How does one preach this to the post-modern thinker? Come on do you really expect me to believe he floated up into the clouds? How far in space did he get? The moon? Mars? K in A
How am I supposed to peach this to the post-modern thinker? Come on do you really expect me to believe he floated up to the clouds? How far did he get? Mars? Jupiter? - K in AB
Dear Friends,
It seems that while "it is not for us to know the times and the seasons that the Father has set" - even though we would like to know, it is enough for us to know that we are to be Christ's witnesses - in Jerusalem (in our hometown), in Judea (among those just like us) in Samaria (among those who are different from us) and to the ends of the world (after all God shows no partiality - Acts 10).
It's just like us to get caught up in what we are not supposed to know (trying to figure out the times and seasons - is the y2k the year when the kingdom will be restored?,) and thus get distracted from the things we do know (bearing witness to the kingdom ushered in by Jesus, bearing witness to a God who loves and forgives, and bearing witness to the presence of the kingdom - lived out imperfectly to be sure - among us in the church).
Some early thoughts.
Grace and Peace, Jerry in MN
Are there any trekkies out there who can tell us about "Beam me up, Scotty" and what it meant to believe in the power of that technology? Thanks. Anne in Providence
K in AB,
It might be wise to let someone else preach this weekend. You seem to need some refreshment and rest.
Couldn't your mindset be applied to anything to do with Christianity?
Come on, you expect me to believe in a resurrected Christ?
Come on, you expect me to believe in the atoning and sacrificial death of a man-god name Jesus?
Come on, you expect me to believe that we must be born again?
Come on, you expect me to believe that Jesus will return, much like he left?
Come on, you expect me to believe in a virgin birth?
And in the stillness, in that small voice barely audible in the cacophony of intellectual and post modern thinking, the answer is...
Yes... I do...
Do you?
Rick in Va
I've heard some discussion about the disciples "gazing up to heaven" and about the two men in white challenging this. Do we stand gazing up to heaven enough? too much? That all-important, elusive balance between gazing and going.... Look forward to this week's discussion -- Shalom, RevAmy
Rick and RevAmy... thank you both... good questions to start the week!! Janet in NY
OK, Rick -- Imagine you are speaking to a post-modern unbeliever, or at least one who is beginning to question some things. Do you believe Jesus actually physically ASCENDED somewhere? Where COULD Jesus have ascended to? To you, is heaven just above the highest clouds? What would you tell that person, without somehow "copping out?"
OK, Rick -- Imagine you are speaking to a post-modern unbeliever, or at least one who is beginning to question some things. Do you believe Jesus actually physically ASCENDED somewhere? Where COULD Jesus have ascended to? To you, is heaven just above the highest clouds? What would you tell that person, without somehow "copping out?"
Rick in VA,
Talk about needing vacations...
The point is that the questions must be asked in order to seriously deal with the text. Could there be answers that result in FAITH by any other means? Or is it enough for us to tell the congregations entrusted to us what to believe?
"Usually," just a reader in Oklahoma.
Hi - first time poster here; thanks for all the fertilizer you've given my thinking :)! In reading the posts so far I have a comment and a question, but I'll post the question separately.
If we get fixated on "explaining" the Ascension I think we'll miss the point. As I recall, "explain" means to make flat, and that's what we'll do if we try to give answers to questions like "How high did Jesus go?"
I'm willing to let post-modern unbelieving minds figure out for themselves how stuff happens. To me the important verse here is 11 "why do you stand looking up to heaven". Appropriate in these days of apocalyptic fervor and Y2K fears. I think Luke was addressing the church's question "What do we do in the meantime?" Answer: v. 14 pray; get to work being the church, the body of Christ; and maybe not get so hung up on explaining the unexplainable.
Just some random thoughts. I'd love to know your response.
Reverend Earl
OK, so here's my question. Somewhere I read a story about some 17th century legislative body that got all excited about a total solar eclipse. Some thought it was the end, and wanted to adjourn the session. One legislator got up and said that if it wasn't the end, they shouldn't adjourn as they'd all look so foolish. And if it was the end, he wanted the Lord to find him doing his work.
I only remember this story vaguely. Does anyone recognize it? Can you point me to a source so I can quote it accurately?
Thanks.
Reverend Earl
Reverend Earl: Wish I had the source for that story for you, but alas! Thank you, however, for focusing "how" of the ascension to the "so what." That, for me, is the focus of the text.
I remember a sermon I heard once where the preacher explained that Gospel of Jesus Christ was not about "pie in the sky when you die" but about making "sound on the ground while you're around." And as we prepare to celebrate Pentecost -- the birthday of the Church -- that's not a bad thing to remind ourselves: and our congregations. Blessings, Susan in SanPedro
To the usually quiet reader in OK,
Thanks for not being so quiet and having the courage to post and say something. Far too many in and out of the pulpits today are afraid to say anything for fear of getting it wrong, being ridiculed or lacking confidence. Please post again on the DPS.
To the unknown poster who asked what would I say to the post modern un-believer. There is much I would say but doubtfully all at one time. I would hope to first earn his/her trust, to distinguish myself as a person of character and compassion who confidently knows what he believes. This of course would take time and require a relationship. Eventually, I would hope that he/she would be comfortable enough around me to hear my testimony, of how God has changed my entire outlook. If the relationship progressed far enough, I would tuirn this person on to those resources that have nurtured my own faith.
From the pulpit however, where relationships with those in the pews cannot be established 1 on 1 or at least maintained with all, the job is to preach the Word, uphold the ordination vows, encourage honest seeking with a foundation built on the idea that the Bible is Holy, not Hole-y. That critical analysis and interpretation of Scripture can take place without shredding it into meaninglessness. And that faith, though a gift from God, is nurtured via commitment and obedience, two virtues that are sadly missing in too many pulpits today.
Hope that's enough... for now.
RIck in Va
Hey Kelly, So they stood there, staring up into heaven. Now What? Isn't that how we all feel from time to time? NOW what? Lent, Holy Week, Easter, after Easter, Mother's Day, NOW WHAT? And all we get are marching orders, Be my witnessess, wherever you are, whatever is going on, whether or not you're on vacation, or you're being hassled by those who feel more righteous at the moment. "How to witness in 'ordinary' time", or "between the times", or "in the MEAN time"... when even Christians are a bit testy. Or is it necessary to pretend that as Christians we feel victorious all the time. Perhaps we're victorious by nature of Christ's power, even if we don't FEEL it and certainly don't want to ACT it. Maybe there's a sermon here somewhere. Pam in TPA
Not so by the way. There are two places in the New Testament where the world beyond (the no-osphere if you will) and this world intersect, the Transfiguration, and the Ascension. In both cases, the disciples are directed back to this world.
Remember in the Emmaus account, the risen Lord was made known in the breaking of the bread. Then, he vanished from their sight. The action was no longer at the table. It was back in the world. So the two got up off their and hurried back to Jerusalem, only to find that the risen Lord had been there ahead of him. Are we not to be always seeking to catch up with our Lord in works of love and caring?
Just wondering, R.J. in ND
Just to note a possible sermon title here: Going Up and Going Out. Jesus is ascending and the disciples are going to be spreading. Remember Jesus' statement about leaving the disciples so that the Spirit may come. Jesus' leaving will have an empowering effect on the disciples who, by the power of the Spirit will take the good news to the ends of the earth.
Just as earlier believers have "ascended" it's up to us to continue the spreading of the good news.
John near Pitts.
Let's not get caught up in the scientific questions--that's not the point of this passage. This is the point: v.8: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
My sermon will look at the outward progression we find here: Jerusalem--home. Ministry starts here. Does it end here? No. Judea--the neighborhood. People kinda like "us." Maybe we hesitate a little. Invite our neighbors to worship? Sure. Samaria: Wait--you're talking about the people who live nearby but aren't really like "us." People in a different tax bracket. ends of the earth: There is no end. "The world is my parish" John Wesley said.
Let's focus on this. The miraculous will either seem credible or incredible. To focus on that exclusively is to miss the point and get sidelined. NEOW in Maine
I think what makes this poignant is the moment between the looking up to heaven and deciding what to do next. Faith gives all of us looking up moments--sitting atop a beautiful mountain, looking at the dogwoods and crabapples in bloom, birthing the first child. But then there is the climb down, the return to tilling the soil, the changing the dirty diaper. Our faith lives in the balance between religious experience and actions motivated by love of (/from) God. SPT in CT
Greetings; I have decided to try to look at this passage in light of the Luke 24:44-53 passage. Since Luke wrote both, then they should support each other on this matter. Looking at the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets and the Psalms. This reading is pointing to the next week being Pentacost. The focus now changes from the Risen Christ, to the Counselor, The Holy Spirit and all that he brings with him. This of course points to the next Sunday of the Church year, being Trinity Sunday. So all these messages can lead up to the teaching of the Trinity in two weeks.
This is just my initial thoughts. As the week progresss I will look in here once in awhile to see if there are any gems to take and use.
God Bless everyone here as you prepare to preach His Word.
Pastor Rich Kent, Wa
In looking at this passage, I don’t think we can just skip over the fact that the Disciples are standing there staring, looking into some clouded view of where Jesus had last been seen. That is, after all, the tendency of most disciples when left alone, to their own devices - they stare at the place the teacher was last seen, they cling to the past, instead of looking ahead for the place the teacher will be next. What choice do disciples have? They can not know what the teacher is thinking, can they? That is what 1 Cor. 2:11 says, anyway: “Who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.” And the Good News? The Holy Spirit will come upon the Disciples, empowering them, giving them the ability to be witnesses of Jesus - not just in the clouds, but in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and even in Oklahoma. So, where are we looking? What spirit directs? Do we have a choice?
“Usually” quiet,OK
This reminds me of the story of the fella who was bored, so he hooked up some weather balloons to his lawn chair,strapped himself down in it, with a six pack of beer, and a bb gun . He thought he would just float up a few feet, perhaps, get a new perspective of his neighborhood, -- and it would be a fun thing to do. Instead he floated up several thousand feet into the flight path of the local airport. When he finally shot some of the balloons he decended safely amidst a crowd and the media. He was a bit shaken, but ok. They asked why he did it. He said -- "You can't just sit there." (Complete story can be found in Robert Fulguhm's "Everything I needed to Know..." book. The disciples didn't really realize what they had hooked into. You just wait and see, said Jesus. When the Spirit comes you shall receive power. Wow. They had no idea. Neither do we. Lots of us just sit around in our own backyards wondering why the world is so bleak and boring. Jesus says, come with me on an adventure you will never forget. Most of us never take the dare! -- revkk
The Feast of the Ascension should be one of the grandest on the calendar. But generally speaking it is not. I want to find a way to make it a very positive event in the life of Christ. At Christmas we make a big deal about the Word becoming Flesh, the divine becomeing part of us. At Easter, Jesus comes back to us again, even from the dead. At Pentecost, God comes to us again as the Holy Spirit. We celebrate the feasts whereby God comes closer to us. I'm going to begin to explore the ways that Christ can actually come closer to us because of the Ascension. It is not Jesus "leaving us" in the strictest sense. It is, I think, Jesus bridging the gap between Heaven and Earth. Is Jesus sitting now at the right hand of God with holes in his hands and feet and side? Is the Ascension the way that Jesus can be present for everyone in every age, rather than for a few in first century Palestine? It seems the Ascension perhaps crowns what was begun on Easter. Is there a connection between Jesus telling Mary not to touch him and his Ascension. What about an illustration or two that show how separation can sometimes mean a new kind of closeness??? Any thoughts? It's so hard to put into words, but I'd like to try. Shalom, WJA in California
All,
The sermon is in verse 8 - and it has to do with the power of God alive in those who believe in Jesus Christ.
I don't know from assending..... But the power of God to change sinful old me is real - I've lived it.
Arkansas Bob
Hi: Thanks for the good ideas. According to the United Methodist Planner the text is Acts 1-11. Which I think includes the heart of vv 6-14. What I see in the text, if we begin with verse 1 is the ability to move in and on the right time schedule. The disciples are given instructions. They are to wait for the power to go out. V9 tell us that they were reminded to not stand in that spot idol, which a lot of people think that is what waiting means, but to go to the place where they will receive the power to go out.
In order to move in and on the right time, the must 1) receive the instructions, and follow them to completion; 2)they must wait--but not idolly, 3) and once the power is give they must go out and testify. Standing in the spot where Jesus ascended will not be the place to launch the ministry of the church.
rr2 in Wisconsin
I've been thinking along the lines of heading to the upper room to wait. Many seem to associate the upper room with prayer already. Maybe like waiting to go see the Dr. - you have to do it to receive the treatment you need. Before we head out in the world all powered up, we must spend time in prayer. a good runner would never start out without stretching first, why do we think we should be able to do it all without praying first. thanks again folks,
rachel
Dear Friends,
It seems Jesus gently turns the disciples attention away from speculation - turns their attention away from things they can never know anything about - the when of the kingdom that the Father has set by his own authority, to mission - to being his witnesses.
My theme on this text is: "Don't Speculate, Wait, Pray, then Witness"
i.e.: We aren't to SPECULATE on "when" the kingdom of heaven will be ushered in - (i.e. this this the time you will restore the Kingdom to Israel as we approach y2k?), instead we are called to WAIT patiently (i.e. go back to Jerusalem and wait for the Spirit that I will send upon you). And the disciples returned and gathered together PRAYING (i.e. presumably for the coming of the Spirit, and perhaps about their own inadequacies and sin,) so that we might dare to venture out into the world to be Jesus' WITNESSes in "Jerusalem" (in our own hometown) "in all Judea" (among those like us) "and Samaria" (among those who are different from us and who we may not like and who may not like us) "and to the ends of the earth" (to all people no matter what their ethnic, political, social, standing or creed might be) all the whiile recognizing that we do so not under our own power but under the power of the One who is the very breath of God.
Grace and Peace, Jerry in MN
I visited the Acts 1: 1-11 site and it was blank. I was concerned, for I feared that the church was ignoring one of the most treasured gifts from God. The Ascension of Jesus needs to be lifted up as one of the signs of God's love for creation. Because of Christ's ascension, the word reaches each corner of the earth and Christ can live with each of us. The power of God, the love of God, the awesomeness of God is revealed in the ascension. We can not brush this off as a science fiction punn.
The power given to us as a result of the ascension is addressed next week, however, we are living in a space of "in between" (between the ascension and the return). What are we going to do with it? It is like the Saturday between Good Friday and Resurrection Sunday, what are you going to do with it? We can not just sit around and wait - but we have to build bridges, reconcile relationships through the power of God's loving gift, the Holy Spirit.
Ascension, one of the God's greatest gifts! We can not reduce it to "how" Jesus rose, but focus in on the power that raised him. Rev. WW
Just some thoughts.
The real question is "Where did Jesus go?" The New Testament never suggests that Christ disappeared from this planet, but poured himself into particular areas.
Jesus "ascended" into the Church. And if you take Colossians 1: 17 seriously..."and in † him all things hold together" Christ has in a sense "ascended" into all creation.
The idea that it's not for us to know the times and seasons get's ignored quite a bit, but it suggests that - at least from a human point of view - there is a fuzzyness to the future (contrary to te likes of Hal Lindsey).
And yes, how may Christians go around with their heads in a cloud, when there is real ministry waiting to be done.
DR
I posted this thought in Ascension Sunday Acts discussion and then couldn't find it, so forgive me if it actually did turn up and I'm repeating myself. . .
The Ascension of Christ reminds me of those 4 famous chords that open Beethoven's 5th--da da da DUM! That tiny theme is developed, transformed thru out the symphony. You can hear echoes of it all thru.
In the same way, the wonderful thing about Jesus' ascending was fact that it, along with Pentecost, jump-started the disciples and the early Church. Jesus is there all along, guiding, developing, tranforming. But like disciples who weren't to spend rest of their days staring into the blue, we must continue the 'symphony'--Jesus' great opus that's still in process!
Rebecca in MD
Reverand Earl;
I think this is the story you were searching for earlier:
The time was the 19th of May, 1780. The place was Hartford, Connecticut. The day has gone down in New England history as a terrible foretaste of Judgment Day. For at noon the skies turned from blue to gray and by mid-afternoon had blackened over so densely that, in that religious age, men fell on their knees and begged a final blessing before the end came. The Connecticut House of Representatives was in session. And as some men fell down and others clamored for an immediate adjournment, the Speaker of the House, one Colonel Davenport, came to his feet. He silenced them and said these words: "The Day of Judgment is either approaching or it is not. If it is not, there is no cause for adjournment. If it is, I choose to be found doing my duty. I wish, therefore, that candles may be brought." Winning the New Civil War, Robert P. Dugan, Jr., Page 183
DR
Anybody have a kids' talk for Ascension that doesn't scare the hell out of them, doesn't make Christ seem like a bird being sucked up into the sky, is entertaining to them and not the adults, and is meaningful? If so you're a Saint .. John from Oz
John;
I wonder if this would be helpful way to approach a children's sermon. My 8 year old son doesn't always like to have me hanging around while he's playing. He get's a bit self-conscious when I'm right next to him. So when he has his action figures out, and his legos scattered on the floor, I leave.
Of course, I don't really leave. I'm just in the next room keeping an eye and an ear on him. And should he need me (or should he start throwing his toys at the lamp) he finds out that I'm not gone, only out of his sight.
This is the "Ascension" Jesus hasn't really left. He's gone into the next room to keep an eye on us from there.
DR
Lots of great stuff here! Thanks for all the input. I'm going with a theme of "Unfinished Business"--as the body of Christ, Jesus has passed on his work to us. But we have difficulties with this:
1. Separation Anxiety--The disciples had to wonder, how can we carry on without Jesus. We are much the same, thinking we don't have what it takes. When key people move or die in our small church, folks ask this same question.
2. In-Between Living--it is hard living between what has been and what will be. But that is where we live much of the time--between graduation and a job, between the "golden age of Christendom" and the shape of the church of the future, etc.
3. Keeping On Task--like the disciples, we may be looking up at the clouds rather than doing what God has called us to do.
The answer to these difficulties lies in waiting for and living in the power of the Spirit. I'll be working on fleshing this out.
Dave from IL
For my children's sermon on the Ascension theme I'm planning to focus on Jesus' saying in John 14:12 - "...you shall do greater works than these, because I am going to my Father..." The primary thought being that Jesus is turning His mission and work over to the church and soon equipping the church with "power from on high" with the sending of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost). So under the theme: "Now you try it..." (a famous parental quote) I thought that I'd have one of the children try one of those Simon games that has a circle of buttons of various colors that light up. When you start the game Simon lights the buttons one by one in a random pattern and the player has to duplicate the pattern. If the player is correct in his/her duplication or imitation - the game continues, if not - a buzzer sounds and the player has lost. My plan is to invite one of the children to try it ("Now You Try It") - however I will be so busy doing it for the child that it is really me playing the game and the child is more or less an onlooker (shades of what we do with our kids when we do everything for them). It shouldn't take the children or the congregation long to catch on to what's going on and hopefully, see themselves in this picture. Then I plan to talk about the blessings of the Ascension in that the Lord of the Church truly entrusts the work of the Kingdom to us - and our endeavors in mission should provide great joy and satisfaction. And when we fail in our doing or none-doing - the Good News our forgiveness in Christ comforts us and ecourages us to keep on trying and serving our Savior. A wonderful book by Paul Tournier entitled, "Adventure of Living" has much to say about well-meaning, but unwise parents stealing their children's joys of discovery and accomplishment by doing everything for them - and not entrusting to them the opportunity to do it themselves. Tournier's message certainly hit me right between the eyes as we were raising our young ones - and I struggled with relinquishing control. To me that's a wonderful part of the message of a wonderful festival called, "Ascension" and the Sunday that follows. Acts 1:8,9 = Go, wait until you receive power from on high - and then use that power and pursue My purposes in this world - "declaring the wonderful deeds of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light"! Soli Deo Gloria. - Dick in San Diego
Why do you stand looking up toward heaven? This appears to be a directive to get on with the commission 'to go into all the world...'and a call to both social involvement as well as christian witness, rather than being preoccupied with personal salvation. Prepatory to Penetecost, we are reminded that without the gift of the Holy Spirit we cannot achieve the mission.
Why do you stand looking up toward heaven? Whoops me again, Rev'd Ruth from Oz, forgot to sign. Anyway regarding the kids talk, I'm not entirely happy with DR's answer to Jon from Oz 14 May 1999 07:28:01 about 'being in the next room'. It reminds me vividly of the analogy of death which is so often given to people in grief. I prefer DR's other question of 'where did Jesus go?'- and the idea of entering all creation and the church. As I read it I was reminded of waving someone good-bye at a railway staion- the train moves away, and the train moves out until it is out of sight. All people going somehwere, but we don't know exactly where each person is going, although we know the ultimate destination of the train. John, how about playing with that one? Grace and Peace.
Why do you stand looking up toward heaven? Whoops me again, Rev'd Ruth from Oz, forgot to sign. Anyway regarding the kids talk, I'm not entirely happy with DR's answer to Jon from Oz 14 May 1999 07:28:01 about 'being in the next room'. It reminds me vividly of the analogy of death which is so often given to people in grief. I prefer DR's other question of 'where did Jesus go?'- and the idea of entering all creation and the church. As I read it I was reminded of waving someone good-bye at a railway staion- the train moves away, and the train moves out until it is out of sight. All people going somehwere, but we don't know exactly where each person is going, although we know the ultimate destination of the train. John, how about playing with that one? Grace and Peace.
First time posting here.
"It is not for you to know the times or periods that the Father has set by his own authority." There is something divine in this verse that I am trying to uncover. Scott Peck writes of kenosis in his book, "Golf and the Spirit." He states the reason he plays golf is humiliation, or the monastic word ... mortification. It is a means of emptying the self -- disciplining the spirit and thus growing to trust an inward and invisible order for things. I'm thinking that the waiting is for us as disciples. We think we know, and yet we don't. Perhaps Ascencion Sunday is when we affirm the blessedness of ignorance. Jesus chose companions who had no clue about the times or periods that God had set in motion. As for me, I prefer the companionship of someone eager to discover ... and conversely will avoid the people who want to teach me something. I suspect that there is power in being empty ... beauty in seeing nothing ... and grace in silence.
Dr. Duh
Dear Saturday Sermon writers: I am with Dave in focusing on "living in between times", but looking at this small group and how they lived in between...by devoting themselves to prayer. I wonder what they did pray for, or did they just gather in holy silence? It might be interesting to craft a sermon imagining that they prayed psalm 68. I think that is what I'll do...imagine their prayer was rooted in the psalm and explore this prayer as one which sustains in the times we are betwixt and between. Mary
Hi, PL from RI. First time poster, but not a first time reader. I think I'm going to focus on the inbetween time as well. I also think there's some humor to be found in the "Why are you staring into heaven? verse. AFter all, sometimes the world does think we Christians are a bit odd and here's a chance to spoof on ourselves a bit. My sermon title is "For the Living Of These Days"
Hi, PL from RI. First time poster, but not a first time reader. I think I'm going to focus on the inbetween time as well. I also think there's some humor to be found in the "Why are you staring into heaven? verse. AFter all, sometimes the world does think we Christians are a bit odd and here's a chance to spoof on ourselves a bit. My sermon title is "For the Living Of These Days"