I'm starting early on this because I will be away next week leading a canoe camp in the Adirondacks. So I have to have something ready before I leave. I'm thinking about Jacob running away from Esau, looking for a geographic solution. Now, 21 years later, he finally has to come back and face his guilt and his fears.
But such a strange story! Wrestling with an angel! What's it all mean? There are so few clues in the text.
Anybody want to wrestle with me on this? Larry, cny.
Larry,
I don't think I want to wrestle with you so much as agree with you! This is a seriously perplexing text. It has long been a favourite of mine. Have I got it "figured out"? Hardly!!
Good question though -- "Who is the angel?" -- is this Jacob wrestling with his conscience? He's had a previous encounter with God in his profound vision of the Ladder, and he knows that God is, shall we say, highly interested in him as a person and a leader. Does his "chosen-ness" lead him to do a bit of a life-review and experience some shame at his past behaviour? So, is this a commentary on coming clean with God and self?
Why does he go away limping? Is this the writer's way of telling us that one never encounters God close-up-and-personal without being permanently changed?
In the movie "Forrest Gump", there's a scene where the embittered Vet (played by Gary Sinese)faces off with God in a storm that comes up while they are on the shrimp boat. I thought of Jacob and the angel when I saw that scene......I don't think this wrestling match at Jabbok was "neat"....Jacob at his truest, nastiest best -- finding himself beloved of God despite himself.
My own struggle continues as I ponder this one..........
Blessings, SueCan
Have you by any chance encountered "The Man Who Wrestled With God" -- a great little book by an author whose name eludes me at the moment. He does a great job of examining Jacob's "wrestle" in terms of his journey of self-discovery. I'm doing a lousy job of selling the concept here, but I'm on vacation and the mind dulls after a while ... a good thing! But I next preach on this text so thought I'd "check-in" ... I'll dig the text out and try to comment later. In the meantime, rumor has it SueCan is celebrating a birthday of note: Felicitations! I remember declaring 40 my "out of the wilderness year": and it was, in many ways! Hope it's a good one for you, as well. Blessings, Susan in SanPedro
Thanks for the birthday wishes Susan!
So far, 40 is feeling allright........even better on Aug 1 when I start my holidays!
"out of the wilderness" eh? Has some excellent potential........
Blessings, SueCan
Here's what I've got so far. Carolyn Brown in "Forbid them Not" describes this as a friendly wrestling match. We have a God who comes to our level, is not afraid to get down and dirty.
Von Rad explains many of the unanswered questions in the text by talking about the long process of formation. It's like a very old house. Many generations have worked on this text over several centuries. All the parts of it "do not form an organic whole or have an even connection with or relation to one another."
Brueggemann in Bill Moyers' "Talking about Genesis" sees Jacob undergoing strenuous "nighttime work." "During the day, he is able to manage and take initiative. But at night, as for all of us, jacob turns out to be vulnerable, and things rush powerfully beyond his control. His night is peopled by those uninvited and unwelcomed in his life. But they are the very ones with whom he has to come to terms, if he is to go home peaceably." " This narrative haunts us because we are tempted to remain daytime people, knowing and in control. The story bears witness that the crucial transformations in our identity and our faith happen at night, when we are vulnerable recipients."
Jacob, looking back on the experience, is surprised that he is still alive after having seen God. He's alive, but wounded. It ended with a blessing, even though God didn't grant his request to learn his name. It's a dangerous time for Jacob. Growth does not come easily. But in the end, he has a new name, an honorable name to replace the old dishonorable "heel grabber". Names are not just random sounds. They are important descriptions of character. Larry, cny
Sue in San Pedro, The book is "The Man who Wrestled with God" by John A Sanford, a Jungian Pschoanalyst and Episcopal priest who has written at least ten books on "Individuation". This is one of his first and has been revised. I'm sure you can get it form DPS online bookstore (I think) Sanford's writing has aided me as I have deal with the Genesis story. I have used Jacob as the shadow part of a whole person (twin Esau as the persona, and Jacob as the shadow) I have been dealing with one's shadow self, the hidden self encountering God. Today, the seven years of work which ended in his marriage to Leah was seen as out need to discover, analyze and reflect on our encounter with previent grace and our shadow. Last week, it was the Jacob as he encountered that grace,and next week as a wrestling with grace. The sermon series has benefited me, and I hope my congregation.
Shalom
Pasthersyl
Pasthersyl -- Thanks for the follow-up on Sanders: I not only remembered his name but found my dog-eared/coffee stained copy ... it once made for a great women's book study! I'm re-impressed with the way he integrates the psychological and spiritual quest ... giving a context in which what is often dismissed as "psychobabble" can be seen as yet-another tool for kingdom building. I'm off to Catalina now for the rest of my vacation: will "mull" these ideas and hope that a sermon will be waiting for me when I get back on Saturday! Blessings, ya'll! Susan in SanPedro
Here are some provocative questions, based on my readings, etc. With whom was Jacob wrestling? With himself? With Esau? With a stranger? With an angel? With a tempter? With God? With his past? With his future? The text only says "a man." Interest that it's undefined. For his part, Jacob seems to perceive that the man is either God or a representative of God. (Peniel, after all -- face of God) Hmm. God was in the wrestling. Not beyond it (as in, I'm having a tough time down here, God, could you help) or parallel with it (as in a compartmentalization of family issues, psychological issues, and finally spiritual issues) but within the wrestling itself. I've been thinking that the extended story of this curious family is a kind of midrash on Psalm 139: wherever you go, God is there. Seems this family stretches the envelope of where God can be, but there God is, again and again and again. Finally a selection from Mitch Albom's "Tuesdays with Morrie": 'Life is a series of pulls back and forth. You want to do one thing, but you are bound to do something else. Something hurts you, yet you know it shouldn't. You take certain things for granted,even when you know you should never take anything for granted. A tension of opposites, like a pull on a rubber band. And most of us live somewhere in the middle.' Sounds like a wrestling match, I say. 'A wrestling match.' He laughs. 'Yes, you could describe life that way.' So which side wins, I ask? 'Which side wins?' He smiles at me, the crinkled eyes, the crooked teeth. 'Love wins. Love always wins.' (p. 40 of Tuesdays with Morrie) Let me know if you use this quote! PJanssen@gateway.net
Oh, and some more thoughts: Is it possible that Jacob in this wrestling match finally becomes fully human? Grows up? Of course, after he's a grown-up, he limps. (I.e., growing up involves a growing down for this clever trickster)For those who want to go there, one might think of the Risen Christ walking with wounded ankles.
wrestling is not a major supportaround this neck of the woods the only wrestling I see is when isee someone with a name like killer kowoski on Tv yelling threats t o all comers. Wrestling is not something we as adult people normally go in for. Adult men in the circles that I move indo not wrestle.I suppose some might. Women unfortunately sometimes have to wrestle to protect themselves against men and often come off second best. They are often wounded and those wounds they carry for the rest of their lives at least psychologically. This is not true coffessions time but I do have a story. When I was about 15 I was at a boys boarding school . One of my very best mates, I only had two ,was a boy from Carrothool. down on the Murrumbidgee River. We would often hang around and do things together. Friends right through high school..we were closer than brothers. Now he was a top wrestler. the best in the year. He was short and nuggetty so he had it all over weedy old me in wrestling. but I had a longer reach One day for some mysterious reason out in the bush by ourselves we started fighting. I never knew why. Best friends can fall out for reasons that are never clear Marriages can break up and for reasons beyond understanding. Brothers and sisters, parents and children can have divisions which no one wants and can cause grievous hurts to all. Once the fight started we went at it really full on the last thing I remember he had a bloody nose and I was trying to get away from him. You see I had beaten him at fighting (hardly call it boxing) but I could never have beaten him at wrestling.In fact I was really scared of wrestling him So that friendship was completely totally and utterly destroyed . Two months later the school broke up for the year and I never saw him again. I saw in the school notes that he died about 15 years ago of a brain anurysim and sometimes wonder if our fight had anything to do with at all . most likely not. and anyway he died 30 years later.. Jacob after his wrestle was left with a limp .I was left with a small black hole (so to speak ). an invisible wound in my mind. which I still have. The loss of a good friendship, the ending of my school years with a dark cloud over them. So wrestling can lead to wounds that one can carry for life with no hope of healing.
It is very important that Jacob's new name (after wrestling with the mysterious stranger) is Israel. To contend with God and humans is the mission Israel, old and new. But I find myself wondering: As much as Jacob was changed by the encounter with God--wounded, renamed--was God also changed? After the all-night fight with Jacob, should God be called "He who wrestles with humanity"? J.Benbow
love this story... so does Kathleen Norris in Amazing Grace. Look at the chapter entitled "Grace" for a wonderful way to look at Jacob and God's love (I think it will preach good!)gail in berkeley
Wow! What insight and depth this week. Thanks to all those commenting. I especially like the slant on becoming a whole self in wrestling with God. In becoming a whole self, naming seems significant. What of the cultures that name adults after their rites of passage.
I have often been frustrated to the point of insult by people that I have worked with and around that have never bothered to learn my name (and I make an effort to share it so they are not embarrassed.)
I am also reminded of story passed on by a pastor couple that knew a family that renamed their son after he was two years old. They didn't like the name they first chose for him. The name was not significant but the story has stuck with me as being a bit absurd and tricky for a two year old. By the way it wasn't like they started calling "William", "Bill", but more like calling "Michael", "Gary". Strange.
Final thoughts, do we only become whole after wrestling with God and then and only then do we become renamed?
Kelly in Tacoma
Kelly in Tacoma's story on name changes reminded me of another: On a trip to Germany, the Rev. Michael King was so struck by the life of Martin Luther that he decided to change his name and that of his young son, originally Michael King, Jr. The father is best known to us as "Daddy" King. Young Michael, of course, is known to history as the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dan in MO
I see a great tie-in to the huge popularity of Professional Wrestling: what a story line. This is how I'm starting off: Today we have a great wrestling story: WWF, or whichever, would make a killing off of this:  Wrestling with a supernatural being  All night marathon  Winning!  Forcing a blessing from the opponent  Receiving a new name: “Struggling with God” or “God Struggles”  And a hip dislocation which makes you limp for the rest of your life  Could they come up with a better story?
Sorry, to have to ask, but what is ? Am I just dense?
Kelly in Tacoma
No Kelly, you're not dense........this one's got me stumped also. I have no idea what all those symbols and numbers mean.....
I'm becoming more intrigued as the week goes on with God's part in the struggle, and the notion that God struggles with us as much as we struggle with God. It starts to feel like a "co-creation" process, one that transforms the relationship b/w both parties in the wrestling.
Just a few mid-week thoughts,
SueCan
SueCan, thanks for letting me know, that I'm not alone in my confusion (all part of the struggle, I suppose.)
I like the reflections on co-creation. The process of interacting with God seems much more profound than always asking and receiving. I share a thought from a colleague who said,
"I've never been comfortable with the notion that we can just 'let go and let God'. It's never been that easy for me. Sure it's a nice thought, but we don't really operate that way. I find it comforting to know that Jacob wrestled with God and in the end wore the marks of the struggle and the blessing."
As I think about the psychological issues of Jacob dealing with his past. It makes me think of the painful struggle we all face in counseling sessions. Coming to terms with our own demons, wrestling with them and in the end being blessed by holding onto them through the night and into the light of day. As we seek to name our demons, perhaps it's we who are newly named in the process of self discovery.
Just my 10 cents worth of psychobabble. (I'm not a real therapist, I just act like one on the internet.)
Kelly in Tacoma
I am still struggling with this passage. I want to hang in there with Genesis but the gospel is so perfect for a communion Sunday. I think I'm going to do a 'read and gab' sermon. There is so much here, but I can't resist starting back in ch.32 with Jacob knowing Esau is coming with 100s of reinforcements. In his distress Jacob prays a honest, humble prayer admitting his dependency on God and clinging to the promises--this is a turn-around for him, don't you think?
Then he also does what he can humanly do on his own part, sending peace offerings ahead to his brother. But he went to God first!
I will read these bits of the story, reflecting on them with the folks. Then read the wrestling passage, thinking with them about who the opponent was (his alter ego is my guess, but God was in the struggle--thanks for the help with this, guys!)
But the meeting with Esau wraps it all up--we need to come 'face to face' with BOTH God and our brothers and sisters, as well. And in them, we often find the face of God. In Esau's forgiveness and his by-passing the title 'lord' from Jacob, calling him 'brother'--in all that God's grace comes thru. The word 'face' in 32:20 & 30 and 33:10 is key. So what about "Let's Face It" for a title, with facing both God and each other and finding grace in both as a theme?
Thanks for your help--Rebecca in MD
What's a "read and gab" sermon?
I keep wondering whether to let Paul interfere with this sermon. Jacob's story seems to me to welcome the idea of struggling with God. But if I keep reading in ch. 9 of Romans, Paul seems to discourage it. Some folks are chosen, some are hardened. And the clay better dare not argue with the potter!
How about a wrestling match with Paul?
pHil
Friends, Many thanks to all of you for the ideas you given me for many sermons. I have some questions about the passages in Genesis that I haven't seen addressed yet: 1. Jacob seems both to know and not know who he is wrestling with. What significance does this have, if any? 2. Verses 28 & 29 seem to contradict one another. In 28, the man tells Jacob he has struggled with God and with men. Though he's just been told (it seems), Jacob then wants to know the man's name. Why is this? 3. Why is Jacob's injury to his hip, and not, say, to his right hand or his eyesight, etc?
As I heard somewhere, "It's not the answers that are REALLY important - it's the questions!"
I look forward to seeing your responses in the forum.
God Bless, RevMike in LA
Great thoughts Rebecca in MD. I too have been struggling with sermon development and have settled for exploring the 3 Fs that have been at work in Jacob's life - namely 1) Fleeing when going gets tough, 2) Fighting with his fears, his God, his past and finally 3) coming to Faith as Jacob faced the reality of his deceptions and avoidance. Elizabeth Achtmeier wrote somewhere "Jacob was a scoundrel and schemer all life long, but by the grace of God he also had to become Israel - the father of the 12 tribes of the chosen people and the bearer of the promise of blessing .. . and God wrestled with him to lock him into that purpose. So too God in Christ wrestles with us to rule over our lives." To sum up the Sermon perhaps I will draw upon my own (and hopefully others) experiences of this process. Flee? Tried that before myself. Wrestle? Yes, many times have I fought and wrestled the nightime of my fears. Many times have I tossed whether I would come clean and seek reconciliation. Faith? By the grace of God in Christ He makes a new person of us all. Keep wrestling with me brothers and sisters. Ian in Qld.
Hi Unless I missed it, no one seems to have asked the question "Could this have been the pre-incarnate Jesus whom Jacob was wrestling with?" After all, he said that it was God. Other 'Angel of the Lord' appearances could also have this question asked of them. Here especially, it could be the reason that the name was not revealed. Jesus was not ready to say who He was, or man was not yet ready to know. Another thought;we have a struggle with God, and also ourselves, before we accept Him as our Lord and Saviour, before we accept the name Christian. We also go on as wounded soldiers of Christ who will not leave the fight, as we are being made whole in our struggle, our limping walk, with God. Gordon Ire.
Hey Gordon, I agree, I too think he was wrestling with the pre-Incarnate Christ. This was the night he was "born again". Interesting too, was that his hip was broke and our Lord's was not on Golgotha. Someone asked about the significance of the hip. As I recall, the hip/ hip bone had no significance in his culture's life. Belief was that it had no purpose. Until of course, God made it jacobs thorn!
I always go to this passage when I personally am rumbling, fussing, wrestling with God about me or my life/direction, or whatever. I have titled my sermon, a very present God, and I may only use the Matt. text. Essentially in both, God is present to us with both our internal spiritual needs and our very human ones. I like the idea of knowing that not only is God present to me to wrestle and complain to but that I am in relationship with God to do so, that God is THE person i can dump everything on that bothers me. sibbling riveraly or a growling tummy!!!
RevMiss
From Barbara Brown Taylor's sermon "Striving with God" out of her book GOSPEL MEDICINE:
"What is your name?" he asks Jacob, as they lie locked in each others arms. If you listen hard, you can hear the echo of another question, another time when someone else who could barely see asked Jacob to identify himself. "I am Esau," he said at that time, but twenty years plus this night have changed him. "Jacob," he answers this time, and the name falls away from him lik
From Barbara Brown Taylor's sermon "Striving with God" out of her book GOSPEL MEDICINE:
"What is your name?" he asks Jacob, as they lie locked in each others arms. If you listen hard, you can hear the echo of another question, another time when someone else who could barely see asked Jacob to identify himself. "I am Esau," he said at that time, but twenty years plus this night have changed him. "Jacob," he answers this time, and the name falls away from him like a second skin. He is no longer Jcob the supplanter. He is Israel, the survivor, the striver with God.....
From Barbara Brown Taylor's sermon "Striving with God" out of her book GOSPEL MEDICINE:
"What is your name?" he asks Jacob, as they lie locked in each others arms. If you listen hard, you can hear the echo of another question, another time when someone else who could barely see asked Jacob to identify himself. "I am Esau," he said at that time, but twenty years plus this night have changed him. "Jacob," he answers this time, and the name falls away from him lik
From Barbara Brown Taylor's sermon "Striving with God" out of her book GOSPEL MEDICINE:
"What is your name?" he asks Jacob, as they lie locked in each others arms. If you listen hard, you can hear the echo of another question, another time when someone else who could barely see asked Jacob to identify himself. "I am Esau," he said at that time, but twenty years plus this night have changed him. "Jacob," he answers this time, and the name falls away from him like a second skin. He is no longer Jcob the supplanter. He is Israel, the survivor, the striver with God.....
From Barbara Brown Taylor's sermon "Striving with God" out of her book GOSPEL MEDICINE:
"What is your name?" he asks Jacob, as they lie locked in each others arms. If you listen hard, you can hear the echo of another question, another time when someone else who could barely see asked Jacob to identify himself. "I am Esau," he said at that time, but twenty years plus this night have changed him. "Jacob," he answers this time, and the name falls away from him like a second skin. He is no longer Jcob the supplanter. He is Israel, the survivor, the striver with God.....
From Barbara Brown Taylor's sermon "Striving with God" out of her book GOSPEL MEDICINE:
You do not hear much about God causing chaos, or even having a role in it. On the contrary, it is God's job to make it stop. God is supposed to restore the status quo and help everyone feel comfortable again.....It is an appealing idea, but unfortunately the Bible will not back it up. In that richly troubling book, much of God's best work takes place in chaos, with people scared half out of their wits....
"What is your name?" he asks Jacob, as they lie locked in each others arms. If you listen hard, you can hear the echo of another question, another time when someone else who could barely see asked Jacob to identify himself. "I am Esau," he said at that time, but twenty years plus this night have changed him. "Jacob," he answers this time, and the name falls away from him like a second skin. He is no longer Jacob the supplanter. He is Israel, the survivor, the striver with God.....
It was the answer to his prayer at Bethel. Not the comfort and safety part, but the God-be-with-me part. It was the end of his making deals with God, the last act in his struggle to control. Jacob had learned. Not because God had nixed the deals. God had simply overlooked them, giving Jacob what he needed instead of what he wanted. God gave Jacob everything necessary for his life, which turned out to be the covenant. Within that wounded, blessed relationship, Jacob saw the face of God and lived to tell the tale. What is comfort and safety compared to that?
Of course this is all just talk until you have got a stranger on your back, smelling of heaven and pummeling you for all he is worth. When it happens, do not let anyone tell you there is something wrong. Do not let anyone convince you that if it were really God it would not be so scary and it certainly would not hurt. Hang on with everything that is in you, even if it hurts. Insist on a blessing to go with you wound and do not let go until you have got one. Then thank God for you life, limp and all, and tilt you way home.
A good book connected to this passage is "God-Wrestling" by Arthur I. Waskow. He ponders various passages including this from the Jewish perspective of "wrestling with the Torah." A good quote is "For to wrestle with God is also to wrestle with human beings--ourselves and others. It is to face polarities and unify them." Ed in Illinois.
In light of the translation of ISRAEL also being "God Wrestles", we might ponder the question of where God has been wrestling and struggling with Jacob's humanity throughout this story. We often focus on Jacob's act of wrestling and what that means for him. What about what this means for God and God's purposes?
I'm not sure. but one part of the puzzle might be the energy God puts into covenant and blessing that is gift, but we keep wanting (like Jacob) to make deals for our blessings, to get the fine print clarified beyond a doubt, to make SURE God ain't going anywhere. Does God have to wrestle us just to convince us of God's presence and promise?
Just Musing in Ontario