Last week, someone was labeled hateful and arrogant because he dared to do what Paul does here, proclaim that it is Jesus Christ who we should know as God, not some unknown God, not some caricature made up to be God, not some false philosophy or man made object of worship.
Now here we have Paul, among the religious and the philosophers of his day, proclaiming boldly that it is Christ who they look for and no one else as God.
Today, when one proclaims the same, Jesus as Truth, as the Way, he is sneered at condescendingly, called hateful and arrogant, by those within the church. Pretty wild ain't it?
Tough times for sure, but times for God's shepherds to put on God's armor, and get off the sidelines.
Let's command them (and us) to repentance. Let's preach God's Word (the whole of it, not just that which tickles our ears). Let's win souls for Christ, as He desires us to. And let's do it boldy, despite the opposition. In fact, if you're not being opposed for telling the truth, you might want to stop and determine whether you've grasped it as fully as man can grasp His truth.
Happy preaching,
Rick in Va
when paul preached to jews, he began with symbols that would mean something to them--torah, temple, land. when he preached to the athenian gentiles, he did not use those symbols. he began where they were--groping for God.
he did not even mention Christ until the end of his sermon--and even then not by name.
sue
This passage is not talking about Christ being God. The only mention of Christ calls him the one whom God has appointed and raised from the dead.
I am not arguing the opposite, only pointing out what I see in the text for today.
To sue and the unknown poster,
I'm a bit thick at times, help me understand what point you both are attempting to make...
Thanks,
Rick in Va
Hello all, I have to agree with Rick on this one. Please take a look at that verse 31 again, for it seems pretty clear to me: ". . . he will have the world judged in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed. . . ." God Bless you, Joe in OH
It’s Monday, and here are some thoughts which are “unencumbered by the exegetical process.”
+ Notice all of the visual language in this text. Paul says that he can see how religious these people are, that they even have a temple for a god they cannot see.
+ Paul says that he can see that the people of Athens are very religious -- and by that he means that they are interested in all kinds of religious ideas. They are religious, but not faithful. They are consumers of religions, they sample a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but they are not disciples. Paul invites them and us to know the one, true living God.
+ I heard Tex Sample tell a story last year about a woman he met at a party. When the woman heard that Dr. Sample was a minister, she stated that she was “into Native American Spirituality.” So Dr. Sample asked her, “What tribe?” She had no idea how to respond ... as she was not actually practicing any of it.
+ What was the point of their temple to the unknown God? What protection were they trying to buy? What control were they trying to gain? What are our “unknown Gods”? What are we afraid of? In what do we put our trust? What do we attempt to control?
+ Maybe we should not be so hard on the Athenians for their temple to the unknown God ... at least they acknowledged that there were things in the world and beyond this world that they know little about.
+ As a pastor of a congregation about to embark on a fourth capital funds campaign, I am just aching to know -- How in the world did they raise money for the temple to the unknown god? How do you motivate people to give, to sacrifice for something so nebulous?
Good luck and good preaching to all! -- Rev. Luckydog in New Mexico
It’s Monday, and here are some thoughts which are “unencumbered by the exegetical process.”
+ Notice all of the visual language in this text. Paul says that he can see how religious these people are, that they even have a temple for a god they cannot see.
+ Paul says that he can see that the people of Athens are very religious -- and by that he means that they are interested in all kinds of religious ideas. They are religious, but not faithful. They are consumers of religions,they sample a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but they are not disciples. Paul invites them and us to know the one, true living God.
+ I heard Tex Sample tell a story last year about a woman he met at a party. When the woman heard that Dr. Sample was a minister, she stated that she was “into Native American Spirituality.” So Dr. Sample asked her, “What tribe?” She had no idea how to respond ... as she was not actually practicing any of it.
+ What was the point of their temple to the unknown God? What protection were they trying to buy? What control were they trying to gain? What are our “unknown Gods”? What are we afraid of? In what do we put our trust? What do we attempt to control?
+ Maybe we should not be so hard on the Athenians for their temple to the unknown God ... at least they acknowledged that there were things in the world and beyond this world that they know little about.
+ As a pastor of a congregation about to embark on a fourth capital funds campaign, I am just aching to know -- How in the world did they raise money for the temple to the unknown god? How do you motivate people to give, to sacrifice for something so nebulous?
Good luck and good preaching to all! -- Rev. Luckydog in New Mexico
It’s Monday, and here are some thoughts which are “unencumbered by the exegetical process.”
+ Notice all of the visual language in this text. Paul says that he can see how religious these people are, that they even have a temple for a god they cannot see.
+ Paul says that he can see that the people of Athens are very religious -- and by that he means that they are interested in all kinds of religious ideas. They are religious, but not faithful. They are consumers of religions, they sample a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but they are not disciples. Paul invites them and us to know the one, true living God.
+ I heard Tex Sample tell a story last year about a woman he met at a party. When the woman heard that Dr. Sample was a minister, she stated that she was “into Native American Spirituality.” So Dr. Sample asked her, “What tribe?” She had no idea how to respond ... as she was not actually practicing any of it.
+ What was the point of their temple to the unknown God? What protection were they trying to buy? What control were they trying to gain? What are our “unknown Gods”? What are we afraid of? In what do we put our trust? What do we attempt to control?
+ Maybe we should not be so hard on the Athenians for their temple to the unknown God ... at least they acknowledged that there were things in the world and beyond this world that they know little about.
+ As a pastor of a congregation about to embark on a fourth capital funds campaign, I am just aching to know -- How in the world did they raise money for a temple to the unknown god? How do you motivate people to give, to sacrifice for something so nebulous?
Good luck and good preaching to all! -- Rev. Luckydog in New Mexico
Dear friends, I apologize for the multiple postings. My mistake ...I'm still pretty new at this. -- Luckydog
Just as Paul saw in the Athenians, so I see all around me where I live, and indeed throughout the U.S. and the world, that many of us are “extremely religious. . . in every way.” But religious for what? The best example of this would be in the extreme popularity of the “Star Wars” movies. Don’t get me wrong, I happen to enjoy these movies very much and will probably see the newest release eventually. Nonetheless, these movies very purposefully illustrate how people have such a vague notion of who God is. The April 26 issue of Time Magazine contained an interview that Bill Moyers had with George Lucas. You can look the whole interview up for yourself if you wish, but I decided to print at least an exerpt below. My question for all of you is this: In this world of multicultural relativism, can we STILL preach the uniqueness of the saving grace made available through Jesus Christ? I hope so. It might be difficult, but I hope so nonetheless. I’m going to bed. I’ll “talk” to you all tomorrow. Peace, Joe in OH Here’s the exerpt: MOYERS: What do you make of the fact that so many people have interpreted your work as being profoundly religious?
LUCAS: I don't see Star Wars as profoundly religious. I see Star Wars as taking all the issues that religion represents and trying to distill them down into a more modern and easily accessible construct--that there is a greater mystery out there. I remember when I was 10 years old, I asked my mother, "If there's only one God, why are there so many religions?" I've been pondering that question ever since, and the conclusion I've come to is that all the religions are true.
MOYERS: Is one religion as good as another?
LUCAS: I would say so. Religion is basically a container for faith. And faith in our culture, our world and on a larger issue, the mystical level--which is God, what one might describe as a supernatural, or the things that we can't explain--is a very important part of what allows us to remain stable, remain balanced.
MOYERS: One explanation for the popularity of Star Wars when it appeared is that by the end of the 1970s, the hunger for spiritual experience was no longer being satisfied sufficiently by the traditional vessels of faith.
LUCAS: I put the Force into the movie in order to try to awaken a certain kind of spirituality in young people--more a belief in God than a belief in any particular religious system. I wanted to make it so that young people would begin to ask questions about the mystery. Not having enough interest in the mysteries of life to ask the question, "Is there a God or is there not a God?"--that is for me the worst thing that can happen. I think you should have an opinion about that. Or you should be saying, "I'm looking. I'm very curious about this, and I am going to continue to look until I can find an answer, and if I can't find an answer, then I'll die trying." I think it's important to have a belief system and to have faith.
MOYERS: Do you have an opinion, or are you looking?
LUCAS: I think there is a God. No question. What that God is or what we know about that God, I'm not sure. The one thing I know about life and about the human race is that we've always tried to construct some kind of context for the unknown. Even the cavemen thought they had it figured out. I would say that cavemen understood on a scale of about 1. Now we've made it up to about 5. The only thing that most people don't realize is the scale goes to 1 million.
MOYERS: The central ethic of our culture has been the Bible. Like your stories, it's about the fall, wandering, redemption, return. But the Bible no longer occupies that central place in our culture today. Young people in particular are turning to movies for their inspiration, not to organized religion.
LUCAS: Well, I hope that doesn't end up being the course this whole thing takes, because I think there's definitely a place for organized religion. I would hate to find ourselves in a completely secular world where entertainment was passing for some kind of religious experience.
MOYERS: You said you put the Force into Star Wars because you wanted us to think on these things. Some people have traced the notion of the Force to Eastern views of God--particularly Buddhist--as a vast reservoir of energy that is the ground of all of our being. Was that conscious?
LUCAS: I guess it's more specific in Buddhism, but it is a notion that's been around before that. When I wrote the first Star Wars, I had to come up with a whole cosmology: What do people believe in? I had to do something that was relevant, something that imitated a belief system that has been around for thousands of years, and that most people on the planet, one way or another, have some kind of connection to.I didn't want to invent a religion. I wanted to try to explain in a different way the religions that have already existed. I wanted to express it all.
Late Monday ramblings:
I preached what some might have thought too conservative a sermon last week. Others might have thought it too liberal. I don't know. But, because I have just said that Christ is unique and is "the Way" I am drawn to these words in Acts.
How about tying this text with the Gospel text's "orphaned" theme and claiming that religious spirituality or "Force" which seems to pervade society will leave its followers orphaned? Granted I might be able make a bow to Mother's Day through the whole orphan theme.
I once prayed for a pair of cletes, not the Paraclete. The cletes didn't come, but thank God I got the Spirit.
JD in AK
after reading the comments, we need to look at the precept of this! when you proclaim christ,these three things will happen. 1 some will cleave to it, 2some will say in thier heart i will hear of this matter later. 3 some will laugh you to scourn. the ministry of christ has not changed nor ever will! jmd...
Lucas' claim that all religions are true are being echoed here in the DPS (see last week's gospel forum) by 'Christian' shepherds.
I might agree that there are elements of truth in differing religions but to state categorically that all are true is to deny logic, reason and truth itself. It is a well-intentioned mindset that desires to be inclusive in a culture where truth is sacrificed on the altar of let's-all-get-along. And when truth is sacrificed, deception is elevated and evil reigns.
Shepherds must preach Christ as Truth, as the Way and as the only source of Eternal life and any other 'way', 'truth' or 'life' is simply misguided. This must be done in love, humbly, and sincerely (which makes it difficult) but can be accomplished when one submits to God's Holy Spirit.
Shepherds must also warn the flock that deception is real, evident, and promulgated from pulpits and this means that we must be in God's Word. The more we know Christ, the easier it becomes to recognize deception. The denial or dilution of His divinity, the diminishing of His purpose and the proclamation that He is but one way to the Father and not the sole source of salvation are clear indicators that the spirit of anti-Christ is alive and doing well, and baying from many pulpits.
As shepherds of God's flock, protection from wolves in sheep's clothing is part and parcel of the job.
Who will take the role seriously?
Rick in Va
Thank you, whoever listed the Moyer/Lucas dialogue. What an excellent contemporary example of the very issue facing Paul as he walked into Athens. Many of us can remember leaving high school with a strong but naieve faith and heading into a university setting where naievete was the great sin.
Maybe you experienced, as I did, intellectual ridicule for my inability to appropriately articulate my beliefs in sound logical/theological fashion. The environment was one of critical thinking. No idea got by without some heat.
Multiply those experiences by hundreds of years and we might begin to imagine the environment as Paul headed into the Aeropagas. Remember Socrates was indicted for bad philosophy and undermining the city gods. His fatal drink of hemlock is certainly in the minds of the readers of Acts.But by the grace of God, Paul lives to go on to Corinth.
Paul does something different in Athens than in his other visits. Paul seems to try to debate with the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers rather than witness
Maybe that is an unfair assessment given the environment and traditions into which Paul entered. Nevertheless, the fact remains that no church was ever established in Athens.
Has anyone ever been argued or debated into the faith?
I am remembering that this Sunday is Mother's Day and am thinking of this text in relation to the theme of the Festival of the Christian Home. I wonder what Paul might say to my family and me if he were to visit our house.
What would he say about all the chairs in my den that are carefully directed toward the TV as though it were a worship center. What would he say about a casual glance at my checkbook or my calendar as they reveal my stewardship of time and money?
How many gods are worshipped in my house?
I hope to use this message to help our church move toward a vision of every house having a worship center and every house practicing daily devotion.
Susannah Wesley will visit our worship service to encourage and challenge each family. Can you imagine rearing 19 children before clinics,disposable diapers, baby food in the jar, washing machines. Susannah Wesley not only reared her children to be responsible Christians, but she established a home church, organized small groups, and demonstrated many other acts of spiritual leadership to the dismay of many male leaders, including her own husband Samuel.
In a religious world of many gods, the world is still in need of leaders who can witness to the one to whom so many remains "unknown." It will never be a "let me understand so that I may believe" issue, but a "let me believe so that I may understand" issue. Fide querrens intellectum, faith seeking understanding, as Luther put it. Fred from LA
Interestingly, I heard the same story about the woman who was "into" Native American spirituality. But, I heard it from Fred Craddock.
Another interesting proverb. "When smashing idols, save the pedestals, they'll be used again."
Kelly
Greetings all - Thanks for all the words of discussion about this text... thanks esp to Fred in LA. I was in Athens in mid-March and though all of the temples, statues and monuments aren't still there... the Parthenon is, as well as various other "houses of the gods"... Places to worship Athena and Poisdon, to offer gifts and prayers to them. It was so overwhelming for me to stand next to Mars Hill and to hear these words of Paul's as we read them there. I wasn't sure how I was going to be able to share this or how I'd be fair and discuss or mention Mother's Day. I don't want to ignore it... but I also don't want to preach "mother's day" ... I'm still working with it, but at least now I'm thinking about the reality of the need to worship of all people... as well as the reality of our own altars today. Thanks and keep sharing. Blessings -- RevAmy
"as I went through the city and looked carefully at your objects of worship..." (17:23) What do you think? Are any of you in settings where the biological/neucleur family is held up as an object of worship? I know that this might not be a popular notion, but it seems to me that some of our most significant problems in my churches right now are either directly or indirectly resulting from the prevailing attitude of taking care of me and my family... Sometimes that might extend to the churches, those who are here are worship with us as family... but these are small, rural mostly family churches. I don't know. I frustrated today and Paul's words are working on me too. God be with you all -- RevAmy (again)
I suppose that the verse that has continually come to mind is verse 27, "and perhaps grope for him." How do we grope for God, or do we? Do we grope as for shoes under the bed, for a candle in the darkness, as a baby reaching for a parent? Do we grope recognizing in our hearts...if not in our minds...that God is near and can be known. My seminary professor talked about the "God receptor" or prevenient grace that was planted in each human being when Jesus died on the cross. Once again, not exegesis, but thoughts to ponder as I prepare to preach on this pericope one more time. Title... "Groping for God!" Blessings! Rev. Linda
I agree with Rev Amy that the "family" is sometimes lifted as an idol. Just what are "family values" anyway? Some families have good values; other are hurting.
Paul Tillich use to say that there was only one sin: idolatry. The anxiety that is common to humanity stems from the simultaneous pulling from all the gods we worship. The first commandment is the hope of liberation and peace for a world in bondage to the very gods it has created.
Douglas John Hall, in his book "Professing the Faith" has some interesting insights into idolatry. Bear with me as I share them:
"Human beings have indeed the power to create images of deity that serve our grandiloquent aims, cloaking our own craving for sovereignty. But these same images regularly turn into idols. Cultures in their upward and high phases fashion for themselves gods that enshrine their collective pride; and history bears witness to the fact that these false gods do indeed inspire a people's heroic ventures, conquests, explorations, inventions, wars, sciences, and technologies. But in their decline, and as perhaps its chief contributing factor, societies are oppressed by no other facotr so much as their own cultus. Their gods cannot tolerate failure. Like almighty fathers everywhere, the father gods whose main attribute is power will settle for nothing less than stalwart confident sons. A time comes, however, when the sons of such fathers no longer have the will to believe in their reflected omnipotence. Their self doubt may then first manifest itself in doubt concerning the might of the gods they fashioned. But as those gods are truly projections of their own bid for preeminence, there can be no critique of almighty divinity that does not return, at last, to its source and question the humanity that devised it."
Fred from LA
One of my favorite movies was "City Slickers." Billy Crystal plays the part of man in the midst of mid life crisis. He has no meaning in life. His job of advertising, to use his words, is nothing more than "selling air."
He tries to find himself, his smile, and meaning by joining two friends on a back-to-nature cattle drive. The trail boss, Curly, is a tough growling kind of guy, worn by the weather. He has had it with all the tender footed city slickers.
Curly says to Mitch, "You city slickers are all alike. You come out here every year, the same age, the same problems. You spend fifty weeks getting knots in your rope and think two weeks will untie them for you. None of you get it."
Curly says to Mitch, "Do you know what the secret of life is?" Mitch doesnt respond. Curly holds up one finger and says, "One thing; just one thing; stick to one thing." "Great" says Mitch. "Bu what is that one thing? "That is what you have to figure out," says Curly.
It is the one thing that brought Paul to Athens. It is the one thing that the Athenians had labled "Unknown." The one God among the many gods can be known. The veil has been lifted. What community could not create nor discover on its own, has come to them, incarnate in Jesus, crucified and risen.
Great comments--one and all!! Thanks!! I am not sure why, but I took a somewhat different slant on this passage (I think I seem to take a differnt slant on a lot of scripture). At any rate, I wnet back to the beginning of this pericope--to verse 16. There we learn that when Paul saw the idols, his spirit was provoked. It seems to me that far too many Christians sit in our pews today and do not have their spirits "provoked" by the lost who sit unchurched in our communities. The lost mattered to Paul! The lost matter to God! The lost should matter to us! Nevertheless, Paul spent some time in Athens getting to know the people--what they were thinking; what bothered them; what their hurts & pains were. Then when he spoke to them, he spoke directly to their needs. For example, to the Stoics who believed God existed in every rock, tree, molecule of air, etc., Paul spoke of the transcendent God, mighty and powerful, Creator of all that is. To the Epicureans, who believed God was no longer related to the creation and therefore of no concern to them, he spoke of God's imminence--how He is close to each of us at all times. In other words, Paul's message addressed the specific concerns of his audience--something our evangelis-tic messages ought also to do. Finally, as far as Mother's Day goes, I plan to speak of my own mother. Unfortunately no Christian in our local community ever had their "spirits provoked" enough to ever present the gospel message to her. As far as I can tell, when she died she still did not know Christ as her Savior. (Obviously you can tell the story the other way around if your mother was saved.) We as Christians must get to know the lost in our communities and share with them the only true hope they have. That's what Paul committed his life to. And that is what the Great Commission calls for each and all of us to do as well. Sorry for getting a little "preachy." I tend to get that way every now and then. Art in KY
What great discussion! This was the first time I felt moved to print out the whole thing for quoting and for future reference. Two comments: First, to note that somewhere I read a sermon based on the traditional way that the Greeks (supposedly) selected sites for altars. They would let flocks of sheep wander through Athens. If the flock stopped to rest at, say, Mar's temple, then they would be sacrificed to Mars. If they stopped at just any old place, then they (the sheep)must be aware of some god or goddess that we don't know, hence "an unknown god." The sermon took off from there: where do your sheep lie down. That is, what do you take to be signs of divinity in your life? Where do you turn for spiritual rest and feeding? This would also make a great link to Mother's Day. In the wake of Columbine we wonder where our children are wandering, groping, finding spiritual rest and feeding? Is it God or some other divinities? Is it Mars (guns), Venus (sex), the muses (music), Dionysus (alcohol and pills)? Is it Jesus? And can we, like Paul, still say to anyone, even our own children, that we will tell them who make the universe, who they have been blindly groping for? Second observation: what would a post-Christian Paul say: "People of Athens, I perceive that you are a very spiritual people. Groovy!" Shalom! Boyd in NC
What a radical thing Paul has done here (radical at least to the early Jewish Christians). He claims that a “pagan” temple is really a temple to the God of Jesus Christ. These pagans were worshipping the real God all along, and they didn't even know it. He proves the point by quoting not the Bible, but Greek poets and philosophers! He says in affect “There is something of value in your (pagan) religion and your culture and I’m going to build on it.”
Would Paul today preach a message to the unknown “Force,” linking Star Wars to Jesus Christ?
Just wondering.
DR
God made the world and everything in it. for in him we live and move and have our being. For mother's day whart a set of scriptures. isn't that a description of of all our first nine months on earth. The maternal side of God. The source of creation and sustenance. skybird/GA