This lesson of the peaceable kingdom is linked with a Gospel pericope predicting war, earthquake, famine & plague .... and while that Gospel vision is getting a good deal of discussion, there is not one posting here. Perhaps, given the current state of affairs (9/11, Afghan war, AA 587 crash) that is understandable, but what else can we draw from the fact that we are drawn to the more disturbing vision of the future?
Blessings, Eric in KS
This is the vision of hope to which we must testify. The ridiculous but persistent promise that even while the Pentegon, Lower Manhatten, and now Rockaway are rubble, even while our hearts are tattered from grief and twisted in fear, even while bin Laden is our enemy... Behold... I am about to create a new thing. The former things shall not come to mind. Faith is holding on to the trust that in time this rubble shall not come to mind, and lions and lambs shall be keeping each other warm. SQ in CT
The wolf and lamb will lie down, the lion will graze with the oxen. The snake will "bite the dust".
I'm wrestling with this week's Isaiah passage.
What does it mean to be a "sanctified" wolf? The serpent (s?) will bite the dust, but the wolves are still around... just redeemed. I really doubt that God was thinking of the Myers Briggs and typing church members, but what's this mean? And what are the implications for Christians and the Church?
What does a redeemed wolf look like?
Lions, lambs, oxen, and wolves all hanging out in the Kingdom of God. I think the current popular image of being a Christian is that you "get saved" and have to start acting like a lamb. I would go as far as to say that an analogy most people would use to discuss Xian Perfection - God eventually makes sheep out of all those wolves.
Thoughts? I'm really fascinated by this and its implications, not just in this sermon, but in ministry.
EX: The cunning and wiliness of wolves is something that's often criticized when displayed by church members. Should it be, if it's (can it / should it be) used to benefit the Kingdom?
Let me know what you think.
To "Unsigned"
Hmmmm.... a sanctified wolf... ??? While we often get (or give) the impression that being saved means becoming a lamb (sheep and lamb images abound scripturally), a wolf remains a wolf. You raise a good curiosity. I wonder what the subtle difference is between changing something/someone's NATURE in getting saved, and in changing its FORM. It seems that salvation changes our nature, but not our form.
You've got me thinking...
Sally in GA
My friend works at a Humane society, she has about 6 cats A while ago she adopted a rabbit. It is amazing to me that the cats just sit around looking at the rabbit as something too unusal to comprehend. My hunter cat, would be sitting around drooling! Maybe the sheep are no longer familiar fodder for the wolves because our actions are too different. Just a thought Nancy-Wi
Sanctified Wolves.
I heard a sermon by Brian Blount that turned the our conventional metaphors upside down. The wolves are the mature in faith: strong, fierce, and aggressive. In the kingdom, the wolves feeding alongside the rest of us unsettle us and keep us moving--we who are mindless, weak, and sheepish. Consequently, there is peace and prosperity in the kingdom because the Church is no longer passive in the midst of injustice.
DSS
I have often heard this text referred to as "the peaceable kingdom". I always thought it meant that the lion and the lamb were no longer the natural enemies we presume them to be. In God's realm, they are unlikely bedfellows, but live together in peace. The snake is unable to live God's way of peace, and therefore bites the dust.
SueCan
in the Lord's Prayer we pray thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I get great comfort from Is. 65:24 "before they call I will answer, while they are yet speaking I will hear." Things may/will look different in God's "upside down kingdom" (lions and lambs together). But in the midst of all this trouble, God is not caught by surprise and our answer is already on the way and has already come (in Christ Jesus). Will we let this "new" kingdom come in us, in this earth.
b.f.
in the Lord's Prayer we pray thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I get great comfort from Is. 65:24 "before they call I will answer, while they are yet speaking I will hear." Things may/will look different in God's "upside down kingdom" (lions and lambs together). But in the midst of all this trouble, God is not caught by surprise and our answer is already on the way and has already come (in Christ Jesus). Will we let this "new" kingdom come in us, in this earth.
b.f.
For the musically-inclined:
The late composer Randall Thompson has an a cappella oratorio called "The Peaceable Kingdom." In it, he chose to include the disruption, murder, mayhem, and destruction of the old kingdom, to include the brutality of the human world - especially for the people of God who do not uphold their side of the covenant, "Woe unto them that draw cords of vanity and sin as it were with a cartrope, woe unto them that call evil good and good evil, that put darkness for light and light for darkness ..." and "Howl ye, for the day of the Lord is at hand." I think Thompson was onto something. And, being such a skilled text painter, he wrote it a cappella on purpose: dare I interpret from him that humans need no help from instruments or anything else in calling darkness for light and light for darkness? It's about our human relationship with God - no embellishments. Before victory comes an upheaval, before peace often comes war, and before salvation comes judgment, before new life comes death. Thompson, I think, was trying to illustrate just how tumultuous salvation can be. We could do well to remember that.
Sally in GA (a music store with a good classical selection should have a copy if you're interested in hearing it)
Eric, you were wondering about the connection between the peaceable kingdom and the destruction of the gospel lesson. I'm thinking about whether or not some destruction is necessary for a new creation? Does the old have to be destroyed before the new can come? (Don't know the answer to that question)
DGinNYC
DG asked "Does the old have to be destroyed before the new can come?"
I gave a qualified answer to this question in the Gospel discussion for this week, where DG also put the questiion. Take a look.
Blessings, Eric in KS
To DGinNYC from JGinWI
The answer to your question is John 12:23-25.
Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. (NIV)
It's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.
I've seen a few programs where people show off their opulent houses - the "things" they own and, granted, have worked hard to obtain (in some cases). One thing I never hear them talk about is how grateful they are.
We've seen ongoing tragedy in our country, but I think the image that grips me is the picture I saw of citizens of Kabul escorting northern alliance troops into the city after the Taliban fled. They were thankful after years of oppression. I saw the aid workers who were rescued. They were thankful.
We've all seen it. Why can't be believe it? The flower of gratitude grows best in the barren soil of pain, anguish and loss.
The weed of greed grows in lush, rich, fertile soil.
God's ways are not our ways.
To DGinNYC from JGinWI
The answer to your question is John 12:23-25.
Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. (NIV)
It's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.
I've seen a few programs where people show off their opulent houses - the "things" they own and, granted, have worked hard to obtain (in some cases). One thing I never hear them talk about is how grateful they are.
We've seen ongoing tragedy in our country, but I think the image that grips me is the picture I saw of citizens of Kabul escorting northern alliance troops into the city after the Taliban fled. They were thankful after years of oppression. I saw the aid workers who were rescued. They were thankful.
We've all seen it. Why can't be believe it? The flower of gratitude grows best in the barren soil of pain, anguish and loss.
The weed of greed grows in lush, rich, fertile soil.
God's ways are not our ways.
Who wrote this:
"The flower of gratitude grows best in the barren soil of pain, anguish and loss. The weed of greed grows in lush, rich, fertile soil."
It's great. I plan to use it -- I'd like to give credit.
Blessings, Eric in KS
To Eric in KS from JGinWI
It's semi-original. The first part is similar to something Max Lucado wrote in _The Applause of Heaven_. The latter is totally original. You can say it was a guy on the internet if you like... or my e-mail is The-Graffs@wi.rr.com.
Peace.
Reckonings
When I read this, I hear Auld lang syne in my mind,should old acquaintaince be forgot AND NEVER BROUGHT TO MIND. For me this is a passage of transformation rather than just destruction of old ways of living, doing, being. We are called to be a people with transformative faith. Can God actually transform this world, us, who have turned away? Yes he can destroy, but the greater power is God's ability and patience to transform. Building a new house is much easier than restoring an old. But what has more grandure than a restored house. Though he has been tempted otherwise,God chooses restoration even as it is costlier and filled with infinitely more headaches.
Our society is such a disposable society, perhaps because it is "cheaper" now days to throw away and buy new than repair. Electronics, cars and even homes in some areas are disposable. How often does this thinking move into our conception of the world, of the poor the sick the homeless? It is so easy to throw up our hands and claim, there is just too much illness and poverty etc. to do anything about it, cant we just start again? Or more often, just look away.
Some have a transformation faith. Mother Teresa, and other missionaries all over the world see not the hopelesses of the masses, rather the transformation one child, one person at a time.
When this transformation occurs, there will be no memory of the way things used to be. The suffering, the pain, the separation that sin is, "will never be brought to mind," such is the true peace, such is the ability of God to forgive, transform and restore.
Apolloguy in Tx
Reckonings
When I read this, I hear Auld lang syne in my mind,should old acquaintaince be forgot AND NEVER BROUGHT TO MIND. For me this is a passage of transformation rather than just destruction of old ways of living, doing, being. We are called to be a people with transformative faith. Can God actually transform this world, us, who have turned away? Yes he can destroy, but the greater power is God's ability and patience to transform. Building a new house is much easier than restoring an old. But what has more grandure than a restored house. Though he has been tempted otherwise,God chooses restoration even as it is costlier and filled with infinitely more headaches.
Our society is such a disposable society, perhaps because it is "cheaper" now days to throw away and buy new than repair. Electronics, cars and even homes in some areas are disposable. How often does this thinking move into our conception of the world, of the poor the sick the homeless? It is so easy to throw up our hands and claim, there is just too much illness and poverty etc. to do anything about it, cant we just start again? Or more often, just look away.
Some have a transformation faith. Mother Teresa, and other missionaries all over the world see not the hopelesses of the masses, rather the transformation one child, one person at a time.
When this transformation occurs, there will be no memory of the way things used to be. The suffering, the pain, the separation that sin is, "will never be brought to mind," such is the true peace, such is the ability of God to forgive, transform and restore.
Apolloguy in Tx
Previous:
Wow...I can't believe I'm the first one to submit something on this beautiful passage.
This is all about new beginnings. So often, I hear a combination of fear and excitement from the folks in the bible studies I lead. They're convinced that this is the worst of times...that the rapture is just around the courner...that armegedon will happen and Jesus will come.
I'm not convinced that this is the worst. 77 year olds are traveling in space....and returning envigorated!! Infant mortality rates are not only the lowest they've been (ok...only in the rich nations) but we have the capacity to be healthier than we ever have been before. The major powers of the world are trying peace. And everyone is looking ahead to the future.
....except maybe the church. We're slow for some reason. I like to think of God in this passage as a "concussion." When my husband had a bad bike wreck a few years ago...he couldn't remember anything for a few hours. Scary for me, but he thoroughly enjoyed himself. He didn't forget that he loved me and I loved him. He figured I was his wife, (even though he didn't remember my name). He didn't remember what he was worried about right before his head hit the sidewalk. He didn't remember his tendency toward cynicism. It was all gone. And he just enjoyed it.
I'm not saying that we must completely wipe out the past...tradition, ritual, doctrine...but if we let God -- God can get rid of the garbage to make way for the compelling vision that reshapes the memory.
The hymn "This is a day of new beginnings" will do nicely. We don't leave behind the folks we remembered on Nov 1, we just leave behind the guilt and grieving.
How does this vision compel us to live today?
It's like riding a donkey down the grand canyon. "Precipice of destruction, the pathway to peace." (Maybe tie in with Luke here.) It's scary and dangerous but absolutely magnificant.
Alane in the 4corners
I'm glad somebody else is as impressed by this passage as I am. I went to a lectionary study group this morning where it was skipped over a bit rather than discussed much. This is a good lead in to Advent (and to Christ the King Sunday) and there is a lot of promise here. There's a reminder that it is God who is starting the new beginning which might be appropriate for those of us who tend to think that the bringing in of the kingdom depends on us!
What a wonderful passage this is! I think it deserves some contemplation just because of its delightfulness. I'm planning to use it as a text this week to address some of the struggle of my congregation about the fragility of life and the problem of theodicy. The situation is this: Last Easter one of the active, 30-something young women in our congregation had a sudden stroke and died, leaving a husband and two young daughters. Her death hit the congregation hard. Now, this fall, a 33-year-old mother of two (again very active) has had a recurrence of breast cancer, which has metastacized (sp?) to her lung and bone marrow. Her prognosis is grave but not entirely without hope.
My challenge is how to let Isaiah speak not just to the exiles longing for Zion but to a congregation longing for wholeness and hope. How do I do that without sounding glib -- certainly there are not easy answers?
So far, what I have is a great quote from Jesuit Father Luis Espinal(courtesy of Reben Job's Prayers for Ministers and other Servants)
"There are Christians who have hysterical reactions as if the world would have slipped out of God's hands. They act violently as if they wer risking everything. But we believe in history; the world is not a roll of the dice going toward chaos. A new world has begung to happen since Christ has risen... Jesus Christ, we rejoice in your definitve triupm. . . with our bodies still in the breah and our souls in tension, we cry out our first "Hurrah!" till eternity unfolds itself. Your sorrow now has passed. Your enemies have failed. You are a definitve smile for humankind.. .. Take away the sadness from our faces. We are not in a game of chance. You have the last word!"
Father Luis was assassinated March 22, 1980 in LaPaz Bolivia by paramilitary forces. He wrote this meditation shortly before his death.
Is anyone else out there working with this passage this week? I'd love your insights.
Levfish in Kansas
As I have struggled with this text for this Sunday, I was struck first of all by its note of hope in what must have been a depressing time for the people of Israel/Jerusalem in particular. Imagine getting a "word" from God like this. I'm reminded of the old song "What a Wonderful World It Would Be". Well, in this case, God gives a glimpse of the reality that is in the process of unfolding.
Of course, for the "new heavens" and "new earth" to come into being, there is a great amount of change required, as some of the contributors have already alluded to. But "new wine" won't fit in "old wineskins". Change may be hard; it may be experienced as "loss" -- but change is a spiritual necessity (2 Cor. 5:17). The old must pass away before the new can come. I notice John Glenn chose not to return to space in Friendship 7, but a shuttle!
Maybe the issue facing us and our congregations is how are we able to face the changes necessary for God's Kingdom to be realized -- in us and the world?
I am reading this in from the perspective of the question of the coming Kingdom of God. Many would take that to be a future, eschatalogical event. Still others (I am currently reading Dallas Willard's "The Divine Conspiracy," which I find TREMENDOUSLY exciting, and he interprets it this way) see the Kingdom as something Jesus is trying to bring about in the here and now (in addition to the future). Is it fair to read the Isaiah text as something not just that God promises for the future, but as something God wants to bring about here and now, with US as agents of this change? Appreciate your reactions.
Matt in WA
I have written a hymn for this passage. Please feel free to use it (the tune is Mozart 7777). If you us it, please let me know at michael@cliffcrest.org
Heav'n and earth are made anew Through the work, O God, you do. Former things shall pass away, New beginnings start today.
Sing with gladness and rejoice, Praise God's goodness with one voice. See the new Jerusalem Where all thankful people come.
For the Lord we build a home; Blessings from the earth are grown. May our days be like a tree: Happy and contented be!
You who come the Lord to seek, God will hear before you speak. Even as the Lord you call, God will answer one and all.
Words©1995, Michael Jacob Kooiman
I jumped to Luke first, felt a sense of doom, went to Isaiah and heard a Word of Hope. Is the apocalyptic of Luke 21 linked closely to current events that we are uncomfortable? Am I hiding in the words of Isaiah's beautiful vision and not willing to let Luke give me a wake up call? All the comments on Isaiah have been helpful. I find it powerful to use in conjunction with Luke. I still have alot of work to make the connections. Here an initial thought: Can you live in the world with hope if you aren't involved in the struggle. The Psalms are expression of faith not from the mountain top but from the pit. As Brueggemann says, we live moving between the pit and the shelter of the wing. HOpe for our world is to identify with the suffering's and bring God's love to bear on that which is in need of restoration. Bobby, tx.
Just returned from Tn. Conference School of Ministry where speakers gave me a perspective on this passage:
Mel West said that we pray "thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." He posed these questions:"however you envision heaven, what are you doing to make it happen here? Do you think there is racism in heaven? What are you doing about it here? Poverty? What are you doing about it here? (add your own to the list... hunger, war, selfishness, materialism...). I think the key is to remember that God is what makes the new creation, the heaven on earth, happen -- but that we are also called to participate with God. Where are the places where people are building and living in their own houses (Habitat?), where people find long, fruitful life and enjoy their work, where the wolf and the lamb lie down together? We can join in and celebrate those places. Kay
I would like to second what the second contributor said: This passage is about God bringing the Kingdom, not us! Good thing, too!
Kay points us in a good direction, though. As one of my seminary profs was fond of repeating, "Our job as followers of Jesus is not to create the kingdom. Our job is observation and articulation."
We watch for it springing up wherever God brings it (even if it's not in the Church!!!), and we point to it and say, "Thanks, God!"
Ask not what you can do for God's kingdom. Ask what God has already done and is already doing, and then celebrate!
Rick in Canada, eh?
Rick,
I like what your professor said: "observation and articulation." Some years ago, Robert Raines wrote a prayer asking for "Easter Eyes." I think it was in a devotional book called "Lord, Could You Make It a Little Better" Maybe we need Easter Eyes to see the signs of the new creation (sorry, I have trouble with that "kingdom" language) in our midst. I.E., in light of the resurrection, we see the glimpses of the new creation as a foreshadowing (or, if you choose to use sacramental language a foretaste) of the completion of creation.
I am also intrigued by Bobby's question. Can you live in the world with hope if you aren't involved in the struggle? I suppose it is something of a rhetorical question, but I will have to ponder it a while in light of the struggle in my parish right now.
Thanks to everyone for their reflections.
Levfish in Kansas
ALANE: This is a much happier place to be than amidst the ponderous dissections going on under Thessalonians and Luke. I appreciate the great sermon illustrations some of you provide and I hope others don't scroll by them too fast. Thank you, Alane in the 4corners (1st comment above: Please give me your e-mail address at Trinity375@aol.com) and thanks, RevKK, for the "Meantime" (under Luke 21). Anne of Providence
Could you not tie the readings together? The Isaiah reading illustrates God's vision for the world, The epistle reading illustrates the need for hard, honest work to achieve it. The gospel illustrates that the work will be hard and a struggle. See where I am going with it? What do you think? Wendy in QC
Wendy, I think linking the scriptures will work here. Tell us more. I'm thinking of using at least Luke along with Isaiah. But, I'm always afraid to do that because of my seminary professor's criticism on combining scriptures. Still, I'd like to know how the rest of you do it.
Alane in the 4corners
Alane, I was thinking of combining the Hebrew, epistle and the gospel readings. I am hoping to show three things: God's vision for the world, God calling us into action, and a warning that we will face struggles because we refuse to conform to the present society-world. These three illustrate: God's love for us, God's plan for us and God's promise to walk and be with us. I plan to show hope in God's vision and the need for our ownership and particaption in the dream of building a new world with Jesus. Although this road is not an easy one, we find courage and strength in the knowledge that God is with us on our journey. This is a nice summary of the season of Pentecost. We have been challenged in many different areas of our spiritual journey. It wraps up the season and leads nicely into next weeks, Reign of Christ Sunday. Anyway, that is what I think I will be doing with it for it re-visits many of the issues we have addressed over the Pentecost season. Happy sermon writing. Wendy in QC
I used this text as the basis for a meditation in a seminary study group a few weeks ago. My angle, which I will modify slightly for my sermon, was as the church year rapidly comes to an end and we begin the Advent season- our lives are increasingly getting busy. We view time as a commodity of which there is never enough. Many of us may be at a point of breaking and need a word of grace. Where is our SEED OF HOPE (sermon title)? We are not alone in our strugle to keep our heads above water- Isaiah felt it as well. The pasage for Isaiah is a seed of hope needed to lift each of us up. Isaiah's words invite us to step out of our busy schedules for a few moments and sit in the fullness of God's new creation. Find refreshment in Isaiah's words. Consider what areas of stress in your busy schedules need relief. Ask yourselves how will you seek God in the midst of the days ahead? As we rush to get all the innumerable things done that we must do- we MUST take time to prepare our hearts and souls with the vision of new heavens and a new earth. We need to find our seed of hope in God's coming kingdom and the celebration of the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Prayer (from the 1998 Upper Room Discipline for 11/9/98): Dear God, slow each of us down so that the winds of activity do not blow away the seed of vision and hope. Amen. Rev Rhoda, Eastern Shore Maryland
Levish in Kansas: Yes, there is a sacramental dimension to this text as well as a word of hope.... Wendy in QC and Rev. Rhoda in Eastern Shroe, Maryland: Thank you both for showing the connection of the three readings. Wendy, you made very explicit (and beautiful) your prior outline of how the three texts relate....Alane in Kansas, why not attempt to bring the three readings together. Rhoda and Wendy have provided excellent illustrations....Rick in Canada, Yes, we are not pelagians (maybe, semi-pelagians), and yes, the vision of the kingdom is a grace!...Thanks to one and all!............Gregory in Dot, MA