Date: 17 Jun 2002
Time: 13:01:14

Comments

I am struggling with this text today, and wondering what message it brings to people in the two little villages where I serve. It seems a great contrast from the Genesis passage where a father is asked to sacrifice his beloved child, for whom he waited until he was over 100 years old, to the gospel text which proclaims a heavenly reward for anyone who gives even a cup of cold water to a thirsty child. What can I tell the congregation? I think I will use the contrast to show that our God is a God of love and compassion, wanting us to care for the children and each other, but that God is also a God who makes serious demands on us---demands for trust, faithfulness, obedience even when we don't understand what or why ... early thoughts.... RevJanet in CNY


Date: 19 Jun 2002
Time: 06:29:00

Comments

How do we explain some of the hardships that people experience? Are these demands put on us by the Lord? If so, why?

Phil in MT


Date: 23 Jun 2002
Time: 18:41:41

Comments

Some would see this story as a forecast of things to come. The heavenly father provides the sacrifice - the sacrificial lamb. We are called to have faith, not to earn salvation through our own sacrifice. PH in OH


Date: 24 Jun 2002
Time: 20:42:12

Comments

Abraham's Promise: Your descendents shall be more numerous than the stars! He had three very special visitors to tell him this. Last week's text showed us a celebration and a Father's worry about the sending away of an older son. God Reassures him to do so. That the younger son is the chosen way to these descendents. Now, Abraham is told that he must give up this promise. <p> How many of us have had a promise given, celebrated and then a threat of it being yanked away? Or even totally yanked away? <p> I think our people can relate to this passagein many different directions. I know we as pastors can. I think, this speaks to us first. <p> First, we recieve the call.Then, we enthusiatically pursue whatever denominational inquiring process we need to. Then as we sit in interview District Boards and recieve the grilling questions, the tearing down...We may wonder like, Abraham WHY? I thought I was called to this special office? I thought I was favored?I thought I had the promise? We may question as I am sure Abraham did...to ourself if nothing else...but we have to keep the faith! God is the God of Promises! Covenants throughout the scriptures with people then. <p> The Promise of God is Loving God. But as we study the scriptures deeper, we read God makes promises that do not seem loving--God Destroying cities and exiling peoples. and Revelation Promises of his wrath coming. <p> Some of our denominations tend to emphasize the God is Love, cosmic teddy bear view...But God has a wrathful, jealous side-- that's if we choose or not by non choice to not be about our Father's will... <p> Abraham could have chosen not to go the mountain and sacrifice is son. He could have mad a non choice and ignored God's instructions. What would have been the scenerio then? Would he have chosen someone else? Would he have taken away the annointing like King Saul to David? Lot's of possiblilities! <p> This passage is applicable to our lives We make choices and non choices everyday. When God ask us to make a sacrifice do we? Are we an obedient people? Are we a commited People? (If we were things things our rural small Churches would not be dying?) <p> God test: If He was going to use Abraham had test his worthiness, to make sure he was obedient, committed and in there for long haul. A test of Faith! And we have the advantage of knowing the rest of the Story as Paul Harvey says. Thing Tests, hardships, are enduring but worth it. (liken unto labor pains, the baby is the cherished prize) <p> yes...Like Job I am sure Abraham had questions...Like What is going on? I thought I had a promise? But, He was willing to step out of his comfort zone and go through...and God provided... <p> In our personal lives, we will overcome, conquer...perhaps in this life we won't see the results... or perhap it happens gradual and we see it over a lifetime, when we look back. However, just remember WE WIN! READ THE BACK OF THE BOOK! <p> God does not ask us to do anything He will not or Has not done himself! God the Father, did Sacrifice his SON on the old rugged cross for all of us! <p> So,what does this all mean? Abraham's promise...God test.... <p> Sums it up I think... Quote by Ghandi, " First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win!" Pastor Mary IN OHIO


Date: 25 Jun 2002
Time: 06:11:47

Comments

Several wonder why God tested Abraham (and, by extention, why God tests us). Naturally, God does not test us to find out about us since He already knows. I suspect God tests us so that WE find out about us. One preacher put it well. He asked the question, "Do you know what you're full of?" ... then he answered, "You're full of whatever comes out when you get jostled." Much truth there. Does someone cut you off on the freeway (you get jostled)? What comes out? Anger or love? That is what you're full of.

Abraham got jostled by God and here's what came out. (Yes these are the early thoughts of a perpetual alliterative 3-pointer; I can't help it.)

Out of Abraham came:

1) The PRIMACY of God. God was shown to be more important to Abraham than even his only son.

2) The PROMISE of God. Abraham said to his young men, "Stay here with the donkey; the boy and I will go over there; we will worship, and then WE will come back to you." (v. 5) Abraham believed God's promise (that his offspring would be named through Isaac).

3) The PROVISION of God. Abraham had never seen such a dramatic example of God's provision. Sometimes God takes away that which we need so we can learn to trust Him for it and see His faithfulness.

That's my early rantings.

JGinWI


Date: 25 Jun 2002
Time: 07:00:53

Comments

JGinWi,

I like your outline. In the first point I may talk about sacrifice. I read recently about how a hockey playing son thanked his parents for sacrificing so much for him to further his career (He has just been drafted into the NHL). This passage, however, makes us ask, not if we would sacrifice for our children but if we are willing to sacrifice our children, and to which god?

RG in Ontario


Date: 25 Jun 2002
Time: 07:06:55

Comments

JG, I love that quote about what we are full of! I will mention you when I use it. Thanx! tom in TN(USA) P.S., are you full of points? 3 fall out every time you write. HA! Love ya!


Date: 25 Jun 2002
Time: 12:33:15

Comments

Thanks for the encouragement, folks.

I just read a news story that speaks to the issue of sacrificing something you love for something you love more. Some of you may have heard of Pat Tillman (if you live in the US). He's a 4-year veteren of the NFL and a 2nd year starting defensive back for the Arizona Cardinals, or at least he was. He's chosen to leave the NFL and join the Army in the elite Rangers program.

Here's the story online.

http://www.uniontrib.com/sports/nfl/20020524-0810-fbn-cardinals-tillman.html

and a column

http://www.jsonline.com/lifestyle/advice/jun02/53555.asp

Sounds like it's about to become my opener (even though I'm a Packer fan).

JGinWI


Date: 25 Jun 2002
Time: 13:11:25

Comments

God does provide! Due to study leave, conferences and holidays, I haven't needed to write a sermon for a month and will not have to write another for 2 months. I was hoping for a scripture passage that would be a challenge and one I could realy sink my teeth into for this week. Be careful what you wish for! I have never liked this passage because. I have trouble squaring it with the God I beleive in. I do not beleive God tests us. I do believe how we respond to situations, whether good or bad, relates directly to our faith and how we percieve and relate to God. I also belief because we are so loved by God that that love demands a response. That response can often seem like or be a sacrifice. I want to challenge both myself and my congregations this week. I will not preach a God who sends bad things to test us. You have given me a good start. I'm gaining some new insights. Keep it coming. Thank you LGB


Date: 26 Jun 2002
Time: 06:43:50

Comments

What are we, our people willing to sacrifice to God? Do we trust that God really will provide?

Jonesey in WI


Date: 26 Jun 2002
Time: 13:44:37

Comments

Jonesey in WI

Only those who have the grace of sacrificing will ever know its joy. Can we communicate the joy of sacrifice? Yes, but only if we have it ourselves. If we have the joy that comes from sacrifice, we can communicate it. We need to lead our congregations into that joy, but to do so we have to be there first. That's what leadership is.

Peace,

JGinWI


Date: 27 Jun 2002
Time: 13:44:16

Comments

JG in WI, Well, Packer are okay! Go Broncos!!! Thanks for the jump start here. We keep using the word "sacrifice" and understandably. However, when I think of my husband, kids, grandkids--there is a lot of setting myself aside. Yes, it is sacrifice, but even the hard stuff is born of love and that makes all the difference. Not sure what that says, but it is where I am at this point in the week. Really appreciated your thought about who we are when we are jostled. Thanks and blessings! Again, Go Broncos!!! lp in CO


Date: 27 Jun 2002
Time: 17:57:33

Comments

JGinWI - You have made my day. I am adding one more thought under Provision - God not only provides - but does it abundantly! It was not just a mere lamb, but rather a full-grown RAM that God provided as the sacrifice. Also, as a point of interest in the study guide I was using it shared the difference in views between the Christian perspective and the Jewish perspective of this passage. Christian - sacrifice of Isaac; Jewish - binding of Isaac. Thanks DTMinNY


Date: 28 Jun 2002
Time: 05:49:33

Comments

"Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love..."

Sacrifice

So much of this story is left out for the "post" modern reader. What was Abraham thinking and feeling? How about ISSAC? As he walked up the mountain with his father...as he watched his dad build the altar and lay the wood on it that Issac had carried...and then to find himself tied up, the branches he'd carried digging into his back, with his father standing over him, drawing out the knife, grabbing ahold of his robe to keep him still as he raises the knife...

I remember being told in Seminary that we should not make inferences about the psychological state of Jesus because (1) it wasn't mentioned in the text; (2) all of the stories of Jesus were at least thirdhand (except perhaps the Gospel of John).

This homiletical detachment does not serve us well, and neither does it serve our congregants. However, the starkness of the story is heightened by leaving the inner thoughts and feelings out.

I wonder if these were left out to heighten anxiety and tension within the mind of the listener (What kind of God demands or does this? What kind of man was Abraham, whom we count among our Patriarchs? Are we to trust in this testing God to the same degree as our father Abraham???)

Reward

And then there's reward. For reasons I don't yet completely understand I am preaching on this and the Gospel text Sunday. I now realize the rewards Jesus speaks of do not accrue to the disciples but to those who hear the Gospel, welcome them and show them hospitality. There is reward also for them, in that when they are welcomed those doing the welcoming are welcoming Jesus and God Almighty.

Where does it lead? I'll let you know Sunday about noon, when I get back from church.

Da Rev in CT


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 06:04:30

Comments

God does not require sacrifice, but obedience. Abraham did not have to make the sacrifice, but he did need to be obedient and faithful. This is what is required of us. It is God who provides the sacrifice. Jesus died on the cross, the lamb of God making the sacrifice on our behalf. PH in OH


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 14:46:17

Comments

Sorry! Filed without IDing... it's Da Rev in CT again


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 14:46:36

Comments

Sorry! Filed without IDing... it's Da Rev in CT again


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 14:51:13

Comments

*sigh* One of these days I'll be able to do things electronic....

I think obedience springs from faith and trust (see The New Interpreter's Bible, V. 1, pp. 495-96.) Disobedience by Abraham would have shown a lack of trust, but God was playing a very high-stakes game.

Christ did sacrifice himself for all our sins, but isn't "take up your cross and follow me" a call for sacrifice?

Da Rev in CT


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 18:15:47

Comments

We translated this text in my Hebrew class this spring and it was so interesting to see how the names used for God progressed from the formal Elohim to the more personal Yahweh and finally to Jehovah Jirah - God the provider. God was fully involved in the story at the time of providing the ram. MW in West Arkansas


Date: 29 Jun 2002
Time: 20:43:23

Comments

I know this is coming late, but this passage has yet another meaning in our relationship with Muslim peoples: in the Qu'ran the son to be sacrificed is Ishmael. http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/MusTrad/sacrifice.html This passage troubles me as it has some others. When I see fathers abusing their children because "the children do not obey", I hurt. It is a very fine line we tread in this passage, as the question looms for me is this about obedience to God or obedience to our human father. The child asks: "Where is the lamb for a burnt offering?" Abraham says: "God will provide," knowing full well that it is this child, his son, he is to sacrifice. Then binds up his son and puts him on the wood on the altar. It does not say the son fought him, nor does it say he complacently let his father bind him. What must be going on in the child's mind, especially when he sees his father's knife in his father's hand coming at him? This is not the God I know. So where is God in the story. God may well have been in the ram in the thicket or in the face of the boy on the altar. Was this the story that said to Jesus thousands of years later, God no longer requires a burnt offering or human sacrifice? Some late thoughts that only leave me with more questions. ruraloracle in MB


Date: 30 Jun 2002
Time: 15:18:59

Comments

ruraloracle in MB: The New Interpreter's Bible commentary on this passage also notes how it has been used as a "pretext" for child abuse. But Abraham also bound Yahweh Yir'eh (Jehovah Jireh) not to harm Issac when he said, "God will provide." It's the equivalent of "hallowed be thy name" in the Lord's Prayer: Almighty God, vindicate your Name. Fulfill your Covenant promises. Do not take the life of my beloved son, upon whom your covenant promises rest. If Yahweh Yir'eh calls on us to obey out of trust and love, we too can call on Yahweh Yir'eh to be true to Yahweh's own divine nature.

I somehow managed to tie it all together along with the Gospel lesson. Or Jesus did, and I just took notes....

Hope all went well for you all this Sunday

Da Rev in CT