Date: 6/9/2004
Time: 4:59:30 AM
testing
Date: 6/10/2004
Time: 2:51:55 PM
Picking up the mantle of a great preacher/prophet is always an awesome thing. How great to have their blessing. It really speaks to passing on the tradition and the Word.
B Rock in HI
Date: 6/16/2004
Time: 7:34:50 AM
Elijah's ministry comes to a successful conclusion, and a new chapter of the story begins as Elisha accepts the spirit of his teacher to carry on God's ministry.
Date: 6/20/2004
Time: 9:58:53 AM
We are deep in primitive history - what was taken for reality then, we can't even begin to imagine and call it legend or poetics.
As with the experience of the Transfiguration we are touching mystery. Is it possible to proclaim this story, or to stand in absolute awe and sheer silence. We are given a vision,not only of the prophets but into the divine life of Yahweh.
tom in ga
Date: 6/21/2004
Time: 2:35:52 AM
I am hoping to speak not so much on the passing of the mantle of ordained ministry as so often is the case with this scripture, but the passing on of the mantle of lay ministry from one generation to the next and how that even though the mantle was left or dropped by Elija, Elisha had to pick it up and accept the spirit that was left to him and do something with it. Any thoughts . . . ? Shalom, Rev. Nancy in NE
Date: 6/21/2004
Time: 1:04:25 PM
Elisha already knew that his teacher, Elijah would be leaving him soon. Therefore, Elisha closely followed Elijah. He asked Elijah for inherit a double share of his spirit. Who do we need to follow and whose spirit we want to inherit from in our time? In the New Testament time, whoever touched Jesus' cloak, they were healed. ID
Date: 6/21/2004
Time: 5:38:26 PM
Some time ago I was at a gathering of clergry where the speaker looked at us and said, "I know you all think there are persons better equipped to serve God. But you know what? Moses and Elijah and Elisha are dead, as well as Amos and John the Baptist and Paul. You're all God's got."
Wow. revdlk in nebraska
Date: 6/22/2004
Time: 3:50:42 PM
y'know, it doesn't appear that Elijah died. at least the text doesn't say "he breathed his last" or anything like that.
Sally
Date: 6/22/2004
Time: 4:27:37 PM
Sally, tradition has it that Elijah was taken up alive, that he did not die. This is the reason the Jews believe he will return in bodily form to usher in the Messiah, and a place is set for Elijah at the Passover Seder table every year. They hope this is the year Elijah will return to Israel, alive and ready to usher in the Messianic age.
KHC
Date: 6/22/2004
Time: 4:38:33 PM
Elijah is considered Israel's greatest prophet, even though he didn't get his own Book in the Bible. He was the ultimate Man of God to those who knew of him. To follow him may have meant some of that greatness would rub off on the ordinary man of God. Elisha was convinced there was no other place in the world to be besides following Elijah wherever Elijah went, no matter what the cost. This trekking after him would be his life, and it ended up being his vocation, too.
In the NT lesson, we have someone greater even than Elijah and people wanted to be connected with him somehow. But they have other concerns - worldly concerns. Jesus lets them know they are not (fit, called, ready, needed) to follow, and they go their own way, leaving Jesus to continue his journey to Jerusalem. They wanted what Jesus offered, but not at the price Jesus was demanding. Elisha, on the other hand, was more than willing to pay any price to follow Elijah. He picked up where Elijah left off, which is what a disciple of Jesus is supposed to do - continue the ministry.
Still trying to figure which text to use this week.
KHC
Date: 6/23/2004
Time: 12:48:44 PM
I wonder if Elisha knew what he was asking for when he asked for a double share of his spirit (I'm not even quite sure what he was asking for). But it seems that that gift comes with a cost-- putting on the mantle of the prophet. It has honour, but even more responsibility.
I'm wresting with the theme of cost/submission and freedom. We all have a choice whether or not we will pick up the mantle left to us by the saints whom have gone on before us. That mantle seems heavy and yet it is the very thing that parts the waters before us and helps us to step boldly into the unknown. KBinAB
Date: 6/23/2004
Time: 2:16:21 PM
I'm just answering my own question. I found out that a 'double share' is the amount that is given to the heir/first born son. So Elisha is not asking to have more spirit/power than Elijah had, but to become fully his heir.
I still can't help but wonder if it was youthfulness that made him bold enough to request that... Did he really understand what he was asking for? Be careful where you aim, 'cause where you aim you just might hit. KBinAB
Date: 6/23/2004
Time: 3:09:43 PM
Sally and KHC,
Regarding the discussion of Elijah not dying, at the transfiguration of Jesus, two men appeared with the transformed Christ: Moses and Elijah. In the most common view that I have run into, they represent the Law and the Prophets. I have also heard it suggested that they were sent because one (Elijah) had never died and the other (Moses), though he had died, had never faced the corruption of the grave (an idea based on Deut 34:6 where it says Moses was buried but his grave could never be found). I personally prefer the Law and the Prophets concept but the other is out there and so I mention it. I have a visiting preacher for Homecoming this Sunday so I'm just enjoying the discussion this week. Mike from Soddy Daisy, TN
Date: 6/23/2004
Time: 9:02:38 PM
Bishop Joel Martinez of this Annual Conference preached a sermon once that talked about Elijah's mantle. I of course have no notes on it--he talked about the dust from different places that the mantle would have carried on it, as a testimony to where Elijah had been/what he had done and how Elisha would carry that with him.
It seems like there's something significant for us in this transition from Elijah to Elisha, but I can't yet put my finger on it. Something about the high stakes involved and the extremely holy nature of the whole event. It could be about our taking up the mantle and praying for the strength to do so, or maybe about the extreme difficulty of the prophetic task. I already turned this in as my text, but now I wonder.
Laura in TX
Date: 6/24/2004
Time: 8:48:06 AM
Nancy, I am also looking at this passage with the idea of passing the mantle on to the next generation. I too, will be exploring this from a lay perspective. In one of my small churches (I serve two), there is a distinct movement by the younger adults to take on ministries and leadership in the church. The willingness of the older "faithful" to mentor and encourage them--and then to let go is critical to the life of their church in the future.
Laura, I was really impressed by the idea of the dust on the mantle, where all it came from. The connection to the history of the congregation, the shared heritage should make a powerful message.
Thanks to both of you. BTW, my message title is "Taking up the Mantle".
Peace & blessings
Rich in Bama
Date: 6/24/2004
Time: 10:00:19 AM
Does anyone have an idea of what the mantle would look like? I too like the idea of the dust on the mantle. I can't help but think that it must have had a certain smell (probably not that pleasant a smell, but one that belonged specially to Elijah). But what is it? Is is something you wear around your neck? or just carry? KBinAB
Date: 6/24/2004
Time: 1:20:58 PM
MANTLE from Encyclopędia Britannica
cloak fashioned from a rectangular piece of cloth, usually sleeveless, of varying width and length, wrapped loosely around the body. Usually worn as an outer garment in the ancient Mediterranean world, it developed in different styles, colours, and materials. The Greek chlamys (worn only by men) was a short mantle draped around the upper shoulders, pinned on the right.
Date: 6/26/2004
Time: 5:23:19 AM
This will be my last Sunday in the appointment that I've been at for the last seven years. And what I'm hoping to do with this passage along with the Luke passage (a lay reader is going to read Luke first and then I'm going to read 2 Kings) is to speak about transition and a passing of the mantle (opening by speaking about how at our annual conference's retirement worship service there is a passing of the mantle) from my ministry to the ministry of the person who will be coming next. As part of this, at the suggestion of a friend, I will be thanking my two congregations for sharing with me the double share of their spirit.
Thanks to all of you DPSers! Mark in WI
Date: 6/26/2004
Time: 8:00:20 AM
This is an open and affirming congregation, and the decision to become open and affirming was made in 1993 by people who are now quite old. But they had a vision. They still lead and set a standard for all of us. I will talk about their legacy to all of us, and how we can still learn from them what it means to be faithful followers. Every year when we install new elders and deacons, we present them with a stole to represent being yoked with Christ. The material from which the stoles are made is from members, and the design of many of them is a kind of patchwork, to symbolize the community, in all its diversity and beauty. But this year I will use the imagery of the passing on of the mantle, as a way of honoring our Jewish heritage. I will ask those elders and deacons who are rotating off to pass on their stoles to newly elected elders and deacons. (Not to say they won't continue to serve in other ways, but I think the idea of passing on the mantle will be powerful for our installation service, which is July 11.)