fourth quarter. If we really want to argue this one there are usually a lot of takers on the UMC Message Board! What happened to Jesus showing a lot of people who only saw God as the Giant Angry Rulegiver in the Sky the idea of God as a loving Father? Yet, is one a Christian if they do not profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior - and isn't that setting boundaries of exclusion? Is there anything we can discuss without the L vs C argument rearing its ugly head? Is everything always a source of argument - I don't think that is what Jesus said: I thought it was "Go make of all disciples" not "Go out and argue."
"If you know me, you will know the Father" is a good example of something I think we can all build on. How do we know Jesus, and how is this an entre into "knowing" the Father? What would it be like to "know" God? But, we are still asking for someone to "show us the Father." Don't believe it - Look at the posts above.
God Bless;
Rev. Rick.
Dear Rick in Va...After reading your comments of April 25, I have two responses...One is that you threw around more labels than the canned goods aisle after an earthquake.... Secondly, well, I won't wince when I preach from this passage, but I might if I were to hear you. Of course Christians are those who do confess Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior. But that is a basis for teaching and leading, not hammering and generalizing about everyone else out there. Even we Christians are guilty of violence - just check church history, old and recent. There is plenty of responsibility and blame for all of us when it comes to issues like evil in our school hallways. Singer-songwriter Ani DeFranco has a great line that has often made me stop and think...it goes something like..."Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right." Peace Peace Peace brothers and sisters. jz.
Rev Rick,
Disciple of what? Of mush... Of vagueness... Of whatever you define 'Christ' to be?
I think not...
We are to make disciples of the Biblical Jesus Christ, the one and only Son of God who takes away the sins of the world, by whom only we can come to the Father, by whom only we can be saved.
You may believe that this is nothing more than a battle between L's and C's but I think it's far from being that trivial. Those in the pews, those in Littleton, those in the world, are confused by the confusion being preached in many a pulpit, and the vagueness, the grayness, the mushiness being proclaimed about the person of Jesus Christ and His purpose.
This passage, and so many others in Scripture, are a far cry from the theological oatmeal being proclaimed in many a dead church. The world needs to know that there is right and wrong, truth and lies and that Christ is the embodiment of right and truth and has come to save us from proclamations of wrong and falsehood.
But to hear some, Christ is nothing more than the Grand Poo Bah of the Society of I-want-to-do-good-to-others Club (another Dalai Lama, another Gandhi, another place-your-favorite-decent-person-here and leave all that stuff about Salvation, Divinity, Repentance and the like to the "Encrusted Pharisees" of the world.
What I believe this does is diminish evil and when evil is dumbed down, a 'normally rebellious' young man or woman will begin to do even more ourtrageous things in order to rebel (ie. Littleton, Paducah, Jonesboro, etc.) against the status quo. When the status quo includes that which Scripture clearly defines as deviant, then woe to the world when the rebellious begin to 'feel their oats'.
So you might see why some of us are passionate about Truth, the existence of false doctrine, concepts of right and wrong and every other "encrusted Pharasaical" whimsy that seems so foolish to the "enlightened".
There are consequences for our ideas. Some of them can be horrific. The denying of truth can be one of the most horrific, especially when the denying is being made by those ordained to be guardians of the same.
Rick in Va
Here's the deal, Rick: Suppose Jesus really means what he says: nobody comes to the Father except through him. What does he mean by that? Does he mean that nobody is saved unless they believe this and that about his being born of a virgin, or being of the Trinity, or what ever? Or, does he mean that nobody gets saved unless they go through his way; unless they do it like him? He says this as he is struggling with his followers views of a supernatural messiah who will quickly set up a kingdom, not with a messiah wh will be executed in short order by the state. Isn't he talking about taking up the cross? And what is this cross? What is this way? Is it not the way that proclaims freedom to the oppressed, release to the poor, sight to the blind, freedom to those in prisions? Isn't he talking about the way that would sell all and give to the poor? What if this is what he means by coming "through him". Who says "through him" means believing on a certain dogmatic formulation about him? That is not what the disciples were struggling with. They were struggling with "the Way". Rick, this isn't about liberals versus conservatives unless you want it to be! It's not a question of doctrinal purity versus watered down mush. Its a costly gospel, and a narrow way. But, it is not a way of dogma, but of practice. It is not faith in a formulation, for the Lord himself says, in the same text, "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then beliebve me because of the works themselves." Suppose Jesus means that nobody is saved apart from following him in the struggle for justice? Some follow. Some refuse. Some water down. Some sit on the sidelines of history and argue dogmatic formula and correct wording. For me, this is the interpretation that fits with the context of this text, and with Matthew, Mark and Luke as well. What does God say to your soul?
DC in RI
Where is Nail Bender when we need him?
Dear Friends,
In response to RevJan's asking us to share good ideas -- this one came from my husband at midnight Saturday. Too late to share for last week, but perhaps you might want to use it. I preached on evil and hearing the voice of the shepherd vs the voice of the thief. During the course of the sermon we took time to write letters of prayer to the people of Littleton. We just passed out half-size pieces of paper and pens and pencils while the organist played. This morning I sent them to the church of our denomination nearest the high school (as best I could figure), asking the rector to do with them as he sees fit. I looked over the letters to make sure they were comforting (they were). My favorite is from one of the kids. It depicts two people saying ‘Let’s get past this’, together with a picture of someone kneeling in prayer.
Littleton Churches are listed at
http://www.littleton.org/LCN/Clubs/CLchurch.htm
HW in HI
PS. Mahalo to DC in RI !
In my sermon -- barely begun -- I am going to concentrate on the verse "The one who believes in me will also do the works that I do, and, in fact, will do greater works than these. . ." That is, I hope to get my people to consider the question: "AM I A TRUE BELIEVER?" Isn't this another way of telling his disciples that the "proof is in the pudding?" Personally, and this may be simplistic, but I have settled the issue with myself by believing that the good people who love God by other names and other religions, who have "done the works of God" will pass Jesus "on the way" to Father/God and will say -- "Hey! You really ARE God, the MESSIAH!" And they will bow in worship. (Thus, no one comes to the Father but by [Jesus].) As much as I believe in Jesus as the Christ and the Savior of the world, in the love of God for the whole world and all of creation, I still find it terribly audacious of myself to say that "Christians" are the only ones who will be/are "saved." I don't think we have access to the last page yet. RevKK
What does it mean to believe in God - at the end of this second millenium. I don't think that many people believe in God, nor do they hope in the resurrection? If they do believe, it is only after death. Thus, this reading is a funeral reading. Those who do believe - have a vague, abstract notion of "God" You can sense this unbelief in our congregants for most will say they have some greek notion of immortality, but the resurrection of the flesh / the body though proclaimed in the ancient creeds have little place in contemporary thought or praxis.
"God" is just out there! Might hear us when we pray, but separated from the history of Israel, and the biography of Jesus!! We need to recapture the reality that the God of Jesus Christ, is indeed, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. To be a Christian means to become desert dwellers as we move from our own bondages to the freedom of the promised land. "I am the way, truth, life" is simply and invitation to accept Y-H-W as our Father/Mother/Parent.
tom in ga
A moment ago, I raised a quasi-theological concern, but my main concern is what do our people need to hear - what are they hungry for? These words seem so very distant from our average congregant. How do speak to them?
tom in ga
Dan in CA: I like a notion I read from Wesly Arijhian(sp?)'book on the passage about Jesus as the way, truth, life, etc: He encouraged readers to ask the question: If Jesus was the way, what did that "way" he lived demonstrate? If Jesus was the "truth", then what truth did he incarnate? If Jesus was the "life", then what life did he encourage by the life he lived himself? If found this helpful because it avoids the conversation about the restrictions of "the" as an exclusionary article. Here one can take the most literal view yet find an openness that is unusal. Of course, Jesus in his person was far more grace filled and persons receiving than our frequent fundamentalists interpretations of this verse. Peace.
Just a note about last weeks lesson. Someone asked why the pericope ended with verse 10. Another portion of ch 10 will be used next year in Year B and the last of Ch 10 is used in Year C. Just for your info. Ron in IN, lurking!
This is exactly what happened to Stephen when he saw the glory of God with Jesus standing at God's right hand (Acts 7:55-60). Describing what he saw drove the people to stone him to death. The Israelites were afraid to see the glory of God, for it was dangerous. We too often fill our days with trivia, including church meetings and internet chatter. Is it to avoid seeing the glory of God? God's glory instantly sears away the dross. It will kill us, that's for sure. Ain'ta that good news! Anne in Providence
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.... for me this is beautiful and wonderful and has been my personal experience. This is why I am able to call myself a Christian... Jesus has shown me the way to God, the truth of God and the life I am able to live in relationship with God. When did this text become misinterpreted to support the exclusive nature of the Christian Church seeking to deny God to people of all faiths. Surely Christ, with God in the beginning, in Creation as The Word,will not be limited to a humanly constructed institution called the church...The Way, The Truth and The Life is far too important a divine gift to be constrained within organised religion. That said.. like many of us on this site, I struggle with how to bring the text alive and to be authentic in my sermon for Sunday... Gill also from VA!!
For some reason a few (by my count 6) keep quoting the first sentence only in verse 14:6. In my Bible "the Way, the Truth and the Life" is only half of the full verse. In my NIV, the verse goes on to say "No one comes to the Father except through me." Is there some reason some messages keep leaving off the rest of the text? Is there a version of the Bible that does leave off the second sentence in that verse? Just curious.
I guess Jesus lied when he said no one comes to the Father except through me. By the reaction of some here I see that they seem to think there are other ways. They acknowledge Jesus as the bridge but then say it's okay to maybe fly across or swim the river across or use other means to get from one side to the other. We must use the bridge to get from one side to the other, and by using the bridge we learn the Truth....Jesus is the way. Why does the bible have to be so hard? Just use the simplicity of a child and accept what the inspired word says. Sure there may be other ways to other gods (with a little g). Does that mean it's the Truth? For those who pray to their god, let them try their ways to get there. I've never seen a human fly (without a machine) and the river is too wide to swim. When they get too tired, the Bridge will always be there for them. But until they accept that Bridge, their labor is in vain. Just accept Jesus' words with childlike faith. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and no one comes to the Father excpet through Him. Why is this so hard to accept? It is for all who accept(yes, even those who try flying or swimming first), God wants all to accept, but not all want God....they want their own god for their own purpose. Why doesn't their god answer?
First of all...I do not see anything that would exclude anyone from the Kingdom of God here. Since the beginning of time, mankind have made choices. Some good..some not so good. Verse 6 does not claim to exclude anyone, just makeing a statement of fact the Jesus is the ONLY way to God. All men and women have the choice to accept Jesus as who He says He is, if they refuse, are we lible to change the rules because of their unbelief? I will agree that many C's (and many L's too, by the way) try to fix this within their denonminational theology, but to open this up to any religion or any belief system seems to be stretching the point a bit.If there were other ways, then why evanglize? The second point I would like to make is that the real point from where I am in this passage is not just verse 6. Jesus was comforting his disciples, they were a confused lot at this point and Jesus was makeing the point that Jesus...Son of the God of Israel, was leaving to prepare a place greater than they could imagine, but better yet, would have the power to do great things in the name of the Father. Both of these ideas would be transforming principles in the lives of the early Christians, which we see very clearly in the death of Stephen in Acts Chapter 7.
Cas in MO
Jesus spoke these words to comfort His Disciples the night before His death. It seems fitting, therefore, to use these words of comfort for those going to be with Jesus eternally. One of my hospice patients loved the words, and the day before he died I went on to explain when he was ready, "to just let go and cross the river, because Jesus is on the other side waiting" for him. I reminded him Jesus went to prepare an eternal mansion for him. (I like the KJV "mansion" better than "rooms.") The next afternoon, the man was getting very close to the end, (or should I say begining,) when his daughter asked what was happening. He smiled, chuckled and said, "I'm going boating!" With those words, he died. revup
Who says there are no Saducees and Pharisees today? Just read through this column. As we prepare a message for this week, I pray that each of us will be guided by the Holy Spirit instead of our own intellect. We wonder why people see us as irrelevant: Pray for the Spirit. Elwood in WI
Yes, revup, these words really are comforting for the dying. Thank you for your beautiful story. I, too, use this often in funerals and to comfort the dying or family of the dying. But, although Jesus knew he was dying and was saying these words to comfort his disciples, he was also issuing them a challenge for LIVING! In essence, he said, you saw me do it, now you go and do it! Believing is not a head trip or a systematic theology. Believing is ACTIVE and calls for ACTION. That's the message for those in the pews, I think. What a great way of putting a congregation's believing into action, HWofHI...that was wonderful. A WAY calls for a journey. Jesus WAY calls for following and doing. I heard a story once about a missionary who wanted to visit an isolated tribe in the deepest part of interior Africa. He finally found a guide who would take him there. But, before he trusted him as his guide, he wanted to see the map the guide would use. The guide had no map. The missionary followed him, since he was the only guide he could find who would take him there. As they were slashing there way through the thick overgrowth, the missionary kept saying "Wouldn't it be better to go this way?" "Are you sure this is the way?" and so forth. Finally the native turned to the missionary and said "I AM way...FOLLOW ME! By the way, the village received the word of God and converted to Christianity. Jesus said: "If you believe in me, the works that I do, you will do also." I believe that is the bottom line. REvKK.
By the way, I wanted to add that the story was a true story as experienced by Malcolm Smith, Bible teacher, author, missionary and now a Bishop in the Evangelical Lutheran church (I think that's the name of it.) Just wanted to validate it. RevKK
As the resident heretic and theological liberal who sees Christ as being more than a single man who is "worthy of all worship" as the Te Deum puts it, I am going to depart from the I Am sayings, and read this passage as :The Way is Me, the Truth is Me, the Life is Me. And yes, no one comes to the Father but by me certainly applies if we find Christ-hood in many places and in many men and women. Rick in VA, I loved your breakfast references to mush and oatmeal. I find both of those hearty eating. Liberals, I will go off in a corner and wait the onslaught; I wouldn't want you to get tainted by the tarbrush that is me. Cheers! OldMrGrace in Dallas.
Last week we preached to our sheep, asking them to become shepherds themselves, and challenged them to help the lost lambs and sheep hear the voice of the Good Shepherd. (Instead of hearing Hitler and hate.) The sheep and lambs resoponded, "Yes, we sure do need to do a better job of leading and seeking lost sheep. But please, reassure us and comfort us, because we are afraid to send our innocent little lambs to school." And the lambs are crying out, "We saw what happened to the other lambs, and we are afraid. Give us comfort and reassurance." So this week, we will preach about the place the Good Shepherd went to "prepare for us." The sheep and lambs need to be reminded that if they are forced to lay down their lives for other sheep, like the Good Shepherd did, they do not have to worry. If they are attacked by the "thieves and robbers," they need not worry. My flock are ready for comfort this week, not another strong challenge to help other sheep listen to the Good Shepherd, and help other sheep. Jesus preached both messages, comfort and action. A spoon full of soothing comfort and medicine can help the hurting and frightened sheep and lambs have more courage to do the awesome work which desperately needs to be done. Jesus spoke this message as one of comfort to a confused Thomas and the other disciples, as well as a challenge to do "the greater works than these." Do your lambs and sheep need comfort this week, or challenge, maybe both? Let us each pray hard for what the Holy Spirit wants us to tell our sheep, what they need, and not necessarily just what our personal agendas are. Some of us get so carried away with our spiritual agenda that we forget the works. Others of us get so carried away with our works, we forget our spiritual lives. In the words of J. Vernon MaGee, "A pastor's job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable." Which will we do this week, with this passage? revup
Yow! I'm almost afraid to jump in, the water's so hot and swift!
But...even tho I have nothing to add to the predominant discussion going on here, I would like to offer some ideas for sermon preparation.
First, a story. A friend of mine told me about a Rev. Mr. Harper, a Scottish Presbyterian minister, who was aboard the Titanic. He insisted on giving his life jacket to a fellow passenger who had none. The passenger said, "Are you sure you want to do this, Reverend? The ship is certain to go down." Rev. Harper replied, "I'm not going down; I'm going up!"
Next, an observation about the text. I see in Thomas' question and in Philip's request two reactions common among the followers of Jesus even today. Some of us feel that we can't know the way if we don't know where Jesus is going. The answer is to learn about Jesus. Some of us are looking for easy solutions - Just show us the Father, and we will be satisfied. In response, Jesus demands that we seek a relationship with him; that we struggle with his identity.
I'm really hard up for illustrations this week. Could any of you help?
Paul in SC
And now for something completely different . . .
I was struck by verses 7-9, because Jesus says that if we have seen him, we have seen the Father. We're talking about the Image of God!
I think it was in Bible Review, or perhaps its sister publication Biblical Archeological Review, that had an article that talked about the history of "the image of God." This was a common claim for those in the ruling positions, that they were made in God's image, but that the people were not -- heance, their divine right to rule. Part of the genius of Genesis 1 is that we hear the good news that we are all made in God's image!
We have often had trouble seeing God's image in each other. Jesus, by his words and actions, by his death, resurrection and ascension, helps us to focus on that image.
Nick
Perhaps this is helpful:
When struggling with this passage some time back, my spiritual director looked at me and said, "Who says you have to now?" I had no idea what she meant. "Who says you have to know you go throught Jesus? Who says he has to be wearing a neon sign?"
Perhaps this is a bit like having managed to get on the right road without a map, or with an inaccurate map. Maybe one misses the scenic lookouts, but the road is the right road....
HW in HI
Remember "Let's Make A Deal"? That chaotic game show where contestants had to choose between a box, a door or a curtain: hoping to pick right and win "the big prize?" The stress and tension would mount as the crowd screamed, "the box, the box!" and others "the curtain, the curtain!!" Many of us were raised to believe in a God that looked like Charlton Heston but acted like Monty Hall: holding out the promise of eternal life -- abundant joy -- but only if we guessed right: picked the "correct" theology, doctrine or liturgy from all the competing voices. What if we are wrong? And if I have to be "right" to be saved then my security -- safety -- identity -- is based on making sure any differing opinions are WRONG.
So WWJD? Let's listen: "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves." Jesus' own words tell us that getting the details "correct" matters infinitely less than how we respond to his message of God's love for us: and his call for us to "go and do likewise." Yes, Jesus IS the Way, the Truth and the Life -- and no one comes to the Father except through him. Jesus NEVER called us to worship him: he beseeched us to FOLLOW him -- to share with him the work of redeeming the creation and calling all humanity into relationship with the One he called Father in the place where he has already gone to prepare for us. Now THERE'S Good News! Blessings, Susan in SanPedro
P.S. "OldMrGrace" ... if I'm ever in Dallas, can I buy you an oatmeal?
Did Jesus ever call us to worship the Father? And did He not also state that He and the Father are one? Might we conclude then that we are certainly to worship Jesus?
Are we to now believe, from pastors and shepherds of Christ's church no less, that we are no longer to see Christ as the unique way to God the Father but also now not to worship Jesus, because He did not ask us to? We're to follow Him but not worship Him?
As far as Jesus not desiring us to be concerned about getting the details correct, I wonder what we do with these verses, each quoting our Lord Himself:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." (John 3:16-18)
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16)
"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." (John 8:24)
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say." (John 12:47-50)
Is it too much to ask to preach the full gospel?
Rick in Va
Susan in San Pedro: If you buy me an oatmeal let's make sure it isn't made from "Scratch"!
"Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these"
Maybe I missed the point here, remind me - is this passage about reconciliation to God, or what? Is it about encouraging people, or what? I really am lost on the doctrine arguement here. The people we server are not going to care that much about how we do it - they just want to have an encounter with the living loving God.
I agree with Rick in VA that Jesus is the Way, but we need to be careful, because we so often will exclude those that have not heard the Good News. My understanding of God is that those who have not heard will not be punished for lack of knowledge.
I serve a congregation that quite frankly does not care what doctrine I preach - since the doctrine that they grew up on left them abused and feeling abandoned by God. They want to know that Go dis there - with them in the midst of life and death struggles. Let the theology hang for all they care. Now with that said I do care if I am teaching sound doctrine, but I would much prefer to stick to God's transforming love through Christ than to demand a perfect doctrine from all.
This Sunday I hope we all share the Love of God and the peace that God is there for us always, even when we are searching and on the wrong path. Always trying to lead us home - seeking us just as we seek.I remain with you
In Christ's Love and Service, Greg in Nashville
Paul in SC regarding illustrations. Sorry everybody is too busy arguing to give you an illustration. Try this illustration, if you believe Jesus came to show us the Way:
One man writes, "I can still recall a geography lesson. We learned the southernmost point of Africa experienced tremendous storms for centuries. No one knew what lay beyond the cape, no ship rounding the point ever returned. Among the ancients it was called the "Cape of Storms" for good reason. A Portuguese explorer in the sixteenth century, Vasco De Gama, sailed around that point and found beyond the wild raging storms, a great calm sea, and beyond, the shores of India. The name of the cape was changed from the Cape of Storms to the Cape of Good Hope. Until Jesus rose from the dead, death had been the cape of storms, on which all hopes of life beyond were wrecked. No one knew what lay beyond that point until, on Easter morning, ancient visions of Isaiah became the victory of Jesus over our last great enemy. Like those ancient explorers, we can see beyond human death to the hope of heaven and eternal life with the Father. The risen Christ says to us, "Because I live, you shall live also." revup
"Truth consists not in knowing the truth, but in being the truth" (Soren Kierkegaard). Jesus life was one of "being the 'way', truth, and 'life'", and this "way of being" confronts us; for how often do we fall short of "being the way, truth, and life." A relationship with God results in "being the truth" ("the one who believes will also do the works that I do"). Does one have to be "Christian" to be "the way, the truth, and life?" I guess that depends on how we define "way, truth, and life." Do all Christians who "believe" Jesus to be "the way, truth, and life" live a life corresponding to the "way, truth, and life," and do all non-Chrisitans live lives that are devoid of the "way, truth, and life?" May God spare us from such judmental thinking as we concentrate upon our own lives and share Christ as we walk in "the way, truth, and life."
"Truth consists not in knowing the truth, but in being the truth" (Soren Kierkegaard). Jesus life was one of "being the 'way', truth, and 'life'", and this "way of being" confronts us; for how often do we fall short of "being the way, truth, and life." A relationship with God results in "being the truth" ("the one who believes will also do the works that I do"). Does one have to be "Christian" to be "the way, the truth, and life?" I guess that depends on how we define "way, truth, and life." Do all Christians who "believe" Jesus to be "the way, truth, and life" live a life corresponding to the "way, truth, and life," and do all non-Chrisitans live lives that are devoid of the "way, truth, and life?" May God spare us from such judmental thinking as we concentrate upon our own lives and share Christ as we walk in "the way, truth, and life." Mark in Va
H. A. Ironside was occasionally interrupted during his sermons with the objection that there were hundreds of religions,” and that no one could determine which was the right way. Ironside would answer by indicating that he knew of only two religions. “One,” he would say, “covers all who expect salvation by doing; the other, all who have been saved by something done. The whole question is very simple. Can you save yourself, or must you be saved by another?”
Jesus never said that he came to SHOW us the Way, He said "I AM the Way" Being a Christian isn't about claiming a certain set of beliefs; it is about living as Jesus lived. For this week's sermon I am working with the two differing *imatio dei* seen in Jesus' time--the religious leaders' "Be holy as God is holy" with its purity code that drew divisions between the "pure" and the "impure" and Jesus' "Be compassionate as God is compassionate" which drew in all which God has made. (Borg, "Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time")
Does anyone have any stories/jokes that point out the differing views of God? (Other that the ones which Jesus told and which have been heard so often that their impact is dulled.) Thank you, in advance, for your help.
JoyinX@aol.com
Is anyone thinking about "preparation" part of the passage? I sometimes use the illustration of the preparation that a family makes when a new born baby is coming home. God's preparation for us will be even more expectant and loving. As we are made comfortable in the new reality beyond death perhaps God will gently introduce us to those that we thought were beyond his grace by showing us their lives in full with surprising acts of love and unexpected trust in one that they call by a different name. Perhaps Jesus will show us that his arms extend beyond our limitations of forgiveness. What if my prepared place is next to someone I didn't think would or should make it? I guess we'll just have to trust the host with the invitation list. P.S. C.S Lewis's story "The great divorce" has some challenging allegories about the after life. PeterO.
Perhaps a sermon title: "Faith: Roadmap or Relationship?"
Kendra in VA
I mentioned a few weeks ago that I am getting more and more leary of theology as I get older. And it is surprising how many of us are theologians, even those from churches who claim to be "Biblical." For example, a great many Biblical churches do not hesitate to interpret John chapter 6 as "symbolic"...definitely "not literal" because it goes against their theology. The same is true for Matthew 26: 26-28 and Mark 14: 22-24 and Luke 22: 19-20. Also Matthew 16:18-20. And yet these same churches are "horrified" when the first 11 chapters of Genesis are understood as "special stories." So what's happening? We are all approaching Scripture with our preconceived theologies, which we got in the seminary, which came down to us from important "theologian" of the past, be it Augustine or John Calvin or Luther or Wesley of Mr. William Miller. The situation is worse when you couple your special theology with the dogma of "sola scriptura", because then you are forced to look at Scripture as "the written account of the proof of your theology."
But I don't think Scripture is that. It is a part of Liturgy, that earthly celebration of the divine "mystery of Christ" (his Divinity, his death, resurrection, ascension and coming again.) It was taken out of Liturgy by necessity when some early bishops began preaching heresy about the nature of Christ. Hence the nessesity of the early councils. But we should put Scripture back into the Liturgy again, i.e., the celebration of the Mystery of Christ, along with the Eucharist. And when you do, it speaks to the assembly as Christ himself speaking. Too much interpretation by a "preacher", to my mind, gets in the way. Singing it is even better. The ancient churches did a lot of singing of Scripture passages. We have to get back to that. The passages will speak to us "divinely" if we give them a chance.
Sorry, forgot to sign the above post...Joe from Maine
Sorry, forgot to sign the above post...Joe from Maine
Thanks, revup and PeterO et al. I really appreciate the information about the Cape of Storms/Cape of Good Hope. That will definitely preach! I hope the debate will subside the rest of this week, and we get some more good ideas for preaching the good news. It is apparent that nobody is going to convert anybody else to their way of thinking. Frankly, that's not why I log on here, anyway. For me, life's key is to have a growing relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The humble goal of my preaching is always to help my people see that. I respect those who try to articulate doctrine. But I think it would be helpful if you would simply say your piece and then let it go. Oh, well, forgive my impertinence! And keep the illustrations coming, please!
Paul in SC
A story from AHA!!! -- At choir practice one night, a stone came flying through one of the stained glass windows in the church. The pastor ran out the side door in time to see Tom, one of the neighborhood children, running away. AFter choir practice, the pastor went to talk to Tom's mom. He knew that the family had few financial resources, and suggested that Tom do some odd jobs around the house and parsonage in order to work off the damages. Tom did the required work, but continued to hang around wtih the pastor. At Christmas, Tom's grandfather came by the parsonage with a check to cover the cost of the repairs to the window. "The day Tom threw that stone was the best day of his life," he told the pastor. "Knowing you has changed his attitude." It seems that the relationship Jesus is talking about is what is important. Relationship with Jesus changes people. revd
Oops. I didn't make it clear where the AHA!!! story ended and my comment began! The last two sentences are my comment. revd
Any of you doing a service celebrating soil and water stewardship? I'm doing a blessing service, but am looking for some preaching ideas.
Tigger in ND
Help. I am working with a young woman and her family and planning her funeral service. She remembers hearing a poem "the Tentmaker". Does any one know who wrote it or where I might find it? It does fit with "I go to prepare a place for you" but also with what Paul says to the Corrinthians in the 15th chapter. I welcome your input... Manzel
We are dedicating a new cross on the front of the church this week. It was purchased by the widow of a faithful member who died last year. Does anyone have any resources for a special dedication liturgy? We will want to honor the man, but not lose sight of the real focus. Christ, of course. Thanks, dm in MI
Thanks for the illustration Revup.
What Jesus is telling his friends is that because of him it is possible to be in relationship with God. I'm trying to drive this point home without being too theological.
Keep the illustrations coming,
Love Paula in Fl.
Sorry, I can't help with illustrations. That's why I log on here: to get some. I like the idea of that one of you posted that "Jesus is the Way...what way did He illustrate; Jesus is the Truth...how did he see the world; Jesus is the Life...what kind of life did He live." So I think I am going to tie this passage in with Acts 9: 2 "...if he (Saul) found any men or women belonging to this Way, he might bring them in bonds to Jerusalem."
How can we live the way of Christ?
It is different in each life's calling. For military people (of whom I have a lot in our congragation) it is in one way, for college professors it is in another way, etc. WE recently celebrated the 100th anniversary of a French Carmelite nun, Therese Martin (known as St. Therese of Liseux) the yongest daughter in the family, who wanted to be a saint so badly that she determined she would serve God in what she called "her LITTLE way." Nothing spectacular (can the life of a Carmelite nun be spectacular?) but her "little way" was recognized by Church authorities, who approved of her teachings.
After I get through giving my (and your) insights into this passage I am goinhg to sing it. Sometimes I do that, preach before I read the passage...set the congregation up for it, so to speak. This is the first time I am going to sing it though...in English (although I have sung Gospel passages in Latin back in the old days), if my throat doesn't give out. (Up here in this Maine weather I often get "throaty" and can't take a chance on singing.) I will let you know how I made out. Anyway, my object is to let the beautiful words of Jesus speak for themselves. Thanx again for your illustrations. --Joe from Maine
If you want doctrinal debates please check out the theological dialogue site.
dm in MI the 1998 Lent, Easter, Pentecost issue of "Gathering" has a short dedication service for mainly hymn books, but it can be adapted. It is a start. There is also another resource called "Other Liturgies" and I know there is a complete dedication liturgy in one of the series. I will try to find it and get the correct citation to you.
Is anyone connecting the epistle with the gospel? Christ as the cornerstone and Jesus being the way, truth and life? Would this be attempting just too much? WW in QC
Is the uniqueness of Christ considered doctrine?
Tigger in ND: Wartburg or University of Dubuque Seminaries in Dubuque Iowa have a rural ministry group with land and conservation liturgies and preaching information. Phone #319 589-3000 or 319 589-0200 (in an old phone book, hope they are good #s. revup
To answer the post, I would say the uniqueness of Christ is doctrine in some churches, and considered falacy in others. revup
Where IS Nail Bender? Are my people going to miss his illustration this week?
I was working evenings as a chaplain in a big city hospital, earning almost enough to buy groceries for my family while I was in seminary. I had finished eating, and knew it was time to ride the elevator up to the floors. They wanted to see me on oncology, and there was an aids patient dying on another floor. The evening shift was tough. The energy for the day was sapped, doctors had mostly left the grounds. Some of the patients had visitors, of course, but some families could hardly bear to see their loved ones dying, and they seldom came.
I squared my shoulders, ready to begin, or at least resigned to try. I thought of that oath, “First, do no harm.” That was me, at least I would no harm. I watched the elevator lights as it slid silently down to my floor and the door opened. A huge woman began to walk out. She walked slowly, so slowly. I became anxious; it was late and I must get upstairs. The doors closed behind her, my elevator slid upward without me. She looked at me and apologized, then asked, “Are you a chaplain?” Well, I was, so I nodded. She began crying. Crying and sobbing.
I took her arm, and slowly we walked to a bench. It seemed to take hours, she moved so slowly, heaving with each breath. And crying – deep, gut-wrenching sobs. Finally, the story came out. Her name was Mary. Mary’s daughter was in intensive care. Mary was exactly my age. She had left home at 14, and taken up “devil drugs.” Those drugs ran her life. She had child after child, and was in fact now a grandmother, making Mary herself a great-grandmother. (I was sure, though, that I was not old enough to be a grandmother. My son was seven. Let’s see, how could that work? Never mind, she was a grandmother!) Mary’s daughter had led an impossible life on the streets, doing drugs, having babies, giving up babies, having abortions. Now she was dying, and wanted nothing to do with her mother.
Then the question. Mary stopped sobbing. She looked at me and said, “Do you think she is going to hell? Will my daughter go to hell?” I was dumbfounded. What could I say to her? What did I believe? Why didn’t I move a little faster and take an earlier elevator? I looked into Mary’s face. Her brown hair was caught back in a bun. Her face was plump and smooth, but as the song says, you could see the tracks of her tears. “Mary,” I answered, “I think she had her hell. Right here on earth. I can’t imagine God would make her go through hell twice.”
I went upstairs to the ICU and watched Mary’s daughter. She was attached to numerous machines and not conscious. I stayed and prayed for her; praying for a merciful God who would not condemn her, praying for a loving God who would comfort Mary in her affliction. Then I left. When I returned two days later Mary’s daughter was gone, unplugged....
HW in HI
I have found this sight helpful and stimulating as I prepare for Sundays. I appreciate your insights. Reading the discussions about Jesus as the way reminded me of a story I read recently (I think in a Reader's Digest.) Paraphrasing the story from memory - People were sitting around talking about which way was the way to heaven, each one defending his own doctrine, etc. They finally asked the old farmer sitting there what he thought. He said it reminded him of cotton farmers that picked their cotton and took it to the cotton gin to sell. Some took one road because it was a little shorter. Others took another road because it was a little smoother. But when they got there to sell the cotton, the buyer didn't ask them which road they took, he asked them about the quality of their cotton. I think we as Christians really need to focus on the quality of our cotton, for when it is good, people will find a road to get it. NGA in Iowa
dm in MI: There is a book entitled Dedication Services for Every Occasion by Manfred Holck, Jr. I don't know if this is the proper venue to pass along a couple possibles from this resource (there is a dedication of cross and candlesticks that might work or a dedication of a church sign that might be adapted). I would be happy to pass along what I have if you can't locate the book. jsw in NY
Am I the only one talking about death and dying and Stephen's stoning this week? That scares me. Our children have been deeply affected by the events at Columbine High. I want to talk about death and the promise of eternal life that Jesus gives us. And yes, perhaps if those two boys knew Jesus as The Way, they would not have done what they did. Also, tying the two scriptures shows that violence is not new (look at Cain and Abel), but Jesus shows us another Way. I think children must face the reality of death, but they don't have to be scared of it. Is anyone else tying these two together?
RevJan
Manzel,
Any clue on some of the lines in the poem? Author? Anything beyond the title?
RevJan
I have decided that my flock needs comfort and challenge this week. Several years ago I read a book called echoes of his presence by Ray Vanderzan? This particular author tells a stroy about a marrage. About how the bridegroom and his father would go to the brides house and make a covenant promise with the bride and her father signed as it were in the blood of the sacrifical lamb saying that the marrage would take place and if it did not the fathers would pay with their own blood. Then the groom and the bride were parted as each other prepared for the day of their union. The groom went to build a place for them to live in the family compound and the bride began to prepare for her new household. Neither of them knew the time when this would happen only the bridegrooms father when he felt all was ready. In that preporation time the bride learned all she needed to know to be a good wife to her new husband. If in fact we the church are the bride of Christ and He is coming again to take us home with Him how are we preparing? and what a wonderful promise!!!!! Novice in Nebraska
Do not let your hearts be troubled, believe in God, believe also in me.
You are asking me the imposible,how can I stop my heart from wearing? It is the 28 of the month and i still dont have the rent for this month. HOw do you expect me to believe? Believe in what? I can not believe in anyone, specially around here. Anyone can betray you. When you least expect it they will call the immigration officers on you...
In my fathers house there are many dwelling places... Sure they probably are,just like here, apartment after apartment, one besides the other without space to even breath. Sure you are probably renting them for a lot of money just like the managers down here. Are you also taking two months to repair a toilett or are you charging extra for the carpets? Are you charging $50 a months for the air conditioner if the temperatures get too hot?
If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?... Well, maybe it is true but to be honest is the first time ever that someone offers me a place to live. It seems that no one wants me around.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am there you may be also... You are talking seriously, are you? Why do you want to preapre a place for me? You want me to be where you are? Don't you realize I don't have any friends? No one wants to be around me. They ignore me in the streets because I look different. Even in my work they treat me like trash although I do everything they ask me to, just because I cant speak like them. And you want to be with me?
And you know the way to the place where I am going... No, I dont know, but it doesnt really matter because any place has to be better than here. Anyway I dont have a house, or a bed where to sleep. I sleep in the floor with two other guys that I just met. Any place will be better than here if is true that you want to be with me. Are you sure there is a place for me too? Are you sure you want to be with me? Will you take me? Please?
Latina
Our friend called him a communist. Well, maybe not a communist now, but certainly he was once a communist. Now he would just be known as a bureaucrat, at least that's what they would call him in polite circles. The young bureaucrat. And truly, he was young, only thirty years of habitation on this very small speck of the universe. Yet his demeanor was that of someone much older, someone who had led a life which belied his few years, someone who had grappled with life, rolling through the muck and mud of living, in a struggle more akin to that of Jacob than through an experience youthful bravado.
We met him, like so many others, in a refugee camp. His name was Robert. "A strange name," I thought, at least for a youthful-ex-communist-Yugoslavian, now-Slovenian-bureaucrat. I would have thought that his name would rather be Antonio, or Izet, or perhaps Yosip or Dragon, something more befitting the area and culture … but Robert? Certainly, someone must have made a mistake. Yet, Robert it was. And Robert was not just some unfortunate person who had been shattered by a horrific war. No, bigger and better circumstances made up Robert's reality. Circumstances of place and privilege. Circumstances befitting an ex-communist. Robert was, in fact, the camp director, a position that was responsible for the welfare, health, and control of 350 hungry and battered Bosnian and Croatian refugees.
It was a huge task for one so young, especially as the only thing of which there was ever an abundance was scarcity. Not enough food, not enough clothing, not enough toilets or showers or sinks. Not enough beds or sheets or rooms. Not enough of anything but heartache, pain, and hopelessness. There was always plenty of that. I soon learned, that his venerable demeanor did not stem from simply being wise beyond his years, but was born out of a constant toil with depravity, a labor which brought gray streaks to one's hair and deep lines to one's face.
Yet, each and every time we arrived, Robert would always greet us with a welcoming smile and a hearty handshake. "Welcome, welcome. Come to my office for some coffee!" We would crowd into his small office, the office which was not much larger than his small wooden desk with it's top scored by too many pen-knives over too many years. We would sit in broken, mismatched chairs and his secretary would bring stemming cubs of strong Bosnian coffee. We would sit and chat and sip. He would tell us about the latest news about the flow of refugees, the shortages Slovenia faced and the failure of the international community to fully respond to the disaster. And at some point, almost with every visit, at some point his voice would fade away and his eyes would focus beyond the walls of that very cramped office, to a place where there was not so much pain, to a place where death did not win so very often. He never stayed in that place for long. Maybe the moments were enough.
I always liked bureaucratic Robert, even though he would sometimes ask for some of our supplies, those supplies which we had meant for refugees - refugees who had nothing. But then, Slovenia was not a wealthy country, and we rich Americans had so much. How could we say no? Yes, I really liked this young-old ex-communist. And although I really liked him, because there were so many other faces in that place of nightmares, I'm sure that with time, his face would fade into the recesses of my memory, perhaps finding it's way to conscious thought at some unexpected future moment - except for this one thing.
The war had not been going well, but then does any war ever go well? The convoluted battle-lines seemed to stem from horrific chaotic malevolence, nation against nation, Orthodox Christian Serbia against Islamic Bosnia, Orthodox Christian Serbia against Catholic Croatia. It was horrible and the nightmare had so pummeled these Bosnian-Croatian refugees. But now things had grown worse, much worse. For now, Croatian forces had attacked Bosnian Muslims. The Catholics and the Muslims were warring against one another, the countrymen, the friends, the families of these refugees, these Catholic and Muslim refugees.
Tempers in the camp soared. A knife was confiscated from a young Catholic teenager as he bore down on a young Islamic boy. Tensions mounted higher and higher until it seemed that no container on earth could suppress the volatile spirit. Just when it seemed the camp would explode, out marched the young ex-communist bureaucrat, right into the face of the brewing hate, right into the midst of the maelstrom, right into the middle of camp. He climbed onto a dirty concrete picnic table, right up onto that table where Yugoslavian border troops had once ate their noon-day meals. He stood in the middle of the warring factions and he stared down on them, eyes flashing. He stared down on them until they became silent. And then in a quiet voice he spoke. "There is nowhere else left for you to go. There is nowhere else. So, if you are going to kill each other, do it now and be done with it."
He stood on that picnic table, back straight and arms extended from his sides, his palms outstretched. He didn't say another word. Standing in the middle of their hate, his presence said it all - "But if you are going to kill each other, you will have to kill me first." Suspended on that table, arms outstretched, there was Robert, looking very much like another person in another place and time, another person with outstretched palms, a bloody body, and a thorny crown, the other person who was not raised over a church alter, but over a garbage heap, raised not on a symbol of gold, but on a rough-hewn device of torture.
One by one, they turned away, Catholics and Muslims overcome with pain, and made a slow journey back to their rooms.
My friends, I do not know what it means for heaven to be a place of many rooms. I must also admit that I do not know exactly what Jesus meant when he said we would only come to the Father through him. And though I am not a scholar, I would guess that neither do you. The church has been arguing about these things for two millennium. But with an untroubled heart, I suspect that if there is no place for Robert there, then there is no place for any of us.
Shalom my friends, Nail-Bender in NC
I'm seeking insight. I'm interested in the situation from which this witness (vs.6-7) comes. When John's Gospel was formulated, the Jesus movement was not a major world religion competing with a host of other major world religions. The questions we want these verses to answer were not necessarily the questions with which John dealt. In my preaching, I'm concerned with witness more than theological explication. Is anybody out there understanding this scripture passage as the witness of a particular group of people at a particular time? If so, how can that particular witness inform the witness of a group of Jesus followers in 20th century America? Lost in Maine
A couple of helpful items from the current (April 21-28) issue of "The Christian Century":
1. From an ad on p. 453 for the book "Philemon's Problem - A Theology of Grace" by James Tunstead Burtchaell: "The church's mission today...is not to offer a privileged avenue into God's favor, but to offer the privileged insight that God can have no attitude but favor."
2. From an article on p. 457 by Marva Dawn, "True Worship, Real Evangelism": "Pluralism does not mean that we back down on what we believe, but that we offer it as a gift, with respect and gentleness, with openness to hear the truth claims of our partner in conversation."
Also, along the same lines as Nail-Bender's story of Robert, I recommend "Tuesdays with Morrie" by Mitch Albom. Morrie Schwartz is a wonderful, admirable person and professor. “The truth is, once you learn how to die, you learn how to live” (p. 82). If we want to categorize Morrie Schwartz, we might call him an “agnostic Jew.” He is not a believer in Jesus. But he teaches, and exemplifies, many of the things Jesus taught and exemplified. “How do you find a meaningful life? Devote yourself to loving others, devote yourself to your community around you, and devote yourself to creating something that gives you purpose and meaning” (p. 127). About forgiveness and reconciliation: “Make peace. You need to make peace with yourself and everyone around you. Forgive yourself. Forgive others.” Don’t hold on to old resentments and regrets. (pp. 166-7).
“If there is no dwelling place in the Father’s house for Morrie, then there is no place for any of us.”
Oops. Forgot to sign. Doug in Riverside.
Gerard Sloyan does a nice job of discussing the various opinions about the gospel of John and its setting, author and major intent. As I have long heard, John was written from the point of view of Jewish Christians who had either recently broken with the synagogue over the issue of their belief in Jesus as Messiah or a group that was constantly in trouble in the synagogue for the same reasons or perhaps a group whose beliefs about Jesus were so "high" that even other Christians had a hard time swallowing them. This gospel (like all of them) is intended to tell this group's story - to show how their life as a community reflects the truth of Christ, to relate the stories that they built their belief system on, etc. In the face of family and friends who have told these people that they have turned their back on God/tradition/history and gone astray, they answer "Jesus is the way - it is you who are not following the right way." Or, more to the point, they have Jesus answer the accusations for them by saying "I am the way...no one comes to the Father but by me."
Seems to me that Jesus came to let us know that the law was not the way to God in and of itself. The law was a guide, but was not intended to determine every step a person took. Sometimes compassion or common sense had to take precedent. How many of us set up a born again experience as the new law? Ancient Jews, our ancestors in faith, believed that only if one kept the law could that one be in right relationship with God. How many of us now say that only by being in a certain relationship with Jesus are people in right relationship with God?
I just signed on for the first time and read about half of the conversation before writing this. Has anyone taken into account why John has Jesus saying this? Also, I am a real believer in looking at the entire pericope before deciding what I believe about several words! I just don't believe Jesus would want us to point fingers and judge one another based on how we preach on Sunday. He never excluded anyone he met, the sick, the sinner, the tax man (!) and he never told them if they did not believe in only him that they would not be saved. I think I will preach on the passage as the prayer of which it is a part. Especially in light of the shootings and the war, I wonder how others accept that vs. 13 isn't always answered the way we expect. sk, NY
As with our reading from 1 Peter 2:4-10, we're faced here with such a simple, unequivocal statement of truth that elaboration bbecomes, it we're not careful, more of a duty than a necessity. Jesus simply, really simply, tells us why it was necessary for Him to do what He did.
God as a concept is something for mystics, Gnostics and philosophers to conjure with. One thing that the NT makes clear, Judaism had become a very elitist religion. Sadducees, Pharisees and priests handled the politico-religious end of things, and the great mass of the people was left pretty much in the Dark about who God was. God was who the religious establishment said He was, and the people had better believe it. I think of the poor blind man at the pool of Siloam after Jesus healed him. He found himself in the incredible position of having to protect God from the religious establishment.
As it turns out, though, God is not a concept or even a mysterious person to be approached by keeping sevearl hundred rules which only the privileged would have time to keep. God is as accessible as a caring neighbor, as simple as a hand extended to heal, as usual and common and unexplainable as love itself, as a carpenter's son. God is not the property of the wise, or the rich, or the powerful, or even the good. He moves in the world quite independently of all these. No one is beyond His care, not is He beyond the need of anyone.
This diveinely huamn, humanly divine Person, whom simple, direct Thomas has known as closely as he has known anyone, is none other than the Way to the Father - the ultimate, complete revelation of who God is. This revelation is utterly trustworthy. No more is necessary for human salvation than to believe in Jesus as the Christ. Salvation in not for a particular race or for a particularly good kind of person. One need not even accept Jesus' self-definition, not even believe what Jesus says about Himself. It is enough to look at Jesus' total life - the loving, healing, reconciling quality of it, the quality of sacrificial giving - and trust it. From this point forward no person need ever despair of salvattion. There is room for all, ant it is God's will that all shall follow and find their ultimate home in Him.
Peace,
OKBob
Behold, there are two ways, two truths, and two "lifes".
1) There is the way, the truth, and the life of the world: defined by selfishness, greed, money, sex, etc. It is a seductive entrance into the darknesses of the world in which we live. The more we have the more we want .... there is no ending to our wanting, and to our accumulating!
2) There is the Way, The Truth, and the Life which speaks of self-emptying (or perhaps better: self-forgetting), through which we enter abundant life which is a life of perfect service. Our relationship with Jesus is more than faith, it is an active engagement with him in this world. To live in him is to be about his ministry in the world. Simply to say "I believe ..." and not seek to help transform or reconcile the world to God is to betray ones faith.
The aftermath of Littleton, the crosses on the hill side speak of the deep faith of the mourners, who recognizing the pain of the assassins, have asked for their forgiveness .... behold, they not only have understood this passage they are living it.
tom in ga
Three thoughts:
1) I have a three year old son, going on four shortly. Every time he gets his "Sesame Street" magazine he goes straight through to the maze. There's always gotta be a maze. For the first year of his life or so, I had to do it all for him, holding his finger, trying to get him a sense of where we want to be going ... getting the boy home.
After a while he wanted to do it himself ... he's a quick learner. I might point out the boy and point out the home and start him on the right path and he'd realize that the shortest distances between two points is a staight line and cross over the fences, lines, rocks, or trees to get to the end. And, he'd look at me, excited that he'd found the way. And I'd be excited for him. He got the boy home.
Now, he's a little better at it. Whatever the age-appropriate maze, he can do it. He can get the fisherman the salmon, he can help the girl find her dog, and he can get the boy home. Sure, he sometimes veers off the suggested, even truthful, route. But he get's there. And I look at him with loving eyes, happy that he made it home.
Some view the way of salvation as an intricate maze, with barriers of Christology, eschatology, speaking in tongues, community involvement, personality, and choice of listening music. And, it's been made clear from this site that Scripture doesn't leave our faith boundary-less. It's still a journey ... getting from here (this life) to there (eternal life with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- and thank God for the Spirit along the way). But a lot of those boundaries are a little unclear and we probably have crossed a few of the clear lines ourselves. And still our Father will look at us with a smiling face, happy that we make it home to him.
2) A professor told me once: "It may not be Christian to be universalist, but it is definitely not Christian to not want to be."
3) When asked who get's to go to heaven I answer, "Let me tell you what I know. I know that those who believe in Jesus Christ have found the way. I know that. About other faiths, I don't know. But I know that we have a merciful and loving God, who died for us all ... no matter what religion."
Thanks for all of the discussion. I have used this site a couple of weeks now ... if not to come away with an illustration then to keep me focussed on the texts and the many ways God speaks through them.
JD in AK
"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me.” And so we do believe . . . and Jesus’ words to Philip hit home with expectation: "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me?” There comes a time when we must claim what (Who) we know and then live like it.
Jesus encouraged his disciples to look back at what they already had learned from him and had seen him do. And he was calling them, through faith in himself as the revelation of God, to do greater works than he had done. And so it is graciously with us.
ml in pa
Some developing thoughts on the text:
1. "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me. The situation of the last supper. 2. In my Father's house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? Gk. word for "dwelling places" is that used for temporary stays at community road houses. The situation is the Johannine community's anxiety over their security; their place. Suppose this does not mean future heaven. Suppose it means that Jesus' death & resurrection prepares hundreds of house churches so that wherever they travel, they will have a place. They need not fear.. 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. When the followers arrive at the "places" they will find Jesus' spirit already there waiting for them! 4. And you know the way to the place where I am going." Jesus has just offered the last supper and the foot washing. 5. Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?" 6. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Early Christianity is called "the Way". This is not dogma, but a path and a relationship. What is the way of Jesus? What is the truth of Jesus? What is the life of Jesus? Isn't it that ". . . you love one another. Just as I have love you. . . " (13.34) This is believing in the sense of relationship. Through Jesus who has just washed the disciples feet and shared his body and blood. They're turn is coming. (See 13:36-7). 7. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him. This is how God is known, in the world, living and walking with Jesus. 8. Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Would you rather see God or walk with God? What would really satisfy? 9. Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10. Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. Believe God because of the evidence of love in the community. 12. Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father. The church! 13. I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14. If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it. Not as in a magic word, but as acting in solidarity with Jesus, asking while acting with Christ. Jesus is practice. God is practice
DC in RI
Juxtaposing John 1:9 ("The true light, which lightens everyone, was coming into the world") with 14:6 ("No one comes to the Father except through me") makes an interresting balance. The logos enlightens "everyone!" However, on a more particular level, and we're all particular, Jesus reveals God the Father. Perhaps an incipient trinitarian theology is expounded upon in John, and if that is the case perhaps Jesus' revealing of the the Father and the giving of the Spirit after Jesus departure is a teaching of "Jesus," a teacher whom we follow as the way, truth, and life. However, in light of 1:9 perhaps not as exclusivistic as some may think, and not as broad as others may want. So much for my struggle with John 14:6. Any thoughts? Mark in Va.
O.K., I'm just thinking out loud here, but Jesus so often speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven, synonymous with "Kingdom of God," as being "at hand" or "close by" or "within you." Jesus doesn't dwell on an "other worldy" heaven, even perhaps as much as we would like him to.
He is always speaking of our present journey and how he can nurture us in our walk on the road to abundant life.
I know this Gospel is so often used at funerals because we tend to see the phrase "many rooms in my Father's house" as pointing to the afterlife and heaven. But must it necessarily be so? Could this be our need more than Jesus' need?
I read somewhere (Anchor Bible?) that the word for "rooms" really means a "resting place" or "inn" along the road. As Jesus disciples sat, somewhat confused, after the re-interpretation that Jesus gave to the Paschal Meal, did they look bewildered . . . did they wonder how they fit into this scheme . . . were they even possibly intimidated by the Jesus who could do everything well?
Is this why Jesus says, "do not be troubled." When he says, "There are many rooms in my Father's house," could he be saying, "there is room for all of you in this journey, in this work of the Kingdom. "Father's house," is a middle eastern saying for "with the Father." So could Jesus be saying, "Don't worry, there's room for all of you in this journey, in this work. Don't worry you will all fit in, I need all of you. My Father will be with you and I will always prepare the way, I will always be sure that there will be enough places for you to rest along the way . . . I have made the preparations. I will help to take you there . . . I will be with you to the end of the age."
So maybe Jesus has this grand building expansion plan in mind . . . making room for all sorts and types of people. But dont' we sometimes try to build walls in the rooms, making them smaller and smaller by our own pettiness and our own unwillingness to bend in the name of love?
Is there something to this?
WJA in California
Bruce Goodrich was being initiated into the cadet corps at Texas A & M University. One night, Bruce was forced to run until he dropped, but he never got up. Bruce Goodrich died before he even entered college. A short time after the tragedy, Bruce's father wrote this letter to the administration, faculty, student body, and the corps of cadets: "I would like to take this opportunity to express the appreciation of my family for the great outpouring of concern and sympathy from Texas A & M University and the college community over the loss of our son Bruce. We were deeply touched by the tribute paid to him in the battalion. We were particularly pleased to note that his Christian witness did not go unnoticed during his brief time on campus." Mr. Goodrich went on: "I hope it will be some comfort to know that we harbor no ill will in the matter. We know our God makes no mistakes. Bruce had an appointment with his Lord and is now secure in his celestial home. When the question is asked, 'Why did this happen?' perhaps one answer will be, 'So that many will consider where they will spend eternity.'" Our Daily Bread March 22, 1994
It is incomprehensible to me that any Christian clergy could go to the side of a terminally ill person approaching death, who is feeling the crying need inside to make peace with their maker, and have the pastor respond, "Don't worry about it, everybody goes to Heaven, believer or not!" To me, that is spiritual neglect, no, abuse of the worst sort. In addition, it turns the death of Jesus on the cross, for our sins, into a needless act of parental abuse, as well. I am proud to say Jesus Christ died for my sins on the cross, and yes, it does make a difference if I believe and acknowledge that! revup
"No one comes to the Father but by me" says Jesus. But Jesus didn’t say that you have to know that!!! Surely countless people have had an encounter with the Creator God without ever hearing of Jesus, and just as surely it was the Spirit at work, the Spirit of Jesus. Surely God is a bit bigger than the unreal limitations we so readily put in place.
The way of Jesus is the way of self offering. His immediate way in this Sunday’s reading is the part that leads to crucifixion and death. The way of the christian is also that way of self offering, often a painful way. When we do offer our self to another, then we discover God’s presence in the encounter. So there it is, Jesus has prepared the place for us at his side on the way, where he has met us in that other person. There are indeed many, many rooms or places on the way of self offering.
This reading may well be a comfort for the bereaved, but it surely also is a word of strength and encouragement for the living, especially those facing the fear of future as those disciples certainly were.
JP in Vic.
My heart had not been wise in choosing men to love. Only in the middle of my middle age did it dawn on me that I was attracted to men whose potential I could see, but whose life would mostly turn into a project for me. I had to resign from potentials and project work. because when it was time for me to have a resting place, when it was needful to have a welcoming place to catch my breath, it could not be found in the project. There was no room.
Once I had truly observed this habit of my heart, two things happened almost simultaneously. First, our Bible study began the Psalms. During the second session, we read Psalm 4...a psalm with which I thought I was acquainted...but which suddenly seemed to have flood lights turned on it: "Answer me when I call, O God of my right! You gave me room when I was in distress. Be gracious to me, and hear my prayer. How long, you people, shall my honor suffer shame? How long will you love vain words, and seek after lies? But know that the Lord has set apart the faithful for himself; the Lord hears when I call to him. When you are disturbed, do not sin; ponder it one your beds, and be silent. Offer right sacrifices, and put your trust in the Lord. There are many who say, "O that we might see some good! Let the light of your face shine on us, O Lord!" You have put gladness in my heart more than when their grain and wine abound. I will both lie down and sleep in peace; for you alone, O Lord, make me lie down in safety." (NRSV)
"You gave me room when I was in distress" was a line I was sure I had never before heard or seen. The experience of God as the experience of being given room when in distress...my, my.
The second event in the very same time was a first date. This very tall bald guy and I met for lunch...and as the uneasiness of the first minutes wore off, he relaxed, stretched out that lank frame in the booth, uncrossed his arms and was simply listening to me. I felt so welcomed.
I left that lunch knowing I had met someone very different . The only way I could describe the difference to friends was to say that 'there was room for me.' There was a spaciousness which welcomed. Over the months, my own lack of trust was worn away. That spacious guy just kept saying, "You don't have to listen to or believe what I say. Just watch what I do." I did.
Exactly a year after that first date we married. "You have put gladness in my heart."
Regarding Sunday's text, I am hearing Thomas' question differently this year--with the sorrows so close at hand. I am hearing "How CAN we know the way?" as a pleading, as a truth-from-the-heart question. How, How, How? Almost as a lamenting, Why, Why, Why? "Answer me when I call, O God of my right! You gave me room when I was in distress. Be gracious to me, and hear my prayer."
Intellectual capacities, much as I relish the life of the mind, don't always bring peace or comfort. So far, we haven't been intellectually capable of fixing anything of the harm. What has sustained the sorrowing is that God's community has gone together to the room prepared for those in distress.
M.Borg talks about the implication of saying "I believe" in the Apostles Creed. For some of us, pure intellectual assent to all being confessed is not yet possible; but we can more honestly say, "I give my heart to..." the God named in the creed. The insight of my middle age, the floodlight on Ps 4, the lank guy listening, the way, truth, life, room, these all came as grace, as gift.
Does this stir something? lb
WJA, I think you’re on to something. We assume Jesus is talking about heaven when he speaks of his father’s house with many rooms, but I suspect it’s because the passage gets read at 80% of all funeral services. Such a reading doesn’t seem to fit John’s “realized eschatology”. What if God’s house (or mansion) is the church? (I would suggest that the house is the Kingdom of God, except the “Kingdom of God” doesn’t seem to play much of a role in John’s scheme of things.)
Anyhow, if Jesus isn’t talking about getting into heaven, but getting into the church, it would put a very different slant on the message.
We also need to remember that the Gospel according to John isn’t written about a historical person, but an Eternal Divine Logos, who was in the beginning, and through whom all things were created.
It is this divine, eternal, creative force through whom people come to God. It is this divine, eternal, creative force which is the way, the truth, and the life. Therefore:
The Bible is not the Truth (and neither are our creeds). The four spiritual laws are not the Way. Life doesn’t come from Dogma. It’s all found in this Divine Logos. Our churches [along with our very best intellectual understandings] are really counterfeit paths to God if we are not part of the divine, creative, force of the universe.
DR
I, too, think it is important, and necessary, that we read this text in the context of the Gospel According to John. John is so rich with layers of meaning pointing us to a deeper relationship with God. John points us away from law and into living, breathing, loving, deep relationship.
I hear Jesus assuring his disciples that it is going to be ok. Ok in the future. Ok right now. In fact things will actually be better when he, Jesus, is gone because of the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus does not say, I am the way to God. Jesus does say, I am the way to the Father.
ROG in NC
The following old story might fit the “many rooms” theme. I originally heard it in reference to Baptists, but since I stay away from put-down humor in my preaching, I have modified it. Still, my apologies to the Hittites.
A man dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter greets him at the door, and to help him get adjusted, takes him on a tour. After showing him the golden streets, angelic hosts, and the tree of life, they come upon a closed off area. Singing and shouting can be heard coming from inside. “What’s this?” asks the man. “Shhh. I’ll show you,” says Peter, “but you have to keep quiet.” Peter cracks the door and the new arrival peeks inside. A small group of people are singing hymns and praising God to their hearts content. They’re having a wonderful time. “Who are they?” asks the man. “Those are the Hittites,” says Peter. “They think they’re the only ones up here.”
There’s surely a room in God’s Mansion for those who think they’re the only ones in it. I’m thankful, however, that there’s more than one room.
DR
Behold, how can one have faith without love; how can one have love without acceptance; Christ came not to condemn the world but to bring the world home to him. My attempts of being the way fall into the dung heap - only God can see the intentions and desires of the heart. Jesus is our Savior and Lord whether or not we affirm that is so - Those of us who call ourselves Christian, need to let go of our judgmental ways, and leave it to God to contine his reconiciliation of the world. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life - behold this is a God who surrounds us on all sides. Remember, this is still Easter.
tom in ga
Behold, how can one have faith without love; how can one have love without acceptance; Christ came not to condemn the world but to bring the world home to him. My attempts of being the way fall into the dung heap - only God can see the intentions and desires of the heart. Jesus is our Savior and Lord whether or not we affirm that is so - Those of us who call ourselves Christian, need to let go of our judgmental ways, and leave it to God to contine his reconiciliation of the world. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life - behold this is a God who surrounds us on all sides. Remember, this is still Easter.
tom in ga
When we contemplate for whom the pearly gates open, let us not forget the words of our Lord,
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
(Matthew 5:3)
HW in HI
The issue of the true way to God is still something I struggle with. I tend to come down on the side that says, Jesus is the answer. But I don't see myself as being as doctrinaire as others. That is definitely not what this passage is about. It's about the disciples not being filled with their own troubled, fearful confusion over the things that Jesus had been telling them. It's a word of assurance to us - let us not be afraid. Let us see that this One we have followed and trusted isn't leaving us in the lurch. Understand that Jesus isn't leaving us in that maze! He's taking down barriers to God's mercy and love, and so should we! Researching this sermon, I came upon this quote in a Jonathan Edwards sermon on this text (remember "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" from high school English?): "There is mercy enough in God to admit an innumerable multitude into heaven. There is mercy enough for all, and there is merit enough in Christ to purchase heavenly happiness for millions of millions, for all men that ever were, or shall be. Let's not squabble. Like Paul, let us see in Edwards's words the golden opportunity to show all people "a more excellent way!" Ken in WV
I've listen to the L & C debate on this passage so long my eyes are sore. As any one of us ever done a word study of the sources for the words "except by me?" I've a very faint memory that in the Greek this word is inclusive of everyone not the exclusive that posits truth agains falsehood, narrow paths as opposed to wide ones. Mark in Canada
Dear Friends, I posted this in the discussion page, and I thought I'd paste it over here as well since it relates to your debate very well:
I have been reading the various postings on the Scripture page this week with great interest. I am a seminarian currently taking a course on Christology, and as you well know, we are pouring over these very issues. The April Theological Dialogue on The Resurrection has also been very interesting. One of our required texts is a book edited by Dennis L. Okholm and Timothy R. Phillips entitled Four Views on Salvation in a Pluralistic World. John Hick represents the pluralist view, in which those religions involving a “transformation of human existence from self-centeredness to God...” are salvific; Clark H. Pinnock argues the inclusivist view, in which God “can use positive aspects of other religions and a variety of other elements -- specifically, the conscience, the human religious quest, angels, social interaction -- as a means of grace. . . Perhaps some believers will receive an explicit knowledge of Jesus Christ and the basis of their salvation only later, after death.”; The particularist View -- post-enlightenment approach is presented by Alister E. McGrath, which recognizes that the more one examines other religions, such as Buddhism, against Christianity, the more on finds profound differences. McGrath is “agnostic, yet optimistic, regarding the unevangelized, insisting that God cannot be frustrated by human failure.”; In light of the importance of this issue, I would like to recommend that this be a future topic for our Theological Discussion Site. Thanks, Joe in OH
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Many write to decry the narrowness of those who read these words literally.
Someone says that Jesus is not the way to God but is the way to the Father (huh?).
Others use New Age-speak and come up with mystical interpretations that mean... well... whatever one wants it to mean.
Someone writes about Stephen's anti-semitic 'speech' over on the other forum and effectively diminishes his martyrdom.
Others complain about the espousing of doctrine (while articulating their own 'enlightenment' and 'liberation' and 'universalist' doctrine quite confidently).
Do these thoughts represent the wider church? I would like to think that the answer is no.
As unpopular as it might be to say so, I'd like to express my disappointment in some of what I've read here this week. Oh there are some great illustrations and some sampling of more orthodox thought (thank God) sprinkled throughout the posts but there is much here that can only be described as secular humanism masquerading as Christian thought, wayward thinking motivated by good intentions but devoid of Biblical orthodoxy. In the mean time, the mainline church flounders and committees are appropriated to determine why.
The church is infiltrated by false teachers, false prophets, and false doctrine but it's politically incorrect apparently to point it out. I'm pointing it out.
Come quickly Lord Jesus...
Rick in Va
A church filled with “New Age-speak” and “mystical interpretations”, with people espousing ‘enlightenment,’ and ‘liberation,’ and ‘universalistic’ doctrine. Secular humanism masquerading as Christian thought, wayward thinking without orthodoxy, all in a church infiltrated by false teachers, false prophets, and false doctrine! Whew!!!
It must be a very sad thing to see the Church (and this discussion) in this way. Really.
Is there any comfort in the message: Don’t let your heart be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in Christ. In God’s house there are plenty of rooms.
Maybe it’s OK?
DR
Yes Rick, it is rather terrible to have people take a simple statement like "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through me," and twist, turn and reverse it's meaning because sometimes Jesus asks us to accept the difficult things. Like Him as God. ("I and the Father are one.") Someone out there doen't even realize God and the Father are One. Yes, we threw God out of the schools and all hell is breaking loose in them. And some people sit and ask "Why?" We threw out God for the politically correct, now we throw Him out of the church for the same reason. (We may offend someone!) Jesus said he came to bring not peace, but a sword. Some are throwing Jesus and God out of the church, as well as the schools. And then they ask why their pews are emptying and their pastors are committing sexual sins with parishioners. Any statistical review shows the churches that are growing are the ones preaching the Word as it was meant, not as it was bent.
Maybe this will help ...
Jesus bringing us home to the Father, going ahead to prepare the way, is like us being invited to spend a weekend with a friends family; or being invited to a family reunion, maybe even like going to meet your girlfrinds parents for the first time.... We are not really family, there is no real reason for us to be there, but because our friend has invited us, his/her family will at least be cordial and polite to us. They WILL accept us at least temporarily simply because we are the guest of their (child). They may think that we are strange, and we they as well. But As we get to know and to be known, they and we feel comfortable having us around. By the end of the weekend, we almost feel as thought we belong. (Though some of my daughters "boyfriends" never got that far!) Ron in IN
One more pastor's perspective on "...way, truth, life: I believe Jesus said, "All who come to the Father, come through me. (No matter what language, culture, set of religious symbols, beliefs, creeds, etc. - no matter what they call me [a rose by any other name...] all come through me: the compassionate, flesh and blood expression of God who meets us where we are [no matter how low], in other words, you can't reach 'the father' by your own efforts, good works, right religion, etc." The most stunning verse in this passage, "You know the way..." "No we don't!" (said Phillip and most of us) "Yes - you do. I am the way. The way is, by God's compassionate grace, right in front of you.
Does anyone realize that it is the "Greek Orthodox Christians" (Serbs)who are doing the ethnic cleansing in Kosovo?
Rick in VA, I am disturbed by you. You desperately and childishly want to be one of the chosen. I love you for that. But your heart is also filled with hate and arrogance. Where does that come from? Do you really believe that our Beloved Christ intended such an exclusive club in eternity? And if so, which "believers" get in? Only the Orthodox (you made reference to an orthodox view of the Bible)? Is faith in Christ the only "litmus" test? Does Scripture anywhere say that such faith must be validated before the resurrection of the dead? Is is so hard for you to love? Must you bar the gate? I will pray for you that you may open your heart. Christ came because God loves the world. God loves you, Rick. But you would have made a fabulous Pharisee!
Paul in SC
Remember, gang, that the earliest Christian church was called "The Way" Christians defined themselves as the "followers of the way" -- followers of Jesus (living as he lived, caring as he cared and emulating his relationship with 'the Father') If we add the sense of Truth = Torah, and the nature of our lives, lived in preparation for eternal life, there is openness. Jesus is not closing doors, but openning to us the opportunity to - as Harrell Beck used to say - "Practice the religion of Jesus, rather than the religion about him." Peace: ogremtb in PA
I thank all of you for your contributions, but I must say it is sad to see today's preachers quickly take the perspective that this text is only about the theological discussion of the Jesus being the "way".
As I read this text I hear Jesus comforting his followers in the midst of the confusion and turmoil. This comfort comes from believing in God/Jesus.
The style of the author is to set up Jesus with specific questions from the two disciples. And each time Jesus' response is very comforting and pastoral. And in the scond response, to Philip, Jesus even points out that if one does not believe what they hear that they should look and His acts/works.
The author is again stressing that Jesus and God are one. John 1
Rather than being a text used for human beings to decide who is saved and who is not, I believe that this text is about the knowledge of God is solely through the person, life and works of Jesus. This is about relationships, not separation.
California Dreamin.
To Rick in Va. Who determines who's "orthodox?" And to make matters worse those who apparently are not "orthodox" have their thoughts infused with "secular humanism." I'm glad all judgment is left to God and not those who define the boundaries that only God defines. One way to silence another is to say: "Not orthodox" or worse, "Secular humanist." I hope we're beyond such name calling. Mark in Va.
Thank you for the Harrell Beck quote, "practive the religion of Jesus, not the religion about him." Wow! what great discernment. Thanks, friend in Pa. Manzel
Rick in Va et al I just reviewed the "guidelines for posting." I should have read them before my last entry. I apologize and ask your forgiveness for not adhering to the rules or the spirit of this forum. I'll stick to the text from now on. Paul of SC
Boy, Rick in VA is a pistol, isn't he?! But I can understand his concern to keep the teachings of Christ pure. Jesus himself said in John 8:31,32 that "holding to his teachings" and preaching and teaching them to his Church on earth is a mark of true discipleship. And believe it or not, Rick in VA is also correct in pointing out the possibility of false prophets in the church. Check out Matthew 7:15-23 from the mouth of Jesus. Check out Matthew 25 and Jesus' warning about false "Christs" (vv23-24). Do not pastors have the job of showing the right "Way, Truth, and Life" which is in Jesus Christ? Doesn't that also mean pointing out the wrong ways, truths, and lives" at the same time? Okay, maybe Rick in VA doen't sugarcoat words. But I do beleive his desire is the same as yours: "to do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who CORRECTLY HANDLES THE WORD OF TRUTH" (2 Timothy 2:15). As long as we are in the business of "Handling God's Word," let's make sure we are correctly slicing it properly! After all, God's Word is the SOS: Scalpel Of Salvation. It contains Law and Gospel. Law to Show Our Sin (SOS). Gospel to Show Our Savior (SOS). Preach em both and preach em' correctly!
Let's keep our words classy yet not be afraid to be clear and to the point. Our little computer "reputations" are not the issue. The pure Word of God is at stake.
Dubby in Topeka
She's only been in our family for two weeks. The first four years of her life she was abused and neglected by the very people who should have loved and protected her. The next three years she lived in five foster homes. Now, at age seven, she has come halfway across the USA to her "forever family" With her twinkling brown eyes looking out from her cinnamon colored skin out new biracial daughter asked me what I would be doing this afternoon. When I replied that I had to finish my sermon for tomorrow she said, "Just tell them that God loves everybody, a whole lot, that's the most important thing for everybody to know." I thank God that in spite of all she has been through she has experienced His love and knows there is a place for her in His kingdom. Not only her, but her older Hispanic sister who's been in our family for nine years and the Mexican teenager who visits every week and her new cousin, my blond haired blue eyed neice and . . . maybe even all the other MULTICULTURAL FAMILIES.
viajera
Having read almost all of the lection responses on each of the lessons and seeing the great continual debate on who is right or wrong. It seems to me the Cornerstone that is so precious and that causes such stumbling is this..."FORGIVENESS". Oh for the church to hear and receive it's greatest gift to a hurting world. spray in la
This is a very late contribution, so it isn't likely to be read. However, I feel compelled to reply to this confusion. I am saddened by the argumentation that I find here. I am inspired by much of it and confused by some of it. I just read the comments about worshipping Jesus and it struck me as very strange. I have attended Christian Churches for my entire life (43 yrs) and have always thought that I was worshipping God. The phrase "worshipping Jesus" doesn't fit with my experiences. I am not disputing the divinity of Christ or any other doctrine here, just pointing out that Jesus, The Way, is surely my teacher, my guide, my strength, my savior, but God is my creator, my parent, my sustainer, the one whom I worship. And by the way, If this sounds like mush to you, I truly prefer Cream of Wheat! Lovingly, Pam in San Bernardino