Date: 21 Apr 2002
Time: 14:19:37

Comments

testing


Date: 21 Apr 2002
Time: 19:11:26

Comments

To Sue in Cuba, KS… I read your post last week under John 10… a sermon of yours from 1999 in which you cited an event that took place in a 1993 Seeds of Peace camp experience. I tried to locate the Guideposts article that you referenced by subscribing to their on-line archives, but had no luck. Any chance you have any additional info that might help me out? If you do and are willing to respond you can email me at revbeth@hixon-mai.com. Thanks for sharing that sermon and the illustration.


Date: 22 Apr 2002
Time: 05:43:48

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We're having a baptism and a couple folks joining church this Sunday, so I'm going with this passage, for the royal priesthood and living stones images.

dave k. in west ohio


Date: 22 Apr 2002
Time: 12:39:33

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What does it mean to be a living stone? It's early...just thinking. NBC Preacher


Date: 22 Apr 2002
Time: 12:55:53

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It seems to me "living stones" is the believers and that with Jesus as the cornerstone, it's kind of a construction metaphor -- along the same lines as the church being the Body of Christ, with Christ as its head. A good hymn for this one is "The Church's One Foundation" . . .

dave k. / west ohio


Date: 22 Apr 2002
Time: 13:40:24

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I discovered that the word "stone" is usually tied to an adjective of some sort in the Greek text: "building" stone; "precious" stone (like a jewel); "mill"stone; and "grave"stone. Jesus, the "living" stone is viable and valuable - for the foundation of of the spiritual house (church) into which we are built and on which we build. Dave, Akron


Date: 22 Apr 2002
Time: 15:50:03

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There are two things that come to my mind whenever I read this "living stones" text.

First, this is Peter, "the Rock", telling the rest of us that we are also "rocks."

Second, I recall the words of John the Baptizer to the Pharisees: "Do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our ancestor'; for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham" (Mat. 3:9, Luke 3:8) and Christ's words to those who would silence the crowds shouting "Hosana" - "I tell you, if these were silent, the stones would shout out." (Luke 19:40) Peter calls the members of the church "living stones" who are now, indeed, spiritual children of Abraham and who sing Hosanas to the King.

I used the second thought as the core of a sermon entitled "Stones at Worship". It's on the web at http://www.stfrancis-ks.org/subpages/csermons/advent3cy2k.htm

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 22 Apr 2002
Time: 23:58:44

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we are having heritage Sunday in our church and I think this is a good passage. Our membership committee wants to honor those who have been members for 25 years or more, problem is that I do not even know half of them and have been here for six years. They do not come to church, so this is a good passage to remind them what it means to be a member, and the vows we made when we became members. MR in NY


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 05:18:09

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2:5 like living stones, let yourselves be built into a spiritual house

I like the passiveness of this verse...let yourselves be built. I think there's an emphasis here on placement. As a builder places the stones where he wants them, so we are open to being used by God, for God.

Knowing that it's my obedience to God and not my actions or my will that moves me toward maturity is kind of refreshing. Not having to have it all figured out, depending on God, is rather liberating.

Living Stones: I'm reminded of the saying about the problem with living sacrifices is they keep jumping off the altar. Perhaps living stones keep moving out of place...hindering the construction of the spiritual house.

John near Pitts.


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 07:07:03

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I'm a lay minister and have used lots of everyones ideas but have never contributed. So here goes. Last week I preached on Jhon 10 and as Jesus as our model as a "servant leader". This week I going to try to connect Jesus as a stumbling block. There are things we will not or cannot do because of Jesus in our lives.

Phil - Montana


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 09:15:28

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John near Pitts said, "I like the passiveness of this verse...let yourselves be built. I think there's an emphasis here on placement."

This calls to mind a sermon of the Archbishop of Canterbury, George Carrie, which he preached a few years ago at a confirmation service in Bahrain. He pointed out that the stones used in building aren't simply picked up off the ground and stuck in somewhere -- they are quarried and shaped and made to fit as the builder wants them. So the "living stones" metaphor is analogous to the potter-and-clay metaphor used in Jeremiah's prophecy or the pruning-branches metaphor used by Jesus. In all three, the builder/potter/vinedresser molds, hacks, trims, and shapes the object (us) to his purposes. We may be passive, but he certainly is not, and we are not left as we were.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 10:00:18

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This Sunday is junior confirmation at our church, and ten young people will stand before their congregation and declare their faith for all to hear. Let's face it: the sermons preached on an annual event like this are just as much for all the visitors (family and friends) who otherwise wouldn't be in church. Last year, I was fortunate enough for the appointed Gospel reading for our confirmation Sunday to be Jesus' Prodigal Son parable(Talk about God's timing - not to mention a subtle sense of humor!). This year we have Peter's comments that we are living stones. I've just begun my prep work, but already I'm leaning a little toward the idea that this is not something we have to do to become, but it's something, by virtue of our faith, and by Christ in us, that we ARE. What are the implications of THAT? Second, as one who has a reputation for props in my sermons, I will also be exploring ways I might be able to use some good-sized rocks (perhaps bricks?), and talk about what makes them useful, how a stonemason would render them useful for a particular purpose, etc. and connect that with God at work in our lives, especially considering both the national and worldwide tragic events of the past year, as well as a significant event or two in the life of our congregation. Any one have any similar thoughts or connections?

Dennis in Santa Rosa, CA


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 11:11:28

Comments

Does anyone find it disturbing that we have a passage about 'living stones' on the same Sunday that we have a stoning in the Acts passage? It seems a bit off putting... if not worse. For that matter, we have a call in the Psalms for refuge when we have poor Stephen with no refuge in which to hide. I know we say he gets his reward as a martyr but I can't understand why the Lectionary would so highlight such stark and horrifying contrasts between 'living stones'/stonings, refuge/ no place to hide.

TB in MN

I find it all a bit sad and disturbed.


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 11:37:20

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I think I'm going to go along with the folks who couple this with the Gospel and use it as a "we are the church" message - we're each stones, professing faith in our cornerstone savior. But we won't go anywhere without a relationship wiht him. This seems to point to the wisdom that before ANY church growth/evangelism/outreach can be "successful" (someone on the gospel page commented about the lunch program being considered "unsuccessful"), we must first tend to our discipleship.

Anything we do ought to pour forth from an overflowing cup, not as (to quote the same poster) do-gooders trying to earn heavenly or earthly kudos.

Thinking out loud...

Sally in GA


Date: 23 Apr 2002
Time: 17:34:50

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Just thinking outloud -- sermon title DO YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE? This passage is a marvelous statement of belonging. My little church holds on to its independence fiercely, resisting UCC connections however loose they may be. The last two verses are especially powerful for me. Seems important to carve out a distinction between the gift and the responsibility. Add to that the "living stone" images and I find a strong Easter message. Chap in PA


Date: 24 Apr 2002
Time: 05:33:43

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Anyone note that Christ is first referred to as a living stone..."Come to him, a living stone"; then we are called to be as living stones as well?

Our identity is to be found in him.

TB in MN, I like the honesty of the Lectionary passages this week. Christians are promised persecution (the beatitudes). I think the Lectionary's use of stones/refuge this week bears the fact that even in persecution there is a refuge.

I'm reminded of the childhood saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me." Perhaps this can be changed to "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but death will not defeat me."

John near Pitts.


Date: 24 Apr 2002
Time: 07:27:41

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To TB in MN - I often find that the lectionary presents different points of view. It gives us the opportunity to talk about these differences - ie. stones can be used for good (living stones ) or for harm - both litterally(the stoning) and in other ways. When people who are called to be living stones in Christ forget that they are a part of the body of Christ and called to live in God's ways- the stones are no longer living. Nina in the North


Date: 24 Apr 2002
Time: 08:50:16

Comments

Christ the "living stone" is the cornerstone of the new temple (spiritual house), built of other "living stones".

Through this work of Christ we have a new temple, a new race and nation(Israel replaced by the church), a new priesthood, and a new people of God.

The temple (now the church) is God's dwelling place on earth. Christ is the head and cornerstone. This has been rejected by many but is a precious truth for those who believe. The church now has the responsiblity to proclaim this and do God's work.

The first part of the passage, refers back to verse 23 in chapter 1, where he says that the Word is God's instrument to purify us for this great life and work in mutual love. Verse one is significant when it tells us to put away every thing that distances us from others, so that we can live this way and receive this nourishment, so that we can be living stones as was the Christ. Following after him and being purified by his Word will transform us into those living stones, and corporately into all these entities that Peter proclaims.

It's early, but that's what I am working with. Hope it all makes some sense.

Good passage for priesthood of all believers, spiritual gifts, and covenant theology (so it could be a great one for baptism and confirmation - we call confirmation "Public confession of faith" or "Affirmation of baptismal vows").

Larry in Indy


Date: 24 Apr 2002
Time: 14:38:21

Comments

I understand that the Lectionary is sometimes contrary and offers a variety of images. I personally find this particular connection of murder and 'living rock' disturbing. Why not lift up a passage including a reference to a literal drowning and talk about baptism on the same Sunday? Preach it with a certain enthusiasm and imagine how nervous the parents would be! I just think the Lectionary gods got it wrong this week.

But then... we say we eat the flesh and drink blood of our savior and we raise an exicution device on our walls as a source of veneration. We church folk do get weird sometimes... One could observe that we have some rather 'interesting' choices of words and symbols in our collective history-- questionable bones, scraps of cloth, vials of blood and locks of hair preserved as relics of saints collected in massive cathedrals, bits of the one true cross floating about all over Europe that if linked together would form a plank 100 feet tall, images of a rather suburban, blow-dried, white Jesus hung on our walls as a respresentation of the 'true' picture of what a 1st century hard travelling Jewish rabbi looked like, an image of an old man sitting brooding in a chair is the loving 'God', we even name our greatest holiday- Easter- after an Anglo Saxon pagen goddess and then condemn the same pagens as damned--- give it a bit of thought. It just happens that I noticed it this week with stonings and living rocks.

My mind is really wandering... be glad I'm not your guest preacher this week (written intended to be wry, a touch mind-bending and humorous). I'm just clearing out the mind clutter before I get to work...

TB in MN

My apologies to those I offend. Forgive me.


Date: 24 Apr 2002
Time: 15:27:55

Comments

TB in MN... while I share some of your dismay about the weird choices sometimes made by the "Lectionary gods" (and, yes, this combination can seem a bit maccabre), I think one can make a pretty good homiletic/exegetical point here about the impotence of non-living stones (either the "real" ones thrown at Stephen or the "metaphorical" ones doing the throwing) and the power of "living stones" like Stephen who, though he died, became part of that foundation of faith which conquered, continues to conquer and will eventually fully prevail over "the world, the flesh and the devil."

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 24 Apr 2002
Time: 18:51:36

Comments

This is my first contribution, though I've made liberal use of this resource for some time and enjoy the conversation. My title is "Under Construction". There seems to be an active sense since it is an exhortation that meets all of us wherever we may be in our grow in Christ and community. It fits our context since we are undergoing undergoing a church building renovation -how much more important to be continually built into a spiritual house. Chuck in WI


Date: 25 Apr 2002
Time: 10:04:09

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TB in MN It is more than a little disturbing. "Saul" was a very active, faithful participant in his "church" and here he is holding the coats of those using stones to kill because they disagree with this new vission of God - present in our midst through the Christ. The question rises - whose "cornerston, foundational stone is "correct - right - true" and wht do we do when we disagree with someone elses approach to faith and God? Stone each other? I was planning on preaching on "living stones or Dead wood" - living stones being those who seek and cooperate with God's living Spirit working in their lives that are transformed and sent out to serve as compared to dead wood. Those who come to church, hear the word, thank the preach for the sermon and go home and on about their lives as if nothing had happened. Those who do not even try to engage God - those upon whom the word does not bring them more fully alive!! Now I am not sure - this stoning connection has me pondering. jmj in WI - soon to be in Montanna


Date: 25 Apr 2002
Time: 10:09:24

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off the subject To Phil in Montana Where in Montana? I am being appointed there in June. my email here is umc@hurlecomputers.com jmj


Date: 25 Apr 2002
Time: 10:12:51

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TB in MN, scripture is full of these kinds of reversals, taking things associated with death and bringing life to them. Skandalon is a rich Greek word that is translated stumbling block. It refers to a trap that is attractive yet locks us in when caught. It is used both in a positive way (that Jesus is a scandal) and a negative way (scandalizing little ones). In the positive sense, it refers to the potential trap we should avoid. If we hang on to our carnality, exposure to Jesus can drive us further down that path if we don't let go of it. Saul/Paul is a good example when he sought to persecute Christians.

I understand baptism to be a sign of death, not just to the "old man", but also to the openness to martyrdom that was in last week's lectionary passage in 1 Peter.

Rocks are foundations, objects to throw and things over which we stumble. Religion, seeking to please an external god, can be a foundation for true life, an object used to kill others, and something that makes us fall flat on our noses. I thank the lectionary "gods" for their wisdom in bringing these passages together.

SheepDog in MI


Date: 25 Apr 2002
Time: 11:58:58

Comments

How about if we look at Jesus as a "living stone" who enables the rocks life hurls at us intended to destroy us as the Easter/victory message giving us the courage to not let our hearts be troubled. As such we have life anew and living as a strong foundation for the church. Without the pain (Eric's non-living stones, perhaps?) of life, we wouldn't have a cause to exercise our faith. Thus, maybe converting (?) non-living stones into living stones.

I have an evil urge to call mine, "Living Stone, I Presume?" but I won't ...

Sally in GA


Date: 25 Apr 2002
Time: 13:22:23

Comments

Sally wrote, "Without the pain (Eric's non-living stones, perhaps?) of life, we wouldn't have a cause to exercise our faith."

Mmmmm.... don't know that I can go with that Sally.

Leslie Weatherhead had something to say about that. He wrote in "The Will of God" as follows:

"[Someone] might say, 'Look how the war brought courage to men and women.' ... [L]et me amke some reply ... The war did not _make_ courage. It revealed the courage that was there all the time. It gave it a tremendous opportunity for self-expression. Evil is never creative of good, though the circumstances of evil have been an occasion for the expression of good. *** I repeat that evil does not _make_ good qualities. It _reveals_ them and gives them exercise, but there is always the possibility -- and surely this is God's intention -- that those same qualities may be revealed and exercised and manifested as a response to goodness."

In other words, pain is not a necessary condition for the exercise of faith.

I think I agree with Weatherhead. Pain may be an occasion for the expression and exercise of faith, but not a necessary pre-condition for it.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 25 Apr 2002
Time: 19:11:33

Comments

Thanks to all of you already! I have had two deaths in the church this week, and what was to be the first relaxing week after several hectic ones turned out otherwise.

My early thought on this connected with Jesus as the corner stone. We are in the process of building a sanctuary and I watched them lay the boards and string in order to be certain their concrete lines were straight. I also watched my husband once lay a new tile floor for us, making very certain to lay straight edges. I read somewhere the corner stone had the same effect. The other stones were to be in line with the corner stone so that the building is sturdy and dependable. If we are out of line with Christ then our "building " will fall down. I'm thinking about experiementing with the children's cardboard bricks from the nursery.

Another thought I had related to one of the men who died who has had a debilitating disease for some 10 years now. In Corinthians Paul talks of us groaning in this earthly tent, before we get a building not made with hands, a spiritual dwelling. Our lives become those dwelling places of God.

We also use this passage when we have baby dedications. I love how it reminds us that we are so much more than who we might settle for on our own!

May God speak through us all! Rachel, still in TN & MS.


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 02:32:46

Comments

As a father of three children - 3, 2, 5 months, this passage hit me with full force. . .'long for the pure, spiritual milk. The wail of a hungry baby cannot be ignored by a mother or father. My wife tells me that that wail causes a sensation in her breasts as the milk begins to flow. A hungry baby is a frantic baby and will only be silenced when fed. Do I long for the word of God like that?

I'm also struck by the message of belonging that is here. Isolation, rejection, and loneliness is challenged by a society/community called the church - where everyone has a place - where all belong and are valued. I'm reminded of the line from the 'Cheers' theme song. . .a place 'where everybody knows your name.' Every blessing from a Canadian in Scotland.


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 02:34:35

Comments

As a father of three children - 3, 2, 5 months, this passage hit me with full force. . .'long for the pure, spiritual milk. The wail of a hungry baby cannot be ignored by a mother or father. My wife tells me that that wail causes a sensation in her breasts as the milk begins to flow. A hungry baby is a frantic baby and will only be silenced when fed. Do I long for the word of God like that?

I'm also struck by the message of belonging that is here. Isolation, rejection, and loneliness is challenged by a society/community called the church - where everyone has a place - where all belong and are valued. I'm reminded of the line from the 'Cheers' theme song. . .a place 'where everybody knows your name.' Every blessing from a Canadian in Scotland.


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 06:19:06

Comments

to MR in NY, One Heritage Sunday the youth in my church painted rocks gold, drew our church logo on them and presented them to those who had been members over 50 years as a thank-you for being Living Rocks in their lives. It gave a sense of unity between all ages in their mission to be the church growing upon the solid rock of Jesus Christ. I'm going to use "magic rocks" in my children's time to talk about how God does wonderful things with lives that are like pebbles when they are continually in the waters of their baptism. They join together and grow into something beautiful. Who ever thought that a rock could grow? Fisherfolk in OH


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 06:20:58

Comments

p.s. A living growing rock? Sounds like resurrection! fisherfolk in OH


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 12:27:35

Comments

I must be the most inarticulate preacher ever ...

Pain is not requisite for the exercise of faith. I didn't say that - or at least I didn't mean to. However, just like if our weather was always sunny, we wouldn't appreciate it, having known no rain. Likewise, how do we test the limits of our faith without something challenging it (and I thought we'd been talking about pain)? Is pain necessary for faith?

I lived with my folks for 2 years in their retirement home - with a beautiful (and I mean *beautiful*) view of a lake - mountains in hte distance, sunsets like you've never seen. There were days when I don't even think I noticed the view. You get used to it. Likewise, faith (or Jesus' living-stone-ness - how's that for a word) also can be taken for granted. And I've never personally experience a test of faith that WASN'T painful in some way.

So, I'm not as smart as I ought to be ... I still thank God and praise Jesus that I have life in him.

Sally in GA


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 12:31:50

Comments

I'm also incorporating the heritage Sunday theme, and I'm going to hand out rocks to the congregants. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on one's position), there aren't that many congregants each Sunday. My theme: "the church and its individuals in trial."

Sally in GA


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 18:48:01

Comments

Dennis thank you for your thoughts. I come from an area that has many stone walls- they look put together haphazardly, but indeed they were not. the rocks are all different sizes and shapes but each (even the hidden ones) are valuable and necessary. it is indeed a master builder that builds a wall that stands the test of time. then there are walls that mark boundaries, offer shelter for creatures, places for kids to sit on a summer day and read. just some thoughts


Date: 26 Apr 2002
Time: 19:03:17

Comments

Sorry all I hit the submit button and then remembered something else. I thought about the significance of a keystone in the arch- keeping it together and the cornerstone keeping things straight. Having a time thinking of a childrens sermon/object lesson.

peace...kathi


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 07:11:00

Comments

I'm connecting this passage to the gospel lesson... that even for those who have heard about Jesus, have grown up in the Christian religion, he can be a great stumbling stone. There are many reasons to reject Jesus... that fact that he was a man is hard for some men who are driven to compete, and hard for some women who have trouble with men, for whatever reason. The fact that he was a particular person who lived at a particular time (long ago) is hard for many people, especially young people. Some people may reject Jesus because of the kind of life he calls us to lead, a life of honesty and giving. Besides that, it's hard to make someone else the cornerstone of our building, or even to admit that our one stone is not a building sufficient unto itself. And even if we're willing to be part of a larger building, we may want to be the cornerstone ourselves, not someone else. In a way, we want to stay in the infant state, centered on our own needs and demanding nurture from others. It's only when we grow up to maturity that we can be part of a whole, and give to others.

But I think the major reason people stumble over Jesus is the fact that he himself was rejected. People want so much to be accepted by others. But will they like us if we embrace someone who was/is rejected? Can we choose a way that others have rejected, that is not considered "successful" in the eyes of the world? Will Jesus be to us a stone of stumbling, or precious in our sight?

DGinNYC


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 08:13:26

Comments

kathi, wish it wasn't so late... what is a keystone? thanks for your entry.

rachel


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 08:14:48

Comments

i titled my non existant (so far) sermon "People of the Rock" after seeing The Scorpion King, had me realizing there are different kinds of rocks we can build our lives on.

blessings, rachel


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 08:40:28

Comments

I'd always thought of "cornerstone" as a dated stone set into the wall, or perhaps a stone with a hollow space for keeping historical documents and relics. That's nice, but it's really just decorative, and not significant enough to be worthy of Jesus.

Now a colleague tells me that in this area of rural PA, small churches were often built by parishioners after stonemasons had laid the stones at the corners. Pillars at the corners support the roof, and need to be strong and square. Once experts have built them, ordinary people who are handy with tools can set the stones in-between. Christ is the cornerstone, and we're the stones - it works, doesn't it? Marjorie in Central PA


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 12:15:05

Comments

rachel,

A 'keystone' is the essential single stone in the support structure of a bridge that, if removed, would cause a bridge to fall. Imagine an arch made up of stones. The top-most stone becomes the one stone which allows the structure to stand. Remove it and the two sides collapse inward and fall. Keystone bridges were very popular at one time as they can bear a fairly heavy load and usually could be made out of local materials.tb in mn


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 13:15:22

Comments

Hey all ... thanks for your help with my sermon this week. I have posted a link to it in the Gospel discussion.

Blessings, Eric in KS


Date: 27 Apr 2002
Time: 20:41:49

Comments

keystone, capstone, tombstone, cornerstone round, flat, stepping, skipping,

rocks are differenet than stones?

dra